this week on q&a saudi arabian women's rights democrat. she talks about her book, "daring to drive: a saudi woman's awakening." brian: you have a book, why did you write this?

manal: tough question. i never thought of writing a book. when i gave a speech, people gave me a standing ovation. this never happened in the history of that conference. this lady came to me and she said, when are you going to read your story. i thought who would ever be interested in reading about my insignificant life. that started the idea of writing this book. brian: when was that? ? where did you get the speech and why? --manal: theyy to tell theirt story. brian: let's start from the beginning. where were you born?

manal: i was born in 1979. brian: where were your parents born? anal: she met my father and mecca. my father is from mecca. manal: he has to perform certain rituals that would make your faith complete. brian: on the screen what is that? home. that is my that is mecca. brian: who can go there and white today go there and how important is it?

manal: the two holiest city is dashed cities for the muslims. only muslims go there. we go therefore once-in-a-lifetime or you can go for a visit. there is a smaller version you can do any time of the year. it literally means to visit the holy site of mecca. to you have any idea how many people have died there or in medical? manal: i can'the remember the last time this security is very strict they always have hundreds of

thousands of people organizing to make it smoother. you have to do it once in your lifetime. when you talk about one million muslims in a small city the size of mecca between mountains and a valley, accidents happen. brian: what do muslims get out of going there? what is the purpose? muslims, you have to hit the pillars. the first pillar is to believe in god. mohammed is his prophet. is last pillar of islam performing faith. full faithfully.

manal: you don't have to be there more than a week. people like to spend more time in mental. brian: who pays for it? manal: everyone pays for themselves. we believe if you pray, god answers our prayers. it is important for the muslims to go to mecca. , but ifpray one year you go to mecca you can pray one week in the deeds you get being and praying and mecca is with a lifetime. brian: i read your book. i am not sure, maybe i missed it, but what would you say your muslim faith is today? manal: i am muslim. i believe in god. i am against radical islam.

one of the things that is in your book every time the prophet is mentioned are the initials p bu h, why do you do that every time you talk about the prophet muhammad? forl: it is sign of respect the profit when you mention him. if i mentioned the name of any it.it, we have to mention it is asking things from god for giving us and for leading humankind to faith and to god and to the truth. brian: what is the most important thing to you about being a muslim? manal: a lot of things. i think the piece you get being a muslim. the piece you got believing in god. peoplenteresting that

have this misconception about islam that the idolater that -- that the ideology we have today is hate. it is a submission to god. muslim the first thing is, you say peace be with you. it is called for modules and called for good deeds. a lot of good things in any society that they want to have here. what we lost from islam is the preaching and the scholars are trivial things that made us lose the sense of islam, which is being in peace with yourself and being in place with -- peace with each other and mercy. we lost that when it became political and used as a political weapon. brian: when did that start? when: throughout history

it started being used political. when you use one against the other and call them infidels. , and used to gain power that is when it comes dangerous. brian: where do you live now? live in saudi.o i moved to divide. then we moved to sydney australia. brian: that is where you live now? we livehat is where now. i marry with my second husband and we have a boy. brian: your first marriage ended in divorce, and how is the young man you had the duke -- the first son? manal: my first one is 11 and my second will turn three next month. brian: why did you pick australia? manal: long story short, my

husband is working there. todid not want to go back his country and we wanted to have a better life for our son. brian: you talk in the book a lot about your divorce, why? , ial: not a lot in the book just talked about it because it was so difficult for a woman to get divorced because she is not supposed to. i did not get support from the family. they were against it. it was an abusive relationship. the saudi court is not a friendly place to women. from the court and from the reallyystem am it is difficult. for me, when i got divorced, it was liberating. brian: you talked about how you met your husband in the first place in another relationship are interested in that did not

develop. you must that and went to that all happened? you'reknow a man interested in before you met your husband and you talk about your personal life, what year did all that happened? husband was all. i didn't have any interest in men before. i grew up inanal: a relationship with everyone was related. a woman was not allowed to see men. i only saw my men and my brother . the first time i interacted with another man was when i got my first job at 23. to see that iting can talk to them for the first time in my life.

i had so many crushes. but it would last for a week. later on for me, i was not allowed to be introduced to man and even talk to them. situation andarre i had bizarre feelings. brian: what are the rules and where do the will -- rules come from for women within and saudi arabia? manal: her first place is her home. not education, the mosque, her home. it is highly encouraged for us to stay home. if i ever want to leave the house, it should be for urgency or something really important, and i have to take permission to leave the house. my husband or my father. also segregation between the sexes.

