mr. speaker, this has to stop. there are those who say wait until the next election. i am not one of them. i believe that the remedy for this kind of behavior and the impact it's having on society is impeachment. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the chair declares the house in recess until noon today. senator cory gardner of colorado currently doing the questioning.

senator compareder in: the united states was the last -- senator gardner: the united states was the last standing. it was hurting our interest. it was hurting the ability of this elected government to have a good start in addressing the problems that had been ignored by 50 years of military authoritarian repressive rule. it does not mean burma had reached perfection. mr. murphy: we knew this would be bumpy. we knew there would be challenges. we had to look at the tools available to us to encourage behavior change and proper actions. proper actions are required by all in the international community, including china. we would hope as a member of the security council china could join us in recognizing the military's disproportionate response has exacerbated these problems, and china needs to work with others on the security council to understand that the instability that's being created could affect the neighborhood, including china's own interest. senator gardner: has china

publicly condemned the military in burma? mr. murphy: i don't think we have seen that in regards to the burmese military. we are looking for a better posture on their part. senator gardner: thank you. senator she -- shaheen. senator shaheen: thank you. you are hearing the frustration from my colleagues on this committee about the inability to better effect the outcome what's happening in burma. i understand there have been allegations of sexual violence, of rape, of other actions rohingya ly targeting women. can you tell me if we have raised those specific concerns of gender-specific violence with the burmese government? >> yes, senator. we share your concerns. the reports primarily coming om refugees, very incredible

n.g.o.'s would include sexual violence, violence against women and children. mr. murphy: these are particularly vulnerable populations within a larger vulnerable population within the rohingya. we have addressed this with all the stakeholders. this is not a money lithic overnment that has full -- monolithic government that has full -- senator shaheen: i understand that. mr. murphy: we have had discussions with the commander in chief of forces. we have expressed our concerns with other stakeholders including local populations, local leaders in the state and we have pointed out these kind of abuses, this kind of displacement threatens the transition to democracy, creates a much bigger risk for the attraction of international terrorism and could set burma back. so it's in the country's interest, not only to protect

local populations but to pay a path forward that's in the betterment of all 55 million people. senator shaheen: i appreciate that. unless you have a different response, ambassador storella, i will go on. mr. storella: i will say our ambassador herself met with victims of gender-based violence so she could hear their testimony. we are providing assistance to thousands of people who have been victims of that violence. thank you. senator shaheen: thank you. i do appreciate it. this week senator isakson and i will reintroduce the violence against women act and it speaks to the importance of this legislation as we address the crimes that are unfortunately not happening here with the rohingya but in other places around the world. i understand that there are an estimated 69,000 pregnant rohingya refugee women in bangladesh. i am not sure that number is

correct, but the main assistance they are getting is certainly pa and i support that. i support the efforts they make around the world to help pregnant women and women -- vulnerable women who are in need of pre and postnatal care. i guess, ambassador storella, can you tell me if the administration supports unfpa's efforts here and how we do that? mr. storella: senator shaheen, the united states does support efforts for women who are particularly vulnerable. we are working with a number of different agencies to ensure there are things like ender-appropriate latreens available. senator shaheen: but we are not supporting the efforts of

unfpa, is that correct? mr. storella: the united states is not. senator shaheen: that's unfortunate because there are many women in need of that help. i don't know if any of you can answer this question but i do know i have heard from people who have in new hampshire and other places who have expressed oncern about why more have not spoken out more forcefully on this circumstance. mr. murphy, what is your assess hement? why sheant she spoken out more forcefully and what happened to that power sharing arrangement if she did? mr. murphy: my parents are residents in new hampshire and ask me the same question. aung san suu or

kyi. we are seeing widespread racism directly at the rohingya. there are many that suffered rom racism inside the state. from hnic have suffered essentially directed discrimination. very complicated environment. we'd like to see more champions, more vocal people for the rohingya and other repressed populations. speaking on behalf of the hingya is a very dangerous situation for people in burma. we need broader human dignity and respect for each other. our particular message is not just to the government. also to the armed forces. local ethnic leaders but also the broad members of the burmese nation. reflect on your own suffering. your own voyage to overcome

