this space because they say if we have to pay a toll to reach consumers, it's going to hurt us, we can't afford to do that. >> watch "the communicators," tonight at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span two. >> this week on "newsmakers," we are joined by sander levin, longtime member of the health subcommittee. >> glad to be with you once again. >> in studio with us, we have two reporters from the hill. >> nice to be with you, congressman. there's a lot of news happening on the hill and we want to talk you about the tax conference you are participating in, but some of our biggest headlines have been about the sexual harassment obligations against her colleagues, including --

allegations against her colleagues. there have been new allegations against blake farenthold. do you think of the members who have not yet resigned should resign? you have been up there a long time, what have you noticed? is this a big problem on capitol hill? >> well, it's a problem. each case has to be decided on its own. but i think they're really has to be a new day here. i think it's coming. areink the people who responsibly speaking out are doing a credit to themselves in this institution. it's not only this institution, it's lots of others. there is a new day coming, we should all hope. host: what do you mean by a new day? guest: i mean i think everyone needs to look at what our practices have been, as well as

our policies. everyone has to understand that if we really believe in equality , that means harassment has to stop. because in many respects it is the opposite of equality. that is true in certain's -- in terms of sexual harassment and and other forms. but when it comes to sexual harassment, it's a new day. to -- >> can speak you speak to the other congressman? guest: i just hope that each of them takes it very seriously. i haven't seen the latest, but as was true before, there are serious allegations down to the member to really step up to the plate. conference, the tax

when the house and the senate each voted on their separate tax bills, there were no democrats that voted for them. do you expect when the actual conference report comes out that democrats will be united in opposition to it? guest: absolutely. these two bills are atrocious. ,hen you combine two negatives you don't get a positive. you get a bigger, bigger negative. i think that will be true. they haven't shown it to us, they have excluded us. the process has been bad, but the policy has been worse. from the president i heard a quote, he said as the candidate i promise we will pass a massive tax cut for the everyday working families who are the backbone and heartbeat of our country. now we're just days away from keeping that promise, and we

want to give you, the american people, a giant tax cut for christmas or pro- the giant tax cut is going to be for the very, very wealthy. according to the bills that passed, and i do not think they will differ, millions of families, next year, 13 million are going to pay higher taxes, primarily in the middle class. 10 years from now, that figure will be 30 million paying more in taxes, while the wealthy -- and i just checked the data -- it will be for those over $1 million, they will get $73,000 in a tax cut. the republicans like to talk about averages, but when you break them down -- and i asked the head of joint tax to tell us what is behind the averages, and that is what he came out, by saying, is centrally, a lot of people are going to be paying more taxes, especially those in

the middle class, beginning a month from now, next year. >> i understand you think this conference report will be a bigger negative, but we heard of things that democrats have been calling for, like keeping student loan interest to that facility, and it will not fully repealed the estate tax. do you see some of those aspects as positive developments? congressman levin: i have heard that, and those will be improvements. so they are feeling some pressure. but overall, this bill is going to be the opposite of a major tax cut for middle income families. also, it is going to increase the deficit. mr. mnuchin put out a paper that even republican experts found was unbelievable. essentially, the deficit is going to increase by $1 trillion, and all of a sudden, republicans who used to worry

about deficit, they are essentially saying taxes will pay for themselves. that is a myth. it has been proven in recent times. and they are saying that growth will take care of the increase in the debt. but joint tax says, what is going to be the increase in growth of the next 10 years? there estimate is .8%. you divide that by 10 or however you want, and essentially, they are not telling the truth as to who will benefit, and they are grossly, grossly misstating what the realities are as to the national debt and their hope for growth. they, more than anything else, want a tax bill because they have not accomplished anything else. it is desperation. so that is why the republicans are pulling together, even those who have deep doubts about this, because they figure if they fail on this after failing on other

things, then they are going to lose the election next year. so essentially, what is driving , this is politics. its haste, which makes waste, and bad policy will turn out to be bad politics. i am convinced of that. >> something that has come up is democrat's are pushing for republicans to kind of delay the work on the tax bill until after doug jones, who won the special election in alabama, is seated, but republicans have not been very receptive to that. republicans have not been receptive to that. is that something you are continuing to push? do you think you will make any headway there? we learned levin: long ago that you can't push against the wall. you push against what's behind the wall. true.sh on what's

