ogm. ms ely sthr h ad no y'vgoaiyo acrso ae u i beust is jt anhe tl atite. hetuntcongut th a ror ts. w wha tbrg t leeripndarts ooa. >>onht lk tmpt dit thn mhe jes maznt she bo uianas is grdo veige re-n is.

iss hr d n nus. ooevin erye. myamisinki inheriy or, d m adhamassisoty edor if h tke ito0 woy d. weomtoonht pgrwi ior. nit'prra ckeson rrndg r-of pushntanwhprat iss lpr rmhe imalusysm.hi isn poquti beuspratpronha i ki aomacunr pridt um ty e poisedows llnd laanorr prchan al h iigti pics. ur cics r al coeconcoorioof a,r a.e ve is tgr awe uer al ireblpal ing rit,s seoreptefo mo jon.

hepe fr nt aa pratpronua a ou air-hcot ofhahaenhe pron hes soheutr lir lht autis pronntn lce,ha ber [alae] >>ndextoha ijeni deecta ocafoia rdsopame o coeconan haliti, stng ntf e atpelt jenifo, an f cong [alae]

>> aecans ewn stofl i shwos thhe.s inti ste celyro aexnse econheusesof pratonrapo a so othhoif, tell rriccoit peoe mi opratva obus. an jni ualth wafr n yk. [alae] iantota bging thauen se ntt alicf e s. prite pronopheot is pulioisbo 2 io ith rhtwh opti oth i ive? t milonncde pelen ilth'sbo 6000pelenoinudg e ilopation,ouav 1.iopelen ator ferapronouofho, erar1200 bedn

20 n, ldn prat fali. e t 2stesha eresho tesf at iss.isut% t tapronopatn.ho nuerdot e e mb opeleelin ive miatn teio tol is pulio tse falies the s e meer nd0,0 op tal thbo t trdhe i ive citi. e jotyf op i imgriodentn e a e city >>eaiedoouno thfirearinalora, iner ohoma cifni prone pva iss? >>o en w wh is lirn dof rebiweadaphe ste 4nds relt hehr-jgean desi, ado du thnuerf mas in ldn li pso tt thste ntct wh iss t--steo ininxcs t c.

th nbeha cin do b ielvehe a stl colehoanor tt me atoud pratproninth stes sneau, ats e pe oatpronfo at a lalntie wt ty ome? >>ritericompie d eima aumtsor thr isncishath sa mey nell ty e ear, alou treasectla del udbyheeptmt jti tt sill mu, d erarlot lictg in. meayhecae ren e d.he a iuein cafoiahe pva pso mpiewot kerine wi sio mic iue s th ct eenal ose toheubc iss. erara t hdecos kehi tt enou

e mb oho ty e vi, rllist esd ou >o enhesath se r ma p d, e attii veee is lileuz. y. e inayhesa moy tou wt eyay eistf.hearcuina looforrsgeray. afnge inosof ruina is. stisc ha sn,t'a enouayheta l stesmoy. a y kw atirha fr w ia ive , t fo ieto th, wa tflh t w ratprongepa. ic s iitruth eyetaipeinayhe ha, d p iatth ha, d soha he cureiren tt th p ostesr ca vemes? afaas aawe,ha pepron, d ntct inhi treavbe guanesbo wt at

puti wl ma a s vislth c ld bbngorerinyp o tt ke tt ve reucg ndormimu, e enouilha a mo sadpolaonf peleorowinceai crin pal thhoth he te beucre wt pps geren dot ethecc quemtsanwh kd nay is, an ue >>enal t ctrt e ord arte a 5ocpay tewhanift ll bew %,heovnmt ll pathra a5%f e prons rehe. o seiay xper rhtrit.

iclyhayoar dengaliaans,s deringalias,s iusy ats ceivedo s op, tanfo inte tke t danfo intehi, d snd li y a singht ait wswod du th ppolaonsu a fiti ain rucg ndormimu oleen orhis ha jeni y a n i nu rorisxalyho stemtsththatf er a cngineng la, ng idr enrcenla, an min at, ul inuee,ou aecthr tt le. eyavtouthainhe nu ror bau ty edo t op w b eistk no wt sk , d y ogsse poci, eris rk thr tt le. a bbowfuouarth a >>hearinedly

porf. eyivlo of dotis ndat f oic o a bn tsf ors ri tsintl mpgnbo t pva prongin netoub anotr op rni t berede. ei dunghere uee ttgrt. jt nt tpot t, to tpubllyunrins sopeten ceiv. r ame, w aepin upatneyo, d ri e met s poin ei treas he fo tolo pso, d ive pronar'tlledn w yo stebuth dn' stfr bng vy ffulthg t t thunnserfiti rll ha ain i t potianwe ithr,he sh rllha ain i i stantooi iou atho tesf in ex pliseorrins to isa tesf rricontis.

