partisanship at home. jackson warned them against control of their own government by come in his words, "the rich and the powerful." >> american history tv come all weekend, every weekend, only on c-span3. "> "washington journal continues. host: joining us now is eric morath, economy reporter with the "wall street journal." he is here to break down the november jobs of report. thank you for joining us this morning. let's start with the headline -- "the u.s. economy is hitting while stones not seen in more than a decade, marked by a --ust hiring that has led to nonfarm payrolls a seasonally adjusted record 86 straight

." its of expansion also says "the unemployment rate is down to 4.1%, down for two straight months the holding at a 17-year low." what is the reason for some of these positive figures? guest: we have been in a long stretch of economic expansion to we have been growing fairly consistently in this country since the middle of 2009, so we are starting to see that they all for more and more americans. businesses are seeing demands for their products and services, and they need workers to meet those demands. are there any surprises in this report so far? is the economy over performing? guest: i think it is performing pretty close to its peak capacity, which is what a lot of people are reporting. the other is the wages figure. we are not seeing the pickup in

wages that we have seen when the unemployment rate has been near 4%. host: what does this say about the outlook? ahe can we expect to come ad? can we expect to see this continual uptick? the jobs far as market, i would expect to see a bit of a cooling. some jobs are saying it is difficult to get workers, and that might challenge them to continue to hire at a strong clip of more than 200,000 per month. growth slowing. the projections for economic growth are to continue or perhaps strengthening the heading into next year. host: we talking with eric morath of the "wall street journal" about the november economic numbers. we have a special line for the segment. if you are unemployed and looking for a job, you can call (202) 748-8000. if you are unemployed and you have stopped looking, you can call (202) 748-8001. if you are employed, you can

call (202) 748-8002. and all others, (202) 748-8003. so i want to talk a little bit more about what the unemployment numbers themselves, how is that an indicator of the strength of the economy, and how does that differ from other numbers? guest: the important thing with the unemployment rate is it shows the share of americans that are actively looking for work but cannot find a job. when we are in a recession, that number gets quite elevated. it could be one in 10 americans who are saying, i really want to find work, i am a plan, i am going on job interviews, and i cannot land anything. nearthe unemployment rate 4%, that means most americans who would like a job have one, and that is a really positive sign for income. families have income, they can spend metal goods and services,

and that creates a virtuous cycle in the economy. although this is low, the , the lowering of the unemployment rate is slowing down significantly. guest: sure. there is sort of a floor in the unemployment rate. the unemployment rate really cannot get to 0% because there are always some people that have quit jobs or lost jobs and are looking for work, and that is a natural turn of the economy. that is a positive thing, you have some turn in the economy. look underneath the numbers we . when we were in the recession, the people by and large have been unemployed for a long time. it is hard to get a job when you have been out of work for six months or more. is that hass now shrunk, it is still a bit elevated, but a lot of the

people that are unemployed at this point are people that recently either lost or quit a job and they are looking for new work. that is generally considered a positive sign of the economy. "ost: in the "new york times today, your competitor paper, a slightly different spin -- there could be fears that the economy could overheat. there are challenges, particularly in light of the $1.5 trillion in tax cuts that congress could pass as early as this month. the tax billpect to provide at least a modest lift to the economy. they are not sure that is a good idea with unemployment so low and the economy fundamentally healthy, a tax cut could lead the economy to grow too quickly, pushing up inflation and forcing the federal reserve to raise interest rates faster than planned. is this a valid fear? guest: sure. a number of economists we spoke

to expressly same concerns. tax cuts would be a stimulus to the u.s. economy. when the economy is not doing so well, the stimulus can help lower the unemployment rate. difficult totty envision the unemployment rate going significantly lower from where it is now. if we are pushing additional funds into the economy in the form of a $1.5 trillion tax cut, there is a risk that that could cause inflation, and that could cause the federal reserve to act. the could dampen some of stimulus that would have otherwise come from this economy, because, essentially, as i said, things are running pre-much as good as a machine can run, and there are many economists that are concerned about overheated. host: elliott is calling from lakeland, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i was going to ask mr. morath --

have you thought about trump's -- coal, drilling in the arctic -- how has that growth? job i will take my answer off the air. guest: that is a question, and we hear that a lot. the coal and mining industry, which includes oil and gas extraction as well, has had a good year. employment in that sector has gone up, and some certainly credit the president's policies for that, for being more targeted to the industry. another is falling oil prices. alongside the lowering of oil prices, it was less profitable for the industry, and anyone who is filled up their gas things have noticed that prices are a little bit higher than they were a year ago. that might support more profits in the industry and therefore more jobs in the industry.

host: we are by eric morath, the economy report for the "wall street journal." he is also a former reporter for dow jones newswire. he also cover the auto industry in detroit for several years in the home state that we share. we're talking about the latest jobs numbers. again, if you are unemployed and looking, (202) 748-8000. if you are unemployed and he stopped looking, (202) 748-8001. if your employe -- if you are employed, (202) 748-8002. all others --(202) 748-8003. on the opinion page of the "wall it digs intol," the causes of what the uptick our. -- are.

it goes on to say "the biggest change has been the u.s. economic policy, notably the trump administration's effort in the post they have given to business confidence. barack obama's economist and dismiss it, even calling it a going to growth, but the cost of compliance were real and added to the uncertainty. do you agree with that? guest: there is certainly a debate going on. i do not think you can discount the fact that we are in a global economy that has picked up. we have seen the best growth numbers in a decade out of europe. japan is on a modest streak of growth. the global economy is doing better, and that is certainly aiding the u.s. economy as well. as the piece mentioned, the policies from central banks have helped. i feel like the trump administration, that would be one element of a number of different factors that are

affecting the economy. host: dan is going from new york on our employed line. good morning, dan. caller: hi. we talk a lot about the rate of unemployment. you're are probably already talking about how that is measured versus underemployed and people who have "stopped looking." i think the rate of employment versus inflation, what could be said about having full employment, and is it something that is just too scary for the system to contemplate, that people would all be employed at reasonable wages that would help them survive? guest: the wage question is a little but of a quandary, that we are not seeing stronger wage growth, given that the unemployment rate is low. there is certainly the thought is more jobs and more competition for jobs, that will help push wages up.

that is something we will be watching for. the other factor is, though, the u.s. is no longer a labor market into itself. we compete with forces around the globe. those forces put downward pressure on wages. where also at the point baby boomers are increasingly retired, and they were paid relatively well compared to millennials who are entering the labor force. there are a number of factors affecting wages. certainly what a lot of economists are looking for as we move toward the concept of full employment that we will see some inflationary pressures on wages. economic theory shows. host: all right. patricia is calling from miami. you are unemployed and looking, patricia. caller: yes, ma'am, good morning. i have been unemployed for two months. i am a professional chef.here in

florida, the job market is horrible . here in florida, the job market rate -- paying people is horrible. ,hey make you work your job doing three jobs instead of one. i am a chef. i am a professional. they want me to wash dishes, throw out garbage, for one salary, $10. i cannot do it. i cannot do $10. everything is going up. the market, maybe for unemployment, it is not the trump administration, it happened under obama. the numbers are not obama's numbers, they are not trump's numbers. he has been in office maybe for a year. he has not done anything. he won't do anything. i forget -- we're going to have a market crash. i guess we are going to have inflation pretty bad. we're going to go backwards.

