presidents fail and how they can succeed again" then we will look at vice president mike pence and his role in the incoming administration. we will >> today donald trump is expected to announce his election of exxon mobil chief executive office, rex tillerson, for secretary of state. it is an appointment that democrats are ready forcing concern about. it comes a day after republicans and congress say they supported investigations into reports of russian cyber attacks. we begin our program by asking our viewers how d think the incoming administration should approach russia? do you think they should work for closer ties or should

america try to further isolate the government of vladimir putin? the lines are open this morning. you can catch up with us on social media. a very good tuesday morning to you. russia in the headlines of today's newspapers. here is a front-page of the "financial times" with their headlines. to the front page of the "washington post."

to the front page of "usa today." congressional leaders said monday that two committees will investigate cia allegations that russia deployed hackers to disrupt the american presidential election to help donald trump. mitch mcconnell said the senate intelligence committee will conduct bipartisan reviews. here is a bit from what mitch mcconnell had to say at a press conference yesterday. >> any foreign breach of our cyber security measures is disturbing. i strongly condemn any such efforts. the director of the national intelligence released a statement saying the russian government directed the recent compromise of emails from u.s. persons and institutions, including from u.s. political organizations. that is what the intelligence

community believes and can be said and unclassified remarks without risking sources. anything else is irresponsible, likely illegal and potential he for partisan political gain. the obama administration attempted to reset relations with russia and the setback while russia expanded its sphere of influence, intervened and crimea, syria and attempted to bully the baltic countries. it defies belief that somehow republicans in the senate are reluctant to either review russian tactics or ignore them. let me say that i have the highest confidence in the intelligence community and the central intelligence agency's -- agencies. the most of high-profile targets of the

cyber attacks before the election was hillary clinton's chief political strategist, john podesta. he was quoted in an article day ofay saying, "each that month, our campaign decried interference of russia." donald trump with a few tweets yesterday in response to some of the news stories as allegations that have come out yesterday morning.

donald trump yesterday. we want to hear from our viewers "the washington "the washington journal." how do you think the incoming administration should approach russia? will take you through a few more headlines and editorials and up beds that have been written about this subject, about the hacking, rex tillerson . we want to hear from new york. good morning. caller: good morning to you. i don't want to talk about hacking now. -- because russia russia is not a democracy. that is the dead wrong. russia [indiscernible] sometimes breaks the law, takes somebody's land.

we understand that but the ocean we have [indiscernible] we did not go to war with china. china is not a democracy. we shouldn't buy the idea that russia is not a democracy and is not going to be an ally. we have countries like saudi arabia, china, we are working with them. --t: caller: look at the middle east. are we really understand we should not go to war in iraq, believe it or not. in the middle east, in syria, we lost the war. how are we going to save the rest and aleppo? we have to talk to russia to save life. that is what matters for us now. accusing russia, even saying

that putin is a puppet, all of this nonsense is not going to help our country. the big problem is islamic to fight islamic radicalism without russia is not possible. russia has experience. we know they are not a democracy. we are not fighting for democracy. aen this country, this is democratic country and we know how we treat each other. host: frank, republican in west virginia. good morning. caller: i believe trump has a lot of rebuilding to do. barack obama has lowered our standards in the world to where we are a laughingstock. when we draw our land -- our redline, we need to stand by. on the way we can do that is from a position of strength. barack obama has decimated the military. back in the 1990's, bill clinton

decimated human intelligence. all of that is going to have to be rebuilt. i think donald trump can do it. i think he recognizes it needs to be done. host: let's go to wilson, houston, texas. caller: good morning. i feel like what all the other past and present resident has should feel like trump keep it up, because we all know how russia is toward the country of america. trump say he wants to be tough and strong. he should show us that is what he is going to do, because putin is going to wag him on like a dog and do whatever he wants. with him having all these other ones he is bring in with him that10, that is laying into

russia's hands. host: you are talking about his appointments? isse that donald trump nominating and russia? caller: i believe donald is going to play right into putin hands. these are friends that could new way before donald trump. they are not going to just forget their friendship with putin. he bring in all these other people. no, he is going to disappoint all of his supporters. they are going to turn on him. donald is not going to stay in there for full-term. i already know that. that man is 70 years old. he is not going to give all of that up for our country. texas.ouston, the headline from the "new york times."

>> tillerson has fought for years to strengthen connections through business negotiations worth billions of dollars with that in mind, we are asking , how should the trump administration approach russia? what do you think the relationship should be like? david, missouri. good morning. caller: yeah, this is ridiculous. we have had the democrats, they and notg to ridicule

cause trouble for our new president all they can, because they are upset they lost. all the dealings they have been doing with russia is ridiculous, man. people none of chumps have made -- none of trump's people have made deals to sell uranium like clinton did. all of that is ok. the hypocrisy of this people -- these people. now that he is picking people who knows how to deal with russia and knows what to do, that is a horrible thing, but the left, they don't care. they are going to delegitimize us and our new president all they can, because all they care about is they got beat and they are grabbing at straws. host: you might be interested in reading the column in the

"washington times." he writes you want to read his column again in the "lessons in times." -- washington times." mike is next from crofton, maryland. mike, are you with us yet go stay by your phone. let's go to connie in chicago. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i have a short comment that i get so tired of hearing republicans and others calling .n to bash president obama if my memory serves me correct, he came in to office with some very bad negatives that george w. bush had left this country. also i understand that russia is one of our biggest adversaries. for a person of donald trump's ilk, someone who has no governing experience, he has chosen a man as secretary of state with no governing experience. with extremely very personal close ties to putin who is our adversary. that is troubling. also, george w. bush junior, he was the one that left this country as a laughingstock of

the world. from what i also recall, he was i don't recall that happening to president obama. host: how do you think president obama did in dealing with russia? caller: i think obama, his diplomacy was very well placed. measuredegy of using at most important times, they worked well. host: it worked specifically when it comes to russia? putin, well, you know, it was very clear to me that putin did not like president obama. think he did everything that he could, not to just give obama

a hard time but to try and prove know whats -- i don't to say about that guy -- to prove that he was "a better leader." that to me deserves debate. let's go to annapolis, maryland. caller: good morning. my comment is, i would like to know if the other colors understand that i don't think putin is going to be around for a long time. if we can lay some foundation work for some economic partnership with the country, we should try and make that establishment. host: do you think rex tillerson is a part of doing that? caller: it goes to show that the strength of his character, resume is the right person for the right job at this point to make sure we can reach our handover and move forward with what i would consider the

inevitable. host: union is in north carolina -- in is an airliner. how should the trump administration approach russia? caller: i think trump is on the right track. if everyone remembers from the 2012 election, mitt romney said that russia was one of our biggest adversaries and president obama made fun of the fact. we need someone in their -- and there. keep your friends close and enemies closer. i think the same thing with governor branstad stat of iowa. he knows the chinese. i think we need people in there who understands those countries. they will not give president-elect trump.

they are going to try and do everything they can because they are sore losers. hillary clinton would not have done anything like this. i think mr. trump is on the right track. i am proud that he is our upcoming president, because president obama is weak. he is a wimp. it is about time we had someone in there who knows what they are doing. host: a few comments from our twitter feed. you can follow along. several folks that comment everyday on what is happening on this program. we appreciate that.

talking about the electors, the "wall street journal" and of story about the concerns about russia. -- note that john podesta saying that her

campaign supports the electors efforts to disclose more findings. that is from the "wall street journal" this morning. we want to hear your thoughts about how the incoming trump administration should approach russia and the governor -- the government of vladimir putin? good morning, raymond. caller: good morning. . am a design engineer i had a contract going in seattle. were 10 people all around the world, engineers. exactly what was going on. we were talking. they all said, watch the russians. i did not know what they were talking about.

[indiscernible] i read another contract in , and everything they , the russians will do a number on you. and they did. host: what is your advice to the trump administration? caller: watch them. they will screw you to death. they deal with sympathy and then they will turn on you. there.ppened when i was i. further -- i feel sorry for the russians and i said why don't you do this? people in the shop, i felt [indiscernible]

he turned around and screwed me. [laughter] watch them. very devious. host: liska to tom, idaho. good morning -- let's go to tom, idaho. good morning. caller: i hope the administration approaches russia with the america first attitude that he is -- that he said he would. he is very understanding of the fact that russia is out for russian interest. they are a competitor. they are not a friend. it doesn't mean we have to treat them differently than we do any other enemy that we have, like china or saudi arabia. all the stuff we are hearing from the media about trump and russia is just propaganda. russia is being singled out by the globalist on the left who

were really sure they were about the have -- about to have the global government. pinthey are trying to donald trump's success on them instead of looking themselves in the mirror and realize they nominated a ridiculously bad candidate who ran a bad campaign. out,mail scandal that came they were more concerned about the russians hacked us instead of dealing with what was said in the emails. the truth is just a smokescreen could mr. trump, please visit america first. host: the headline on the front page of the "austin post -- of the "washington post." he is expected to be nominated today by donald trump for the secretary of state post

yesterday, senator chuck schumer talked about whether rex tillerson was a good nominee for the position, the concerns that democrats have in congress and what the on the -- in what the nomination fight would look like. >> the bottom line is everyone of these nominees needs a thorough hearing. the one thing we will insist on as a democrat is in that it not be a quick five minute speech in one day. we are going to want thorough questions. all of these allegations and talks about his closeness with putin will come forward. i can say this as a future beority leader, this has to a thorough -- we are not going to stand for a quick, you just asked a question and he leaves. >> there will be some follow-ups? >> lots. host: we want to hear from you this morning on your thoughts on

how a trump administration should approach russia. scott in san diego. caller: good morning. on some level, i am a democrat, but on some level, i am an american. i almost feel sorry for donald trump. not unlike a circus peanut. i take them about that seriously . he doesn't seem to have any grasp our knowledge regarding history. what he is not aware of his leading up to the downfall of the former soviet union, reagan and george h w bush basically through their defense spending and military buildup, really spent the russians into the poor house to the point where they could not keep up, and then eventually fell. 25 years have passed.

the former soviet union has a lot of business in the industry and international deals. it is not the same soviet union or russia that reagan and h w bush were dealing with. unless trump wants to do some massive deficit spending to soviets, i don't soviets, i dow what he is going to do. host: you think outspending the soviets militarily can work in today's world? in today's economy that is so interconnected? caller: they are not the same country they were 25 years ago. communism, their interactions economically with the rest of the free world. they dealt with china and cuba.

