issues and i think you hear my optimism about getting to a place.ent you can start to see it and i think we will see it. much.ank you so >> thank you. plause] [applause] >> several members of congress virgin islands today to assess the way forward n recovery from hurricane maria. members plan to visit puerto rico. at-large representative tweeted, at the u.s. virgin roundtable working ection and representative of state and gop leader kevin mare hoyer y and congressman sending his own tweets saying they are surveying damage and

relief for our fellow americans. washington journey spent the entire program on the government's role in enforcing laws that make it illegal to harass an individual in the work place. it on-line h all of at c-span.org. here's part of that discussion. " continues. l joining us is the commissioner of the equal employment opportunity commission here to help us about our conversation about sexual-harassment and the work place. eeoc and how does this agency play a role in preventing sexual hara >> the eoc the eeoc was created in the 1964 civil rights act. an independent agency to enforce on discrimination in

the workplace based on sex grade one of the prohibited acts is to sexually harass someone. is takewhat we do charge when someone has experienced harassment, we investigate, we try to settle them. we have helped thousands of women get harassment to stop in their workplace, often getting money damages even before they have to go to court. the other role we have is outreach and education. we are trying to stop harassment before it happens. we do training and other things along those lines. host: what is sexual-harassment? how do you define it? guest: there are two definitions. one is illegal sexual harassment and that is harassment that is severe, like physical touching, or what is called pervasive, it

happens continuously. that is what you need to get to the level of illegal harassment. from the eeoc perspective, we want to stop harassment before it becomes illegal under the law. that means stopping any unwelcome sexual conduct. that is asking for sexual favors or pushing for sexist,avors as well as grading comments. comments.ng host: does the harasser have to be a supervisor? guest: there are stricter rules on the employer if the harassment is a supervisor, but a harasser can be a coworker, and that has to stop or the employer will be reliable, the

harasser can be a client and if the employer knows about it that has to stop. a harasser can be anyone in the workplace and if you are experiencing unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature or of a sexist nature, you should be able to get your employer to stop it. in an ideal world you should really get your employer to stop it. host: we are talking about just the federal workplace -- the eeoc covers the private workplace as well. guest: yes. we were created to implement the 1964 civil rights act. that was the major civil rights act in this country saying to private employers, any employer with 15 or more employees, you may not discriminate waste on harass an individual in the work

in cases -- but that is still the tip of the iceberg. there is something new that we are doing. we are trying to get out to employers and say we will work with you to stop this bad behavior from happening before it becomes illegal. two weeks ago we rolled out a new type of training, respectful workplace is training for employees and supervisors to teach people how to be respectful in the workplace, to teach supervisors how to deal with the complaint. most supervisors, if someone comes forward and says, john is sexually harassing me, john is asking me for a date and i've told him no and he keeps coming on to me, have training so that supervisor takes that complaint as a gift.

instead of saying i do not want to start my day with this complaint, instead to teach that supervisor to say thank you for coming forward and being brave enough to come forward and here's what i'm going to do to deal with that. most supervisors are not going to know how to do that unless they are trained. in the new training we just rolled out is designed to treat that. host: our phone lines are lighting up. we have divided the lines by women and men great dial in on your lines. we want to know what you think. dblum, the usael today has the headline "the weinstein affect." 'sw many cases does the eeoc the related to sexual harassment each year and has the number gone up in recent weeks? guest: it takes a while for

charges to come in so i cannot say whether charges have come up. i can tell you there is been a four fold increase in our web traffic on the issue of sexual harassment. people are looking for information. we get about 12,000 charges a harassment,based the reality is that most people do not ever even bring the legal charge. most people stay silent. peopleearch shows 15% of will openly file a legal charge. our number is not at all the large number that is out there. a statistic that was sobering to with myi worked republican colleagues on a study of workplace harassment, that

report is on our website as well, it turns out that about 70% of people who experienced harassment in the workplace never tell anybody in the workplace -- they tell their friends and family, but they never complain, not to their supervisor or hr. most people stay silent and they are staying silent because they are afraid of what will happen to them if they come forward with their complaint. they know that complaint is not going to be treated as a gift, thank you for coming forward. we have to change that culture. host: do you think it is changing with the weinstein affect? this is an abc/washington post poll that was just taken. a sharp increase in americans who say sexual harassment is a serious problem. in 2011, 40 7% said it was a serious problem. now, 64%. guest: people of asked me