authoritarian rule and think about your fellow human beings. the terrible treatment of the rohingya is a real achilles' heel for this country and for their transition. we need a broad public campaign for all burmese to understand they are together. rohingya are part fert fabric. they need to have basic human rights and that's a broad message and we're looking not just for a singular champion but for all burmese to understand human dignity is a real important aspect to this crisis. senator shaheen: i think that's very well said. what kind of message -- could i just ask one more question? senator gardner: as long as you don't have limb answer it. senator shaheen: it's a rhetorical statement. what kind of a message does it send to burmese leadership, military and civilian, when in the united states of america we have a travel ban on

muslim-majority countries, members coming into this country? thank you, mr. chairman. senator gardner: thank you. thank you very much. senator reisch. senator reisch: thank you for your service. i think what you are seeing here today are some considerable frustration and outrage among members of this committee. there is no difference in our feeling, all of the committee, in that regard. we all share this flues tration. we all share -- we all share this frustration. we all share this outrage. i want to thank you for speaking with the moral clarity that you have spoken with here today. i appreciate that you don't communicate directly with the president. tell him what he should say or shouldn't. some people have tried that and not successfully i have noticed. at the state department you peak with the full force and effect of the united states foreign policy. we appreciate that. our job, of course, in this

committee is to help craft foreign policy and that will be done i'm sure as we move forward through resolutions or statutes that address this problem. i think today you've been very clear in assessing how difficult this is to do. ne of the things i find that shows the difficult nature of this -- these are my words, not yours -- but it seems like you're facing an entire population, country that possesses a prejudice that's not appropriate, obviously, and it's manifesting itself in some very bad things. now, i don't know how you address that. certainly sanctions are one way to do that, but prejudice is not easily overcome and frankly i don't know that sanctions are something are going to convince people they should be thinking

differently than what they are. in any event, i'd like to hear each of you address briefly if you would this issue that we're dealing with, not an individual, which we frequently are in some countries, not even just the military as we are in some countries, but really the civilian government plus the population of the country that's really turning a blind eye towards this. how do we -- do you have suggestions for change in that conduct? mr. murphy, let's start with you and work our way down. . mip very much appreciate your -- moich very much appreciate your perspectives. i want to share with you my frustration doesn't begin with this cry sifments it began 20 yearsing a when i first visited there and have worked on and off over the course of my career over the particular challenge of the repressed rohingya opulation.

it's been a long-standing problem. frustration doesn't translate to action. we need to change the behavior. we have identified something new in the current elected government environment and that is a willingness to try and tackle the underlying challenges in the state. a path to citizenship. the development for all of the underdeveloped population that is reside there. i want to revisit that commission. it's in small measure that this commission was formed under the leadership of the former u.n. secretary-general and came up with 88 very specific recommendations. the new government has embraced them. we now need to see implementation. we need other stakeholders to support those recommendations, including the armed forces, local leaders. those paths forward include cooperation and coordination with bangladesh. development of access to basic

government service that is have been lacking. most importantly, a path to citizenship. so this disenfranchised population has a means to participate and gain from the benefits that other citizenship -- citizens enjoy. it's not going to be easy. these recommendations are beth short-term and long term. but -- both short term and long term. we have a government that is willing to do something that other regimes have ignored. that does not mean this government has taken all the right steps. we're calling on the government to do all it can to end the violence, stop the hate speech, pave a path forward for return of repratt ated -- repatriated refugees and find way toward national peace. this government has also convened a conference which has been unprecedented since the 1940's, bringing together all representatives throughout the country to pave a path forward and ending conflict. as we talk about conflict today in rekind state, there is

ongoing conflict in the north. burma's been at war with itself nonstop for over 70 years. and this government is trying to achieve some peace. weigh need to work with those stakeholders who see a better way. at the same time we talked about targeted sanctions and measures those not with the program. we have to have a measured balanced approach. senator risch: my time is up. i apologize. i really wanted to hear both your perspectives. i would just say thank you again for your service. i know how disheartening this is as we listen to these facts. don't give up. represent us as you have and continue with development of policy that will do the best we can to do something about this, thank you, mr. chairman. chairman corker: senator kaine. senator kaine: this is an important hearing. i miss add little bit of your opening statements and i apologize, but i just pick up on some rhett range language i want

