eclipse over the united states. listen live on the free c-span radio app count. -- app. tomorrow night, president trump addresses -- in afghanistan. his speech at fort myer, virginia on c-span. next, a discussion on the recent elections in kenya. betweenlitary exercise u.s. and south korea among tensions between the u.s. and north korea. with british permanent and recess, the prime minister's questions were not be seen tonight. two veteran journalists will force their coverage on the

ground during the recent general elections in kenya at an event hosted by the center for strategic and international studies. this is an hour and a half. >> good afternoon. center forthe strategic and international studies. ,o our kenyan election review some weeks ago we did a kenyan election preview here at cfif. i am not sure many of our forecast or predictions came to pass. which is maybe a good thing. i'm going to introduce -- i am very happy that we have a panel this morning consisting of two distinguished journalists who

have been in kenya, following the campaign and election in kenya. i will introduce them in just a moment. name is mark bellamy. i am a senior advisor for africa cfif. i had the good fortune to spend some weeks there prior to this year's election. i want to open with remarks about this morning's discussion and then turn to our guests. ,s all of you know, last week some 15 million kenyans went to the polls to elect a president, to elect members of parliament, to elect governors to 49 counties and a number of other officeholders. by any standard, by african standard, this was a remarkable

event. thousandscause of the of campaign appearances by different candidates because of the passionate participation of such a large part of the kenyan electorate. also because of the technological sophistication of this entire process, including the speedy tallying of votes on election day. incumbent know, presidencyon the with a margin of victory that was larger than predicted in any realmbut not outside the of probability. leadercted, opposition has rejected the results, claiming that these elections were rigged. he generally believed that he

had the numbers this time to win. many kenyans and international observers believe that as well. certaind that he was that the incumbent would not -- stop at nothing to rob him yet again of an electoral victory. isike in 2007 and 2013, he struggling to convince observers that these elections were, in fact, seriously flawed. erected insts have some nairobi slums and in parts of western kenya that are his strongholds. so far, there is little to suggest a repeat of the ethnic-based violence that calamitous 2007 elections. most of the deaths so far in this unrest, i think can be

attributed to quick trigger security forces. i think it is probably a good idea for all of us to urge .estraint on all sides restraint in terms of putting supporters in the street and to -- kenyan government, keeping security forces on a .ight leash most international observers quickly gave the thumbs up to these elections. the white house has issued a statement congratulating the president on his victory. in kenya, part of the oppositions predictable rejection of the results, some legitimate doubts remain. signed by election

officials and party agents at each: station and in each constituency counting center that are meant to confirm the electronic results of these elections have not yet been completely and publicly released. for the election commission to say do not worry, we have these forms in hand is not good enough. put the final seal of approval on this election. these forms need to be posted by the electoral commission either on its website or otherwise made available for public scrutiny. , publicthat final step confidence in the electoral commission, which was a problem throughout the campaign, this lack of confidence will injure and suspicions about hacking and will likely also injured. -- endure.

some of my predictions about this election did not come to pass. in many ways, i am relieved that they did not. it was very easy to imagine election about this would end in disorder and possibly widespread violence. that would have been a severe setback for kenya's young kenya'sy and for eagerness to exercise and test their right under the new constitution. those worst-case scenarios did not materialize. i may also have been wrong in protecting that a clean, fair, credible and look for a process, one,dless of you -- of who would be a big boost

psychologically for all of kenya and would have the effect of ringing communities closer together. i was probably a little too idealistic in making that assumption. the aftermath of this election, clean and fair and credible though it may prove to be, seems to be trending in a different direction, and not necessarily one that leads to greater inclusiveness and social cohesion. it may be too early to draw that conclusion, but it is not too about thee concerned crackdown on civil society, move that recalls some of the low point that followed the 2013 --ction, and election one 2013 election. to our now like to turn two guests. i am delighted that we have two distinguished journalists from

for some -- voice of america. directly to my right, victor is managing editor of the africa service. he is tv host of africa 54 program. victor is akenya, personal journalists with more than 20 years of experience working in africa, europe, and the u.s. he has covered many international stories, many international conferences, and interviewed many prominent international figures. he covered this election in kenya on the ground, arriving weeks before the election and staying through the electoral process. it is great to have you with us today, victor. to his right, native tanzanian. this with healy

service. he started his career as a journalist in tanzania. in 1994. voa he has reported from many corners of africa. he was one of the first journalists to visit our four -- report -- that for his doctoral degrees from howard university. he set up and organized and ran correspondents that was in place in kenya to cover this election. for agreeing to join us here this afternoon. if i can, i would like to turn to you first, victor, for your impressions and comments on this election. each of our guests will speak for a while.

