public service by a america's cable television companies. it is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> fcc commissioner mean young clyburn. .-mignon clyburn as you move from the minority into the majority of the commission, what are your biggest concerns? mignon clyburn it is great to be here today. people have been talking about this a lot in the last couple of weeks. a position i am unfamiliar with. as you know, i spent 11 years on my state public utility commission in south carolina. if you know anything about south carolina, it is a state that does not have the political balance on its commission. i was either one of one or one of sevenor two

depending on things. it is not an uncommon place for me. what i feel and what i hope we will have going forward is the need to really address the communications of this nation. there is a lot of work to do when it comes to broadband coverage, mobile coverage is something i care about in particular. really connecting communities and really bridging these digital divides. those are the things that i care about and i trust that those will not have partisan leanings. host peter slen: do you plan on serving out your term? ms. clyburn: i plan on completing my term which is on the 30th of june. as you know, this part of the i do nots something necessarily have that much of a say in. as tradition would have it, that particular post -- one of the features is one where the minority leader has a say in.

i read some things in the paper but i am not sure what will happen with that. i have enjoyed my last heaven and a half years. it has been the highlight of my professional life. i have been able to influence and in some cases change policy directives i believe for the betterment of those that previously did not have a voice seereviously did not themselves as beneficiaries in the communications space. i am very proud of that and would love to continue to serve. and i am comfortable with this -- but that is not necessarily or i should say it is not a decision that i could make personally. what i have enjoyed it and i think my record speaks for itself. host peter slen: you have about a month left of being in the majority. what is the agenda for the fcc in the next month?

askedyburn: we have been by the leadership to not make any moves, age or mousse unless we have total consensus. the last month and a half or so we have been going through items that we feel that we can agree on. we have been going through and green lighting issues and concerns that i think push our agenda forward. i do not think that we will crank back up into full gear honestly until after the meeting and probably in february. and we will see where things go from here. host peter slen: let us bring in david kaut of communications daily into our conversation. mr. kaut: one of the things republicans have been most clear about is undoing your net neutrality and how you regulate broadband.

what would be your biggest concerns if they move ahead with their promises to undo all of that? proud of that am decision. it was uphill by the courts. turnkey for consumers and companies. it is built on the strongest framework that will ensure the freedoms and opportunities that we honestly take for granted. we are the envy of the rest of the world because we have a framework that says if i have my own device, i can use it if it is not harmful to the network. if i have a business or an entity or a webpage or an internet service provider with whom i have opposing interests that that provider cannot discriminate or prefer someone else's content or website or business over mine. this is very empowering and enabling. and this has opened the door for millions of people, 4 million people weighed in and spoke. we joke about it but they

literally did crash the website when they wade in and that is a good thing because it shows just how significant and important this decision is. innovation and positive spirit of freedom and openness to continue. everyoneof what i hope will be mindful of is that we have certainty now. the rules were based on principles that we have been guided by since 2005. and if there are disruptions thein that, then honestly, rest of the ecosystem could be compromised. i am hopeful, even though -- i did not necessarily agree with everything that we voted to approve but overall, i thought it was an incredible framework that will allow this country to be the leader in the world when it comes to innovation and investment and opportunity for

those in communities large and small. and i will be vigilant and vocal in wishing that to continue. mr. kaut: do you think there is much of a chance. they want to get rid of the title to broadband reclassification which is the traditional phone regulation of broadband. do you think there is much room for any type of compromise on the underlying net neutrality rules in terms of how you deal with this? ms. clyburn: one of the things that people do not often talk about is that 700 plus regulations and rules that we dismissed of. this is not your mothers or fathers type -- title two. this is very different. it is mindful of this evolutionary nature that the broadband ecosystem has to offer us.