esonjeniwofo, e atruinitio bte anritens iablulyepdsn e ste,ecsef w ou t tooupronth me thsyemoooradrit? i inwereorna i rn tha aovno o reabt bl set o lieshaweo si our s tts o coun sthe a kn ytiedarer enn d w e nyinan ogmswi o cre e inpualov tse lirn. etr anth ste buiteay pes t bl g iold d inreedn atapns

si psosyem athwaenf n nn,oureeay cu wt u lie ou b thmiioofrinswhh soishentes oan pratpronwh iacdo yothk eyavonhe rebitaveunof iss?

>> tnkhe btoli i priti veeeinom prpron a ty ly wt ithntra. th'rraedo ove ceaiseic, ats l th wl ove,ndhear t okg iro pli li. eyreotoongo ol a st tma ibeeror e didus i wch s btefopuic satyn nel.ro pot vw,s ic t vi snt0 ar inherinajuicem he icafoiai wa ghofubc fe me oay,nd aaybeev athaweidnse pronhaanmpt o counie alsbeev e ed tfoowhe iee d e taanth ishy ilent da-dvede-minin e pame ocoecon roh racaed mst. tnkhaisha eyhod autevvi toolw e iee malusce

aest cifnis tideowd atweav se se al vt premtsn r ntci la h t sasn expl kpi nseou noiontnoexffde ouofrin t lal ve wha aotorto t atas he,ug epn lirn tar a tt ste >>ls wshldt tay tehadioty twn anthprate, beusthstesun- e stesreonacd d es pratcoans ere fr wt ha sn,t'no ensuofomni dog atheonac reir. th d'tvedohaa t te. e at'tavmu oa mes eor tse ntct ion kw tm wrinin t ctrt nafocora -th wi s ty n vo coras,uthedot th. 'sti t rpoibit t stehath prons e nng isay tite. >>he w ainecr nel tt sill unth iprat-- bacay unthprat pronthe s erat ofssltonrin afan beeein a y we coecony e t ian miuseri. d atlaouinou exricewey sa?

>>t d,ea t psoi s w vy olt. erwe sbbgsve we. wiesd abng d erarstbis d l iss,he ivien i l iss,uthei ft d ok athda, er wa--otusmo vlee, resef rc a i medo tthise att wawaunrsff, r e. erwe vy nil ucioprra. a t tes dn'geto goutde >>heyosaunrsff, atasheat? iou ce two a erwod ds erthe re5 ar f 10 inte iord t ut wi 3 psorsiton otr ar wju h di. reoteay in mu. d e medil aot rs a ts ufad u tohifrtriofopele linghe, vi ia rm

of4 enllayon a peleig. fitsre o. erara loofru a ctranin prongudshama ne oarpeho, y me dseeseindrs.n p tt,hei s er i s ti wner erwaa abngi ulwre do, e te en lt, tteth dertntf rrtis e w nyf e th mpy poed eyreeqretoept l tm.n twmoh ri, i ewbo t osoanin th t-mtherd,he rert fe.ndhiis >>hewen'albe poed >>ig.a ajonast, weoofothe cunt t e oe itg e cuntarlyg ty e wohls. wean kw atnls ey arthe.

>>o fethgs pa othreonhetain veiso w w? bau is neolrs r ur >>ouotaini dla peho tbe pso ar >>etanitasn ve po tn lisnarely ndn. bustl,vethght s pr,he we t lo pplwiintoorthe r neolrserour. t pelehadiwo tre nyf emersileom th ndeinrae r ei ki, ed aobinai 50orth mond'an lmt. >>hiwaa is r b co cic >>ea wt u e yi ith eyaiyove ltlan p afngevs w mami tirrot? sthprontsf,he

waedo reorpelebu th d'teto t e y. ats l net e rpatofcen shll nt thi me op, t kd catth ctu whe erodwhwos er isrurad thhe rpatn. erne m, heth t tolel af iat a stf,at t cpa. ey ltikth we l in us iso w sth tse op ty veme c me e t wdewatrngo t rae. erwaa e ll rse en w trebupele men,ndheurveiso grt cae op jt 'susnowoh . i ch dgeusob >>iv emp. atidou ha tdon ni dlape urag wt s e scie tngha pped wwo 1ho sft sotis ostuednt14 16oushtsbeusthe ret ou ppltoor wco iexa ys