of the global situation today, economically, and in terms of business and industry and deals, it is a different world for them than it was 25 years ago. host: does that make the same approach used by reagan and george a w -- george h.w. bush, can you re-create that? it would be harder for us to outspend them, because we are not the country a were back then. -- country we were back then. he is going into it blind because he doesn't seem to have a grasp of history and things like that. hopefully his advisers will. then again, you don't know what this guy host:. -- guide. host: let's go to larry in

indiana. caller: my comment is mr. trump, you know, everybody wants to tear him down and not give him a chance. that he leadsy our country back to our god and about how we are going to be an influence in the world. i hope and pray that everybody will give them a chance. how he deals with these countries should be drawing us closer back to god. thank you very much. p it'sarry in indiana speaking of indiana, we are going to be focusing on the governor of indiana, mike pence, for half of our program today looking at his role in the trump administration and we will take your comments about the role you think you would want mike pence to play in the coming four years

of the trumpet ministrations and also today, the 31st century centuryt -- the 21st cures act takes place at the white house. we will be showing that on c-span and c-span.org. today. happening at 2:35 also later this afternoon at 6:00 p.m., jeh johnson, the secretary of homeland security will be talking with washington post columnist, david ignatius in an interview by the newspaper. we show that live at 6:00 p.m. on c-span. back to your calls and about 50 more minutes asking you about how the trump administration should approach russia? caller: good morning. that i am what to say

would not cyclical late just yet -- not sit the kool-aid just yet about how he is going to handle russia. putin is going to look out for russia's interests first as trump says, make america great again. part he is not listing to. that is what scares me about this whole deal is that he is appointing people, and he has very little knowledge as far as the intelligence briefings because he skipped them. if you are going to make a decision on dealing with other countries, you want to have your security briefings and information. it doesn't have anything to do with things smart. i would not drink the kool-aid

just yet. i want to take the high road with this guy that he is making it really hard. that is my comment. host: got it. thanks for the call it's speaking of the information that we have. the only proof that anyone offers of russia manipulation is a statement by the cia. usa today delves into this topic little more about what we know and what we don't know. format inin the q&a usa today notes the questions about the ultimate goal

they go on to delve into those assessments. one of the questions they take on is on what points of the new russian assessment did the cia and other intelligence authorities differ, when it comes to the fbi? the fbi does not dispute the accurate, could be but the difference lies in the institutional standards that the agencies require in reaching such conclusions.

if you want to go into more of those questions about what we do and don't know at this point of the intelligence that is behind a lot of the stories that we are seeing today, that is in "usa today." florida, democrat. good morning. caller: i would like to say that most of people around here are trump drunk. we are on the verge of fighting iran and russia sells their weapons to iran. their weaponsof from russia which are better weapons than we have. anybody wants to holler about trump, trump, trump. what about when we get ready to go to war and russia selling all their weapons to iran?

aboutyou are concerned war with iran? caller: yes. we stop talking about them because we talk trump lately. everything is still going on with iran and they are getting all of their weapons from russia. even the money we gave back to russia -- to iran, they are taking their money in buying weapons. everybody want to fall in love with russia. host: do you think there trump administration recognizes this threat? caller: he don't even want to recognize the cia, how can he recognized that? they are the ones who do all the research? he brushed them off like they hate nothing. host: let's go to joe in florida. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. i want to comment on the present situation. it is politics. election and it is all good, because i did not vote for him, but those who voted for them, that is their choice. we have to learn to stand. where at a different time. -- we are at a different time. if it but your hand once, it will bite your hand again. these people jumping on the bandwagon, and so happy in jubilant about what they don't know and cannot see. watch out what you ask for. somebody -- sometimes god will allow you to have which you ask for. it is a christian nation, it always has been. until we realize how important our task is to each other, and understand that it takes all of

us. we will see a real blessing in this country. hopefully he will do the right thing, put people who can do the things that are necessary that will get this nation to see that we are a leader, not because we are big and bad, but because god allow us to be. host: steve, louisiana. go ahead. caller: yes, how are you doing? i am not a hillary clinton supporter, because i don't like her. she depressed me. she a liar. she cause a lot of problems in the middle east. is the white people in this country [indiscernible] i have been here for 45 years. russia will brainwash these

situation in aa way that donald trump comes in. ,t is a shame that donald trump that he thinks he is so smart but he is not. [indiscernible] he is not that smart. [indiscernible] andsed their weaknesses they went and voted for them -- for him. host: for rob in new york. caller: thank you for c-span. i believe the president reject donald trump is a dirty traitor. republicans are lining up behind him in a fashion that makes them all traders and they will be accountable to the rest of the american public for the rest of this generation. i cannot believe that the party

of ronald reagan, the party that claims to be the party that ended the cold war is now going to be in cahoots and in bed with the russian government. putin, a dictator. this is the on the pale. i cannot believe it is happening . it is like we have stepped through the looking glass. host: the washington post editorial board has this on their board today.

that is the editorial in today's "washington post." c-span.thanks for i think we need to work with these countries, but we need to work with these countries, but it is getting to the point where we give away too much across the board. think c-span mentioned about obama. i don't think most people know this. he just to be towed a major where we are going to give a loan supposedly iran, $80 billion to our import and export bank which is taxpayer-funded to buy planes from boeing. if i hadn't watched c-span, i would not know this.

this is something that is happening right now. the house of representatives voted to stop it, but obama just to be towed it. we are going to lend $80 billion to iran to buy airplanes after at their track record. i think our politicians need to get a grip. lending this kind of money and doing these kind of things for these terrible governments. it is ridiculous. that is all i want to say. host: baton rouge, louisiana. go ahead. caller: good morning. it is amazing. why would putin want donald trump as resident? -- as president? the reason being it took ronald destroy the to free hundredsnd

of millions of slaves to communism. it took hillary clinton about six weeks to press the reset button and start the soviet union over again. back.viet union is was a kgb agent and still is. -- once kgb, always kgb. host: a few more tweets. trump tweeted out his responses yesterday. a few treats making -- a few

tweets making news yesterday. -- post"ington note story announcing that he would hand over control of his businesses before his and hydration and vows that companies would not make any new deals while he is in office. back with this -- with just a few more calls. how do you think the incoming administration should approach russia? jim is in west virginia.

go ahead. caller: first i would like to say that mr. obama is the greatest president we ever had. i think the trump administration , we are going to be in a war by april. i think that russia played a big part in that, and getting donald trump elected, because donald trump is not a good this is man. -- a good businessman. these people have just destroyed the country literally by electing this guy. we would have been better off if we could've elected a ham sandwich. thanks. host: in michigan, tom is waiting. go ahead. caller: how are you doing today? host: doing well. go ahead. caller: i am going to be short. it is 2016.

it is a new era. who knows how russia is going to be when trump elect goes there. i know i have been reading for a while. ,t putin does not like obama never did. obama is the worst president because -- i live in michigan. he let off 60,000 criminals, pardoned them. i do not like that. in michigan, host: are you talking about commuting sentences? caller: obama's? host: you're talking about him committing sins is? caller: his attitude toward putin. i have been watching a lot of .ideo, a lot of things on putin

obama does whatever he wants. plain and simple. host: let's look ahead. what do you want to see as the u.s. relationship with russia in the years to come? caller: i would like to see trump -- i see trump is a businessman. he is not going to walk into russia like a bobblehead. i think he is want to walk in as a is this man -- as a is this man. wrong, i am not -- i think that we will never know between them how they are going to be. so looking forward ahead, and they are sitting

there getting all crazy. look at the riots when hillary lost. caller.m, our last coming up next on washington journal, will talk to elaine kamarck of the brookings institution. she will talk about her recent fail andy presidents how they can succeed again." we will take a dive into mike pence's career. to top reporters who have covered him. alberta and tony cook, that is coming up on "washington journal." ♪ >> abigail fillmore was the first first lady to work outside of the home.

she taught at a private school. maybe eisenhower's hairstyle and love of ink made fashion sensations. maybe pink was sold. jacqueline kennedy was responsible for the creation of the white house historical association. nancy reagan as a young actress of her name on the blacklist suspected communist sympathizers in the late 1940's. she appealed to screen actors guild head, ronald reagan, for help. she later became his wife. the stories are featured in "first lady's." the book makes a great gift for the holidays giving readers a look into the lives of every first later -- first lady. stories of fascinating women and how their legacies resonate. share the stories for the holidays. "first ladies" and paperback --

in paperback. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought you today i your cable or satellite provider. >> washington journal continues. alain kamarck is back at our desk. our topic is white presidents fail which is the title -- topic is why presidents fail which is the title of your book. what leads to successful presidencies. in your book you layout three -- three thanks that a successful president need to balance. guest: a successful president like a leader in any organization needs to get the policy right, needs to be able

to communicate the policy and needs to be able to implement the policy. those three things should be in balance because it is wonderful to have a good policy, but if it never happens, or as it happens, it gets all messed up, no good. host: modern presidents tend to lose that balance at what part of that gets out of balance? guest: i drew three circles twice. the verse one has been in balance. the second one has policy as a small circle and implementation as a small circle and communication taking over everything. modern presidents get to the presidency by talking a lot and then when they get to the white house, they keep talking and speechifying. now with the trump tweeting. there is constant machines.

what happens is this pushes out the need for making sure that what you say is what you do. the problem comes because once you say isn't what you do or doesn't happen and blows up on you, modern presidents have discovered they cannot talk their way out of the mess. host: examples where this obsession with communication, where it has led to failure? guest: there are so many. democratic ones in republican once. -- ones and republican ones. one of the big ones for george bush was the failure to react in a timely manner and effectively after hurricane katrina. there was nothing that george say or his campaign could that could erase the image of those people in the superdome in

new orleans. this was a massive government failure and massive government failures are massive presidential failures. moving on to a democratic president. there was nothing president obama who is quite eloquent could say to the people who were trying to get health insurance back in october of 2013 at the website that kept crashing. when there is a big governmental failure, the president cannot talk his way out of it. that is why they need to pay more attention to implementation and less time talking. host: we are talking with elaine kamarck. why presidents fail, that is our topic. the lines are open if you want to talk about these failures. her recommendations to avoid those failures, we'll get into those.

let's talk about our resident elect going to a transition -- our president-elect going through a transition process. how modern presidents have tended to deal with transitions. you rank -- every transition is soaked in hubris. they think they can impose their priorities on the world and the world rarely cooperates. bubblingf that problem up during the transition? guest: the first way is they bubble up with appointments. the appointments -- almost every transition makes it a point that either they have to pull back over doesn't make it through the conservation process and they have to replace that person. it is a lot of appointment problems.

