participantsmarket are not expressing concern about the decline of the term premium. they see it as low with that judgment. much.you very >> here on c-span, newsmakers is next with them or credit congressman sander levin of michigan. that a look at what is in the final version of the republican tax reform bill, push lawmakers are set to vote on this week. that is followed by attorney general jeff sessions outlining initiatives to address violent crime. at 8:00, our conversation with historian and author thornwood wood.thorton

greta: this week on "newsmakers," we're joined by congressman sander levin, democrat of michigan given currently serves as the ranking democrat on the health subcommittee. thank you for being on newsmakers. rep. levin: glad to be with you once again given greta: in studio with as is lindsay mcpherson, a congressional reporter with rollcall and also a congressional reporter with the hill. lindsey: nice to be with you, congressman. there is a lot of news happening, and we do want to talk about the tax conference. before we get to that some of the biggest headlines lately have been about sexual harassment allegations against your colleagues, including john conyers, the colleague from michigan who resigned, and there have been new allegations in blake farenthold. do you think the members who have not yet resigned should be resigning? also you haven't been up here a , long time.

what have you noticed? is this a big problem on capitol hill? rep. levin: well, it is a problem. i think each case has to be decided on its own. but i really think it needs to be a new day here, and i think it is coming. and i think people who responsibly speak out are doing a credit to themselves and to this institution. it is not only this institution, it is lots of others. so there is a new day coming, we should all hope. greta: >> what do you mean by new day, congressman? rep. levin: what i mean is i think everybody needs to look at what our practices have been, as well as our policies. i think everybody has to understand that if we really believe in equality, that means harassment has to stop. because in many respects, it is

the opposite of equality. that is true in terms of sexual harassment, it's true in other forms, but surely with sexual harassment, i hope it is a new day. speak about the allegations, the ones that come out against them? rep. levin: i have not heard the more recent ones. i just hope each of them takes it seriously, very seriously, and makes the right decision. i have not seen the latest. but i think, as was true before to others where there were serious allegations, it was up to the member to really step up to the plate. naomi: shifting gears a little bit to the tax conference, when the house and senate each voted on their separate tax bills, there were no democrats that voted for them. do you expect when the actual

conference report comes out that democrats will be united in opposition to it? rep. levin: absolutely. this is that these two bills are atrocious. when you combine two negatives, you do not get a positive. you get a bigger, bigger negative, and i think that will be true. they have not shown it to us. they have excluded us, so the process has been bad, but the policy has been worse. i took a quote from the president's, i think it was yesterday. he said, as a candidate, i promised we would pass a massive tax cut to the everyday working american families who are the backbone and heartbeat of our country. now we're just days away from keeping that promise, and we want to give you, the american people, a giant tax cut for christmas. the giant tax cut is going to be for the very, very wealthy. according to the bills that passed, and i do not think they

will differ and they make it worse on this millions of , families, next year, 13 million are going to pay higher taxes, primarily in the middle class. 10 years from now, that figure will be 30 million paying more in taxes, while the wealthy -- and i just checked the data -- it will be for those over $1 million, they will get $73,000 in a tax cut. you know the republicans like to talk about averages, but when you break them down -- and i asked the head of joint tax to tell us what is behind the averaging, and that is what he came up with. by saying, is centrally, a lot -- essentially a lot of people , are going to be paying more taxes, especially those in the middle class, beginning a month from now, next year. lindsey: i understand you think this conference report will be a bigger negative, but we heard of things that democrats have been calling for, like keeping

the medical fenced deduction and keeping student loan interest deductibility. it will not fully repealed the estate tax. do you see some of those aspects as positive developments? are there other things you are here that are improvements from the house bill? rep. levin: i have heard that, and those will be improvements. so they are feeling some pressure. but overall, this bill is going to be the opposite of a major tax cut for middle income families. also, it is going to increase the deficit. mr. mnuchin put out a paper that even republican experts found was unbelievable. essentially, the deficit is going to increase by $1 trillion, and all of a sudden, the republican who used to worry about deficits are saying taxes will pay for themselves. that is a myth. it has been proven in recent times. and also they are saying that growth will take care of the increase in the debt.

but joint tax says, what is going to be the increase in growth of the next 10 years? their estimate is .8%. you divide that by 10 or however you want, and essentially, they are not telling the truth as to who will benefit, and they are grossly, grossly misstating what the realities are as to the national debt and their hope for growth. they, more than anything else, want a tax bill because they have not accomplished anything else. it is desperation. so that is why the republicans are pulling together, even those who have deep doubts about this, because they figure if they fail on this after failing on other things, then they are going to lose the election next year. essentially, what is driving this is politics.

