book "white rage: she argues that throughout history black progress has met with what she calls "white rage." you could join the conversation on facebook and twitter. ♪ host: good morning on this wednesday, december 20 100 a move by president obama to firm up his environmental legacy. -- wednesday, december 21. it will be up to the incoming president to determine what comes next. call this number if you are a republican. .02-748-8001 if you're a democrat,

202-748-8000 is your number. independents, 202-748-8002. you can weigh in via social .edia or post here's one of the many headlines from this story this wednesday morning. the white house indefinitely bands drilling in large parts of the arctic and atlantic. the piece calls it a victory for in my mentalists. it does face a potential legal fight. the writer of this piece is jack fitzpatrick. he joins us now by phone. good morning. guest: good morning. thank you for having me. host: explain what the president has done. exactly what he has done here and why now and where does he say he is drawing his authority from? indefinite is an

announcement that large areas in the arctic and atlantic oceans will be taken off the table for any new leases for offshore oil and gas drilling. it goes along with canada taking all of the canadian arctic waters off the table as well. it covers a huge area in the .rctic, 115 million acres the obama administration says he has the authority under a 1953 law that allows the president to take her read areas off the table for this oil and gas leases for environmental reasons. there's a question of whether this is necessarily permanent and whether other presidential administrations can undo it. the law itself does not spell

out in the ability for later presidents to change it. it also doesn't necessarily say that they can't. the environmentalists who like this decision have said there's no written ability for a president to down the road to change this decision so they after themmediately announcement yesterday, opponents of the decision said they hope the trump administration will attempt to undo this. they do come environmental groups will likely sue and this will play out in court to determine exactly whether congress's intent was to allow this to be changed on the road. host: you mentioned the reaction of groups around the country. how about from "the hill" itself? isst: the opposition

congressional republican and industry groups. -- alaska's delegation especially is unhappy about this. they've set for a long time they were concerned about the obama administration stands on arctic drilling. had expressed summer,, even over the that the obama administration would take out new leases from coveringyear plan 2017-2022 and said that would be bad for alaska's economy and the whole delegation opposes it. but this is obviously a more permanent decision which got a lot of criticism from republicans and from the oil and gas industry.

some alaskaen native groups that expressed support for the economic conditions. a lot of environmentalists support the announcement yesterday. host: it's interesting that this was coordinated with canada. how long had that been in the works and how do something like that work? it's unclear how long this was in the works. there had been talk for a while of the u.s. imposing this permanent ban. that is of the obama administration. i had not heard any groups ally calling for this. it seems to be to decisions announced on the same day. president obama and justin trudeau have wanted to work together on moving away from fossil fuels and acting on

climate change. is not an international deal under the paris agreement , but ithing like that goes hand-in-hand with earlier this year the two announced that countries' commitment to cutting natural gas. it is part of a tradition they on climate change. this is about the potential for oil spill and fossil fuel development. take us back to the court and take us back to the administration of donald trump. what will you be looking for next in those areas and when? guest: there are a couple ways

this could play out. the trump administration could just say it believes it has the ability to undo this. if they do, i expect there to be a lo lawsuit. they look back -- there's no clear precedent for this. it's notable that in the past, george w. bush actually shortened an extension of a withdrawal of this type for new leases. there's never been a case where to impose asought permanent ban and someone else just tried to undo it. opponents of this decision say george w. bush's decision to shorten an extension of a withdrawal might be relevant. there's also the possibility that there will be a lawsuit against the obama administration saying this is it legal, that

this is a much broader use and bigger swath of water than intended. case, it would fall to the trump administration to be asked to defend the rule. which it might just not do. i will be looking to see who files a lawsuit either against the obama administration or over a possible choice by trump to try to undo this. and then there will be a debate over what precedent people see and a president possibility to band like this. -- a previous decision to impose a ban like this. host: thank you for the information this morning. a bit of context from "the new york times. ." the move considered creative by supporters and abusive by opponents. one of the many efforts by mr.