that, we are going to see. rex tillerson looks like he is going to be appointed secretary of state. he has got some confirmation problems in congress. let's see if he makes it through. donald trump is appointing people he knows, people he knows are extremely rich. it doesn't look there is an elaborate vetting process going on. usuallying process delves into people's backgrounds, their finances and taxes to make sure they paid all the taxes they were supposed to pay, to make sure their business dealings are on the up and up. who knows what is going to come out? that is a frequent, with presidential transitions -- that is a frequent problem with presidential transitions. host: what is your advice to avoid those early failures? guest: it gets worse when a

president comes out of nowhere like trump, because he doesn't have the depth in his party of relationships, so he doesn't know that people generally no about policy as if they served in the senate. most president elects, needs a vetting team that is on the ball. we don't see too much evidence of that. how much they are vetting will come out, because when these people going front of the senate, believe me, the senate will put them through their paces. host: elaine kamarck is our guest. she is also the governance studies senior fellow at the brookings institution and founding director of the center for effective public management with us for 45 minutes. phone lines are open.

we will start with glenn and illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. i am wondering about how many democrats -- presidents have lied like this one we got going now? is a thingw if it that you do when you are running ? host: a question going back to your concern about communication. guest: there is a tendency for presidents to exaggerate things, look for a great line in a speech, etc. outright lying is fairly unusual , unusual for the vulcans and democrats -- four republicans and democrats.

president trump seems to have a problem with this. what is being said around odd.ngton is this kind of trump supporters are saying, well, only his opponents taken literally. everybody else takes him kind of figuratively and metaphorically. that is kind of odd, because when you are president, your words matter. your words matter in foreign affairs and in international relations where they get translated, where other countries in recent -- other countries act in response to what they think the president is doing. it is a little nervous making. host: in your book, some of the blame comes from the nomination process that we have today for our president. guest: you bet. we used to nominate presidents

the way the rest of the world nominates their leaders, enclosed party convention. that seems very undemocratic except that what was going on here was the party leaders and followers were controlling who had their brand, so to speak. when we opened up -- and only the united states have done this -- the system to primaries, parties lost control over who the nominee was. it became this free-for-all. it was not until this election that someone got nominated who had no deep roots in the republican party. in fact, what used to happen in the old system for all of this downsides, was that you had an element of what the political scientists call "peer review.

other people who knew this person and new things about them was -- them -- was here she capable echo did he or she have money problems? they knew things that the voters are likely not to know. that peer-reviewed gave us some ok presidents. we don't have it anymore. host: this is an argument to give more power back to the party elite. guest: yep. there was talk, everybody was complaining about the democratic superdelegates. on the republican side, they were wishing they had more superdelegates. this something both political parties are going to have to grapple with because this system can yield people who a lot of people wonder if they are qualified. democrat, good

morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me ok? i have a couple of things to say. that lady talked about the bank that lent russia money, the bank doesn't lend iran money for the boeings. she was way off on that. to the point that we are talking media,s -- i blame the and i know everybody says that. this guy did not get cleared. his sons were bragging -- i am talking about child -- bragging that the russians were pouring money into the trump enterprise. that is big news, especially what he is doing. it is clear to me, how did he get in there without showing his

taxes and knowing what is companies are doing? russians ownnd trump. it is no big secret. everybody is eating at the straw because they want their big tax cut. guest: i think that you are right that the media could be more, you know, sincere in its investigation. the fact of the matter is the media has a hard time doing this, that what used to happen was people, the party process of nomination was controlled by people who knew the players. it was one of the reasons it disintegrated -- it it was hard to get new players and their. the virtue of it which you see with our neighbors in canada and great britain is the people who come in to lead the parties and the government tend to be well

that it. they are well vetted by the press and people who know who they are, what their business dealings are. this season went surprise and consternation to the republican party and they were worried about this guy. host: the capability of the media to vet candidates getting better or worse? guest: i think it is getting worse. the reason is the media is under a lot of pressure to get eyeballs and viewers, so if you aww, donald trump is tweeting about miss america or miss universe pageant and everyone runs over there, it is easy to distract the media. trump is good at distracting the media, particularly when they

start doing complicated and sort of boring things like what his business dealings are in the world host:. south carolina, jesse a republican, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. .aller: i am a veteran i have had some major issues in columbia. i was doing fine but because of incompetence, just not doing the right thing, i lost money. i think that is another reason why presidents fail. they don't pick the right people to look over these things. 8.5 months for an exam, an acceptable i waited for months in 2011. since this has taken place, i have lost money. i will not get into who is involved but i had the director hank up on me at the columbia v.a.

that is wrong because they make mistakes and they don't want to fix them. , case been to the ip management, they did not do nothing. i have had senators, congressmen not doing anything for me. i even went as far as the one over here, this v.a. system in the cannot get the results there. host: the v.a. system being touched on. guest: i talk about the ba system in the book and -- v.a. system in the book in one of president obama's failures. it was no secret the administration had serious problems doing what it was supposed to do. nor was it a secret that they were cooking the books, so to speak, to make it look like they were treating people like our caller in a timely manner, when they were not. it is one of the things that

talk about in the book, which is presidents getting so far removed from the government that they run so that when the v.a. scandal broke into the news because of a veteran who actually died for lack of care, the obama white house acted like it was a surprise. they were surprised you the whole thing. that should never have happened. the president should not be surprised. the president should be able to anticipate what is going on in their government and fix it. host: one paragraph from a book that sticks out -- most of the people the president sees every day will be the same people he solid when he was campaigning. the people the president doesn't really know are the 4 million or so people who work with him in the executive branch and the military. a new president is where intellectually that they are there, but few go out to walk the halls of the federal office buildings and washington, d.c. who was the last president you think did that? was good at being hands-on and

knowing what was happening in the hallways? guest: not many. [laughter] this isit is particularly modern problem .ecause our government is now -- government is now run by 800 [indiscernible] at any given point in time in an organization that they, something is going very right and something is going very wrong. presidential failure tends to happen in two directions. first, as in the example of the failed to ronnie and rescue mission with president jimmy carter, when something is going wrong, it is because the president doesn't see and what isnd the level of

happening in the government. they fail to see what the government knows and learn what they should be learning from the government. we saw that time in and time again in the bush administration, particularly with their intervention in iraq. ways, either they do not see the problem that blow up in the face or they don't take the good and the smart stuff that is in the government and use it in their policymaking. host: the book again is "why presidents fail: and how they thatucceed again," a book "one washington post -- that one ryder said hest" wishes president-elect trump would read. michael is in alabama, democrat. go ahead. caller: good morning. it has been months since i was able to talk on c-span. in-depthe been several

surveys. these are the two main concerns are have of any president and you hit it. this wonderful journalist or historian hinted at one of orse, the cabinet members partisan or even more partisan of that president. i see most residents choosing yes men or women, yet, they seem -- when they claim to get things done, it is usually by, one hand watches the other, you do what you have got to do. , evend fight rahm emanuel though he is a fellow christian, the secretary of the interior under reagan, the first one, and ed manes is connect sample and

i'm too young to remember the corruption of vice president iiro agnew under nixon but heard his name so much on the evening news when i was in kindergarten and elementary paull, and countless wolfowitz, and the last george w. bush administration and education secretary who gave us, what i call, although she meant well, no standardized test leave which did not flexibility for the state. one more problem that i see that it wish you would address, each theident appears to have secretary, the treasury, or the choice for attorney general order the irs to inspect the .ooks usually, lobbying groups and think tanks that are the opposite from the way the party

empowers the white house things at that time, and i thought i choices, butty that wonderful barter income who had so many of those problems getting the v.a. to do anything for him, my heart goes out to him. host: i will let you pick up on that. said old a loter of interesting things, and one of the things about our cabinet secretaries if they do not have in the way to look at it is the cabinet andetaries have to manage let's take the environmental protection agency head, yes, i think the person would like to

do a donald trump and run around the agency and say, it "you are fired, you are fired coming are fired," but the epa does not exist because someone made it up. it exists because congress passed laws creating it and telling it what to do. you cannot just get rid of it because you are cozy with this person or president's "yes" men. you have to convince congress to stop and repeal the clean air and as a republican congress, they may do that but that is more difficult. remember, we are an organization of laws, and while president trump may want to walk into some of these office buildings and tell everyone they are fired, they will say, great to see you, mr. president, can we have a selfie with you wish to mark that i am -- with you?

but i am protected by civil service and you cannot come in fired. host: good to be a topic for another segment. guest: [laughter] that is right. host: speaking of cabinet picks, that expected pick of rex tiller's and made official by donald trump in a tweet, saying he has choosing one of the greatest business leaders of the world, ceo of exxon mobil, to be his secretary of state and the basis nomination fight and the confirmation fight on capitol hill. ryan is in new york, new york, republican. caller: good morning, c-span. i wanted to get into the news media. it is so important when we are misinformed on a daily basis. to cnn, they are the most mendacious, deceptive news media that is out there. they lie all the time. our give you an example.

when donald trump went to meet with the president of mexico, they met and when donald trump came back, cnn started off in the morning and first thing they said was "donald trump lied about his trip, he said there was no discussion of building the wall." that was a stupid lie because people -- this is all coming from the left. they call it a euphemism, liberalism, but they really are left-wing fascist, these people, if you look at what they have destroyed throughout the world. but here's where they went wrong . andld trump went to mexico the mexico president said he would not give money to build the wall and donald trump said, let's hold that into they -- into bay. i did not come to talk about that. the way the extrapolated is based on a left-wing biased. they had to say he lied.

it goes on and on. instance, a couple of people said he was a racist. why? well, he called the mexican judge a mexican. that's the way we talk in new york. if i told you my best friend was raised in and brooklyn, that would make me a racist under the pc thinking. identified oneer thing in the last election, which is people were sick and tired of political correctness. and this goes back to looking at donald trump. his opponents are really worried and appalled about him. they think he is a racist. they do not believe that he is going to be a good president because of what he said. his supporters think that he is to first politician ever speak to fully and honestly.

that is something we will have to see as it works out. one of the points of my book is that all of this stuff, what you say, how you say it, etc., once you are president, reality matters. baloney on both sides that you heard during the the presidents come into office thinking they can continue to play that game. they cannot. reality matters. if donald trump wants to get the chinese, go get the chinese. if he wants to put a terrace on stuff, go do it -- tarffis stuff, go do it. that is reality, and people know the reality of their own situation. the point of the book is there comes a point in presidencies when the reality of you on situation is much more important

than what ever baloney or the press or the president of the united states is talking about, and that is what president have to worry about. host: north hollywood, california. james, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. wow. what a great guest to have. i would first like to thank c-span for the news they do pennell and like to thank madam kamarck for coming on. i will lay it out. host: 102, james. -- one or two questions, james. is unfortunate to me that so many americans do not see the american government has an organization to be valued [indiscernible] that thesehesis ands cap the policy communicating the policy and implementing the policy, my question is where do you think

president-elect donald trump is going to fall into this framework? and how we anticipate it will impact his foreign-policy? i hope to have you back again. you have so much to offer. guest: thank you. the thing we have to worry about for donald trump is on both sides of that, both the policy and the implementation of the policy. is the first presidential candidate in a long time who does not have a lot of reefing papers on their website, did not sheetst the typical fact that go along with presidential speeches of candidates during the campaign. we do not know exactly how he .ntends to do these things we know he wants to get tough on immigration. people elected him and were drawn to him to get tough on immigration. we do not know if he can

actually create a registry for muslims. you need appropriations, etc. we do not know what that level turn out to be. and of electronic sensors in some places a while on the border, what more does donald trump do and does that really ?ork once you build a wall, people can go over and under it, so does that really solve the problem? of course, the business of mexico paying for it is idiotic and basically he does not say that anymore because i think he knows it was a great campaign line. a lot of the things that president-elect trump has said cap real problems being implemented. the question is going to be going back to this literal or figurative. what to his supporters conclude in a year or in two years?