but we will not move them. they think that this is the 2018 election. but when people wake up to what the facts are, the same is true as to the continuing resolution. here we are, just a few days away, the 22nd it runs out. the republicans essentially don't know where they are going. and what's at stake? the chip program hasn't been renewed. they are running out of money. states are running out of money for children's health. relief.disaster as i remember, disasters happening not a week ago, they happened long ago. puerto rico and the islands. and florida and houston. and here we sit. the republicans think they can jam a cr through and we both

know that they are going to blame us when the ones who should be blamed are the ones in control. reporter: you mentioned a bunch of your end issues, but one that you didn't mention was the democratsarrivals and have been pushing hard to get that at the end of the year. do you think that that's feasible? how far do you think democrats will go? togressman levin: i wanted take that separately because it is so compelling. the republicans act as if they have never met a dreamer. as it they don't know the stories. or they know, they don't seem to care. we are talking about 800,000 people. people who came here people who came here as young children in the vast number of cases. they have shown themselves to not only be dreamers, but to

begin in hundreds of thousands of cases to fulfill the american dream. the american dream. the republicans just seem to say well, stay in suspense. it's frightful. it's insensitive. it's insensitive. i hope, essentially, that the republicans and their dreams will begin to think about the dreamers. i also hope they will go back home and this weekend they will be home. holidays, i hope they will talk to people, if they haven't acted, saying that we should act now. we should act now. the stories about the people ,eing picked up out of the blue because their parents brought , it's the opposite of

what i think america is all about. >> when you talk about them going home, sounds like you're saying we should act now but we are resigned to the fact that probably won't get run by the end of the year? congressman levin: no, i'm not resigned. that -- getit get done question mark are democrats willing to vote against it? congressman levin: i don't think the camera can show this, but we will be putting our foot down. we are going to put our foot down. to speak out.ing i'm going home, i will be home this weekend. i hope to talk further to dreamers and tell their stories. immigration policy in this administration is atrocious. another example, they picked up

110 iraqi christians, people who 20, here in most cases 12, 30 years ago. as far as we can determine of the 110, they all have children who are american citizens. now they pick them up and they are in detention? me -- i willaid to go back if they ship me back on a plane. taxi can afford to buy a or rent a car. i have no place to go. i haven't been there for 25 to 30 years. i'm an american. that's with the dreamers are saying. they are saying -- we are americans. they have been in college. many of them are working. many of them are leaders in their class. but whatever they feel, they are part of the american reality and the american dream.

and now they want to essentially say we are going to leave you hanging out there. as i said before, we will be putting both feet down and speaking out, again, as we come back on monday. reporter: you have mentioned politics a lot. how confident are you that democrats will take control of the house again after the 2018 elections? congressman levin: i'm increasingly confident and i will do everything i can. i indicated that after being here for 35 years, next year i want to run for reelection. i have my preferences as to who would succeed me. but i am confident and i will do everything i can because i just want to sum it up this way. we have found out what it's like to be in i minority. you mentioned these cases, these issues, like dreamers.

if we were in the majority, this would have been remedied long ago. we talked about health care, chip, that would have been child health remedy long ago. i'm going to go home and meet -- i'm going to be meeting this weekend with people who are really involved in rolling -- in enrolling people in the deadline and it has unfortunately been cut short. they are going to talk up what enrollment in health care has meant. the pace that has increased these last days, unfortunately the administration cut the enrollment in half, so we may end up with fewer people, but the rush to enroll shows that help is so vital in the republicans in this bill are going to make it more difficult for people to get health care and if their bill passes it's

likely going to increase the premiums, especially for older people. this tax bill is bad all around. of thelthy get most benefits while the very wealthy, those who are not wealthy at all, the middle class, they will get a small piece of it. we haven't even talked about other parts of it, like the pass. that provision is going to provide mostly help for wealthier people. it's going to be abused as they shift back and forth to take advantage of a lower tax cut, moving from noncorporate to corporate structures, i think. not only bringing about waste, but bringing about real uncertainty and, mainly the haste is going to benefit a relatively few in terms of most of the dollars.