women, wemmon for have a president who -- for the comment about women, we have a president who does not encourage women in the job places. host: i want to get eric's thoughts that there could be a market crash, some sort of counter reaction to the current economic surge. how valid or those fears? guest: it is certainly a true that we are in a very long recovery. it would be the exception to continue on for years and years more. the last time the unemployment 2000.as below 4% was late a recession started three months later. i am not saying a low unemployment rate means a recession is coming am a but it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that we are in late stages in this expansion and we are sort of due for a recession. "ost: the "wall street journal

put out a series of helpful charts -- we like charts -- talking about breaking down exactly what these numbers mean. features, itoyment broke it down in terms of things like level of education, showing for people aged 25 and over, showing that the unemployment rate has dropped for everybody, but a little more precipitously for those with less than a high , a lot moretion gradual for those who are college-educated. what does that tell us about those in the job force? guest: that is a very important statistic to look at. we've seen in recent years that the unemployment rate for those with less education has fallen, and that is a positive sign that we are pulling every buddy wants a job into the labor market. easier forit is somebody who has a college degree to get a job.

the fact that the unemployment rate, while certainly elevated compared to their peers who went to college, suggests we are at a healthy state of the employment market. host: larry is calling from avon park, florida. you are on with eric morath. caller: thank you very much. before .1% unemployment number, i believe, is deceptive due to the youth six employment data i would like to aboutn that or talk that for a second, how that is impacting the actual unemployment rate. thank you. guest: sure. i would love to talk about the youth six. what the color is referencing is six differentally measurements of unemployment that the government produces. when we refer to it, we are talking about the youth three. broadest is the

measure, people who are unemployed but also those who are stuck in al part-time jobs that want to work full-time, and it also includes what we call discouraged workers. like af course i would job," but they have kind of given up looking. that number was 8% this past month. that is almost doubled the unemployment rate. it suggests that there is a little bit more unemployment out there. if you look at it historically, that number has finally reached about the level it was before the recession began. time in this expansion, we had an elevated number of people that were stuck in part-time jobs or just said "i am not even bothering to look because there are no jobs for me." that number has fallen. it is a sign of a really healthy labor market. host: andy is calling from kentucky. unemployed and stopped looking. caller: i stopped looking for a

job 27 years ago. i did not like the socialism that we are going into. you cannot afford to pay taxes, you cannot afford your property. but health insurance -- there are so many things so destructive to the employment force out there trying to work. if you have a business or the company does not pay health insurance and a person is being forced to pay the penalty, that will have them stop and drop out from work. look at all of the drug addicts that are not working and we have to pay for. the socialism stuff is for the birds. that americansen face, whether it is health-care costs or the cost of housing, those are some factors. those have been going up at a faster rate than inflation. in many parts of the country,

health care and housing have gone up faster than people's wages. while a lot of people have jobs and are seeing modest increases in income, you know, i certainly hear what the caller is saying, that people are frustrated. they feel like they cannot get ahead, even if you do have a job. host: another helpful jo chart from the "wall street journal" shows a breakdown in unemployment rate by sex and ethnicity, race and ethnicity as well as gender. it shows that right after the recession or during the recession, it hit black men the hardest followed by black women, hispanic women, hispanic men, white women and wightman at the bottom. decreased for black menbut again, in black women have a higher unemployment rate. what is the cause of that difference there?

even though it has gotten better, it still remains? guest: sure. a number of factors to think about. there are things that people look at in terms of education, family background, did your parents be able to guide you to jobs, have connection? did you have educational opportunities? all thoseyou look at different factors, there is still a gap that shows minorities are paid less than whites, that women are paid less than men. a lot of people say that is where you would see discrimination, whether it is overt or someone kind of in the back of their mind. that is kind. of the explanation it should be noted that while still elevated a lowustrated, we have unemployment rate for hispanics this month, the rate for blacks is historically low at this where it wasd to in the recession when it was

certainly high. host: brian is calling from wisconsin. you are on with eric morath. caller: hi, eric. thank you, c-span, for taking my call. is -- iscurious about that everybody between the ages of, say, 18 and retirement age, or is that everybody from infants to the elderly? i will take your answer off-line. thank you. guest: i love all of these great economics questions today. the labor force participation rate is not include infants, so my kids are not on there, but it is 16 years and older. that includes people, potentially, certainly people 80 years old and up there working everyday. labor force participation rate includes pretty much all adults. deepthe labor department

inside these reports breaks a little bit further, so there is a measure of those that are 25 to 54. we call those prime-aged workers. they are probably finish with her education, probably saving for retirement. that is easy interesting to look at. can see the aging in the population, a decrease in the amount of people working. people are retiring. that roof up prime-aged workers, it is a little bit depressed from where it was before the recession began, but that has really stabilized connected with the low unemployment rate. if you are kind of in that range, working age adult, if you want a job, there's a good chance you can find one. host: is the federal reserve does raise interest rates, as they are expected to, how might that impact the economy? guest: it would increase the or maybe itowing,

would dissuade businesses from invest. at the same time, being told by the tax policy to invest more. what the fed wants is to grow at a consistent. r rate. they are looking to make sure we do not overheat and create a bubble. maybe they put valid pressure on the stock market and maybe keep economic growth in a little bit in a lower range. calling.e is you are employed. good morning. caller: my topic i would like to discuss with you is we often talk about manufacturing jobs going overseas, but i don't hear a lot of discussion on the national level of professional jobs that are being moved overseas, and there are two issues with the. employmentourse the

and the opportunity laws for professionals -- opportunity lost for professionals, especially as the economy becomes more technically oriented, but engineering jobs, computer, software programming jobs, things of that sort. what the corporations have been doing is lobbying the licensing agencies, for example, the engineering licensing agencies, which are mostly on the state level. but it is a national issue. they have been lobbying them to license to get engineering licenses, professional licenses overseas. been largelyk has outsourced overseas, and the professional engineers here domestically, which are more or less supervising that work. what is happening now is the corporations have incorporated that extra profit. now they are going to go for what is left. let's take out the supervising aspect of it.

you have this licensing now going overseas. you have professional engineers licensed at the state level. host: i want to give eric a chance to address that issue. guest: when we talk about -- why aren't wages growing faster? -- that is something we have to consider. he is right. bolts,o longer "i make and now the balls are made in china." it is a global economy are you concerned a client in india, and you can also serve a client in india from new york. if you look at trade numbers, it tends to benefit. when you talk about services, we have a surplus of services. we have a deficit in goods, a surplus of services. we're on the positive side of more people buy. an is movie spirit almost all of the movies are made here and watch all over the

world. engineering, back in our home state of engine michigan, we -- of michigan, we have engineers all over. host: good morning. caller: good morning. a couple of different things. i am wondering what you're really gauging your jobless rates figures with. youthe comment about if want work, you can find it i think is optimistic i think there are many workers in this country that are falling short, unable to find anything, even navigating and hr system. depressed, thee alcoholics, and the opioid crisis. how are those in your figures when you're determining them? i think the numbers are far off. i would like to hear your comments. guest: we take our numbers from the labor department, the bureau of labor statistics produces that data.

workers areouraged measured, you are absolutely right. that is an economic challenge. a challenge to figure out. responsive --not and that is becoming a larger and larger problem, people do not want to take a phone call or send a letter back to the government for a survey, it is hard to measure. to findne is unable work because they are dealing with alcoholism, drugs, or depression, that is hard to define. if they had a job, they would not have these problems, or -- it is a difficult problem, and you are right. we are talking about a little bit less than 1/3 of americans are outside of the labor force. some of them seem to be there because they are retired or staying home with children. some of them, it is a little but more of a great area but i think the caller is speaking of. is calling from new haven, connecticut. caller: good morning.

