promod haque: i was going to ask you -- virginia rometty: like tokyo mitsubishi, msg, any kind of contract between two parties we and walmart are doing good

safety with blockchain in china on pork where they have had issues, and that is what this is about. it will be going pretty soon. promod haque: let's talk about security, cyber security, there is a huge investment area for corporations, enterprises, venture companies. farms like ourselves and even corporations like yourself has

spent a lot of money on cyber security and so on. how do you see the landscape, how do you see cognitive computing impacting this? virginia rometty: how many of you spend time on the topic of cyber? almost everybody that runs the company. i do it from running a company perspective and obviously it does not matter, every day, because the bad guy gets smarter, so we are all doing something. to us, it is a business as well. we are the largest security -- largest enterprise security company out there. the secret of it, i think, you will not be surprised, this is a world so complex on this topic, you have to assume whatever you do, the bad guy is in already and therefore, the answer will be related to you will not be surprised, some sort of massive real-time analytics where you are constantly looking for something slightly astray, whether that is in data, in a flow relationships, , behavior, trade surveillance, whatever it is. so the future is going to be

one, you can put a cloud in, because they are more standard, they are more secure. we need it in this country, and we did get legislature, still needs to get through the senate, to have sharing, because the good guys have got to band together to fight the bad guys. so if you share, you have got to do it knowing you will not be liable. you have got to be able to do it without a penalty. so our government, there were through the house of representatives some from very good legislation on information sharing. now it needs to get through the senate. i am hopeful it does before the year, before the congress goes out. that is the kind of second part, this collaboration piece, but the third is the part all of us, i think, in my best analogy, it is to think of it like an immune system and how security will run. all of us have germs, and what does it do? if germs act up, the immune

and --goes to court cordon it off.-- that is how you have got to run it. you find it, wall it off to a does not affect everything else, that he goes to the next level, and it is a fantastic analogy, because that is why the cdc and who got created for health. what does the centers for disease control or the world health -- if there is an outbreak in one place, quick, distribute information, stop it so it does not get to other countries. it is no different as a cyber attack. we have got to follow that work. so you will continue to see companies pop up. we do it. we have watson for cyber security and i think that goes live first quarter. you can't find enough

professionals in your company. forget that part of it. i think there is something like 80,000 security blogs a month written. i mean, really? and then to be able to know which even to apply to you, that is the kind of thing i think is the future for security. so for -- if you are investing in companies that are -- like we are all around, by the way, that was our approach as well. we put a foundation in so people can write stuff using our data. promod haque: for myself personally, we have been very involved in the whole cyber security space for many years. we have close to 15 active companies in the space today. i think that is the way we see, you know, machine intelligence, artificial learning, artificial intelligence, and so on coming in. virginia rometty: i do think the hard part will be -- part of the problem is the average client has 80 products from 40 vendors. promod haque: i agree.

virginia rometty: that is like putting a different alarm company on every door in your house. promod haque: you have got to look at this whole cyberspace and you have threat actors on one hand, then people trying to defend, and is a risk because the threat actors are state-sponsored, left funded and other ways. literally, they are not sitting there. there is no innovation going on, and in fact one of the things we are seeing is the conventional means of cyber security in the past, things like antivirus detection and incident response, but newer stuff that came out, you have got sandboxes, right, and you sort of put the traffic in the sandbox and see what goes on, but what has happened is threat actors figure out

how sandboxes work and they have figured out a way to evade sandboxes. you have got malware that is in there, totally bypassing sandboxes and with a certain amount of latency, it goes to a certain amount of power. and the amount of information, as you pointed out, signatures that are created today, thousands and thousands of signatures, and that is where cognitive computing comes in. you learn from it, it keeps learning and keeps adapting and it figures out what is going on, and provides a bunch of insight. i think -- and then it augments the security experts that are sitting there, so you don't eliminate them, but you give them the ability. it is hard otherwise to look at, oh my goodness, i have 1000 blogs or incidents, how do i make sense of all of that? the ability to use machine

learning to be able to draw insights out of that and keep learning -- virginia rometty: this is the reason why you can't over regulate this area. we have been participating, trying to get healthy regulation. if you over regulate, we are so busy filling out over regulation forms, the bad guys know what we are working on. that is a real issue. and the other part, has everyone had a chance to see what the dark web really is? promod haque: scary. virginia rometty: if you haven't, i am serious, we in fact just opened at something called the cyber range. i think it is the only real one of its kind, first of its kind, cyber range. it has got all of these -- i don't even know how to describe how it is hermetically sealed, but in there is the dark web. it will take clients in, you realize what this is, you can

buy anything for anything. it is very organized, extremely professional. it is hierarchies. there are organizations perfectly set up, service level agreements on anything you need to get. i can guarantee this credit card will work five times before it does not work. it is worth if you do not understand it, to see it. it just gives you a tiny glimpse of the commercial side of the dark web, not even the worst side of what you are up against. if you do that, you understand why this is the answer -- the answer to this is around analytics in your company more than anything. promod haque: it is amazing, and this is the perfect example of cyber security where you augment the capabilities of the human being, machine learning and all of the, you know, cognitive analysis and so on, allows someone who is a cyber expert sitting there, it

increases the productivity. it allows them to be more effective and productive. and especially, you know, as you move forward even these days, five years out, you know, there is a challenge with respect to finding the right skill sets. virginia rometty: there is a big problem. we have to do this for that reason alone. promod haque: so therefore, the ability to augment the productivity of the existing workforce that one might have, and to be able to increase their productivity is a big thing. virginia rometty: the estimate for open security jobs is one million. promod haque: it is huge. that is where machine learning and cognitive computing, augmenting existing technologies and augmenting, you know, the human that is sitting there making decisions and so on, just a huge, huge opportunity for cost savings as well as, you

know, jobs that need to get done. virginia rometty: he has a lot of pages left in front of him. i am not sure where this is going. [laughter] promod haque: ginny, you have been involved at ibm, you have seen many, many phases of technologies and innovation that have happened over the years, how companies and societies get transformed and businesses have to transform. over the years, ibm has done a great job. talk a little bit about looking to the future, transformation of businesses, whether it is, you know, customers or humans transforming, what ibm is doing. virginia rometty: you have learned a lot, too. promod haque: i have. virginia rometty: i want him to share -- i will answer, but i want him to share -- i found a fascinating list of things he said about which kind of

companies make it and don't make it. i don't know if you remember, but you will have time while i talk. so back to what, lessons learned or observations, maybe? because i guess, one, sometimes people say to me, what would you advise a young company or -- and i sat there and thought, i think we would probably all say it may be some of the same -- same things i would say about my self so it does not matter. i look, we are 105 years old. anybody with companies in that circa for that era? anybody in the room? that would make me. ok. [laughter] we are 105. and you have had time and i have had time to reflect on this, we

were in the middle of this and 105 inion now tech. the competitors when i started where -- were cr, unisis, honeywell -- and they are around, but not part of the industry anymore. promod haque: deck. virginia rometty: ok, just three of us remember. but they are gone. so my point, there is a different set of lessons to transcend multiple eras because , other companies, you can make it through one or two, but there is something else about 4, 5 and six. as i thought back and as a team, if we thought about ibm and the lessons we have learned that he -- you make it through these, and you leave some of them, others go through. they are different. i think we are the only one that

has made it through multiple eras of technology. there are a couple of things that weekly i always bring back to my mind. one is the idea that know what dure and what- en must change. i am reminded of it, because people say what is ibm now? what are you? to me, the thing that has stayed constant, what we are is solutions to society and business's most challenging issues. promod haque: correct. virginia rometty: that one thing stayed constant. that idea of not defining yourself as a product, even though we have talked about watson, but if we come back in 25 years it will be something else. the lesson of do not define yourself as a product. if you define yourself as a solution it will free you to do