whether i think this is a tipping point. i say we need two tipping points. the first tipping point is in naming the problem. hashtag has been so important. tipping point is speaking out. the second tipping point has to be change. actual change that employers make in their workplaces so women and men -- 16% of our charges come from men -- so people feel safe and coming out. that is the second tipping point. i am hopeful we are getting there. the first tipping point will bring us to the second. it has to be sustained and it has to be because employers step action, reachegic

out to the eeoc as well as other partners, to actually make a change. host: will have a conversation "ere on the "washington journal for the next few hours. she had the nail right on the head. that pushed me right out of the workplace because i was afraid the men would continue to do what they were doing to me. it got to the point where i was menafraid to even work with because i knew the kind of things they were doing and they were not getting in trouble for. it made it where even if i told, it would still see my fault because i was looking too pretty that day. maybe i was walking a different way.

i never could figure out why they always did that to me. it got me to a point where i was too afraid to even venture into an opportunity that involved a man. host: when was this happening, what years? caller: up until maybe last year? last year was the last straw, his privateulled part out directly in front of me. it was so creepy that all i could do was grabbed my stuff and leave and i never went back because it creeped me out so bad. i am too old to keep going through this. it has been happening all through my 20's, 30's, 40's, here i am 50 years old, they are still doing it. i cannot take it anymore. keep -- if ich to

want to work, i have to deal with the creepiness of a man. like, listen, you could find something with all women. that is a hard job to find. you're never going to find that. mostly men are in every position. a woman is not safe. it is not of the woman to say i do not trust this guy, he is making me uncomfortable. you do not do that. you bow out gracefully. guest: this is precisely the story we do not want to have our daughters and granddaughters having to deal with. we want to stop it now for everybody, whether you're 50, 40, 30, 20, or 15. the survey shows that most women do not report -- why not?

because of fear. the first fears they will not be believed, it will be trivialized, they will say what were you doing, let's talk about your part in this. fear of being blamed. ,hen fear of nothing happening which is clearly what has happened in so many work places. third, even if something does happen, you are lucky to be in a place with a stop the harassment, fear of retaliation, professional or social. how do we stop this fear, we have this story not happen? the employer, the person who is running that business has to realize that it is costly to the business cannot find out if harassment is happening and to stop it. the one cost that businesses often think about is if i get

sued, i will have to spend money. that is true. are in direct financial causes that are happening to businesses across this country every day. those are the costs on workplace productivity and health of the target of the harassment, someone who is seeing the target and had been working at to this have feltd also uncomfortable. job turnover -- people leave, if they can, economically. businesseser level, are losing good people to their competitors at the level they are not as caring as much as their people, it still affects them if someone gets up and leaves and they have to hire someone else. there is a huge human, moral, and financial cost to employers not taking proactive steps to finding out what is going on and stopping it. we have to stop it.

morning.hy, good caller: thank you so much for having me on the show. i'm very nervous to share my experience, but it has been helpful to hear other women talk about their experiences. i had extreme sexual harassment experience in 1996 when i worked for a large chemical company. out on hisinvited me last day and said there were other people that were going to be there. there were not, it was just him and i. he proceeded to drug my drink in a restaurant and give me against my will for about a day and a half. i did not report it because i blocked it out for almost five years. then i finally did work up the nerve to file a police report, did not get anywhere.

at one point, i looked them up online and she had some kind of tracking software where he turned around and facebook friend in me out of sarcasm and a type of bullying. i wanted to share was that even though i did not get anywhere legally, it put me on a rocky road where it took a lot of effort on my part but i took my experience and turned it around and made myself strong and i'm now an environmentalist, i'm a political activist and i do the best i can every day to always improve and always learn and now i am sharing and it took toong time, but thank you you, your show, and everyone else who is sharing. host: thank you for calling in this morning. what about statutes of limitations? in the employment

context, there is a shorter statute of limitations. report, you can file and they should be able to do things even years later. youn employment setting, have a little less than one year from the time the harassment happened to maintain your legal right. 300 days in most states. within that amount of time you have to come to us. if for asthma and has been happening for a long time, the only thing that has to happen within 300 days is the last incident of harassment. that is what matters legally. employers,ess, the they should want to know about something that happened five years ago. not in terms of the legal liability, in terms of the economic smartness of trying to stop it.