you find it everywhere. if you go to a store or a bank or a government office. always the men and women are separated. when it went to the university, i had never seen my teachers were women. this is how i used to see my teachers. we want about to talk to them. the teacher would call and ask the question on our behalf. this is how you grow up. also there is a list of things you can't do just being a woman was really huge. do anything in public. my city was very conservative to cover my face and not to talk to men. it was not encouraged to use our first names. call my name if my

father was outside. i was not allowed to be sandy outside. they have to come -- standing outside. he called my father's name, he didn't call my name. the list goes on and on. brian: going to show a picture. we have still photographs. is in saudi arabia. they are showing their hands and feet which is different now. we were fully covered. my city was really conservative. brian: what is the difference from what we're looking at? manal: this is the new generation. they don't accept to cover their face. worked, i insisted on wearing colorful scarves.

was totally different than everyone else. are pushinge girls the rules to choose the close they want, the decent or the modest close they want. it should not be black. brian: how much of what saudi arabia requires from women is because of the prophet lay down these laws years ago? manal: how much from -- from their own rules? manal: it is all about tsterpretation of the sec that come from the prophet mohammed. in portonthat are

that they are in -- important is that they are not into 17. a woman when she travels has a man companion. it is very dangerous when you travel. and thenl be killers using camels. you need a guide to travel with you to protect do. are taken from textbooks from 1400 years ago. reinterpreted to meet the current situation. that is the problem with the scholars in islam when they say you cannot interpret it anyway but it should be done exactly the way it was done in the prophet muhammad time. cutting hands for example. this debate has been going on in the scholars.

it terrifies me when they still insist that we cut hands. brian: have never known anyone who had their hands cut off? known, but it't has been carried out in saudi arabia. it has been carried out. brian: what if you find out you are a homosexual, what happens? manal: you get killed and saudi arabia. you cannot announce you are homosexual in saudi arabia. i stay away from religion because i am in peace with every single different faith and belief and sexual orientation. but if i mention these things in my country, you cannot discuss homosexuality in my country. it is taboo and we cannot talk about it in saudi arabia. i keep these beliefs to myself and i tried to push the things

that i believe should change in my country. explain -- andu you mentioned this about your mother and father and your othersand teachers and that beat you as you were growing up. when you say beat you and your ex-husband, what does that mean? define beating. up, it wasing expected to discipline your kids with a stick, a bamboo stick. it was expected that if you don't behave you are disciplined . we were brought up this way. mom and dad would discipline you and the house if you thought we misbehaved. the same thing happens in school. one man was killed because his

teacher beat him badly and then they had to ban the beating in the school. the beating in the house was not criminalized until recently. there was a domestic violence law that was passed. stop thisod start to culture. the physical abuse it stops. brian: who beat you most in your lifetime? manal: my sister. she beat me the most. brian: where was the most severe beating, leading up to whether or not that was your ex-husband. -- husband? manal: had my first beating itwing up in saudi arabia was physical abuse not only emotional. brian: what would his physical abuse be like? manal: physical abuse at the

hands, punching. brian: did you have any place to go when your ex-husband was punching you? a woman go to police and reports a man, they would summon him and he had to sign a pledge promising not to beat her again. the problem is, she gets into the same abuser. a girl was 29, she was beaten, she complained, and her father complained against her to drop the charges and she was sent to jail, not her brought -- brother. later, she was living in an abusive house and they put crimeck in jail for the of being absent from the abuser's house. if there are shelters for

women in saudi arabia, they are poorly managed. they treat abuse women as criminals. shelter,is in the shoots a guardian and that is the abuser who signs the papers. a girl ran away from her abusive family and they caught her and sent her back handcuffed and duct taped on her mouth and she is in a correctional facility for women. this is what happens to abused women in my country. -- play want to place for you and interview i did who was with the ambassador to the united states and we talked about women in the saudi society.

