actually going to see whether or not the new rules we will be living under are actually appropriate for the moment we are living in. areech companies>> concerned about having to pay to reach consumers. whoso much the bigger guys have the money and could pay, but some of the smaller ones amounted. they have -- smaller ones, too. that's really going to hurt us. we cannot afford to do that. tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. >> this morning a look at the week ahead.

we'll take your calls and you can join the conversation on twitter. nd is next. n journal" [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] >> it is monday december 18, 2017. one week until christmas, and the self-imposed deadline for congress to pass tax reform. good morning and welcome to "washington journal." we'll spend the first part of the program asking you about the anticipated action on capitol hill this week and passage of the republican tax reform plan. your message to congress as that.et set to do here's how we've divided the phone lines for the conversations for the first part of the program. $50,000 a under that.

year. year the numbers are on your screen. as always we welcome your comments on facebook, c-span and send us a tweet. we'll get to your calls momentarily. the headline this morning.

a look at the front page of the washington times and their preview of the days ahead.

host: you're first up this morning. welcome. caller: i'm just wondering, if they wanted to [inaudible] host: how do you think you're oing to be impacted by this? caller: i'll make out but a le that make 30-60,000

year, after about three years they're going to be hurting. host: george, on the line making less than $50,000 a year. caller: hi. tax ot a question on the lan. it's not going to do good for anybody. the rich get more money. you think it's going to people who make $20,000, it's going to 2001-2e7. cretion in people under $75,000 are going to get an increase in their taxes. that's what the joint taxation

says. host: a reminder, you can read the plan on our website. your message to congress as they get set to take up tax reform. a final passage likely this eek. wyoming, richard. go ahead. caller: before they pass this bill they should have an amendment where the president shows his taxes wyoming, richard. to the people efore he signs the bill. thank you. host: ok. the bill has passed the amendment process. they have gone through the conference committee their one meeting. committee republicans, and we published that on our website. the house in today likely to take it up tomorrow. the house rules committee will meet this afternoon late this afternoon for conversation of

the bill and you can follow that debate. we'll have coverage at c-span.org. the "new york times" yesterday took a look at the entire bill and compared what we have currently and what's in the bill and how it will affect you in terms of exempleses and standard deductions. right now if you're single the 6350. d deduction is add in exemptions and you're up to 10,400. married 20,000. if you're married with two children.

host: good morning. caller: yes, sir. i wanted to ask about disability in some states. when you calculate the income, that the income level decreases if you have the amount -- equal over the amount the state pays you. you're saying under 50,000. to me it seems they're taking income benefits knowing you are already under 50,000. is there any solution to this? is there anything that can be done within the state to stop them? host: you're not talking about the deduction for state and local taxes on the federal reform. are you?

caller: no, sir. this is a state deal. like disability. if you get another income, that's added to that. then they take that from you to equal the income that the states give. host: and you're calling from texas. this is something that texas demands of you on your tax return? caller: yes. this is what they do. you are already struggling. then thai take your money you get additional income. still far short from 50,000 but they still take that amount from you. host: we're talking about tax eform. the administration official and opponents of the tax reform

all over the sunday shows yesterday including the treasury secretary. >> the biggest is we're capping state and local deductions at $10,000. so one of the things we're very sensitive to is the high tax states makes up a big part of the economy. lowering the top rate all over high tax states actually rich people's taxes will be going up. the reason why we lowered the top rate is we are sensitive to that large part of the economy. but the president are right there are people having their taxes going up who are rich. >> low income families who claimed the earned income tax credit would lose out over the next decade because of the new way tax brackets are indexed to inflation. adopting this method it doesn't increase as quickly. the proposal makes it so people will enter the high tax

brackets faster. if this is a plan that will help people keep more of their money and help lower and middle income people why include this provision? >> you're just looking at one little part of the bill and you have to look at the bill overall. for low income people and middle income working families, their taxes are going down. their tax credits are going up. the child tax credit is going up significantly. getting big tax cuts. that is what this is all about. but the earned income tax credit, the chained inflation part of that is going to hurt them down the road. >> you're looking at one component and you have to look at the total package getting bi they're getting, and they're getting significant tax cuts. host: the treasury secretary on the program state of the union yesterday. we're asking you this morning your message to congress on this monday morning as they get

prepared to take up the tax reform measure.

host: new york, good morning, welcome. ller: my wife and i earn $200,000 and under the trump $20,000 ll lose over n tax exemptions by losing the saalt and i hope the democrats take over congress and reinstate the saalt exemptions. >> the state and local tax exemptions. caller: we'll be paying about $7,000 more next year. host: appreciate that. let's hear from scott in colorado. caller: good morning. my thoughts are that we could encourage the rich people to -- we can tie tax breaks to job

creation and we can tie tax breaks to infrastructure investment instead of just throwing money at rich people. they're already rich. why don't we give them incentives to do what we want? host: what kind of incentives? outside of reducing taxes, what other incentives to you see as viable? what would you suggest? caller: i think tax reduction is enough. it seems to be on everybody's minds. if we could tie it to infrastructure and job creation. if a billionaire creates 100 really good jobs in a year thn i don't care how much he makes he should have his taxes reduced greatly. host: maryland. go ahead. caller: good morning. ebb kneeser scrooge revels in a merry christmas as his pass

through tax cuts grants him more lock boxes and chains. enjoy a lower tax break than his clerk bob cratchet will make a happy christmas despite his worries for health tiny tim. tiny tim. a tiny crutch hangs in the balance. this bill should really be called the bribe our doners act of 2017. host: a week away until christmas. the self-imposed deadline by congress. republicans, to get the tax measure to the president's desk. shawn in california. the self-i deadline by congress. i look at it, if we are going to have a reform on tax, we already pay

tax on everything we buy every single day, at the same time we get taxed even higher and more money gets taken from us and none comes back to us. so there should be reform on the tax. the tax. host: if child tax credit has been increased. senator rubio was holding out until it was increased.

host: sacramento, welcome. caller: i've got a question. i'm pretty certain i heard one that this bill in its initial form eliminated taxes on moneys made by corporations -- american corporations verseas. that this is that correct, to your knowledge? host: i don't know but it may be in par of the "new york times" writing over the weekend. in terms of what the changes are ahead for corporate taxes.

caller: i'm glad that they are giving us a tax break. i pay taxes and as an older person believe me, a tax break is a welcome sight. during president obama's time all we had were taxes. a little tax break for somebody who makes under $50,000 is a welcome. and my family will be able to benefit as well. because i have a brother who is a small business owner and he will be able to benefit as well. i think a tax break is needed. i'm glad president trump and the republicans are giving us a tax break for change instead of

just heaping more taxes on it. when we're under 50,000 we need a break. host: thank you. what do you think of the tax plan? caller: my message to congress is yes to donald trump. i think he's wonderful. and i worked for a lawyer that made a minimum of $1.3 million a year between him and his wife. saw his tax returns every year. i had to pay more than he did. and the guy that complained that he was making $200,000 with his wife and had to year. i had to pay more than he pay a extra 7,000 they should pay more. they're making more. happy holidays to c-span. host: thank you. you said you saw the attorney's tax return and you paid more than he did. how did he manage to pay less than you did? what did he do? caller: he was the kind of tax

attorney to get in context so he could save the exemptions. people need tax attorneys to understand the tax law. that's a bunch of bologne. they know all the nitty-gritty on how to save the money. that's why they have the accountents. host: just under a week ago doug jones won the senate race in alabama beating roy moore in that race. still no word on when that race will be finalized or when doug jones will be seated in the u.s. senate. "washington post" this morning writing about the races ahead in 2018.

the president also tweeting about that on the -- this morning saying, remember, republicans are 5-0 in congressional races this year. the media refuses to acknowledge this. caller: good morning. what i think everybody should tall, up to the cap the white house with guns and ill everything up there. host: new york.

caller: i'm a professor of english at a local community college and the tax bill will hurt graduate students because they're going to have to claim their tuition waivers as income. also, teachers are not going to be able to take away taxes from -- claim taxes -- i'm sorry. for school supplies. there's a lot of other things other than tax issues that are going to affect us that are in the bill. the health issues. there is so much that we need to look at before congress votes for this bill. it is not fair to look at, to vote for a bill that is not being looked at completely and cohesively and coherently. it's being rammed down our throats and it is going to hurt us. host: your message to congress as they get set this week to take up and likely pass the tax

reform bill. supporters, members of on this weekend. >> you have people like mr. ne chin who is worth millions. the president is worth several billions. some lobbyists doing everything they could to write a bill which significantly benefits the wealthiest people in this country and the largest

corporation. the latest analysis that we have seen suggested 72% of the benefits go to the top 5%. my guess is that 60% of the benefits go top top 1%. because the benefits for the middle class are temporary, while the corporate benefits are permanent at the end of the decade over half of the middle class will be paying more in taxes. what we are seeing here is a on the ive attack middle class. what i worry very much is that if you listen to what the speaker of the house paul ryan is talking about, what he is saying is that as a result of this bill the deficit will go up by 1.4 trillion. and what ryan in my view will with, a massive cut

to social security, medicare, medicaid in order to offset that deficit. so massive tax breaks fort rich, cuts to social security. this is a grossly unfair tax bill. host: with, a massive cut to senator bernie sanders on face the nation yesterday. we had a caller mentioning the deductibility of school supplies. the "new york times" saying that's one of the things that didn't change in the tax reform measure, the republican plan.

host: sue from maryland. caller: first, you just said that teachers can deduct up to $250,000. host: my mistake. caller: i just wanted to say, also i believe the tuition waiver did not make it in the final thing, either. so i think that grad students are safe. but what i wanted to say is i hate this tax bill. reagan tried to get rid of salt and he wasn't able to do it. the salt deduction should stay because to eliminate it is nothing more than double taxation. i don't understand how anyone who pays no taxes at all gets a refund. that is completely beyond me. the other thing is if you want to cut corporate taxes then cut corporate taxes but everyone should have some skin in the game. everyone should pay something. everyone should get a tax

break. and i see nothing in this bill that talks about cutting spending. i have been a trump supporter since day one. was on his twitter feed as far back as 2010. if this passes the way that it is, i hope that he loses the house. i hope he gets a big black eye. and i hope the democrats come back in and fix it so it is more equitable. how do you take away salt from individuals and give it to corporations? also these individual tax cuts expire in five years. they are permanent for corporations. if there is anything for americans are famous for is a sense of fairness. there is nothing fair about this tax bill at all. host: here's the comparison between current law and what's in the new bill from sunday's "new york times."

caller: i pay $13,000 a year. with this i'm losing 4% of my medicaid. we barely make it. most people in louisiana make $35,000 a year. so where do you get this 50,000? you have to work in the big city or corporations or something to make that kind of money. there's no sense in the poor people after covering so much and the rich get all the benefits. what's happening to america? in florida.