surveys show that the impact on your workforce's health and productivity is huge -- millions of dollars. employers have to realize that even if they do not have a daily ship complaints, they need to remember that 70% of people are not even complaining. if they want to know what is going on in their workplace, they have to do an anonymous survey of their employees. they have to send out an -- send out a survey that says not have you experienced sexual harassment. they have to send a survey that and say or 12 behaviors have you experienced any of these behaviors? academics have figured out these surveys. that would let an employer know what is happening and can you

imagine the impact on a workforce if they get a survey anonymously, please fill out whether this has happened to you because the leadership of this company cares about making it not happen. the employer will get information and the employer will be sending a message -- enough. we are not going to tolerate this. host: a washington post/abc poll asked this question about two women, if they have at her -- if they have ever received unwanted sexual advances from a man. than half site unwanted sexual advances, including three in 10 from a coworker. when you investigate claims, do you talk to the harasser? guest: yes. when someone files a charge, one of the first things we do in many cases is offer free

mediation for the employer to andent, the charging party, it could be that as the first time the employer knows about it and can deal with it through the mediation we offer. we will also investigate. investigation means you call witnesses, you start with the employer, the supervisor, we will interview the alleged harasser, what we do is determine whether we think there is reasonable cause to believe discrimination happened. we're not making a final judgment, we are saying we think discrimination happened. if we say we think discrimination happened, we issue a finding of reasonable cause and then we have a more formal settlement procedure. in one year, we got $40 million in damages for people who had filed charges, just an informal

settlement. takeat settlement does not , if the employer does not settle, then the employees allowed to go to court and continue this in court. we at the eeoc can also bring cases in court. we have brought many cases. we do not have enough resources to do what congress has told us we have to do. congress tells us what to do, does not always give us enough money to do it. we help as many people as we can. often people come through our doors and go from us to court. host: we are talking with commissioner feldblum of the equal opportunity employment commission. al in wisconsin, good morning.

i think women are being subjected to way too much harassment in the workplace. i'm intimately knowledgeable about the situation. and i affected my family am sorry to say this, the eeoc is a paper tiger because my other half was subjected to over 20 years of stuff like this and it is not being resolved. i am passionate about this. i sympathize with every poor woman that is calling and looking for help and assistance and god bless you, please help them. please stop this. please, gentlemen, wake up and act like gentlemen. treat your other half for your fairer sex as an equal because we all deserve fairness that we should give, we should receive.

i am sorry to say i do not like the song the beatles did years ago, woman is just a derogatory term. men that feel that way are immature babies. commissioner, when you talk to these alleged harasser's, males, what do they tell you, why do they harass? guest: i am so glad that al noted -- why would not call the -- while i would not call the eeoc a paper tiger, we would be a stronger tiger with more money. part of what we are trying to do help everywe cannot woman and man who comes to us, that is why we try to invest money up front so we can stop this from happening. that is why we rolled out this new training. to your question about what our

people say -- what do people say? often they just deny it. the investigation turns out that it is true and the action is taken against them. sometimes they do not feel like what they did was wrong. this goes back to training. one of the things we say about training is it is not designed to change your mind, it is designed for you to keep your job. what i mean is, in a two our training, we are not going to convince some guys that it is bad to say to someone every day that you look sexy. -- they my life look say my wife loves it when i say that. you can believe whatever you want, that when you walk into this workplace, these are the rules. to not focus on changing beliefs, you focus on changing behavior.

it is clear to any man in a workplace, here are the behaviors that are not ok. any policy, any procedure, none of it will work unless there is accountability. that if theyo see act in ways they have been told not to act, there will be consequences. if the guy who had pulled out is the next day was fired, i think that might have affected other people down the line. cases, just hypothetical i cannot comment on any particular case, but there has to be accountability. host: let's hear from mary and rockville, maryland. caller: i am having a bad ptsd attack right now trade i have suffered nightmarish harassment my entire life because i grew up horrifically disfigured by my