to come back on. i know the state department under way with an analysis to determine whether what's happening in burma's ethnic cleansing. just for the record the french president at the end of september said what was happening to the rohingya constituted genocide and we must condemn ethnic pure fay fi case is under way and act. and the turkish president also labeled the genocide. would urge with dispatch us determining what we think it is and labeling it. you talk, i think it was mr. murphy, i heard you use the word, there's vigilante action. -- i think of vigil lanty vigilante action i think of rogue individuals. not the government. this is clear this isn't just vigil lanties or prejudice, but there is official actors involved, including the military, in ways that i think are not deniable. that's not the same as vigilante action to my understanding of the term.

you also condemned the military's disproportionate response. i think that's a disproportionate response to the attack on burmese military. i don't really view the role of the military, the burmese military in the accounts i have read as being a responder. i think that they have been a participant and often an initiator many of the attacks on the rohingya. i think if we want to be careful about lang a wadge like ethnic cleansing and genocide, we ought to be careful about t i think we also need to be careful about phrases like the military is a responder or there's vigilante action. i think all the evidence would suggest it has much more an official sanction and prim ture -- prima ture than that and that's the basis of the work under way in the state department to determine how to label it. i want to ask questions about bangladesh. i'm the ranking member with senator risch on the subcommittee over the region of the world that includes bangladesh. these refugees are largely going to bangladesh which has its own

set of challenges. could you tell the committee how the flow of refugees into bangladesh is affecting that country? are there things we can do to help them deal with the refugees? mr. murphy: senator kaine, the crush of refugees is unmanageable. for a conindustry strapped for resources, limited infrastructure, and also facing difficult weather, it's nearly impossible. ambassador storella: i think bangladesh has done a great job by opening its borders and the international community to permit opportunities to assist the people there. one of the most important things that bangladesh has done is to work with the unhcr to undertake a registration of those arriving. i spoke with someone from bangladesh yesterday, he said some 260,000 refugees have been registered. 13,000 are being registered per day.

senator kaine: there's been 600,000 that have fled -- ambassador storella: 603,000. these registrations are important because they provide protections themselves and the basis for the subsequent repatriation when conditions permit. i think bangladesh has demonstrate add great deal of patience and working with the authorities. there was a meeting today which the home affairs minister is working -- of bangladesh is working with the burmese to pave the way for eevepk eventual returns. senator kaine: that 603,000, i have heard that an estimate. that's about half the total of burma, islation that ackzphrat ambassador storella: we do not know the exact population, but believe the 00,000 plus the number already in bangladesh, which brings the total to about a million s. more than half of the population. senator kaine: from the usaid i'mpective, could you offer

sorry ms. somvongsiri. ms. somvongsiri: usaid aid works closely with the p.r.m. in bangladesh and agree with ambassador storella's assessments in terms of the government generosity in an already impoppished country. the ability to take in this massive, massive influx. our program through food for peace there is supplementing efforts in terms of providing much needed food assistance, nutrition, and a lot of interest to give you the sense of the challenges to be able to do the food assistance. some of the work is toward building logistics likes roads to have deliverry into the very confined area. one other thing i'll mention is we do have a robust development assistance program in bangladesh and we're looking how to reshape that to help affected communities that are there.