>> the most prize woman today and saudi arabia is a woman with a job. she is encouraged by her parents to go and find a job because she brings an income and they don't have to spend money on her. her siblings looked up to her and want to do like her. equally importantly, she is sought after by suitors. i think this is what is going to going to comment events together. the social change is what will drive these factors. brian: what do you think of what he said? that was 11 years ago. where were you 11 years ago? manal: i was working. brian: what do you think of that? manal: i agree that social change will change saudi arabia.

this is the beautiful thing about saudi arabia, the government is so into education. i got free education. women are now allowed to go for their degrees fully covered by the government. our problem is is the frustration they go back home and they don't find a job because we are only 14%. they are 14% of the workforce now. in societyated woman and they can't find jobs. i believe a woman can reach -- cannot reach her full potential unless she can find her independence from the manpower she can't really on her life and on her decisions. agree, and educated, working

woman is what saudi arabia needs today. brian: i want to show you old iramco.f a ramco -- a arabia.of saudi faith but somewhere within these far-reaching sans was the key to a richer life for the saudi arabs who so long have known a scarcity. perhaps this country so productive on the service might contain minerals below the surface, including oil. on may 29, 1933, after weeks of discussions, there was a meeting on the outskirts. it was there that government officials representing his majesty find 320,000 square

miles. this was the starting point of a new american business venture abroad. brian: reportedly, that company has worked between one and $10 trillion. no one knows for sure. what is it? it used to be the arabian american oil company. the government bought all the shares. it became fully owned by the saudi government. now it is known as the arabian oil company. oils in charge of producing , and all the oil is under their control. it used to be the largest producer of oil in the word. america then took over. saudis.lly owned by it has not changed in the last

80 years. are you blaming america for the discrimination against women? the interesting thing. when the company started, i knew women who work there before it was owned by the saudis. there were a lot of discriminator flaws by americans -- laws by americans in the country -- company. maybe they created their own rules. they were a secretive company. they kept a low profile. i don't like bad publicity. profile. to keep a low in my book, there is a whole chapter and it brings up policies that are unjust and discriminating for not being a woman, but also for being a saudi woman working there. brian: when you were working

there, what were the years? 2002 and quitd in in 2012. place for me and class that a job. i was very lucky to get a job. because for me at that time, there were no jobs to work anywhere. brian: what is the difference between living in the compound and living in the rest of saudi arabia? 22, a society woman was i love to live in the compound. i had to live outside the compound. the woman would -- and the government wouldn't let me there as a woman. the government also wouldn't

alone -- allow me to rent a hotel room without a man. in 2007, out of policy, the company about a woman to live in the compound. that is when i got my divorced and found a place to stay. where is your son from the first marriage? manal: he is in saudi arabia with his grandmother. brian: net with his father? manal: he took them from you when i got married again and he is living with his grandparent. brian: when you get to see him? manal: i always go to see him. brian: so you can go in and out of saudi arabia even though you're not living there? manal: i wish i could go back to saudi arabia. my second marriage is not recognized by the government. permission from

the minister of interior, which they were not grant me because of my activism. take my second son to saudi arabia. my first son cannot visit me. he cannot leave the country. brian: when can he leave the country? he leaves with his manal: --manal: heelys with his father. brian: when is he independent? is 21.when he hopefully when he gets there he can speak to himself and demand the right to visit his mother. brian:, intensity been in prison? manal: just one time. sometimes they write it is multiple times, but it is one time.

i was in detention and they released me. i was in forme driving. brian: is that a term they use in saudi arabia? manal: driving white female. brian: what do they mean by that ? manal: it is a woman driving a car. brian: why is that a big deal? manal: they will argue that it is a society issue. , in i go out and drive didn't get stopped. noould tell them there is law that prevents me from driving. the traffic status code does not define the gender of the license holder. they insist they cannot give you a drivers license. .hey say it is a custom

it is complicated and saudi arabia. i always think it is a political issue. political decision to allow me to drive or not. brian: what year did you do the famous video? manal: 2012. sorry, 2011. brian: six years ago? manal: six years ago. brian: you are behind the wheel in saudi arabia. where are you? manal: 10 minutes from where i used to live. [video clip] brian: explain what we are

watching. manal: a woman driving. brian: who is shooting the video? friendit was my activist . i never met her and i met her because of this movement. brian: what impacted this video have? this onhen we put youtube it was number one trending. everyone was watching what was going on with this video. i met people shooting the video and i wanted to show landmarks in the city. we prove that it can happen. brian: what led up to your decision to do this? manal: in 2011, everybody wanted to bring social change.