we will open this up to your comments and questions. >> good afternoon. i am delighted to the invited here to talk about this historic election in kenya. and it was an event great to be on the ground. as ambassador telling me has bellamytioned, -- mentioned, there were so many predictions. having monitored the developments, it was an exciting time for everybody in kenya. the stakes were so high. the incumbent was running to securede a secure -- he a second term. it does mean a lot for him and his supporters. the pastgood job for

five years. for the opposition, it has been concluded that this is it. this was his only chance to make it. that he will be taking his retirement from politics. we do not know if he will confirm that. it was interesting to be on the ground and observed the campaign and listen to the what they were saying -- to what they were saying out there. i went out there 10 days before the actual day. at the time, there was so much frenzy of activities. the campaigns were all over the country, sometimes crisscrossing each other, trying to get the last vote from particularly they believed there were many undecided voters or they did not do well last time. it was almost impossible to catch up with them.

one night they were here come the next they are in a different region of the country. that on theesting night i was traveling there, i did not realize that a very important key person of the electoral commission had just disappeared. i woke up to that news as i was settling in and filing -- fighting jet lag. a person had just gone missing and been discovered murdered. the timing could not have been worse. it was just a few days to the election. suddenly, all this speculation, especially of the confidence that one could have in the electoral commission. there were accusations by the opposition coalition that there to infiltrate the

electoral commission and manipulate the process. we look up to that. first, the shock of the death of that man throughout the country. everyone was concerned. i was wondering whether this was directly linked to the election with just a few days away. .hat changed the narrative it started revolving around the security of the electronic systems that were to transmit the election results. as we continue to try to understand what was happening and they are investigating, we continued to the last few days of the campaign, which were really a frenzy of activity. tried to tell what the major platforms for these different

companies. especially, the big candidates. some independent candidates, but i do not think they featured much. one of them told me he spent most of his time in nairobi. listening to the two campaigns, you did not really get a lot in terms of the platform. like what did they really strongly stand for? coalition took credit on the campaign trail for what had been done, especially in the area of infrastructure beforement that started the current administration. they took credit for the

implementation for those projects. what was remarkable was the rail system to nairobi. these networks of highways, which some work completed and some are still under construction. what they said is if you elect us, we will definitely complete the job. they took care of what they had done but also what they have not done a using that as a call to allow them to complete the job. on the other side, the opposition had a hard time trying to convince the voters but they can do something, because they did not have anything to show. there was nothing to make any reference to. you could see that challenge of trying to convince the voters that there will be a better plan.

as a journalist, i was trying to concretecomplete -- plans, strategy on development or otherwise. you do not see much. they traded insults. of course, later on, it was very well organized. we went around the polling stations, fantastic job. i think the election went on well. there were a few problems and delays. a few missing things, but overall, i think election day was a success. there were few complaints about

a gorilla already's -- about irregularities. because the electoral commission had promised that everyone would be able to vote on a minute -- they managed to vote until around 8:00 p.m. to observeresting that. eventually, the results started streaming in. they were streamed live on the screens of the electoral commission. it was not long into we saw the gap tween the incumbent and opposition leader. after a while, the opposition leader said those numbers were fake. it set off all this drama. the debate started around the issue of transmission and whether this was credible. threatenedion almost

to stall the whole process. it can talk a little more about that, but i think that is generally -- i could share with you of what the process was before, during, and after the election. thank you. >> thank you for sharing the podium. toill go back a little bit show how the -- how we prepared for this election. we felt that this was a very important election, very unique in terms of a comp wishing a credible election. and also demonstrating how far brought itself from 2007? that is something a lot of people were interested in.

decided we are going to go to nairobi. i lead a team of five. we spent two weeks there and trained a total of 25. not all of them were from kenya. fromlled some journalists south sudan, uganda and tanzania, mostly kenyans to do some training on election coverage. really dig into the issue of objectivity because this was surely going to come in the elections. aboutwas a lot of consent -- concern about violence in the media was caught in the middle -- violence. the media was caught in the

middle. there was an elephant in the room. there was a delicate balance there. we wanted to do with that. we did this training on all , and digitalos, tv content for five days in nairobi. later we went to mama sarah -- later we did additional training. social media was very important in this election. that before address the elections. , we had a total of 10 streamers. in nairobi.e had a very good coverage

across the country. talking about the election itself, the way we have covered it, we made sure that we captured the mood and what is going on. one thing that comes out is the confidence that the people of kenya had to this election. people came out in big numbers. they were there from midnight. you could see people shivering in the cold. they were waiting to vote. a moment where the first lady of kenya stood in the line for four hours.