other things. the other piece would be, and i know this is hard, do not protect your past. i think back even in my tenure, we have divested over $8 billion of businesses, 50 acquisitions, spent on average 6% of all of our revenue in rnd every year. the idea that you have to let go of some things is a hard thing, but if you don't then you will ride them down. then you cannot change, it is too late. so this idea of do not protect your past, but even for a young company, right? this is changing fast. that would be my second lesson learned. in my third is one that i have actually talked a lot about and i think it is true and interesting at this point in time, it is true for people, companies and countries, this

thought that growth and comfort never coexist. promod haque: right. virginia rometty: you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable to be able to live through these. promod haque: change is always threatening. virginia rometty: it is. and even if you shut your eyes, assuming they are not already shut. [laughter] you shut your eyes and you think about when in life did you learn the most? it was probably a time when you were at risk for something or put at risk. i think companies and people have to get used to that feeling of being really uncomfortable and i think to me it is a very almost soothing feeling to know that when you are really nervous about something, you are really learning something at that time. that a channeling of energy whether you are a person , or country or company, the -- those would be the enduring

lessons. and we are still moving through things. but firmly, firmly now this era of us being a cognitive solution in the cloud company, that is here. promod haque: that is true. we have seen that having funded a lot of companies, companies that get too comfortable with the status quo and do not want to change because it is threatening, they do not last. virginia rometty: sometimes it sneaks up on you. promod haque: and at the rate of innovation is a lot faster. virginia rometty: there is no doubt. promod haque: therefore the lifecycle of products is shorter than it used to be. it used to be 10 years. you could design something and sell it for 10 years, now the pace of innovation is so high and so fast, it becomes obsolete a lot faster. virginia rometty: many people use it as a buzzword "agile."

we spend a lot of time, any of us that run businesses, you need to think about how you do work, because that innovation cycle that is so fast, it cannot just be for a little company it must , be for big companies too, this idea that you co-locate people, that you have multidisciplinary teams, you do it in a big firm as well. i have probably moved -- i think we as a team have about a billion dollars of real estate projects going on and you have to reconfigure workspaces and bring different skills together. we are probably one of the largest agile development in the world. promod haque: i think it is time to open it for some questions from the audience. virginia rometty: my health care guy i think. , promod haque: we have a microphone back there. someone. there we go. virginia rometty: i hope he was agreeing with me. [laughter] i cannot see him from here. >> can you hemi ok?

ok?an you hear me i am really fascinated by this vision. but i am also really scared. i'm not concerned about jobs in 15 years, i am scared at some point a.i., or cognitive technology, will try to come for -- conquer the world. the question is, what we're doing now in security to prevent this kind of development? virginia rometty: this is, there is a couple of ways to answer it. there is misconception about the topic. answerff, for ai, i will two ways. i told you the goal, man and machine. it starts with the approach you take to it. second, the technology for self learning at massive scale do not exist today. so the state-of-the-art that these are taught, these machines

are taught, the services, they are taught. this is between man and these systems, these are statistical algorithms that you teach. this is not something that self learns and does away with you. these are taught. the second part of the thing is, back to my comment about the business model for data and it is important to know that you own your data and the ip from that. that is an important point. instead of focusing all of that in two places in the world, that is not the world i want to live in, i want to live in diversity. i think that kind of business model helps that issue as well. promod haque: great. any other questions? ok, right there. >> what do you think about -- i'm sorry, what do you think

about the neocortex model and mimicking that so you can infuse -- in silicon valley so that you cognitionws -- infuse eventually? virginia rometty: i think the point about that you can mimic -- we do a lot of work -- our head of research on brain .nspired computing it for many good reasons by the way, to do things like perception and your ability to have much safer roadways and things around there. i think these technologies, any one individual. if you try to put together what man does in all of the pieces in the we are not at that point, and we will not be for a far foreseeable future. let me book end the different

point. i think there are issues of ethics that have to be paid attention to. and we are part of and we formed the a.i. partnership with google and facebook and others to say, you have got to take seriously some of the issues that come with the ethical side of ai and in this case, there was a very good paper i think the white house did, the office of science and technology that frames what these kinds of issues are and what both public debate and policies are required to have these technologies really do what we started with, which was bring great goodness to society in the trade-off. i do not me too short count it, i think there are issues about where the technologies are today and in the first sealable future and i think we should pay attention to these really valuable questions. promod haque: one more question. right there. get the mic. >> hi. i am alex.

ceo of the company called data nova. ibm has gotten more patents than any other company in the world. do you envision dedicating some of those patented technologies, much like what elon musk has done with tesla. do i envision dedicating those to the public? virginia rometty: we have. many times in our lifetime we have dedicated these and put them in open source as an example. that has happened many times. these have not all been kept with us. i cannot even remember what percentage that has been done with -- but many different times and gave rise to the open-source community. i assume we will continue to do that. so we do both. i think that is how many people who have, many not many, but intellectual property, looking at both sides of that.

promod haque: i think we are going to have to close here because i think our time is running up. karen, if you would come up. let me make one quick comment. with your perspective and the debate about jobs and so on, this is the way i see it. let's use a very simple example call centers. , a lot of call-center jobs have been outsourced to different parts of the world. the reason for that is, you can get that job done for one third the cost and so on and so forth. now, take a look at the call-center individual here in the u.s. and if we augment the call-center person with machine intelligence and cognitive mputing and make that person 2-3 times more productive than he was on his own before, he or she, that job can stay here.

the money gets spent in the local gdp. i think that is what we have to think about. cognitive computing, which is machine intelligence empowering and augmenting existing human beings and increasing their productivity, will lead to tremendous amounts of benefit for the country. so that is the way i look at cognitive computing in the future, whether it is call centers or other kinds of jobs, but i think it will make a big difference. if you want to,. . karen: i want to thank her stash -- our speakers very much. [applause] before you leave, we have a very small gift for you. it is a churchill club speaker

t-shirt of course. virginia rometty: excellent. alright. thank you very much. promod haque: thank you. karen: a recording of the program will be available on the churchhill club youtube channel shortly. i hope you find it to be a useful resource. please stay seated as dinner will be served now. you have been a terrific audience. thank you so much. enjoy the rest of the evening. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

announcer: how personal data is collected and used by marketers. then, a discussion on the opioid epidemic in the u.s. and and update on the situation in afghanistan. primetime tonight begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern with a look at career of vice president elect mike pence and a profile of charles schumer and at 10:20 p.m. eastern, interviews with the numbers of the 115th congress. here is a preview. >> my grandfather immigrated to the's country -- to this country from ireland. while i actually started in when is as a democrat,

heard the voice of the 40th president of the united states, it all changed for me. i live the dream of becoming a congressman from that small town and now i serve as governor of the great state of indiana. [applause] i served 12 years in congress and i love to say if i only had 12 years left to live, i would want to live it as a member of congress because that was the longest 12 years of my life. [laughter] just say our challenge is really just begun. the american public has rejected the policies of george bush and they are waiting to see what we can do and we are going to show losethat we can never sight of them in terms of making their lives better and creating america for the average person and for all americans. announcer: part of tonight's

primetime programming getting underway at 8:00 eastern on c-span. this holiday weekend on c-span here are some featured programs. on saturday, we will take a look at farewell speeches and tributes for outgoing members of congress and the white house. starting at 12:30 p.m. eastern with barbara mikulski of maryland and at 2:00 p.m. tribute and speeches for joe biden. at 8:00 p.m., christmas at the white house. join first lady michelle obama as she receives the official white house christmas tree. see this year's decorations, make christmas crafting projects with phil -- children of military families visiting the lighthouse, and the tree lighting ceremony on the national mall. at 8:40 p.m. hear from former house speaker john on the trump presidency and his time in congress. at nine: 40 p.m. attend the

