then british prime minister theresa may takes questions from parliament. ♪ announcer: this week on "q&a," executive director of paralyzed veterans of america, sherman gillums, jr. mr. gillums, a retired marine corps officer, talks about his paralysis and the work his organization does to help paralyzed veterans. ♪

brian: sherman gillums, jr., what is your job? sherman: i am the executive director of paralyzed veterans of america. brian: what is it? sherman: i empower veterans who have suffered catastrophic disabilities, to help them find their way back into life. him it is great work because it reflects my own experience. that's what i get up and do everyday, empower people to help us carry out our mission. brian: how many paralyzed veterans are there that you serve? sherman: we estimate about 60,000 in this country, most have spinal cord injuries, but a number have multiple sclerosis, lou gehrig's disease, there is spinal cord dysfunction. the common experience is the profound effect that spinal cord dysfunction has on just about every bodily system. we are bonded by that experience. it is pretty unique in terms of

the impact it has on our lives. we are sort of a core within the veterans population. as brian: i read that the veterans that paralyzed veterans of america was established after world war ii. is it a government organization? sherman: it was started as a club, a membership organization. self-advocacyut you had other bigger veterans service organizations of for a while that they were not advocating for the unique needs of veterans in that era. things like equal access in society, research. you would die in 18 months if you had a spinal cord injury back then. in fact, george patton was a war hero but he died of a spinal cord injury in 1946 because the medicine and research have not caught up with the desire to live with that injury. over time, that band of

paralyzed veterans group into -- grew into what is now a 76-year-old organization, member led advocates who look for other paralyzed veterans and pulled them in and take care of them. brian: where does the money come from? sherman: 100% from individual donors and corporations. we don't take government funding. him that is a struggle. him we have to deliver results. we have to have impact, and we are proud of that because we do have impact. because we are free from government funding, we are not bound by those relationships or having to deal in that way. we can be the opposition, and truly advocate for our members because we have independence. brian: what year did you join the marine corps and why? sherman: i thought about it, i was probably a sophomore in high

school. whoever did the advertising was looking for me. i think back there it was a dragon with the marine in dress blues. the sword. brian: where were you? sherman: buffalo, new york. i was smart enough to go to school but i did not think that was for me. i wanted to get out of buffalo and see the world. i loved the uniforms, but i wanted to be a military police officer. i'm not sure why i have that fixation early on. i wanted to do that, and i felt the marine corps was the path because of the reputation of the discipline. i joined on my 17th birthday, my mother had to sign the papers for me to even talk to the recruiter. i was pretty certain the young age this is what i wanted to do. brian: what year was that? sherman: 1990, i joined boot camp right after high school. brian: what was your experience in the marine corps like? sherman: i grew up in a single parent household, my mother was

the father figure and the mother figure, but the marine corps became that father figure. i gravitated to that instantly, i love the discipline. i love how hard it was, it felt like something i needed to earn. it took a lot of pride in the difficulty i endured to get that uniform, that title. but it fills a hole for me in my life. i think to this day i a lot of what i am to that early experience of embracing the marine corps as a father figure, embodied in drill instructors and mentors i had in the early years, and a lot of my judgment today, the way i view life, it began in those days through those people. brian: you and

mentioned drill instructors. they have somewhat of a reputation for people outside of the marine corps, tough guys. you ended up being one. how did that happen, and what year in your marine corps time did you become a drill instructor? sherman: i went back to paris island in 1997, so seven years later. it was a choice i made. i was a sergeant in the marine corps, and that is about the time you have to decide what you will do, the recruiter option, become a security guard, a drill instructor. that is to give you a little diversity in your career. i said, i want to go back and be that person i admire. that is exactly how i pattern myself. i had a great set of drill instructors as a recruit. i wanted to him you lay them. because i knew i wanted to emulate them. because i knew the impact it had on me, i wanted to do that same

thing for a lot of young men who probably shared my experience. i fancied myself as being that mentor and example that would shape their worldview, and the choices they would make later in life. it is an eclectic mix. you think of the marine corps as type a jocks, but you get the nerds, the gangbangers, the loners, they are all looking for something. that's why the marine corps works, it get you that identity that everyone can get behind. brian: what was your approach as a drill sergeant that you decided to take because of the drill sergeants you might have had in the past? did you have any rules for