there was a lot of frustration with corruption and in just laws. in 2009, in new hampshire, the live free or die state, i got my drivers license. when i went back to saudi arabia -- i bought my car in 2007, and four years later, i finished paying the car loan, even with drivers license, i cannot drive it. i must got kidnapped once late at night looking for a taxi and i couldn't find a driver to take me back home. all of this frustration with all of these years that i live in a country where there is no public transportation. a woman to leave the house or do

anything in her life, she needs a car. to function or to use his car, she needs a man. the movement was june 17, coming in a few days, and this movement is simple. we said june 17, we will go out and drive because we want to normalize women driving. you never see women driving in the streets in a huge country. we wanted to change this by this movement. the movement is going on, it never stopped. we're still campaigning for the right to drive. the act's civil disobedience because women are not supposed to drive. we show that we are able and capable of driving our own lives and being in the drivers seat of our own destiny.

brian: that people saw you in a car they would yell also it's a nasty things to you? manal: that is when i was walking alone on the street. \when i drive the car, no one talks to us. they would just talk to his wife or the people around him. brian: why do the men care so much about women being covered? manal: in saudi arabia, it is a global issue when it comes to a control over a woman's body. it is a battlefield for men. yet the do this in a certain way we have to cover up because your body does not belong to you, it belongs to the man who owns you. how they want to look at women. this is what bothers me a lot. brian: how nasty were people to you when you were uncovered? manal: really nasty, especially in my hometown.

it was so difficult that i had to put my headscarf on my face because they would not approve women walking without covering her face. things are changing now. i can go freely now without my face being covered. especially the young generation, there helping push the believe of uncovering your face. brian: this is from a tv program "frontline" and these are the religious police. we will see this and i want you to explain who they are and what they are supposed to be doing. >> he films the man who enforce their countries islamic laws, the saudi religious beliefs. dressed in traditional islamic clothing, they patrolled the streets and shopping malls. the title is the committee for the promotion of virtue and the

prevention of vice during activists have been filming and sharing videos to expose their practices and to show ordinary saudi's standing up to them. they force women to cover themselves and drive people out of cafes to go and pray. these rules are based on a strict form of sunni islam. it is the religion on which saudi arabia was founded. brian: who are the religious police? manal: who are the religious police? brian: who picks them? manal: the government. it used to be this way. it has changed now, thankfully. i wrote a piece about it in "the new york times."

they are able to arrest people for reasons they do not understand because they have a list that they will check adherence to following these laws or the sense that they have to check, that no one is committing. they would go on the street, and if you are talking to your friends in the cafe, they would come and say you are putting on a much makeup. it was a very crowded place, and my brother put his hand around his wife. they arrested him for doing that. why do you show signs of public

affection in public? he said, i'm just protecting her from the people around her. he was arrested. they used to do these things. if you are playing is a cloud on the national day, they chased him and pushed him over the bridge. both brothers died for listening to music in their car. things have changed now. i think it was last year when they had to take the power of arrest from them. they have to call the police if they see something that is un-islamic. you are always feeling you are being watched. you are always questioned. it is always subjective.

they can insult you, call you names -- without facing any consequences. brian: during your prison experience, who arrested you and why? when they originally arrested you and put you in prison, who did that? manal: i was arrested the first time on purpose because i wanted to get arrested. the second time i was with my brother. i proved the point that i did not break a law and that they were not allowed to arrest me. the same day at 2:00 a.m. they sent the police to my house. the police could not go into the compound. i was arrested and sent to jail without a trial in 2011.

brian: where were you? manal: i was in my house in aramco. 15 minutes from where i used to live was where the prison was. brian: how long was it before you were in the cell? manal: it was right away. i did not leave with them until 4:00 a.m. even though they came at 2:00 a.m. brian: how do they treat you between the time they pick you up and the time they put you in the jail cell? manal: they had a way of interrogation. the first one said, everything is fine there just asking you some questions. then the guy disappears and things changed. another interrogation, but this when they take away your phone. they took my brother away, and they took my bag. they brought a woman prison guard in task me the same

questions. i was strip-searched when i got to the prison. by a woman, and they did not explain to me why i was there. i said, can i talk to my family? can i call a lawyer? and they refused to do that. once i am in jail, i don't know. will people know that i am in prison -- and for what? what was the crime? i managed to get a call, my sister-in-law, and she was the one managing twitter. i said tell her to tweet about it. brian: so there are men trying to be more helpful on the side of women? manal: yes, my brother is one of them. my dad is the one who got me out of jail.

brian: but you said your dad was mad at you a lot. manal: things changed. i changed growing up. brian: your family lived in poverty? manal: yes, but once you get a job and you work, it is so much easier to move out of poverty. the education is free. once you get a good job, you can move out of poverty. most of my generation, or at least the city where i live, which is poured not rich, most of my generation moved their family out of poverty. to go back -- what was the question we started with? brian: you were talking about your parents moving out of poverty. but the thing i want to get to, the prison experience -- the cockroaches.