portrait unveiling of outgoing senate majority leader harry reid, democrat of nevada. speakers include hillary clinton, vice president joe biden, and charles schumer. on sunday at 12:30 p.m. we hear from retiring member of congress, charles wrangle of new york. onm the shakespeare theatre capitol hill we take you to the romeo and julio wrongful death mock trial where samuel alito serves as presiding judge. a look at the career of vice president-elect mike pence and his new role as vice president. watch on c-span and www.c-span.org and listen on the free c-span radio app. announcer: this weekend on american history tv on c-span three, saturday afternoon just before 5:00 eastern, architectural historian there he lewis talks about the construction of the brooklyn bridge, why manhattan needed the

bridge and how transportation changed at the turn of the 20th century. >> when the brooklyn bridge was fairies were still running -- the ferries were running at capacity. announcer: at 8:00 on "lectures in history." >> the interesting thing about country music is it is the music of poor white people. people who were privileged to be white, but also people who are underprivileged in terms of their class identity and their economic opportunities. professor a college on the emerging definitions of whiteness and blackness in colonial america and how it impacted the origins of country music. sunday afternoon at 4:00 on "real america." >> budget cutbacks and a tangle

of state and legislative local problems created evidence that this crusade against society's greatest enemies mail be slowed may be slowed or level off. announcer: the film "the president." documents the final month of the year of president lyndon b. johnson, his meeting with mexico's president, awarding the medal of honor to a marine who fought in vietnam, and celebrity the holidays with his family at his texas ranch. at 8:00 on "the presidency," author of "madam president: the secret residency of edith wilson." she buffered access to the president as he recovered from a massive shrug. -- massive stroke. for our complete schedule, go to

www.c-span.org. next, how your personal data is collected and used by marketers, govern it -- government law enforcement, employers, and others. is 45 minutes.

dr. rogers is a coeditor of privacy and security crime department. his areas of research cover the behavioral aspects of the deviant use of technology, cyber criminal behavioral analysis, and understanding cyber terrorism. today, he will be presenting a talk entitled, "cyber security and social media: how big is your digital footprint and why should you care?" as we do at every one of these, i will ask you to silence electronic devices, but do not turn them off. we hope to see you tweeting or posting to facebook, snapchat, instagram, or whatever flavor of social product you use. i also understand halfway through the presentation, you decide to stop doing that. please join me in welcoming dr.

marcus rogers. [applause] marcus rogers: thank you. can anybody hear me in the back? i have -- i am either blessed or cursed with a voice that tends to boom a little bit. welcome to "dawn or doom". my talk will be about the concept of the digital footprint. and i will warn you off the back, it will come across on the new -- on the doomy sidekick i -- side of the dawn or doom. i am a tech guy, i have my toys and i do online banking. i purchased stuff over the internet. this is not about fear this is , about understanding the cost benefit analysis of technology. nothing in life is without risk. it is the same with easy technology. what is the cost of technology? what is the cost of the convenience we have with these devices? nothing is for free. we know that.

without further ado, let's talk about the concept of a digital footprint. we will look at what is it? and more important, why should you care? ok, this is a concept that is out there, but with different -- what difference does it make to me? what can we do once we understand some of the risks of this digital footprint? and then we will put our hat on hat on and look at what is coming down the pipe. digital footprint, we are aware of the concept of the carbon footprint. it is something that has been in the popular media. we are aware and we are concerned about how big is our carbon footprint. but very few things about how big is our digital footprint. and think about it, we are a wired society. especially the next generation, the current generation. they are wired, connected 24/7. they love to share information

about themselves and ourselves every 15 minutes and in 140 characters or less. it is a wired society and because of that we have a trail that we leave behind. the concept of a digital footprint is exactly that. it is the information, the artifacts, the traces you leave behind when you use technology. when you use the internet. when you drive your car. when you use that smart thermostat. when you do a lot of these things that we do not take into consideration, leave traces of who we are, what we like, and what we do. there are two types, there is -- the passive. this is really created when you are surfing the internet when , you are talking on the phone, when you are doing things we do daily. the passive is really collected -- more importantly, without you

knowing it. so as you go and surf the web, there are things called web -- -- cookies. if you go and search for a particular term, there is information stored about you such as ip address. passive is one and active is a very interesting concept. this is what we voluntarily share with companies. think about this. this is the data or information such as you put on your facebook page, your twitter account, your informationhis is that we voluntarily share. we know we are sharing it, but what is interesting with this and the concept of the risk-benefit analysis, is while we share it, we are not always sure what will happen to the information want tickets collected. there is the issue of i shared the information with company x,

but what does company x do with the information? where does it go? can we control it? should we be worried about it? what is interesting is on the investigative side of the house there is always a balance , between security and privacy. when we are talking about digital footprint and the artifacts or traces, another term that is used, especially in the law enforcement community, is evidence because an investigation, these types of digital for -- footprints can be used as a type of evidence. why is data collected? there are several reasons. the main reasons are usually to do with money. commercial. there is a commercial reason for doing this. your information is worth a lot of money. now, your individual information might only be worth pennies, but if you take 50 million people's

information. all of a sudden, the value of the information has increased. you have people like direct marketers that want to send you something. they want to look at where you have gone and what you are done and what you up shop and what you pick that the grocery store and then directly market to you. that is actually a better way of potentially swaying your purchasing opinion than doing the mass marketing to everybody and not knowing if it is of interest to you. consumer profiling. again, trying to understand what it is you like, what you do not like, and then try to influence your buying decision. you also have these organizations called data aggregators. what these companies do is they are being kind of the big daddy, the big data grandfathers, they collect information from various sources all over, all of these

traces, they aggregate the data and supposedly they sell it to a -- they anonymize it and they sell it to a lot of these direct marketers and consumer profilers. you have also got government and thanks to some of the things that has happened -- that have happened over the past couple of years, the disclosures, the individuals that decided to leak information, we know that various government agencies are looking at this data. -- they are concerned about what is happening online. using some of the same information that the marketers and consumer profiling people are doing and using it for investigation. using it to try to determine the next terrorist attack, using it try and determine, is somebody going to commit a crime or somebody has committed a crime, then you have others. you have got cell phone companies collecting information, supposedly for engineering purposes for

, purposes of troubleshooting networks, troubleshooting your devices. this is information that while it is used for those purposes, says a lot about where you are, what you have done, and where you have gone. you also have health insurers and insurance companies with information being collected so they can get a medical profile and understand maybe what issues you may have health related. they may look at passing it off to their underwriters and their actuarial's to look at the risk factor you have now. should your policy go up the next time you try to renew your policy? information such as that. in some cases -- debt -- definitely very possible -- positive, is there something in your health history that they can tell you about early so you maybe apple -- be able to be proactive as opposed to reactive with your health care. so there are various reasons why information is being collected. mostlyod, some that, but

-- some bad, but mostly it is neutral. data collection is not good or evil, it is neutral. it is what we do with the data that determines how much risk it could possibly be. tracking technologies. this is the passive side. there are all kinds of technologies. as we speak there are new technologies coming online to track what you are doing. this became obvious when the last bunch of operating systems were updated and browsers were updated and in the bright -- browsers was the concept of ad blocking. did this ever annoy the companies trying to collect this information because that is their bread and butter. easily and track as if you would go to some of these websites with these ad blocking web browsers which were default in the operating system, it would come back and say wait a minute, you are using an ad blocking browser. please do not use this or white list us because in order to keep the site going, we really need

to collect information from you and that is an interesting concept. we also have things like malware. we have all heard stories about systems being taken over, information being ripped off of -- leaked off of the systems without our knowledge. and you have interesting things such as invisible disguise links, they look like one thing and you click on it and it takes you someplace different. there are all kinds of tracking technologies that are both inherent in the technologies we are using and some are rather creative ways of the companies, those entities i talked about, tracking what you are doing and creating this large database of what you do, where you go, what you like, and who you associate with. when you enter into the data, this is where becomes an interesting concept. this is stuff we share.