yourself? sherman: one thing i took for my senior drill instructor, you have to be an example first. you don't ask anybody to do something you're not willing to do, and to do it at the same level of excellence. you can't have a bad day, you have to be ready. i went into every contact with my platoons to be that model of perfection as close as i could become. of course, we are all fallible, but when you're on a run, you don't show weakness. and you are consistent. that is one of the secrets of being a good disciplinarian, you are consistent. don't go too far in any one direction, expectation does not waver. i think recruits appreciate consistency in the demand for discipline. i tried to emulate that as much as i could. brian: what do you think happens with a civilian who goes into the marine corps and it is a tough situation with the discipline?

him and him and and him and him sherman: you get tested along him sherman: you get tested along all of your vulnerabilities. everyone has something they are not appointed to be good at. i don't know of a single recruit that was perfect at anything, marksmanship, swimming, running, being able to take stress. a lot of recruits would wrestle with things they brought to boot camp. you could tell the guys that did not have a lot of good parenting but wanted something better ended on a how to achieve it. you actually develop these sort of one-on-one engagement with these young men, even though there are a lot of them, you try to figure out what is that thing you are going to overcome? for me it was a dad and wanting that completeness.

but i think everybody finds that one thing they need to overcome, you all get the same uniform at the end. it is a true meritocracy, but you all at the end of it, you of all achieved the goal and you get uniform and the drill instructor shakes her hand. that means everything, because you have overcome a demon or something personal to get there. brian: what was your toughest moment at the camp? toughest moment in anybody? for me or for brian: from what you have observed?

sherman: the realization that you made a choice you probably regret in that first week. i think you realize you stepped into something very serious, these are usually 18 to 22-year-olds and they've never taken anything serious in her life to this level. once you get there, you are not a prisoner because you could leave, you can quit, but there is something inside of you that compels you to tough it out, it comes at a cost. you lose your sense of yourself. it is chaos, i am isolated, i feel alone, i don't know these people. at the same time, you understand you are going through a metamorphosis, you are there to be changed and transformed and this is what it takes, it takes understanding that this is what marines do and how they are created. you are being pounded like a diamond from a piece of coal. it is a tough process in the beginning. but if you can endure that, you will make it. and it's just a matter of getting through it. brian: what percentage don't make it? sherman: it fluctuates. when i was a drill instructor, we had a concerted effort to not drop as many recruits. it was probably about 10% of the platoon level. i had one kid who was really overweight but was really

determined, and i decided to keep him. at the end of six months, i did not recognize him. you want to see somebody really appreciate the change and transformation. while some instructors were quick to get rid of the weak ones, i tried to hold onto the ones who had heart. brian: when did you leave the marine corps? sherman: 2002. brian: what happened in 2001? where was your accident? sherman: it was in 2002, at camp

pendleton. february 20. the day began pretty neat. i was training for the los angeles marathon, and we were in california. we were training with the pendleton running team and i was finalizing my affairs because we were getting ready to deploy to afghanistan. so i had a lot going on. of an was, you know, sort life.\ion point in my i left the base. brian: southern california. sherman: san diego, the oceanside area. brian: near where richard nixon used to live. sherman: yes, a big base there. i got in my car, i left the base like i did all the time. i call it a freak accident because the was no rhyme or reason for how it happened.

a truck, a semi truck got cut off by a guy who's worked in front of the truck, i guess he missed his exit. i only know this because i read the reports, i do not recall any of it. he cut the truck off, the truck swerved and i swerved to miss the truck and lost control and my car flipped three times, landed on its roof. that was the story, according to the report i read. medivac-ed. they repaired my c4 vertebrae, and i woke up about three days later at scripps memorial hospital, and that was the new chapter. brian: were you married then? sherman: no. brian: what was your first thought when you woke up? sherman: my first thought was i cannot breathe.