obama to protect what environmental policies he can from his successor who has vowed to roll them back. first called this morning, james from illinois. republican line. caller: good morning. i think there will be litigation on both sides of the aisle.

it will take a few years or so. i don't think it will stand. it seems a little far reach, overreaching. that's the way he's always been, against big oil. when he first come into office, he touted out he was going to go into alternative energy. we haven't really got to do that and that hasn't flown. if you've noticed come ever since hillary lost the election, oil prices are starting to shoot up. $40 a barrel to well over $50 and it will keep shooting up. i wonder what that has to do with hillary losing the election. i have a feeling there's two reasons for that. one of them is to kill off the fracking industry in the united states. i wonder what the other reason is for. that is curious.

what is that other reason? we must think about this as a nation. why is the other reason the price the last several years has been really low under obama? i'm really curious about that. republicans, call 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, your number is 202-748-8002. we look forward to hearing from you. some immediate reaction from congress yesterday. saysmerkley of oregon offshore drilling equals the height of irresponsibility. thanks, president, for protecting the atlantic and the arctic. senator ted cruz weighed in as well.

yet another obama abuse of power, he writes. here's a bit of reaction on facebook. -- democratsts s --liberty write bill king says -- -- jeffrey here

while we wait for more of your calls to come in, a bit more background, a bit more context from "the new york times" piece. it is not unusual for presidents to be seized by a sense of urgency in their final week s of office. last week, the administration issued a final rule to bar states from withholding federal family planning funds from planned parenthood affiliates.

the "wall street journal" this morning is offering this. "obama to restrict offshore drilling."

more reaction in "the washington

times." live from pennsylvania. independent caller. i was just hearing about this this morning. my only objection would be the word "permanent." i'm 70 years old and i learned a long time ago nothing in this world as per minute. someday, the president will also learn that nothing is permanent. -- nothing in this world is permanent. host: you expect something down

the line from the president or the courts? caller: i hate to go through that stuff all the time -- i don't know what would have been the difference if you just let the word "permanent" out of it. host: al is in upper marlboro maryland. thank you for c-span thank you for taking my comment this morning. talk about the necessity of continuing to harvest the resources available to our country. important for's us to build a sustainable industry that will allow us to use these resources in our own country as they provide dual purposes for generators and for that needstries different products that oil producers. it's important for us to develop this resource for exporting

to other countries. driving sustainable jobs in this industry. -- thegard to oil generators that will drive electric grid. we have to integrate these resources into the grid. couple oilects already has developed its purpose on the grid. as we develop more renewable resources like battery storage andnatural gas, solar, wind even inertia will generator resources and also the penetration now of rooftop solar , distributed energy resources that eventually oil and coal reduce themselves to a very unique purpose and take care of

its own issue with regards to pollution. host: robert has been waiting from little rock. republican caller. say that just want to hydroelectric generators should be put on every dam and the essence of america. states -- in the united states of america. now going to go to north carolina where there's big news being made this week. c.orgis the story at wun website for north carolina public radio. aspecial session to consider repeal of something called hb , which has been making a ton of news ever since it was enacted. joining us on the phone is the co-author of this piece, david

dewitt of north carolina public radio. hb2 is, whatwhat it actually does. what is happening in the legislature this week? is short for house bill 2. it was passed earlier this year. it is commonly known as the bathroom bill. was in reaction to a charlotte city ordinance that extended some rights to lgbt individuals, specifically the right for people to choose the bathroom that they wanted to use , the public facility. hb2 was passed by the general assembly saying people must choose the bathroom indicated on their birth certificate. the gender is indicated there. that set off a lot of protests. people, entertainers, the ncaa, the acp removed events from the

state. it was quite an economic impact. fast forward to this week -- it also affected the election in north carolina. it looks like the charlotte city withil has made a deal some individuals in the general assembly and the incoming governor. they rescinded their ordinance and now, the general assembly today will take up a repeal of hb2. special session of the general assembly work in north carolina to do something like this? guest: we've become very accustomed to it this year. this is the fifth special session. the most that anybody can remember. there have been one or two most years. or not. this year, the general us and we has called special sessions for a variety of reasons. this was called by the governor.