it is not the same. the title might read the same but the application is incredibly different. and people want and need certainty. when we talk about what our goals and objectives are at the fcc in terms of connecting america, what tools do we use to encourage and to ensure that are building the infrastructure needed to enable all of these incredible opportunities? if you do not have a backstop when it comes to poll attachments. that is part of what this framework enables. what does encourage those or citiesto build on and municipalities to have reasonable poll attachment rates? what mechanism do we used to encourage all of this? that is why i was thing we have

to be careful and mindful of some of the things on what we need to further enhance or improve on. hopefully we will take a scalpel approach versus a sledgehammer. i think those would have some negative, unintended consequences. spoken to the you current fcc commissioners on the republican side on what their agenda will be? they will be controlling the agenda. about how they want to approach things in the next year and are there areas you are already looking at an where you may be able to work with them. ms. clyburn: i have not spoken to them since the election when it comes to policies. we are very clear. we have an interesting, interactive relationship. many of the positions are clear and have been on the table for a long time. 90% of our votes are unanimous. some of the critical votes have

fallen along party lines. i would say that there are no real surprises. i have continued to be hopeful. we just had one particular decision that when it comes to a particular provider that was not following our rules when it comes to our universal service, and the commissioner and i, he is the person you were referencing that is said to be the likely interim chair, we issued a joint statement because we want our universal service regime to be one that is clear and away from fraud and abuse. when an entity does that, we can agree on that. we have had times when we have come together on certain items. but again, it is about connecting america and ensuring that our funds are appropriately spent.

thatmindful of the changes are on the horizon that i am hopeful that the spirit in which i have grown accustomed when it comes to regulation will be realized regardless of the tilt in partisan or political power will end. host peter slen: aren't there strict rules and how you can have a conversation with fellow commissioners? what do you think about reforming that now that the new administration is coming in? have sunshinee do restrictions. i can one on one speak to a commissioner. when it goes to three and there is a majority, then you would have to go through noticing requirements. this is an issue when it comes to sunshine reform. i have been talking about this for a long time. i was a chair for a number of years for the joint board. poisedn if you are not

to make a final decision, what was happening was a strange, round robin approach meaning that if i am on the phone and another commissioner is on the telephone, then a third commissioner on the board wants to call in, one of us would have to rotate off. not a final decision-making place. we are a joint board. and all of the commissioners cannot weigh in. that is very inefficient. i believe that hopefully that the congress will look at modifying those rules again. transparency is key particularly when we come to final decision-making. but when you are talking about joint boards and other entities -- panels or whatever it that we have on the fcc that are informative, to have these strict rules in place is inefficient and does not make a lot of sense. common sense reform when it comes to that will be a positive

and i look forward to working with my colleagues in congress towards that end. host peter slen: has it gotten more partisan in the sec? -- fcc? ms. clyburn: it has gotten more interesting and more tense. say that there was not as much i will stick with the word when it comes to our interactions. the of that is that we view application side of the regulatory equation a little differently. i think at the end of the day that we want the same results. we want our communities to be able to thrive and the robust. we want to a functional marketplace when it comes to providers and the company's that we have some oversight of but we do disagree and sometimes very

visibly when it comes to the application of that. i am hopeful that everyone will take a pause and really will reset the narrative. myause my natural posturing, natural comfort level is not one of intense confrontation. i really want to do what is best. best for do what is the communities, large and small, particularly those that have been on the wrong side of the opportunity divide. and look at how we can ensure that the communications act and all that it instructs us to do, how can we make that applicable to all people no matter where they live and that is the most important thing to me. mr. kaut: you mentioned the opportunity of agenda that you had. you are adopted a lifeline overhaul order that among other things extended those subsidies

-- extended subsidies to low income consumers. how concerned are you that the republicans will hamstring that or cut it back? a 2.5 billiony at dollar budget. rep. collins: -- republicans want to cap that. ms. clyburn: you have outlined the only difference that we had to this. the application works the same because we are very mindful. i live within my budget. i could call it a cap because i only make a certain amount after taxes but i live within a budget. intensely involved with the wording or the freezing of certain things. i am intensely passionate about this program being reformed.

