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next we hear from senator and former naval 80 or -- former naval aviator john mccain. he was captured, beaten, and held in 50 conditions with poor medical care -- in filthy conditions with poor medical care despite receiving injuries. his years of a -- his time as a p.o.w. was spent in solitary confinement. legacyected on the war's and impact on america. senator mccain, when you look back 50 years ago on when your plane went down in hanoi, what today, and your opinion -- what today, in your opinion, are the legacies of vietnam. sen. mccain: before we get into a conflict, we had better have a strategy to win at a way to get out.

this was a steady drip, drip, drip. it is still not clear to this day the competition between idiot newbies -- between vietnamese ships and american ships, which led to the resolution led by lyndon johnson to a complete lack of focus and strategy on how to bring it to a close. becausey sympathetic the one thing that overrode most of lyndon johnson's thinking, appropriately, was china. we certainly didn't want to have a confrontation and conflict that would lead to a real conflict there. it cautioned all of our actions so that it was a very gradual not onlyn, which then didn't harm the enemy, but strengthen the resolve.

course, to all kinds of implications and repercussions. the new age, the use of drugs, demonstrations. right out here on the small there was -- on this small there was -- this mall there was would million people whenever. it really split our nation in ways we forget. a masto menstruation in chicago that all of us can look back and see on c-span -- a mass demonstration in chicago that all of us can look back and see on c-span, most of it was bread by the -- most of it was bred by the conflict. income levele most of america and the highest that a doctor would

say they had a bone spur. that is wrong. later in the war we went to the lottery system. the four years and years, it was the most income americans, which -- the lot of minorities lowest income americans, which means a lot of minorities, were forced to fight. to me that is a black mark on this country, asking the lowest income level to fight for us while the wealthiest state home. brian: when you were in your a4 taking off from the carrier, how apprehensive were you when you are flying into a place like northern vietnam that you would get shot down? sen. mccain: we had a horrific fire and i was hit by a missile and all of that. my plane was. on the flight deck. then i transferred over, flying

off another carrier when i was shot down. i was a young fighter pilot. i was 28, something like that. that is what i wanted to do with my life. i wanted to go to combat. i wanted to go against the enemy. it wasn't so much that they were the enemy as that that is what i was trained to do all those years. i wanted to do it. i didn't want to fly this combat mission. i was ready to go. my contemporaries and squad mates were the same way. we took a lot of losses. things of the great about being a fighter pilot is you are sure that everybody else is going to get shot down, but not you. [laughter] brian: and when that happened, how many vietnamese were around you in the water? sen. mccain: when i first went in, is a long story, but i was

barely able to get back to the surface. then a bunch of them jumped in. there's a picture which i am sure you will show of them pulling me out of the lake. you can see my arm is broken. once they pulled me out, they weren't very happy to see me because i had just finished bombing the place. it got pretty rough. , hurt mye my shoulder knee again. but look, i don't blame them. i don't blame them. we were in a war. i don't like it, but at the same war anden you are in a you are captured by the enemy, have tea.expect to

long story short, they pulled me out of the lake, beat me up a little or a lot, and then i went to the now famous hanoi hilton prison, just a short drive away. abouta very long story how they found out who my father was and decided to give me wonderful and two americans thought they had moved me in to die, took care of me and nursed me back to health. after they saw me in better health, they put me into solitary confinement. look, i don't hold a grudge against the north vietnamese. i don't like them. there are some i would never want to see again. but at the same time, i was a part of a conflict. ime of the meanest people

have ever met in my life, and i know i will never see them again. but there were several that were good people and that were kind to me. that is why it was much easier support president clinton and others in the normalization of our two countries to heal the wounds of war. brian: when you got that, how much did you and your dad talk about it? sen. mccain: a lot. it was very hard on my dad, particularly since i knew what was happening to me and he didn't. everybody that would come through hawaii in his command would want to talk about me. they did the right thing. they said, please just don't .alk about admiral mccain's son years,hristmas for four he would fly all the way to the dmz, the dividing line between north and south vietnam, and

have christmas dinner with the marines, and then of course ,ember -- then of course remember, these were draftees. they do not volunteer. these were 18 and 19-year-old kids. you see those pictures, they are just beautiful. he would come back very happy and restored from that experience. very -- he was very cognizant of the fact that the north vietnamese valued my presence. and as you know, there were so many stories we could tell, but they offered me a chance to be released, but our code of byduct says sick and injured order of capture.