this is the active side of it. -- side of the house. email, texting, you are voluntarily giving information away. who you are talking to, in some cases, what you are talking about. depending upon the internet company or the mail provider, even the content of your mail they are a lot to look at in the terms of the surface. -- service. credit card purchases. this is an interesting kind of a positive to using these credit cards, you will find that these credit card companies keep profiles of your buying habits, of your spending habits. how many of you have purchased something that was a little bit out of the ordinary, only to get a phone call that says, is this -- that says "wait a minute, are you sure this is you buying it?" how do you think they are doing that? they have created a profile and you do not fit it. that is a good thing.

especially if that purchase is happening in new york the same time you are sitting here in west lafayette trying to use your credit card. think about the information they have collected in order to develop that consumer profile. twitter, social media, facebook, and those to come, the other technologies to come, part of their business is not to give you free access to their services. it is to collect data and make money off of your data, that is how they stay alive. through marketing, through the consumer profiling, through data aggregation. at least on the side of the house, we should be aware of the fact that their data is being collected and we should have made an informed, educated decision that we are ok with these folks collecting our data. probably go one step further and be ok with what they are doing with it afterwards,

who they are selling it to come who gets this information and how is it being used. this is the side that is probably a little bit easier for us to have some control over as far as what we now think is fixed separable -- is acceptable risk for our data. this is the side a little bit easier for us to have control over, as far as what we now think is acceptable risk for our data. so it is collective? we understand why, we have an idea of who, ok, but what? you would be amazed at the information available, especially to get involved and the correlation of a very large data depository and you can start doing trend analysis and pattern analysis. basically, the information that is being collected is enough to create something like a personal

narrative, your profile. what you do from when you get up in the morning to going to bed at night and everything in between. kind of like the ultimate big brother from the 1984 book about how we are being surveilled. we can think about that issue. there are a lot of things they know. what route you took to work. where you drove, how fast you went to work what time you had , lunch. the time you got it. the time you go to work. the time you get home. .his is a lot of information in the good old days, when law enforcement used to want to do surveillance on somebody, they had to do the stakeout. they would park the car by the house and get the binoculars out. law enforcement does not have to do that anymore. you are giving them this information. you are creating this persona, this narrative they can actually follow. in some cases, this information has been used and a lot of cases for very good reasons. there are stories about people who have gotten lost. older people that maybe have

dementia that wander off and they have been able to found through the ability of technology to do geolocation. to find out where you are, which -- to find out maybe which hotspot your phone or your wi-fi just came from, where you are sitting. folks, there have been incredible advantages. for everything i have talking about -- i have talked about that has a negative flavor, there is a positive. let's look at this again. your personal narrative, this is a lot of tricky, personal information that i am not sure i want everybody to know about. i not sure i want a marketing company to know all of this information because while it could be good for directed marketing, there is a real downside. just briefly, this is some of the information that this data

can portray about you. what you like to eat, what you like to drink, what you watch on tv, that is streaming -- that is not necessarily for free or even the low price you pay for it. you are paying it back -- the cost is information they are collecting about what you like to watch. the concept of the nielsen rating has changed with streaming tv and streaming video. thatpartnership status, can be important for a lot of different reasons, for health care, for child custody, you name it. the size of your family, your religion, your sexual orientation, your political affiliation, your circle of friends. why would we be concerned about who knows who our friends are? there are at least a few reports where individuals who have been applying for loans for credit

were turned down as being a high risk because the group of friends they associated with were high risk. fit that profile that the financial institution thought was good or non-risky. even the choice of your friends can affect decisions about you. health, these days, with telemedicine and telehealth care and everything is online, i am not sure i want everybody to know my health information. i am not sure i want my employer to know everything about my health. insurance maybe my company and my doctor, not necessarily my employer. these things individually can cause people to go "that is a little much."

when you combine this together, it becomes bigger -- and some cases, we hope precise picture, but not necessarily. one of the issues with your digital footprint and collecting all of this data and creating these personas is you have no way of checking to see if it is an accurate picture of you. think about that. a lot of data is being collected about you. they are creating these profiles. they are creating basically a digital version of you. i am going to show you what some of the decisions being made based on the profile and you do not have access to fact check it and make sure it is correct. if anybody in this room does not think there is going to be errors made, a lot of this is done on a statistical basis. i have news for you. there is a good possibility it is not all accurate. why should you care? quite often people will say, i am not a criminal, i have

nothing to hide. i am going to challenge there is not one person in this room that does not have something they really do not want to be made public. it does not mean you are a criminal, but there are parts of our lives with our -- which are private and not everything we want shared. so privacy. a big issue. what do i care that this information gets out there? maybe it is a cyber security risk. who is going to attack me? you would be surprised. if you simply have a connection to the internet, and you do with your phone, you are a potential victim for somebody to attack you. a lot of cases, they are not -- after you, they are after an ,ntry point maybe into purdue into your bank, into your health care system and you become that portal into that institution and your information than gets used

in some cases to create an attack vector to go after something bigger. in some cases, the attack is against you. in those cases, we have heard about things like identity theft and the really dark side. let's have a look. what are some of the privacy concerns? a big concern is what if it is inaccurate? you could be denied employment. employers go and check data right? ,they actually go and purchase this information from data aggregators and make decisions. it is interesting when i had a quick look about what is posted, the it -- the majority of information on digital footprints is geared toward high school students. the only warning they have is don't post bad stuff to facebook because you won't get a job. obviously, it is a lot more than that. employers will go and purchase

information. if it is inaccurate, you will -- you could have a problem. --dit companies do doodle it due diligence. they go out and they look at this stuff and they create a risk profile. you can be denied health insurance. public humiliation. basically slammed on the internet, the famed, have -- the media is very quick to put these xers up there, but if it happens that you are in a system that was not you, that is a byline on the nice page 80 obituary at the back of the paper that is not going to be a retraction on the front page that says we are a story. you will have to be digging for that. he's -- you could basically be found guilty simply by being in the press. in some cases, even arrested. shownation could have

your phone or computer was used to attack that financial institution, your persona was created to create a false identity that went out and committed a crime. wait a minute. all of a sudden, it is you. is inaccurate, you could still be denied employment or denied credit. this information is being used used to make life-changing, serious decisions and in some cases even to look at acceptance he into university. there, itta is out should be used and used in such a way that at least we have a chance of defending ourselves against it or challenging the accuracy of it. also, from a privacy perspective, why should some deals make money off of your

data? it would be a great idea if you transactionf every that was made with your data being sold to some but he else. pretty goode a income considering the millions and billions of pieces information being shared around. in some cases, it is without consent. yourny a will collect data. i willingly allow this because i want to use that functionality. i want the convenience of online shopping or fast delivery, but i did not agree for you to sell it to telemarketers who will call me at 9:00 a.m. on a sunday and try to sell me something. where do you think those numbers come from? --y did not come out and ask telemarketers are better than asking can we have your number so we can bother you 24/7? they are a little smarter than that. not much, but a little.

give them a little bit credit for that. they are buying this information. that is how your information would have been shared that you would have readily agreed, even if it did mean you would get early.liveries a day understanding the cost-benefit risk trade-off. one of the questions that come out is great, but can you ever really be anonymous online with technology? that is a very good question and not one that we can get into here because that is a completely different discussion. we feel that the concepts of .nonymity and pseudo-anonymity can you really be private? it is interesting because my generation and current generation of digital natives has a completely different definition of privacy than we do. in my generation, privacy is a binary decision. it is either private or it isn't.

