. c-span's washington journal, live beginning at 7:00 a.m.. join the discussion. the house and senate could vote on the tax reform bill on tuesday. here's more about what is in the bill from today's "washington journal." this is about one hour. steve: sunday roundtable looking at the plant. joining us is andy greene, managing director for economic policy at the center for american progress. and, grover norquist. grover, let us begin with you. will it simplify america's tax code? grover: it will simplify it will reduce it. it is both tax reform, which means a lot of the complications but was there goes away,

also how we deal with international competition, which was damaging to the united states -- much of that gets fixed. it is tax reform like the bipartisan 1986 tax reform fix, but his rate reduction progrowth . the president and speaker ryan said that you can do your taxes on a postcard. will that be the case? can.r: 80% to 90% right now, two thirds of americans use the standard induction. i do not have to itemize their deductions. 95%.will go up to at least 90% of americans will have the benefit of it. the do not need to, because they get a larger standard deduction before doubling it. so yeah, it will be easier for most people. some will have more complicated ones family like. there's more to be done. happenexplain what will to the alternative minimum tax for individuals.

not corporations, but individuals. grover: we hope to abolish it completely. because of senate rule constraints, we were not able to. i think we should get rid of it, because any tax consultation it camet can start -- down to h29. it does not make me feel good because can grow back again. right now, it is not completely gone, but i believe eventually it will be. it is gone for 99% of the people. steve: what is not in the built that you wish was included? grover: we take the worldwide tax system, in which the united states is unlike any other place, whereas if you were french and you take money to the united states we tax it. person, if your earn money in france, they taxi,

we taxi. it. for is the real reason taking corporate rates down. even obama talked about doing that during his presidency. he did not do it, but he talked about it. we did that for individuals. who earn, individuals money in france and pay french and american taxes, you are much less likely to hire an american than a german or brick. you do it for individuals. to a my hope that we go territorial tax system for individuals. 5 million people get hit by that. it is something that makes us less competitive worldwide. steve: andy, why opposed? andy: this bill is not tax reform.

upwardeficit exploding, transfers of wealth from ordinary working americans to the very wealthy and largest companies. programs anditical investments that the federal government makes to make our economy competitive, to give us a livable society, and exposes them to cuts and deductions. this further increases the concentration of economic power in america in the increasing amount of monopolies that we are already seeing, because it takes companies that are doing largest amount of business around the world and gives them a massive tax cut. smallvery little to businesses and american entrepreneurs who are competing in doing their best. steve: let us take the corporate tax rate first. the argument is that if we do not do that, we will lose businesses. that the reality is bill as designed incentivize is companies to ship jobs overseas.

rather than closing the loophole companies were using to, you know, merge abroad and transfer headquarters, this opens that up by -- you know, it you claim our tax and invest abroad, experts believe it is easily doable. i think it is the opposite. steve: michael bloomberg said this and appease. he is calling the tax piece a trillion dollar blender. waiting on a tax cut to jumpstart the economy or handout raises. it is. fantasy to think that it will lead to higher wages or growth. he says that congress did what it always does -- but politics first. the treasury department claimed to have staffers on hand. if that is the case, they must of been hard-pressed.

what was released is a politically driven document that amounts to economic malpractice, and so does the bill itself. bloomberg's criticism is nonsense. there are two things that helped on job creation. several, really, but two big ones. full business expensing. in the united states today when it invest in a new plant, depreciates over 10, 20, 30 years. you do not get your money back. if you spend $1 million on new trucks for your company, you do not pay taxes on that million because it is nonprofit. -- it is not profit. you just spent it. and you do not have to wait 10 or 20 years for to appreciate.