breath?t i take a i wasn't sure what happened to me but i was on a machine and i did not know i was hooked to it until i try to take a breath and i heard it slow my breathing down. i tried to take another breath and it stopped me. i saw the connection, felt the connection through the breathing and i thought, i'm going to suffocate. i don't know where i am or what happened but i am going to suffocate because this thing is stopping me from taking a deep breath. that was my very first thought. the next thought was, how did i get here? brian: was there anybody you knew near you at that time? when you woke up? theman: i think it was in middle of the night and there

whot have been a nurse walked by and he stopped and looked at me and then passed by. yell but i could not because i was intubated. i remember he stopped, looked at me and then walked away. i thought, i'm going to die, ams guy does not realize i going to suffocate. i must have passed out after that, i don't remember too much until i was awakened again by

the surgeon, who explained, and i am on morphine and all kinds of medications, he explained i have been in an accident and i accepted it. i am a pretty stoic individual, it's the way i was raised, and the marine corps. but i wanted to know details. what happened, did anybody else get here, where am i, what happened? i did not get a whole lot of that until later. but my brain was alive and firing off, but my body was not connected. i was in two different senses of myself. brian: did you ever meet any of the people involved in the accident? sherman: i did not, i did talk to a police officer, a first responder. he gave me a brief explanation of what he saw, and then took down my story, he had to get details for my point of view and i gave him what i could remember. but i never did, i would love to do that, but i don't know their names. i would not even know where to look, i'm not sure if it is in the medical records or not. brian: who was held as being at fault? sherman: the driver of the car that cut off the truck was at fault, i found out later he did leave the scene but turned himself in a day later after he got an attorney. he was an out of work actor, a smalltime actor, nobody famous. that was about it. i think i wanted to detach from the situation by not knowing too

much because then i'd hold it i didn'this person and want to waste time. brian: how long were you in the hospital? sherman: the first hospital, 11 days, which is about on average to stabilize. i got transferred to the v.a. medical center in san diego for three months. brian: when did mom find out? sherman: either the same day or shortly after, a lot of the family was called. my family flew in that week to see me. i have family in california already, so they gave her a lot of details. it was really tough, because i am her oldest son. i probably had seen her just about a month before, and my sister two days before that. i was upright and walking around, and then here i am in this position where there is a lot of uncertainty about how this will turn out.

it really did break their heart. it probably hurt them more than it hurt me because they could not control anything, they do not have information. it left a scar that i think runs pretty deep today. brian: a couple of weeks ago you made a presentation in front of a group telling them the story of pain and all that. what was the group? sherman: it was the paralyzed veterans of america health summit that we put on every year. the group was about 900 spinal cord injury professionals who work with spinal cord diseases and dysfunction, therapists, doctors, nurses, social workers, anyone who would touch that population. we have this once a year, it is the largest in the country. it is also mostly employees of the department of veterans affairs. it is a convening of that specific group of professionals.

brian: we're going to show a 30-second clip. but let'sredundant, watch. willave a technique we show. sherman: close your eyes for a moment -- close your eyes, i see you. [laughter] sherman: trust me, empathy. i want you to stretch your imagination. [crashing] sherman: open your eyes. that is how fast it happens. in a blink, no warning. brian: the reaction of the audience was dramatic. did you expect that? sherman: i don't know what i expected. i think i just wanted something different, something to register that these people you are caring

for were not born this way, they did not just happen to fall into your care. something bad happened, and maybe the sound effect, maybe that would help that. i wanted something different to register, to set the tone of what we would talk about. brian: you talk about empathy and compassion. discuss that a bit. sherman: i think there's any doubt that most providers are compassionate and how they do their work. the point i made was compassion is about healing. you are healing these people, you are trying to release pain. empathy is different. it is difficult to empathize with people you don't immediately identify with. when you are a doctor or nurse, i found in my experience, they don't immediately empathize or understand what it feels like. you are relieving pain, but do you understand, some of the things you say makes a difference.