antiabortion mother. i have had horrendous experiences in the workplace, two i wanted to mention. clarence thomas deny me equal pay at the eeoc because he was disgusted by the scars on my faith. he told that to a male colleague after he kicked me out of his office. i had a clear cut open and shut unequal pay case but he would not take it because he cannot stand my looks. warn all the people of the washington, d.c. area about horrific illegal discrimination and harassment that goes on at times"shington newspaper. body shamedically by several people there, men and women because i am disfigured. even though i was doing a great job and i saved the paper many times from embarrassing mistakes

int would've gone to press the production department and in the legal advertising department. in the legal advertising department, they kept protecting this bill cosby type person who thought he was entitled to have sex with all the attractive women who worked there and he was nasty to women like me who did not meet his standards. even there he told me i was not attractive, he demanded sex in front of other people and i refused and he demanded money. he said i owed him money for putting up with my ugly face. i had a lot of witnesses, i was openly insulted by our trump-like boss. i complained to hr and the hr director admitted she was trying to get me fired and indicated it was because she was disgusted with my looks.

guns.een threatened with complained about the company, they were fired. he was around -- he was allowed to drink on the job, allowed to look at pornography on his computer. -- our bossnly openly bragged about his own adultery. he said he was going to hire the next person based on her youth and beauty. he never stopped any of the male colleagues from insulting me. because igally fired informed another female coworker whose work was about to double because i was being suspended to cover up for the drinking on the job by the company cosby. host: let me ask the commissioner, these are allegations.

buys to thisnd collar, to others who might be a similar work place -- what do andadvise to this collar others who might be in a similar workplace? guest: harassment happens on all basis is, not just on sex. this problem of the superstar harasser. that is the person who the company values highly, who brings in a lot of money and sales and they make the wrong cost-benefit analysis -- they decide we have these complaints against this guy, but it is cheaper for a off the people who are complaining and to keep him instead. that is wrong. the research shows that the apact, the negative impact on business of keeping a toxic worker of that kind is way

greater than getting rid of that person and cleaning up the workplace. what advice can you give? doiously, one can and should what this person and other women have done which is talk to hr, talk to other supervisors. none of that is going to help if the hr folks have not been told by the top leadership, when you get this complaint, we want you to say thank you. that is a problem, we're going to try to fix it. it has got to come from the top. it does not help for me to tell someone to complain to a supervisor at that supervisor is going to be rewarded for sweeping it under the rug. we have to shift the workplace culture so that supervisor knows that he or is going to be evaluated at the end of the year for how receptively they responded to a complaint and did

something. before to change that life is going to be different for anyone who wants to complain. feldblum, we have to say goodbye. our conversation will continue with our callers on the "washington journal." where should people go on your website? you go to eeoc.gov, right on the home page it says where to file complaint. you can also google eeoc harassment report, it will bring you to the page at the eeoc where we have a number of whatrces to let you know is illegal, how you can fire a charge -- how you can file a charge, what we can do to help you. togethers have to come

to try to demand more of our workplaces and change the workplace culture. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning san francisco, jackson katz, founder and president of violence prevention strategies. what is this organization? do? do you guest: we do gender violence prevention training and settings, n all colleges, high schools, all branches of u.s. military and corporate y in settings. the goal is prevention, education, because so much of harassment or sexual violence or relationship abuse preventable se are abuses in many cases and obviously we have an approach years eveloped over many that we think is effective in working with various boysations, men and women, and girls and all kind of different settings and multi racial, multi ethnic environments, urban areas, suburban area, everywhere. approach? is your

guest: we are one of the pioneers of the bystander approach. instead nder approach, of focusing on perpetrator and victim, we focus on everybody peer culture n. work place, it wouldn't be focusing on the person whoing it, itse or experiencing would be on everybody else in the peer culture. you know, we've developed a strategy, if you will, or pedigocical learning strategy to given workybody in a place or peer culture in challenging and interrupting behavior, doing it smartly and thoughtfully, doing supporting victims and targets of harass sxment abuse, to the isolating it person experiencing it and doing it or frankly we don't just managers or the leaders within those spaces or university or setting tis not just the

the ins of teams or presidents of fraternities and sororities, we focus on leadership and what everybody else can do. say, i'm not le sure what to do, it is not affecting me directly. do.not sure what i should that is the kind of person we want to work with in this model. then who is it, that calls you? and why our clients would they reach out to you for this strategy? well, i and my colleagues have been at the cutting edge of he field of gender violence prevention for a long time, since the early 1990s. the sports culture, first in the u.s. military, for he prevention of gender violence, including sexual harassment, but sexual violence, domestic violence, relationship abuse, gay bashing, bullying, we on sexual only harassment. harassment is one of spectrum of