-- joe in florida. caller: good morning. i just want to say something on this tax reform bill that it is wrong. in florida. -- joe in that over time people that are $75,000 make over the will be paying more and that the kids are going to be hurting. health insurance, too. those disabled. i don't understand how these people can $75,000 will be live with themselves. live with themselves. i hope the democrats shut down the government this week as a tool to get this back up. i also hope the rich people are going to get back like they say they are going to but they never do. they give bonuses to their executives and everything like that. where does it end? trump gets on there and smiles and has the nerve to say this is a christmas present. i never voted for him and i

never will. i don't see how people ever did ut they did. my mother voted for him. host: did you ask your moth whire she voted for him? caller: because she thought he would change america, make america great again. host: appreciate that. tan in new york. caller: hi. first, i would like to say that i am glad to have federal taxes reduced. unfortunately in the state of new york our taxes never are reduced. i got a letter the other day that states that our house is going to be reevaluated again in regards to property taxes. i live in monroe county.

we already have the highest property taxes in the entire state. as far as the salt money, that's new york's way of basically taking and elevating the amount of deductions that can be put towards the federal income tax to be able to make people be able to afford to live in this state. unfortunately, the declining population base in new york state kind of speaks for itself. the liberals have destroyed the state. i live in the western part of the state, and unemployment has actually risen over a period of time in the last year or so. some real problems with crime and so on. but nothing really gets done. cuomo never even gives press so crime and so on. but conferences and when he does he

can't even take a question about sexual assault and why he hired all the obama flunkies to put in jobs in new york state. thank you. host: here's how a change -- the changes in the republican plan if it passes. host: jake, business owner. cleveland. you're on the air. go ahead. caller: i would just like to

see what happened to me in 86 when president ronald reagan a president i was getting check for like -- host: you're on the air. go ahead. caller: ok. this is what happened a check for to me. i hit the lottery in 86 for like -- i was getting like 4,000 a year for 20 years. when reagan cut the taxes they from my winnings. so i was getting 24 when they cut the tax on that i was 18,000. so that tax cut, they're talking about that dog won't hunt. they're just telling 18,000. so lies on that. host: front page this morning of the arizona republic.

mccain to miss vote on tax overhaul. on john mccain and the tax package. president trump made some comments as he returned from camp david for the weekend. >> i did speak to senator

mccain and i wish him well. wish john well. i understand he will come if we need his vote which hopefully we won't. but the word is that john will come back if we need his vote. he's going through a very tough time. but he will come back if we need his vote. message to congress. this is the final times message morning.

to robert in colorado. aller: good morning.

i pay attention. please give me a chance to say the whole thing. 19 january 20, 1953. noticed oung kid and i my dad's coffee went up from a nick toll a dime. my dad complained and the owner said well, we have ike on our side. can you imagine coffee being a snickle at one time and now it's closes to $5 in anyications. 1971 when they did away with gold standard. nixon did away with the gold standard that way he could farm out all our labor. he unions don't have any leverage because they ship jobs out and they do it by snot

having the gold standard. the gold standard is our labor force. get rich poor people get more poor because they inflate everything. 2006, when phil graham laughed at the american people and he said americans are a bunch of whiners. after he had inflated the cost oil to $147 and we -- our economy started to crash. niddle of y -- the july 2007. host: with your knowledge of history, what do you think it means for the passage of this tax reform bill? caller: i hope that the big impact is that we can finally get rid of all these republican gangsters.

says to tution promote the general welfare. that's in the programible of the constitution. the fifth phrase. also, very important says to promote the general welfare. that's in the the constitution was written for this country. it was not written for the world. another important fact is that if we ever get real strong in the house and the senate and he president, we have this fellow, the greatest sheister in the world. they never show what they're worth. they never show their schemes. but it's all a bunch of schemes.

caller: good morning. i would like to urge people that are recipients of social security and disability benefits and veterans that receive disability benefits that the consumer price index is being changed and it's in an insidious way that is meant to be a secretive tax increase. the tax bill has something in there called chained cpi. everybody knows that cpi is a measure of how quickly the cost of living goes up. under this chain cpi -- i'm

going to read this to you -- there are assumptions that as prices grow people find alternatives to keep their spending down like not getting health insurance, the price of food or lodging grows. the measure counts on consumers lowering their standard of living to keep up with lowering prices. chain cpi increases more slowly than cpiw exs the system we're on. if price growth exceeds the growth of pay the result is that people fall farther behind. not only with social security payments grow more slowly than today but there are significant tax implications. according to the tax policy center indexing tax brackets and other parameters to the chained consumer chained consu

price index means that over time more income is suggest to tax at higher rates. the standard deduction earned income tax credit would grow more slowly driving taxes up including for the poorest. becomes a ge stealth way to reduce federal poverty spending because poverty levels tide to chained cpi would include fewer people over time. here's what the "new york times" writes. a major issue for trump is the national of the new

security plan. why is this speech necessary? why is this done by administrations? caller: as a matter of fact it is actually unusual for the to present to present this national security strategy, which is a document that is required by congress and is done by every administration. this is a very broad brush set of guiding principles might think of it as framework for national security a as well as blueprint for action. host: one of the headlines we're seeing coming up today at 2:00 eastern is trump will stress trade and borders ignore climate change and new national security strategy. what are some of the notable elements in the strategy that

you are hearing of? caller: one thing you just mentioned i think is correct that there will be perhaps an nusual amount of emphasis on border control. also, it appears that there would be more of a change border control. also, it frapssmantic or terminology in the way that major powers like russia and china are described. in nteresting aspect is some respects in line of what previous presidents have followed in fact when it comes to russia for example. russia and china both will be presented in the context of kind of a new great power struggle going on on the world stage. in fact, this was recognized and discussed to some extent in the latter years of the obama administration.

host: who are the authors behind this national strategy? caller: it was principally of course the national security . am mcmaster the national security advisor and you can also see i think a lot of influence of the defense secretary.. in fact one thing worth mentioning is that while the strategy is going to be built on president trump's america first themes, you can also look at the way the administration thus far this year has actually excuted his national security strategy when you consider afghanistan for example that the president announced in august a new strategy in afghanistan. he mentioned when he delivers the speech that he was personally inclined to in fact planned to pull out of afghanistan but then his advisers i think led in large part by jim matty the secretary of defense changed his mind and

e u.s. is in fact staying in afghanistan. host: typically how does the national security strategy get translated into administration policy and legislative action? caller: that's a good point very broad a document and it is not an action plan. it will then very shortly probably as early as next month it will be inside of this document will be or built inside would be a defense strategy which is a little more specific and inside the defense strategy will be a military strategy which will be even more specific and it will then be connected to several other long-term reviews that have been going on inside the pentagon. one of which is called the nuclear posture review which is going to reconsider how the u.s. maintains and executes its nuclear strategy as well as missile defense strategies. it has been under review. these will all be brought together.

host: look for more reporting later today from robert burns on twitter. thanks for the update. a reminder, too, to our viewers and listeners. we'll cover the president's speech today. look for it live coming up today. also on c-span.org streaming live and you can listen to it live on the free c-span radio app. back to our calls and your comments, your message to congress as they pretear to take up the tax reform plan this week. host: jim in missouri.

caller: good morning. at age 58 i was fired from my truck driving job. new pay package, new owners. instead of getting a raise, i got a pink slip. host: when was this? caller: three years ago. i am now waiting for my first social security check. my wife and i never had kids. we both worked. we actually made more than $50,000 a few years. if we had paid no taxes at all, it would not have changed our life drastically. 0 years of wage stagnation, we need wage increases. not tax cuts. here in missouri, we have a navy seal as a governor. went after right to work,

prevailing wages, he's -- well, the state is now prevailing wages cutting back on education because we're broke. our gasoline tax is going up by a nickle. the federal taxes are only a part of it. red states like missouri get more from the feds than we pay in. if the feds don't have any money the state doesn't get any money. local taxes go up. this is not going to be good for the working people. thank you much. host: thank you. oregon.ndependence, good morning. caller: i would loik to ask the question. i don't like this tax bill but my question is i'm going to be turning 65 pretty soon and i would like to know whether at 65 the standard deduction will

be oregon. good morning. doubled and will to get an extra deduction because i'm 5 now? thank you very much. host: -- 65 now? thank you very much. , from new jersey. caller: i'm calling about the -- no one is discussing the conservation easement deduction. this is the deduction for golf courses. i would like to see maybe if c-span would be able to expand on that for us to understand why things like chips will not be funded or is being minimally funded when you've got these getting a conservation easement deduction, and then how much does the trump organization benefit from this? getting a conservation easement host: do you know if this

continues under the new tax plan? caller: unfortunately i didn't get my copy of the gill. and given that it's between in -- bill. and given it's been in transition for so long i don't know. it would be nice to know if it is in there. as a middle class american i might consider buying a golf course to take advantage of this. host: we have posted the bill at c-span.org in our congressional chronicle, the final version of the bill. new jersey, gloria. caller: good morning. i haven't heard anything at all bout retirees. for instance, we built a home at a cost of about $135,000 a long time ago. been in the house probably close to 50 years. my property tax is $15,000 a year. plus, state tax.

first, i don't see how we legitimately can tax -- pay a tax on tax. that's ridiculous. i can't even write off my taxes ow for my house. host: thank you. i'm glowing to take a look at the "new york times" comparison on that. because you asked about the mortgage interest deduction. i will see if i can find that for you. the change in the mortgage nterest deduction. currently a homeowner can -- i think we talked about this earlier.

linda in florida. caller: good morning. i would like to speak about this inheritance tax. i don't know how many people but i certainly will say it's should we be able to have the people getting $11 million as an exemption -- or s $12 million? 's horrible that people work all of their lives and yet most of us don't accrue more than 2 or 3 million to pass do you know to our children. can have ied couple an exemption of 11 or 12 million when they made the money on the backs of the poor?

this is outrageous. this is not me. trending on rt social media, not me. i'm not getting an $11 million exemption. are you? are you getting an $11 million exemption? this is outrageous. it's giving more money to the rich and they didn't even earn social it. host: here's the comparison for estate taxes.

new york, jeffery, good morning. kimplingtsdz good morning. thank you for c -- caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i am a rare breed. i'm a socially liberal and fiscally conservative democrat. i want to talk about if we put the national debt of $20 30-year mortgage. if you do this division and do the math -- and i think even the fiscally conservative republicans will agree. divide $20 trillion by 330 million population and divide it again by 30 years for a 30-year mortgage on the debt equals $2,000 for every man woman and child per year in taxes. $160 a month for every man woman and child for 30 years is what we need to increase taxes. that the poor and the

lower middle class can put up that $160 per month. we don't have that kind of disposable income. so where that the poor and is t come from? it has to come from corporations and the wealthy. ost: rick in illinois. aller: thank you for having me on the air this morning. i think some people are misinformed on this deficit portion of the tax bill. i was talking to a friend of mine on the weekend. this 1.5 trillion estimating, he thought it was for the entire 10 years but there's about $1 trillion per year every year of the tax plan. and a lot of people are misinformed on that. that's a huge difference between one year and every year. plan of a $1 plan of a $1

trillion. and think about it. that's a $10 trillion addition to our current debt. tax man's in my office the other day, friday, to get my tax preparation scheduled. i asked him about the new tax plan. he said that he already had information. but it had been downloaded by the i.r.s. wednesday after midnight. this was on friday. how is it possible? host: he's keeping track of the changes ahead of meeting with tax n early 2018 on your bill? caller: it strikes me odd that this would start to be coming out when as of friday the whole portions hadn't been worked out yet. host: appreciate the call. this morning in the "wall street journal."