to start by saying a deficit means we are in a negative. if we are on the prospects of another recession, what are we doing to prevent it and keep our jobs? guest: some economists and analysts actually made that redmond a sugar if you are seeing a raise and are seeing things going pretty well in your life, maybe think about saving. long-term planning, it us, people lost their jobs. they're struggling to get back to where they were. think about the long-term future. make some investments in your long-term. not kind of use that money to go out and buy the next christmas present. host: eric morath is that the economy reporter with the "wall street journal. you can find his work at" wsj.com. thank you for joining us this morning. go spartans. guest: yeah. host: coming up, we will take

more of your calls. .epublicans, (202) 748-8001 democrats, (202) 748-8000. s and independents, (202) 748-8002. later on, "time" correspondence wj hennigan will be here to discuss the role of elite special operations forces and the toll it is taking on those fighters. we will be right back. 7:00 eastern on booktv on c-span2, former senior adviser to the secretary of haroon x tillerson, ullah, discusses his book "digital ward were." content is king, distribution is clean, and she wears the pants in the family. we are in a constant war. 8:00, former cs nbc anchor

anchor,mer msnbc greta van sustern. >> people have done incredible things with social media. social media is not really new all that is as a delivery platform. think about it. smoke signals, that is social media. the party line, the telephone line, that is social media. everybody on the block is going to get on the phone. what is so different is that everything, of course, is amplified in terms of how for you reach and of course the speed of the comedic-ish. >> for the full schedule, go to booktv.org. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's

cable companies and is brought to today by your cable or satellite provider. "> "washington journal continues. host: we are taking your calls this segment, again, republicans can call (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . we will also take a look at some other headlines from across the pages of thefront museum, the pensacola news journal leads with a rally that the president held where he encourage folks in nearby alabama to vote for roy moore in the alabama special election. in san diego, the "union by the" is led wildfires, "on high alert" is

the headline there. more than 4000 acres burned, 100 destroyed, 14% contained, and 10,000 people under evacuation orders in and around san diego. also, "the grand rapids press" from michigan is talking but the economists talking about the next u.s. recession is lurking out there. ers say economic growth will come. inally, "the clarion ledger" mississippi is led by headlines about the new civil rights museum that is set to open there. the new museum opens to the public today. line from greenville, south carolina, democratic line, good morning, lisa. oh, we lost lisa. we will go to count who is calling in from los angeles on our republican line.

cat, i hope the wildfires are not affecting you. caller: good morning. i just wanted to comment on the unemployment issues. i have a radio show here in los angeles, and i have a building inspector on my radio show, and he informed us, despite the fact that los angeles is experiencing a construction boom, at least 75% of the workers on a construction job are illegal's, so this is why wages are suppressed. guests, who is talking about employment and the economy , did not discuss the fact that 40have between 30 and illegal immigrants in the united states, and they are working. i find it interesting that they never brought that up. host: ok. bob is coming in from hyattsville, maryland on our

independent line. what is on your mind, bob. caller: it is ironic that i jobs that go way the way faster than other jobs because with the concentration on robotics, all these jobs that require a lot of logic and rational thinking, step-by-step, i bet those will be the ones that disappear first kineticore, i guess, type of jobs like art or music or what have you. with human artistic creativity. that is how i feel about the direction of employment. host: bob, why do you think that, why do you think it is the

.t.e.m. jobs that are more in danger? caller: because these are ones you can program by pure logic. and not only s.t.e.m. jobs that accounting. we have to follow these step-by-step rules to get the results. these are the type of jobs i feel that are in more jeopardy, despite the fact that the s.t.e.m. jobs are touted right now as the jobs of the future and all of that. the gentleman who called earlier , he had no medical training, you will soon be replaced by all of the artificial intelligence. host: all right. other headlines today, the "washington post" -- president

trump expanding penalties agains wells fargo. lashing out against wells fargo, insisting and threatening even harsher penalties. "fines and penalties against wells fargo bank for their bad acts against their customers and others will not be dropped, as has been incorrectly reported, but will be pursued and if anything substantially increase," trump said in a tweet. "i will cut regs but make penalties severe one caught cheating." trump was apparently referring reuter report published thursday to set the consumer financial protection bureau, recently taken over by a trump appointee, was reviewing whether the bank should be forced to pay potentially tens of millions of dollars for mortgage lending abuse. what is on your mind? caller: you guys are talking about workplace harassment.

years ago, i went to the mall, christmas shopping with my sister. i hear some commotion, i looked around, my sister told this handsdual "keep your ofo to your mofo self. my brotherill have kick your butt." i saw my sister get back i completely straight. host: ok. aj is coming from raleigh, north carolina, on our republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. the gentleman who just spoke in terms of the role we have to play as women in taking care of ourselves. if stuff happens in the workplace, you have to speak out. you cannot wait for 30 or 40 years to say something. person get away with

it and probably exposes somebody else to the same kind of behavior. anyway, just agreeing with him. question?i ask you a what about women who say they are afraid for their jobs, that they will be blackballed? the woman who accuse congressman farenthold said she was unable to get another job in washington after she came forward. caller: washington is not the only place for you to work, babe. if you're are going to sit there and shut up and let people be subjected to the other stuff, then you are part of the problem. you are part of the problem. do have to speak up. you cannot just be afraid. maybe you will not be able to work in that job, but you can work in another job, right? you can work in another chapter it is the thing is proven to be true, then that is what hr is for, and you get yourself a good lawyer, and maybe gloria allred will take you up -- then again,

maybe she won't. anyway. that is my answer to that, ok? the reason i call, though, was the employment numbers for blacks and hispanics. i think this is the time where people need to look for their own self interests. if there are jobs out there that are to be had, then you need to go out there and get in line and get a job and not be waiting for someone to give you something and get a free this or a free that. true freedom comes from making your own living, not waiting for somebody. because then it leaves you at mercy ofand the politicians could you are in if there is a democrat, out if there is a republican. you need to get in line and get a job and start taking care of your family. about people with college degrees. if you have a skill, if you are ac technician, you always have worked.

this will think that you have to go to college in order to get by -- i do not need a college whentio-educated mechanic i have an issue with my car. i need my car fixed and get back on the road. host: other headlines today, the "washington post" reports that a report is looking closely at president trump's tweets in considering the challenges travel ban. the trump administration lawyer explains how the court should separate's the president latest tweets from the government's assertions that its new policy does not target muslims. in lively, aggressive questions, several judges of the u.s. court of appeals for the fourth circuit pointed to the president's tweets last week sharing inflammatory anti-muslim videos posted by a far right british activist.

host: tiffany is on the line from albany, new york on our democratic line. hi, tiffany. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was listening to so many other americans make their opinions known. i have two or three quick things. first, on jobs, i think that jobs are definitely tied to the tax bill. i think it is, for the lack of a better word, delusional for anyone to think the gop tax bill is going to spur corporations to put that money back into the workers. i think that that money will do what it has always dying go back to the -- always done and go back to the company and make profit.

women being leaders, i think that is great. i think it is great that we are coming together and men are being held accountable for their actions, whether it be hollywood, whether it be washington. for those in the private sector, like waitresses and vulnerable women. createshat the movement is so they can share their stories and things like that. the last thing is, i really wish that our country can move as swiftly and as justly the way we move with the #metoo movement. i wish we could move that way with police brutality. these people are saying the exact same thing that the women who have been harassed or saying, except it is just being pushed aside. wordsliterally the same -- "person of power did something to me that i could not fight back."