senator kaine: aim not going to ask another question but probably do questions for the record to flesh out the extent of activities we're doing to help bangladesh and other things we're doing. chairman corker: thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman, ranking member, for holing this important hearing and winces for focusing today on the appalling treatment of burma's muslim and ethnic minority, the rohingya. i'm grateful to all the members of this committee on both sides who take concrete steps to address this cry sifments in july, start tillis and i, co-chairs of the human rights caucus, held a briefing about the displacement of the rohingya. at that point relatively early in this crisis, there is more than 6 hundred,000 who fled burma because of the military's brutality. senator coons: there's been a great deal of great whether the state counselor, aung san suu kyi, by her silence is contributing to this violence. on september 17, he one of her

fell nobel lawyer yeats, archbishop desmond tutu, wrote a moving letter which he said, quote, if the political price of your ascension to the highest office in myanmar is your silence, the price is surely too steep. a country not willing to protect the dignity of all people is not free. it is the congress as a symbol of righteousness to led the country. i agree with him. i hope the united states will continue to speak out, stand up for human rights, and call for policies and action that is empower and protect the rohingya. ambassador, first to you. you answered questions from senator kaine about what's happening on the ground in bangladesh. i would be interested in whether you foresee the rohingya being able to return to burma. and what steps you are taking to urge the burmese government to recognize and protect them upon their return. whether they will get documentation of citizenship or

residency, and what you believe the long-term plan is both in bangladesh and in burma for their safe treatment and care while refugees and their return to the nation of origin of burma. ambassador storella: senator coons, thank you very much for focusing on a critical question. the very first thing we must under all circumstances insist returns must be the goal and must be voltaire rain the government of burma must provide for the security of returning refugees. we have seen some elements of progress despite an other wise dismal scenario. initially, as you know, the government of burma said they would not permit any funds to go to any kind of assistance organization, whatsoever, they denied many of the things that everyone knew was going on. we insisted that those funds would not go to the government, that they would go to the human tearian organizations by the red cross. that's been permitted. the red cross has limited

access, which is very important, because it also shines a light on what's going on there. over time we have seen that statements of state counselor aung san suu kyi have evolve. in her statement of october 12 she outlined that the goals were repatriation, resettlement, and development. that's in the right direction. we need to keep pushing on that. as i already mentioned in response to the question by senator kaine, we as an international community have to continue supporting bangladesh to make it possible for those returns to take place. i have worked on returns in other countries, including 360,000 cambodians who returned to cambodia. this is going to require a lot of work at a political level to make it possible. but also requires working with the key institution that is will be able to monitor and set the conditions to ensure that those returns actually can be voluntary, so there is a path. i think we have to just keep pushing down that path and not give up.

thank you. senator coons: i'm interested also in hearing as i might about the role religion has played in this kycies and what contribution usaid's conflict mitigation efforts might make to keep religious tension from further exacerbating this conflict. i think senator shaheen asked a relevant question, what impact it has on the world response and how our responses seen at a time when there is repeat litigation in our courts and repeat assertion by our president that we need to have a ban on o those who might come to our country from majority muslim countries. ms. somvongsiri: thank you, senator coons, for that important question. part of our works in not only northern rakhine state and elsewhere is the focus specifically on this issue of building tolerance, ethnic and religious tolerance and promoting that. this is part of senator risch's question as well.

we do that by building dialogue with local groups. we have found civil society groups who are more moderate in their views but don't have the space to speak out in terms of religious tolerance, in terms of community efforts. our role is to create space for that, strengthen those civil society organizations and link them tokt together. many moderates don't feel safe doing that right now. that is a critical issue. we're happy to provide more information to you on that and what our programs are doing to support that. chairman corker: senator markey. senator markey: thank you mr. chairman, very much. it's a very important hearing. absolutely crisis that has many in the rohingya community who have arrived in bangladesh following these clearance operations that soldiers entered their villages

and killed civilians, raped women and girls, then burned down the entire village, international meddal teams treating the rohingya in these camps report that some people bear gunshot wounds consistent with being shot from behind. some women and girls have injuries consistent with sexual assault. it is clear the military bears the spot for these crimes, even the perpetrators are lower levels or unknown. burma's commander in chief senior general minn is responsible for the systematic crimes. why has the administration been reluctant to add general minn to the specially designated nationals and block persons ist? >> thank you, senator. there is no reason to discount the credible reporting that such abuses have taken place. it's for that reason we have

announced mesh sure at the state department on behalf of the administration to pursue accountability. mr. murphy: accountability will apply to all individuals and tits responsible for perpetuating the violence and these abuses. that applies to the armed forces predominantly, but in answer to a previous question or comment from senator kaine, there are other actors. there are the rohingya militants who conducted attacks on august 25 and subsequently have attacked fellow citizens. there are local civilians who have taken actions into their own hands, sometimes in concert with the security force, sometimes as when i was in rahkine state a few weeks ago, that particular circumstance involved attacking a red cross shipment. indeed security forces helped support that attack. that was a welcome sign. but there are vigilantes who are part of the equation.