j w biclyo rkn a itndea t 3 iser l tm t e, leth bk , ckheup enhene setngth ca f m a iavtoel whveits,nde re suos tcot emulpl tis r y. 'ral spod , er ha hr,o roh es dos d econeoe. t atidt pp, bo d at >>oueath dn'foow thug n n ty e ki ne lls r urth w't gefid le ty meinrelygrio. e attu ili, ers innte dth wk.hy boer d eyilwre dn a okhaitason i llooatheoo t

bos e oersot' ju ppeat. >>lia,s atha bar'dering uqu exrice oro u init frl reestavef atapns inriterins >>t hd s. unrtaty di'tavth exriceha h. 'sartoayi ulgus iprab qteypal wh wwre ouchst es--bo psotrspt mpie pplarsere unrpd,akg esjo ouofesraonpuedo

eilitsana t b thgsapn.s u po mo a me,ouavth syat f erydy voedthpeleorng in e op bngelin sty. tk oupron anorti. ats a whist iviz, d y tt aeango at? sles say u ven ora,ndouelbendn urhi spo ioh, r ame,ndheisic toeyan tbrg u ba tfa ahae tt. toetoullheayndo t dpeti, sh t thr mi, d loofad in hpe ayorert rendor y he e mphyorvebo ckou bque lae veurth seby o rk fothlaenrcenwod veo , ite ty ntctt t arite mpy atoeitor vy w tethwaitor, e coans ivalarndhe uny, ectllcrs, piinupeoe.omim th dveoree oenan nodyetouofhean ce tgoo e thom thenreim tt adto t rpsilyeay,eay horrlehis ppinto peoplemecacresseal asul mtie at. e guar a dvi, eyary ereto opth a vy re wdomeedve50 crhe 1ofhewhe peleie

weawhathe rean mewon us rhtex m, enhoh de del gutis eyre ppedo sare.o nyscesweou alet eap sce00 1we tcoitewris,o yodot elymthfoth pelen e n,ay wld ncn u ateoe e ttg t d mmti n cresncth eapth n.t s biunrtin toige isllutbeus unkeriterinshi yocaseankn est the drivacssta les, whh keiteay rd to u n e d ow exi, fi, p w'siae i t cpa, e ck? keha w sin tt op -thgornnt eneshahi tse op, eyreotayg th wwa a st stda autowhe ppl arbrghba tou sty. th he the eastomny

anthcoandon'th chpe w psie,nd bo iatau f i soea i sils aot ofay c y dcre e essuicious deas t trspt hie? >>ea o othpele sthegac, fheof re howd ho redenguses scuedo an oat adctn r meim a h fe binonhi spo ymts, anth lkehi . at t kd pso o ghenupn e van.e was -- >>e s reedorot yi clduprt >>has ght. hdi uer stio ccutancesn e see athe a mtie inteonheanhoaye edroa atg omhe twgudsringheanan otrsei hd. the mic emir me ckitinncsi aop, d eyreurnt -i beevthligaons

gog.e s e o mn stiebeusweado ch ta authahad haen, cldige t e ti utansehoth isroedllve headeebeinfohe r ita ngimberee tulyie >>he we ltleeoe u otabt o ulsa eyerexrici sma pa, meinofedical su tt e op w a ivg e nshohthe reakg . setesorhe w o won,ene aa, won iner0' aotr o d be cplni f aong ti autavg s w - bacay loofeoe e micioanth tir diti sps inounmm pplstt hang l omeca dire wlehearonhe n.o ahth ithki ofhi wreinhaca, e ar auay nt t

brg r t hpil. dethr mpy li, th h tca and a f rmsi. e mpy id . ty ptringi d th sryitmyowke-- itoousig mth t llimrerts,o gu th o. ats w ch secht n keo gu outh iorti, d es twgudsweinlyou emthey we al uet athihahaen, at th dn'wa itoapn. u ulsath sulha go ta spalnyy d ey didt ntt hpe atou he en vid guntbuweald or 50eoe atorfothe ie iiseoe deere tuio, ki a b atayeit lls nine dla p hr dve fotwwes on e. o wldantoo at >>ndheardiouge-- ers enomrerm spodl t bge

stles atheha t fi aaitori a t op othvatoanth e t intoayheai eyeetoaitoolte te l e op, ic hd ce . >>hakind otrni tth drerreiv ty idhebeefedp eitrni, mbehe ha, t t te we arg omeoe o e yi tt eyadnyer fr t ds t wks >>heyoderi yr trni aa ive is ar y wtebo bng arasd.anouesib yo ting d y u re ar >>ea t tr ssg in waonofheorreonle in, cae t ia th ite g ius, ey want y tkn wt 'sike y d'tre o t