it is the same thing, whether it is a woman being harassed by a politician or whether it is a cop who shot someone who is unarmed. both of those people had no power. and the other person had so much power that they knew they would get away with it. that is all. host: joe is on our republican line from greenfield, massachusetts. caller: i think there are structural problems in the labor market. disregard the whole unemployment thing. people ine thing -- know, they just seem to always want to work more than 40 hours. they want to work 50 hours, 60 hours just because they need the money. i think it is a really big structural problem. theirk people, you know, personal lives are diminished because they work so much. in the 1990's, you know, people worked 40-hour weeks. just worked 40

hours. i do not know how to get back to that. i think we just have to go up but also just a general management attitude has to change. i also think that the opioid epidemic has made a lot of people unqualified to work, because most labor-intensive jobs, they give you a drug test, you know. bother looking for work if you are going to fail the drug test? anyway, thank you very much for an unbiased program i can watch in the morning. it is a rarity. [laughs] thank you very much. host: another headline from the "wall street journal" -- trucmp allies are urging a hard-line as ueller probe heats up --

host: randall is calling in from springfield, missouri on our republican line. what is on your mind today, randall? caller: good morning. thank you for the want to mention the fact that interest rates had to stay near 0% entire termbama's to show people that his policy and regulations were killing

jobs and therefore killing america. also, like the previous caller said, illegal aliens coming in from the southern border and working achieve in living on government subsidies is also helping keep wages low. now that you have trump in office and he has reversed obama's regulations and policies, you're starting to see feds consider raising interest rates, and that means that the economy is doing a lot better because it can support higher interest rates. host: let me ask you a question, particularly on the unemployment numbers. saw aart that we saw steady job and unemployment since 2010, during the obama administration, and it continues now. caller: they actually had to dge the numbers on unemployment to make obama look good. those are not real numbers. they fudged them and made them look good. they are fake numbers, in other words.

they did not account for people who stopped looking for work. they did not account for people -- for example, when somebody went off of unemployment, they are no longer counted. they are not in the system anymore. so as people went off unemployment, the numbers started looking better because the people who were not working were not counted. host: ok. judith is on the line from seattle on our independent line. judith. caller: good morning, and thank you for taking my call. i want to point out that i am from washington state, a state that is never included in the national weather because we are on the west coast, way up in the north. the reason i am calling is twofold. we had a very good rate of employment here, very low unemployment here. workforceery strong as far as professional as well the only problem we have

that is a serious problem is migratory labor. the east part of our state relies on migratory labor to pick the fruit, etc. without the auditory labor people, who are now afraid to to work, we are not getting a lot of our product picked. this is part of the economic problem that causes these issues, these items to be raised in price. so if anyone he wants to know why their fruit costs more now, that is why. also, i wanted to mention that women, traditionally, have been getting, like, 20% less than men for doing the very same work. this is one of the reasons why women cannot afford to enter

politics or have positions outside the home. they are single women, then they have even less opportunities. are going towomen have the same kind of respect as they get in other countries, like australia, is by showing themselves more in politics. and i think you are going to notice, especially in the 2018 election, a lot more women are running. and women do not prefer to support men. they prefer to get out on their own and work. they are not in political jobs because they do not have support. i just want to bring that people's attention. thank you very much. host: in other headlines today, the "new york times" reports activists are pushing for a government shutdown. activists to democrats:

protect young immigrants or shut down government." host: it says "they have to be willing to go all the way to a government shutdown." host: heath is calling from richmond, virginia on our independent line. hi there. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have a couple of comments, one

about the tax bill being applied now. i want to let you know that i feel like this is a farce. it is going to impact the middle class in a way that, after several years, you will see more unemployment in this country because of the tax structure that is leaning mostly toward the corporations, who are not trickling down their ability to help people, to increase their wages. secondly, i just wanted to say that the unemployment in this country has been falling over a period of time, and i believe that barack obama, as one of had stated, really helped the economy come along. i believe that the administration under donald is trying to take all of the credit for the unemployment numbers and people claiming that "fake news" has allowed the liberals to try to claim

whatever they can, but i just want that to stop. barack obama was one of the greatest presidents we have ever had in this country, and black or white, he did a lot to help this country come along based on the bias that was taken place, even at that time between democrats and republicans. host: let me ask you a question -- what about the "wall street journal" talking about the deregulation that has been put in place by the trump administration helping to spur even faster economic growth. do you think that is happening? but i'mit is happening, fearful that this deregulation growth is going to come back and and becausehe rare the way they have gone about it is going to be destructive and a long-term to the economy and the overall impact it has on all classes of people, income-wise. thirdly, i want to speak to what sexualg on with

harassment. i think women in this country need to stand up for themselves, and i believe that -- there was one caller who happens to be a female that i was totally you askd about, when the question, what happens when you are afraid for your job if you see, and she said well, if used begotten really stand up for yourself, then you ought to be able to be able to go to another state and find a job. i believe that is ludicrous. i think a woman should not have to go to another state to find a job just because some man put his hands on her! host: ok. kenny is going from pensacola, florida on our republican line. good morning, kenny. caller: good morning. i want to comment about why women are not running in politics. basically because women understand women, and they will not vote for them, they do not like them. they might need to get up off their rear ends and go vote against them.

you have to have at least 65% to 70% of the female vote to win. the production they made about hillary clinton anti-woman vote, they got it wrong. as far as women not making as men, when we go out to dinner, we are expected to pay for dinner. gokeep that in mind when you out to dinner, maybe pay dutch. thanks. host: another headline, the "washington post" reports that the usda is considering making changes to the food stamp problem. the u.s. department of agriculture is weighing dramatic changes to the supplemental nutrition assistance program, also known as food stamps, the $73 billion social safety net that feeds 42 million americans, according to a conservative group that met with senior officials there this week.

host: john is calling on the line from sherman oaks, california, on our republican line. i hope that you are safe from the fires that are nearby, john. caller: oh, yes. air is about bel five miles from me. i am not in bel air, of course, but it is very close. ash is coming down everywhere. my comment is on the roy moore election. i think one thing that nobody is saying, and i think that a lot of the voters in alabama would accusedn child a

molester -- "accused," not convicted -- than they would for a man who has promised and would no doubt support the killing of unborn babies by abortion. i believe that that is the bottom-line issue for many of the voters. host: ok. stephen is calling from nearby in whittier, california. i hope that you, too, are safe, way of the fires. stephen, can you turn on your tv and listen through the phone? stephen? all right, we are having some technical problems there. coming up, we will have "time" correspondent wj hennigan here military'sthe

growing reliance on elite special forces operations. walidg up, dr. willy gellad will be here to discuss the proposed cvs-aetna merger. but first, senator pat roberts of kansas, he is chairman of the ethics committee. here he is on senator al franken and senate candidate roy moore. can you characterize the work of the committee? senator al franken stepped down, despite saying earlier that he wanted the ethics committee to do an investigation. do you believe that a member of do you believe a member of congress can get to process through the ethics committe? >> oh, yes. i do not want to label all the

cases we have doubt with. we are very deliberate and also expedite as best we can. john isaacson is a super chairman. we're bipartisan, the least partisan committee for that question, and each member does a very good job. but it is confidential, both the members and the process. when we reach a decision, we make it public. that has already made a statement that we are investigating senator franken. host: without going into areas you cannot discuss, your job could get even harder next week if it turns out that roy moore is elected and you have someone accused of molesting teenage girls in your midst. can you talk about how this compared with earlier moments? how hard is it to grapple with these issues? >> there is a difference, in that committee has always been

involved with people who have bent the rules, fourth era has been a complaint. the committee receives a lot of complaints that are simply dismissed because they are simply without merit. usually,usually, well, it is always been with regards to any transgression during a person's tenure in the body, in the senate. and, with regards to judge moore, that is a decision that will be have to be made. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are now joined by "time" correspondent w.j. hennigan as part of our spotlight on magazines series to talk about the growing reliance on elite forces and the toll it is taking on fighters. so, for those who aren't familiar, explain exactly what these elite forces are and what

they do. guest: right, so special operations forces are probably the most well-known are the navy seals responsible for the raid and subsequent killing of osama bin laden. they also were critical in finding saddam hussein. kill or these sort of capture missions just are probably about 10% of what special operations forces actually do. the vast majority of them are on the strain, advise and equip missions which they work with local forces in a wide range of help them stand up their own military forces to combat terrorism. host: and, sort of, talk a little bit about the training process that these special ops troops have to go through different than other members of the military. each militaryso, branch has its own special operations unit.