i talked about how my doctor told me for the first time i would never walk again, very callous. it lacked humanness. i said to myself, would that dr. want to hear that news that callously? maybe that is the profession, to stay detached, that it was not helpful, it did not help me see him as a healer. it made me mad. it's the same way you find out you have a cancer diagnosis, it is just, you have cancer. you are a healer on more than one level. when you are telling somebody news that bad, how about -- you have some, you know, you are talking to a human being, not an object. that plays out when you are in care for a long time and in

rehab, you see too many instances of that. nowbecause i work with them advocate, i point out to -- you are dealing with a world war ii veteran, you are mad, you are a nurse, and the sky has probably sacrificed more than you ever will for this country. have some empathy, what if this would your grandfather or dad? that was the tone i wanted to set. i did not want to give them a tongue lashing. i wanted them to know i appreciate the path they chose, but the lack of empathy is why the v.a. found itself in the position where it is now being challenged in terms of its purpose and whether we need to have this system of care as we know it today. brian: here is you describing being paralyzed. [video clip]

sherman: at this point, stop moving. this side of the room, you are quadriplegics, stop moving. please. this side of the room, you are paraplegic, you are the lucky ones, you cannot move, bear with me. you cannot move, you're paralyzed. you have to accept it. over here, you can wave your arms and scratch but don't stretch your legs -- because you cannot. brian: when you woke up in hospital, how much could you move? sherman: nothing. when i woke up, i could move my head, i was in a philadelphia collar, but i could not feel my body.

it is a very surreal state of being. the only thing i could compare it to that would make sense to someone who does not know what it feels like, if you stood at the edge of a cliff with your toes hanging off and you leaned your head over. one push, and you go over. that is what it feels like the connection to your body. it feels like i am going to fall any moment and somebody is holding me up, but i feel like any moment, a gust of wind will push me over. that does not even adequately describe it, that there is no real feeling i can analogize for the able-bodied world. it feels like that, you will fall over at any moment. brian: how much pain did you feel? sherman: not at first. you can't feel anything. there is no pain there. brian: are you saying in the car or in the hospital?

sherman: i would say the first 10 days, i could not feel anything. i was on so much morphine at the time. the pain is just the uncertainty, anxiety, fear. and the real pain does not kick in until you start to heal and the condition resolves itself and the nerve pain begins to creep then and you start to realize, i can still feel my body but now it hurts. i don't know if you have ever had frostbite it is pretty bad condition, imagine your whole body feels like that, pins and needles and it does not stop. if you have joint problems with shoulder rotation and all of those things, all the exercises and pushing the chair and those kind of things. brian: what did happen to you physically? sherman: the spinal cord injury itself was incomplete. that is hard to explain for people who don't understand what that means, but you have a complete injury where the spinal cord is completely severed, and you have incomplete where it has been damaged but not severed. that causes a paralysis, because of the celll death.

oxygen sodon't get they die. permanent, but only partially. you had christopher reeve lose everything, he had complete injury. but it is different for everyone. in my case, i was considered an incomplete spinal cord injury at a certain function level, i can move my arms, move certain muscles below the waist. i cannot move them, but i can feel them. you have sensory but not motoring. there are things you feel and don't feel. sort of a patchwork, and it differs on the individual. brian: how many operations did you have? sherman: just one to repair my spinal cord. i was fortunate. brian: what's the worst thing

say to someone who inury or anynal injury and you spend all that time of the hospital, i am sure you have heard it. sherman: the worst thing i hear is that maybe one day you will walk again. maybe you will get in the gym or god will perform a miracle -- and it is not the intention behind the words that make it bad, it is the fact that i am fine with how things turned out. i'm having a pretty good life, i got married, i have a child postinjury, am doing fine, i have a full-time job. there is a perception that there is something more or something wrong with me from people who don't understand that sometimes, you accept your condition and move on. it's not the walking that

bothers me, maybe it's not having full manual dexterity or other functions, but that always bothers me a little bit, although i understand why somebody would say it. i think that's probably the one thing i would rather not hear. brian: back to this event you have for the 900 people who work in this kind of world helping people. this is about 50 seconds, and this again goes back to the actual moment when the accident happened. clip] sherman: you are sitting there in early paralyzation, the next sound you hear after the accident you suffered, it is not a chainsaw or lawnmower, it is the jaws of life. [motor] sherman: your car is cut open like a can, the things you remember are the smell of twisted, burnt metal. it will haunt you for the rest of your life.

everytime you have that smell. your body is extricated from the vehicle, and the last sound you will hear before going completely unconscious is this. [sirens] sherman: then it fades to black. brian: did you have that same experience? >> i imagine i did. because i was conscious. wasrding to the records, i able to give my phone number, where i worked. i am aware the jaws of life were used. the body goes into protection mode where the brain does things to protect itself from shock. as i understand what happened, i piece it together. but i cannot say i recall it totally.