it makes an investment for new job creation less expensive to do the same thing. the governmentd, takes $35 out of the 100 dollars that you earn. that is the decision you make. a 22% increase in your after-tax cash flow. investing in the united states -- this is not just for americans, but for people overseas who want to create jobs invest lesscan expensively because the changes in the tax code, and you get higher rates of return. but does helpful things to the stock market. one of the reasons that bloomberg and other democrats criticize that the bill will fall apart is that everybody who has a 401(k) or an ira can look at them every month or quarter and see the value of their mores increase

dramatically, as well as looking at their taxes that they pay and withholding. people's withholding will go down starting in february. the tax cut itself will take effect on january 1. if it is less expensive to invest in more productive and profitable, you will see more investment in the united states. i was just in europe. swiss bankers were saying that capital will leave europe in go to the united states, whereas in the past americans would send money overseas. europe has lower business taxes than we do in the united states. their marginal tax rates are in the 20's. we are at 35, highest in the world. steve: this is from the weekly standard. note that the middle class is not being fleeced. estimates of the tax bills affect on income groups have been mostly ignored in media coverage.

when the data are used, they are cherry picked to create familiar impressions. perception, the bill will cut taxes for the majority of americans at every income level. andy: the reality is that over time this is a ratchet. the tax cuts go away for the middle class. in fact, the middle class will end up paying more taxes. steve: grover, is that the case? grover: this is interesting. critics of the bills -- critics of the bill show that higher income groups pay more in taxes and get less of the tax cut than the middle and lower income groups. that is the government's own numbers. is congressional government actually hostile to the government over time, and is not doing us any favors. overs hostile to the bill time, and is not doing us any favors. why is it 10 years? way this bill had to be drafted in order to pass with 50 votes.

there are no democratic votes for tax reform. they took themselves out of the conversation of any tax reform at all before anything was done. here is our letter, we are not playing along. but then, we have to pass it with 51 votes. that means that you can only do things over. at 10 years. that is what happened with the bush tax cuts. and that is what is going to happen. about theats talk tricky amendment used to go after the republicans to make middle and low income taxed elections permanent. they know it is substantial tax reduction for middle income americans, and it will be permanent. do you believe for a moment that

even the democrats will be able to do that? obama could not stand up and stop making them permanent, and as long as we have a republican house and senate over the next few years, that will happen. andy: the benefits are to theovertibly going wealthy and those with top incomes, as well as large corporations. over time, it will reduce benefits for middle-class families, but it leaves them in place for corporations. one has to wonder whose priorities are being played out across the street here. to yourthis comes down vision of what creates jobs and economic growth. if you believe corporate profits are not high enough and that they need more profitability to invest and create jobs, then

this tax bill is right for you. if you believe that more competition via cracking down on monopolies in making sure there are stronger safety nets and investments in education and infrastructure in research and development in things that create a middle-class economy, then this tax bill is not for you. when president barack obama raise taxes on the very wealthy, the economy continued to grow during that time and the challenge is that we're going

down the wrong path here. draw yournt to attention to this article beginning with the words -- most americans know the republican tax bill will widen inequality by lavishing grace on corporations and the wealthy while taking and if its way from the poor and the middle class. many do not realize growing inequality helped to create this bill in the first place. guests: i think it is incontrovertible that the very in washington,st d.c., want a tax cut. those are very wealthy individuals. very large donors. he knows who are members of the cabinet and elsewhere. e estate tax lowered. it is a tiny fraction of the american people but it is important we have things like that to prevent an aristocracy

in this country like they did have in europe when our country was founded. so those who get the biggest benefits are arguing hardest for that. companies havet gotten bigger. and the benefits are greater than ever. are andy greene and grover norquist. our phone lines are open. (202) 748-8001, republicans. , democrats.00 send us a tweet and join in on the conversation at facebook. derek joins us from minnesota. good morning. caller: i have a couple of points. one is that we haven't heard anything about the national debt when obama was in office for

eight years. i have called on this program and they say it is overblown but you are saying $1.5 trillion over 10 years? 10 years. $1.5 trillion. the national debt will go up $10 trillion over that time. so i don't want to hear that this will expose debt. host: andy greene? guest: in the obama time, we heard tremendous amounts about how we can't raise the deficit a penny because the debt is going to kill us. and it stopped investments that would have helped america recover for more quickly but they were stymied for six years under the republicans in congress and now, senator corker says oh, well, when trillion

dollars, that doesn't matter. i just find it the height of accuracy. guest: we did increase the debt dramatically during the obama recovery we had a during which participation fell. during everybody else's recovery, more people enter the job market and more people started to work. so when people talk about the unemployment number dropping, have a good chunk of that was people looking for work and they were discouraged workers. but as to the question of the debt, our goal should be to reduce the total government spending. soreduce the personal income we don't have the government take the money and run lives for