it's haste which makes waste, and that policy will turn out to be bad politics. i am convinced of that. naomi: something that has come up is democrat's are pushing for republicans to kind of delay the work on the tax bill until after doug jones, who won the special election in alabama, is seated, but those efforts seem to have -- republicans have not been very receptive to that. is that something you guys will continue to push, and do you think you guys might make any headway there? rep. levin: we learned long ago that you cannot push against a wall. you keep pushing what is behind the wall. you keep pushing as to what is really the truth. but we are not going to move them. they think this is the 2018 election. but when people wake up to what the facts are -- and the same is true as to the continuing

resolution. here we are just a few days away, december 22 it runs out, andy republicans essentially do not know where they are going and what is at stake. community health centers. the chip program has not been renewed, and states a running out of money. states a running out of money for children's health. so much -- disaster relief. as i remember, the disasters happened not a week ago, they happened long ago. puerto rico and the islands, and florida and houston. and here we sit. the republicans think they can jam a cr through, and if we vote no, they are going to blame us. one the ones to blame are the ones who are in control. lindsey: congressman, you

mentioned a bunch of year-end issues. when you did not mention is the daca program that helps these young dreamers. democrats have been pushing hard to get that done by the end of the year. do you think that that is feasible? and if so, how far do you think democrats will go to get it done before the end of december? rep. levin: i wanted to take that separately because it is so compelling. you know, the republicans act as if they have never met a dreamer. as if they do not know the stories. or if they know them, they do not seem to care. we're talking about 800,000 people. people who came here as young children in the vast majority of cases, and they have shown themselves not only to be dreamers, but to begin in hundreds of thousands of cases, to fulfill the american dream. the american dream. and the republicans just seem to

say to them, well, stay in suspense. it is frightful. it is insensitive. it is insensitive. and i hope, essentially, that the republicans, maybe in their dreams, will begin to think about the dreamers. but also, i hope they will go back home. we are going home this weekend. and then after for the holidays. i hope when they go home, they talk to people if they haven't acted but we should act now. , we should act now. and the stories about people being picked up out of the blue because their parents brought them here, it is the opposite of what i think america is all about. greta: lindsey: you talk about them

going home, so it sounds like you are saying we should act now, but you seem a little resigned that it will not get done before the end of the year. is that accurate? rep. levin: no, i am not resigned. lindsey: how does it get done? are democrats willing to vote against the spending bill? rep. levin: i do not think the camera can show this, but we're going to put our foot down. i do not think the camera caught that. we're going to put our foot down. both feet. also, we are going to speak out. i am going home. i will be home this weekend. and i hope to talk further to dreamers and tell their stories. immigration policies of this administration are atrocious. i'll bring up another example. they picked up 110 iraqi christians, people who came here in most cases 12 to 20, 30 years ago. as far as we can determine, of the 110, but some have had

children that are american citizens. out of the blue they pick them up and they are now in detention. one of them said to me, i will go back if they ship me back on a plane and i can afford to buy a taxi or rent a car, but i have no place to go. i have not been there for 25, 30 years. i am an american. that is what the dreamers are saying. they are saying we are americans. many of them have been in college. many of them are working. many were leaders in the class. but whatever, they feel like they're part of the american reality, and the american dream, and now we want to essentially say we are going to leave you hanging out there. as i said before, we're going to put both feet down and speak out

again, as we come that on , monday. naomi: you mentioned politics a lot. how confident are you that democrats will take control of the house again after the 2018 election? rep. levin: i am increasingly confident and i will do everything i can. i indicated that after being years, next year i would not run for reelection. i have my preferences to who would succeed me. but i am confident, and i am going to do everything i can. i want to sum it up this way -- we have found out what it is like to be in the minority. you mentioned these issues like dreamers. if we were in the majority, this would have been remedied long ago. we talked about health care, chip. that would have been remedied long ago. i am going to go home and have

meetings this weekend with people who are really involved in enrolling people, and the deadline, unfortunately, has been cut short. they are going to talk about what enrollment in health care has meant. and the pace has increased these last days, these last weeks. but unfortunately, the administration cut the enrollment in half. so we may end of with fewer people, but the rush to enroll shows that health is so vital. and the republicans now, in this bill, are going to make it more difficult for people to get health care. and if their bill passes, it is going to lightly increase the premiums, especially for older people. so this tax bill is bad all around. and the wealthy get most of the

benefits, while the very wealthy, those who are not wealthy at all, the middle class, are going to get a small piece of it. we even talked about other parts like a pass-through, and that provision will provide mostly health for wealthier people, and it is going to be abused because people are going to shift back and forth to take advantage to a lower tax cut. so they are going to move from noncorporate to corporate structures, i think. haste in this case is not only going to bring about waste, it is going to bring about real uncertainty. and mainly the haste is going to benefit a relatively few in terms of most of the value. greta: we have about 10 minutes left. naomi: on taxes, i know one thing you have been pushing for for a number of years was to end the carried interest tax, and president trump had said during the campaign he wanted to get rid of that, too.