does so because he wants to and sometimes like this, he calls it because he is forced to politically. he said he would call a special session earlier this year at the charlotte city council rescinded its ordinance. then come a special session is called and all the lawmakers in the country or available come back on short notice. the plan is to deal with one specific issue. .n this case, it is hb2 we did have a special session last week that dealt with specific issue. last week was disaster relief. lawmakers will introduce new bills and new things will happen. last week, it was supposed to be just about disaster relief and whitepublicans passed sweeping legislation that took some powers from the incoming democratic governor.

legislation.ing will there be some other things introduced today? host: tell us about the role of the government elect in all this. more about the move in the state outside the legislature. we've been reading about protests on both sides of the issue. the role of the incoming who is currently serving as attorney general, we know he talked to some charlotte city council members in advance of their rescinding of the ordinance. he talked to some of the key votes. they have said that on the record. beyond that, we don't know a lot about whether he has made a deal or had conversations with leadership in the general assembly. that is not a particularly positive relationship. particularly in the light of last week when they took powers away from the incoming governor.

that is not a great relationship heading into the new year or heading into his swearing in ceremony. it is not unlike a lot of states where there's a lot of contention between the parties. here, that has manifested itself , moralt of protests monday protests but mostly by the north carolina naacp. --seem the general assembly we have seen hundreds of thousands of people to send the state capital. descend on the state capital. they are basically sentence. we don't know if there will be hundreds or thousands, but we expect quite a number of people to be in the general us ugly building today. host: what else should we know? -- in the general assembly building today. guest: the charlotte city council has called a meeting for

9:00 a.m. we expect that to be about clearing up some of the confusion havin heading into the special session. some of the general us family members were worried that the charlotte city council only rescinded parts of their ordinance. they will clear that up at 9:00 to try to smooth some of those waters for what begins at 10:00 , taking it up.l that the possible general assembly may see this opportunity to try to do something else unexpected. that has happened in the past with voter id, gerrymandering bills, other reasons. so, nothing is off the table. host: david dewitt, thank you for your time. and the insight into the hb2

repeal in north carolina. we appreciate it. guest: my pleasure. have a great morning. host: we will take a short break and then come back with our guest segment. ,p first will be kevin chavous the former d.c. city councilmember who is now with the american federation for children. council there. we will talk to him about education policy and the trump administration. later in the program, carol anderson, author of "white rage." and walks through a history of race relations in this country. we will take more of your calls as well. we will be right back. ♪

>> this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, saturday , architectural historian barry lewis talks about the construction of the brooklyn bridge, why manhattan needed the bridge and how it transportation -- how transportation in the city changed. >> when the brooklyn bridge was opened, it did not put the ferries out of business. the fairies were still running at capacity. mid-1890's, brooklyn had reached one million people. real interesting thing about country music.

it is the music of poor white people. people who are privileged to be white but also people who are underprivileged. in terms of their class identity and economic opportunities. the: kotten syler on emerging definitions of whiteness and blackness in colonial america and how it impacted the origins of country music. sunday afternoon at 4:00 on real america -- >> budget cutbacks and a tangle of state and local administrative problems on the new year post horizon crated evidence that this crusade against society's greatest enemies may be slowed. this was the climate, the land and the unfinished task that faced lyndon johnson in 1966. the film documents the final month of the year of president -- awardinghnson

the medal of water to a marine who fought in vietnam and celebrating the holidays with his family at his texas ranch. hazel, authoram of "madam president." woodrow wilson's second wife buffered access to the president as he recovered from a massive stroke in 1919. for our complete american history tv schedule, go to www.c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our guest now is kevin chavous, executive council for the american federation for children, former d.c. city councilman. thank you for joining us this morning. guest: good to be with you. talk aboute here to the trump administration and education policy. a great place to start as the president-elect'd selection of -- resident elect -- the

president-elect's selection of betsy devos. guest: i am a founding board member. betty helped found the organization with me. athink she is going to be hidden star indian ministration. unfortunately, she cannot speak for herself right now. -- a hidden star in the administration. she will build consensus. she is a collaborator by nature. i read the things people were saying -- she likes reaching across the aisle. in the work we've done in various states across the country, she's done a terrific job of reaching out to democrats , trying to formulate the right approach to building school choice that works for jurisdictions in which we do business. i think betsy will do a good job. host: we will put the phone numbers at the bottom of the screen.