to the generations that have come along since privacy tends , to be on a continuum. something can be kind of private. hearing concepts like pseudo-privacy, which is bizarre. it is part of that wired culture. it is part of the wired generation. let's look at security concerns. it is interesting to see that these concert -- security concerns are not just technology kind of geeky internet stuff. think look at the information i have shown before. somebody knows which way you drive to work, which coffee shop you go to, where you take your lunch, which park your kids play at in between what hours. that is a lot of information that someone with various plans could use in the real world to do physical stuff. physical kidnapping.

if you look at the counter surveillance a plot of big companies do, one thing they told to do is don't share your daily plans with anybody. take a different route toward every time you go. don't be an easy target. if you are willing to share that information, then we are becoming very easy targets. people also have things like cyber stalking, which is kind of the new trend. you have identity theft, or to criminal account takeover. the rate of identity theft is amazing. it is staggering. about one year ago, the statistics i saw was that it was the fastest-growing nonviolent criminal activity in the world. something like i don't know how many millions, but the chances of being a victim of identity theft is extremely high. where do you think they get the

information from? from these same data sources. these data breaches from these data aggregators have all this information about you. not only can they create a digital persona of you, someone can take that and great a physical persona and go apply for that loan. in some cases, file a tax return that claims the irs owes you money. tax return fraud is staggering. one of the studies said it was a 200% increase since last year. nothing worse than going to file your income tax only to be told by the irs, oh, we already cut your check for $5,000. we sent it to your house in new york. uh, i don't live in new york? i will take the $5,000 if you

want to give it to me. now the fun starts. now you have to prove you did not make that return. when i say fun, i don't mean fun. it's not fun. there is a high risk that is going to happen. this is not just privacy, there are real-world security concerns. but it can be used for good. would not want to go back to the iwould not want to go back to the daysne of having to wait three weeks for a catalog. i would love to go online. i would stop by and have it the next day. i don't want to go back. that's cool. purdue, big university. i don't want to go back to the days where we have to line up at the forums. in it is nice to be able to do

it online. it's nice to be able to file your tax return online. you don't have to mail it. streamlined health care. there have been numerous cases where the information aggregated has saved someone's life. in some countries, the pharmacies actually have large databases. at least a couple of instances, they were able to save somebody from taking two different types of medication that would have killed them combined. they were able to go to the pharmacist, wait a minute, you are taking such and such? you can't take this because that will kill you. being used to determine disease outbreaks, zika, hnh1, avian bird flu. to find out where patient zero is.

my friends who do epidemiology, trying to find that hotspot ground zero is essential. it is the wintertime, and flu season happens. the pharmacies can start stocking up. they get reports from the cdc. guess what, folks? indiana is getting hit because people are googling flu symptoms. the information is being collected. in it is being used to predict. we better start stocking up at the pharmacy because the flu is rising. data has been able to prevent suicides. through the users and their own monitoring, they were able to determine the information and

attitudes of the individual who had this social media site was becoming very dark and negative. they were going into a very bad place. they were able to do early intervention, call workgroups and present somebody from committing suicide. -- and prevent somebody from committing suicide. to me, that is a pretty big positive. public personal safety. tornado warnings on your phone now. you don't have to buy the darn storm radio that you can't find the batteries for. this summer there was a lot of flooding in my area. on the way to work, through the work of geo sensing, i have a pop-up that said wait a minute, the bridge is flooded out, take a different route. that is pretty cool information.

i would like to know that before i end stock tires deep in water. yes, there should be some good. -- there is definitely some good and there should be. my argument is not that the collecting of the data is necessarily bad. we need to be aware that it is being collected. we need to be aware that we get nothing for free. to get the convenience and functionality, we have to give something up. the cost of this is our privacy. as long as we are informed consumers and understand that, then i think we can make the decisions. often we don't consider the cost of giving your phone number out to anybody. how do we control it? it is definitely easier on the access side. maybe you don't post everything

in a 50 minute increments on social media. throw them off. let them guess where you are for half an hour. maybe you throw them off on google with something you are not really interested in. there is technology that came out for the search engines that would do that, it would throw random search terms all the time to keep the company's equity dating these -- aggregating this information completely confused. it went from zucchini to eggplants to mountain biking to monster truck rallies. that is a pretty broad profile. i put this up not because i believe you can actually do it, but because it is always on the site -- use your cash, not your card. easier said than done. depending upon some cities and countries, they are not looking for your cash.

for it is an extra charge if you want to pay with cash. everything they want electronic. something people forget to do is keep anti-nowhere software updated. not just on your computer systems, but only computer system sitting on your hip, your smartphone. this is a rhetorical question. how many people have anti-malware software on your phone? think about it. that is a powerful little computer. a glut of personal banking information right on your hip. how about the technology side? there is an blocking technology. almost every browser has incognito mode, which allows you to go out and "don't track me" is another term they have

built-in. you can use cookie cleaners, proxy routing. technology like .tor, which is had a bad reputation. tor was actually created by the u.s. government as a way of securing communications for dissidents and people in the country. it has a bad reputation. but the technology in and of itself is a way of adding layers to make it difficult to find out where you're coming from and what you are doing. so proxy software. what is coming down the pipe? internet of things. everything highly directed. from door openers to power meters, smart tv's you cannot only talk to, but guess what? it is recording what you are saying.

that has happened. it is bad enough that the tv is in your living room. people have had tvs elsewhere. and the company that did this did not tell the consumer's, oh by the way, not only are you talking to it, we are listening all the time. what is interesting with the internet of things is you can basically have a smart house collecting information on you. you can basically be driving home, and your car notifies your garage door to open, which notifies your thermostat to turn on, which notifies your coffeemaker. all this information is going back somewhere. now your cars know a lot about you. these are all internet of things.

location services are built into everything. everybody wants to know your location. every company, every piece of technology. if you are walking in a shopping mall and connect to the wi-fi, guess what happens when you walk by a store? wait a minute, how does it know i'm standing in front of the store when there is a sale? that is the cost of using their technology. they get to spy on you for lack of a better term. and everything has its. that little device on your hip, your location. the car you are driving, geolocation. it is interesting. a friend of mine rented a

vehicle to a city he has not been to. he decided to basically purchase the gps system that the rental car company had. this friend was known to have a bit of a heavy foot. no accidents, everything was fine. pays the fee, finds an additional amount on his bill because he had been speeding, and they were able to tell. hmm, interesting information. increase in data reaches. -- data breaches. as more of our data goes into these data aggregators, where do you think the bad guys are going to go after? they are going to go after the crown jewel, which is your data. we are seeing an increase of data breach, both in health care, financial sector, and education.

is privacy really dead? do we just get over it? some people think so. i will leave it up to you to decide. conclusions -- your digital footprint is huge. and it is not getting smaller. we are not getting less connected, we are getting more. everything needs to be connected. it is more than worrying about what you post on facebook and twitter. we have to do a better job with our kids. we have to make them conform -- informed consumers. yes, it can be used for good and evil. we tend to think more on the risk side. can we take steps to control it? yes.

are you going to get rid of data collection? absolutely not. it's foolish for me to say you can block it off. what you do need to do, and what is being pushed for is controlling what happens to your information and who uses it after it is collected. other countries have privacy acts. that is the main thrust of this privacy acts. you have to be a good steward of the data. it must be informed consent as to what you do with that data. we can't influence our data once it is collected. my parting thought his to me, privacy is not dead, it is just sleeping. questions? >> if you would like to ask a question, i would ask you to come down here.