>> not looking good. not looking good. it's quite sad to see that my the constitution is not being

addressed by our politicians. i would bet most of them don't even know what is there. so my point here is that for taxes and to finance the government, we should have a every x that based and expenditures, every individual makes throughout the whole system. the reason for that is very simple. because we have to defend the constitutional republic that wasn't given -- was given to us by our founding fathers. we are so wrong on this. we create laws with thousands and thousands of pages. nobody reads them. here, we go and discuss all these things that are practically unenforceable. host: but we encourage you to read the bill at c-span.org. jonathan in minnesota. caller: .aller: happy holidays

i am calling from minneapolis, home of the super bowl. we are looking forward to everybody coming to the twin cities. with this new tax bill, it is trickle-down economics for them to put money in their pocket. y am more worried about what\/ -- why they are not going to impeach him. i am fed up. i will not vote for another politician ever again from what they did to al franken. seriously, they only went after him because of what he was doing with trump. and nobody is, saying it. and god bless america -- we are all going to need it. thank you. more calls on tax reform and the broader issues facing congress in the coming week. we will look at the last week in congress, a busy week.

we will talk to "washington examiner" white house reporter sarah wedgewood and bloomberg reporter anna edgerton. we will look at tax reform, the budget, and much more. and we will take calls. stay tuned. tuesday, congress begins final debate on tax reform was republicans expecting a vote before christmas. watch live coverage of the debate and vote on c-span and c-span2.

live on the free c-span radio app. if you are on the go, use your mobile device to watch our live coverage at c-span.org/congress. communicators, a member of the "washington post" and a member of politico talks about the overturning of net neutrality. the question is whether not the rules put in place in 2015 are appropriate for this new era . by rolling the back, looking at whether we are actually going to see -- whether or not the new rules are actually appropriate. are concernedies about having to pay to reach consumers. oft is a pretty big sphere -- not so much the bigger guys

who have the money to some of the smaller websites like reddit. we have to pay a toll to reach consumers, that is going to hurt us. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. c-span, where history unfolds daily. c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. "washington journal" continues. host: sarah westwood is white house reporter for the "washington examiner." anna edgerton, congressional reporter for bloomberg. they are here to talk about the week ahead. there is a lot to get done. we talked about the tax reform bill in the first hour, but

there are a lot of other materials on the table, as well. -- as your impressions the year began, did either of you expect that the week before christmas, there would be so much to get done? sarah westwood? guest: certainly not. this years started with a lot of hope about what they would be able to get done. there was hope for an infrastructure package, health care reform, tax, and we see they are just barely going to get one of those things over the finish the end of the year. so i do not think republicans have correctly assessed how challenging it would be. the --nd or adjutant in anna edgerton, were you expecting to be reporting from the capital in the last week before christmas? guest: i think because they were not able to get some of those

other things done, passing tax reform goes all the more important. they have to have something to show for their first year of united government, and the tax bill is top of a lot of conservative priorities, and they would get the talking point to say they were able to accomplish something. it some of it is temporary and will not get the simplicity that they hoped, but it would give if theyolitical win were able to get it onto the president's desk. rules committee will meet today on tax reform, and the house is supposed to take it on tomorrow, maybe even the senate on tuesday. are there still potential stumbling blocks for tax reform in either the house or senate? ever a sureng is thing until it is done. it looks like they are in a good political place, especially in the house. i do not see any pockets of resistance. they are excited to vote on this bill. in the senate, it looks like they have the votes, although senator john mccain will miss

the vote because of treatment for his brain cancer in arizona. to sayd get bob corker he would support the bill. so it looks like they are in pretty good shape, but it is not a sure thing. host: the vice president will be present for votes this week. senator mccain not and the chamber, back in arizona. the vice president canceling a trip to the middle east to be of the capital for this. how else will the white house be involved in the final push? certainly if anyone like jeff flake, any last-minute holders, need any whipping, president trump be working with them. he has been inviting senators to play golf with him and has been working the phone. he has traveled to capitol hill specifically to pitch senators on the home turf. so he is trying to be a cheerleader for this whole thing, while giving senate to negotiate.ace

for instance, the white house did not want the corporate tax rate to go higher than 20%, but they had to accept it to be raised to 21%. the white house let senate and house republicans negotiate the finer points and did not try to get in the way because they knew it would be difficult to get through. host: a busy schedule for congress. we are joined by sarah westwood from the "washington examiner" and bloomberg congressional correspondent anna edgerton. we welcome your comments on tax reform and the other issues for congress. .epublicans, 202-748-8001 democrats, 202-748-8000s. independent and others, 202-748-8002. and we are also on twitter, @cspanwj. there are many things for this week, but what certainly has to

be done is a spending bill. current government funding ends friday at midnight, correct? what is tentatively the plan for republicans to continue funding? guest: right, and they set themselves up for this crushed right before christmas, because the temporary funding measure only went from december 8 until december 22, so they wanted to give themselves time to get the tax bill out of those chambers. their main priority is voting on the tax bill and getting it out of congress. then they will turn to the spending negotiations. they have been working on it, but it is clear that taxes are the priority. the two chambers have taken different approaches on the spending bill, so they will have to figure out how to reconcile this and get something through both chambers before friday. is this an opportunity, particularly in the house, for the freedom caucus on the republican side and the

democratic caucus in terms of their opposition to the fact that there is currently no stipulation for the dreamers, for the daca provisions? is that an area that could grind this procedure to a halt? guest: i think it is unlikely that daca will make it into the bill this week. those negotiations have not advanced much, even though from both parties say it is a priority and needs to be taken care of. i think you'll see tougher fortiation over the level defense spending and nondefense discretionary spending and trying to reach an agreement to deal with the budget caps. they need to negotiate that to get it through both chambers. host: is the white house happy with the budget caps, raising the level of spending? guest: the white house has wanted to lift defense spending

caps. that was their priority going in. there are talking about appropriating money through september just for defense and doing a temporary spending measure for all other areas of the budget just until february 19. a white house has said from the start they have no interest in including immigration in discussions right now. they think that should be left for when lawmakers come back from the holiday. that is why you are not seeing it as part of the end of the year spending next. but if they can keep the focus on appropriations and not other policy areas, then we are not likely to see a shutdown. host: is the wife is going to get funding for a border wall? seem like the not white house has been interested in going to the mat this round. the white house has the daca protections as a vehicle for that. they know they will have the most leverage when protection for dreamers is hanging in the

balance. host: we have calls waiting for sarah westwood and anna edgerton on the last week in congress. a lot of issues. first, san antonio, texas, christopher on our republican line. caller: yes, sir, i would like to applaud congress, first of all, for getting this tax bill through. one, raising the standard deduction from $12,000 to $24,000, that puts $1000 in my pocket just looking at the tax table from last year. for middle income taxpayer, $1000 is a lot of money. so please work out all the fine print on this bill, get it through, and give the great people of this nation a break for christmas that president trump has promised us, because we deserve it. we just need it to that is all i have got to say. host: anna edgerton, what do you

think the breakthrough was for the tax bill? detection isandard important for middle-class families and will allow people to get that break without itemizing different kinds of deductions. however, that $1000 he mentioned is not going to be every year. it is hard to calculate exactly what the tax benefit or burden will be for different families in different situations. cpithey are using a chain to adjust income brackets for inflation, which means that families will be pushed into higher income brackets faster. so that means that the brakes, the tax breaks you see initially, are not necessarily going to be there in the following years. also, the individual tax rate cut was made temporary and this bill because of budget concerns and the deficit impact. host: republicans were able to rubioer senator marco

after he had objections over the child tax credit, raising it from $1100 to $1400. why was he holding up? is a lot about messaging and trying to convince people that this is a middle-class benefit, when the bulk of the tax cut will be for corporations. of $1.5of 1.52 -- out trillion, about one trillion of that goes to the corporate tax cut. so part of senator rubio's concern was being able to say we are working hard to make sure that middle-class families, working-class families, really get the benefits they need. next inlph charlottesville, virginia, also on our republican line. yes, thanks for c-span. i have a question on the exemption. i understand the final bill eliminates the exemption for -- if it is the

case, a married couple would ase $8,300 and exemptions in $12,000 game, and a standard deduction would not help that individual that much. also, mr. rosenstein's statement on these contributions by employees, high level, the hatch act should be considered as far as repercussions against those employees, the emails, and so forth. so thanks for your answer, and that is what i had to say. host: we will leave it there, the rosenstein comment, but do you want to respond to the tax question? of the reasons it has been so difficult for republicans to sell the tax bill to their own party is there are a number of losers in the tax bill, people who live in states

with high state and local taxes will not necessarily see a break. to high level income families who will not necessarily see breaks. so there are families that we would consider as middle class who will not feel any relief from this package. that is why i think there has been some discomfort among republicans, because they know certain constituencies are going to lose out. host: on the democrat line, dale in bethlehem, pennsylvania. caller: merry christmas. republicans have a bad memory. we have a tremendous debt, and a lot of it is primarily from the bailouts. suddenly, they are going to increase the debt to trillions of dollars, and it is unfair. this is a time when taxes should be increased, when we have this benefit of the market booming. it was going up under obama, as

well. his eight years. this man is not going to do that. we're going to go in the gutter. everyone will get their social security cut, medicaid, medicare, and we are going to be hurting. they should take a really good look at it, because it will probably be the end and their political careers, the people voting for it. host: talk about social security and medicare. the next phase would be seeking spending reductions. what have you heard about plans to address the spending, particularly on this social programs? guest: speaker ryan mentioned in a press conference last week that next year's agenda will include reforms and spending reductions for government programs like medicare and medicaid. speaker ryan even said he was able to convince president trump that addressing the cost of medicare is going to be an important thing to do in the coming year. the president said during the

campaign that is one of the things he would not touch. that is one of the selling points republicans have, saying this will not have a deficit impact like studies show it will , because they are going to reform entitlement programs if they recall them in the coming year. however, reforming government programs, after having cut taxes and adding $1.5 trillion to the deficit, is also a hard sell, he does it looks like corporations are getting that benefit. westwood, any idea how the white house would approach the debate in terms of potentially reducing spending in areas of social programs? as anna edgerton pointed out, the president's had that as a campaign promise. tost: right, he promised not go after entitlement programs like social security. those are the types of things that paul ryan has long dreamed about reforming. we normally talk about tax or form and they want a couple

revenue losses with spending cuts. it was not really part of the conversation this time around. after having failed in the health care reform debacle, i think republicans realize this would be a heavier lift than it seemed at first glimpse, so they did not go to offsetting spending cuts like you imagine they would do. and hoping thes momentum from that victory would carry them forth into welfare reform, entitlement reform, that is the type of thing i think you will see's tried to tackle next year. about there talking final big ahead in congress with sarah westwood and anna edgerton. one of the issues we have not addressed yet, some reporting here on the nsa, the fisa act. that congress is struggling to authorize key rules that govern national security agency wiretapping without a warrant.