republicans can call 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. we started by talking about betsy devos. we will play a two-minute clip from the american federation for teachers talking about her take os situation.dev [video clip] >> she has done everything in her power to destroy public education. i will give you three examples. , she and her2000's husband who were very wealthy put ballot initiatives on the ballot in michigan to have vouchers instead of public schools or in lieu of public schools. it went down by a two to one

vote. rather than listening to the will of the people, she decided to actually try to use the legislature to do that as well. when therecession governor tried to work with the republican senate to delay a tax cut for the wealthy so they could fund public schools, betsy devos used her clout to stop that, to thwart that. when everyone in detroit tried to save the detroit public change the system but create accountability for both charters and the public schools, betsy davos once again after the senate bill was passed used her considerable clout to stop it, using a #e yet increased

the funding for schools back to where they were in 2008. we are asking our public schools to do more and more to deal with critical thinking and creativity, ensuring that kids have the skills and knowledge they need for their lives. what she has done in the last 20 years is everything she can to destabilize and defund them. host: strong words there.

betsy davos wants to destroy public education. there? you want to react guest: context is important. one thing that the union is good at is demagoguery and whoever the secretary of education's. one thing they said about arne duncan was that he was destroying what it meant to teach and learn. they called for his resignation. they did not like john king. they opposed his nomination. looksng or anyone that the status quo they will come out against. also called betsy and i you like. she is an ideologue. so when my. canelieve public education work for all kids. ideologue.etsy an she is an ideologue.

so am i. we are falling behind internationally. betsy's record in michigan with one we should be proud of. that's was one we should be proud of. the dropout rates for african-american and white boys in detroit was over 80%. eight out of 10 of every male attending high school in detroit dropped out. create options for parents that worked for them. the centerpiece of school choice is not destroy public education. it is a rightsizing it, making it better and putting power in the hands of parents and giving them quality options to help kids in need. one of the things we are proud is that we are able to respond to the sense of urgency that so many parents have.

it is a shame that we have places, cities in america where we have the kids of color dropping out and the status quo says just wait for us anyone who has a child says we cannot wait to fix our schools. and the union,n that is typical political response. they don't like anyone speaking about change. host: our guest is the founder of democrats for education reform. kevin chavous is a former d.c. city councilmember. let's get to calls. alice from delaware, ohio. you are of first. good morning. ofler: i have a couple points i would like to make. schools, iharter if most people

realize they are for-profit. here in ohio, charter schools have really not done well. in 1960. teaching and became a member of the union, of course. that has nothing to do with the education system as far as i lady who iss her for-profith i just got time magazine and they have an article in here and she even , "i simply can't see the point. they are right. we do expect things in return." she and her family have put

millions and billions of dollars into their points of view. it scares me that our country has to we are better than that. host: thank you for calling. what sheat is not said, what she said is not really true. most charter schools are not for profit. the red question we should be discussing is if parents have -- right now, there are one million kids on waiting lists for charter schools. hundreds of thousands of families looking for gray options. there are great traditional public schools. one thing we have seen when you have robust school choice scholarships or charter schools or online education therings, it encourages

traditional public schools. i appreciate the collar and i want to thank you for teaching our kids. if you taught at a traditional school, there are far too many schools and far too many teachers now working for kids. we cannot afford to continue the downward slide we are seeing in so many far schools. one other thing, a lot of the hype around betsy and her family and the money they may spend to promote educational choice, these folks have real compassion. her husband and her started in aviation charter school in grand rapids. for kids who want to learn all flying and being able to maneuver around the airport industry and had tremendous success. i think context is really important. a weekwashington post" ago wrote about charter schools and connecting them. they write the advocates on the

left, michigan is a prime example of her house not -- of how not to promote charter schools. guest: i think the charter school movement, like all educational offering entities in k-12 space, can be improved. one thing betsy has advocated for his greater accountability. and look, a better charter school should close. in a d.c., why we've had success in the charter movement i've help to promote is will the closed charter schools.