navy has the seals, army has dealt a force, which is counterterrorism -- delta force. they the special forces known as the green berets. they goe, these units, through, you know, intensive, year assessment, selection and training where they will basically be thrown in areastback in very rugged and have to survive, find their way without, you know, without and without food available work their way to a compass objectives. objectives.sh a small percentage of those selected do make their way through this training. it is externally difficult. in addition, once they're out, they go through another set of

training to, to attach them to specific geographical, geographical parts of the world. will undergo language training or learn the cultures of those specific areas. host: so, before we get into where these forces are currently sent, how many there are, tell us why you wanted to do this article focused on these special ops forces. guest: so, when the deadly attack in niger happened where, for key members of special forces -- 14 members of special unit forces were killed by militants, there was a lot of questions by the public who couldn't point to niger on a map of why do we have forces there? even up there on capitol hill, there were questions from senior lawmakers about, you know, we have forces in niger?

what is that all about? indeed, there are about 800 u.s. forces in niger. the 12 man unit that was ambushed near the mali border were just a small snapshot of that. i thought it was a good opportunity to unbox exactly who special forces are, where they are situated and how they have been used since september 11. host: we are joined by time correspondent w.j. hennigan. he's here to talk about his aboutin "time" magazine special elite forces and the toll it is taking on fighters. as part of our spotlight on magazines. --ublicans can alcall independents, 202-748-8002. we have a special line if you served in special operations, you can claall 202-748-8003.

i want to read an excerpt from "at anyce, it says, given moment 8000 of the country's most elite forces including navy seals, delta force, special forces and others are operating around the globe. 2001, that-- in number was 29 hundred. in 2017, the service members have deployed to 143 countries or nearly three quarters of the nations in the world, name a country in the world's volatile regions and is likely a special operations forces are deployed there." explain the reason for that really dramatic uptick in not just the numbers of special forces but the places they're located. guest: after september 11, um, we went to war, of course. and at the vanguard of that are

the green berets. they went into afghanistan les month afterward. they teamed up with the northern alliance on horseback, the green beerets teamed up with a group out there and were able to topple the taliban in two months. that success led to the further use of special operations forces. they saw how quick it was and saw how light the footprint was. they, being the government. and decided that this was the way forward. terror threat moved around, one of the former special operations officers i quote in the story. describes it as squeezing a balloon as you put pressure on one place, they go to another place. the way that the government has subsequentt in

presidential administrations is rather than commit thousands of conventional forces, you can have this lighter footprint to pursue them. it has been successful in many places. are, becausehey you do not have that infrastructure you would have an conventional forces, they are far more at risk. and, while the conventional, when president obama brought down the conventional forces afghanistan,nd they opted, they still opted with special operations forces there. while other conventional forces somewhere or went else, and today, for instance, while we have much less conventional forces in iraq and afghanistan, from the 200,000 of today where's to there are approximately 20-

something thousand u.s. special operations forces, they have gone to far more wider array of different countries across the world. host: in your piece, it comes with graphics that show exactly where some of forces are. the majority by far are in central command based in and around afghanistan. that's 54% of all forces there. there is also the africa command, 17% of the special forces stationed there. 16% in the european command, 8% in the pacific and 4 and 1% in the southern and northern command respectively. the africa% in command which includes those stationed in niger. we have seen that, even as you mention, saw lawmakers were not aware of the presence of some of these forces there. who decides where these elite forces are sent?

guest: so, if you would've looked at that same chart 10 years ago you have seen -- you 85% ofave seen special operations forces in that centcomm region. while they have been widely dispersed, africa, which was previously 1%, has taken a lot more of those forces. to answer your question directly, the administration sets forward what their priorities are. thosethe military takes orders and then allocates troops based on that.s so, most recently, as we've seen the flareup on the korean peninsula, a lot of special operations forces have been flooding there to lay the groundwork that if something went sideways, that the u.s. and it's south korean ally would be prepared. calling inve eric

on our democratic line. good morning. caller: i'd like to ask about things happening in niger.t hose troops, were they in uniform at the time that they were attacked? first of all. i served in the navy. when we went into africa, we were not wearing uniforms because of a muslim country, first of all. second, we were attacked from 9/11 because we had troops on saudi arabia. then i believe we had holy ground, radical islam. and, therefore, in 2003, we took the troops out of saudi arabia. explain to the people why we are dropping all these bombs in afghanistan today. this is the farce, america. the media is not telling us the truth. host: let's give him a chance to

explain. guest: to the uniform question, special operations forces typically, they're not, they don't adhere to the strict uniform. i don't know what branch of the uniform you served in, i'm sure you had to be on point with you uniform. special operations forces frequently have beards and their uniforms can be a baseball cap with sunglasses. you know, it is not the typical, not what you envision when you envision a servicemember. but, as i understand it, they were in t-shirts and ball caps. they were not identifiable. they were driving trucks and toyota trucks and video calls that weren' -- and vehicles that were not clearly identified as u.s. the goals. u.s. vehicles.

there is an investigation expected to be publicly release early next year, that will lay all this bare, but it is not clear whether the militants knew the u.s. presents were alongside the nigerian partners on this patrol. but we'll find that out. in terms of why we're still dropping bombs in afghanistan, i think, um, i hear your point. about what the militants have said about u.s. presence, widespread presence. however, the threat by the taliban has drastically increased over the last, i would say, three or four years. there are other groups operating there, as well, including islamic state, or groups that have, now operate under the isis filaglag, and the stance of the

u.s. government is that we have poured in tremendous blood and treasure into that country, and to let the militants just take it over is just not going to be an option. so, that's why you saw president trump earlier this year announced a bulked up plan to tamp that down and restore some semblance of peace in the country. host: we are joined by w.j. hennigan. here to talk about his latest piece on special operation forces as part of our spotlight on magazines. again, republicans 202-748-8001. -8000.ats 748 and, if you served in special operations, 202-748-8003. now, bill, i want to read another excerpt from your

piece." over the past 16 years special operations have become the new american way of war. once mainly used to supplement the work of the conventional troops, the elite units are now the go to option for policymakers looking to manage a complicated world." talk about how their role has changed over time. host: so, guest: so, special operations forces were seen, let's just take for september 11, for example. they were the vanguard, the first ascent in to set th -- the first sent in to set the battle space for conventional forces. as time has moved on and particularly under the obama administration, who president obama came into office wanting to end america's wars overseas, they became a way, as political cover, i guess, would be an

easy way to say it, where you di dn't have to have this major footprint, you did not have to have the boots on the ground that you did in previous wars. the u.s. special operations forces would be able to handle that threat in a way that would limit your exposure to criticism m about how you used them. that is how you have seen this evolve, particularly and continue to evolve under the trump administration where there has been the deaths of 11 special operators this year in four different countries, which is the first time that has happened in our, in the command's history. host: from pittsfield, massachusetts. good morning, george. caller: i have a quick comment and a question. is oneeaker said, it thing to want to end america's

wars but when you do it in an irresponsible manner by reducing conventional troops, you kind of create this problem. so, my question is, how does donald trump's attitude towards conventional troops and the rules of engagement affect the situation, whether it is special forces or not? so, unquestionably with thereules of engagement, has been a lot written, or at least analyze, about the rules of engagement. rules of engagement are readified, but you can between the lines on bombs dropped in operations taken place overseas. i think, if you looked at those numbers, you would see a rise, particularly in iraq. in syria, there were a lot more bombs dropped in both those countries since the trump administration came in.