the rules in question are set on section 708, fisa. in discussions, they are usually referred to as section 702. cannational security agency vacuum up the electronic communications of foreign intelligence targets likely to be located outside of u.s. territory. officials do not need a fort-issued warrant individual targets. instead, there is a list of proper categories annually approved for foreign intelligence collection. this has been a discussion all year. what is going to happen? one item on a laundry list of things that could be included in this last spending bill of the year. i would include subsidies for obamacare, the different kinds of flood insurance programs, children's health insurance programs, and the fisa reauthorization is one of the bargaining chips you see some

groups in congress wanting to include, others not. it looks like it will just be extended temporarily, not the full reauthorization. but it is something intelligence community's say they need, that this will be a legal tool in their intelligence toolbox to fight terrorism and counterterrorism intelligence. there are interesting supporters and opponents, not necessarily split along republican and democratic lines. guest: right, it is always interesting to see the advocates who do not want to have the government to have these broad sweeping powers, and then you have conservatives who are worried about limited government. it is interesting to see the people who get together. but i think this particular policy area has been politicized , when you talk about what the house intelligence community has been looking into in terms of how this program was abused by the previous administration and

the level of partisanship that may cause the vote to break down along party lines. host: we saw an accelerated everett last week in the house. what we did not see was the house intelligence committee, their investigation into the 2016 elections, hearing from for a longp, jr., section. is it likely the house intelligence investigation will wrap up by the end of the year? guest: republicans are interested in wrapping this up as quickly as possible because it distracts them from doing basically anything else. thatrats are worried republicans will try to rush the investigation because it causes political problems for the white house. republicans are worried that democrats are going to drag it out into an election year and cause problems for the white house. both sides really disagree on the timing. if the senateow

effort is likewise being rushed? guest: i think the committee has been taking more seriously than the house of representatives. in the house, there was the issue of whether or not a representative had taken information to the white house in an appropriate way. the ethics committee set he had not, even though he had kind of accused himself from overseeing that investigation even though he was still signing orders requesting information. but now he has been cleared of that, and the house is still doing the work. that i think the senate committee is the one that everyone is really looking to four results. host: the congressman was cleared of that. another congressman has been leading the investigation, so devin nunes has not been tak ing over as chairman? guest: he unofficially recused himself, but he was still acting as the committee chairman and some aspects. n and pottstown,

pennsylvania, on the independent line. caller: yes, sir, good morning. hear me out. [indiscernible] here.ery surprised the freedom party, so-called tea obama'sould not support stimulative package when he tried to pass it because they said it would rise the deficit. approving tax cuts and increasing the deficit. i want them to explain to the american people, where are we going to get the money for these tax cuts? nobody is asking how they are going to get the money for these tax cuts.

so please tell the american people where we are going to get the money for these tax cuts. host: anna edgerton? guest: in this debate, you have seen republicans show themselves to be spending hawks, not deficit hawks. implants about deficit concern when it comes to spending plans, like plans in the obama administration. thatlicans really believe this will be so progrowth that it will make up for the revenue loss to the tax cuts, so there will be more tax revenue coming in when you factor in economic growth. but the caller makes an excellent point, with a larger deficit, you will have higher interest rates. it will be a bit of a break on growth, as well. so the independent economic analysis shows that this plan is not going to grow the economy as much as republicans say it well, and there is a huge concern about the deficit impact and this being passed on to future generations to deal with.

he mentioned president obama, and looking back a year, sarah westwood, how effective do you think that donald trump been in overturning some of the regulations, particularly the late 2016 regulations promulgated by president obama and his administration? that is actually think some of the areas where president trump has had some of his greatest success of his presidency. he has been producing regulations at a pretty impressive rate. last week, he held an event to showcase that. he claimed that for every one regulation, they have delayed, canceled, or scrapped 22 obama era regulations. that is a pretty impressive pace, so the white house has tried to showcase this to say that even though we have not had as much legislative success that we have wanted, we have been working hard to cut the red tape. president trump actually cut a literal red tape at the event.

host: part of the tax package will be ending the individual mandate of the affordable care act, obamacare. that 2018 willnt bring more legislative effort on health care? guest: house speaker paul ryan said his normal line that obamacare is collapsing and we need to rebuild, so part of this -- the incredible uncertainty that has been facing them this year as republicans tried to repeal this legislation and have not been able to, so repealing the individual mandate is a huge policy that underpins those insurance brackets. removing that, people would no longer be required to have insurance, and that is going to make premiums go up even more. so that means less people will be able to afford insurance. then that actually will push the obamacare market into an actuarial death spiral. there probably will have to be

some kind of legislation to address the state of insurance markets in this country. are some bipartisan proposals in the senate. the house has not shown themselves to be very interested in taking those up, but some senators are demand doing in exchange for their tax cut. host: in a news conference last week, the speaker also rejecting a report that he is going to step down from the leadership. magazine -- paul ryan sees his washington turning coming t -- washington journey coming to an end. what is your sense about how long he wants to stay in the position? guest: i do not think anyone expected paul ryan to be the speaker of the house for decades . having said that, people close to him say he is energized by this tax reform package. that it is a lifelong dream of his to have this kind of reaganesque, historic rewriting of the tax code.

there are more policy priorities for him next year, including entitlement reforms. if he checks those off, i could see him wanting to step down and explore life outside the halls of congress. he has been here since he was very young, and there are definitely other things he probably wants to accomplish in his career. host: these speaker went from being a bit of an adversary to the president to more of a partner through the year. guest: he did. at the beginning of trump for the presidency, he described his relationship with speaker ryan wine that has aged and got much that her. paul ryan has been able to deliver consistently on the president's agenda. mitch mcconnell has actually struggled in the senate to get a lot of these policies passed. in the obamacare reform fight, the house was able to pass something with -- with relative ease.

in the senate, it fell apart. president trump light mitch mcconnell for that. everest thewestwood white house for the "washington examiner." degrees inon has journalism and international affairs from columbia university. next, laporte, indiana, hearing from larry. under my income, president trump says i will see a $4000 a year extra in my pocket. $1200publican party says to $1400 a year. the democrats say i am going to lose money. if everybody is looking at the same numbers, how come i am getting so many different answers? resource is the go-to on capitol hill, the bipartisan people that can be trusted for

numbers? lot,: the bill changed a even in the month and i have congress has been discussing it. committee on taxation and the congressional budget office and others have been working around the clock to try to score different versions of this bill and figure out what the impact would be for middle-class families. trying to comb through the different provisions to see which families in different situations would be affected in certain ways, a very daunting task. there are families with different circumstances, like higher medical expenses or families that live in high tax states that would be hit by the cap for state and local taxes. so it is really hard to say that a family at a certain income level is going to have a certain impact, because it will look different depending on which went the person is in, their income is, whether family structure is, and it is not easy

to say this will be the nfl for everybody. clark in la crosse, wisconsin, democrat. caller: good morning. have a question. is it true that it is a mandatory law known as paygo that will kick in any time congress passes a bill that will raise the deficit that requires mandatory cuts to social security, medicare, and other programs? i will take your answer off-line. sarah westwood, do you want to tackle that? guest: i am not certain that has been part of the discussions. they are just focused on getting the bill through right now, and there have been a lot of conservatives, supposedly fiscal hawks, not expressing as much concern about the deficit because they are just interested in getting the bill passed. in terms of spending the

money the tax plan will cost, democrats to reject year-end spending does, the shutdown risk rises. if you look at it from this what would be your estimate of a chance of a shutdown by the end of the week? guest: it is definitely there. i think that nobody really wants a shutdown, but there is not a clear path forward to avoiding it. the leading plan to deal with a spending deadline that would include the defense appropriations bill through september and the temporary funding measure through january 19 is a leading member in the house of representatives, and the republicans are pretty sure they can pass that with only republican votes, meaning democrats have no leverage in the house. in the senate, senators of both

parties have said that that approach does not have a chance and probably will not even get republican votes it needs, and it needs 60 votes. showdown between house and senate on whether they're going to go with the house pose a more aggressive approach to spending or they will have to reach a bipartisan compromise in the senate. host: one of those senators who will not be voting this week, senator john mccain, likely to he is battling brain cancer and returned home to arizona. he is likely to miss the boat to approve a sweeping tax overhaul -- missed the vote to approve a sweeping tax overhaul. the senator said he would return if his vote is needed. thomasville, georgia, scott, good morning, on our republican line. caller: good morning. experts say, both on your programs and meetings i attended, that to repeal the mandate, it will affect the

individual insurance market. it will not require people to buy insurance. that is obvious, but i think every time i hear someone say that, i am remembering that in 2016, beforend trump was even on the horizon, the insurance markets were in trouble. they have gotten worse over the time is obamacare has taken hold in states like mine, which is haveia, where you used to four or five insurance companies and enjoy would -- in individual markets. 2014, they started leaving. now all we have is blue cross blue shield. if you want insurance, you have to buy it from them. without the exchanges were going to be the amazon of insurance, where you can look at a spreadsheet of all the different options. and you do not need brokers because you could just look at it online. that never happened in

noncommunity rated states. host: thank you. sarah westwood? guest: it is true that a lot of the affordable care act are not necessarily perform as a democrats said it was going to. there was the botched rollout of healthcare.gov and through today, there have been a lot of problems. democrats say that is because republicans have created a lot of uncertainty and have been unwilling to take the steps needed to stabilize the market. republicans are saying that we towed you guys it would not work and not enough young people the cost it to offset of the older and sicker people. particularly in states where republican governors did not take the mandate expansion. republicans are poised to make them even worse. the health insurance sign of was just last week. would the administration view