them. it's your money and your work keeping thisok at thing in mind. if the government grows at 3% here. versus 2% what we had during obama. be at 3% and not at 2% or below. atif you grow at 3% and then 2% over the next decade, you will have more people working. that is the congressional budget offices own number. so the most avoidant thing we can do to get the deficit down is to reduce debt. to have strong economic growth. under reagan we had 4% growth which was helpful and important. and it brings in more revenue and it allows you to not have a

deficit and then we have republicans taking the house and senate when bill clinton spent what he wanted to spend. and we had strong economic growth. legit surpluses. and so the idea that there is any sort of debt or deficit the added suggests that you think grow by .4%will over a decade. use static modeling, you would have a deficit. and on top of that he will see everything else the same with deficit reduced because we have more than .4%. green, your response to this comment?

saying that only three people are happy. and1%, the trump supporters the democratic congressional candidates. guest: they will regret this in two ways. the american people are very unhappy about this tax cut bill. it increases taxes on the middle class. and they will show that. in elections coming up. and they will also regret this because there will finally be proven wrong on a lot of the claims they make about how cutting taxes to the very wealthy and large corporations will drive growth. if you go back to the evidence and compare what happens in the states, look at what happened there. california,versus bill clinton increased taxes on the wealthiest and the growth numbers in the economy are stark and incredible. in 2015, california grew by 2.9%.

so we can go further back in the numbers. host: share your comments on our facebook page. guest: can i address that question? you have the three people who benefit? 2015illion americans in were hit with the obamacare tax passed with penalties because they didn't want to guy -- they didn't want to buy government priced insurance. they said fine, we will claim $100 for a family of four. this was no government service, just a penalty. but that's your problem. notmillion americans will eat screwed by the government.

more than 1% of the population. and those are people who cannot afford to be manhandled by the government like that. has been a lot of talk about corporations for the first time. since 1931. we decided that half the country proprietorshipe or proprietorship, a d corporation. half of the country. or more than half of the country works for a corporation and for the first time they get a reduction in the rate that they pay. anda raise their rate impose taxes on the corporations. he raised those taxes. finally, the 28 million --ricans -- that is not 1%

28 million people, some of them married and some of them with kids, they will all see lower taxes because this tax reform package decides that not just corporations gets tax cuts but those passed through partnerships and companies also do. and you have lower rates. this is a very important collection. the first $29,000 of what you sorry, the first $24,000 of what you earn is at a 0% tax rate. bloomberg doesn't care about people who make $20,000 or $30,000 but those people pay a lot of their taxes. this is what they said about the reagan tax cuts and every time we want to reduce taxes, this is what they say and they have been wrong. host: here at the table is .rover norquist and andy green

lois, you have been patient. thank you for waiting. er: i want to say that i am 76 years old and i have watched this seesaw for quite a long time. republicans come in and give tax breaks to the wealthy and the american people say oh my goodness, and then they put a democrat in. but then there is no money. there is no money. so democrats have to raise taxes. it is a seesaw that goes on all the time. grover norquist has been hanging around trump too long because he is lying through his teeth. guest: if there is something i said that you don't understand,

we can go through that but name-calling is not grown up. your view on this, dave? caller: i hate it. i watched trump speak the other day about how jobs will start pouring in the country they're coming in by the thousands and those are his words. is company from germany that contracting a company in china to build a piece of equipment that is, located so we had to ane guys to come over as engineer. smarter than smart. and he worked with us for 12 days. i got the bill for his labor the other day. degreed engineer who knows what he is doing and the bill was $1200. $50 a day.

so this is not going to do anything to solve that. companies are not going to come over here. i hate to call these lies but every time trump speaks with us he is exaggerating. and the thing of it is that we are not even addressing that. and they say companies will pour over here? grover norquist. tea party guy, right? isn't it the pinnacle of hypocrisy what we talk about putting the debt on our grandchildren? do you remember the mantra we all marched to? guest: your mixing several things together. madew wages or what economies do well then we would be doing very well. what is important is productivity. the more productive workers are then the higher incomes and

higher wages we are in, and that is this tax plan. business investments trying to get people more equipment to computers ander better machinery at lower costs, in order to make them more productive so they can make more money. and they can compete with companies in other countries with lower wages. the problem is that we have billions of dollars going from billionaires out of the country. and we have a problem with the governments that at the state and local level tax businesses too much. people are leaving high tax states and states with no income taxes, people are moving to their. people are saying that they prefer, starkly and dramatically.