describe the cockroaches. it is even a title of one of the chapters. manal: i hate cockroaches so much. i think all women hate cockroaches. when i mentioned cockroaches about prison, it is to tell you about how filthy it was. it was dehumanizing. it was humiliating in the prison. i was deeply shocked about women getting strip-searched and then cramming us in this room. brian: in one cell? manal: there were 12 bunkbeds in each cell. 12 bunkbeds had more than 12 women. there were kids in jail. they gave birth to the kids in jail. it was sad.

it was shocking to me, the situation there. most of the women there were not saudi's. more than 90% of the women there were not saudi's. brian: they leave the lights on their? manal: yes they leave the lights on 24 hours. the bathrooms did not have doors. there were nor mirrors, see forget what you look like. brian: the entire time no mirrors? manal: they don't allow it because you could use it as a weapon. there were kids in jail. the whole situation was humiliating. the first night i slept on the floor. i was taken from my home, interrogated, and no one told them i was there. no one explained to me what i should've have been doing.

it was staggering. it was the most shocking experience i went through. brian: did you sleep with the cockroaches? were they crawling on you? manal: over the food, over your hands, over your face. they were everywhere. they live with you. you get used to seeing them around you. brian: how long were you there? manal: i was there for nine days. brian: how did you have an international rally? manal: that video got the attention of the world. when i published that video, we were a group of women, it was not only me. i was made the face because no one else wanted to do the video. i was crazy enough to go out and make the video. the world knew me as the girl who got sent to jail for

driving. i talked to cnn before they came to my house. i picked up my phone with the reporter who did an interview a week earlier. i said these people are coming, i don't know who they are, i don't know where they are taking me -- please write about it. and she did. brian: where do you get the strength to do all this? where did you learn how to do all this -- get the attention of the media, find an agent, write a book -- all of that? where does this come from? where did you learn this? manal: i didn't even know i needed to find an agent. i knew i wanted to write a book. i wanted to drive because for me driving is a way of emancipating women.

i believe that driving is the key to change. our situations could change in saudi arabia. i had no clue that driving would be the symbol of resistance and saudi arabia. i wanted to write a book, i had no clue what to do. i talked to people around me. one friend said you need a book agent. he introduced me to a book agent. peter bernstein, my book agent. the first thing he told me, you should write a book. his father, my agent, and he said you should write a book. i just said, who would read my stories, really? brian: you give credit to a

woman, who issued? manal: i had five different collaborators. to be successful in writing a book, you need to things. the first one, finding the right agent who believes in you who will always be there -- and i was blessed to have peter as my agent. and finding the right collaborator. i had very disappointing experiences with the previous collaborators. i said, i'm done with collaborators. i do interviews for six months and then they disappear without giving me a single word. i have always worked, i wrote it in arabic and translated it into english. and then my fifth collaborator showed up after i wrote most of the book.

she had transcripts of interviews before plus my written translated passages. she did a fantastic job. i did not have faith in her at the start because i was mad at all of the previous collaborators. brian: lyric is the wife of a historian we have here all the time. the name bernstein is a jewish name. is there any irony to this that you had a jewish agent? manal: my best friends are my jewish friends. they are the most successful. they are the things that make things go. they're the most connected. i'm very proud that i have them

as my friends. someone who introduced me to my agent. and then the american jewish committee in new york. brian: why do you think that is? manal: because they have been persecuted in the past. they have been blamed for all of the evil in the world. when you really corner someone, when you persecute that someone, that makes them either choose to become radicals, adopt the fate of hate, or become really successful. that is a beautiful thing that the jews have done here. my more successful friends are the jewish friends. brian: let me ask you a couple more things. i want to show you some video of your hometown of mecca. a very rich place. lots of money. why in the world with mecca look

like this? >> i will show you have people live here. he brings his hidden camera to a salon that the edge of the holy city of mecca. >> people are living in real misery here. children, selling things. oh my god. look, it's a dump. look at the sewage. the way money is spread, it is not spread to the people. only the crumbs are spread to the people. brian: that is from frontline, saudi arabia uncovered, from 2016. manal: i agree and disagree.