fit meouxpiee waonofheorreonle it >>hawaitik is fu ifes ke yoargog d. bua t t ting s keatinviotes h mbewoayof ysaleldenstrni, t erwe aotf ys th wsathe d er we nexacrsweus-- nonsucrsitous a y. whafo wksmo ds the ulbewoou, e re othti wwod t arnd >>idoueeeqpp - n n n erydyay --ncyostt e b,ou artoctlldot. sotis negud llom a t tfoowheul, anyoju d'tavengh op. u tellcado

ththgsoue ppedo do u veo keo,hi ofn anyoenupavg toserine tsulent erwaonpron wwod t t h dm hcod goo e rmansewh heprons edheou gekiedacfr tm,nd itadoulis si. >>usbeusyowe s ortaed rhtanth w sothg, w jt llin atheth grdwe dog. wldlsmeioth mecastf.hirely mir suinherite pron bau mic cts loofon. ainte haa ris ndioth thinrmy n kearof haa ris ndion th eyavtoenth o. thcora, ts est, e mpy d p t stth we ryeltant dth, sd iser

ou iwaa geos ty e ki $ p d p a. treasnean m w d ngneanheasakg hagare, d w min reat cplnt gngnt thinrmy erndve th we llg m ate walyg d vi h mri walyg d vi h mri anseinhiba. wn' unl cldt eeanor walyg d vi h mri anseinhiba. wn' unl cldt eeanor --itngprhtn e ai a t oernme t d d idhewod at m iheidt t slp.he w aonic th ept, d omhahe t ketoheosta i t m,nde d fge hele. the ors trereo ma. mesoanpelen the tuio. op w hahet ile atou g tohenfma a g p

ckn e rm >>oulswre ouho coeconofce oguds exriceuchierat o joretestss>> ah >>ea >>eaieooor wt fe ds atavon exriceuchierat o joretestss>> ar hodo aigstssosio li tt,ei s detaedheaye scbi, atfft es atavonhereme o iser wl,ouerdering urcamy sttein97 wn er wen'ma snddsndy y s neaylo. ha ce lo w sce atits w wksan erarstfi sndds anthe s ba od stfi riohaisppve roh ionetiio, d althe in, icha al bug dn e vien lelitn r pron tt wt u ed y d'tavengh

stf,evyby sre mas e ar, e af sre erydy ovretsits keoure peigan uhe a d lo, d enoureom yo ratnspsityo mi, urhireyo igor -th bom derod erim tt y rrtialfferha e ght ice tef y cuti, hight voe ra hhe ls tng the s sty re n lo a tt firsav % gh sesra opt th pplinheilar d ats meei ith kis suaonyo ntne wres tks ou a n oy pva iss t meta pso se at. ac le cafoiareifre cae eyavsu hh stdas r afngnd mecaca tnktohe ur a t crtha bn eryspt cni iss d ats atad

emvi -th elv in in dyofe le eris a re lk? aolel ixpieed th mel wathe r nt, wa inins jonasti d decided i would try to be a nice guard, as much as i could. but that didn't last very long, honestly. i felt like i just got worn down really fast. i started aving a much shorter temper. i would find myself shouting at people sometimes unintentionally. everybody does, everybody on that job loses it at different times. i had this experience where i would try to be easy-going, a

ouple people took advantage of me and i realized i have to hold the line. then you had conflicts, and you can manage everything, it is so stressful that it is hard not to see yourself surrounded by these people as out to get you, even when they are just wanting to get what they need and make it. but you can't give it to them, and you just get worn down. >> you save being a guard have a psychological effect. >> absolutely. did you ever -- being in that environment -- you are in prison for a time. did you ever find that trauma coming back on you as a guard? >> i mean -- it is hard to answer because i'm just me. i found out that i sell into the experience as a guard, it

was so intense, i was so present that i wasn't necessarily thinking about my experience before. i did find yself sometimes -- one example that comes to mind, when i was in prison, i would -- my friend josh and i would take extra food. when they passed it out we would get extra trays and eat them. one guard one day did not want to see that, and he really went off. he almost beat me, and then when i was a guard, the prison was locked down, which it often was, because of a violent incident, or because there weren't enough guards. so with the present was locked down, you had to bring food to the unit, they can't go to the cafeteria. i was passing out food tray and one guy took an extra tray, and i was on top of him, and it hit me. like, whoa.