they thought about doing something different but they didn't. they kept spending too much. so we have a real challenge in how we become more effective. down soto keep taxes that we get more productivity and growth. host: this is from rebecca, a tweet. "with mounting debt, we will begin to look like greece. the rich will take their money and run." about to go back and talk that tax cutst will spur business investment doesn't hold up in the environment of week competition and the wide availability of borrowing?

guest: thank you for bringing that up. this is the big argument between demand-side. the challenges we need to make sure is that we have to make sure they have more money and when they have more money, it will trickle down to everyone else. -- i didn't interrupt you. the law of economics says that when there is more money in people's pockets and there's competition out there between large corporations, people draw down prices and it will increase. so will be a scene for years is record corporate profits. we have seen them hidden offshore. and the economy america has been improving but not enough because we have not been investing in

the middle-class economic security. so i want to go back to something that grover norquist did say. the tax onbout health care. and getting rid of that in the bill. and what that actually is that this very tiny individual mandate will result not in having people's health care insurance cost go down but actually having health care insurance premiums go up. will have people higher and more expensive health care. and again, i'd like to go to a number of other things where these companies are not taxed at a corporate level. they are directly taxed at an individual level. so providing tax cuts at the individual level simply more of the taking

of corporate profits and put it in your pocket rather than investing in and being a participant in a civil society to a governmental investment make an educated and healthy and cooperative economy. host: i want back to my previous question. whether or not the tax bill makes this more simple. they say it does not pass the postcard test. it leads nearly every large tax break in place. it creates new preferences for -- keeping corporate accountants busy. guest: it's true. the pass-through loophole is the most egregious example of the tax bill. the examples, we have seen them in newspapers. companies and farm

equipment companies, debating over getting rid of the structure, whether or benefit or not. and a want to talk about low wages of productivity. we talk about a dollar here or a dollar there but at the end of the day it is about broader incentives. having an economy where ,orporations are accountable there has been massive amounts of consumer fraud recently where mandatory arbitration clauses cannot bring anyone to court. to hold them accountable. and if you want to live in a place with an economy where people don't have rights and where corporations can run , that is an economy like china. suspect groveri norquist doesn't like to listen

to. host: and other question through a tweet saying, if money trickles down, where does it go? good morning. call code good morning. here in north carolina, lowe's home improvement just sent close to 300 high-tech i.t. jobs to india. indiana, the deals that the president and the vice president made with carrier is falling apart. leaving bys are january 11 so happy new year's to them. and nobodyion is, seems to be old answer this, is trump going to be the example and bring back his factories from china? and how about his daughter?

is his daughter bringing back the factories from china? nobody can seem to answer that question and it would be great to lead by example. he says all these companies are going to bring the jobs "pouring back." but i just read yesterday that 12,000 people were laid off at ge. it is a con job. he is a con artist. paul ryan has admitted he is going after medicare and medicaid. you can find it on c-span. host: we will get a response. entitlements in 2018, where is that? guest: every year, you get to do a budget reconciliation package

that you could pass with 51 votes. parties were in a different place in 1986. many democrats helped to write and vote for the tax reform package. the top marginal tax rate was 28%. today, when you take the top to 37%, nine% down .oints higher than it was they have moved so far to the left that they can't be part of what they voted for in 1986 with the lower rate for individuals. so you have to work through a budget reconciliation package. and that will be in april. they will be dealing with the means test and entitlement. if a democrat tells you that

republicans are going to change social security, they are lying to you. it requires 60 votes. and the democrats are not cooperating so they cannot be part of it. social security is off the table. any democrat or person in the press who tells you that is lying to you. i talked to paul ryan ryan about what they're looking to do. they're looking to block welfare programs, going out to the state. as clinton did. states were able to increase the money to help poor people and people got jobs and did better with those jobs. state.are reform to the it was successful under bill clinton.