we address. i think we've been successful subculturesdifficult like the sports culture, military culture, hyper cultures and in male dominated corporate spaces. we know how to work effectively with men and bridging the ifferences and challenges of working in diverse environment, ot just racially, but gender and sexually environments, we and men and can engage men in an effective way. that?how do you do guest: well, one way to do it is efining it as a leadership issue for men and as strength for men. man challenging other men or interrupting other men's sexism is not somehow an evidence of a softness or s or something like that or he's too politically correct. actually illustration or manifestation of strength and is character and we define it

like that and challenge men and say, look, if you are silent in of your fellow men's sexually harassing behaviors or forms of abuse, if you're ilent, your silence is consent in abuse. do you want to be that guy that walks away or participates silence or inaction in perpetuation of abuse or behavior? is that who you want to be? or somebody who says, i'm not i can't remain silent, talk about what kind of trategy you can employ, what are your options in given situations. i think men should respond to men don't want to be part of toxic systems, they them to t women around experience it, don't want themselves to experience it. experiences have close with women close to us who have been themselves victims and targets of harassment. men close to us who have been harassment, giving

ways to deal with it rather than silence, concrete step what is they can do and support for doing it and guy who does speak up in the work place, for example, the guy who does call say, i got er and concerns about the way you are talking about women. we're defineing that as an act of strength and friendship, an act of responsibility, rather some attaching some negative characteristic to that intervention. host: you deal with culture, then. the -- do you think the government has a role in trying sexual harassment? o the laws on the books do enough? guest: well, what we've had, the experience over the last if you will, it's the modern body of sexual in the nt laws emerged

1970s and devolved over the decades. but a lot of education that goes on around sexual harassment revention is really formalistic, legal education, 1970s and devolved where people are read, if you ill, the regulations or the rules based on whether it is federal government, state overnment, different work places have mandates, a lot is being compliant with specific language within law and think that is important. i think everybody, for example, in the work place needs to know is.t the law the law has an important law here and legal action has mandating and in then following up on and enforcing certain kinds of codes behavior, but we don't focus on the legal stuff. i think we have to have honest, honest dialogue and engage men and women in work with , again, this is college students, in corporate ettings, all kind of places in dialogue beyond formal legal requirements. questions,out ethical

who are you as a person, who do you want to be as a person and behavior comport with best sense of who you are and who you want to be rather than on are you in violation of the policy if you say this or do this? formalping away from the legal language in the i think it space, opens up, creates mood where you have honest sharing. a lot of guys have never had an onest conversation about these matters and with other guys or creating educational space can be constructive. by the way naddition, of course, know what the regulations are, what the laws -- being compliant ith policy, with sexual harassment policy led by lawyers very d by people who are

the letter of the law. here is more opening up dialogue. host: okay, jim in maryland, for jackson katz, go ahead. katz on hi, i saw mr. the movie "the red pill" and the author was pointing out how omestic violence against men, 286 stics are that by 2012 tudies totaling 371,600 people and every one women are as likely or more likely to commit than men.iolence she was talking about this, she said, rather than talk about that, he talks about what men can do. if you don't see the picture as making es, you are things worse. mr. katz is creating more do

domestic violence against women, he way he talks about the issues. >> guest: this is something in the gender violence and sexual assault field and sexual arassment field, organized movement of men claiming essentially men are more victimized than women and people and others feminists and thers, holding men accountable and reduce sexism and men's violence are somehow antimale somehow ganging up on men and true victims are men. universe the el folks are living in. i live in what i consider the real world, we have a huge of men's violence against men. domestic violence, sexual these are global problems of immense magnitude. there are some men victims clearly. most men who are victims of sexual violence are victims of violence.s i'm tired, a lot of men and omen in the field are tired of

dealing with ignorant arguments. i care about men, i care about and harassment done to men from the beginning of my work and work, women and men who in the spaces, we've been concerned about violence and harassment toward men, but we lose sight of the larger picture, the larger picture, inism is real and doesn't go both directions. men's dominance is real. it is like saying racism, white victims of racism and there is white people who suffer racism, ays because of but that doesn't negate the fact systemally disadvantages and abuses and hurts people of color and we're two.oing to equate the when it comes to gender, same thing. i have compassion, everybody compassion for mefticvictims whether of violence, nobody should be treated with disrespect. let's not live in a fantasy and have equality of victimization, men's violence gainst women is way big sxer