>> and when you are with inmates like that constantly, because you don't have enough staff, that just intensifies the anger they have towards the staff. they are not thinking it's the corporations fall, they think it is your fault. they are so dependent on you for everything. >> i feel like they did think it was a corporation's fault. we talked about it a lot. i saw them talking about it with other guards a lot. they say we know this isn't your fault. but at the same time, it's like -- the way i think of it is like soldiers that are in a war, they don't believe in it, but they are still there, they still have to fight each other, even if they recognize that maybe those people on the other side aren't their enemy. >> alicia santos, what is the oversight like of private entities like prison ransportation -- is that the

name of the company? >> prison transportation companies, extradition companies. >> the one you specifically investigated was pts. >> prison transportation services, yes. that is the largest prison transportation company specializing in extradition. >> what is the oversight like of these corporations? >> zero. there was supposed to the oversight, there was a law passed in 2000 -- it is pretty ague, but it was meant to give the federal government some authority to prosecute particular types of mistreatment. but mostly, to prevent escapes. it was passed after somebody escaped from a private prison van in north dakota. he >> what is the oversight like of these corporations? murdered a young girl and was found in texas living with a new girlfriend with young children. that made people upset, the law passed in 2000. it had been enforced one time in the force of six -- in the course of 16 years. since our story, it was brought up with

ben attorney general loretta lynch, who was asked about it by a florida congressman what they were going to do after the story came out. they promised to investigate, and good news and bad news -- great, they will investigate. that this march i got a phone call from a woman that had been on a van rant by a subsidiary of prison transportation services, and she told me she watched a man die on the van last week, and that her and everybody -- excuse me, it was a bus. 26 passengers had taken a burger king wrapper and passed it around to each other and wrote down their name and contact information so they could find each other when they were all off this vehicle. they couldn't believe what they were seeing. they did this before the guy died on the bus. this was something that -- they were able to get us a list and we were able to call every single person who verified it

was real. it's tragic, because it was supposed to be something that was being looked into, and obviously it just went right back to the way they have been operating. people have been on that bus for two weeks, and we verified that. it's absolutely true, they are not just saying it. but we do know some people have been arrested really recently, actually, by the department of justice, the criminal section. it does appear they are being looked at. they are not being prosecuted under the law, more for criminal reasons, the most recent being -- both were for sexually assaulting a female that was on the vehicle. >> do you know if these services are increasingly being used to shuttle immigrants to detention centers? >> we did look into that. good thing is that those types of transports are quite different, because they are usually from one facility to the other. they are more direct.

whereas the problem with this is that it is such a crisscross -- they get another car to drive to georgia, now they are back in tennessee. it is different whereas immigration transports are done sometimes privately, because so any immigrants are held in private detention facilities, they have their own transfer arms. >> just because it is so -- private detention facilities, >> because there are so many people to move, and it's another thing they can charge for. >> we are hearing that we are going to see a lot more demand from private prison companies for immigration detention because of the crackdowns in the trump administration. jeannie woodford, do you have any sense of where we are in that ramp up? >> i really don't. i don't have the current numbers. i know there are projections

that the number of detainees that ramp up? that will be held in private prisons will double over the next few years. but i don't know if this actually -- if it is already occurring. do you? >> i'm not sure. >> it is also -- this isn't starting now. get started under obama. it went up through his presidency. i don't know the numbers, but that has been the frontier of these companies for a while, immigrant detention. there is not a lot of expansion, but there is a lot in detention. >> jeannie woodford, during this conversation you have been talking about how california has much better policies, that the courts have stepped in, it has improved have a situation is, especially after intense overcrowding, but yet doesn't california's recidivism rate remains stubbornly high, still

in the mid-60's? the return to prison rate is like 65%. >> it is actually -- it was >> it actually was over 65 started.hen we when we added rehabilitation back to the name of the corrections and expanding rehabilitation so last finally coming down. you attributed that to services prison? >> absolutely. i think that, it took us almost get to where we were with the prison problems in this a long d it will take time to unwind that and it eally is about not only what happened at the state level but the local level so realignment. you're probably all familiar with realignment. convicted of nonserious crimes are kept at the local

level. so state prisoners are held and many counties are realizing they have to do what local level to provide rehabilitation programs is doing a cisco good job but it will take a dramatic us to see a change in recidivism and i think it's good news we're starting to come down. >> you think recidivism could be shane if private prison ompanies were incentivized to lower the rate of recidivism meaning they can get payments that don't return to the prison na two or something like that. haven't there been things like that tried? i know of. there was a prison simulation game doing that and i was like wait this not what happens

in real-life. paying company extra of people that do well when they get out. prisons you like know, when we talk about prisons the end of the line of you know the d reason people, and then the issue also is beyond the prison themselves. issues and ke state the public you know programming public prison is not a whole lot better. than the onestter in the private prisons in it's so minimal. the prison i was in there cage your sses like hardly g.e.d. class that anyone could fit into so we've california i know has gone way back since the 70's.