, do theye is no wall lose faith or do they say, no, we wanted him just to be tougher? are under theons amount that has been doing the obama administration, what do they say? that is what we are interested in seeing and that is one of the things going on in washington now. people are saying, do not taken literally. host: sherry, republican. caller: good morning. caller:good morning. i would like to -- i am not really up on all of this politics, but i have been trying to read about it. i am 74 years old. this is the worst i have ever seen election go. i never knew there was so much corruption in the government until this past year. killingg, stealing, the . what is wrong with our government and how can we ask some of this?

some of the things she says donald trump lied about, hillary or worse, so please, help me out on this. host: go ahead. guest: god is a matter of perception. we do have a fairly active judiciary -- that is a matter of perception. we do have a fairly active judiciary that finds out corruption in government. caughtere two that got for corruption this year and they are on their way to jail. host: news this morning. a 10 year sentence. for corruption, there is the headline from "the washington post." guest: we do tend to find corruption. ,hose are two people out of 538 however. the federal bureaucrats in washington have lots of regulations designed to prevent corruption.

in campaigns, we do have a lot haveing and i think we do them on both sides, and i'm sympathetic with that. i think you need to separate out what happens in campaigns. this was a particularly dirty from whatampaign happens in the government. i worked -- i have worked in 35 countries in the world, and i is a lot of there corrupt governments and we don't even come close. imagine being in the country -- one example, one where you go to the hospital, it is routine practice that your family has to pay off the nurse in order to get treated. it is also routine practice that the doctor says, you need this drug that we don't have it in the hospital. i have a clinic, there is a clinic down the street and you

can buy it there, say go down at street and absorb it their rate. this is not an unusual story. west countries in the world have levels of corruption that we cannot even anticipate or believe. i just want to give you -- i am not saying there is no corruption. i want to give you historic perspective that we are [indiscernible] host: the book focuses mostly on the executivehost: ranch, but the legislative branch doesn't get off without some criticism. "the founding fathers must be rolling in the graves. the branch of government meant to check the power of the reducede ranch is now to a few thousand well-connected kids getting the ticket punched so that they can go about and make a box, and the members themselves spencer much time in their districts raising money

that they cannot be bothered to learn much about the government they run." guest: what has happened is the government is let, loan, to use that phrase from the movie, but there is constitutional responsibility to hold the executive branch accountable. are you getting them what you are supposed to get done? are you spending the taxpayers money wisely? we don't have a lot of evidence they are stealing taxpayers money, that is hard to do in the government. we do have evidence that it is not necessarily said in the right way that their inefficiencies. congress used to hold oversight hearings and they have gotten over the oversight is this, and i'm hoping that they will get back into it because they are now being derelict in their constitutional duty. host: byron, republican, good morning. caller: good morning.

i have a couple things i like to say. one of the things is c-span, in my opinion, they picked a lot of these hackers from trying to undermine the president-elect. i think this lady is one of them. also, she makes a statement that we are a democracy. we are not a democracy. we are a republican, that is what sets us apart, our electorate system and what has happened with the democratic --ty is they have taken on become an [indiscernible] and the like a rest of the world, we have projected that and all i have to say. host: it might be a good time to go through your resume. guest: i am a democrat. i have worked for bill clinton in the white house, but i am also a political scientist and a

.cholar i do not think i am a political hack. i cannot help but say to the caller, yes, i am worried about donald trump, and it is quite apart from his conservative views. i am sort of sympathetic with some of them and i think we need corporate tax cuts because you are not competitive because of our tax structures. i am quite sympathetic with some republican policies. it is not just me. there are a lot of people in the country worried about donald trump's temperament to be precedent. it has nothing to do with socialism, and the policy issue, and it has to do with a way of usually that presidents

do because their words matter and their words have an impact in the rest of the world. i think that is the worry about trump. yes, it is my worry, but say it exceeds my worry as a democrat. tot: we are pointing viewers brookings.edu to see more of elaine kamarck's work. we have time for a few more calls. yanni has been waiting, maryland, independent. go ahead. caller: thank you, c-span and mrs. kamarck. my question regards the vetting system. you mentioned the united states opted for primaries opened [indiscernible] france optedthat for the party on the right and

opted for opening the primaries to all voters. why is probably the reason h president -- why president is not present himself this time around. i would like to know pc these cycles or party systems being or happening in more and more democracies as we move forward, and what would that mean to the type of politician that we are to be expecting moving forward? are we going to have more populist type of politicians and candidates? guest: great question. i think that certainly before this election, a lot of other democracies were looking at the primary system. they were looking at moving to primaries as we see them in the

united states. i think that following this election, i think we will see a lot of parties reconsidering that. think about it this way, a party is really a brand. the democratic brand means certain set of policy, the republican brand represents a certain set of policy. democracies are shortcuts for citizens to figure out what they are getting. have a party preference, even people who call themselves independence tend to be independent republicans or democrats in terms of their voting history. parties are keepers of the brand . the brand is not a set of products like it is in the private sector. it is a set of ideas and policy. when you open up your selection

system to the whole world or the citizenry, you risk losing control of your brand, and many republicans during this past year were concerned about that as donald trump began to win. i suspect you are going to see put the country's power may be thinking of the primary. host: who are some of the countries taking of that? guest: in great britain, a while, canada has not been as the caller said, friends just went in the direction. -- france just went in this direction. everyone is always interested in what america does, something that weighs on everybody's mind in the world because of who we are in the world. i think other countries have been looking at this, but i suspect the momentum may have slowed a bit this year. host: let's go to clearwater,

kansas, art is waiting. a republican. caller: my comment is also a question. the vice presidential debate the escrow -- fiasco, there was so much interruption by one candidate against the other and there was even an account published on that, as well, and i have said to people, having been a broadcasting major myself, i would have gone on the stage and fired the moderator, taking over and instructed the audio control room to mute the microphone of the interrupter so that the voters and viewers could have heard the full two-minute comment of the respondent. i think it was conducted incredibly unfairly and unprofessionally. guest: i would like your comment on that. that is a good idea.

i think all of us, not just in the vice presidential debate but in the presidential debate, everybody got irritated at everyone talking at once and yelling at each other. in thearted not just general election but the primaries. host: according to "time" magazine, their account had it as a high of 70 or more interruptions by tim kaine interrupting mike pence. guest: yes, i agree. this was not a great debate and it was frustrating to watch. primary ofack to the the debate, particularly on the republican side, or they were many, you had two or three people talking over each other, so i think the caller has a great idea and maybe they should negotiate this in the next round that if you are interrupting, they will cut your microphone off. i like it. host: berkeley springs, west is waiting,rl

republican. good morning. caller: good morning. onould like your opinion anyone in the federal government going before the oversight committee and putting the fifth amendment. you are talking about corruption and government a few minutes ago. i recall a years ago, the -- that blackge lady at the california steer $2 million into her husband's bank. it was reported to the ethics committee. not one word since. the clintons selling [indiscernible] in our government for millions of dollars. one more thing. when senator schumer wrote a letter to the lady at the irs that use your power to silence the tea party, you know,

corruption in our government cannot be overlooked. anyone goingyou, before and oversight committee and pleading the fifth amendment , they should strip them of their retirement right there on the spot. thank you. guest: well, -- [laughter] this is a little complicated to answer. people go before oversight committees generally to look at the performance of the agency. if there is criminal wrongdoing involved, that goes to the justice department and the justice department prosecutes and tries people, as they prosecuted the congressman -- what is his name? the member of congress just prosecuted and sent to jail. generally, if there is actual corruption involved, it comes out, it goes to the justice department, and this person goes

to trial. of chris, the trial happens, as other tiles have rights. congressional oversight, it may turn up corruption or criminality, but congressional oversight is a broader and more fundamental process because that is this department or agency doing what it is supposed to do? is it having the outcome it is supposed to have? . situation, for instance, people did lose their job in the situation because of wet they did in the v.a. as heard, they were not treating people according to the timely schedule, so people did lose their job for that. is different from oversight and that actually goes to the justice department and often does.

host: shock sentenced to 10 years in federal -- sentence to 10 years in federal for benefiting himself and his family, accused of racketeering and prosecutors had accused the longtime congressman of a medley hisegal maneuvers to cover tracks, many centering on his unsuccessful bid to become mayor of philadelphia in 2000 and seven -- in 2007. good morning. caller: good morning. we are speaking about corruption, but we could see the greatest corruption with the hillary scandal or the emails of benghazi, but when we have a bringingt that is prosecution come how to get above and beyond that? i think we should be treated thatrly because people see

they have special preference, and that is not correct. wheree in the government everybody is supposed to be treated equally. yet, they want to go behind after trump with his deal with russia, but we have a person [indiscernible] , yet,ook responsibility they don't want to believe that. they went to ask russia and trump, you have to be just as truthful as everybody else. how do we fix this problem? guest: we fix this problem by having independent prosecutors, and that are prosecutors are not appointed, most of them are not appointed by the president of the united states. the prosecutors are independent civil servants at the state and federal level, and they decide when to prosecute. they decide whether or not an

action has criminality in it. there is no evidence that donald ties to russia involve anything criminal, so people are wondering about it, speculating about it, but there is no prosecution going on with donald trump and probably will not be. similarly, there were lots of questions about her email, not a smart thing for her to have done, but the prosecutors concluded there was not coming out be there. there are things they do in the public that is done, not good, and you can argue that about trump and hillary, but there is a bar that needs to be reached for prosecution and the bar for criminality, which in neither instance to the government get there. you couldnder if focus on donald trump's

relationship with the intelligence community, specifically, and the military, as well. one of the things you talk about is one of the top priorities for an incoming president is to have a good understanding of the capabilities of his intelligence community and military capability. guest: that is a cause of concern because what we saw in thebush administration was taking of intelligence from here, there, and ignoring other intelligence. good, nottually redundant or inefficient, good. they all bring different viewpoints to the table. they were among those intelligence agencies, lots of centers on our involvement in ,raq and the question of wmd which they cannot find, but they did not get a seat at the table.