getting the reforms implemented so more competition and providers will way into this space so there will be more opportunities for individuals to really get connected. an incredibly great job when it comes to the infrastructure side of the equation with what we call the "connect america fund", the e takes care of some of the infrastructure and and what some people call anchor institutions. we have not done a fabulous job when it comes to the affordability side of the equation and we can build all of the incredible, palatial broadband infrastructure that would be the envy of the world and if people cannot afford to use it, then we have only tackled a part of it and have tolt an incredible bridge

nowhere. that is why i am passionate about the lifeline program and why i was not enamored with a cap. will we say to the person who comes after that two point $2 billion that you need not apply because we have capped out. that would be a side stage of affairs that we would have to tell the next person in line that they would not have the opportunities that their neighbors have. and that is why i was for a budget that gives you more deck security as a quote -- as opposed to a hard cap. host peter slen: another cause is a programpioned not many people are familiar with. for "phonecampaign injustice" which you have now changed to phone justice. why don't you explain this issue and what you are hoping to achieve. ms. clyburn: millions of

americans do not realize that there is a severe economic crisis and burden and a market dysfunction when it comes to the inmate calling services regime. if you do not know about that, then great for you but there are millions of people in america that have at least one family member who is serving time who is behind bars. for the last several years, what has been happening is this incredibly sad and perverse and egregious structure where inmates or their families mostly are paying incredibly high rates. in a couple of instances, we have heard that one person paid $17 a minute for a call. that is an anomaly but it has happened more than once.

but typically, people who have a person or someone in prison and that includes the attorneys that represent these individuals, they pay in excess of one dollar a minute. that is unaffordable to most of us and that is incredibly unaffordable when it comes to these families. the majorities of these families with someone in prison are on fixed income and many of these families are really experiencing severe economic hardships need to keep in touch. and so, you are seeing and infrastructure that because of some of the -- i called them kickbacks, some people may push back on that but the amount of money, the proportion of moneys has been going to some of these facilities and they have been enriched by this structure. there is no economic incentive to be the low cost provider.

there is all the incentive under this framework for there to be and that iscosts -- passed on to the families and there is an incredible egregious cycle that no one wins here. less than 40% of those inmates keep in touch with their families on a regular basis because they cannot afford these fees. it is something i have been working on for a number of years. we got a little more sanity when it comes to intrastate rates but a high percentage of those calls facilities are out-of-state and families are paying skyhigh prices. -- it is a regime where no one wins a but for the providers and some of the facilities and we need to call

more attention to this. host peter slen: what is the hold up getting reform in this area? ms. clyburn: we have a stay in the court and one of the challenges is whether or not we have authority when it comes to intrastate rates. there has not been any argument when it comes to interstate or the federal side of it but whether or not we have authority, we believe we do when it comes to regulating or monitoring in trust eight rates. that has been a part of the holdup. i am hopeful that the agency if weirm its position and are given our day in court, that we challenge because at the end of the day, regardless of where the call is made to and from, families deserve fair rates. societal benefit if people keep in touch. go of those incarcerated

back into the facility after five years and a large part of it is that they cannot afford to keep in touch with their loved ones. it is something we should look at. i believe it is important and it is costing us dearly, that revolving door. it has to stop. one way we can do that is to have reasonable and fair rates and that is what we are fighting to get. mr. kaut: in your view, what is tumblr's legacy -- what is tom wheeler's legacy? is an incredible individual. when i think about him i kind of smile as i say -- this person of been on the cusp of two the most incredibly life-changing when it comes to communications in the u.s. industries that we now take for granted. cable as well as cell phones.