all of the military leadership is subject to our restrictions for travel to the united states. subject 20 our restrictions -- to our restrictions for any assistance. that applies to the general as well. senator markey: have you yet imposed a travel ban on general minn being able to visit the united states? have you imposed that yet? mr. murphy: senator, there is an existing travel ban as a result of the rank and position. that remains in force. we will upped no circumstances right now pursue any waiver for his ability to travel to the united states or gain assistance from the united states. senator markey: what other steps would you recommend that we take given in the very near past we were as a government talking about enhanced military cooperation with burma?

that was a signal being sent to these people that obviously would have given them some assurance that they would not have to be concerned about any of their actions. how has that been communicated to them? that is, how has the fact that my amendment working with with -- other members was successful in having that language struck from the legislation as it was moving through a couple months ago. what was the interpretation that they made of that action legislatively? mr. murphy: senator, the reality is that our military to military relationship with burma is not normal and has not been for many, many decades. there are many existing restrictions. what we have communicated to the military in relation to the current crisis is that their path to normalization is

obstructed by their failure to protect local populations. there is a conundrum here. we have to acknowledge t we hear this even from government figures inside burma. the armed forces has been isolated for the better part of half a century and not exposed to international standards, norms, and regulations. there is an argument that they need more exposure to understand how to behave properly, how to be a professional military forces, focused on national defense and not abusing its own people. unfortunately, that's going to be for another day. under the current circumstances, we're not exploring engagement or enhancing assistance or contact with the military or facilitating any travel. that's a clear message that they have failed to protect local populations and have contributed -- senator markey: you agree with that message? mr. murphy: absolutely. i delivered that message directly. senator markey: the response is? mr. murphy: look, i think part of the problem here is a failure

in burma among many stakeholders to recognize what's taking place. massive displacement, failure to protect citizens and residents of the country. that's part of our messaging. they need to see what they have done and what the results and repercussions are. i think the message that may resonate the most is that their actions create a greater risk for international terrorism. they think they have a terrorism problem now. by virtue of the kind of attack that is took place on august 25, and last year in 2016, which also created population displacement. our message is that's not a real international terrorism problem. the kind of problem that could visit burmese territory is a real significant challenge they won't be equipped to handle. they are exacerbating that risk. senator markey: it remind me very much of el salvador in the 80's where we were giving money to the government and the government had these generals who were the leaders of the death squads. even as they were helping them

they were still indifferent to that abuse and how the money would be used. this is the big issue we have to really press harder on in terms of their military and how they are using the resources they have. thank you. >> very much appreciate your testimony. i have a question and we have some closing comments here. i want to thank everybody for participating. i know senator merkel, thank you for the trip you are getting ready to take to the area. obviously this is all very, if you will, damning to the leadership of burma. each of you have said that clearly in the questions that have been asked have all been in that direction. were aung san suu kyi here, what would she say in defense of what's been happening in her own country? mr. murphy: senator, i think it's a fair question but

honestly i can't speak for aung san suu kyi. i can relate to you in our conversations with her secretary tillerson has spoken with her as well. we have tried to impress upon her the need to take key actions. i think we have also recognized that it is a complicated environment. by describing the complexities, that doesn't absolve the government of its responsibility. there are measures the government has taken which i think she would point to that we need to support. that's hard to describe in this environment when there is such a crisis under way that behind the scenes there is a government that is elected representing the people and is taking unprecedented actions. a clear departure from authoritarian military rule we don't want to behave now in a way that reverts burma back to military rule. that would not be in the interest of the rohingya population and others t wouldn't be in the u.s. interests. what we do need to do is ep courage the kind of actions they are taking now to make a better