way greater magnitude than women's violence against men by standard.ale host: iris in south leon, michigan. iris.orning, caller: good morning, greta, and good morning, mr. katz. have -- where does harassment stop and romance begin? supposed to instigate it? eally, is there no touchy feely? are we becoming robots? katz. mr. guest: sexual harassment nvolves repeated and unwanted sexual behavior in work place or nonsexual environment. things.t confuse the two we can't confuse romantic nterlewd between individuals awkwardly trying to approach each other at a club or a romantic setting and the place.ional work these are two different places. women and men are in the work

job, do a o a professional job. when they are treated as sexual trying to do their job, the experience of millions of women, then you have a problem. i don't think those who are doing this work aren't confused about the distinction. distinctions and i think a ot of people understand the distinction. they cross lines. the work place is not a club. romanticplace is not a interlued, the work place is the want to be nd women treated with dignity. it is a simple concept. been talking e about for years, we talk to you how would you feel if were there for sexual pleasure for others than rather than being respected for your abilities?ents and take a step back and think about ow you would feel if you were constantly faced with this. scandal after scandal, whether in the wood, fox news, corporate environments, in tech military, n the

obviously on college campuses hashtag, at me too women who have come forward to talk about experiences of sexual sexual abuse, sexual violation. street en walk down the or ride the subway without being grabbed and groped. romantic t just about confusion, this is about violation of people's personal and their personal space and their professional integrity. million is number of weets sent out with the me too hashtag since sunday. new mexico.cruz, caller: hi, good morning. host: morning. caller: i worked at the post years, before that, the marine corps. the marine corps tweeted me the post office. i felt tiring in 2004, like i had ptsd. wanted to mention is

leadership. organization or company you work for, a leader that is a going to take charge and make sure these things are done. and they can allow them just by turning their head the other way. and in the post office, what they did was transfer these are, they would pick somebody out and harass them. managers. it wasn't a matter of male or harass them would or do hey quit something -- you probably remember the phrase going postal. host: let me leave it there and have jackson katz after you hear from debra. talked about leadership, hear debra has to say debra has to

richmond. go ahead, debra. caller: yes, good morning. congregation of pastors all over the world will stand up and say the bible,s wrong in okay. that e horrible things they have to treatment of women wrong.bible is forever.oing to go on host: two interesting thoughts, what do you think? no doubt this is a leadership issue. drumbeen beat thanksgiving for decades. in the military, commend climate. ommander has responsibility, troops have to be responsible for behavior and such, but the limate, the environment within the unit, within the company, what have you is responsibility that is mmander and generalizable concept for every situation, work place, the leaders, corporate

the president of the company in the college and universities, example, in athletics, not the student athletes that set tone, athletic director, coaches, leaders have important enforcing a and certain code, this is what we xpect and what we doll and if people don't meet the expectations. if you want to be part of the the team and want to successfully operate in this raternity, all kind of different settings, these are we have to ways expect you to treat each other and if you are a man, expect you to treat women with respect and be out of line with value of we this work place and organization and that, the manager, the leader has more responsibility than everybody else. about beginning, talking the bystander approach. everybody in a given peer culture, not just leaders have a to play. often, greta, explain that the the friend or ay

co-worker who challenges or behavior are sive asking what a leader does. situation that a something is wrong and acting. there is a real direct bystander ip between approach, everybody has a role to play and focus on leadership position f people in of formal leadership, they have an added responsibility because formal in position of leadership. we need to get to a place in society, if you are a man in a leadership, not just a woman, if you are a woman, as ell, you're going to be expected to create and sustain these kinds of healthy nvironments, you will be expected to affirmatively and roactively call out abusive behavior or be seen as fail nothing your leadership. that you are not a nice guy or we're hoping you are a nice guy who helping out the women.