right now, we have nearly 1500 schoolss, traditional where most of the kids will drop out. they have been bad for years. people in these jurisdictions try to reform them, change them, but nobody talked about replacing them or shutting them down. going to put accountability in place that works for parents and we're talking about shutting down bad charter or choice schools, we need to consider doing the same. atn people talk about close traditional public schools, it is difficult. the better course of action is to expand the choice offerings, so that parents know they have options beyond their traditional school that may or may not be working. neededica, education, we to pay more expensively than constrictive in our thinking. that's what the rest of the world is doing. we are not doing it. we want to be myopic about k-12

education. host: more calls for kevin chavous on education. a couple of facts and figures. 25 states, plus washington dc, that have enacted school choices. more than 1.9 billion and dedicated funding for voucher scholarship funding, test programs. nearly 400,000 students are in private school choice. we hear from david from madison heights, michigan, it independent color. caller: thank you for taking my call. as we are speaking, i am getting my boots on. you are laying it on a real sick. that's a davos but a failure in our public education in michigan. you know what and i know it. she is a bad choice for any kind of education.

couple ofe a billionaires. host: david, what are you pointing to specifically? to the they are taking charter schools, they are private schools and trying to get them to say they are a public school. no, they are not. they fail, each and every one of them. she has destroyed the public education of michigan. that's the bottom line. my boots are on. i wish you would tell the viewers the real truth about michigan schools. she has destroyed the public education in michigan. host: let's get a response. guest: a lot to put on one person that they destroyed public education. betsy do not create the environment where 80% of the boys are dropping out. she did not create an environment in where we allowed for neglect in urban and rural public schools. to bleed over in our economy.

there are strong feelings on this. we had this kind of nostalgic and sentimental view of public education, the red brick schoolhouse couple first school, going to the prom. there is this real healthy american attachment to what public education means. way i do.sy feels the we do not want to destroy that memory, we want to build on it. many other great schools part of that sentimentality we all hold, they are no longer great. but, they can be. there is a mission we want to pub schools and privatize education and that is not the case. what we want to do as studies have shown, where you have increase and broad-based for choice options, the school district gets the better. let me give you an example about d.c.

when we started charter schools in the late 1990 90's, 1990's, we were trying to push reform in public schools and that do not work. i gave them 300 million new dollars over a three-year period and0 million new dollars 10,000 fewer kids and the output went down. cuthe same token because we up eruption in the charter system, they did very well. i became a true believer their choice does matter. we did our scholarship program. in that program where you had over the last 10 years, 6000 schools andrivate they are all doing well. 90% graduation rate and college going rate. that robust and broad-based choice, the most was led to d.c.

public schools getting better. tice henderson who left, she will tell you because of the look ation, because what they are doing over here with those options, it to destroy the one-size-fits-all we see in most cities. to deal withfort the short-term and long-term. short-term is the need to really help parents who feel trapped because the school in their neighborhood may not work. it providesm is incentives for the local school districts to get better. people who should look at where it is taking place should use as an example. let'sless go to herbie -- go to herbie. caller: passing the buck, passing the blame like privatizing prisons, it is more

expensive then you cannot hold them accountable to what they could do to individuals. spend the same amount of money on house and then send the kid. that would be, we can hold the government more responsible than what to say charter schools or private companies. guest: the -- you mention the prison situation. we are trying to stop the school to prison pipeline. when i visited our local jail, over 90% of our inmates were high school dropouts. even today, accog to t , about 80% of our prison population are high school dropouts was 82%. many from our cities and rural communities. the only way to stop that is to make sure we not wait on the ,chool, the school district