that as a success? were there flawless sign-ups this year? guest: there were a lot of fears on the left because the republican administration cut the outreach budget for obamacare, so they thought we would see fewer sign-ups. that is not necessarily what we saw, even though the administration scaled back its efforts to publicize it. we still saw a healthy number of sign-ups. repealing the individual mandate would certainly be the greatest blow to the law so far because younger, healthier people would no longer face a penalty if they did not want to buy health insurance. host: would you be surprised if they included this inside the tax bill? the senate decided to include it, i think that is what made it clear that it had a path forward to actually passing. house speaker paul ryan was able to tell moderates and the house,

even susan collins in the senate who is known as more of a moderate member, so if she supports that, surely you can get on board. one of the main reasons they decided to include that in the senate bill was to get some fiscal space for other priorities in the tax bill. they got over $300 billion in government savings that they were able to then use that in the deficit calculation to support some other provisions. host: they are including the individual mandate repeal. to saye any quid pro quo we are also going to take of the effort by senator murray to continue subsidies for the aca? guest: majority leader mitch senator susanised collins that he would include alexander murray and another bipartisan bill, imn a

must-pass end of the year bill, and now we only have the cr on friday. that was a way of assuring her that this would not have been devastating impact on health insurance markets that independent analysts said that it would. host: so that is included in the cr? is not.o, it it has been much discussed in washington, whether or not susan rolled andot whether mitch mcconnell can deliver on that. and there's another chamber in the house that has no interest in anything from the obamacare market. host: we have a call from our nation's capital on the independent line. you are on the air. to comment oned the economic situation because no one has addressed what i the going on, which is the $800 billion giveaway to the rich. and now they are ready to double that.

we going to have another financial collapse. it is not consistent with the neoliberal economics hearing. i think we really have to watch out for that. i wanted to comment on net neutrality. again, it gets down to principles. they have removed the discussion on the science. it is the 702, unconstitutional and always has been since signing the national security act. do we change the constitution? [indiscernible] we really need to get rid of this. host: sarah westwood, a number of different issues, including the decision by the fcc. guest: that was such an interesting episode.

there was so much national attention. mondaya more early as and regulation of of the internet or never seen so much attention being paid to the fcc, a usually neglected small commission, but a lot of people had strong feelings about net neutrality. i think some late-night talkshow hopes helped bring attention to this issue, but it is not surprising that the fcc can done against net neutrality. that is what they signaled they would do. it brought of a larger conversation about how much power these unelected commission's do have, because conservatives typically really oppose the fact that these regulatory bodies have much power. you saw liberals say, hey, maybe we should not have these unelected bureaucrats be able to make policies. it was interesting to see the sights sort of slipped on the issue of net neutrality. host: bill from pennsylvania on

our democrat line. caller: good morning. mary chrismas. listen, -- merry christmas. listen, when anything happens with taxes, i have to go to my cfo. that is my wife. she has done my family taxes for the last 26 years. when i check with my cfo, my cfo says this is a big deal for us because the standard deduction is being doubled. id she told me, she said, think we will probably safe between $1000 and $2000. say that anytime i hear that news, i am happy. here, i am one of the democrats here in pennsylvania that voted for donald j. trump, and one reason i did is because he was not part of the establishment. i can't tell you, -- i can tell

you, this was once a great manufacturing city here in the manynia, and fracturing here has gone down and down and down. i saw statistics a couple days ago where the have been over 170,000 manufacturing jobs created since trump took over. host: we welcome your comments on twitter, as well, @cspanwj. this is from a caller in georgia, and they said georgia has only one carrier. steve says that democrats deserve to be thrown out in 2018 if they do not get resolution on daca. "the wall street journal" looking into congressional elections next year. democrats widen the lead, according to a news poll. democrats poll said and 39% said republicans, and

than1-point lead is wider the advantage democrats held in october, the first double-digit advantage for the party since 2008. anna edgerton, going into 2018, what doesn year, republican leadership in the house and senate want to get done before campaign season starts and it is impossible to get things done? guest: getting this tax bill through. like the last caller said, he thinks he will see between $1000 , and it is important for republicans to have that in place on january 1 so the economy will start responding and people will start seeing bigger paychecks in february. by the time he gets to november, hopefully the economy will show signs of responding to this tax bill and they will have something to show for it. however, the president is a very

controversial figure and will likely feature largely in next year's midterm elections. you will have republicans either trying to take up his mental or distance fromor him, depending on the state. host: anna westwood, after the roy moore loss last tuesday, you had a piece that said the white house is not changing the candidate endorsement process. president trump tweeting this morning about his endorsement of winning gop candidates. tothe president is expected go campaign for candidates and do more of his rallies next year? guest: i think a lot of republicans viewed the alabama race as a once in a generation screwup. roy moore was a uniquely flawed candidate. they do not seen a blame in themselves. it was not president trump who presidency.re's

president trump is more popular in alabama than almost any other state. the race, and they do not see a reason why to change the game plan when it comes to choosing candidates. moore's primary opponent. so i think the white house sees this as a one-off, and they can head into 2018 and make better decisions about candidate selections. more minutes with sarah westwood of the "washington examiner" and anna edgerton of bloomberg, talking about the week ahead in congress and washington. funding running up at midnight on friday. president trump expected to leave friday for his winter vacation. we welcome your phone calls. , republicans. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents and others, 202-748-8002.

independent line, palmdale, california, harold. caller: where does the money come from to pay government employees for their benefits and wages? why aren't they more productive? host: is that a rhetorical question? what is your point, harold? my point is we probably should not pass this tax bill because they would not be able to afford to stay in business if they do not get their wages brought up and there and if it's. host: marianne in illinois on our democrat line. and thankod morning, you for taking my call. i am 53 years old, a single mother. i am living in the state of 1986.is since about i came from a small town in ohio , a major steel town.

i remember watching the iran contra hearings of reagan and our town waiting for the trickle-down effect. i can go to my hometown in ohio now, and the same streets you not have sidewalks that did not have them when i was a kid. work.to illinois for i raised five children here in illinois. not on welfare, did not get help. when mr. george bush took office, he promised in his primaries that he would put one million new homeowners in homes in his presidency. he did. he did a lot of good for us, didn't he? everybody lost money. everybody's homes were messed up. blah blah blah. he got in with a surplus and left us with a massive deficit. i want everybody to remember the gulf oil spill is because he released regulations, ok? what i will tell you about this

tax bill, because it happened to me when bush did it, he is going to give tax breaks to the upper middle-class and the wealthiest people in the country. he is going to put that burden on the lowest income people in the country. the first year george bush took office, i was a single mother with five kids. any taxes,lly owed but i did not get no taxes back. i filed earned income credit at the end of the year, and maybe i did $100. right? so the first year george bush took office, that lousy little 100 dollar refund, because of his textbooks to the wealthy -- also all right, the bill includes a boost to the child tax credit. is that likely to win over people like her? guest: not necessarily. over somely to win more centrist republicans in the

senate. i think that is what it was designed to do, make it more palatable to republicans who were not going to vote for it. the refundable portion was only raised by $300 through marco rubio's decision to withhold his support until a change. it was not necessarily a huge boost, that it was doubled from $1000 to $2000. host: anna edgerton, what did you hear from our caller? guest: she has a good point in that a lot of this tax bill will benefit the wealthy. individuals will benefit not just from the lower rate on the individual site but also lower rates for corporations and so-called pass-through businesses, partnerships, limited liability companies. those rate cuts will be permanent. what you see over the next decade is the benefits for the

middle-class, even affluent and lower-class people, would receive from the tax bill will diminish over the next decade. for corporations and wealthy individuals, those will be more breaks for the people who probably need them least. host: there is an ongoing story with new allegations every day. this is the front page of "usa today are co- more allegations expected but no protocols in place. the latest over the weekend is a congressman from nevada saying he is not going to run in 2018, and there were allegations against him, certainly reports. the administration committee and the house meeting last week about the issue. not going away through was of concrete action might congress take in terms of the house and senate to address this issue?

facebook.com/cspan houston -- leadership has had cases where the ethics committee investigated and cleared them, but allegations kept coming. a congressman eventually said he would not run for reelection. so there is a certain invousness and congress -- congress and from people who are not know if maybe innocent actions could be misinterpreted by someone or it could even be weaponize to score a political hit job against people. harassmentl allegations hounded the president during the campaign and resurfaced again for many of the latest stories. they were fended off by sarah sanders at the white house. what do you see ahead in terms

of this issue for the white house? not just for the president but others in the administration -- what action might they be taking? guest: this has always been a difficult subject for president trump to approach, because he is not a credible spokesman for the party on sexual harassment due to the fact he has his own accuser's. there is the obvious exception to the rule, the "access hollywood" tape, but the white house still has wiggle room to meanit, but it does not president trump can or should be the republican that speaks out about this. it has been a fine line for the white house to work. but when president trump weighed in on the al franken resignation , when the first photograph and allegations came out, he weighed in on that. host: a call from new york on the independent line. caller: i have one comment and one question.

when they think about entitlement reform, they are never talking about how much we pay for those things. medicare and social security are not really entitlements. there is something we are buying on an installment plan. they never talk about lowering those. they only talk about giving back some of what we have paid over a lifetime. the second thing is, have a question. you talk about many things in the tax bill that will be sunsetted. what specifically are those things? i assume, but you ladies are probably more informed, that that will drive up the impact on the middle-class rather significantly. host: they are not tax reporters specifically. anna edgerton? guest: there is a sense of that will affect individuals, the actual rate cuts.

so the rate cuts they had, in each of the tax brackets ahead a lower rate, that will go back up after 2025. andver, congressmen senators have set a future congress will want to avoid that fiscal cliff, and they will in of maintaining those tax cuts. so you're kind of betting on the cowardice of a future congress to maintain those cuts for individuals. however, that will have an even greater deficit impact than what is advertised now. ofhad a good point, the some these programs, especially social security, are not entitlements. these are things that people pay into. so a lot of the conversation i think we will see next year will be reforming things like tryinge and medicaid and to, as house republicans will say, move people from welfare to work. host: sarah westwood, fair to say that the administration got their number one priority in the reduction of the corporate tax rate?