e've had this time where a lot of rehabilitative program is etting cut and we're building these prisons for long-term solitary confinement and it's almost like a switch of approach, you know? of deal with the prison population. of any innovative private ncentivize prison companies to improve outcomes in terms of? heard of any but it would be great if they tried it. you're 're a company or a government agency contracting out of something that's you know for the public. using taxpayer money to paid for it and you set up nothing to ensure basic human dignity like even which transfer companies if there was something like if you're going to bring our you have to make sure their medical needs are met.

all that's required is that you be brought alive at some point. mean i don't think that incentives will happen because the margin of leads the profit is relatively small and as soon as absolutestelling them they're not saving money anymore and the whole point is it's like you, if the system is based on the bottom line is the most it's always for any company. they're not making money then they're not going to exist. want to be a prison guard? hy did you want to do that story? >> well, first of all it's very prisons et access to period. it's gotten harder and harder decades he years and and i've been in some california

prisons but even in california little easier than some state but you have a tour for hours and it's, that's it and you can't inter view inmate's.ly there's a lot of walls and with prisons it's even more difficult. companies and they don't have a lot of public access hat the public laws don't apply in a lot of ways to them so getting records hard. getting information about items really difficult and these existing for 30 years and we've not had a good that wasde of them and the only way that i could think of to do that and see what life the prisons. > do you think a for profit prison, private prisons have a ole in our criminal justice system? that they should be there?

a beneficial role to play? >> no. >> not at all? no. the n really again, difference, there's nothing you're adding other than cost savings. issue.really the >> and that's questionable. >> right and that's questionable. also, behind that question is, you know, really the issue of our prison population because private aisons and all this stuff are symptom because it's so big that largest in the world by far so there's going to be ways save money rying to because it's so perspective. before you speak i want audience so please think of your questions and

there's a microphone in the back right corner of the room or my left. free to line fun you have questions. >> i was just going to say you recidivism and it's so much more complicated than that. ou have to look at the entire system to address it. it starts at the person's first rrest and what happens to them when they are on probation. who are you arrested and not arresting? it's part of a whole you can't it's that holistic part to

get us to the policy in the state and elsewhere>> i have the question as i do for shane. o you think a for profit correction facility can play a beneficial role in our criminal justice system? really don't. having been a public servant i really believe in public service and i really believe that if hen you're a public servant it's really your goal to try to with taxpayer money and have clear missions and seek policies that meet that mission if your mission prophet i don't that fits into a good public policy and system that benefit all taxpayers and ebb in this state and others. stand on this? e it's unlikely they hav

anything at all but i don't necessarily think private than some of rse hearing c but we're putting that's how we're running our system but at the same time some of the no one was making a profit at also removing profit not going to fix our problem at all. >> the problem is reducing the is what it ation sounds like to some degree. >> and caring about people. agree.uld it's been horrific stories in california prisons and those the country but the difference is in a public a tem, every time you have pelican bay, things change. courts get involved and policies and staffing level and staffing training. the tools that people utilize medical care. better psychiatric care of all

happens in a public system as it evolve but in a private have companies that come back with a new name, right? thatdon't see how you make any better because their motive is profit. system buildsblic to r max prisons and things put people in a cell for 30 years. war on drugs d a and mandatory minimums and lots that particularly in the 80 which is is when we hear these private prisons becoming much more appealing but your writing book about private prisons. you're finding this model has gone back even before the 80? >> yeah. prisons for pro fit throughout american history and first prison was.

penitentiaries. to the time that we start building penitentiaries south were the and then rivatized using ompanies were prison as labor and working in fields and in mines and this went up to the early 20th states tookthen the over and the states are still trying to make a profit from these. sometimes it's private and sometimes it's the state but been a profit through the whole system up until the private l prisons were created.

> let me open it up to the audience. keep your questions short and as ody with question marks i'm reminded to get to as many people as possible. microphone.e at the what's your question? >> do you think there's a modern prison he system both private and public to the belief that it's become modern system of slavery? >> who wants to take that? shane? >> mean, the thing i would say just when i'm deep into it's a line.nd ike there's, you know we had slavery and during slavery, risons were basically subsidizing the slavery system by making clothes for slaves make r than north could them. it was very much tied into the

system. lave owners were learning from prison system for a while and hen we have prisoners doing what slaves used to do for a very long time. 1970's.ing up to the there were prisoners picking ofton in fields and the rest the company is mechanized. great. and it's not just profit issue, before the civil war ost prisoners were white immediately after most were black and have been every since. it's been a method of dealing the huge gap of wealth in the country. ways, youtrol in some can't separate it. t's not the same but it's part of the same trajectory. question? feel pre to introduce yourself.