that could take years. we have had reforms and efforts in these jurisdictions for the last 20, 25 years. in a d.c., they had reform efforts before i got there. aseras were coming to me saying, what am i going to do about my child who has to go to the public school? take care of parents and kids' needs today. i am proud of the fact that with the school choice offering we have been able to develop in some of these jurisdictions, we have now broken that tied all school to prison pipeline. it does put a stranglehold on some of her communities. support forf his charter schools, would you know about president-elect trump's broader platform on education and what you think of it? guest: it is to be determined. if you talked about school choice, somebody does something

i embrace. i do not support donald trump for president. i was very concerned about his racial intolerance and some of the rhetoric. i do believe that seat will help a lot to betsy will help a lot -- betsy will help a lot because she will help the president-elect reach across the aisle. i think she will be promoting innovation and creativity and that will be something that incentivizes it that. online learning and personalized instruction, that is where the world is headed. you will see if both in those areas. i think it is to be determined. i do expect and i am glad to see frankly that school choice will be front and center. host: your names out there for potential educational secretary. what you said about your initial concern for mr. trump, could you see yourself working with him? guest: i can see myself working directly with mrs. devos.

i was so proud of president obama. i was on his educational policy committee when he ran the first time. i think he did a lot to move the ball forward and he supported charter school and private school scholarships and i'm disappointed he did not promote our d.c. scholarship program. i think he set a tone for change that is needed. i am proud he said we have to all support this. that is our democracy. i do not support donald trump for president, but i am proud as americans we need to rally around him. , they said when my name say you should not be associated with him because of who he is. engine every day, every 42 seconds, a kid jobs out of school. my life's work is centered around this notion we need to stop those dropout numbers. and for me, i feel a sense of duty as an american who -- to

work with whoever is president and whoever is education secretary to make sure we intend that amazingly -- and that amazingly bad statistic of allowing children to drop out. host: let's hear from editing in pennsylvania. independent caller for kevin chavous. caller: thank you. is aerstand mrs. devos dedicated christian, calvinist, do we american people have good reason to expect she knows the healthy separation of church and state and keeps god out of our public education system? thank you. guest: that is a great question. a lot has been written about betsy wouldstie -- oppose our christian values. i have worked closely with her and now what has she talked to me about christian values being

imposed on public education. what she talked to me about more than anything is how we can in power parents -- empower parents in a power ring paris is really key. when i say empowering parents,, will parents know what works for their kids educationally? -- empowering parents is really key. range ofe a whole options for them to pick from so that it works for their kids. if you have more than one child, you know that they are different. and so, this notion that she will try to impose her will on the contrary, i do not think that is going to happen at all. i do think you will see her and hear her talk more about putting power in the hands of parents. and given them options that were

for their kids. host: back to donald trump. something to say in the post, democrats for education reform and the rights that face of the position he has taken, president-elect trump's administration will -- your reaction? group,i found that the democrats for education. you know what i think has been the biggest barrier to educating each and every american child over the last 30 years? politix. the nature of politics in america has been a problem to teaching and learning. withtunately, you see that the statement and even hear that from some of the caller's. people put party identification

ahead of what is best for kids. i think we need to rise above the politics of the day and to do what is best for our kids. givetell folks who i speeches to, there's no republican or democrat away to teach a kid to read, write, or account. if you listen to the union and certainho promote partisan issues on both sides of the ohio, they say this is the republican education plan and the democrat plan. when i will like to see what i will urge betsy to do is less embrace building a national obsession around learning. less inspire kids to want to learn instead of telling them they need to learn. let us get beyond the politics of the day or the partisanship because my candidate lost, i cannot work with the other side. especially when the biggest threat is not some outside force coming into our country and

killing us, our biggest threat is the threat from within when you have 82% of our prison population dropout and more more kids graduating or not ready. if we can build some national consensus, if the trump administration can do that in reach across the aisle and find common ground and make education more for all, i think that should help us rise above the politics. host: back to the phones. helen for kevin chavous. thank you for waiting. caller: thank you. i would like to say one other they love our children, they love the school they want to go there and they will not let them go. the student is falling behind. it is not good for us. saidhe other thing, he