guest: that is fair to say. it is the number one thing. president trump truly believed it will encourage families to do more hiring. --re is repeat creation repatriation and eliminating or reducing attacks they would face when they bring earnings back to the united states. these are the kind of things the president hopes will start the process of creating more jobs in the economy. and what republican say it will achieve, they say it will be remembered as a great victory for the white house. many say the growth projections are little too optimistic thomas so it could be a weight heading into 2018 and 2020. host: a call from maryland on the democrat line. caller: thank you for taking my call. want to know what

happened to the republican -- they have talked about the deficit. [indiscernible] going to create more deficit. host: i am going to let you go. you are breaking up a little bit. i think he is asking about the republican deficit hawks. will be a lot more concerned about spending and cutting costs on the spending side, rather than the tax revenue site. believeblicans, they they will get increased tax revenue from a faster economy, and that is kind of what they are betting on. there is selling point to counter criticism is that this would add to the deficit. host: people reading "the washington post," children cannot wait -- the holiday season, congress cannot leave town without ending beings

anxiety of children and pregnant women who depend on the children's health insurance program. congress allowed funding to allow chip to expire. we have to make things right for our kids. will this be taken up this week? guest: i think it is one of the symptoms of a really partisan congress. this was never controversial before. the program had bipartisan support. it has not been completely reauthorized because it is seen as a bargaining chip in the spending discussion. so what the december 8 continuing resolution did is extent emergency funding for this program. the house proposal has their own health insurance proposal for children that would make cuts to other health care programs. s that iso a solution that is not very attractive to democrats in the senate. it will probably have to be changed to get through the upper chamber. host: president trump was lobbying -- has the white house

weighed in on the chip issue? guest: i think the white house does want to see chip passed. against theted extension because they do not like the way it was funded. so it is both sides playing a little bit of partisan politics. republicans wanted to shine a light on the fact that it was democrats who voted away the extension, because the talking points of democrats focused on republicans abstracting it. host: joe is in rockford, michigan, republican line. caller: yeah, hi. the channel every morning to msnbc and cnn and c-span, and one thing you all have in common is that every to run you find reasons the republicans and trump into the ground.

can't any republicans make it to defendir republicans and donald trump? thank you. host: last thoughts on what you see ahead for these final five days. guest: i think no congressman or senator from either party wants to stay in washington through christmas. that was sort of the logic of setting the expiration of the cr because they22, knew the timing would force their hand to come up with some sort of solution. goould be shocked if it did into a shutdown because there is so much momentum behind getting some don't, and i think -- done, and ithing think republicans are poised to have a big celebration when they send a tax bill to the president's desk. guest: the victory for republicans this week will be the tax bill, and they are expected to pass it. it will be a big celebration for them. but you will see the economic

effects of this, and it might not be the sound economic policy they say it will be. host: anna edgerton for bloomberg, she is on twitter. sarah westwood, white house reporter for the "washington examiner." thanks to both of you for coming by this morning. host: ahead, we will provoke calls. we will go to open phone calls for a moment. (202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8000, democrats. (202) 748-8002, independent callers. steele will beby here with us to talk about the state of race in america.

>> tuesday, congress begins final debate on tax reform. watch live coverage of the debate and vote on c-span and c-span2. lissa laurent on the free c-span radio app. -- listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> tonight on the communicators, brian from the washington post talks about overturning net neutrality. >> the question here is whether or not the rules that were put 18 aree in 2000 appropriate for the new era. and by rolling the back, whether we are going to see whether or the new rules we will be

living under are appropriate for the moment we are living in. about having to pay to reach consumers. that is a pretty big fear. not so much the bigger guys who have the money and who could paint that some of the smaller websites as well. read it -- they have been active in this space. because if they have to pay a toll, it will hurt them. they can't afford to do that. .> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. host: a few minutes to take your phone calls. (202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8000, democrats. (202) 748-8002 independent callers and others. later today, trump will be making a speech in announcing his u.s. national security

that'll be live on c-span 2 and on c-span.org and on the c-span radio app. the washington times headlines, trump -- climate change from the threat list. protecting economic power. and you can read more from the washington times online. first up. william in south bend? go ahead. caller: yes. host: you are on the air. caller: i fail to see how this tax bill helps the poor when the money has already been spent that they say they are getting extra in the paycheck. and there is no gain to be made for them. so what is being left out of the bill is "for the people, by the

nobody iscause talking to the actual poor people who had been raised in that generation -- they never could get ahead. you are fighting against something to of already lost. so you are not helping the next generation. and that is my point on that. we hear from charles next from virginia. caller: yes, bill? i want to inform you and all the people out there -- i am a 75-year-old man and i have my telling merity -- what my cost of living increase was going to be. i opened it up and i was reading it and i almost fell out of the car when i saw my increase of 2% would have given me $27 and more

a month on my social security. guess what? bill and you folks out there? if you are worried about the tax bill, here is what they did to the senior citizens. i'm going to get out of the $27 dollar.ly one the $26 additional will be paying for my increase on medicare. so it is a hose job. and the government and the people that are running it are to be watched. and watch out for the tax cut business because there are a lot of shenanigans going on. -- in the the 2% future, any time when i hear the cost of living or how the government is going to help us, beware. because i cannot believe that out of the $27 i am going to get one dollar.

it was all done for one reason. and that was to give them the capability to increase the premiums on medicare. if we didn't get a cost of living that they couldn't have pulled off what they did. any: have you talked to friends or peers in the same situation? increase in social security matched by the increase in your medicare? there in shock. they can't believe what has happened to them. and they can't believe the government has happened to do this to the old people. mean, i can make it. i can take this. but what i am getting at is, who can you trust anymore? lou -- this is lou in greenlawn. caller: it is always an honor to to you.l to talk

i wish for peace on earth and i wish everybody would try to get along a little bit better in america. and i pray for a great future. let trump try to do his job. thank you. to the democrats line in indianapolis. caller: good morning, everybody. just a basic comment regarding the tax reform. republicans will celebrate and it is going to pass but for millions of blue-collar people who are living in nine to five jobs, they are going to be affected. there is no guarantee that they're are going to bring jobs back from overseas.

they're going to take the tax break. the children about -- a lot of children in this country live below the poverty line. and -- the 1%, bernie sanders, my hero said that. democrat or republican. past representatives. democrats need to sit down and think about our future. our message is old. we have to from the bottom. host: it is open phones here until 9:20.

this is the front page of the dallas morning news courtesy of the museum -- is gop ramping up the tax bill on mueller? below that, reporting on the tax bill in washington. ohio, elizabeth

on the independent line. go ahead. mute yourthat you television. then, go ahead with your comment. caller: good morning, everybody. -- [indiscernible] don't know exactly what they're going to be but if they take them away, even with the next -- is a the tax efforts i came out of an abusive relationship and i had to live three hours from anybody that i knew. you have to make sure you are following the rules and doing what the system is set for. when -- in need.

the child support, i have to drive two hours. so i take nothing, i paid for it for gas. so if they take child support, it could be clothes or anything because if the mom had to move away. i wish with that program, they would do different situations. host: here is how things are changing in the tax credit. the side-by-side comparison. the child tax credit, $1000 currently but with the 2000 dollars under the new law at the new bill. the child tax credit would double and it has eight large itup fund will portion -- has a large refundable portion.

the new level is $1400. we go to maryland. on the republican line. go ahead. to -- try let's go that one? maryland. go ahead. caller: hello. , when guestsomment come on and use words like weaponize or hit job -- you know or they are leaning. -- one, we comments have to wait see what is in the tax bill in order to see exactly how it will shape out. youy pelosi said it best --

have to know what is in it. this is somebody who is financially astute at what i do. the issue of sexual harassment happening in congress -- there are so far behind that they are mandating that other companies actually have -- on these kinds of things to ensure that these do not happen. there are laws against it that make it illegal. saying -- oh, if we do that comment no worries. neutrality, everyone knows that is going to be bad for business across the board. so the hoopla about net neutrality doesn't matter in my opinion. and we have elected officials making it -- consequences that they didn't have no idea about the -- about what is going to

happen. so a lot of things are going on in this country. people are just complaining and whining about it. do is putneed to things into action, individually. don't expect the government will take care of it. d.c., theyashington, have been told that the tolls will not cost that much. but -- that shows you how messed up the government is in terms of taking care of people. this is the headline in usa today -- president trump, no plans to fire mueller.

host: walter is next in texas. good morning. caller: i would like to say one thing. would havet obama done one fourth of the things that trump has done, he would have been impeached. -- everybody can listen to this man and see what he has done. we all know there is something wrong with this man. we all know that. and i believe that everybody who agrees with trump is complicit in whatever he does. and i hope he doesn't start a war. because the people and the soldiers and the people in south korea -- they are going to be dead. and if we do this then something is wrong. we need to impeach this man.

get him out of office. he should have never been there. there is something wrong with him. in jackson, mississippi. we hear from john. are you there? jackson, michigan. michigan. go ahead. caller: i was just going to comment on the 2% increase on social security. saying that something has got to be done. because for three years now, we for whatever-- they want to do and i am sick and tired of hearing about that. , he hashat johnson private, social security.

and he used the general funds to you,-- and i can't tell the government to start getting wiser. people, i talked to, we want to get them out of office. -- and that is just about what i want to say right now. host: this is from breitbart this morning. writing about the president's national security speech today. saying that trump has a strategic competitor in national security. saying that trump will name china as a strategic competitor in the forthcoming strategy to be unveiled monday.

host: in reminder, we will cover the president speech this afternoon and it will be live on c-span 2. is randy in pennsylvania on the democrat line. caller: three years ago, it was ruled that corporations are people. aren't corporations taxed at the same rate as people? because according to the supreme court, they are people. thank you.

host: james is next in virginia. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. one comment. a little bit of history. israel going about back to jerusalem. -- long before anybody else had it. he gave it to him. and the term palestine, in in a way toinvented condemn them were hurt their feelings because -- under siege by rome. that is history. and democrats oppose muslims. people who surround

they havethere -- just absorbed the palestinians and given them the pre-state they want. host: that is james in virginia. up next, we focus on the issue the issue. we will be joined by shelby steele who will talk about affirmative action. all of that is ahead. communicators,he the washington post and politico talk about the vote to overturn net neutrality. >> the question here is whether or not the rules put in place in

2015 are appropriate for the new era. and in some ways, by rolling back, whether we are actually going to see the new rules that we will be living under, see if they are appropriate for the moment we are living in. >> tech companies are concerned about having to pay to reach consumers. that is a big fear. butso much the big guys some of the smaller websites as well. they have been active in this space because they say that they have to pay toll and it will hurt us, they can't afford to do that. >> watch "the communicators" tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 2. tuesday, congress begins final debate on tax reform with republicans expecting a debate