she came and got in mind. she did not vote until 10:00 a.m. there was a lot of confidence among the people that they wanted to do this right. they did their part. up ands of showing moving and going home and .aiting for the results when the results came, i would observing the results and having followed up the period before the elections, almost all .f the polls were showing a few days before the elections, they were in the and neck. when the results start -- neck and neck. -- he jumped to an

one million lead. he never relinquished it until the end. speedastonished with the of how he jumped so far ahead so fast. i was not surprised that he won. today, there was some breaking news. he had promised this big announcement. the nation was on pins and needles waiting for this announcement. today he announced he is going the victory the computer-generated and the figures.

they will breathe a sigh of relief -- relief when that announcement was made. to go through the court system is part of the democratic institution. let me share some. one of our journalists brought a story which shows that kenyans geographicy around and ethnic lines. that is not a surprise. he won all 12 counties from predominant ethnic groups.

the main group receive 90% of the vote. that also was not a surprise in terms of kenya. if you follow the politics, you know that ethnic feelings are very strong. there were similar differences evident in northeastern provinces. he won 12 other counties, which is where he comes from. on the eastern province, that is what was roughly split. numbers, there will be no

more numbers coming out. be a window into how we analyze this election. they are giving us a synopsis of how this election went. they campaigned on their record. they took credit of some achievement, which some of them started in previous administrations. campaigned mostly on promises. they were put together just a few months ago. we were in nairobi then. it was soon after the primaries. they were scrambling for who to put as their candidate. that is when they formed their coalition.

august to get that platform together to get the message out there. it was a tough job. they did all they could. these candidates traveled across the nation. when he was time traveling by road. his truck got stuck in mud. what othereling of regular people feel when they travel across the country. i will stop there and we can come back to other topics that interest you. i do not want to get into your program, but i think i would for one of our colleagues

to say something. thank you. good afternoon. >> talk to me. come on. nairobi.in there. right it was a few days -- we got there a week before the election day. we were able to see what was going on in terms of preparation. i went to most -- the very last political rallies. i am a native of kenya. i have watched and seen most of

the elections. presidents all these from the late president, father of the current daniel's time,ng during the president. have seen it all. what i would say from a general perspective point of view, my assessment of how the election went, especially the process of preparing. and voting and also having gone presidento current

cast his ballot on the 8th of this month. this was the best election, in terms of preparation -- up to that point. what happened after the voting happened is a story for another day. really, i cannot claim to know everything. again, as you have heard, something's happened that are according to the opposition, things happened that they are not happy with. i was telling him earlier, i think what he has done is really the right thing. even for us, we are not privy to the exact working of what was happening behind the scenes of

counting the exact votes. it created an opportunity for us through the judicial system whether things happened, or whether they did not happen. or whether they are just crying for no good reason. basically, if there is a specific issue that we may need to talk about, i would be more than happy to share. thank you. >> that is a good point. i just want to underline that, i think most observers -- certainly most observers i have talked to would agree that this was an exceptionally well-run election. particularly when contrasted with previous attempts when you had severe technical breakdowns, which then have led to an absence of public confidence in the process. technical breakdowns were not in issue.

i am not sure technology was an answer. technology does not guarantee a free and fair election. this was a big improvement for kenya. before we go to our questions into the audience, i would like hamza vincent and two about the media, and the media's coverage of the election in kenya. you had teams all over the country. can you share with us a little bit, can you tell us, or those reporters on the field -- did they have free access? were they able to get to the polling stations? were they able to talk to officials and voters? and were voters willing to talk to journalists, and willing to share their experience with journalists?

secondly, we are working alongside canyon media -- kenyan media and international journalist to come in for this event. maybe you can share with us about how the media covered this. did the media do the right job in terms of truly telling the story of this election? had accreditation we , did not have a problem accessing any place. we are able to go to any of the important areas we wanted to visit. nobody stopped us for the telling of the results. we had access to the electoral commission off telling center. there was no restrictions. i don't think there was any problem speaking with either the participants in the campaigns, the politicians.

the challenge was they were moving around too much, especially presidential candidate pinning them down for , a sitdown interview was a big challenge. the priorities were elsewhere. they wanted to appeal to the protests. that was a big challenge. as regards of how the other media houses covered, i observed them closely. one of the things, and i know we tried our best to do a good job, kenyan journalists free space, in terms of media, after the fighting -- many of them fighting to have free expression. in a way, i feel like looking at how the elections were covered,

the time before the actual elections were covered, this was a squandered opportunity there. there were not many strong, well researched investigative journalistic high-quality pieces out there. the media took the easier route having several panelists and the studios. they were just talking about what politicians upset out -- politician have said out there. many times he would see what was reported as one site said, then the response from the other side. no serious investigation into how truthful are those statements. whether they are claims of certain developments. we build 300, or 3000 facilities, you wanted to go out and see if that is really true and see when sudden claims are the when certain claims are made against the other side, how fair and truthful some of those claims were by the government.