saying no wasn't the easiest thing to say. i don't mean to bounce around, but three years afterwards, after i had refused, on christmas eve in hanoi, i was in solitary confinement. every cell at a loudspeaker and it. they were playing christmas music. i still were member -- i still remember that one of the songs was "i'll be home for christmas." that was a bit nostalgic. but anyway, the same leader of all the camps came into my cell. to make a long story short, he told me about an island that ho chi minh used to love to go to, that many years later i donated a visit to and went to. importantly, at the end of the evening, it was truly

social. he was giving me cigarettes and tell me about the island at how his father had been part of the the admin -- deviant men -- the viet minh and all of that. but he was saying there's an island that ho chi minh has an island views -- an island he uses to relax and refresh, and that his father was going out there, and nobody knows about it. -- and i said, i'm i know about

the island. so, six months later we got on the boat and went out looking at the sunset from the balcony of ho chi minh's bedroom. notas not really big but small. could probablyu walk from end to end of it in a half an hour. we spent the night there and so to-- as i say, he came washington in and he has since passed away. -- as the interpreter

>> in paris? these talks? senator mccain: in the wall in my office there is a cable that was sent back to the state department, classified, secret, that le duc toit at the tea break, said the fee enemies had intended to release admiral mccain's son, but he refused. that was part of the documents that we declassified because for a while there everybody was believing we had left americans behind. -- such longe stories -- but senator mitchell and senator and all set up a by me committee headed

and john kerry and part of the deal was that the conspiracy theory people said there are all these secret documents that would prove we left americans the hind. so, part of our reporters we said that everything has to be declassified that has anything mias.with pows and one of the documents was the one i mentioned to you. it was from abel harriman in paris back to the state department. and that was really remarkable. thousands of documents came out. and that one was more than interesting. > let me ask you about -- senator mccain: sorry for the long answers. >> that's ok. thanks we're going through an area where there is a lot of hate speech. i want to ask you.

you come out of the vietnam war and say, i am not bitter. relate that to what our president said about you when he hero," whate no war did that feel like? here's a guy that had five deferments. how do you process that. mccain: i just ignored. i watch what the president does, not what he says. thing about -- the important thing about that statement is it is not about me. not long ago, after he said that, occasionally people come , whosehat served relative served in the war and did not get the metals they reserved -- deserve. a 92-year-old man from scottsdale, arizona, a prisoner of war and germany wade 110

--nds when he finally was when the germans finally stopped fighting. so we gave him his medals. it was wonderful. at a retirement home. all of them were there. it was very moving. i was talking to them before it and he said, senator mccain why is it that donald trump does not like me? i said, sir she does. he ended, so do all americans. so was not what he said about me arena. i am in the but that 92-year-old man who came out of faced a log -- came weighing 110ag pounds, that is who i care about. brian: how much of this came out of a time of our existence when

the government was not telling us the truth? senator mccain: the government was not telling us the truth. the whole back to apparatus had this idea about quote -- unquote graduated de-escalation. we could come to a peaceful end. it was pumping up the morrell of the north vietnamese because they thought they were beating us. we were fighting back from the aggressors. so the whole concept was fatally flawed and to prove that point was when the talks in paris had , finally richard nixon said, go ahead and what some out. we went in with b-52s and other aircraft and took out all

existence. guess what? they agreed to negotiate. so, the problem i think had a lot to do with a belief that thehow you can convince enemy to compromise when the enemy does not think they are being beaten. and of course, the tet offensive, there is so much we could talk about, such a morale andt for the chinese russians, giving them everything that one in. i mean, still the most heavily defended place in the history of the world was hanoi with the russian surface-to-air missiles. most people won't believe this, but a russian ship would show up in the harbor, offloaded the missiles onto a vehicle, taken up, put in place, while we watched it. we watched it.