brian: the spinal injuries you deal with all the time and beenially people who have in combat, what is the difference between what they got and what you got. >> my first case was a young marine who shot himself in the stomach because he thought his comrades were wanting to kill him. there was another kid who was blown up by an iud and was paralyzed. it becomes such a profound state of being that i cannot compare it to what i went through. these guys carry so much more because they have a survivor's guilt.

if they have a traumatic brain injury, that is a challenge unto itself. i saw a big difference in the way life has changed when you are in a car accident and when someone tried to kill you. back,u have to bring that rehabilitate with all your family.

i got to appreciate that it is profound. brian: did you get any sense of what impact it had on those 900 people when you did this presentation and have you done it before? sherman: this one was about me, the feedback i got was we needed this because i know what they go through. i deal with the secretary and those who talk about what the department of veterans affairs is and should be. i speak from a lot of places about this problem but in that room, i'm telling them, this is the problem. this is what i see from a advocacy perspective, you have to emphasize that will make it the ideal provider for veterans who have gone to combat and sacrifice. they appreciated the wake-up call that we gave them at the event. brian: one more clip from your

presentation. [video clip] sherman: when you wake up -- this is the first thing you hear. [breathing machine] sherman: this is what it sounds like to be maintained by a machine. these are the next set of sounds that will haunt you as you try to figure out what happened as you sit starring in the dark.

brian: you have been in both private hospitals and the va hospital, do people who are working there know what it sounds like, all the noise in the background and can anything be done about it if you do not like it? don't think they the staff,se, they when you're in a low state of know theu don't sad?ing, is it happy,

it is a cacophony of confusion. because you're paralyzed, you already feel like you have given up control. it is usually in darkness it is more pronounced and it does not stop until you fall asleep. no one means to make it bad. that is just the way hospitals are. that is why i prefer not to be in them, to be frank about it. but i think that, the experience for me, the noises is what i took away. brian: you found yourself in the white house. youill watch this and ask abluout it. [video clip] trump: this is called the

choice program improvement act. this bill shows it improves the veterans choice program so that more veterans can see the doctor of their choice. we have made a lot of strides for our veterans. they have not been taken care of properly. correct? that sherman: i will always qualify by saying that is correct but in many cases -- it just depends on the situation. there are some hospitals that are part of the va system that are great but there are egregious instances where veterans were not taking care of properly. brian: what was it like being with the president? sherman: we are there to get business done. we do not get enamored by the moment. you are the leader of this country, what are you going to do to fix this? servant, he is a public before he is anything.

i looked at it as though it was my opportunity and obligation to speak for men and women who have never had this audience. i felt the weight of that responsibility more than anything. later you exhale and say this is the white house and the president but first you have to speak for the people you represent. do,n: and what did that act or will it do? well, this act was to continue the veterans choice program. there is no reliable formula on how to fix what is going on at instances. some this took away some of the red tape. this was the first step towards improving what was known as the choice act. brian: what would you tell the

president that you would like done for paralyzed veterans? sherman: i told him a lot of changes are occuring and everyone has different ideas about what is best for veterans. there are veterans who have suffered catastrophic disabilities. vulnerable, most relativelyulation is but if you do right by that population, you will be able to fix everything else. the problem starts with those who need the most from this department. if you can get it right, it will bring greater things later. we have had good gains since that time in terms of investment in what are known as foundational services.

rehab.cord injury, the secretary has directed 5% of hospital budgets needs to be invested. this was while we are talking about expanding care to the community. most veterans can get pretty good care outside of the va but there are things va does well. you cannot outsource it. you have to invest in it. i think we are going in a good direction. brian: when you have hundreds of v.a. hospitals and 180 billion and a budget, how do you keep thatssion and empathy in

organization? sherman: we have to be intelligent advocates. we have a presence in those spinal cord injury centers and as long as we do not forget our purpose, which is to speak for them. it is about the individuals who give us our purpose. we are doing our psych visits. we speak directly to the patients. unfiltered reports to the secretary. you listen to the patients. brian: if you go into one of those spinal care centers, what you see? sherman: every sight visit is a

comparison of that center to what we consider the model. we start with a discussion with leadership. we talk about what happened last year and what changes are taking place. we have nurses who are experts in what should be happening clinically. we talk to the different disciplines in the spinal cord injury team. and we talk to the patients. there are three questions i asked, how is the food? if it is cold when it is given to patients, you are probably understaffed. how is the cleanliness? that helps us understand the morale and the final question deals with the nursing staff and how responsive the nursing staff is to your needs.