path for the rohingya. we need other stakeholders in the country to support those actions. primarily the armed forces. hasten to point out inside ra khine state the ethnic leader need to lower the hate speech, real thies they need to sharet space together. they need to benefit from better treatment and development and international assistance which has been the course of action to date. all international o.s are providing assistance to all vulnerable populations. primarily rohingya, ethnic rakhine and others. i think, senator, fundamentally the bottom line is we want to help burma succeed. this is an enormous crisis that threatens the transition, could revert burma backwards in the wrong direction. it's a challenge. we need to see bert leadership. all stakeholders to contribute to that process. chairman corker: thank you. senator cardin. senator cardin: i wanted to thank the wins for their efforts

here and for what they are doing in representing our country. i do want to make a couple comments. goast has a responsibility. the responsibility of all parties, when you assume government responsibility, you have to show leadership and we have not seen that from the burmese government. number two, in regards to return -- ambassador storella, make this comment. villages have been returned down and it will be difficult to see where are you returning to. if you return to a situation where you'll be in a dea tension camp, that may not be an acceptable safety issue and permanency how long that lasts. i urge us to be very careful. we want the people to be able to return to their communities, but we have to realize it's not only the ethnic problems, we also have physical problems and safety problems on the return. lastly, secretary murphy, i want to emphasize, i heard this

argument, many many times about we don't want to impose sanction that is could hurt the people we're trying to help. that's like chalk on a chalkboard. i heard that argument about hurting the jews and the soviet union and we imposed sanctions and jews are better off because we did impose sanctions. i heard that about the blacks in south africa, we should engage rather than try to use economic pressure. i heard that about iran, we shouldn't apply pressures against iran. we should engage. we were able to engage iran because we imposed sanctions. i urge us to understand that sanctions are much preferred than using military. and many cases they have allowed us to get results without the use of our military. and we shouldn't be shy in using america's economic strength. chairman corker: senator, if i'm allowed to ask a question. >> two things i'm very concerned about, secretary murphy, one is that in regard to our military

contacts with burma, we're currently hosting folks from the military in comprehensive security response, transitional security cooperation, advanced security cooperation, so we do have military officers from burma. i think we have to ask ourselves the question, the military organized the burden of proofing of nearly 300 villages. often the villages surrounded by a platoon, set fire, and shoot people as they flee. i think we need to think about all the levers we have to pressure the military. they are really in charge. we can talk about civilian side of burma, but it is the military that runs things, which is part of the reason that some folks

say we should be careful about criticizing aung san suu kyi because she doesn't have that much power. the military pass has the power. let's look and use those levers. twice you used the term vigilantes, which is the official excuse. a few people acting raabe comely on their own do not surround hundreds of villages and shoot people in a coordinated action. i think use of that term gives cover to the militarier in a way that's totally unacceptable. chairman corker: thank you very much for your testimony and service to the country. we're going to leave the record open until the close of business thursday. if you could answer them fairly promptly we would appreciate it. again, we appreciate very much you being here. i know this committee will want to -- will stay on top of this. we look forward to merkley's report when he's back. with that, the meeting is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017]

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a a senator corker there just leaving the room. he'll be atepping the weekly party lunch soon which president trump will also be attending today. the two of them publicly criticizing each other. we'll bring you updates after their party lunches which are expected to focus on tax reform. and this hearing on u.s. policy toward burma including the crisis with the rohingya minority will be available in

its entirety online at c-span.org. just search our video library. secretary of state rex tillerson is expected to get recommendation this is week on whether to declare the crisis there a genocide. we'll keep you updated on the c-span networks. now we'll take a look at some of the latest dealing with the current health care law in the united states. this is from today's "washington journal." >> washington journal . host: our first guest of the morning is a democrat from california who also served as a medical doctor. he is your to talk about, among other things, health care. good morning. guest: good morning. side,on the senate democrats are trying to stabilize obamacare. is it something you can agree with going forward on the house side? guest: it is a step in the right direction. i would like to see other things, but that is what a compromise means. as it stands right now, i am looking forward to ng