tax reform, he was brave and he said he was going to do it. and there isn't a clinton wing of the democrat party anymore so they will not be supportive of the welfare reform that at one time, they could support. republicans will do welfare thatm and we will look at to make sure that able-bodied men are told that you have to go to work. if you want help. so those are needs-based programs. california,in california can go crazy. the money will be up to them. michigan for the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. bill is sos

important that it should be voted on by the people and not congress or the president. just put it out the way it is so we can all read it or look at it on the internet and vote for exactly what we want instead of what they want. code i do think people will be able to make a decision and it is the election in 2018. and if you go back and looked back at what happened in 2004, the last time republicans did something similar with george w. -- what you saw is a wave in 2006 because the results were not there. there was a series of tax cuts to lower the rate from the wealthy, just like we do in this bill, it cut corporate rates for

companies putting profits overseas and the problem in 2004 was that there would be more investment here in america. we're going to create jobs but in 2004, the top beneficiaries the offshore tax holidays did is that they cut jobs in the u.s. and they handed out record increases in our backs and shares and evidence to executives and the very wealthiest shareholders, those doing well. so i think the evidence is that people don't like that. they don't think that is a priority that they need. and they would much rather have investment education with them for structure and everything they can do to compete with china that are making those investments. of losingre at risk

jobs. andy green and grover norquist. this is something you told the -- the when you drop after-tax cash flow of every american corporations that will do positive things for people's 401(k)s and iras and most american families are in the stock market. are they? guest: yes. most have defined pensions. all government workers in utah have defined pensions. the military is moving in that direction as well. we don't want to end up like detroit where the government promises you things but the money isn't set aside for them.

americans --ore they have 401(k)s and health savings accounts and flexible savings account and are in the stock market. and one of the reasons the democrats are having hysteria over this bill is because they know that at every month you will be old to look at the value of your 401(k) and ira and you will continue to see it go up as it has. the economy recognizes what helps the economy. a lot of the regulations that obama and his agencies put it, that were destructive to the -- a tremendous jump in the stock market and it has continued to grow. taxwith the enactment of

reform, watch next year and keep track of how door life savings increase. is pay lower taxes which helpful and good. but your life savings will increase. and the biggest winners will -- will be people who get jobs. we want to create more jobs in the united states. i don't want to take a job in china and move it here. we need more jobs and higher wages in the united eights which means we need lower taxes on all businesses. i love that democrats has started to attack -- 28 million americans being told that the tax cut you are getting is a bad idea. the wall street journal focused on the debt.

-- donald trump and congressional leaders take what he calls a politically convenient but risky task in the drive to overhaul taxes. here's a summary of what is in the republican tax bill moving through the house and senate. it includes the corporate tax rate dropping. the top individual tax rate from 39 point 6%. it increases the standard that auction for all who take deductions. as this is get a 20% discount of individual tax rates. the alternative minimum tax rate is lower. taxes arelowered -- cap at $10,000. let's go to ray.

caller: i am as happy as a clam about the tax bill. survivor.bamacare i worked in the hospitality industry for 20 years. in, --n obamacare came over c-span. our owner was forced to cut everybody's hours to 28 instead of 40. that, i hadtop of some crappy insurance policy. how is this good for me? guest: i think we need to do a

lot more to make health care affordable and hold companies and executives accountable to do right by the workers. it sounds like you had somebody who was not doing right by the workers there. think we need to do a lot more to bring down rates of insurance. rather than increase them. now,bill being proposed cutting taxes for the wealthy, it will increase health insurance premiums or those who need it most to be affordable. so there is a lot more we need to do. host: you mentioned that democrats are not supporting the and republicans did not support the affordable care act. what will it take for the two parties to come together and compromise on the issues? legislatively? guest: the two parties are moving in a different direction. the republican party wants to have lower taxes and less

control on your life and the democrat party wants to impose on you and tell you what kind of health insurance you want. with obamacare, you were told that it was going to save you thousands of dollars on health care but it actually went up by that much. so they don't how to keep prices down. there were going to try to stop lawyers in hospitals. -- talk to your doctor and ask a much they have lawyers. to pay wheny have your doctor has to pay higher fees and your fees will get higher as well. the democrats are wedded so much to the needs and not to patients.