you felt like it may not had the resources but you felt like there was something missing and in -- moving in helping to reform the citizenry of some of these claims, and really making a fair assessment of where the country is five years after the last elections. in terms of whether it is climate development, creation, rural, countryside development, that economic development, job development,onomic job creation, money allocated to the development of local counties have been utilized. goodid not see a lot of order -- good reporting. for reasons i don't understand, but i personally felt like there were opportunities lost during that period. i totally agree with what you have said, in terms of our the performance of the media. let me go back to our own reporters.

we did not get any problems. we prepared with the iabc we , prepared with a kenyan media before hand. we had -- and every place we went we got office. -- we got access. they were in the middle as a rescuer. maybe you want to talk about that. that was after the elections. the government was very sensitive about coverage. >> especially of any protest. our east african correspondent , he wasd in nairobi taken to the ic headquarters to be interviewed.

they made some claim that she had been seen bribing people to cause chaos. of course that did not happen, that was not the case. we had to go and try to get out of jail. they did not keep her there for too long. that was born of oversensitivity of covering any appearance. -- any appearance of a protester about the postelection violence. the government had been very sensitive about that. you can see very serious censorship of the local media. almost across the board, avoiding coverage of demonstration around the city and around the country. it was a little bit of that. it comes from the events of 2007. i personally think the 2007 violent traumatize the country.

traumatized the country. it almost created this monster where everybody is so terrified around election time that you do not want to show any elemental balance because there was a feel that it could, not only bring memories, but insight people to commit such crimes. >> i think even the local media -- we also had our limitations. we only have two hours a day on air. english to africa, you have four hours a day. we have limitations in terms of time on being on air. the local media has a lot more time. you have to agree that the local media was under heavy pressure, in terms of not to be seen to insight any kind of violence. and that led to them, i think, checking themselves into, what did they cover, how do they cover it.

there was not a lot of fact checking. whatever the creditors say, that was being reported without any kind of fact checking. in nairobi there are some are -- some institutions -- during our training, we brought and a gentleman from an organization called africa check. they have branches in nigeria, nairobi, they are doing a good job in terms of teaching journalists how to fact check, even within a short period of time. that was missing. the local media had to work with this delicate balance of being socially responsible, and also, calling it as it is.

i think, if i was to give a verdict, i would say they were working on being socially responsible then calling the story as it is. >> socially responsible, ok. thank you. let's open this up to questions or comments from our audience. i would just ask that you identify yourself and your organization. i should add too that this is all on the record. we are completely transparent today. this is in on the record n on the record discussion. so, yes sir. one and two, you will go second. ok, thank you. >> thank you very much.

this is a very stimulating panel. i have been going in and out of kenya since 1980 when i was a fulbright scholar. one of the things that is always troubling about kenya is, there are these extrajudicial killings. i think back to -- and some other charismatic politicians. the ambassador alluded to the murder of this gentleman who works for the electoral commission. i was just wondering, neither one of you have addressed that, if you could bring us up-to-date on any news you might have about

the police investigation into this murder, and does it look like it wasn't extrajudicial killing? what do you know about it today? thank you. >> take that question and we will add another one. >> matt, i work with ngo that works with kenya and ethiopia. i wanted to ask a question you started to talk about regarding the counties. certainly one of the stories we have heard about, kind of more of an academic forum. it is a story about counties, certainly, this is the first democratic transition of counties. this is the first election since the -- the second election since the first election five years ago. as more powers, and as more taxes get pumped into counties, i am wondering, what is the

untold story there? certainly, we can generalize about ethnicities and groups in these counties, will be know -- we know a lot of them, many counties are heterogenous. i am wondering what the impacts are being felt across the country are? >> let me do that question and you do the counties question. the investigation of the death is still going on. officially, that is what we are told. the timing of his death, his disappearance, murder was really disturbing. lot -- it was left for

a lot of speculation. the fact that this gentleman was as fared as the man as this computer system worked. when he disappeared and died, at that time, there was a lot of speculation that it could be political. around the time there were some stories that were talking about triangles, because he got killed with a young lady with him. there was a lot of speculations. the iabc was quick to come out and say his death will not affect the credibility of the computer system with the iebc. with the investigation, unless there is new news, the investigation so far is still going on. so, we do not know. >> [indiscernible]

part of the reason he died was to cover -- sorry, that he died because he had some information that was very critical and somebody wanted that information. it might have been used to get it to the systems. therefore, this is certainly something we would get more of when they go to court. according to mr. -- his name will come up in court. as he says, that is what we know for now, at least from the official position from the government and the iebc. >> first, we know two or three things. he was murdered, tortured, and the police launched an investigation.