[inaudible] republicans, we are not going to a great with anything obama says. no one writes about that. it is wrong. thank you. host: mr. chavous? wayt: i think that the quality options can work for parents is one to make sure that consumers. educated and i think, a lot of times when i talk about school choice and parent empowerment, people say the powers not just the kids, the problems with the parents. your generation on top of generation of parents who do not not exercise school choice. i hear people say parents do not have the wherewithal to exercise school choice. what we have seen will we credit school choice programs and i

would like to see bessie paul more money aside for this, we train the trainers -- i will like to see betsy put more money aside for this, we train the trainers. we have parent workshops so they know how to evaluate schools and evaluate teachers. what is our most challenged communities, there does need to be more information curve so they can exercise power of choice. choice is the nature of responsibility. schools can be intimidating particularly if you cannot read or have education yourself. there's a lot we can do to make sure that choice works for all particularly if we empower parents that they have the skill set necessary to exercise and that empowerment. host: par rental involvement does parental involvement. how do you a, should that -- how do you will come push that?

busy parents. a lot separated? how do you do that? think that, again, take out the discussion of just choice in and of itself. a whole couldt as do a better job of parent engagement. communities,eform when reid took over d.c. and had great ideas. at the bottom of the list is parent engagement. i think -- and that the front of the list. and i also think that the problem we have in american a public education when we talk about engaging parents is always talk to down. it needs to be bottom up. one thing we did in new orleans when we had a scholarship bill passed, we want to public housing and working with the council and found leaders in the community, trusted voices, influence and trained the trainers and made is p or two p. -- peer to peer.

i can walk into these communities with my suit and they will drown me out. but, the best way to engage parents is through people they trust in, people they their communities. i think as a whole and something betsy should consider, need to figure out the best way to do grassroots parent engagement army to help train parents to be able to exercise their responsibility to pick the right school for their children, to be advocates for their parents and when that happens, one quick thing. zone,arlem children's they do an amazing job of muchng parents engaged so sort you have many parents going back to get their ged's. i think as opposed to education of being either or box, either you are for public schools or

for private schools or charter schools, either you are republican or democrat, we should not have an education approach where people have to pick sides. let's say empower parents, was when inspire people to want to learn, even parents, they will go back and get their ged. , it isemocratic caller ellis. good morning. caller: good morning. a nice tie you have on mr. chavous. guest: thank you. caller: the right colors. my question is more in the mechanics of operating these public schools. florida,rly here in the people here in florida do not have enough -- we are not educated here in florida. when you come to the tax base and talking about private schools as opposed to public schools, i am thinking that the

funding is going to be -- we should not pay taxes because a major portion of my taxes, my county taxes, was for public schools this year. if you are going to convert them all to private schools, why should i have to pay taxes to support private schools? when i had a nobody educated in the set of florida? -- in the state of florida? you're going down a slippery slope in terms of the funding public schools. so somebody has to look at the mechanics of it. i hold that thought all the way through. host: a reaction from mr. chavous. that: one of the things people needed to be clear about, we're not talking about privatizing public education. lion's share, was of our

kids will be educated in the traditional public setting. when you mention florida, one thing that the trump administration, under betsy's leadership may consider is looking at what florida has done with the florida tax credit scholarship program. this is the heart of the caller's question. under their program, nearly 100,000 kids who are able to attend private schools based on corporate donations, corporations receive a tax credit. a wildly successful program. two things happened. one is, they are able to get low income kids. working-class, free, reduced lunch, these kids in challenged schools and they go to private schools that it is based on programe dollars in the is wildly successful.