if you don't do this, don't make this a priority in your management, d you're failing as a manager and leader in the work place. look around y, you you, there is a lot of people, a lot of men who are not doing well in this regard, obviously there is many who are doing a good job. game d to ramp up our quite a bit. host: tommy, then we'll go to nancy after that. in woodward, oklahoma. caller: yes, this is tommy and i was the e to say i roust about hired as mobi mobil oil corporation. bid around from job to job and i made it -- i had the most d i was qualified one and they hired me. tired of anen i get area, i could bid to another miles at was maybe 20

away and so it worked out real didn't have to stay in one place, but there was harassment and there was dirty more than was given my share and i had made my mind to be the -- going going to be -- going to do it, i going to be run off. i tried to get along with everybody. the men , most of introduce me to their wifes and we would make a friendship utside of the work, they would be very nice to me and i would be nice to them. worked.st 20 years, it there were one or two times that i was actually thought about, know, but i never could get he foreman's job i wanted or the pressure job i wanted, it pumper, s, i could be lease operator or i could be a repairment, but i couldn't get a supervisory job. tommy's story.

nance nefranklin, north carolina. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. of the things i'm thinking about is women in the work place and how caddy they can be. harassed backldly working60s, early '70s, in record companies, etcetera. raised in nd was southern california. but in mid-california, i worked the most major banks, women's branch in central california and we -- all men, we had inspector come in every year. a couple came in, one female, one male. looking, y good needless to say, well, these on him like a cage ull of monkeys on one single

banana. this poor guy didn't have a prayer. host: nancy, we'll take your point. jackson katz. uest: clearly women can act abusively, there can be toxic ehaviors engaged in by women and men in work place, whether all female work place or even in when women have authority over men, they can misuse authority. nobody should be abused and be called out d and held accountable for being abusive. i would agree with that, again, it is important that i, as a man and those doing this perspective, s in men's violence against women and the harassment is by far biggest problem, but it doesn't mean there aren't other issues that are worthy of discussion worthy of our action, as well as our compassion for the targets.nd i mean, again, i hope nobody this away from conversation with the diluted belief that somehow there is quation between the amount of

sexual harassment that men suffer in the work place versus omen, it is wildly disproportionate, men are the perpetrators and women are the victim necessary vast majority cases, that doesn't negate men as victims, but doesn't two.e the host: listen to david's question quickly. in for a procoming forma session real quickly. david, real quick. air., you are on the caller: yes, i would like to comment about the harassment man. i think the talk is not enough, it has to be more action. i think the problem is -- 60 years changed in america. host: david, i think i your point, the house is about to come in. us a n katz, can you give response to less talk more action? guest: i agree 100%, we need a lot more action. accountability

at all level, build educational collegess k-12 and into and graduate schools, need to prepare, not just young women or the work place in the 21st century, prepare young men to navigate complexity of gender diversity and ethnic diversity that, is something on us, all of us, especially those policymakers, those who are leaders within educational institutions, build this stuff end so we're not always dealing on the back end ith lawsuits and messes and people's lives ruined. start earlier and do more know enough after the last several decades of educational practice and experience. we now enough to know that can really do a better job than we're doing if we have political ill and educational leadership buy-in to help our young people avigate and older people navigate complex nuances of 21st century life. host: quickly, do you think that needs to be put into law, training, in our

communities and school? guest: to the extent we can law can be affect and ocial policy can affect educational requirements, yes, 21st century education should by definition engagement with these kind of issues and people around helping develop the tools to engage with these kind of questions. his is real-world stuff and we -- there is disconnect between how much we know and how approaches we've developed over the last number of decades nd implementation of educational practices in k-12, in college and in graduate extent social he policy can push educational administrators to enact those educational programming, yeah, i would support it. host: okay. viewer consist learn more by

>> before we join c-span's city tour of the, south dakota, a look at some halloween. scary outfit. who are you? come on over here. i cannot believe the media beautiful.is -- such dads?are the moms and come over here. are?u know who they loved -- they are the .riendly media

you going to grow up to be like your parents? don't answer. that can only get me in trouble. that is a very scary outfit. a good time?g what is this? this is from the white house. ?ee what that says

you have no weight problems, that is the good news. if you want some for your friends, take them. we have plenty. preview --e press how does the press treat you? you get treated better by the press than anyone. beautiful children. i like that hair. what color is that? purple? .hat is beautiful

>> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was crated by a public service by america's television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. for the next hour, our cities tour visits here, south dakota about itsmore history. for six years, we have traveled to u.s. cities. you can watch more of our visits at