when you hit that call switch, does it ever go unanswered? how is it on weekends? how is it at night on nightshift? from there you can identify understaffing, a leadership issue, whether there are equipment issues or injury issues. overall.is just morale brian: what would be the difference if you had had that accident this year versus when you had it in 2002? sherman: the difference today, certainly there have been gains in medicine. first responders have a different protocol. i was given a steroid shot when

i was found which is not considered as effective. there are cold therapies now used to treat on the scene. there are machines now that stand you up, different medications that make life a little bit easier. i would explore how different things are than they were before. i have forgotten my own patient experience. more about how we can maximize progress for today's veterans. yearsf i didn't have it ago, i want to see that progress continue.

brian: what is happening in iraq and afghanistan in regards to this spinal cord injury? sherman: folks assumed there was a great deal of spinal cord injuries in the recent conflict but there has not been. the body is protected a lot better. i know of two or three cases where the service member was shot in the spine and he walks today because of the battlefield medicine. they get you back in the states within 48 hours. before, if you did not survive this affliction, you would be stuck somewhere. about 250 total we have counted of actual spinal cord injuries was only about 250 to 300. brian: what do you think about the way congress and the president deals with veterans overall and how the public

treats them and how much money is being spent? sherman: today, the money is there. it is how we spend it. it is how he gets prioritized. that is the question. while the spirit of patriotism is there, there are not a lot of people joining the military. there is a recruiting problem. less than 1 percent and this was after we got attacked. not a lot of people raised their hand to fight.

not a lot of putting real skin in the game. i try not to divine anyone's intent or love for the country but i am surprised how people are willing to sacrifice for their country. brian: you talked about pain, do you have it? sherman: i have the nerve pain throughout my body. a consequence of working, being active. a lot of people take a lot of medications. i take very little if any. because it has side effects. i would rather live life and

endure pain than to be limited by a drug. so i am not a typical case. the doctor is always surprised by how little medication i take but it does come with the price of paint. -- pain. how often do you spend chair.ole day in this sherman: i sleep about six hours a day and the rest is in this chair. brian: can you walk at all? sherman: no. there is a lot of research going on. some of it is promising. animal research is controversial right now. i have seen indications --research is such that you have to be patient. breakthroughs happen when they happen.

as an organization, we have invested a lot in researching the spinal cord. why cell death happens, can cells be regenerated after they die, how we can replace functions that were killed off by a trauma to the spinal cord. i'm not a researcher. we are in partnership with yale and the new haven v.a. as a person who lives with his help, i am encouraged by what i see. -- this hope, i am encouraged by what i see. brian: you mentioned animal research, here is the congressman dave on the floor the house of representatives.

[video clip] >> my amendment will stop funding for dog experiements at the va. we were disturbed by the types of experiments conducted on the puppies. the type of work they were doing was on the level of torture. brian: where does that issue stand now? sherman: this was a report out of the richmond be a medical v.a. medical center. there were canines being tested with cardiovascular research. the report talked about -- in this case he is the congressman from the state of virginia and he would have richmond hit in his territory. so he took that report and legislation that would get essentially banned not all of the specific types of animal research the causes pain. that is a broad issue.

the issue for us was not that this should be an accountability case. if they diverted from protocols there should be accountability. the undersecretary can stop funding, shut down a laboratory. none of that happened. the individual found in violation was removed and that is where it should have stayed. none of that happened. the house had a voice vote. unanimous. they banned animal research. this had repercussions they did not understand. for us it was not about banning animal research, it was understanding what the implications are when you stop research. there are reasons research happens in a certain way. at least if you understand why you would use a canine as opposed to a mouse or a monkey, let's talk about that.