then those missiles were fired at american aircraft. that is worse than ridiculous. the first target i had when i was in combat had already been bombed 12 times. of rubble.le so i went in and bombed the rubble again. not far away from it was a bridge that was not on the approved list. that is not the way to fight a war. vietnamese, at a prison, they said you are not tortured. mccain: no, i was treated like a king. the featherbed had some lumps in it that i would like to -- what about they say you were not tortured in we told people we have not tortured. i know you have been against the idea. why is it so hard for government to tell the truth? senator mccain: it is a classic

communist -- what do you think? they would say yes, we beat him up. we broke his arm again. don't do it either. we don't tell the truth. senator mccain: yes. and that is one problem i have had for a long time now. our treatment of detainees. mostis one of our embarrassing chapters in my view of american history, is the way we treated -- there is a story waterboardedbeen and they sent a message back to cia saying, we cannot get anything out of him. in their answer was, waterboard him some more. waterboarding was deemed a war crime and japanese officers were shot and executed because they waterboarded people. it is clearly a war crime. the cia hasway,

gotten away with it. they destroyed the film. they destroyed a lot of the information and it would be a black mark on the history of this country if we did that. frankly, i will never forget the cia for what they did. brian: back to the comparison on something, we know a lot about your torture. what has been harder for you, living through the torture or living through the cancer? senator mccain: well, i think, you know, living through cancer is a challenge that i have. living through torture is you never know what is going to happen the next morning. whether they're going to come around and open yourself door and say, come on out. so, at least with this fight that i'm in i know the enemy and i know what we have to do and i know that we take the consequences. alumni also say, brian, that i

have had, we are talking about 50 years. i'm the most fortunate person of all of the thousands you have interviewed that you will ever know. i have had the best in fullest life that anybody could possibly have. asi look at this challenge -- with joy -- with happiness, and with gratitude. gratitude that i have had the opportunity to serve this country a little bit. brian: have you noticed any change in the way people are approaching you sense you've dealt with this latest? mccain: yes. it has been more sympathetic. i'm sure some of them are glad i m going. [laughter] senator mccain: no, look, people told me when i gave a speech the other night and 100 senators were in their seats that that was the first time that has ever

happened. so, there has been an incredible of friendship. i mean, unbelievable. it moves me to tears. brian: what is your treatment now? senator mccain: i receive radiation and chemotherapy. i've had it done twice and now i am waiting for an mri. i want to tell you, nobody expected me to the energy level and i do not have any problems sleeping. i do not have any problem eating. i am exercising all the time, i am in fine shape. let's see what happens. i have full them before. -- i have full them efore -- fooled them before.

[chuckling] brian: what was the impact of the vietnam war? afterwards, the chief came and said senators, you have a hollow army. becausetary was eroded of drugs, anti-war, the inequities of the draft. we were in bad shape. fortunately then, if i may be a bit parochial, there was a commitment to rebuild our military and we did. it is good now. we have a lot of problems right now, but the fact is, it is not the morale issue. listen, we had the marine company officers that were discharging half of their company because they were not performing. they were given the authority, just throw them out if they are not any good. and, there was a famous marine

-- the mediaaid guy came up to him and said, look, you have all these guys you are throwing of the marine corps, what will be left. he said, to that guy of their? he is my driver. if he and i were the only two left in the marine corps, if that's what it takes, i am going to fix it. so, it was a very big problem or challenge to rebuild our military after what happened after the vietnam conflict. youenator mccain, thank your time. we are livehursday, in topeka, kansas, for the next up on the c-span bus 50-q are. our guest will be jeff callier starting at 8:45 eastern. hello, this is lowest.

as i could director with the texas book festival. we're super excited to have the book festival november 4 in five in and around the state capitol in downtown austin. we will be welcoming over 300 authors of over 150 panels. we are expecting a huge turnout of 50,000 on saturday and sunday. announcer: join the texas book festival november 4 and five on c-span two. for more information, visit our .ebsite at booktv.org >> earlier today, leon panetta called on the trump administration to lower the volume of rhetoric on north korea. he made the comments with lawmakers and former intelligence officials. one hour.just shy of