-- expecting eight vote before christmas. watch live coverage of the vote and the debate on c-span. listen live on the c-span radio app. watch live coverage at c-span.org/congress. >> washington journal continues. host: here on washington journal, we will talk about the role of affirmative action in public education. woodson,ined by robert founder of the woodson center. and joining us via skype is shelby steele. thank you for taking the time to be with us this morning. yearirst semester of the in college comes to a close with from their first semester, robert woodson, remind us again about the role of affirmative action in education? place? it put into

guest: the whole issue of race and affirmative action -- those of us like myself, a veteran of the civil rights action, we fought to end discrimination. we were trying to level the playing field. we wanted equal opportunity to achieve. affirmative action was put into place in certain situations to be a temporary measure. for instance, in a town with 50% people inthere are the fire departments and police than i think you have to take remedial action to remedy that. but it should not be a transportation system and that is what we have done. we have morphed it into a transportation system. the gainsonsequence, of the civil rights movement has been perverted and hijacked by

people who are using this as a crygeon against those who racism at every turn. host: give us an example of those instances where you say it is being used? yes go in the education system. the obama administration in 2014 decided there was a disparity in the number of black children who school.uspended from as a consequence, they concluded that it had nothing to do with the behavior of the children that it had to do with the racial attitude of the teachers and principals. so they mandated that they change this. , principalssequence were rewarded for reducing the number of behavioral referrals. and suspensions went down but violence went up. because they felt as though they had no sanctions.

it is interesting, disparity is defined as injustice but when you realize that disparity, when it comes to athletics, blacks serving on a varsity football nfl -- is% in the that because of discrimination? or is it disparity contributed to injustice? no. it ist is positive individual effort but when it is negative it is racism. host: shelby steele joining us, robert woodson use that term "leveling the playing field." has it been levels? guest: absolutely not. after 50 years, of affirmative universitiesnts at the lowest grade

point average and highest dropout rate. before there was anything like affirmative action and there was a hesitancy to allow blacks to go to college, they were performing slightly lower than white's and graduated four years later slightly higher than white. this was in the age of segregation. so affirmative action has been a profound psychological perversion for black students, especially. because it simply says, you are here because you are black. you are not here because you achieved excellence or because you develop as an individual. you are here because you are black. thathat is the exact role segregation followed. we are segregating against you because you are black.

tragically, this mimics racism. mimicked segregation. reinstated it and gave it a legitimacy in our american life so that good people today it should be used to determine rather than individual merit. host: let's give our viewers a definition. what is affirmative action as the national state legislature? they say it is those policies when which an institution actively engages in efforts to improve opportunities for excluded groups in society. affirmative action often focuses on employment and education. in institutions of higher education, affirmative action relates to admission to those groups that have been excluded or underrepresented.

robert woodson. guest: let's talk about the applications of that. what they did was that there was something called race norming. where they would say. blacks getst that if 20% less -- they could get 20% less. they could take the test that everybody is taking but you get higher points. so that is one of the reasons that we have this kind of disparity. host: what we do about the issues that you are pointing out -- where is the solution? ifformative action -- affirmative action is not working, what is the next step? shelby steele? guest: this problem has gotten

very deep. it involves the black identity itself. when you have a society that is then thatn the past society becomes more preoccupied with its own clearing of its own name from the shame of racism. action --ffirmative designed to help institutions guarantee to the public that they are not racist. they have absolutely nothing to do with black students. and so they simply don't work. tell -- because you are a victim. this is what america has done over the last few years. communicate over and over again thelack americans that

essence of who you are is your history of victimization. not your talents as an individual. not principles. not the fact that your people survived for centuries of abuse. that is not you. you are here because you are a victim. and so the motivations for this --lic policy are so [indiscernible] host: breaking up a little bit shelby steele. we will keep you on the line and open up our lines for the c-span listeners. (202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8000, democrats. (202) 748-8002, independent callers and all others. pick up on his comments -- on

making individual black students victims -- portraying them as victims. guest: it is even more insidious than that. even some black are sayingllectuals that part of black culture is that if a student is disruptive, if a student is resistive, that ist of black culture -- that destructive. because there are important lessons from the past. people in my generation and before, between 1920-1940 in the , the difference between white education was eighth grade with blacks at fifth grade. in less than 40 years, the gap closed within six months and that is the cause of what black

america did within itself. the challenge in luck america is how to make freedom a blessing for ourselves. we understood that our destiny is determined by what we did and america did.e and that hard work and discipline is being drummed out of black america and it is being dismissed. host: we have a number of calls. let's go to the first call from john. you are on the error with shelby steele and robert whitson. caller: i belong to a union in detroit. with promotions and transfers and stuff and the city didn't like that.

frasery got douglas because of the united auto workers -- testify against our --on and against our seeing against our system. everyeally shocked me was -- notews organizations one of them would run that story. the system,e -- did was it based on race? the seniority system? caller: it was based on seniority. who had been there the longest. host: we hear you. inm going to pick up minneapolis. william, you are on the air. go ahead. caller: i have a comment.

and then i have a question. affirmative action -- black side in this country for rights. , andith affirmative action and itpresented group was co-opted by other groups but it should have specifically been for blacks. so i think affirmative action didn't do a lot to help in this country. it didn't help me. i went to an all-black college. host: what is your question? guest: -- caller: going forward, and i can only speak for black students

but going forward, immigrants in country are doing better than blacks in this country. everybody comes to the country is doing better than blacks. we need to start addressing this specifically. how do you go about doing that? host: shelby steele is back and is joining us now. why don't you take the answer first? guest: he mentioned immigrants doing better than black americans which is absolutely true. sad to say. countryts come to this without -- [indiscernible] -- host: i'm sorry, we have a bad connection. guest: if you look at the

immigrants and it is comparable to whites so if racial discrimination was related struggling to race, you wouldn't expect those groups to be achieving on par with whites. so that is one of the facts of life. host: why is that? guest: even with the social justice worries of the day, they are bringing down the expectations for blacks living here. it isnow, -- says linguistic racism to expect blacks to speak standard english. it is racism to expect blacks to respond to meritocracy. in other words, you have a black social justice kind of tyranny denigrating low income black people at the expense of their future. and so black america has a problem confronting the enemy within. and i think it needs to be more

important. instead of complaining about white people, we should talk about how if we accomplish these great things, building hotels and business centers at a time of segregation when shelby and i were in school, thank god we were taught under a system of segregation. because we had to work hard. and so that attitude of self-sufficiency and independence needed to be promoted right now. more than any other time. host: here is randy in iowa on the democrat line. the head. caller: how are you doing? doing fine. future television. mute your television. host: randy in iowa?

go ahead. caller: hello. all right, we will let you go. we go to michigan. go ahead. caller: ok. i have a question for shelby steele. i remember listening to a presentation as long ago as maybe 20 years. by somebody with the same name in which the iq test was used to test groups of black americans -- equivalent groups, whether given, this test was to test intelligence and then they were told that the test was used to test -- it was simply a game. -- when they told

were told it was a game, they fared better. you familiar with the study? was this you? or somebody else? can you comment on this? host: shelby steele, go ahead. guest: i'm not familiar with the study but it is explainable that when you say it is a game, you remove the anxiety. when you relax, you do better. if you check into the instance again,sm, then once there is an insistence in our culture now to any weakness or blackt perceived in the community, especially, has to be compulsively attributed to white racism. whites feel like they have so little moral authority

to speak on racial issues that they given to that. and the next thing you know, you have another affirmative-action program. which communicates to blacks that you are victims again. victims can't do anything. we talk a immigrants. the reason immigrants are so successful in american life is because they ask a lot from the individual. they say, your contribution to the group is that you achieve something. in your own life. you make something out of yourself. you fight to get ahead in american life. and when we have now growing in black america is the idea that the only way ahead is through protest. host: shelby steele is joining us from california. among his books are "the content in our character." robert whitson is here.

brought you to together? you come from different political views. friend point of you. guest: what we are finding out the woodson center right now is that we are being compelled to either be a supporter of the grievance industry or you are a protagonist. and we believe there is a third way. and so we at the woodson center established a coalition of free speech with civil rights coalition to restore the civil rights movement and we have attracted people like red wine -- we are bringing people left and right and center are reallyo disturbed by the direction in which the country is moving on race. we are having sensible discussions about how we returned to the content of our policyer as the central with which we approach race.

host: you mentioned immigrants. nigerian and jamaican immigrants than nativeborn african-americans. how can your organization and others make those groups, the immigrants, more allies in your cause rather than the appointing of, oh, immigrants do better than us. guest: what we do is have immigrants -- is we have people going to the communities. we have people who are dropping out of school because of jail and drugs. -- two daughters being raised in a car at a homeless shelter but these kids go on to college. we need to find out for people like that -- how did they

achieve against the odds? it is they are living by the values and traditions that shelby and i both believe. him ine will get back to a minute. we will get him on the phone line and have him on with us but let's get back to your calls. to georgia on the independent line. we lost her. let's go to arlene in cleveland. caller: hello? host: hello. make sure you mute your television. guest: i'm so glad to talk to you two gentlemen. i volunteered in our schools as a foster grandparent. they are terrible. our kids are not learning a darn thing. i am from pittsburgh. i never went to a black school. i never went to a black teacher and it didn't matter. peoplemanded that black

achieve just like white people. i can't believe what has happened to our people. back to being colored. when i was colored, we didn't do this. we had good schools. we didn't behave like they do today. there were fathers in the home. and another thing i want to tell you is that my mother had six brothers. four of them born before the 20th century. i've a picture of my uncle bob who was a rough rider under teddy roosevelt. work for who went to the oil company. host: we will let you go there and we will hear from shelby steele. joining us on the phone from california. your reaction to what you are hearing? it is an interesting reaction. i relate to what she is saying.

myself, i started out in segregated schools and then i went to a white one and the teachers there, as the caller just mentioned, treated me exactly the same as everybody else. were the same. if i made mistakes, they would say a made a mistake. they would look for a cultural explanation. mistake, fixade a it. i got the benefit of that. if i come along a few years later when affirmative-action began to be in place, i would have been kicked up into schools that were a little bit beyond my reach, in order to allow those schools to prove that they were not racist. a i would be used by liberalism, a policy of liberalism, that he uses blacks to achieve innocence. and power. on the american left.

i would be victimized in that sense by liberalism. by the whole set of views that insists on me being a victim. well, the teachers back when i was a kid -- god bless them. i don't know whether they were racist or not. they expected the same performance for me that they did from anybody else and that was the beginning and the end of it. we have lost that. you cannot lose a more precious thing. the living in a system society that respects you as an individual. going to be black. i was born black. i'm going to die black. what is important is the individual i become. and we need a system that supports that. host: joining us on the phone is shelby steele and in the studio with us is robert whitson, the founder of the woodson center in

the nation's capital, talking about education, affirmative-action and minority education in particular. we hear next from beverly on the democrat line. beverly go ahead. caller: thank you for your the problemsout with affirmative-action. i know that the woodson center -- well, you have talked about solutions that the woodson center is looking at. but i guess my question is, what organizations or groups have already produced results for other organizations and groups that are producing good results for people? well, most of those our local groups. a group, for instance, i just left there, hope for prisoners in nevada.