the kids are doing well. third luther king the supports it. the other thing that happens which a lot of people do not realize is that those schools where the kids have come from, those kids are doing better. you have taken kids from some of the most challenged schools and put them in an environment that works for them. you exercise parent choice. the kids left behind, those kids are doing better. with had a northwestern study on that. -- we have had a northwestern study on that. none of it is on the public dime. i think that is a model that we are going to be looking at, hopefully, betsy will look at around the country. i understand a lot of people feel really angst about public dollars, spending all of this money on the notion we will privatize and that is not what we want to do. husband a couple of -- host: a

couple of tweets for you -- great question. the deep, dark, dirty secret, most of our public schools are sliding somewhat and that is why we see the challenge in terms of comparisons around the world of other industrialized nations. it is true is that a lot of our urban schools are fading. another deep, dark, dirty secret is our rural schools are not as well. that is sort of this one size fits all saying where we are used are doing that the same thing to the same way, the same approach. that was born of the industrial revolution. systeme to three school for the agricultural model. even some resolve so they could harvest.

this is virtually unchanged for 150 years. that contributed since there were a couple of wars, we areogy revolution and still doing at the same way. outer brick in the night. it has not changed. in thefor -- algebra ninth grade. , i think theunding funding formulas are really helping benny states and as they do need to be addressed. while we are waiting to fix that , state legislatures, that is a long process, almost like additional school reforms and this is where choice can help incentivize it and help kids today and help reform the system. host: an interesting question from twitter and a very broad question -- guest: a great question.

one answer is in the vocational education space. i think that is why you see president obama and even president-elect trump has talked a little bit about vocational education. when people develop skills, even if the system has failed them, they're able to write side their lives. we need to do a better job in terms of broad-based school choice offerings is creating a more of these vocational options. we can do these are creative ways and the charter movement. host: one last call. louis, republican. good morning. i want to thank mr. chavous for what he is doing. you are doing a great job in the right thing. the charter school thing is the way to go. i think, for example, in colorado, if somebody were to

put to their put children in school, they was exactly why these charter schools are needed so parents can send their kids where they want to better their education. it is all about the kids. thank you again, mr. chavous, and keep up the good work. host: final thoughts on where the new administration is going to be headed? guest: i want to thank the caller. i am hopeful. i think as our current president said, it is time for a to come together. that we not create an republican education agenda or democratic education agenda but we reach across the aisle and build aroundl conversation learning. national pride around education. i think betsy devos can help us. i will do all i care to not only

support her but our country so we can get rid of the statistics or so men of our children are lost. -- so many virtual job loss. as the centerpiece. host: kevin chavous is a former d.c. member and is currently existing council of the american federation for children. federationforchildren.org isn't the website. thanks for coming on. we will take another short timeout and talk with professor carol anderson of emory university. she's written a book titled "white rage: the unspoken truth of our racial divide." andill go through that book take more of your calls. we will be right back.

announcer: this week, tonight at 8:00, former vice president dick cheney and leon panetta on the feature of the defense department. >> i think the challenges are very great and we have unfortunately over the course of the last many years done serious damage to our capabilities to bed to meet those threats. there were a lot of flashpoints. a new administration will have to look at that kind of world and obviously defined policy that we need in order to deal with that.

and then, develop the defense policy to confront at that. announcer: thursday, and look at the career of vice president elect mike pence. >> of missing the shifting sands, will stood without apology for the sanctity of life, the importance of marriage and the freedom of religion. ,nnouncer: on friday night farewell speeches and tributes to several outgoing senators including harry reid, barbara boxer, kelly ayotte and dan coats. this week in prime time on c-span. announcer: sunday, in-depth will feature a live discussion of barack obama. we're taking your phone calls and tweaks. -- and tweets.

princeton university professor. and police are winning -- pulitzer prize-winning author. watch in-depth from noon until 3:00 on sunday on book tv on c-span. journal": "washington continues. host: our guest is carol anderson at emory university in atlanta, correct? professor anderson is author of this book, entitled "white rage: the unspoken truth of our racial divide." and the book in a part stems from an op-ed you wrote a couple of years ago at the time of ferguson and the headline of that piece, we will show it to our audience. you said ferguson is not about black rage against cops, it is

white rage against progress. take those terms, black rage and white rage and put those in context. guest: it was during ferguson win -- win of the protests are happening, fire industry and all of that and all the pundits, regardless what ideological msnbc, fox, they're all talking about black rage. lack people beingfth election ad

the 2012 election, african-americans came out in record numbers to vote.

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