a few people arrested, but up to now the investigations are ongoing. we do not know why he was killed. nobody can say for sure why he was killed, that is why we stand and we wait and see. that is at least from a generalist at perspective. that is where we are. we cannot speculate too much. as for the history of kenyan records, with how well the country quickly resolves high-profile murders, unless something changes in the future, i don't think there has been a great record of quickly resolving issues. many of the time some have been forgotten. we never got to know who murdered who and why. that is critical, who did it and why they did it gets lost in space and time. we hope somebody will get to the

bottom of this and we will eventually know who killed him and why they killed him. taking the question of the counties, for many, many years, kenyans have been clamoring for a system that can allow developments to be -- the management of the counties of their local areas of jurisdiction to be managed by their own people in their own area. i think the county system is the best thing that ever happened to kenya. now with the devolved system of government, funds are allocated to the different counties. counties act just like the states in the united states. every county has a governor, representatives, and has officials that run the different projects within the county. they had developments in a different region of the country. some have done really well and

there is a good spirit of competition among governors to do better than the other guys. few of them have been doing a fantastic job. there have been accusations of massive correction, everybody has control of a fund and the local area there have been , accusations of some of the local officials pocketed. -- pocketed the money meant to develop the counties. that has been unfortunate and across the board some have , accused governors and officials that are members of the opposition parties, of corruption. some of the ruling correlation has been accused of the same corruption. it is something that is seen as common among officials. that is the downside.

other than that, i think the counties -- a good thing that happened to kenyans in terms of holding leaders accountable, now it is localized. the president used to have to determine what happened in which part of the country, but now local leaders determine what happened to the funds that are sent to the different counties. >> let me just add a couple of to those of the killing. we do not know who the author of this particular crime were. we do know that kenya has -- not just kenya, but kenya has something of a history of disappearance and assassination of political figures, prominent lawyers, human rights activists, witnesses, that happens.

even by those standards, it seems to me this crime was particularly grazing and shocking. shocking.and it was meant to have an effect. this was not a casual kind. this is not someone hijacked at 3:00 a.m. in downtown nairobi whose body was found in the gorilla forest the next morning. this was meant to send a signal of some kind. we just do not know exactly what the signal was. i do think that, in some ways, it casts a shadow over this election. in some ways, some of the enduring recollections of what will turn out to be a historically free and fair election, and there will be this unexplained murder. what thing it does send, that is indisputable is want of immunity. impunity.f

to counties, as vincent pointed out, these were some of the most highly contested races. the devolution of authority to counties was not entirely a popular idea, at least in nairobi after the new constitution was passed. there was a slowness in implementing putting the machine in place. i think there is a great deal of popular support in kenya for the devolution of power. a lot of popular enthusiasm in terms of voting for their constituent assembly representatives and governors and so forth. this is a lot of money, a lot of resources being pushed out of the county. there is a huge bill that goes along with that. the public service bill, the salaries being paid in kenya have led to a lot of complaints that this is maybe a great experiment in democracy, but it

is hugely expensive. stakes are high at the local level, salaries are high, resources are there, these are highly contested as the national races. i saw a poll -- maybe this is a poll nick showed me. kenyan voters were asked which of the six ballots you are casting is the most important to you? as you would expect, most said the president. the second most important was for their member their constituent assembly. which is their county legislator. that is an interesting sign that there is a certain degree of popular support of county level government. >> if i may, one of the promising things, the big advantage you see on the ground is, when you are in kenya -- for those of us who come from the region, when young people finish school they all go to nairobi, they all go to the capital city because that is where the jobs are.

now you have young people that go back to their counties because they know their money is there. even if they have an idea that they wanted to implement in nairobi, they say let me go back to mombasa so that i can establish a business there because there is funds coming from there. that is a very positive outcome on these counties. >> very quick point. on the issue of the races, i think that is critical but it is fortunate it happened at this time in the presidential race. the focus was on the presidential race. it was the big story and it happened in some way to subdue whatever's happening at the county level.

he said that was an important race for residents of those counties. the governor meant much more to them to some degree more than two become the president of the them to some degree more than the president of the nation. you hope someday, perhaps the presidential race will be done at a different time and it will make a difference. >> yes sir -- yes, sir. >> thank you. i just want to ask if you try to reconcile that claim of rigging, or the fact that the jubilee party has absolute majority. in mombasa parliament, government, senator, and even women.

are you saying that in addition, -- in addition to - rigging, that the president also leaked other members of all the people who are also campaigning for those seats? the fact we have is that the party is a bigger majority than in the last parliament. secondly, you are actually voting for six persons, six elections in one. then, after today, that -- there is not a single member of parliament, senator, government who have disputed those results. for everybody, there is the same election. it contains results for all the

six voices of the competition. i think we need to see how you can reconcile that claim of rigging. secondly, we are officially at 4000 election observers and the official number was exactly 8000. they went around to all the polling station. u.s., african, u.s. embassy in own observer team. they have all given a clean certificate, not a single reservation on the results. how can we reconcile the claim for rigging? sadly, all of the candidates

from the two teams, they had -- their own election agent at the polling station. the two copies of the results at the polling station through their mobile phones. how come the 40,000 agents, not a single one of them have come up to claim that the results that they took pictures of at the police statement -- playstation and the ones being announced are different. -- pictures at the police beingn and the nes announced are different. how can we reconcile that? again, we just mentioned about -- it is very clear. yes, there was an attempt to hack the system, but it was not successful. at any case, the presiding officers did not get them until one or two days before the election.