leadership provided with 1900 people coming out of prison who are working and taking care of families with only a 6% re-commitments rate. we have endless examples of people who are taken these all values and applied them to a new vision. we have hundreds of groups throughout our country who are in san antonio texas who has helped in the recovery of thousands of people from drug and alcohol abuse. there are a lot of examples of people in these neighborhoods who are really taking charge of their lives. and the woodson center has 2000 states that we work and provide assistance to those groups. our focus is exclusively on solutions. bet is where we need to focusing our attention. host: shelby steele, i will let you answer that as well.

the two of you come together on this issue? well, i have known bob for many years. our paths have crossed. in washingtonntly at an event at the heritage foundation and we reconnected. and this is the first i've heard -- hat he host: i'm sorry, we have lost children seal. we will get them back on the line. let's go to sarah in new york. hello, sarah? ew york? caller: how are you? i have two items. -- i have two idols. one is michelle obama and the other is elizabeth warren.

both are students of affirmative-action. grow in to want to order to do it. you have to have a drive. it doesn't matter where you come from. a little bit of help goes a long way. and i am so proud of those women. game. top of their and all they do is give back. host: thank you for your call. she mentioned michelle obama. how is the trump administration and their approach to this issue any different than what happened in the obama administration? guest: unfortunately the department of education has continued those policies and we do hope to reach out to secretary betsy devos to see if they can correct this and change

what the obama administration did. because it is wreaking havoc on the education system. coming are afraid of forth to complain publicly for fear of having this racial -- around their neck, being accused of racism. we can't really have an honest discussion of race unless whites can best to the privilege and blacks confess to being a victim. you either have to agree with that or they call you a racist. and that has to change. and i think it is within our power to change it. this is something the justice department is looking at. ,he headline in last week harvard. writing that the justice department is investigating the university's use of race in admissions and warning the school that it is out of compliance with federal law because it has not provided the department

requested. what do you know of that case? guest: i don't know specifically about the case but i spoke at harvard kennedy school last year and i was appalled at what i saw. there were that black scholars making presentations on poverty over the course of two days and none of the students challenged any of the statements made. and when i asked the statements -- and when i asked the students why there was not a debate, they said they couldn't challenge and stay there. i feel sorry for minority students in these elite universities because liberal teachers who are so guilt ridden will not judge them fairly. if they need to be corrected, they are not. they go through grade inflation. and i think that is a profound disservice to the students who black because they are

and they don't perform, that it is racist if i hold them to the same standards as white. host: let's go to mary in wisconsin. caller: years ago, schools were different when students were taught the 10 commandments. thou shall not steal. there was a lot less violence back then. and it has done such a disservice to the underprivileged in the world. because they took out the religion and that was the only port that was holding both races together area to be kind to one another. that is a factor. if they can't get kind of the home than they have to get it in the environment where they spend the majority of their time. i truly believe this would make a huge difference in this world. i think they should try it. it is something that holds and binds everything together. a peaceful community.

host: what has changed in the education system in the last 30 -- 30 years. guest: white guilt. within halfowledged in the 1960's. america has struggled to make up for what he did. and it has blinded them. it has blinded america to the humanity of the people there trying to help. uc students in places like harvard and stanford and other universities.

whether universities care about is that they are there. they don't care about them as human beings. don't ask anything of them. they don't have principles of excellence. they don't ask for performance. them.uthlessly use they exploit them. worse than racism ever did. at least at the end of the day with racism, you still possessed your own life. here, you owe your life to white liberalism. in our of race problems world today come from the unexamined phenomenon of white guilt. again, what upsets me as a black american is that my people get used. all over again.

you see the black lights that you i feel so sorry for the young people lost in this idea that they only have a personality of victimization. how can they get ahead. in the end, it is obsolete. it has no relevance to the challenges they face. if you look at the grade point averages, if you look at the performance levels, worst in the university system. what does white guilt have to say about that? host: what is your view of the black lives matter movement? guest: the question is, what are the solutions? what do they want? there is no answer to that. i agree with shelby. denigrated black

rights. this is what we have to confront. this is a victim that has to get up. and that'll think we are doing that. this is another reason. we went from 1000 elected officials. theks are running all of systems. the mayor's office and the education system. all of it is run by blacks. trillion, more money than we have used to execute all of the wars. but it continues to deteriorate. and rather than confronting the reality, they use it to say it is institutional is. how white people control

black people treat one another. and it is really a distraction howa way of preventing these can be made. not clear why the african-americans are blacks -- they have access or they rub elbows, they rub elbows with those in power. why are black issues constantly a public issue when everybody is dealing with the same issues? and blacks representative if they are the only ones with the issue? and if they want to solve an issue, why are they not solving it in the community? why is it not a public issue? why not work within the

community, first. and then let people learn different things. learn different skills. and have people come out publicly and let them express themselves? theic these years from 1930's-19 70's, black issues have been this or that. everybody in the country has dealt with the same stuff. drugs, alcohol, domestic issues. we deal with the same stuff that blacks are dealing with. but it sounds like blacks are the only ones dealing with this. get a response from shelby steele joining us on the phone from california. have grown wary of that word. we are just talking about black america, black americans. who come from that background. is thaty difficulty

white america has ended up in its hunger for redemption, enabling any number of bad habits and that points of commu. that, i think, is the underlying problem we have with race relations. nobody come on either side, can tell the truth. blacks cannot say, i may have been victimized, but i am not a victim. .top using me as a victim stop the silly, patronizing public policies that do nothing but humiliate me. whites cannot say i do not believe in the way you are living. i don't believe in black lives matter. i think america is freer than it has ever been in its history and you have every opportunity to achieve anything you want in american life. nobody has the courage to say so we keepious and

pretending it's other issues and if we could just get this straightened up -- straightened out or that straightened out -- drugs and alcohol straightened out, affirmative action straightened out. my advice to black americans is to take your own life and make something of it. ralph ellison said it better than it will ever be said, the challenge is not to create the uncreated features of your race, it is to create the uncreated features of your face. host: your thoughts? guest: i cannot agree more, but there is a huge division within the black community. not all blacks are the same. only 2 out of 10 whites with college education work for the government. 6 out of 10 blacks with a college education works for government. we are manning the infrastructure that works for the poor.

-- a is structural moratorium on complaining about white people and let's have sessions around the country where we discuss what we can do whether white people change or not. if our forebears can create hotels and blacks started their own railroad in every city -- we had our own hotels. if we could achieve in the face of segregation, why can't we do it now when conditions are much better? i don't think there's very much toe white people can do change it. the challenge is within the black community to address its own problems. host: robert woodson is family and founder -- founder of the woodson center. joining us earlier -- we apologize for the signal out there. hopefully we can have both of you back and both of you can be in studio.

shelby steele, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. host: and robert woodson, we appreciate having you here as well. that will do it for this morning's "washington journal." we want to take you live to an event looking at the middle east. the washington institute traveled to the capital of saudi arabia and the united arab emirates to meet with senior leaders and engage with local society and learn about the changes underway in each country. their discussion should get underway shortly. we will see you tomorrow morning on "washington journal." [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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announcer: once again, a live

picture from the washington institute for middle east policy. we are here for a discussion looking at the future of foreign policy among middle east nations with a focus on saudi arabia, , and the united arab emirates. they look like they are a little late getting started. they are supposed to start at 10:00. we will have live coverage shortly. look at the week ahead in congress from this morning's "washington journal." >> and edgerton joined us. reporter -- house congressional reporter for bloomberg here to talk about the week ahead and what a week is likely to be with a lot to get done. we talked with our viewers and listeners in the first hour , but ahe tax reform bill lot of other materials on the table as well. first of all, your impression, as the year began, did either of you expect the week before christmas there would be so much to get done in the last week, --

not even week, but five days? republicans started this legislative year with high hopes about what they were going to be able to get done. there was talk of trying to get an infrastructure package, tax reform, health care reform and they are just barely going to be able to get one of those things over the finish line. so i don't think republicans have correctly assessed how challenging it would be to get things through the senate. host: as you are covering the halls of congress, did you see this big ball of things rolling for the end of the year? were you expecting to be reporting from the capital in the last week before christmas? guest 1: i think because they weren't able to get some of those other things done, passing tax reform because all the more important because they have to have something to show their first year in united government and the tax bill checks off a lot of -- conservative priorities and give them's -- gives them talking points to say

they could accomplish something. it will not get the simplicity they had hoped, but it gives them a political win if they are able to get through both chambers. host: let's start with tax reform. that is first up this week and the rules committee will meet today. the house will take it up tomorrow and maybe even the senate on tuesday. are there still potential stumbling blocks for tax reform in either the house or the senate? nothing is ever a sure thing until there are done. i don't see any pockets of resistance. it seems like they are very excited to vote on this bill. in the senate, it looks like they have the votes they need although senator john mccain will miss the vote because of treatment for his brain cancer in arizona and jeff flake is not a sure vote. they got bob corker who said he would support the bill. it looks like they are in pretty good shape, but it's not a sure

thing. host: part of the white house strategy is the vice president will be president for votes of this week. senator mcconnell -- senator mccain is not in the chamber. the vice president canceling the trip to the middle east to be at the capital for this. how else will the white house be involved in the final push to get this -- through the senate? guest 2: if any last-minute --douts need any whipping president trump has been inviting senators out the play golf, working the phones, he traveled to capitol hill physically a few times to pitch senators on their home turf. he has really been trying to be a cheerleader for this whole thing while giving senate republicans space to negotiate since the white house didn't want to see the corporate tax rate go any higher than 20% and a had to accept that will -- bill -- the white house did let

senate and house republican's negotiate the finer points and didn't try to get in the way because they knew this was going to be difficult to get through without their interference. host: it's a busy schedule for conference and we are joined by sarah westwood, white house reporter for the washington examiner and bloomberg's congressional correspondent anna edgerton. we welcome your comments on tax reform in all the issues ahead. 202-748-8001 is the number to call for republicans. democrats, use 202-748-8000. and independents and others, 202-748-8002 we will get to your calls in a moment and on twitter @cspanwj. anna edgerton, the other -- there are many things this week, but certainly what has to be done is a spending bill because the current government funding ends friday at midnight, correct? so what is tentatively the plan for republicans to continue funding? guest 1: they set themselves up for this crush right before

christmas because their last continued resolution -- the temporary funding measure only when from december 8 to december 22 so they really wanted to give taxselves time to get the bill out of both chambers. their main priority is voting on the tax bill and getting it out of congress and then they will turn their attention to spending negotiations. a's clear the tax bill is priority and the two chambers in house and senate have taken different approaches on the spending bill so they will have to try and figure out how to reconcile the two approaches and get something through both chambers before friday. is this -- particularly in the house and opportunity for the freedom caucus on the republican side and the democratic caucus in terms of their opposition to the fact that there is no -- currently there is no stipulation for the dreamers -- for the daca provisions? is this aot