he also,he authorized new missions in both yemen and somalia. just in yemen, for instance, there have been over 120 airstrikes in that country just this year, which i think would surprise a lot of americans. that is more than double the mo st airstrikes that there were in the previous 10 years. also, there have been raids that have been greenlighted under this administration. and, within the first week of president trump in office, he authorized the mission to, a raid on al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, and a navy seal, ryan owens, was killed. so, i think, to answer your question, you're going to see a lot more action. that's already happened. piece, there is a

warning that the overuse of these special ops forces could be in a word " catastrophic." explain what is meant by that, and just what the peril is facing these special ops forces. guest: well, that was in context to a gao report that came out in 2015. i spoke with the author of that report, who also wrote the report on the navy, i don't know if you are familiar with the a, fourts a tt sesa accidents in the pacific command. he had command, -- he had warned, gao reports warning about the overuse of the ships out there. this year, there were the four accidents and two were deadly that resulted in the deaths of 14 sailors. when i was speaking with him, he said he felt as

though the same ingredients were there for special operations forces, and that was born out in the 2015 report any continues to follow that today. it's just that the incentives are as such for military commanders, as the administration, to use these forces because it doesn't invo eve a lot of buy-in from th american public. you are talking about 1% of 1%. there a few of us even have friends or family that serve in the military, let alone the special operations community which is even smaller. come home inpeople body bags is just, that's not turning american public opinion against the wars, because it is somebody else's problem. host: kim on the independent

line from florida. you're on with w.j. hennigan. caller: i just wanted to know, chad beingl that the on the travel ban list had anything to do with the soldiers in niger, because they heard they originally had backup from local chad military and as soon as president trump with them on the travel ban, a bunch of them pulled out and put our special ops in danger in niger. also, i wanted to comment on these special forces. they're not indispensable. i have friends that are special forces. a lot of them have been trained for 20 years. and these young people, it' going to take yearss. they're not replaceable overnight. i also have a niece that came

back from iraq and afghanistan after 8 years and killed herself in her late 20's. and they need to do something about the health care, the mental illness problem. these military people in these fields need to be getting paid more. and people, aides in the white house that have absolutely no experience. they have the hardest jobs in the world. the most physical jobs, they need to be paid way more money. they need to have benefits they can count on, not every other year the g.i. bill is being pulled, their health care being dropped and them being homeless. host: i want to give debbie j hennigan a chance to address those issues. guest: on chad, chad is a partner in fighting terrorism, and there is an array of

organizations in the, in the region there, al qaeda being one of them. isis affiliate being another. boko haram also operates in the area. say, i should to say this, my reporting indicates that i see no direct, um, connection between chad being on the travel list to what happened in niger. u.s. forces have steadily built up there in that region. so there is not, even before this. so, i would say, i have not seen yet any any connection between the two. youhe personal bit that shared with your niece, i'm sorry to hear about that.

bring a great point which is special operations forces are deployed a lot more than conventional forces. may haveical marine one or two deployments. special operations forces will have, you know, four, five, six, 10, 12 different deployments. they deploy for six months. they're at home six months and then they are out again. those six months at home are training and they are away from their family. what one family i talk about in sergeant, ou know, sergeant major chris farris, his wife was saying that he was like a visitor in the home. yes, that does take a hard toll

on the family, as well as the physical problems that come with constantly being deployed in combat, and the mental strains as well of that high adrenaline department. special operations have noticed this, their high divorce rates and they track the suicide and over the last several years, they have forces that deal with personal issues. so, it is something that is on the military's radar. host: calling from detroit on our independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: you're on with w.j. hennigan. caller: i want to address the opioid problem we have in starta and we to need to telling the troops online and broadcasting to the american people. in afghanistan, that is the poppy, opium area, the the poppy plants.

that is what we are really fighting for. and they bring it over here legal. and prescription drugs, oxycontin. the roxies, all of that kind of stuff. and then prosecute the doctors for prescribing stuff they're stealing out of afghanistan. the killing needs to stop, the lies need to stop in america. we're hurting bad. the middle-class, african-american and whites are suffering. host: i want to give w.j. hennigan a chance to address how the opioid crisis is playinga a role with special ops forces. lot abouton't know a the opioid crisis but once in i can say, directly to answer, the u.s. military has recognized that the poppy plants and the, opium harvesting has been

the lifeblood of those militant troops in afghanistan. this year, they have launched an operation to bomb these facilities, and general nicholson the force-- four star commander in afghanistan unveiled a wide range of bombing missions that took out some of these facilities. but as far as the links to the opioid crisis at home, i'm osrry -- sorry, i do not have a response to that. from north, carolina come he served in special ops. hanker: mr, hennigan, tahn you. i did. i served for 23 years and i serve now as retired. i had a quick comment and a

question. the comment was about previous caller in regards to the military and the use of special operations. it's always been tertiary with the regular military. even after 9/11, we were behind the scenes but had has become more and more as an army, as essentially -- the department of defense has tried to work more in a special operations role by utilizing even regular ground forces in special operations-type submissions. we've expanded our requirements. you start taking soldiers into other jobs they have not worked before. on close ground troops order battle that they did not used to do. things like that. i guess my question is would be, see the special

operations now becoming more of a surface force with conventional military? the military is looking to expand its role in that direction. thank you. guest: mark, you bring up a great point. so, because the special operations has been in the lead that's provided a strain on the forces itself. military understands that they need to alleviate some of that stress. that's why you see conventional forces taking on some of those responsibilities. a newstory, i talk about army brigade, they are going to be six brigades called the security force assistance for brigades, which their sole mission will be to train foreign forces, which is typically, as you know, a green beret, white navy seal mission.

so,yes. there is going to be a shift here. brigades will be moving into afghanistan to train conventional forces there. and go outside the wire with them on missions. general nicholson, as i mentioned before, he said that a proximally about 1000 of these forces will be on the ground operating with afghans after the new year here. um, so, so, then there is also some tension within the community and these new units because they will have tan berets, similar to the green beret we all know. as we move forward come i think you are going to see

conventional forces assume that, because a lot of the u.s. military's missions are going to be partnered operations, particularly in the battle against worldwide extremism. host: w.j. hennigan, "time" correspondent and author of latest time magazine piece "how america is failing its most elite forces." you can find bill at wjhen on twitter. coming up next, dr. walid gellad . and professor of health policy at the university of pittsburgh will be here to discuss the potential impacts of the proposed cvs-aetna merger. we will be right back. ♪ i came back to the district both of my uncles were sent to prison. they were convicted, one of them sexual assault and the other armed robbery. and so, for the part of my

childhood i can remember it was my mother, her two sisters, my grandmother and my cousins in the house on 13th street. >> sunday night on q&a, tiffany right, senior associate at the aboutfice talks growing up in washington, d.c., and her time as a clerk for sonia sotomayor. >> the pull the justices are looking at is really small. if you are viable candidate and you went to a really great school, you have some pretty impressive people willing to speak up for you in the form of recommendation letters. you've clerked one of a very small number of judges that routinely seeks clerks for the court. for a person of color, african-american or latina to get into that pool, there are so many obstacles to that, that it is, it becomes a real problem. i think it hurts, because the

perspective of diverse law clerks is so important. everyone at my clerkchips, there was a case where i felt like i saw something that because of my life experience that someone else did not see. >> q&a, sunday night at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. "afterwords,"t on hisgoldstar father recalls immigration from pakistan to the united states in his book "an american family, memoir of hope and sacrifice." he's interviewed by congressman jimmy panetta. >> this is a common trait, two things are really common among authoritarian mentalities and your audience can draw the conclusion, one is they don't like free press because free press criticizes them. thing is rule of law. they do not like judges, they do not like the rule of law. such at had given me

perspective of not having any civil liberties to having all of these dignities. we speak further, i will tell you what a moment it was when i went to take the both of citizenship, which every american would at least read. it means so very much and it speaks to hopefulness, the dignities that are enshrined in our constitution, in our bill of rights. >> watch sunday night at 9 p.m. histor eastern on c-span 2's bok tv. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back and join from pittsburgh by dr. walid gellad. he is the director of the center for pharmaceutical policy and prescribing at the university of pittsburgh. also an associate professor of medicine and health policy and he is here to help walk us through the impacts of the

proposed merger between cvs and aetna. dr. gellad, thank you so much for joining us today. dr. gellad: good morning. host: so, tell us, i also want to note that cvs health changed its name three years ago. in some say to reposition itself as a health care company rather than a drugstore. talk about that. talk about the significance of a major drugstore chain merging with a health care insurance provider. dr. gellad: it is a must like this transition has been happening for decades. cvs started in the 1960's as a single store. kind of been expanding its footprint since that time. the minute clinics a decade ago, and then a joint with a pharmacy benefits manager to do other things and then it added some long-term care services, and some infusion services. it changed its name and got rid of tobacco. it really has been the evolution of the pharmacy.