host: we have about 10 minutes left. reporter: in texas, i don't that one thing you have been looking to do is end the carried .nterest tax break president trump had said during the campaign he wanted to get rid of that, too. it doesn't look like that's a part of the bill. how part of -- how frustrating is that for you? congressman levin: so frustrating. carried interest means that people who are putting together a deal essentially pay a lower tax than the people who wait on tables. if they do fairly well, there are others who provide services. the people providing services, instead of paying regular taxes they have been paying the capital gains tax and its lower, it's outrageous. there are a number of republicans who said so, including the president. this is an example of the president saying one thing and really it's not happening. i'm not sure he government it.

so -- go back to -- i got i got so disturbed when he said he would promise to do this for everyday working american families who are the back own and heartbeat of our country. now we are just days away from keeping that promise and we are -- that is not true. he is not keeping his promise. republicans .2, the president has done this as well, the reaction of the stock market . they say the reaction of the stock market reflects thinking that this tax cut will do, will trickle down into our economy and mean growth for the u.s. economy. congressman levin: two things. first of all, the stock market has an going on for a number of years. i don't think, as much as the president likes to take credit, he shouldn't take credit for

what happened under president obama. and it continues to happen because of president obama for policies. that, i think, is really an important point that has to be made. second, let me say a word about growth. the people who have looked at this say that this notion that tax cuts will promote growth history shows the opposite. , the joint tax committee that is neutral, and the head of it is essentially fronted by the republicans, has said that over 10 years, the increase in growth will be .8%. when you divide that into 10 years, you can see how small it is. so he is taking credit for things he is not responsible for. i hope he will acknowledge his role and things he has said and

he has done. and the election in alabama, i think, is the most recent example that he now says, well, kind of forget it. when he supported someone who was so, according to what has come forth, his conduct was so outrageous, if true, and the people who have spoken say, believe us. but the president, apparently, did not believe these people. i think this president has adopted policies and said things that are really dangerous to this country. >> congressman, a quick follow up -- you talked about your retirement, and you have mentioned you have thoughts about who will succeed you. can you talk about that? and on health care, there is the medical device tax and others that will kick in the next year, what are your thoughts on that

issue? congressman levin: as to the first, my son andy, who is a green energy entrepreneur and put forth, i think, the him strongest job training program anywhere in this country, is exploring whether he would run for governor but has decided to run in the ninth district, and i think he is immensely talented. but he will run on his own merits. he was a labor organizer and now a business entrepreneur. let me just say a word -- i guess we have to finish -- about these health issues. here is a problem, whether democrats are on some of these bills or not, we insist to people that we pay for these things, and some of these so-called health extenders, if that is what they are calling them, would cost $40 billion to $50 billion, and a do not want to pay for them?

a lot of this -- us democrats, and this goes back previous to this new fight we are having -- we said pay for these major, major provisions. there was an $800 billion tax bill last year, and a lot of us voted no even though it had some provisions that we liked, including the child tax credit improvement. but $800 billion unpaid for adding to the deficit, and i want to emphasize what happens when you increase the deficit. eventually it comes down to programs that people need, like education programs or health programs, or medicaid. the proposals from republicans are to cut medicaid. they have opposed to cut medicare by over $400 billion. so we increase the deficit that much, and essentially the

republicans say you need to cut out or cut down programs that matter to people. education. michigan education is becoming so expensive, and the state is playing less and less a percentage of the cost. this deficit, federally, is going to impact the programs that all of us very much rely on. so the debt has consequences, , including interest that we have to pay on it. and the republicans who voted to increase the deficit then say you need to cut the programs that people need as they work hard. >> we have time for one or two more questions. reporter: when it comes to taxes republicans have already said , they probably plan on doing a technical collections bill at some point after the main tax bill passes. do you think democrats will be willing to work with republicans on that? congressman levin: two things.

first, they completely shut us out. i have been at conferences which were real, and i have worked with republicans on bills that mattered. they shut us out. that is number one. number two, i think there will have to be many technical corrections. i am going to be around here fighting next year. my prediction is that they are going to have to pick up a lot of the mess, because there is so much uncertainty in this bill. i mentioned the pass-through. nobody knows how they are going to work and how much taxpayers will try to shift. the same is true of international taxation. if you move overseas, you are going to pay a lower tax rate than if you kept your business here. so it will not only be technical corrections. >> we will leave this conversa