but that does not look like it is part of the bill. how frustrating is that for you? rep. levin: oh, it is so frustrating. carried interest means that the people who are putting together deals essentially pay a lower tax than people who wait on tables. if they did fairly well. or others who provide services. people, they are providing services, and instead of paying regular taxes, they have been paying the capital gains tax. it is outrageous. a number of republicans have said so, including the president. but this is an example of the president saying one thing and really it is not happening. i am not sure he government it. -- not sure he ever meant it. i got so disturbed when he said, i promise we will pass a massive tax cut for everyday working american families who are the backbone and the heartbeat of

our country, and now we're days away from keeping that promise. that is not true. he is not keeping his promise. greta: congressman, republicans point to, and the president has, as well, the reaction of the stock market. that they say the reaction in the stock market reflects a thinking that this tax cut will trickle down into our economy and mean growth for the u.s. economy. rep. levin: two things. first, the stock market has been going up for a number of years. so i do not think, as much as the president wants to take credit, he should not take credit for what happened under president obama and what has continued to happen because of president obama's policies. that is an important point that has to be made.

second, let me say a word about growth. the people who have looked at this they that this notion that tax cuts will promote growth, history shows the opposite. the joint tax committee that is neutral, and the head of it is essentially fronted by the -- appointed by the republicans, has said that over 10 years, the increase in growth will be .8%. when you divide that into 10 years, you can see it is infinitesimal. so he is taking credit for things he is not responsible for. i hope he will acknowledge his role and things he has said and he has done. and the election in alabama, i think, is the most recent example that he now says, well, kind of forget it. when he supported someone who

was so, according to what has come forth, his conduct was so outrageous, if true, and the people who have spoken say, believe us. but the president, apparently, did not believe these people. so i think this president has adopted policies and said things that are really dangerous to this country. lindsey: congressman, a quick follow up. you talked about your retirement, and you have mentioned you have thoughts about who will succeed you. can you tell us who that is? and on health care, there is the medical device tax and others that will kick in the next year, where other democrats on that issue? rep. levin: as to the first, my son andy, who is a green energy

entrepreneur and put forth, i think, the strongest job training program anywhere in this country, is exploring whether he would run for governor but has decided to run in the ninth district, and i think he is immensely talented. but he will run on his own merits. he was a labor organizer and now a business entrepreneur. let me just say a word -- i guess we have to finish -- about these health issues. here is a problem, whether democrats are on some of these bills or not, we insist to people that we pay for these things, and some of these so-called health extenders, if that is what they are calling them, would cost $40 billion to $50 billion, and a do not want to pay for them? a lot of us democrats -- and this goes back previous to this new fight we are having -- we said pay for these major, major

provisions. there was an $800 billion tax bill last year, and a lot of us voted no even though it had some provisions that we liked, like the child tax credit improvement. because $800 billion unpaid for adding to the deficit, and i just want to emphasize what happens when you increase the debt this way. eventually it comes down to programs that people need, like education programs or health programs or medicaid. because the proposals from republicans are to cut medicaid. they have proposed to cut medicare by over $400 billion. so we increase the deficit that much, and essentially the republicans say you need to cut out or cut down programs that matter to people. education.

in michigan education is becoming so expensive, and the state is playing less and less a percentage of the cost. this deficit, federally, is going to impact the programs that all of us very much rely on. so the debt has consequences, including interest that we have to pay on it. and the republicans who voted to increase the deficit then say you need to cut the programs that people need as they work hard. greta: we have time for one or two more questions. naomi: when it comes to taxes, republicans have already said they probably plan on doing a technical corrections bill at some point after the main tax bill passes. do you think democrats will be willing to work with republicans on that? rep. levin: two things. first of all they completely , shut us out. i have been at conferences which were real, and i have worked with republicans on bills that

mattered. they shut us out. that is number one. number two, i think there will have to be many technical corrections. i am going to be around here fighting next year. my prediction is that they are going to have to pick up a lot of the mess because there is so much uncertainty in this bill. i mentioned the pass-through. nobody knows how they are going to work and how much taxpayers will try to shift. the same is true of international taxation. they have a provision that if you move overseas you are going , to pay a lower tax rate than if you kept your business here. so it will not only be technical corrections. we will keep fighting and point out not the imperfections or the flaws, but the deep, deep, deep problems with this tax bill that mainly benefit the very wealthy instead of middle-class taxpayers. it is opposite of what the