you have to listen to all of them. donald trump is starting out on a bad foot with the intelligence agencies. i do not know who he thinks will give him intelligence. maybe things seen and will give him intelligence, but we spend about $70 billion a year collecting intelligence, and for him to say he will not take the president's daily brief, which is the most important and most secret intelligence in the world, is kind of scary because you wonder what either he will miss stuff or mike pence will be the president. host: the book is "why presidents fail: and how they can succeed again." the author and our guest this morning, elaine kamarck. thanks so much. we appreciate having you one. guest: thanks for having me and thanks to the callers. friends next, my expected to play a major role in

the trump administration. we will take a closer look into this administration and in indiana with top reporters who have covered them over the years. coming up in a minute on "the washington journal." ♪ >> c-span studentcam contest is in. a. we are asking students to tell us the most important issue for the new president and congress to address in 2017. join the former student cam when .here -- winner ashley, tell us about your documentary? we produced a documentary, where we covered issues of homeless veterans and orange county, california. we decided that these sort of people who have given [indiscernible] and the fact that there are now

living on the streets, not having family or anyone to care for them was not ok, so we decided we are going to talk about this issue within our community and decided to make a c-span documentary about it. at highage all seniors school, juniors of high school, middle school is, to use this totform to raise their voice say that your generation deserves to be heard in the government and it is a better place to speak into these issues. i think my device for students on the fence of starting the documentary is to really look into your community and see what is affecting those people around you because they are the ones who you see the most, the ones are around you on most every day. if there is an issue you see

happen every day on the street, that is probably where you can start. be a part of this documentary because you want to be a voiceprint community. thank you, ashley for your advice and tips. if you want information on our studentcam contest, go to our website, studentcam.org. >> we have a special webpage at www.c-span.org to help you follow the supreme court. go to www.c-span.org and select supreme court, near the right hand top of the page. once on our supreme court page, you will see for the most recent oral arguments heard this term. click on the view all link to see all of the arguments. in addition, find recent appearances by many supreme court justices or watch them in their own works, including one-on-one interviews with justices kagan, thomas and -- and ginsburg.

there's also a list of all current justices and links the seal of their appearances on c-span, as well as other supreme court videos available on demand. follow the supreme court at www.c-span.org. 's washington journal" continues. a tuesday round table, we will spend our next hour focusing on vice president mike pence and the role he will play in the incoming trunk administration -- trump administration. we are joined by two reporters who covered mike pence over the years. tony cook joins us in indianapolis, indiana. the reporter with the "indianapolis star." in studio with tim alberta with the "national review." i know you traveled with mike pence during the campaign and a one story that got attention, you wrote that mike pence went to a political recasting that makes him "a study and. contradiction"

whatever -- a study and contradiction."what are the sides of mike pence ? guest: it was interesting to watch and strike a balance between staying true to himself and not only the lawmaker he has been throughout his career and politician he has been, but the person he is, the type of man he is and the morals he has talked about for years as being central to his dna, politically and otherwise. trying to balance that with being true and loyal to his running mate, donald trump, who in many ways is the polar opposite of my parents in terms of their personal lives and the paths they have taken to the respective positions and policies. it is interesting to watch, but mike pence has a great deal of respect for donald trump and i've used -- and he views his role as being the subordinate. he will give the vice president

to donald trump, and i think mike pence wants to not go public with any disputes at the can help it and wants to try to keep things in house doesn't want to be seen as a rabble-rouser internally, someone contradicting or butting heads with donald trump. when there aree, disagreements, as there have been, he feels a need to the two to himself and make his voice heard. at times, that lends to contradictions and complex pilot about. -- complexity i talk about. host: tony cook, why did donald pence?ick mike what did he bring from his time in indiana? pence hasl, governor always been or has always described himself as christian,

conservative and republican, in that order. he really appeals to that based on the republican party and that christian conservative base, and i think trump probably viewed him as a very important bridge .o the group of voters governor perry also has a lot of experience on the hill. i think we have seen that in some of trump's choices for his cabinet. we can see some of mike pence's influence, i got familiar with how things work in washington and from -- and trump with no governing experience, really needed that to round out his ticket. i think those are the two main things that parents -- that mike pence brings to the ticket. host: our lines are open for viewers if you have questions or comments about mike pence. republicans, (202)-748-8001. democrats, (202)-748-8000.

independents, (202)-748-8002. one of the things we want to do is allow our viewers to listen to mike pence in his own words talk about the stories that have influenced him, the issues that matter to him. had one oftimes he these discussions was that the political conservative action conference last year. he talks about where he came from and his concerns with where the obama administration has led the united states. let's listen. [video clip] built a gasmy dad station business in southern indiana. politics as ad in democrat, when i heard the voice of the 40th president of the united states, it changed for me. i lived the dream of becoming a congressman from that small town and now i serve as governor as the -- for the great state of indiana. [laughter] --

[applause] i served 12 years in congress and if i only had 12 years that to live, i would want to live as a member of congress because that was the longest 12 years of my life. [laughter] [applause] the truth is we have not had a government as good as her people in washington, d.c., for some time. it is worse today than ever before. the errors of this administration are too numerous to count, but there is the government takeover of health care, or now the internet, the president's unconstitutional executive amnesty or the war on coal. the administration is threatening our prosperity. most americans understand you cannot improve health care by ordering every american to buy health insurance, whether wanted, needed or not. you cannot expect the to thrive under unjustifiable regulations. you cannot change the laws of

the land by executive fiat and you cannot build an energy policy by raising the cost of electricity and working americans. it should almost go without saying obama must be repealed, the fcc's rules must be reversed, the president's executive action rescinded and the epa's war on american energy must end. was given speech before mike pence was picked to be part of the trump-pence ticket. how many of those priorities have survived the nomination process and joining the trump ticket? pence is that the same we see today? -- is that the same pence we see today? guest: i think it is. he hits all the right notes and he does so effortlessly in front of a republican crowd. i like to ask a republican

politician, especially someone running for office for the first time, what is the one issue where you are not a conservative? everyone has one. i do know that mike pence doesn't have an issue. this guy checks the list. he has referred to himself as a party before, and that is only to say that at the time he is not agreed with the republican party doing the latter half of the bush administration but it is because he was to the right of the party, not the left. basically you heard governor pence talking about in that speech that those are priorities he will continue to push in the trump administration. host: that was to an national audience at cpac last year. tony, can you talk about mike pence's track record and the issues he has made a priority that our national viewers may not know much about? sure. social issues have definitely

dominated much of his time as governor in indiana. although he ran for governor on an economic platform, once he got into office, the legislature sent him measures such as the abortion restriction enacted in indiana last year. the year before that, it was the religious freedom restoration act in indiana, which many people felt was anti-gay. those kinds of issues have dominated his time here, although he insisted that jobs and the economy has been his focus. he also enacted pretty sweeping health care -medicaid expansion 2.0,diana calledh hip which are think is important as rheumatoid is ahead for obamacare. here in indiana, what he did was

he instituted changes that would essentially require people to contribute some, even though they are on medicaid. he sees this, as the governor, and that is something that the responsibilityl is something he takes seriously when it comes to health care. i think as are some of the important things to know about him in indiana. host: i should note, a special on for indiana residents, specifically, so that line is (202)-748-8003. otherwise, republicans, (202)-748-8001. democrats, (202)-748-8000. independents, (202)-748-8002. for most ofhe topic the rest of our program today.

let's start with judy, las vegas, nevada. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to note mr. pence understands separation of church and state? host: tim alberta? guest: i think he does. i think governor pence if you are some here would argue that the establishment clause in the constitution is something that has been over interpretative by the left and something he believes is not as strict with practice or should be a someone on the left would say. that is an example of a governor in selecting in many views, especially when the comes to social issues or anything that can be construed as a tax on the christian conservative community, a theme throughout his career, where threat, rioe is a

or perceived, to the values of social conservatives, evangelical christians, and you saw this a couple of years ago with the religious freedom fight in the state of indiana. he is veryt sensitive to that, so that is one issue among many others where he would be very outspoken in the way that maybe not all republicans would be. host: tony cook, you and tim to religiousht up freedom restoration act in indiana. will you explain that? guest: sure. was topose of this law protect those with strong thegious beliefs from sponsor's position, they wanted to protect religious believers

from what they call government overreach and make sure they were free to exercise their religious beliefs. with the debate over whether a christian baker should be for aed to bake the cake gay wedding and those sorts of things, you know, that is where these conflicting values of religious conscience and ky -- gay-rights collided, so this would set judicial bar to her -- i amould be required trying to think had the best -- where a sorry judge would basically have to decide whether someone's exercise of their religion would be encouraged on by the government and it would set the bar in favor of religious believers, so people were worried that this would be

allowing people people with religious [indiscernible] viewers to beour able to hear mike pence in his own words, so this past spring, speech on how he found his religious beliefs. there was that one of the colleges that he spoke at current one of their ceremonies, april 30, 2016. mike pence talking about how he found his religion. [video clip] mike pence: thin it began to meet people at college. yes.were confident, there are confident, yes, but they had something i lacked in my life. i knew in my heart of hearts that they had something to call .oy, in good times and in bad there seemed to be something in their life that was beyond them. and i felt the need in my life

to embrace it. i will never forget one of the fellows, a pastor now in indianapolis and a close friend of mine, was talking to me about matters of faith and my resistance to that. i went up to him and said, i decided to say i am a christian and did the christian thing, right? so i told him i wanted to get one of those crosses you where -- wear. those look good. i bothered him about it. this is before you are doing this, he had a catalog to call and order a cross. i questioned him about it more than once and i will not forget the day i said, hey, men, i am going to go with that christian thing now, so get me that number . i want to call and get that cross like years and he turned to me and said words that impacted my life like a meteor

strike. he doesn't even remember saying that to this day. he said, mike, remember, you have to wear it in your heart before you wear it around your neck. wear it in your heart before you wear it around your neck. and he walked away. i wrestled with those words for days that followed. i did not know what he meant but i knew there was truth in it. i found myself a few months ,ater in that spring, 1978 heard a sermon or two at a youth christian music festival in kentucky. i had always heard those words that god so loved the world he gave his only son. it hit me that night, that meant god so loved me that he gave his only son, and overall but the