you set it. this is what makes it so unique atthat this happening pharmacy which is probably the first time this has happened in terms of integrating pharmacy more into the structure of health care. host: talk a bit more about wha is trying tok cvs achieve with this merger. dr. gellad: yeah, only they know, but you can, your imagination can fly in terms of what is possible for this. it can be incremental changes, it could be really what they talk about, which is really a fundamental transformation of how health care is delivered to understand you have to think a bout what cvs. for most people, it is the pharmacy around the corner but it also has a minute clinic and a pharmacy benefit management services and infusion services. you can imagine a fundamentally different way that health care is delivered, and i think that is what cvs talks about, and

that is the goal. in fact, it's something pharmacists have been talking about for a long time, finding a way to put the pharmacy more the center of all health care is delivered. host: we are talking with dr. walid gellad about the proposed merger between cvs and aetna. we have regional lines. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, 202-748-8000. ion the mountain pacific regions -748-8001. cvs in its press release gave some insight into what they merger will do with some bullet points saying that it will combine cvs's health unmatched local presence and clinical capabilities with aetna health care's benefits, providing better integration of care -- and help them make more

informed decisions. the transition expects to generate significant synergy for shareholders. and sort of, sort of putting this in the light of something that is really going to help its customers. is it really? dr. gellad: yeah. i mean, those are a lot of grand things they can happen, but it really, i mean, it really will, it can do all of those things they talk about. you can do none of those things. when you talk about cvs, which is present, there's 10,000 stores. the statistic i read was that 80% of americans live within 10 miles of a cvs and 70% live within three miles. cvs is just everywhere. and it is not hard to imagine the kinds of things they are talking about if you, for example, if you have an issue where you might call your pcp or

try to go to the doctor's office if you can go around the corner and see someone, then it's just going to be a lot simpler. imagine taking it a step further, where not only do you go to cvs and see someone but there may be telehealth services and you can telehealth and see a specialist. there's all kinds of possibilities. remember, cvs is not just a pharmacy. it is home infusion services. think about instead of going to the doctor's office to get infusions of whatever medicine it might be, imagine if they do it at home. and they won't have to pay the facility anymore. they will not have to pay the doctor. it's these kinds of synergies that they talk about and when they talk about the opportunities for the consumer, they are talking about what happens when you can get these things done around the block or a few miles from your house for the same place you buy bread or milker sunglasses. that's the potential revolution. host: rudy on the line calling

from chicago. you're on with dr. gellat. caller: merry christmas. this merger is nothing but the competitive battle of the -- walgreens and cvs. any other documented or unmet needs, there are several areas in america -- with lack of psychiatrists and thisedical specialties, merger does not talk about how they are going to generate that kind of professionalism within our medical schools, because any doctor knows at the university of illinois is the largest medical school in america. and also, the university of chicago is the largest public research center in america. this merger has no documented to address areas that are medically underserved in terms of public health issues.

or dealing with the opiate -- in suburban or regional areas. outside a major city. along with a whole question of chicagog caerre, in cvs is new to the market. this is doing nothing to curb immunization, school physicals, the kinds of services you need to have -- the trauma, the kinds of services you need in a major metropolitan area. ast: i want to get dr. gellad chance to address that. a lot ofd: you named the problems with the current health care system. he is absolutely right. if i were cvs, i would say that, again, if you have a store within three miles or around the opportunityhave the to bring a lot of services to communities that did not have them using new technology. and i think that is a reality

and that is the way the health-care care system is going in terms of telehealth services. in fact, other kinds of onnicians who can take more of the care. in some ways you can imagine this increasing access. maybe it will let hospitals focus on other things or expand and otherwise. totally right. in terms of the walgreens issue, i think that may be part of it. pharmacies are finding a way to compete and to become more central in health care system. as amazing has done h job spreading, they have taken over target pharmacies. who knows what's left? i totally agree there are a lot of problems with the health care system. this is a business vision but there are a lot of potentials to expand access for people, given these stores to where people live. host: we're joined by dr. gellad, the professor of health

management at the university of pittsburgh. he's helping us break down the proposed merger between cvs and aetna. a question that i have that i'm sure some of my viewers might this too, is how does impact consumers immediately or down the road? the closest a cvs, pharmacy to me, but i am not an aetnaw customer. will my drug costs be higher? dr. gellad: those of the questions everybody's asking and there are no answers. it depends how things are implemented kid we have already seems limitations and what pharmacies you can go to. and this is what's happened in the market. aetna already uses cvs as his pharmacy benefits manager and most people with aetna probably have a preference to go to cvs anyway. the concern is obviously that this will become more of an issue for consumers. and there are other ways that

consumers can be steered towards certain pharmacies rather than others. so, you could easily imagine and this happened at much higher cost. if you go to another pharmacy, you can imagine much higher cost of you go to a different urgent care center than the urgent care centers in cvs. it's going to be variable depending on what consumers need from cvs. theperson just walking into pharmacy may not notice any difference, but it will. anytime you have consolidation like this and integration, there is always the concern that it will decrease the choices available to consumers. the flipe flip side, side argument is that this is going to help us manage costs, reduce costs for employees. rs. make premiums less, which provides benefits for consumers. but it is a trade-off between costs and the ability to go anywhere you want. host: we talked a lot about the

motivation of cvs, perhaps other drugstores. what about on aetna's side? what is the motivation of health insurance providers in partnering and merging with drugstores? dr. gellad: yeah, and that is an excellent question. aetna tried to merge previously in it did not go through. this is a slightly different merger. but there is, there is a trend in health care of trying to integrate payers and providers. it is happening all over the place. you saw united health care doing the same thing with buying providers. ultimately, the issues that insurers have is that things are really expensive. they're trying to make money and anything they can do to lower the price of services that they have to pay for, they will make more money. one of the best ways to lower the price is to really be able to do things in a setting that is less expensive. and so, you can imagine a lot of

things that currently happen, in a hospital or the doctor's office that can be less expensive done in other settings. this arrangement really will facilitate that. aetna could make deals with cvs, but when they are under the same parent, the presumption is that there will be less berries to do that. they can do pilot programs. they can see how this works. if it does work, you can imagine the kinds of customers they would get. aetna has a lot of business in medicare and medicaid. if they're able to really improve satisfaction and lower cost whatever it might be, that is an opportunity to really grow their business. host: bill's on the line from georgia. good morning. caller: i'd just like to say that i disagree with everything dr. gellad said. number one, in markets where not not, where there's enough money, especially rural

meidicine, there have been more physicians. must the fact that the physician is a professional and provides a service and his name, customers his patients. for cvs-aetna, the patient is no longer -- there's no professionalism there. the -- the patients would be forced to use aetna products. and a may not be the best products for that patient. we lose the bond between physicians and patients. and, you know, i have one question for dr. gellad. i know he's not really thought about that issue about rural medicine. is he a paid consultant with any pharmaceutical companies? i'd appreciate hearing the answer. guest: no, i'm not a consultant for any pharmaceutical company or any pharmacy or any company. but i appreciate that question. that is an excellent question. i'm a doctor.