we will probably run for another five or 10 minutes. you can plan accordingly. please feel free to come down and ask the question if you've got one. marcus: i think they are all in a state of shock now. >> i will be the victim, since i am used to being a victim in your classes. [laughter] basically it is a people problem more than a technology problem as far as the use of the data. the checks and balances is that a consumer-based approach doesn't enforce checks and balances, or is it a governmental regulation approach? marcus: the data in and of itself is not a problem, it is how it gets abused. as far as the solution, it is both. if you look at the countries that have passed privacy

legislation, and the u.s. does not have one. most of the other countries in the g7 have it. it is both, conformed consumers, -- informed consumers, a government watchdog that makes people play by the rules. and i hate saying it, it is some regulatory bodies that have consequences if you violate it. we have seen something similar with hipaa. in the consumer model, people are not even aware this is going on. to have a consumer driven approach, everyone would have to be an informed consumer. that is not a reality. so it has to be both. the consumer saying, company a hazard privacy policy and says they are going to do something with it. company a has privacy and

security controls, company b doesn't, i am going to get my money to a. there has to be regulation and policy enforcement behind this. there is no incentive for anyone to change right now other than the negative publicity. when we want convenience, we forget about privacy again. thank you very much. enjoy the rest of the conference. [applause] host: [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] next, a discussion on the opioid crisis in the u.s.. inn the situation afghanistan and later, a

conversation on technological innovation and the banking industry. taking a look at the c-span primetime programming, join us at8:00 p.m. eastern to look the career of mike pence and then incoming senate leader and thenchumer interviews with several new members of the 115th congress. that starts at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. this holiday weekend on c-span, here are some of our future programs. on saturday, farewell speeches and tributes for outgoing members of congress and the white house. at 12:30 p.m. eastern, senator barbara mikulski and at 2:00 p.m., tributes and speeches for vice president joe biden and at 8:00 p.m., christmas at the white house with michelle obama she receives the official white house christmas tree, tour the white house and see this year's decorations. make christmas crafting projects with children of military

families visiting the white house and finally, the tree lighting ceremony on the national mall. at 8:40 p.m., hear from former house speaker john boehner on the trump presidency and his time in congress. at 9:40 p.m., attend the portrait unveiling of senate .inority leader harry reid speakers include hillary clinton, vice president joe biden, and charles schumer. on sunday at 12:30 p.m. eastern, we will hear from retiring member of congress, charles wrangle of new york. at 2:10 p.m. from the shakespeare theatre on capitol hill, we take you to the romeo and juliet wrongful death mock trial were supreme court associate justice samuel alito atves as providing judge and 6:30 p.m., look at the career of mike pence and his new role as vice president. watch on c-span and www.c-span.org and listen on the free c-span radio app.

>> military forces one of the things>> that them american public gets impatient about. they believe they have the trump card, this great military that can defeat anyone but it's not true. it's an extraordinary military and very powerful but it can only win in certain situations and i can only really destroy things. it cannot held a new order in its place. , mark dannerht talks about his career and the challenges facing the u.s. war on terrorism in his latest look. what we don't want to do is respond in such a way that will more of these militants, more of these militant organizations. to overreact. they want us to occupy muslim countries so they can build their recruitment. they want us to torture people. they want us to do things that will allow them to make their

case against us. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. now, a discussion on the opioid epidemic in the united states on this morning's "washington journal." this is about 45 minutes. host: at our table this morning, essley white a reporter for the center for public integrity or he is here to talk about a series on the opioid crisis. let's begin by talking about the prescription drug companies launching a multistate tragedy -- strategy? what was the strategy? guest: we looked at the power they had at the level and the response to lawmakers, realizing we had a problem with opioids in the country. and what was done to be a will -- along the way to defend their products over the last few years. there were a number of things

done at the state level and federal level. talking about how pain as undertreated and we need these drugs. users are in desperate straits and we should do more to limit access to them. -- help opioids get to people rather than limiting access. and we found they had a vast political power and contributions and lobbying and they used that to their advantage. host: how much money are we talking about? that they spent on the state level? guest: on the state level, we saw several million dollars and we don't know exactly how much of that went to it versus other interests. level, we saw several million dollars and we don't know exactly how much it versus other interests. but in total in 10 years we saw politicalon in contributions and lobbying at the state level. and not all of that was

necessarily for opioids. but a lot of it was available for drugmakers when they needed to cash in on the political relationship. you note in one of your stories that this is where the 200 times than those advocating for stricter policies spend and more than eight times with the gun lobby spent during that same time. guest: yes. we looked at data from state and federal governments and we added up with the nra and gun manufacturer spent. and what pharmaceutical companies have spent outnumbered them. there are a number of groups that are groups that have been started by parents of children who have overdosed. that kind of thing. who are fighting for stricter limits on opioids. widespreadopposed to pharmaceutical group. and they only amassed $4 million over the same amount of time.

and the result? guest: at the federal level, drugmakers have been able to push their point effectively for many years. fda regulators two years ago were fighting a sadistic that when hundred million people are living -- which came from a report that drugmakers did. this hase state level, been pushed back or delayed. we also see the city a new drug. a deterrent formulation. those are incredibly profitable for pharmaceutical companies. and that is something that will help the opioid crisis even though they have not yet been driven to produce drug overdoses or deaths. and those have seen an increase in the number of bills and attention they are getting.

host: let's talk about that. they are called tamper-resistant. you can't crush them. explain. why are advocates saying this would help reduce the opioid epidemic? are two mindsets about what is going on with the opioids in america right now. a lot of doctors who are concerned about overprescribing see people going into the hospital for the first time and having a broken ankle and coming home with an open your prescription. it may last 30 days and they only needed seven days and then they are hooked on the drug. they see that as a main culprit in the opioid crisis today. it now has many people addicted. their response to that is to say that we have an addiction crisis. whereas if you talk to drug lobbyists, their real emphasis is on a drug abuse crisis.

these drugs are good and they are working how they showed and they are not getting overprescribed. people are snorting them and injecting them and that is the problem. are created to be harder to crash and dissolve. and that is supposed to stop some of the abuse. but these are still the same active ingredients. the sametill get result. host: what does that mean for profits for the drug companies? guest: these drugs are patent protected. they are very lucrative. last year, opioid spent $10 billion in the country. a version was $2 billion of

that. 5% ofhough they were only the drugs prescribed so they are big money makers for the drug companies. in some cases, it seems like that would be a really good idea. we are mandating state versus us go to these drugs versus other solutions to this crisis. host: how are drug companies responded to your series? guest: we have actually gotten responses from them. don't fight that we limits on drugs, even if it means less prescribing, but we haven't received a lot of pushback after the publication. waking upugmakers are and realizing that this is a big problem in america. this is how we are

dividing lines. the mountain pacific region, (202) 748-8001. part, (202)tral 748-8000. if you yourself have experienced this opioid addiction epidemic or a family member or you are a doctor with experience with this, (202) 748-8002. let's go to stephanie from pennsylvania up first. good morning. your question or comment about this? caller: about the incentives. incentives fore the doctors who are prescribing them. where ad on c-span congressional committee increase the percentage that a doctor gets per prescription when they write a prescription. it was 2% and they upped it to 4%.

is it still 4% or has it been upped since that time? guest: i am not sure what you mean on percentages. these drugs are heavily marketed toward doctors. there are a number of stories over the last 20 years how the maker of oxycontin would reach out to doctors and pay them and give them free dinners and that kind of thing, promoting their drug as saying it is very underused and people are suffering needlessly. result, there was a flood of prescribing that. host: what do the doctor say about using this drug to treat pain and their prescription, the prescriptions and they write? well, there are a number

of ways to deal with pain for patients. there are certainly alternatives forms like acupuncture, physical therapy, that kind of thing and things like added feel and aspirin -- advil and aspirin that come with bleeding risks. opieyards are looked at yards are looking at another one that is needed. thatioids that are look and are needed. studies are showing that pages get on opioids and leading to higher doses because their pain thereivity increases and are not so good options for long-term treatment of people with chronic pain. mean, how quickly can somebody get addicted to a prescription? questionat is a good and people are trying to figure it out. the big debate on what is

dependency versus addiction. , doctors who are very knowledgeable about this , even ife seven days that, you can get dependent on a prescription. host: maryland, joe, what is your story? your experience with this issue? caller: i called on the wrong line by accident. me one minute of your time. i promise i can help a little bit with this. in 1990, i was diagnosed with crohn's disease. i laid on the table for three wouldnd they said they cut you open and they do not give you pain medications. he cuts me and said, lesson, you had across disease. does you have crohn's disease. we will get with a dietitian and all of that stuff. i was only 24.