nobody had those. whatever they may had given out, it was actually not very material. i would say the investigations have been conducted by the police. they have now tried to figure out -- between 11:00 p.m. and 3:00 a.m. all the other times are accounted for. if you could talk more about that rigging and the allegation. it doesn't go well with the facts that are on the ground. lastly, i was there for the election, i voted. i can tell you out of all the elections, i think this was one of the most well organized elections. it took me less than 30 seconds

to vote. thank you. >> you did much better than the first lady. she was in line for four hours. >> i am willing to take on one of those questions. i hope we did not create an impression that we own that claim of rigging. journalist, i don't think we have made any issue on the claim of rigging. all we do is we reported on what the opposition candidate has said. he made certain claim and we as

reporters reported on his claims and the responses from the ibc on how they secured their systems. we do not have any evidence, whatsoever that there was any rigging. we cannot take sides on whether the iebc is 100% right on anything they are saying. what we observed is that those systems put in place, the ibc assuring everyone it is secure. that would be death, they had a him,at with the death of they had those systems se

cure. the claims that were made by -- or are being made by at this point, none of us have any evidence they have, as regards to the rigging attempts, or hacking of the system. we never saw anything, we have not shown any documents, or anything that confirm any of those. we look forward to observing the proceedings in court. perhaps we will get some revelation as to what really happened. as journalists doing our job, we do not necessarily pick sides and embrace those accusations. we just reported on what we heard and we waited to see if there was anybody who could produce evidence. >> i think that is why we are saying that the decision not to go to court was the best decision for the nation. even president-elect kenyatta asked the position.

-- asked the opposition if , you're not happy with the results, go to court. the fact that they are going to court, everything will come out in the open. that will resolve it. each side is studying their claim. the iebc, the official results, jubilee has won the election and that is where it stands at the moment. it is also making everything so transparent. iebc to makes on so transparent. e.u. today called on the iebc to make -- i think there is some 2900 forms, 34a or b which have not been posted on the iebc systems. that is all about making sure there is transparency and results.

that is just one of the points. in terms of the entire process, in terms of the numbers in parliament, governorships and all that, one of the things that one needed to recognize is that the dynamics are really different. in terms of how they performed with the presidential race and the other races, it is true that the campaign was different. we mentioned a little earlier that the jubilee correlation had a very well oiled machine on the ground because they have been around in the last election. they have been literally campaigning for the last election. the opposition coalition is very new outfit. they were trying to find themselves, trying to figure out

how to move ahead, therefore they had disadvantages. in all fairness, the jubilee correlation did an amazing job on the ground, focusing on areas where they did very poorly last time. you can see that they performed well, in terms of the local races. parliament, senators and governors, there was no dispute. not many people have disputed the victories of some of those officials from the ruling coalition of the opposition. the dynamics were completely different this time than 2007, or even 2013. >> i want to thank you, ambassador, for being here, and also for your comments this afternoon. i guess one prediction we could have all made before the selection was that, it was going to end up in the courts. regardless of which side appeared to win, which side claimed victory, even in this

case with what appears to be a very clear-cut defensive by president kenyatta and jubilee, it was going to end up in the courts. that is not necessarily a bad thing. at the end of the day, it seems to me, what matters is how broadly are kenyans reconcile to the electors outcome. anything that can be done to achieve that result and reconcile, particularly the losing side to the result. it is worth pursuing that. i think the court process might in the end have that beneficial effect. >> i am wondering what your recent crackdown postelection on the recent rights that are operating?

>> everybody had suspicions that the timing of cracking down on those ngos, it they probably have heard that that was reversed, the government requested the ngo coordinating body to let that slide for now, for the next 90 days. it claims they had not been paying taxes without permits. i personally am not privy to all of those details, whether they have issues with the taxes, or employment. a -- do not know about that. anything happening after a certain time can be seen a suspicious. people speculated that, when he said it will not go to court, that they probably would go by proxy through some of those organizations. one of the two people are the ones that have banned, or were nearly banned until that ban was lifted. the suspicions to why you want to crackdown on the organizations at this moment,

but at the same time, we do not know. whether truly, perhaps they had committed some of this -- these crimes. >> thank you for sharing your experience. i think there would be no elections without the people of kenya. i am wondering, do you think water education -- and this is a question for you vincent. i say that because i think, in the past you can easily convince