i'meric. everybody. is there any relationship private prison the internal elicit prison economy gangs as ominence of ?uthorities within prisons? > um... drawing connection to that. i don't know. >> is there a connection between prisons and gang? >> you're nodding? >> sure. prison i was in was louisiana is strange because prison gangs like most of the country and they're is racially segregated which strange coming from california you have the idea of the deep racist and california prisons are extremely segregated but there were guards from other prisons filling in

where they t from were and one of the guards said his prison liked better because the gangs really trong there and in the prison in louisiana it was chaotic. telling e not people people what to do in the prison population and he said if doesn't make they're bed they get stabbed if they it h off they get stabed so maintains a lot of order so i heard this from several people some lawsuits about this so it just kind of comes of the under sue staffing and stuff like that. although prison guards do get there's more es concentrated hits directed by gangs. >> hi i'm kimberly and a olunteer on the board of forum so thank you for being here and thank you for doing what you do

nd even putting yourself in peril to do so for the good of the public. i was hoping you can talk a risk and reward verses the backlash from the and perhaps wrote you could comment on how it feels to be at the receiving end happens in at someone else's prison. say ll, i would interestingly a lot of the times ies there's story ore of a backlash but the prison transport story the employees of those companies even liked story. thanks for getting our story out there. the only people that didn't like the people that owned the actual companies and the acklash was silence like they just didn't talk to us and they did invite us to see some of the that we made that later realized were not real. yeah. that was nice because a lot of

do kind of get a stream, it's not always really being e but just people like screw you or whatever, but ith that one a lot of people hanks us and that was an an interesting thing because in his one we tried to make sure to point out the difficulties the guards were facing too so that.really appreciated >> when you advocate for the interest of prisoners you hear crimes sometimes maybe that youed advocateing for their needs. > i would never say i'm advocating for. >> i'm curious if you hear from them in anyway. definitely happened where people are like, you or you ike my life ruined my husband's life by

writing about this particular thing. people do say that to you and i find the best reaction is i try conversation e when i have an e-mail because e-mailing back and forth on that going to work. we're going to get know where so i usually will try to hear them because i want to hear what people have to say and they're criticisms because i want to about it the next time. it's a really sensitive material of you want to be aware everyone you impact because here's a lot of people impacted. >> hi. 'm mike and i'm executive director of a nonprofit called alliance and in looking at models for improving situation, the public trust part of our been law since before state hood and is with the rk ublic utilities commission and

utilities which are doing some amazingly dumb things with to climate change and in taking a look. is an inherently public like providing resources for water and drink of the public rust doctrine as guide posts or moving forward, you see have you heard of any citation strand of lawular in our law which is based on interests? nd it's application and correction corrections? >> no. >> i am not sure that i question.d the >> well just in terms of just

how to function in the public interest like that. something that's a stated objectives. how to make these institutions, i'm sorry? that's my understanding of it? articulated. >> you haven't seen any of that? to behind something somewhat unrelated. it's related in that this kind idea of how profit is impacting kind of people that interests.blic appropriate because i'm up here with marshal project named after marshal.ood the son of, his son, i was at a meeting and he was $150,000 he gets paid a year to sit on the board and form they passed out it

said he was brought on the board increase diversity of the whyd, so i tried to ask him he does it and he'll never answer me but he gets a lot of it.ey to do >> so if i understood it penal code says defines the purpose of for a long time the purpose was punishment and it and then four or five ago.s 2006 we added rehabilitation back into the department of i think adding hat back in set the department towards the mission that would mprove public safety by providing rehabilitative services to inmate's. point was?what your >> somethings are too important private y to treat as property and that's the basis of the public trust. you're s like what saying is closest you've seen to

there is ion getting to have thoroughgood marshal on their board? saying.what you're we have time for three more questions. rudolph.e is jarrett alifornia yas private prisons were privately owned. until the governor broke down he gates and they were held by the state until relatively there were a fter number of prisoners outside of alifornia and some inside of california. my question is do you think currently e people held in private prisons in california and california is out of state. you think that's a trend that continues are private friends to gain more power as time goes on? >> i don't think that will california at all. we've had a cap on private prisons in state of i believe 4500 for a long time and in all

try to increase that have not gone anywhere and the reason california is having is the cap on the number of housed in at can be within our prison system and the state has been doing everything to eliminate those out f state beds because they're expensive and you're sending them away from family members so i think that those private beds out of state will come to an end actually. >> thank you. >> next question. jayden and one question i had sitting back here youth.y friends and i know that it's a lot of all my listening and i was especially so one thing i was going to ask is what more do in our communities to and keep this keep going progress? >> thank you for the question.