president says, and many republicans. i challenged them yesterday, on thursday, wednesday at the conference committee. all we were doing is talking about averages but do not tear them apart and say, how many people are going to pay more in taxes? as i said, next year it will be under the two republican bills. 13 million people are going to pay more taxes, primarily middle-class taxpayers. so this bill is so, so off-base that we are going to have to go back next year, and i will be very much active on the ways and means committee trying to remedy but i think the tax bill is , beyond remediation. we need a democratic house and a democratic senate after the 2018 elections to really do tax reform that benefits the middle class of america and promotes real growth.

greta: congressman, despite your opposition and opposition from democrats, it sounds like you think this passes in the house and the senate. rep. levin: i think they are so desperate that they will push people on the republican side to vote for it. i think essentially this is a product of desperation and not deep back and forth. so i assume desperation will be the mother. it is likely the mother of passage of a bill that is contrary to the interests of this country. greta: congressman sander levin, democrat of michigan, we appreciate your time. thank you for being this week's newsmaker. rep. levin: thank you so much. greta: let me turn to our reporters. you heard the congressman said they will pass it out of desperation. what do the numbers look like

right now for next week? lindsey: i cover the house primarily, and it looks pretty good in the house, despite everything we have heard. it sounds like the individual tax cuts are going to be expiring. in the senate bill, house republicans and conservatives have said they do not want 20%. they want a full repeal of the estate tax. they are not getting any of that. but there like, well you know, we really need to get this done. they are acknowledging that, as well. they see some overall benefits that just going forward. it is looking good in the house. i will let naomi speak to the senate. naomi: i think it will go through the senate, as well. when the senate passed its own version of the bill earlier in the month, all but one republican voted for it. the one who did not, bob corker, had concerns about the deficit. i think those concerns he will continue to have. for the most part, other

senators seem to be on board on the gop side. a key question is the timing of the vote. you have republican senators, john mccain and cochran if a been -- who have been ill. i think their offices said he will be ready to vote on the bill next week. greta: will senator corker be a yes? naomi: i do not think he has made a decision, but his concerns about the deficit are probably not likely to be addressed in the final bill. greta: so it sounds like it could be a tie then? they still would have 51. they are obviously not going to wait to best wait for doug jones to be sworn in the obviously. lindsey: the vice president announced he will be sticking around for the vote and not going to the middle east during -- in case they need him to break a tie he will be there. ,greta: who could be the

republican they can lose? naomi: susan collins has said she will wait to see what the final bill looks like. there were things she had been pushing for to get in the bill that looks like they will be in there, like changes to medical expenses the election, state and local tax reduction. uction. on the other hand, she has also had concerns about repealing the individual mandate in obamacare without taking other steps to stabilize the health insurance market. she has gotten a commitment from senate leadership on her priorities on stabilization, but the house filed a spending bill that did not include those measures in it. so i think she remains to be seen a little bit there. she also has not been a fan of lowering the top rate for individuals, and it looks like a final bill is going to do that.

greta: any democrats going to vote in the house or senate for this bill? lindsey: after the last house bill, a democrat from texas said he would consider voting for the final bill. he had been considering it on the house the. you thought overall that the bill benefiting corporations more than individuals. he said he was willing to look at the final product. if distribution does not change, i doubt he will. there were a few moderate, fiscally conservative democrats that were open to working with -- open to looking to vote. . greta: joe manchin and one other -- greta: in the senate? naomi: joe manchin and one other expressed some potential interest before in taking a look at this, that they do not vote for the senate bill. i am not sure very much has changed. greta: what impact do you think a passage of this tax reform bill could have on the fractions

-- factions within the gop on the house side? does it bring them together? temporarily. things change really quickly. they're about to, like their plan to pass this full year appropriations bill. chuck schumer said we have to vote to block it. it's not quite clear what the senate will send back to them. they might get a temporary tax reform although i would argue that the bill tracks more the senate. like i said earlier there are things they're losing on that. so i think they might be a little lead for christmas a little more upset about the spending issue. both.nk you appreciate the conversation. > thank you.

>> president trump is back in shington after spending part of the weekend, before entering the white house he spoke briefly to the media. the first question had to do th recent reports of the mueller investigation obtaining e-mails. he was also asked about the house of years senator john mccain and whether mueller investigation he planne to fire special counsel mueller o which he responded no. [inaudible] >> not looking good. it's quite sad to see that. my people are very upset about it. i can't imagine there's anything on them, frankly, there's no collusion whatsoever.