him -- convince people of something bid on want to do and they would fall for you. do you think we underestimated the will of the people of kenya when it comes to postelection environments? -- postelection violence. i am wondering how much credit can we give them themselves? vincent: they tried, but it was not conducted as affectively, and in good times. that is why we had so many spoiled ballots. i think they were close to 70 -- 300,000. they said it was because, quite a number of people get voter education. they made a mistake. some of them were like cases where they said a person would put a line in one box and it kind of flows to the other box and it becomes one ballot. there are issues also with helping people who have disabilities, including blind people and others who could not

possibly identify who they were electing. there is an agreement in kenya that voter education has not been combating and a faction that would be satisfactory to all. that is something everybody agrees. in terms of balance, personally, i was very optimistic that there won't be any widespread violence. most international media went in expecting to employee. we knew there would be a few protest here and there, but most kenyans have no appetite for violence. even if they perceive anything in the system. as i mentioned earlier, kenyans

were traumatized by the events in 2007. i am not too old, but i don't the queen have seen anything close to 2007. after that time, majority of kenyans will not allow the country to slide back. whatever happened during this election. voters who are determined to make a date meant through the ballot and maintain the peace. we do have a few protesters here and there, that was expected, it will always happen. kenya is not about to burn up. i do not think it will happen, it does not matter who tries to incite them into violence. >> while they are waiting for that, everything considered, i completely agree with you. i think the first winners are kenyan people. the way they turned out for the vote. voter turnout.

you don't get that in a lot of countries, you don't get that in the usa. to do that and exercise their rights, that was a display of knowledge, of knowing that this is our right and we have to go out there and exercise it. definitely they were the first winners. also, i think that the fact that there was no widespread violence this time, i think it is a prediction that we probably won't see anything like 2007 ever again. when we covered the election before the elections, there was a lot of efforts by -- human young musicians. -- even young musicians.

kenyans have this music they called kenya flavor, these artist. they were releasing a lot of videos on peace during the elections. that was a major of this is what we were expecting. and it got that way to an extent. >> what i wanted to say, but also to a large extent, whether -- the candidates themselves towards the end of the campaign, they came out and there was effort even from the government itself, even sending those messages of peace. i remember president kenyatta, two of his meetings he was almost pleading to not get into situations where people would fight. the very last meeting, a was all peace. -- it was all peace.

at all goes towards the same message of peace. it is unlikely that kenya is going to weaken. -- to witness another 2007. goingis much wiser after through that difficult period. told to fight their neighbors, they will think twice. >> think we have times for a couple more questions. we will come to you second then. >> i would like to thank the panelists.

especially for someone who does not know much about the kenyan election. i am that it has been dubbed the chopper election. and that there has been an estimated 90 helicopters registered for politicians to campaign in different parts of the country, which reflects a growing disparity between politicians and the people. and questions the feasibility of people from lower statuses being able to run for office. i recognize the are any that billiont and i have a errors as the president. -- i, as an american have a billionaire as the president. if you could predict any developing trends that you see in the future of how future elections will be handled. thank you. >> we will take a second question. >> my name is gabriel, i work with a contractor. before the election, the terrorist group has promised to disrupt the election by any possible means.

i was wondering if there had been attempts for them to do so, and whether or not they were successful at a local level? thank you. >> maybe i will take the one on the campaign techniques. kenyan presidential campaigns had become a very much helicopter affair. there was a lot of money being spent on the campaign rallies. one of the things that i think the media missed out on, just looking at how much money is being spent out there. whether that was speaking to the disparities between those who have and those who don't.

if you look at those who have a helicopter estimating $3000 per hour. and for months and months we saw helicopters landing in places. there was a big show of force on the campaign trail. unfortunately there is no transparencies to how much money is being spent, where it is coming from. in many cases, this is a way to kind of question why we have such a disparity between those who have money, and those who do not have.

there is so much poverty and these places just blow off in the faces of thousands of poor people and they just fly away after giving them a few promises. that could have also been used as a basis to discuss the question of, how well we are doing economically. in some cases, some of the politicians fly to these places and back because they have no good roads. so that ideally could've been a basis to do a story on the economic development on the ground and how much money is being spent by politicians to conduct these campaigns. some people have said that the reason why we have a lot of corruption in the system is, after spending so much money, some have to try to recoup this and the and sub coming through unacceptable means. i think it is a very legitimate question. >> i think that is another, maybe structural regulations that could be put in place, financial disclosure and terms of how much money is being spent.