keep the prices down? it is a major challenge. guest: we're talking about the tax cuts. hillary clinton was clear what she wanted. no one got a tax rate reduction. no one. not low income people and no one. sheena came out in favor of a soda pop tax. tax on the people. and a wage tax. and she said she would sign the. so she was willing to raise taxes on poor people and middle income people. everybody. and $1 trillion that she admitted to with tax increases that she didn't spell out how much they were. green.ndy

guest: the affordable care act help 20 million people get insurance. the american medical association has a post and all associations have vigorously opposed every effort coming out of washington in the past 12 months to try to repeal it. clinton's taxk at plan, you will find that they were exclusively about raising taxes on the very wealthiest. taxes and the social security thing, that is closing the loophole that allows the wealthiest folks to not pay payroll taxes that everybody else pays. so i think this is really a question about, what is your vision for the role of government in society. beit a government that will invested in you?

a government that will be there to make sure you have education for your kids and access to college and the ability to have higher affordable care act? a healthy environment? all of those things require government investment. and they require government setting the rules. as opposed to running roughshod over ordinary families like it has done repeatedly through history. roast repeatedly during the financial crisis, which was one of the worst recessions in recent memory. and after years of obama and janet yellen, we finally dug out. tot: we have a live shot show all of the notes that you have. and you can see all of the paperwork on the desks. they are offering their perspectives on the republican tax bill, moving through the house and senate this week.

jeanette, you have been patient. thank you for waiting. caller: good morning, gentlemen. my comment is actually for grover norquist. i'm going to use your term. the american people are the ones getting screwed. because we all know that corporate america, when they get their tax cuts, they will not be putting it into give people more jobs. without a doubt. we know that isn't true. it's not. i worked for the department of education and we have to wait years. and what ends up happening in medical went up.

what i pay for medical went up. raise,finally got my guess what? i still pay higher for my medical. so they put the money in their pockets. grover norquist? guest: a couple of things. it is interesting to see that obama promised to cut business taxes. that showed people not bring money back to the united states. he wanted to bring that down. he kept promising people he would be kept saying how important it was to do. that he haddo was taxes on people who earned less than $200,000 a year. it was said earlier that hillary clinton wasn't going to raise a

on wages for everybody but she specifically said she would. she wanted to tax everybody. the democrats have made it clear that when they promise they won't tax people, they will. obama made that promise and -- they promise they won't tax people but they do. what we will see is that of the company wants to make more money, they have to invest in. that means hiring people. see will we have investment and capital points in the united states is more jobs. and you certainly see that tween

the states. it is especially important with the movement of people and capital of other companies into united states. see -- you can't invest without jobs. someone has to do something with the money that you are putting together to build a factory. republican on the line. good morning. caller: a question for both of you. i came in a little bit late and i'm not sure how you to get paid? are you self-employed? have you always been self-employed? do you work for somebody? green.ndy work for a nonprofit and our funding comes from a wide range. guest: i work for a

not-for-profit. donehing republicans have is put a cap on how much money people have been able to walk away from. there have been some real abuses. host: good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a comment and a question. my comment is, this is a's irritated conversation that we are witnessing this morning but it draws distinctive lines -- how grover norquist he says his facts -- versus andy green. hyperbole, this is the same old, same old. my question is -- c-span. there are other sources you could use for sources then the new york times.

investment daily? standardused weekly this morning and investment review. thank you. trade i don't mean to per corporations as evil institutions. i have worked for some and there are many good people there. i am simply trying to describe the incentives that exist in the economy. of the incentives coming out the legislation is to not invest in america. the incentives are to put more money into stock buybacks. into the stock market. that theke sure economy does not create the foundation for economic growth. i believe that and i think many

of you believe that it is essential. host: they talk about putting triggers in place. why was that not included in the final bill? guest: they have to decide to see if something fits in the senate rules and they decided that a trigger would not. they said that we couldn't do it, legally. some republicans were ready to if they had to do that. it isn't a good idea because you , please invest. any discussion as to whether these tax cuts are permanent reinforces it. taxes were domestic and they if you're an and