,hen i got out of the hospital i was like a new man and i had to get over the surgery and i was on pain medication. and then they hooked me up with a really good doctor that was all about -- whatever you call it. that doctor said, you know, i just cannot stop going to the bathroom all of the time and pains. he said i will give you this medicine and we will try steroids, and that lamodol. it was the main one. nobody gave you paperwork saying , sidedicine was, you know effects and all of that. it made me like a new man. i went to work every day and did everything. that window where i could keep time and i would not have to go to the bathroom. it made me select a normal person again.

i've and run and run and been operated on nine times since then. i am 51 years old. nine times between then and i needed a more it more of that lamodol. i try to stay off of the prednisone because you heard of the football players and stuff. all of a sudden, 10 years ago maybe, they started giving you the paperwork. i looked at it and my doctor have theey, we will star back and you off of some of this drug. now, they need your idea and everything. years,told me in that 20 i am wide open on the lomotil, a painkiller and nobody knew. and every nine operations, i took opioids and i got off of them. the lomotil, i need to do more and more. now i take 4 three times a day. one three times a

day. it is impossible to have any -- host: that is joe's story. what are you thinking about? it seems likest: joe has experienced what a lot of patients have. they have had to have increasingly higher doses which is more and more dangerous as you approach levels that shut down your breathing and cause overdoses. a lot of of doctors are doing what joe's doctor is doing and notifying patients of the risks and having them do random drug screenings and testing samples to make the sure they are taking prescribed doses as prescribed. and a number of measures to make sure patients are not selling drugs. host: are there laws on the books that require doctors to do that or restrict how much they can prescribe? guest: it is different from state to state. massachusetts passed a law that

asks doctors for first-time prescriptions to limit that to a number of days. that was flocked by pain advocates -- fought by pain advocates. guidelinestes have and not laws. host: we are talking about the order crisis, epidemic, some say, in this country. the rise and use of prescription kill. 200 million prescriptions in 2015 according to the recording -- reported by our guests in the series and they have done looking at the issue. and a.s a physician you are on the air. caller: good morning. what you think about this -- host: what you think about this? .aller: i am in a physician

i'm a critical care physician. and i think this problem was largely created by the federal government. youreason i say that is remember back in the early 1990's, there was a big move for by the federal government, some of the people decrying right now the opioid epidemic passed legislation so that we were coastal election we were under treating pain patients and people in pain had pain and we cannot understand it. we had to give them relief for their pain, all of the time, 24/7. , there weres government mandate seminars from our state agencies that we had to prescribed stuff. for example, i remember a patient in the 1990's who came to me that a questionable disability.

i asked him to sign a contract he would only receive drugs for me and that he would not go to other people to get drugs. he was getting several hundred opioid medication's from other physicians. i got a call from disability to termination of services at our state and the federal government official accusing me of abusing this person. fortunately, their relationship with him and did. and now, i see the opposite side of the coin. it is like one of these cause celebre among progressives. at first it was pure everybody's pain and now not prescribe the things. host: can i have you hang on the line and listen to this from senator manchin, democrat from west virginia? i want to hear what your reaction to the latest from a

lawmaker out here in washington. he was on cnn with jake tapper. >> i have been saying this for a long time. an unbelievable job. he is not let up and he gives me information that is so accurate and factual. we have been saying it is a business model. that cannot tell me you can send a 9 million peels to west virginia and someone has been targeted. you have the fda continues to pull more products on the market. they are allow more products and not taking anything off. you have the dea not doing their job and all. overstatingically how many products are going to the market and was dispensing it. nobody is overseeing the doctors and making sure they are competent and educated well enough to understand the perils of this overprescribing. level, nothe state just our state of west virginia,

while most of the states were pharmaceutical board should be looked at the rogue pharmacies to stop i do not care -- role pharmacies. -- i do not care who they are. down.e to shut them host: david, go ahead. caller: it is going to make it worse. i predict that when i am gone and bear it, there will be a move to treat people in pain dm there will be a move to treat people in pain again. i think the truck companies meet amy -- drug companies meet a need, this is kind of like an earthquake released 20 years ago . you're now seeing the aftershocks and the tsunami. the next are will be under treatment of pain. the issue is the objective treatment of pain. and thee other forces market that are causing doctors to behave this way.

the pressure to see 60 or 70 patients a day to make your overhead. i just went through a license were normal were always required -- renewal were always required to have 30 hours of online training and the dangers of prescribing opioids which i learned in medical school. we all know they are dangerous. it is very difficult to be objective about the use of opioids. pain is not objective symptom. host: right -- them -- eitherve give them because you are somehow hurting people by not giving them or courting them because they are being hurt by over prescription. host: do you believe they are effective? caller: if they are used , yeah, if they're used properly. host: what percentage of your

patients do you believe use them properly? themr: my patients use properly because i do not give narcotics for migraines. .ltimate ok -- host: ok. caller: i do not give narcotics generally for low back pain because -- here is my feeling. i think about 1/10 of the population as a propensity to medication,dent on and otherpioid drugs things. you do not know who they are when is a walk into your office. if you're not objective about their pain and about the condition that produced it and the use of the medication, you are taking a risk that a person is going to become a demand of opioids. it does not -- this is across all social classes. i mean, it has taken care

quietly in this day because without strong alcohol laws in utah. giving them behind the curtain to permanent people and less prominent people, they drift from doctor to doctor. host: i have to leave it there. liz essley whyte, listening to him, what do you think about the reporting you have done? : size what he is saying with a lot of the reporting we have done. throughout the 1990's, we saw a loss call retractable pain. -- laws called retractable pain acts. they said pain was undertreated and if your doctor will do not prescribing opioid to a patient, you do to refer them to another doctor who will. in 26 -- in tennessee in 2014,

it was a possible cause of huge increase in number of drug addicted babies being born and babies who are born with the drawing from opioids that their mothers have been on. having high-pitched screams and it is really sad. decided, let's repeal this retractable pain act. one of the groups that came out americanfunded, the cancer society network came out with lobbyists to oppose repeal. they viewed it as necessary to evend cancer patients' use though the repeal of the law one not have affected them. they even until recently advertise on the website if you were a corporate donor you got one on one sit down with the policy team and a chance to talk about legislative synergy.

host: go ahead. caller: my life has been ruined over this. toave been in pain from 1995 2002. i couldn't control my pain with minimal peels pill -- pills. sometime -- pills. sometimes i need none and sometimes 2 and sometimes 100. in physical leg therapy after knee replacement. my pain went from aspirin to a bottle of oxycontin and still being in pain. here is the deal. i spent 15 minutes in the office with a doctor. they do not have a clue. if i am addicted to drugs, they send you for 90 days to recover. i needed to be in a situation

where they can see my pain and figure out how to treat it i have gone in public where i pass out and have seizures. i have been arrested because i've had seizures and went crazy over the pain. then i went to jail and i blacked out and they sent me to a hospital and got my pain under control and i was normal for two or three days. i cannot spend 15 minutes with a doctor and get it under control when i made 15 days for somebody can actually see what i go through. it is unbelievable. lost a my savings and kids. i am bed ridden. i can take almost no drugs. , iried to walk to the store pass out and have seizures. i basically cannot get out of bed. it is ridiculous because i am getting drugs when i do not need it.