heart of gratitude, that night, i gave my life to jesus christ and it has made all the difference. host: i president-elect mike pence this past spring. we are taking your calls as we talk about the vice president-elect and his role in the trump administration. we want to get your thoughts and questions. houston, texas. republican. go ahead. --ler: i would like to know , and energygy wonk was absent from the trump-pence campaign. how do i get, should be done on energy? i think mike pence would be an leadlent choice to presidential energy, environmental policy deployment

plans. how do i get involved in that? i have written policy, policy .eployment unlike to get it to trump-pence and see if they would consider it. i have no idea how to do that. tim alberta, do you see this as an avenue mike pence could take on, could energy make his place to make his mark? guest: i would told robert that drive tost bet is to manhattan and go to trump tower and wait in the lobby and try to get a packet of your work into the hands of one of many aides were running around in the lobby. i think it isn't a bad idea. i think governor pence will have some energy issues. when i talked to a lot of

congressional republicans over the last few weeks, an open line to the transition team, some of whom served at governor pence and know him well, among many of these, energy is when discussed, or they talked about opening up some federal lands for drilling, much more offshore drilling, trying to sort of take more than an all of the above approach to energy exploration and loosening some regulatory restrictions they complained the obama administration had installed over the last eight years. i do think that is one area where governor pence could be active. i think you'll be active in a number of areas. this is a vice president will be given pretty broad area. host: hassey signaled which one he prefers? gues

most powerful vice president in history. how is that? said, you mp's son would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy. that at the d at ime, but what is hugely appealing about his vice those who are nervous about donald trump himself, mike pence will be policy realm as vice president and have a hand n major legislative and regulatory initiative the administration undertakes over years. four host: line for indiana residents. bob is calling in, go ahead. caller: good morning. greetings from the home state of c-span and purdue university and brian lamb, he's done a years.ul job over the what i'm trying to call to

reinsurance or an agreement with mike pence's style. a resident d him as and small business, i've been in business 40 years. happened to us with obamacare and the implementation the segment ion of of small business owners wishes and needs. where i hear pence being strong in our state is that he will the end user of the product and have input from not the medical world or the consulting world, but also from people who have to pay for the products. we all have been working under decreases and costs and e all have those of us in the insurance industry and i had a couple million dollars three years ago in the group medical a dozen groupsan were annihilated with all of the executive order actions and most

carriers, i had three, folded. they just went out of business with six-month notice and let that if you had ive or 10 employees, as a distributor of healthcare, you're not even sitting at the table. so where i felt treated more airly, mike pence, is that he seems to come to the factories, he seems to come to the he seems to orld, come to the end student, if it is an educational matter. but in our case, small business owners, who have their own provide rying to healthcare and for years we've said, let's get health savings let people pay for part of this, the whole world is purdue up of universities or the factories. the individual small business person have a seat at the table. ear, elieve pence, as an is toward that.

host: bob, thanks for the call from indiana. let you pick up that and and mike pence and ionship with business other interest in the state, is that the same mike pence you covering him? gues gues is t: yeah, mike pence definitely interested in, you businessman's perspective and i think that he pretty n that consistently here in indiana, though i would say perhaps not much as his predecessor, itch daniels, who was really known for his fiscal and more so than ies, governor pence has been. hat said, you know, governor pence has looked to cut taxes in here, part oficaid hat involved negotiation with

the hospitals here in indiana, who of course, wanted to see so they would ed patients.nsured definitely had an ear to the business community, certainly. host: and donald trump's pick for secretary of state comes from the business community, announce third degree morning rex tillerson is his pick. mike pence made comments about tillerson, here is what he had to say. the other busy day here at transition, we're looking forward to more interviews and discussions and we just couldn't be more grateful that rex tillerson's proven leadership and been willing to step forward and serve our nation as next secretary of state. general john kelly, department of homeland ecurity, represent the caliber of experience the american people are coming to expect from the cabinet coming together

around our president-elect and e're looking forward to more announcements this week, we'll be traveling with president-elect today to wisconsin as part of the thank-you tour. the work of assembling an and cabinet will be ready to make america great continues today. all.k you host: that was just outside of trump tower this morning. tim alberta, how much influence has mike pence had on the picks hat we've seen coming out of donald trump's future cabinet? guest: i think as much influence vice president in recent memory, quite frankly. look at tom price, for example, who is nominated to be the secretary of health and services, tom price is not only a medical doctor from eorgia and someone who has authored repeatedly over the ast i believe four congresss a comprehensive healthcare plan that could, in fact, be the

blueprint for replacing obamacare. tom price happens to be one of mike pence's closest friends, served with him mike pence, way back when, chaired republican study committee, which for a long time before the house reedom caucus came along, was sort of the home base for the most conservative members in the house of representatives, mike chairman of that group. the way the group works is leads, y once a chairman he essentially helps to handpick he succeeding chairman of that group. mike pence, when he left, two years later, wound up coming helped to handpick tom price, guys with extremely close relationships. coincidence when there is an opening and hhs is not ust another cabinet position, when the number one policy promise arguably of the incoming dministration to repeal and replace obamacare, hhs secretary is large role. coincidence mike pence's best friend and closest

olitical allie is the guy chosen for that role. that has mike pence's it.erprints all over host: we discussed mike pence in this, our last hour of "washington journal." residents, 202-748-8003, want to hear your stories. republicans, democrats and independents, as usual. chad in augusta, georgia, a democrat. chad, good morning. caller: good morning. was one of the bernie sanders voters and i've been talking to aboutof other millennials mike pence and his role in donald trump's administration. e are all kind of worried because we fear something like bush, where you get most of the policy position, serious policy position from and our major concern is that pence seems to be someone is religious idealog, and seems to be getting a lot of believes and his policy

positions straight from his eligious doctrine and i am concerned that he doesn't understand separation from church and state and he's not out for the best interest of americans as a catering to ther evangelicals and my concern is a gets that really group going is policies that are and more sive inclusive of minority and lgbt seems like they are -- to the freedoms being expanded to all. host: chad, got your point. tony cook, let you speak to this we learn from mike pence's track record in indiana. yeah. any time that pence seeing religious freedom conflicting with gay rights, his errs record shows that he

on the side of religious freedom. i think that stems from his religious beliefs that we heard him talking about earlier program. so, you know, he sees these as conflicting, values es conflicting and he feels that when balancing that because, you know, freedom of religion is in the constitution that is the side you ought to err on. see this as, you know, forging his religious on other people, he sees it as sticking closely to the constitution. and of course, you know, that is open for debate, but i think way he views it, at least. independent in rich. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to comment. hope that mike pence and

help people can with christian faiths, because here, the radio stations and the news networks, technology that nobody knows about that they are using christians and something has to be done about it. go to e'll donaldsonville, louisiana, effrey, an independent, good morning. caller: yes, sir, good morning. just like to say, as before, give thanks, the bible says give thanks and due to those who deserve it and mike pence is one of those. i just pray that the american eople will just get together pray to god for the president-elect donald trump and mike pence, that we could all overcome the problems and situations through prayer and

another. one thanks. host: okay. new york, new york. neil, good morning. you r: good morning, thank for taking my call. thank god for c-span. you answered the questions vice president-elect philosophy about gays. what about reconciling, how is reconciling conversion therapy? thank you for taking my call. i'll let you rta, start. guest: yeah, this is something animated the left, last severaler the onths, sort of down the home stretch of the election. if there is one thing, you know, the left, i mean the organized, politically active progressive movement in america, that is governor pence's past support for conversion therapy and that peopleifically for young who have, you know, come out as to their parents

and their parents, you know, put them into some sort of therapy treatment or conversion treatment, as it were expressed r pence support for that in the stretch of the election. if there is one thing, you know, past, ft, i that has become a lightning rod. i've never heard that come up on the campaign trail, never heard it, you know, in a speech or interview, frankly, not sure anybody asked about that. that remains a thing from his has come back to haunt him insofar as it eroded any have had with the left, as well as something the gays serving in military. governor pence, when he was congressman, took a strong stance on that, that is another a lot of issues. mentioned earlier, this is a gentleman throughout his political career, who has not left much room to his own right.cal he is reliably conservative on ust about every issue, especially social issues, so gay therapy, gays serving

openly in the military, these are things mike pence is not going to moderate. host: how much was mike pence about this by the indiana press, maybe not during the so much, but in the months and years before the election, how much were these coming up in the state? i can't say that i recall conversionsked about therapy, in particular. asked aboute's been gay rights many, many times, most famously on george show and whether it would discriminate and he the answer and became the butt of the jokes on late-night programs. right, he's been

very consistent on the issue, or her you agree with it past, nd that is something he has not varied from. immense pressure from the business community because about the oncerned tourism industry in indiana, threateningses were to, you know, change their expansion plans here in indiana rifra.e of he did, within a week of signing sign a fix to the bill it so thatially made it would not override local ondiscrimination ordinances that cities had put in place. that is really the only time i think of where he has moved

to the left on these kind of issues. host: about 25 or 30 minutes this segment, want to hear your thoughts on vice president-elect mike pence and indiana residents, a special line, 202-748-8003. otherwise, democrats, 202-748-8000. 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. temperature going to the line independents, angelanbowie , maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. heard the comment from mr. cook to millennials, but he never answered the question about should he be afraid that ike pence will choose his religion versus freedom for all, which i find ironic that talk about nts to religious freedom, but only free, freedom gets to be no one else's does. so when we talk about is he continue to rule or create policies that only religion over all

others, isn't that in violation of the constitution and how will up with the rest people?merican i just thought it is very interesting, here we are, eight years later, when a country felt hope, i mean it was a different feeling to where we are now face thanksgiving next january of 2017, the country feels in dire fear and why isn't that being addressed by the president-elect president-elect, when we talk about accepting god in your heart and all of that, but yet, there is so much fear. host: couple issues, people? i just thought it is very interesting, here we are, eight years later, when a country felt hope, i mean it was a different tim ng to where we are now alberta, i'll let you start. guest: it is important to one wledge this has become of the most polarizing and politically es speaking culturally

today, the issue of religious liberty and what it means to different people and how they interpret that, you know, what it means to have, you know, religious liberty, while at the with ime, complying government laws and regulations. i think that what we've seen last six over the years to the hobby lobby sisters and the little and catholic charities being told to cover contraception and the macare political fight that ensued and think about governor pence's in indiana with religious freedom restoration act, all to a sense tributed on the right it is very much, i think it is more sort of potent than the left, just to say, when i traveled the years over the last two with the campaign, talked to republicans and religious voters, they feel as though their -- their belief under attack. pastors ular, talk to and officials with churches,

elders and deacons and the like percolateing and maybe been overstated in some shows where governor pence is coming from in this respect that churches, the trajectory of the obama administration was going as far as limiting the ability of citizens and of nonprofits to choose, you know, hich government regulations they will and will not comply with, there was a fear i think in the evangelical community soon enough churches allowed to claim nonprofit status would be if pped of nonprofit status there were political talk coming from the pulpit, gay marriage, abortion or other issues. people look at that and sort of laugh and say that is not realistic and maybe it is the point is among the issues that animated the republican base over the last years as i saw them, i think this was a sleeping giant something that drove republican voters to the polls who were not enthuzed by donald

candidacy, but between the supreme court issue of next nominating two or three justices and the issue evangelical christian community has been under attack by secular democratic-led big whether it is true or not, i think has been xtremely important force for a lot of conservatives. mike pence comes from that world, he is especially those concerns and in fact if he decides to act on the federal s government under the trump administration to act on them, i think you could see culture wars over the next four years. north reg up next, carolina, grady, good morning. caller: good morning, thanks for program. americas get now, off track, america forgets how that a was formed, people came to america, they came in here for freedom of religion.