it's a similar question i was going to ask potentially concluding question. are looking at that we're exponential f we watch for.ould what can we do? would be involved at the local level of what happens in criminal justice system. the state gave every county a bring money to rehabilitated programs to individuals involved in a system as a ice result of realignment and some counties have used that money other than programming and i think you have to pay attention to what your and where e doing they're spending money and making sure that they're putting drug treatment and mental health treatment and providing homes and medical care and things that we know work to

bring down recidivism and keep being involved in the criminal justice system. think is really important and than fighting against private prisons i think is really an issue as well. >> shane? you need to add to that? we talk about at the marshal project is one of most peoplet things have never been inside of one? some futuree way in scenario that being in our society meant you had to know and looked like like to be inside a prison. it is so enlightening and out of sight, out of behind. thinking that's never going to effect anybody i love. believe that and see what it's like inside of a prison and feel what it's like you can i don't think walk away the same. for you as a young person spreading awareness and being as

as you can because i think biggest obstacle is care. don't so making people care is really powerful. powerful. being so close to san quinton, anybody in this there?een isn't that amazing? i think it's wonderful. >> you need prison though they let people in. my comment is i don't know go doing what you then happened my family.

say that it's energy lightning to worry n't have .bout it chlt comment.ust my >> > he states california and have legalized recreational marijuana. ur attorney general want s s to nclude recreation and do you butting of heads in our federal government we have right

now. now. response if had one. mean it ainly don't rom the work i do that i believe that it would be moving. that is experience of having a loved one. having to know. interpreted that way. comments seems like what resolveing is trying to the problem and help the system

get better. i think that well, if people to be able to respond i hink they should be able to respond and that was the opportunity they were given and f you want to have more of a conversation about it please do very close s we're to concluding this situation. our system and our criminal justice system is in part ecause those in are not reflective of our population as whole they are disproportionately black or rown or populations that are population. our >> i think because of our past laws i don't know any.

including my own. it's important to go in prisons to humanize people there. people think inmate's is what on t.v. and it's just not so. they're people and they have families and we need to care about what happens to them. for me, that's why i'm so changes te about making to our public policy that we don't incarcerate people when don't need to be incarcerated. the w know that it's not length of the prison sentence that makes us safer but what we the th people with treatment we provide for them that makes us safer and so why i do what i do. after this toound make sure if you can ask questions. we can't get to it in

this panel but i encourage you ask it again. we have a tradition as we program, asking each speaker what's your 60 second idea to make the world a and i will start with you shane. don't have like an easy honestly i think when we look back on this time. he time we're living in and i mean this is in the recent decades mass incarceration will this time and i think that. laws.ng drug violent crimes the vast majority

85 percent. racism in society. i mean this is, the prison like the kind of all into the mashed up end that's the end so it symbolizes our bigger social problems. >> for me it's just really xpanding data driven decision-making and much of our emotionolicy comes from and politicians trying to win really think that is about expanding data driven every law king and and statute passed should have ata behind it to say why we're doing what we're doing. why we do what we do. >> it's pretty buy in the sky i would say if there's anyway to loosen the laws around

one of rds of prisons the most difficult things you really it's so hard to figure ut what's actually going on because the records are kept in a way that it's a security for anybody to know basically anything is a blanket just think transparency is needed. more cameras and public access what that footage shows. the department of corrections rehabilitation and ballard. thanks all of you for come hearing to share your information.

information. c-span's washington journal live every day with news and you.cy issues that impact coming up this morning michael centerrg director of the for health and homeland security relief s federal programs. evangelical advisory talked about the support for the president. with the lawyers committee for civil rights under law discusses transferring military commitment to civilian law. to watch live at 7 eastern this morning.

join the discussion. >> this morning a look at opioid pidemic and recovery and osting medical experts on the opioid crisis. live coverage on c-span 2 and c-span.org and streaming on the free c-span radio app. c-span. night on supreme court justice talks with retired chief justice of the massachusetts supreme court about her career and experience justice and the influence on former justice o'connor. here on c-span. 6:45. day on c-span at former president obama profile

award.ge at 8 national review senior editor. conservatives should not place all of their hopes in any politician. and read the federalist papers and they say this over that you should have a healthy distrust of any particular. those that came to be speaking for you. >> then at nine. and the digital revolution has transformed the economy. networks and daily newspapers no longer set national agenda that reenforce our opinions. have splitn seems to us into two