i completely get what you are saying. there is a special bond and a special relationship and this does have the potential to disrupt that. i don't want to minimize that or minimize that at all. and, um, in, so, let me get to that and then it will get to the issue about rural areas. a trend,e's been because you brought up a lot of issues. there has been a trend about services leaving the primary care provider's office nad practice -- and practice. and all of these things disrupt the relationship, and we have seen the minute clinics in the retail clinics, which disrupts care a little bit, all the specialization of care. and it is a challenge. but on the other hand, we have a market. and this is the way the market is going. it can be tough for patients but themately -- if it is not

most cost-effective way to seek care and that is what is going to happen in the market we have. any, you brought the issue about who is the customer? i mean, you are absolutely right large,ese are two for-profit companies. and the big concern is that, lik e any for-profit company, we might see shareholder value prioritize, in the short-term, over patients. that can happen and you do not one of minimize that. that would be a problem for patients. ultimately it is a balance between having a market we have thetrying to keep doctor-patient relationship and the patient-provide relationship. another point you brought up, let me make two more quick points about this issue of professionalism. i think pharmacists would argue vehemently maybe contrary to what you said in terms of professionalism that might be

present in the pharmacy. they really view their relationship with patience and a professional light and they have been pushing for more of a role in the care of patients, and they do it very -- view it very seriously. i think the reality is all of this is happening, and as a doctor, i think about this all the time, and the reality is what can doctors do to provide the best service and demonstrate their value in this new marketplace? the last thing about rural care , hospitals are closing in rural areas. maybe this is a way to access care. the issues around telehealth and the expansion of access through technology is one way to address the rural health problem. host: we are talking to dr. walid gellad, at the university pittsburgh about the proposed .etna-cvs centraltimern or

zone stash -- ruth from georgia. good morning. either question i would like to address about the medication you received from cvs. when you have to do the mail-order care. the medicine that you reallym has hurt bad. legs have swollen until the skin breaks, my feet hurt all over and now i have a harder time because the medicine that my doctor sent in to them, they get it from india or someplace else. and i have a terrible reaction to it. how do you address things like that if that is the only place get yourcan go

medicine and not have to pay full price for it? dr. gellad: yeah, i think that is an excellent question. i think the argument, first of all, i think you should talk to your doctor about all of these things. but the argument, i guess, to make that cvs would make is that if you have all of these issues, you can come into the pharmacy and talk to the pharmacist. pharmacist you would have more of a regular interaction with and that may help you address some of these concerns with that medicine. i do not think this is going to change dramatically all the issues you talk about in terms of where the medicines come from, how they deliver, but the argument is that when you're having problems with medicine, you can go around the corner and go back to cvs to discuss this with a pharmacist or someone who can help you address these things. can you talk about what this might portend for the future? amazon is exploring selling

medicine. might we see more of this kind of cross-section or combination of different industries sort of getting into the medical delivery business? dr. gellad: yeah. and everybody has speculated on that. that is a quite question. -- great question. some people say this is about amazon and some people say this is nothing about amazon, a progression of what cvs has don e. my own opinion is the pharmacy is the place where medicines are dispensed has been dying for years. you know, there is mail-order and mail-order pharmacies. there other ways to deliver medicines. you are no longer get it, maybe you're getting longer supplies. pharmacies have been trying to tod ways, again, to incorporate themselves more centrally into health care. think if amazon goes on to deliver prescriptions, this is yet dispensing that the

medicine part of the brick-and-mortar pharmacy will become less important, but yet the pharmacy's location and cvs is a mail order pharmacy will become more important. in fact, you saw cvs, i can't remember how long, fume i promised to have same-day delivery, a response to amazon. i think if amazon were to come into the market, it will compete on mail order discussions-- mail order prescriptions cvs, and it is something it will compete with cvs, but cvs-aetna would be a payor and be a location where care is delivered, which would give them a competitive edge they would argue against just having a mail order place like amazon. host: steve's on the line from henderson, nevada. good morning. caller: good morning. host:= go ahead. 've used the minute

clinics before and they do take a number of insurance groups, but i was concerned in whether having aetna tied with cvs, would that create a conflict of interest? i'm goingh, i guess to avoid any specific legal arguments. i am not a lawyer, but will will happen, ithat will will be an issue for other insurers if aetna and cvs are merged, that other insurance will not want you to go to cvs minute clinics and will contract with other retail clinics. med-express, some which are owned by united. in the same way we are seeing payers and providers -- merge. if you are payor, you do not want your patience you are taking care of go to a facility

owned by another provider, it is probably the same thing with these urgent care clinics. if you have aetna, they would most likely ready you go to some otheric than retail clinic and they will do that by not paying for other places you go to, or they will make you pay more if you go to other places or pay less if you go to minute clinics. wouldat is, i think that be a natural progression of what would happen here. whether it would be a conflict of interest or whether there were any legal issues, i do not really know. host: james is calling from fort myers, florida. caller: good morning. hello? host: go ahead, james. about: i am going to talk my personal relationship. i travel a lot to costa rica and the role that the pharmacist plays in costa rica is more like the cvs-aetna kind of merger.

you can actually go to the pharmacist instead of the doctor and get medicines or get diagnosed by pharmacist, within -- because they actually are a doctor anyway. and you can get, actually diagnosed by a doctor. a pharmacist and you need to see a doctor, he'll forward you onto that but there are certain things that he can do as a pharmacist, that hecan prescribed for you and he can give you certain medicines right take care of that instead of having two separate occasions where you go to the doctor and the doctor prescribes medicine and then you go to the pharmacist. in costa rica, they kind of do it a little bit like what aetn'' s trying to set up with cvs where the dr. plays a different role for more cases that are mo intensive, where the pharmacist plays another role and dispenses medicine and advice to the patient.

dr. gellad: yeah. i think you have just described hee pharmacist's dream in t united states. this is what pharmacist would like in the argument is what you say it is -- people do not have to go see the doctor. and it will be less expensive. is,what you are describing i think, what cvs would like. and the various to that have been issues around who is a provider in the united states, who gets paid as a provider and how that payments works. you can imagine if the payer also owns the pharmacy, they can set a pilot programs and arrange these cause of things. there are pharmacist are integrating themselves in the care and doing more prescribing. a primary care doctor, i have mixed feelings. there is no doubt in terms of convenience and for certain conditions, there is huge potential advantage.

and i think you can read the cvs promotional material as pie-in-the-sky, just kind of talk, or you can view it as what they really view the future's spirit i think it is the latter. i really think that this is what they are pushing for and this is what they believe can happen, and this is one way to make it happen. i appreciate your sharing your experience. that is a great point. host: radndy, you only have a couple of seconds. can you make it quick? caller: good morning, dr.. -- doctor. with all due respect, america's alth lies in the hands of schools. if we do not teach american children how to prevent their own self-inflicted wounds, diabetes or other chronic nesses, if we keep sitting on our rear ends, we will not solve any problems. host: a couple seconds to

address that quickly. dr. gellad: i agrees that the causes of all of these problems started a long time ago and they started outside the health care system. >> i think you are totally right about fixing problems before they start. find the website. you can find him on twitter. thanks for joining us this morning. guest: it was my pleasure. host: coming up tomorrow, the migration policy institute will discuss new governmental statistics that show arrests on the border are falling below record levels. we will also host the editorial page editor. the week andss

preview the alabama senate race. that's all for today's washington journal. of we'll be back tomorrow at 7:00. >> president trump heads to mississippi for the opening of the civil rights museum. it he will tour the new civil rights museum and make remarks. nooncoverage on c-span at eastern. >> today at 7:00 on book tv, former senior adviser to rex

tillerson discusses his book digital world war. king, distribution is queen and she wears the pants in the family. the way i like to think about war, we are in a content did -- war. >> greta van susteren with her book. >> in social media, everybody can get together and do incredible things. there are stories about what others have done with social media. it's not really new. all that's new is the delivery platform. smoke signals were social media. the party line, the telephone line with social media. what is di