america has made up many religions, there are more people more religions in s erica than religion evangelicals. mike pence religion is personal. i served 30 years in the military, my religion was personal. couldn't put my -- force my religion on my soldiers. soldiers from all over the world and i had to respect them, but we are getting to the point they told me first thing they told me as a private when i ent into the military, i gave up my rights to protect the people.nd serve other mike pence is the vice president all the ited states, creeds, all races, all all religions, he can't just represent his. america is great. was a little kid, a black

an, we was oppressed more than anybody, but we knew, we knew america was great, they told us in school, america was of nations, nation but we have forgotten our history. somebody needs to go back and people our history, we got to learn to protect all people of us have us, none any priority with god, because all feel it, we need to stop putting priorities on who is who is best and who is religio religious. host: tony cook, pick up on this point. of alked about freedom religion and how mike pence it in his time as governor. i want to focus on the caller about the make america great again statement. mike pence say in the brief interview this morning.

talking was mike pence about whatever time in american history america was great, was talked about he in the state before the trump dministration or something he embraced since joining the ticket? guest: yeah. -- he never cast it quite like that during his time as governor. know, he has always the problems that indiana is facing in light of, you know, overreaching federal overnment and if the federal government wasn't imposing itulations on businesses, if wasn't for obamacare, then indiana's potential would be unleashed. so i think that is more as been of a federal versus states

from nt that we've seen pence over the years, rather this more make america let's return to some kind of stature that we've that the past and lost, is not necessarily the kind of language that mike pence used joining the trump ticket. host: of course, prior to being the nor, prior to joining trump ticket, he served as a member of congress. mike pence, not without his own head butting against his own times from rship at when he served as head of the republican study committee and back inrta talked about mike c-span interviewed pence about operation offset, a roject he started in wake of emergency funding after hurricane katrina, which was his own riction within party. here is a little bit about it

and we'll come back and talk about it. >> when we, when many house conservatives, after congress appropriated $60 billion in six days to pay for the cost of katrina, and we should, many house conservatives were very roubled about the fact we hadn't begun a conversation of how we were going to pay for it. with you and say that when we put together what e called operation offset, responding to a member of our leadership who said, was nowhere to have said, else to be cut in the government. i remember. if >> it was. i challenge the republican study to spend a long our members and to build some proposals for budget cuts, we ended up coming up with proposals, just unveiled in a press conference in september under operation offset.

know, it did create some friction in the republican any social in setting, it is sometimes awkward to bring up the small matter of but in the end, the passage of the first deficit since 1997 that and i think will certify in the next two weeks was an important first step. it showed that process, even friction, could ultimately fiscal n a step toward discipline and my ambition is to make that just the first step. host: that interview takes place years ago, if you watch the full interview, see it at c-span.org, tim alberta, mike pence talking about friction party and party leadership. interesting mike pence is seen as donald trump's best envoy to leadership in congress. guest: very fascinating to that interview and

know, it is you going to be great feeder to watch y speaking mike pence operate within the trump administration now because of his own history as someone who welcomed and sort of sought out some conflict within his own party, when he saw the party straying from core principles of smaller business, fiscal restraint is something he and i alked about in an interview shortly before the election, he talked about the republican party lost his way during sort f the latter half of the bush administration and how that sort of gave rise to the tea party in many e, i think ways, was intellectual godfather to the idea the republican party conservative and that it should welcome some of conservative elements fight thanksgiving insurgency against the establishment of the party. mike pence is now establishment the party, he is vice president-elect. when donald trump and his $1 isors are talking about trillion infrastructure package as top priority for getting out 100 days of the new

administration, mike pence in the video about eeding spending offsets for hurricane katrina relief. to demand ce going spending offset for infrastructure package? hat is going to be a fascinating fight to watch, not only play out in congress, but within the administration mike pence take a back seat to donald trump and ultimately se, but say, i am subordinate to the or be nt, it's his call, more forceful than that? envelope congress and butted heads with the bush administration over fiscal be specialing to watch how willing he is to take on his own president and his own administration on some of the fights. host: the article you referred beginning of the ovember, life on the inside,

mike pence and trib lent trip with the donald trump campaign s the headline from the "national review" story, if you guest, read it by our tim alberta. joanna, a democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. like to talk about the -- did with gb thing he h indiana, but also what he it with the affordable care indiana, which he held out until he got his way, to in his wayuld put it as far as income of people, to threshold of 13,000. ofyou had 13,000, you're out the loop for any kind of help in indiana. wages he's e created, which is a temp rganization that will only allow people to hire through at organizations

$7-something per hour and the temp place takes $1 each hour people and hold the positions for at least a year, will take this country will o the '50s, and so mr. trump. we are looking at the onset of back things we have already set in place, which is liberties s and that's supposed to be here from beginning. now we're going back. tony cook, can you pick up history of mike pence and how he dealt with the affordable state?t and wages in the guest: yeah, sure. so i guess i'll start with the latter. wages, that has been a constant criticism from democrats here in indiana, the administration. while unemployment is low here indiana and jobs, record

number of jobs here currently, same time, the wages in other o folks states is not risen as quickly has been consistent source of criticism from this political opponents here. we may be attracting jobs, but re those call center jobs that pay relatively low wages, the that we igh-tech jobs want to be attracting that carry higher wages? certainly been part of the debate here in indiana. expansion, you know, this was a situation where pressure from as the hospitals to expand the and am here in indiana pence was essentially looking for a way to do this in a way was consistent with his conservative values. longer old out a year

than many other governors, as he hhs over how to implement the expansion here and initially they probably wanted some work equirements and things like that to be associated with the expansion, they had to give up things at insistence of is still the contribution to the hsa accounts people on uired for medicaid here, even though that s based on income and in some cases people are required to contribute a few dollars a month. from viewers hear on what role you think mike in the trump lay administration, what issues you want to see him take on and any questions you have with our panel. 10 minutes left in the panel. we will look for your tweets. numbers on the phone the screen. you can call on twitter. is a writes, mike pence

prince among players, what a ignified, soft spoken, intelligent gentleman. trump's picks have been superb. different take on mike pence from bobby. for seems to be prepping president. trump equals bigot, racist and trump.han a few comments on c-span wj, as folks follow along with our segment. you can call in like don did from st. cloud, florida, a democrat. go ahead. caller: yes, good morning, c-span. good morning to the american people. mike pence and the republican arty can no longer take the high ground as the conservative party. after backing and supporting a an like donald trump, whose administration has shown already hat they're picking the billionaires and klan members to of the united states

america. so pence can no longer -- i ean, the republican party can no longer take the moral ground party for the godly they e righteous people, are -- have shown to support, ot all republicans, but the ones who supported trump has bigots ey are racist, and as hillary clinton said, deplorables. tim alberta, let you start. guest: look, no question that governor mike pence, vice president-elect mike pence has mystifying fashion, one of the most polarizing people in country. in the i say mystifying because to the point that somebody i think twitter, it is hard to gentile, soft-spoken ort of relatable every man in

politics than mike pence. he's very approachable, very he does not do much fire and brim stone, but beneath exterior is absolutely the concerted rt of a ideolog. e has a conservative set of principles he adheres to. host: more traditional epublicans before donald trump came along, do they see mike ence as person who needs to uphold the brand or challenge donald trump at time? guest: no question about it. think the turns point in donald trump's presidential campaign in terms of beginning o rally the republican party around him and sort of begin to bring republican voters back home was his selection of mike pence. i cannot tell you, look, i was talking to some of the smartest most experienced strategists and lobbyists and elected republican the party a couple of years ago, talking about, wouldn't it be great to pair

mike pence with jeb bush or rubio. inside theis popular republican party and even popular with a lot of more establishment republicans who he sort of waged internal battles with. why? because they think that mike is a man of his word, a man of character, a man who that from a set of mreefs they respect, even if they don't is why i beliefs, that described him as so polarizing. it is very difficult to find like mikes who do not in e or who do not believe mike pence and have a confidence of faith in his ability to be a voice of reason inside this themistration that many of are uneasy about. i think that on the left, mike ence has become embodiment and the symbol of what they dislike and distrust about the party, somebody who

views that are much too far to the right for their own liking, somebody willing to take the government in a direction reflective of person views than of balanced objective assessment of the role of government in everyday life of i think mike nd pence will probably not get less be rizing, i think he will front and center in a number of ebates that are going to serve the american public. i don't think there is any way around that. host: time for one or two more calls, we want viewers to keep calling, for the rest of the program after the guests leave views that are much too far to the right for their similar, they ebody

re aligned, that is not necessarily a surprise. i can say in indiana, governor ence was certainly friendly with business interests, but you necessarily see him quite an open, quite as open door to lobbyists and special interest from the business community as much as some previous governors and i do think that while pence is sensitive to the needs

do he business community, i think that when it comes to some thical issues, he is seen as someone who, you know, tows the lot and steers clear of a of these sorts of conflicts of interest that you see trump criticized for now and that a lot of other politicians have been iana criticized for. if you look at his conflict -- his economic interest statement and financial know, you'll see very few financial entanglements outside his public sector salary. area think this was an here pence has a pretty firm place to speak from, but at the same time, you know, he's administration that is listening to some interests special certainly with donald trump, you

have a lot of concerns about his interests and how those are going to intersect with the presidency. the last alberta, in minute, would you agree? guest: i would. it is jarring for anybody who attention to the trump-pence ticket, especially down the stretch and the chance draining the swamp. mike pence really took on that enthusiastically. every rally he talked about it wasn't e swamp, just a chance. to see the cabinet and the still-forming administration populated by major business interests, i don't hink it is surprising insofar as this is politics, any successful politician will have cozy relationships with business interests. president barack obama was no xception to that in his own cabinet. i think that for a ticket that of so explicitly on the idea shaking up washington, bringing it has been ood,