professional or you're self-employed, keep an eye on how your taxes are going down, no matter which party. guest: people will see a change on this bill. host: how do you measure if it is working or not working? on with will measure it her are being created or not, which is not exclusive. whether jobs are created here are overseas, and what other arguments are coming out of the conservatives on capitol hill about whether we need to cut entitlements, the safety net, and squeeze government and other things this bill completely ignores. host: the last word, andy green for the center of american progress,

announcer: now, for more we spoke with a reporter. >> joining us is bernie becker who has been following this. walk us through the schedule for this week. i can we expect? we expect the house to take this up on tuesday. after that, it would move to the senate. president trump hopes to sign this by the middle of the week and by all accounts, it looks to be on a pretty good allied path. -- glide half. host: let me share what paul ryan said. >> if you look at the polling that was done in ronald reagan's signature 1986 tax reform a month before it passed, 18% of the people polled thought they would benefit.

this is the nature of the debate on things this big like tax reform. you have pundits and spinsters confusing theers public, so that is what is happening with tax reform, like any large piece of legislation. what comforts me as the results will produce fantastic results that improve the lives of hard-working taxpayers in this country. i am convinced it will repatriate capital, launch investment in businesses and workers. i am convinced it will give bigger paychecks, a simpler system. doubling the standard deduction means nine out of 10 people can fill out taxes on a form like a postcard. the results will be what sells this will, -- bill, not the confusion before it passes. host: bernie becker, i want to share this headline from the new

york times. speaker ryan saying many americans could fill out their taxes on a postcard. is that the case? guest: no. i think you could argue they went for a tax cut rather than tax reform. speaker ryan is right, the vast majority of people would see the tax cut early on but there's the question of how long they would have the tax-cut. in the end, this is more of a tax cut and in the end, his bet is this will work and people will see that reduction and it will become more popular overtime, but they also rushed this through. it is not surprising there would be confusion about a bill this massive going through in that amount of time, what its impact would be. host: let's explain how we reached this point, based on two headlines and stories you wrote, beginning with the election results in alabama.

did that speed up the process or put more of an impetus among congressional republicans to get it done before a democrat is seated? guest: they would say that doug jones was not going to be able to be seated until probably the new year anyway. they had this christmas deadline. you can argue it re-energize them, or they understood why they needed to get it done so quickly even more. i do not think it changed their thinking at all, but it did move them even more than i might have otherwise. lawmakersublican struggle to close the gaps in the tax plan." what happened from monday until friday? guest: this is something that kind of always happens with big pieces of legislation near the andy. -- end. certain severed -- senators have

leverage. marco rubio one-a-day further extension -- wanted a further extension of the tax credit. he got that. other senators and lawmakers got last-minute things they wanted as well. all republicans really wanted to vote for this. when you have that as a unifying principle to start with, these objections can fall into line ofe easily than in the past other big pieces of legislation for the gop. host: what is the headline this week as the house and senate moves on this tax bill, and what does it mean for 2018? guest: this is a massive moment for republicans and the conservative movement. this is something they have been searching for for decades. one of the questions we will see moving forward, as the tax cuts that start in 2018, how soon will voters see that? a lot of voters see this as more of a corporate-based tax cut

than for them. we really do not know how voters will respond to this in 2018. we know republicans needed to have something like this to run on. we do not know whether it will work. host: a number of house republicans from the so-called blue states will vote against this will. -- bill. nothing changed in terms of the high tax states? guest: you can now deduct property taxes or income taxes. before it was just property taxes. for folks in those blue states, high tax suburban areas, it was the $10,000 thing that for them, that probably is what one subset of the taxpayers that may see an increase in the next years. for them, it was not enough to get the yes. host:

♪ c-span's "washington journal," live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up, talking about the weekend and washington. and the state of race and america and its implications for minority education with the robert woodson of the woods and center and a senior fellow at hoover institution. live beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern monday morning. join the discussion. >> on wednesday, homeland security deputy secretary elaine duke talked about combating terrorism and the threat of weapons of mass destruction. from the hudson institute, this is about one hour.