and when i need it, i need 10 times what the patch gives me. bed, but to get out of if i sit around for a couple of days, -- host: sorry there. robert. go ahead, robert. caller: unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago, down in our neighborhood, a person overdosed and died in a car that was really upsetting to the people in the neighborhood. if the industry has lobbied against marijuana legalization? i know it has his own trade-offs and problems. concerned that it will be used as alternatives or to supplement where people can use less opioids and other painkillers? if you could answer that. host: sure, robert.

guest: there are certainly people who are saying that the drug industry is coming out against marijuana legalization or planning to. there are others who are saying they plan to take over the marijuana industry. i have seen -- i have not seen significant evidence of either one yet. i think except for the ballot ,easures in the last election it was certainly a turning point because now a number of people are seeing that states can have access to legal marijuana. host: john in north miami beach, florida. good morning to you. are you there? you are on the air. caller: sorry. . used to smoke opium there was a lady who i knew who brought it back, i do not know how much she got it. we smoked opium for like six months. a nurse over there. we had a lot of fun.

we got smashed every night. in the morning, we went to our respective jobs. nothing happened and did the same thing over and over. and we said,n out try to get some more. she said, i cannot get it. ok, that is fine. there were no to draw since the dutch withdrawing -- withdrawal symptoms. all of a sudden, out of the clear blue, i went to a doctor and he said he now hide. i explained i had taken opioids or opium, whenever you want to call it, i am not an expert on it. he said, you have hypertension. what we are going to do is give a resulta blocker and benzomean -- been so -- called valiant.

it was a poison to me. i cannot go more than an hour without it. and then he said, we will change it to ativan. when i did my research, it was a bit so dapper main -- benzo also. and then a non-generic. i was addicted to that. . had withdrawal symptoms i had sweats. i read that benzos are harder to win --w from then hair heroin. i got all the stuff but it took me months. i went down for my 30 milligrams toay, it was actually close 100. i started breaking the pills until finally one morning i woke up and felt good, felt good for a week, no relapses.

that was 30 years ago. benzo really got me hooked. do anything toot me. i will like to hear your comments on this. host: liz essley whyte> not know of anybody who smokes opium these days. people start with a painkillers and graduate to heroin. i will say that benzos and opioids today are a lethal, toxic combination. a number of states have addressed both together because they are so dangerous in causing overdoses. host: congress recently acted on this. what did it they do and did the drug companies have influence over the legislation? congressis summer, passed a bill to get more medication treatment in an

a drug overdose reversal into the hands of state agencies and more responders. they do not provide a lot of funding and they recently added it in. one of the things they managed to do in the course was to the rebateseak from that pharmaceutical companies normally have to pay to the federal government for medicaid for abuse to true drugs. that was worth $75 million. it was a 75 million dollar break for drugmakers for these types of drugs which are supposed to be harder to abuse and some people say it is the solution to others saying -- host: lori in texas. good morning. caller: good morning.

liz essley whyte is awfully young. in the 1980's, they started this and people were committing suicide because of they cannot handle their pain medication. what started this all this time is sunday group to -- sanjay gu pta and he is with the democrats and his son died of an opioid overdose. his happened is he called best friend and said he was going to go out with his girlfriend and they would take this oxycontin and they would drink. his best friend was a doctor instead do not do that. oh, we are careful. well, the guy did it twice and he told his best friend and he died. doctor gupta had a meeting with the clintons and wanted to

put a stop to all of this. on paine the then, i am medication, i need to be on pain medication. when it they had more -- when they had none all on it, i took myself off. now that i've needed, my doctors are scared to even prescribe anything to me. my husband, he has taken himself off of everything. and here you have to go to a specialist and i talking about like $300 for specialist that does not check your blood, does not check your weight, your blood pressure, just gives you your prescriptions and might check your urine and out the door you go. are: liz essley whyte, there folks cracking down on the doctors themselves? why are doctors are telling prescriptions?

doctors arenk responding to the increasing level of overdoses and impact the opioid crisis is having. more and more doctors are realizing these drugs come with inherent risks, and are being more cautious about starting people on opioids which may papal say that should -- many people say it should've been done. host: caroline, good morning. doctorsa lot of these put people on these drugs because once you have taken them, you have to clue me in every month, they're guaranteed a doctor's visit pay. i've had to sister lost on both sides of -- two sister-in-laws on both sides to die from the drugs doctors have given them. they walked around like something is. opium and marijuana are both plants.

but opium is habit-forming. i have fibromyalgia and they put wasn -- and told me it nothing to be concerned about. i had to work myself off of them. there is toohink much money being made on opium and that's a reason why they are trying to get rid of marijuana in some states to legalize it there is money to be made. host: we will talk about that. liz essley whyte, you mentioned it. how much are drug companies making for-profits? billions. last year, billions in sales. a lot of the blockbuster drugs like oxycontin have racked up tens of billions of dollars over years and are now expanding. "the l.a. times" have a stories expanding overseas and getting doctors to prescribe them, just

not in the u.s. the u.s. is the largest market and they are reaching out and going abroad. host: what about stay attorney general holding the drug companies accountable? guest: states attorney general's have issued a number of lawsuits against them. in 2000 -- back in 2007 and they played guilty to misstating the risk of abuse and addiction for their drug and paid $600 million in fines. there been other lawsuits as well. since then, drugmakers like pfizer have ramped up contributions to state attorney associations. we have seen out of that a number of attorney general's get on board with this. there is heavy lobbying going on. host: new hampshire where the opioid crisis was part of the

presidential campaign. john, good morning. thank you for taking my call. there is a serious problem up here. do inlot of that has to my own opinion is when the economy crashed and totally jobs leftd all of the of the state, people would just go into distrust mode. rather than suicide, they , theylly thanks to god turned to opioids. to opioids.ed it was a way of dealing with the crisis. on a second the note, i have seizures, bad seizures. seizures to a point where i've

broken my back. it is so violent. i have had a shoulder replacement, brain bleeds. i am on opioids for continued was basis. i do it as prescribed by the doctor, well-controlled and i go to a pain clinic. they count to my pills and do a urine test. i take them as prescribed and i do not abuse them. reason, there was a restriction on medication. my quality of life would be miserable. i would not being to function. host: john, your personal comments reflect a poll taken by pfizer foundation reported on , it says a large number of americans experience serious pain and the vast majority although whoever used , they workkillers

and it improves their quality of life. that is john story. and louisiana. good morning, greg. ma'am, good morning. i want to make a comment on this. i go to a pain management dr. and i have rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia. is thet i feel like federal government has put so many restrictions on it and it the v.a. in force of the laws and they have a proper place in this and they handle what they are supposed to do and do what they are supposed to do. they have made it so strict on doctors that now in louisiana, i do not know everywhere, but people have to go to a pain management doctor.

you cannot find a doctor, hardly any doctors like internal medicine, family practices, things like that they even painribe pain medicines on management type situations like they used to. what i feel like is, i understand that the v.a. hasn't their place and they do good -- havestopping -- do their place and they do good work in stopping people from going doctor to doctor. i agree with that. and thee it so hard main thing i want to make is i told my wife a well back -- a back,ack, when -- while when they made us a restrict on this a few years ago, i told my wife