startling to see the degree to which they have surrounded themselves with so many insiders interests.ss host: thanks to tim alberta, "national review," national review.com. tony cook is with the "indianapolis star," of course indy star.com. appreciate your participation on the panel. didn't get in, want to hear ine, your thoughts. the last 20 minutes of the program, we're asking about the role of vice president-elect pence in the trump administration. what issues do you want to see him taking up or what role do play?ant him to republicans call in on 202-748-8001. democrats 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. and as you in now do, show you mike pence from the heritage foundation dinner talking about the importance of supreme court nominees to the trump administration. mike pence: i traveled around the country and reminded people, elected a re president to serve a four-year

term, right before he's re-elected to serve another four-year term, i would often emind people as our president-elect would, that the next president would likely have the opportunity and influence the supreme court and its 40 years for the next and the american people responded to that message and calling. [applause] mike pence: i want to thank the heritage foundation, another conservative organizations like federalist society, who a list that in, legal scholars and conservative thought leaders call a gold mine conservative jurisdiction and assured that our appointident-elect will justices to the supreme court of the united states of america in late and ion of the

great justice scalia. host: that was vice president-elect mike pence last heritage foundation dinner. for the last 20 minutes of the program, we're asking what role the vice president-elect to play in the trump administration, what lead do you want him to on? james is up first, san diego, california, a republican. sticking nks for around. caller: hi, good morning. question about mike pence and my concern has been since he was announced, i spent a lot of time on the whole campaign, i histories, the positions and the real concern i have with regard to mike pence an issue of integrity with respect to the fact that donald has spent decades funding the liberal democrats. he gave tens and tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions to hillary chuck schumer, to

rangel, entire wing of the democratic party and his family, ivanka trump raising for the 2013 er in election and so, i just don't really understand how mike pence have jumped with such confidence that donald trump is the to be supporting that mike e issues pence alleges he believes and aligns himself with when toned has such- donald trump a long history of funding democrats and for the democrats, 2014.il i just really don't understand ow there will be a check and balance with regard to his own personal integrity. ost: would you rather have a mike pence there to be a balance, if donald trump does go that you are worried about? or would you rather it be else who is not as --

doesn't have the track record pence's ally of mike conservatism? caller: well, firstly, we don't history at all of donald trump being willing to of his any decisionmaking power. he's a man, his own man, a and i just don't see him compromising on anything historically stood or, to give up some of that decision-making to mike pence, muchless being check and balance for him. for the call from san diego. pollstar, talk about a new out about mike pence and his favorability ratings coming into position of vice president. the story noting he viewed less incoming than recent vice presidents, according to research center survey. out of 4 in 10 surveyed, five opinion of pence, compared

o 6 in 10 who had favorable opinion of joe biden. al gore had 6 out of 10, 54% said pence is president if e somebody happens to donald trump. noting half of all respondents pence will have the right amount of influence within the trump administration, less than the same about dick cheney and who said that about gore. we're talking about mike pence, the role you see for mike pence n the incoming trump administration. virginia, goody, morning. caller: good morning, c-span. hello. i am a democrat. wondering is mike pence going to talk donald trump into to ging back his jobs america? is he going to set the tone for america? somebody else let

like ford or -- someone like tone?set the and -- host: what is the right tone? roger?, caller: make america great again, bring jobs back to job necessary america, is donald trump going jobs?ng back his advocate nce going to of thing?ind host: talking about the trump business interests and jobs that moved overseas over the years or jobs he's created? caller: he's part of the people who outsourced jobs out of taxes to ho pays communist countries, but won't to america, tax to america. west palm beach, republican, good morning. caller: this will sound strange, most important role i think mike pence can play is to put forth christian values in

the public square and let me that.n what i mean by everybody has morality, whether it is the catholics, jewish muslims, the government, you know, you name it. is, anything that someone can agree with without being required to be a member of religion is free gain to bring to the market place of discussed. as catholic, i have a lot of strong views in there. be catholic and i like to see him start remembering some of that stuff for it and that is about it. host: what is some of that stuff, dennis? caller: thank you for asking, i appreciate that. whole, i don't s mean this in a disrespectful anner, but the homosexual agenda has to be reviewed and portions rolled back. radio show host, on one day antorum

talking about homo sexuality on polite and he was said that, you know, before we do anything, we do environmental impact studies to see how it will impact the snail or but we're ike that, going forward with this whole homosexual agenda without doing study as to how it will impact our children. he issue of abortion, every begins at nows life conception, no debate about that whatsoever. somebody like pence has to put messages out there. -- on twitter, mylan says trump needed to throw and they fell ne for it. mike pence will put business over god and has proved it. you think about that comment? we lost the caller. michael in los angeles, california, independent. michael, go ahead. yes, first off, i want to say mike pence is a good man. a good heart.

e thinks a lot with his heart, which i have to conclude also by saying, our country cannot be like a business, the way donald trump is setting it all running it like a business. this country has heart, it has a soul. i believe, at least now, for now get better, ing to that being run like a business and i think we will have i mean, down the road, instance, t take for welfare. that is a given to a lot of i feel,hat are poor and that welfare, that with new presidency, there are going to cut ople that want that down or get rid of it. that is just hypothetical. just a feeling you get. like ountry cannot be run

a business, all i have to say. thank you. lorana, texas, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. than ly thing i fear more donald trump as president is because i believe he's the mouthpiece for the eligious rights or the religious wrong who want to orce their values on everybody else. and i just disagree with that bringing that to the presidency. i don't think he can separate his values from the values of and be a -- hold host: what are those values that you think he holds that all americans don't hold? caller: i think that he is very i think he is very

anti-scien anti-science, i think he's he's ay, i think anti-anything that is not like him. think he's very rigid individual and i think he speaks was a set in motion for example, the second baptist convention put goal of setting in and the firstians local levels and then on later into the state levels and then the federal levels. their goal was to take over and see this as part of the progression and they started christian signs as coalition and when that didn't get them the votes they needed, the christian coalition sign and just ran as regular candidates. okay. a few comments from twitter on topic.

the zone writes what has joe besides being p, best impeachment insurance obama could have selected? one thing. of one otheret tweet from patrick, will be chaeney on steroids and disastrous for the country and the world. getting your comments, want to hear from viewers from indiana. pence's home tate, rob frert aurora, indiana. caller: thank you. god.ence stand up for i stand up for god. people are calling in, putting is ruler of , god this country. it is not a man, not donald god., it's if people don't get back to this country, we're doomed. to is exactly what i have say. host: robert, do you remember a time mike pence was or the about religion

role of god in his work? lost robert, eugene in miami, arizona, democrat. eugene, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: doing well, go ahead. aller: let me say this, i'm a boy.bled vet, and catholic every person ought to decide if want to be homosexual or straight. we're all children of god. don't you understand that? nd donald trump, the golden boy, he has been spoiled all his life, what does he know about days in his life? eliza bethtown, kentucky. chris, good morning. go ahead, chris. caller: yes, good morning. thanks for your show. 'm catholic, not a good catholic, but i'm conflicted on

abortion. i'd like to say, i'd like to see -- geez, unding for vasectomies, i'm sorry, vasectomies, instead of abortion. lot of peopleis a that are incarcerated right now, to pay for ford children. i think there needs to be an also think here, parents should be able to sign for their children to have it paid for byve their insurance companies. host: all right, showing viewer shots from trump tower this morning, where c-span has its camera feed. saw trump there with anye west in the lobby of trump tower. greenville, rt,

north carolina, line for independents. robert, vice president-elect, what role do you want to see mike pence play in donald trump's administration? caller: well, the only role he's to play is as soon as donald trump gets inaugurated going to be impeached and that is the whole mike pence lan and is going to step up and take over the show. completely is incompetent, unqualified, lying con man and we all know it, the whole country knows it. if mike pence has to take over, do you think he's prepared over?ke caller: he's prepared, but it will be in radical right-wing way. he's prepared. republicans just want to fwet donald trump into the white house to dump him. host: all right. the "indianapolis star" with the story out yesterday about what mike pence's last major address as indiana move or as he prepares to

to washington, d.c. n. addressing the governor's luncheon on scouting over the pence said boy scout otto, be prepared resonating more with him lately. you just never know who is going to call, pence said, referring donald trump tapping him as running mate. that motto for boy scouts about eing prepared, making sure you are the person who has quality of leadership and character, reputation and practice of commitment to excellence in all that you do, when opportunity knocks, you can open the door. mike pence from his speech over the weekend. sue is in albuquerque, new democrat. sue, good morning. caller: hi, good morning. mike ery worried about pence, first of all, i agree with the caller who said he will steroids.on concerned about women's rights. in indiana he's taken women's

back, reproductive rights. there are women in jail because they have had an abortion or miscarriage and many women are now trying to self-induce abortion because they cannot get services, cannot afford it or find abortion clinics that aren't being harassed. i think there is room for discussion, room for some kind f agreement, you know, among hard-right christians and people who don't feel the same way. know, i think mike pence needs to really back off of back, reproductive rights. there are women in jail because they have had an abortion or miscarriage and many women are now trying towomen's rights, heo back to the days of theitaliban. person.concerning i just hope people are paying attention because -- host: all right. more from the pew center survey that came out. more stat from the survey on mike pence, want to read to the viewers. hey write, there is strong partisan divide in the views on pence. 7 in 10 republicans or leaners in the survey viewed pence favorable. him f democrats viewed unfavorably. among white ge

evangelical christians two-thirds view him favorable say he is qualified to serve as president. one or two more calls in today's call. in tucson, arizona, republican, go ahead. caller: hi. to comment on donald trump. i think he will do a great job in use our country has been debt for so many years, we owe other countries money and i doing great with the immigration and i think that the being accused of hacking, how do we know russians will not retaliate? host: talking about mike pence, mike o you think about pence? aller: they should stick to donald trump and back down about donald trump. immigrations mostly and democrats pushing this, i to get ump stands trump.r and fight for

host: mariah, go ahead. "washington journal." caller: hi. i was calling because i haven't issue addressed that the people that andsurrounding donald trump u.s. should be bureaucracy, that the old testament bible should be the of the land. pence, ple like not only the onway, bannon, most of tea partiers, that is why they never compromise. god's work and god's issues cannot be compromised. host: mariah, the last caller in today's program. reminder about what is happening on c-span today. obama will be signing the 21st century cures act this fternoon, that is happening

about 2:35, we'll be showing it live on c-span and also we'll be showing jake johnson, homeland ecretary secretary interview with "washington post" david 6:00 on , live at c-span. that will do it for today's program. we'll be back tomorrow morning eastern, in the meantime, have a great tuesday. the lobbyook inside of trump tower, where donald trump continues to meet with prospective cabinet nominees