in many african countries there are no real regulations when it comes to how you collect your campaign money, how you spend it. whoever can collect more, they can spend as much as they want. nobody knows where this money is coming from. maybe that could be another stage in kenya politics in terms of democratic institutions to getting wrote credible elections. there were those threats with no reported incidents of them attacking close to the elections, or close to the election day. we are watching that very closely, but i think there was an incident today, but they weren't successful with disturbing the election.

vincent: in the run-up to the election there was a claim that the government was framing soldiers for the election. -- training soldiers for special ig theions to help r election. the government clarified that we were living in a time of that threat from al-shabab and some of the training being offered was to make sure the elections would take place peacefully and there would be mass security. they could take credit for that. it has provided enough to have the election take place, even in some of those counties, fairly

peacefully. nobody was intimidated, nobody failed to go to the polling station. >> in some ways, there had been an uptick in attacks, mostly bomb attacks on military convoys along the border. my ba precursor to a bigger al-shabab effort to disrupt the elections. -- they thought it might be a precursor to a bigger al-shabab effort to disrupt the elections. for whatever reason that did not occur. that would be an interesting subject of analysis of why did not occur. because they were not capable because they elected not to do , it, because the security services turned it off and contained in, i do not know. interesting story. on the election campaign i put , out a couple of things. politics are so demonstrative and candidates traveling hundreds of thousands of

kilometers from one big rally to the next in every corner of the country. there is a tremendous amount of him should -- showmanship even by american standards, lot of money changes hands. people need to be transport paid for, meals paid for. i was always struck by these giant lorries on the road clogged with young men with their banners jamming the highways in support of their candidates. one thing i would say as well is, most important kenyan politicians and even down to the level of governor, and members of constituent assembly have fairly sizable security entourages. these entourages are sometimes formal, with armed bodyguards, sometimes they are left formal and sometimes there are entourages that assemble for one purpose and then they are

not there the next day. before the election there was a worry that, given the stakes and intensity of this campaign, there was a risk this would spill over to filing clashes between armed groups before the election. that did not happen. the campaign itself did not spill over into the kind of violence that you might have feared in a charged atmosphere like this, were so many people are running around with guns. some like a description of the united states. [laughter] >> do we have time for maybe a couple more questions? >> i am an associate with csis here. i was wondering if you could speak more about the police killings. particularly if this looks like it was directed from the top, or

if it was more trigger-happy policeman. whether or not the independent police oversight authority is investigating on that front. >> there was a woman here, sorry i cannot get to everybody. >> hi. kathleen with the international republican institute. my question is regarding women in this election. we saw that, while there was some success stories, first women being elected to the governor seats, we still see fairly low percentage and representation of youth and women who represent the large

portion of the kenyan population. so much so that, at the national level, the parliament and those seats do not meet the constitutional requirement of the two thirds gender role. can you speak about the dynamic of women and youth in this election and what might need to happen to have broader representation going forward? vincent: very quickly on the killings, there was no evidence of there being an order from above to kill citizens. i think as the ambassador mentioned before, might be trigger-happy. someone trying to quell the demonstration. there is no demonstration -- but there is no evidence that anybody gave in order to go and kill citizens in any place. in terms of your question on women, in fact, women perform so well for the first time, kenyan -- kenya has female governors. three female governors, and three female senators.

youth did fairly well. one of them is an entertainer who is now a ember of -- now a member of parliament. i cannot remember all of their names, but i think there is a progression towards embracing more women leaders and young leaders. there is also financial factor where our campaign is determined by how much money you have. one of the young fellows who won is called -- i forget the number. >> bob. thee has been a student at university of nairobi and the generalist. that young man has a lot of money, i don't know where he gets the money from, but it is propelling to that position. he got elected. he never lived there, how he got in, i do not know. there is a financial factor.

sometimes we don't have many women with that kind of money. the young men and women also do not have that money. this time around there was a lot of good will. there were a number of people elected, one of them was a cook and a security guy. i think this election really took kenya to another level. it promises that in the coming year, people will be elected and judged not by how much money they have, or whether they are male, female, or youth. i think there is progress being made.

there is hope. >> are we wrapping up. >> i was going to start to wrap up. vincent: i just wanted to say this. most of you know that the u.s. government funded organization, but i wanted to make this disclaimer here that our remarks do not reflect viewers of the u.s. government. this is purely the voice of america, carl and i. >> we will take note. [laughter] >> it has been a very very , interesting discussion today. this is probably the first of what may be a number of discussions because inevitably, this attention will turn out so -- turned not so much to the election itself and the results, but what does this mean in the longer term for kenya? i want to think our two guests today vincent and hamza. this is not the first time i

have worked with voa. thank you very much. ambassador, thank you for joining us. thank you for coming out this afternoon to be part of this discussion. thanks. [applause] [captioning performed by the announcer: british parliament is now in recess. the next prime minister questions is scheduled for september 6. you can find past video of prime minister's questions and other british affairs program's on our website.

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