abouta person passionate providing opportunities, looking through a current day lens with some legacy background. and i believe that he has been an incredibly effective chairperson, moving the needle, challenging all of us. roughly some feathers inside and outside of the agency and i think that is a good thing. i think your regulator should be one who not only is in tune with the times but who will challenge all of us, consumers and companies alike to be better at it. and so, i think that even if you do not agree with every decision or every posture or every speech he has made, he has made us work -- portfolios and i think history will be kind to

him. host peter slen: u.s. about chairman wheeler, what do you think about the interim chairman? ms. clyburn: he is incredibly bright. i do not know where he gets all of his social references from. if you ever watch some of his speeches -- he is incredibly witty. but he is extremely bright. he is committed i believe to ensure that america is connected. i mentioned to you that there are places where we agree and where we do agree, we are embracing of that. or avenuesome places amre we diverge but i hopeful that if our predictions are true that we will meet and

come together and really not allow one or two things where we might differ to cause us not to move ahead unanimously with an item that i think would be for the good of the country. i start from the 50 yard line. i do not start from a place or a posture where i am assuming that i will get 100% of everything that i want. -- compromise is not my middle name but it is a posture from where i start. i am willing and i believe in reciprocity. mr. kaut: there have been some rumors even that the republicans are taking order and one of the democrats, a commissioner has not been reconfirmed. you said that you intend to hold -- fulfilled your term. is there any chance that you might quit before then if it would deny the republicans a

quorum to act? hearingurn: i have been some of that. i'm -- how how i am i am wired. i am wired to make a difference in an atmosphere that will allow on opportunities. i am not looking to get 100% of anything that i ask for. that weking for hope can agree. i am not planning some type of -- again, thank you for giving me that credit for thinking in that way that is incredibly nimble but that is not something i am planning. i take might both seriously. and in that, it is not trying to be cute or crafty. not my makeup.

i am here to serve. i may natural public servant and i do not think that part of that is a grant vision of being a disruptor. host peter slen: what is your advice to the incoming interim chair? ms. clyburn: start at the 50 yard line. he inclusive. attempt to find common ground. if you disagree on a few things, do not throw out an entire item. you should not compromise your core principles because i will not. when it talks about those four killers in the communications act which includes competition protections, those are very important and those should never be on the table when it comes to a compromise. but i really think what has is that we talked to. we had meetings every couple of months with my colleagues.

and we are tempted through staff with detailed to work out items where we could agree. i think if we start from that vantage point -- what is the goal? thesis statement of the item? if we work from there i do think that at the end of the day we can come to consensus in a less contentious way. we can vote on orders that would continue to be the envy of the world and that is my goal. and that is my advice to anyone leading the agency. host peter slen: time for one more question. since i am rumormongering, there has been some speculation about your future plans. youthere any thoughts it might have about your future including possibly running for congress in a particular seat in

south carolina is a distinct -- if a certain distinguished gentleman should leave? answer byn: let me saying this -- whatever is next for me, it will include and embrace all of the experiences i have had over the last seven and half plus 11 years on the state commission. i am very comfortable in this space. i am very moved and excited about connecting communities and serving. about what excited the intersection of technology and -- can bring. whatever is next for me, i will embrace it and i assure you that you will see continuity when it comes to my core principles and what mys and no matter title will or will not be, that it will definitely be in line

with what you have seen of what you haven -- seen of mignon clyburn. host peter slen: commissioner mignon clyburn on the sec, thank you for being on the communicators. announcer 1: c-span, were history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a service by the- cable companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. congressman jim mcdermott is retiring after more than 25 years in congress. since he has represented the seventh district in washington state. earlier this month we spoke with

him about his career and future plans. greta: congressman jim mcdermott, democrat of washington state, representing the seventh congressional district for 28 years. why did you decide to retire? rep. mcdermott: well, i have seen a lot of my friends die, and i have seen a lot of my friends in the congress lose, and i just decided that there was a time in your life, if there was anything else you wanted to do, i would go do it. in three weeks i will be 80. and i said to myself, if i live to 97, my father is 93, but i don't think i will live that long. there are other things i want to do. i'm not retiring, i'm just going to do other things. greta: what are you going to do? rep. mcdermott: i hope to teach. i have an engagement with the university of washington, the jackson school of internat