let's understand. there are a lot of things that have come out of animal research. pacemaker, the artificial pancreas, insulin. again, we are not going to defend any type of specific research but we're going to have a conversation or forced conversation to consider the implications if you stop certain things, especially if it is a reaction to what was essentially an isolated incident. brian: senator john mccain talking about an issue that you have a lot to say about. about what you said. let's watch. clip] mccain: it has been more than a month since allegations that some 40 veterans died while waiting for care at the phoenix

v.a. were first made public. the obama administration has yet to respond. v.a. is suffering from problems in this culture that require strong leadership. brian: the head of the v.a. at the time left. i read that the inspector general of the v.a. said there were only 6 out of 40 that died. sherman: that story grew a lot of tentacles. it would not matter if it was one or 100. if someone dies, they should be held accountable. there was clearly inefficient. we reported in 2011 that they had a staffing problem. it was not addressed. on some level, it needed the attention. the undersecretary at the time was not a good leader. this was inevitable. it went way too far because it was not fixing the problem to

talk about it in the way a lot of people did. issue so thate nothing was good enough. the reality is it was a system underfunded and understaffed too long. no one measured the need and provided the wherewithal to meet that demand. it was not unique to phoenix. phoenix is where the bottom fell out, but there were many facilities that could have been phoenix across the country. and while a lot of them were run by good, well-meaning people, it was going to fall apart at some point in that is exactly what happened in 2014.

brian: any improvement? sherman: there has been improvement. because the public is aware of this and looks for it, that is incentive for v.a. leaders to do better, to be more mindful and listen more. i think that secretary mcdonnell started a lot of initiatives. they are being carried forward by the current secretary. could he get better? yes. but we are seeing leaders acknowledge the problem. that is the best transition that i have seen undertaken and i think that is the best hope for finally fixing what is happening. brian: how much money do you need to raise to function per year? sherman: $100 million.

brian: where does most of that money go? our core mission is to provide benefit assistant, medical advocacy, research and education, and fight for the civil rights and dignity of our members and to educate the public. a majority of our share goes to those functions. brian: how many people work for the paralyzed veterans of america? sherman: 260. we have offices in 68 locations around the country and in puerto rico. brian: why were you picked to run this organization? sherman: a lot of it was luck. being in the right place at the right time. the reality is there was a near and dear mentor to me, a former executive director of paralyzed veterans of america. homer townsend. we lost a must year.

he succumbed to the effects of spinal cord injury. we lost him last year. he lived for 42 years with the injury. i met him on one of the assignments for the committee and he saw something in me. i don't know what it was, but he sought. he asked me to come to washington, the see i did that. i worked at the appeals office for a year and a half. he took me to the benefits office. i went to washington and he handpicked me to run the veterans benefits department and then replace them. i will credit his wisdom for why i was selected but i'm trying to live up to every expectation he had of me. brian: if people want to give to the group you run a organ in touch with the group, went should they do?

-- or get in touch with the group, what should they do? sherman: anyone who wants to give, learn about what we do. go to vagov.org. we do not talk about ourselves enough in public and try to do that. pva on also find us at facebook and twitter. we have partners who have great programs. we have penske truck rental. ups. great companies that have been with us for a long time and love what we do. brian: what was your last rank when you left the marine corps? sherman: i was a chief officer. brian: when did you meet your wife? sherman: 2011. my youngest son is four. and i have four teenage an older son. brian: where a lot of time. out of time. sorry we cannot talk about it

more. sherman gillums, he is the executive director of the paralyzed veterans of america. thank you so much. sherman: thank you. ♪ announcer: for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. join date programs are also available as c-span podcasts. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] announcer: if you enjoyed the "q&a" interview, here are some other things you might like. david wood on his series about severely wounded veterans.

and the journalist david -- on his book "thank you for your service or goat you can watch any time or search our entire video library at c-span.org. ♪ announcer: cspan's washington journal. live every day with news and policy issues that affect you. discussingn monday, the week ahead in washington. -- economist christopher talks about mortgage interest deduction. be sure to watch c-span's washington journal live at 7:00 a.m. eastern monday morning. discussion. >> tomorrow, a conference on countering violent extremism.