we get a lot of benefits for free. i want to pay taxes and i want to get benefits because i am paying taxes, i don't want to give away from anyone. we have over 66 slums in the city of mecca. i lived on the outskirts of one of the slums. a lot of muslims come from very poor countries to mecca and they stay. most of these legal immigrants, when they stay legally, they build their houses in the mountains illegally. their children and to the schools which create enclaves of illegal immigrants and poverty. the people from mecca never had a park or infrastructure in my

city. mecca makes so much money out of religious tourism, and this money does not go to mecca to make it clean, to make it livable for its own people. people are too afraid to speak up against this. in a country with an absolute monarchy, speaking up about the distribution of wealth and corruption could get you in jail, arrested, or in so much trouble. brian: here's the second question that ties into this. a country that is a religious state, how have you kept your faith? you have people that are leading this country, a religious state, and have done all these things you just explain to us. manal: my faith has nothing to do with them. the faith they promote is not

the real faith. it is a version of faith, but the ideology of hate that we are fighting against is not the great faith. faith was used in no way to get political power. that is what i am against. when you come to the realization that your religion has been used and misused, you become angry and start to go back to the true islam that is calling for peace and coexistence, does not matter your color, tongue, or religion -- i respect you and your faith. brian: am i an infidel? manal: no, you are not infidel. anyone who doesn't believe in their interpretation of islam is an infidel.

that includes other muslim faiths, by the way. that is a version of islam. it doesn't really matter whether you are hindu, buddhist -- religions should be used to call for peace. we need a dalai lama for islam that spreads forgiveness, persevering, and love, instead of hate. brian: what you think about the atmosphere and saudi arabia? manal: it is not the true islam. it is not what he called for. calling for hate has nothing to do with islam. it is not islamic to call for the hate of the other. he had the jews living in medina. what is happening today is using islam to gain political power. to me that is unholy.

for me that is something that makes me angry. brian: do you have any idea what the leadership in saudi arabia thinks of this book? manal: finally, after years of being indoctrinated, the government is acknowledging that they made a mistake. all the religious books that we were studying are being changed. they removed the part about hate for the infidel. their egg knowledge and that after it backfired. after our own sons and daughters backfired. when you suffer more terrorist attacks -- more than it anywhere else, people are bombing

mosques. they realized they made a mistake. now there are a lot of things happening to rebel against those ideas. the problem is we did so many wrong things in the past, how do you go and undo them? when you have the same ideology being taught in saudi arabia, and then they go home with the same ideology. that is why you have radical islam on the rise. how do you undo this? that is the important question today.

we have a big responsibility for spreading the ideology of love and coexistence. brian: our guest lives in australia right now married to her second husband. how old is the young child? manal: daniel will turn three next month. brian: the name of this book is called, "daring to drive: a saudi woman's awakening." manal al-sharif, thank you for joining us. ♪ announcer: for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit our website. these programs are also available as c-span podcasts.

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: if you enjoyed this week's interview with manal al-sharif, here are some other programs you might like. two past guests talked about the relationship between the u.s. and saudi arabia. the saudi arabian ambassador to the u.s. and rachel bronson, an author. also, another discusses the investigation into the kidnapping and death of journalist daniel pearl. you can watch these any times or search our video library at www.c-span.org. next, your calls and comments on washington journal. live at 10:00 a.m., tom cotton of arkansas talking about russia and europe's current military strategy. live at noon, general speeches on behalf of the house.

tonight on the communicators -- >> private sector ceo's recognize that your i.t. group is not just a cost center but innovation ande the bottom line. we need the federal government to think that way. congressman will heard upgradebout his bill to i.t. and his puzzled for cyber national guard. >> the idea what center national guard is if you are in high school and want to study some thing around cyber security, we will give you scholarships. when you graduate, you have to

work in the federal government. out at an essay or dod, but at the department of interior, department of social security, etc.. you will do that the same amount time you got the scholarship or. when you finish your time in a book service, the private sector the loan you back to federal government for 10 days of quarter that is going to improve the cross-pollination of ideas between public and private sectors. atwatch the communicators 8:00 eastern on c-span two. this morning, a discussion on the weekend for congress and the white house with l.a. times and politicaler correspondent. later, the president for the national border control council

trump'son president calls for border security. you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ ♪ it's the washington journal for july 17. the house considers a number of bills related to pipeline construction and environmental regulation. the senate is expected to take up a procedural vote for president trump's nominee for deputy defense secretary. voteafter a delay in the to move the gop health care vote forward. lobbying by senate leadership on that bill is expected to continue. a new associated press poll shows three out of four americans expressed that they have two little influence in the workings of washington, d.c.