story. it turned out to be extraordinarily dramatic memorial. american history tv this weekend only on c-span 3. c-span "washington journal" live everyday with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, journal staff newhauserent daniel and christina peterson discuss key fiscal legislative down congress.ng the and anthony will be on to talk policy challenges facing the u.s. in 2018. to watch c-span "washington journal" live at 7:00 eastern tuesday morning. discussion.

susan: our guest on "newsmakers" this week is tom steyer, the businessman, philanthropist, environmental activist has been spending much of his own money over the past year and a campaign to impeach president trump. we will talk about that effort organizationally and politically. we have two reporters here to ask questions, niall stanage and darren samuelsohn. thank you for being with us. as we get started, two questions on the mechanics. what are the numbers on your website so far? how many people have you enlisted in your campaign to impeach the president? tom: i think we are somewhere over 3.6 million people. i have not looked at it in the past couple of days. i'm sure it is over 3.6. susan: you are running ads in markets. have any stations refused to run your ad? tom: fox's refused to run our as a couple of times.

as far as i know everybody else has agreed. susan: what is your reaction to the reception do been getting? from the station owners? tom: i would say this has been -- we have tapped into something larger than we thought we would what we began. our original goal was to get one million signatures. we -- it happened much faster than we thought. it has gone much longer than we thought. we raise our goal. right now our goal is to get the 5 million signatures. when we originally started it was 1 million and we cut that would be a success. susan: let's turn to our reporters who have many more questions. we will begin with darren samuelsohn. darren: you've spent a lot of money on the races to try to help candidates who supported a lot of your causes. what is your budget for this impeachment campaign? is it endless? do you have a limit?

tom: we don't actually have a firm budget, and we don't either for any campaign. you should understand what we basically are is a grassroots organization, which means we do a lot of organizing on campuses, a lot of door-to-door conversations with voters. we do a lot of registrations. we are trying in our effort is have the broadest democracy with the most engagement, the most participation by the most people. that is what we really believe in. when we think about the impeachment campaign, it is to try to give the american people a voice to say this president is dangerous to us and our families and our communities and he needs to go. as a goes, we have already accomplished -- we have gone past our original goal. if we were set before it happens, i don't know what we would be doing. every time we get into something

we know the facts will change and therefore how much we will be involved, what paths we will take changes back. darren: so far, $20 million? do you have a sense how much more you will be putting down? tom: i don't. as we go what we have seen -- we originally started in october 20. a lot has happened since october 20. all of these things happening with the mueller investigation in terms of manafort and flynn. our original conception when we began was here are the facts on october 20, and they are going to change every day from now on. this petition, this drive is going to be sustained and stronger as a result of the facts that happened going forward. niall: to pick up on that, there

has been support from a certain number of democratic lawmakers for impeachment, of the democratic leadership in congress has been much less enthusiastic about focusing on that topic or goal. do you feel they are too timid? what is your response to the message them accredit leaders message them democratic leaders are sending back about this effort? tom: what they have said publicly is they don't think this is the time for it. but we have found, as i've said, we are a grassroots organization. we are trying to communicate directly with the american people and give them a voice. i don't think it is any secret. this president is not a secret. this danger to the american people is not a secret. what he is doing on a daily basis is apparent to almost every american. from our standpoint, not to try to counteract the danger, not to

try to stand up to the threat to the american people, to us this is an urgent issue. we are just telling the truth and trying to allow americans to state that truth. from our standpoint we don't really understand the political calculation about whether this is smart or down. we are trying to do what is right. we don't think is a secret that is smart or down. this president is scary. niall: not to get hung up on the point. whenever democratic leaders say this is not the right time, you think they are wrong? tom: obviously we are doing it now. yes, we think this is an urgent issue for the safety of americans. there is no time when we will say we don't think we should stand up for the health and

safety of americans because it is not a good time politically to do that. no. we think this is an urgent issue and everybody knows it. if you look at what has happened since october 20 in terms of people showing up at the polls and the results of that, i think americans are pretty aware of where they stand on this issue. that is why we have had the response we've had. susan: i want to follow up one more time. some quotes from democratic leaders, some suggest timing. i wrote down a comment. unhelpful. a vanity project. futile. when you hear those, what are you here in? tom: i hear two different things. one, it is not good timing. the other one is a question about questioning my motives and trying to question me. from my standpoint, i don't spend any time on that. this is not about me. this is about whether what we

are doing is right and about the american people having a voice. it is supposed to be a democracy. we are trying to provide an avenue for direct voice of the american people. the fact if you take a look at the zip code of the people saying those things and when it -- where they spend their time, we are trying to talk to people all over the country. we are trying to allow them to have a voice. i'm not spending one second worrying about people with an ad hominem argument. darren: one of the people she was quoting is nancy pelosi, represents where you are sitting right now. what has she told you about this effort? what have you heard from chuck schumer and the democratic national committee about your effort? tom: we really don't have a conversation. i've never talked to nancy about this is single time. the fact of the matter is -- i would say it again. from our standpoint we think the

strongest power in the united states should be the voice of the american people and that is what we are trying to enable. we think ultimately that will be an overwhelming power. we have seen it in the elections that have happened between the time we started and now. we think that will continue to grow and build. we think ultimately elected officials have to respond. if you look, when we started on october 20, there were two people in the house who it spoken publicly about impeachment. they held a vote a few weeks ago. 58 voted for it and four abstained. i don't think they care about what i say. i think what they are saying is, wow, the american people are exercised about this. darren: are you trying to make 2018 a referendum on

impeachment? tom: i don't think there is going to be any question that 2018 is going to be a referendum on this administration and the kind of extremely negative policies and divisive, racist arguments they have in making. that is what 2018 is going to be about. it's also really important when we think about that, that 2018 not just be a negative campaign and a referendum on the bad things they are doing, create a referendum about what the good things they are not doing that they should be doing. as far as i'm concerned, as upset as i am about the danger they pose to the american people, what they are not doing also threatens our future because the fact of the matter is they are attacking the american people both by what they do and what they don't do but should do. i think it is important to have

a vision of what a better america would look like, the kinds of policies that would actually make it successful in the 21st century. niall: just to play devil's advocate to a certain extent, bill clinton -- republicans did impeach him in the 1990's. admittedly very different circumstances, but there is certainly conventional political wisdom that the effort produced a defensiveness for clinton among democrats and centrists. do you have a fear about a push to impeach trump backfiring and forming coalitions and politicians you would support him? tom: actually from our standpoint i go back to first principles. what we are interested in is the broadest democracy. many americans being registered, engaged in participating in

public life. when i think about that and i think about your question, to me, i think what we are saying is true, is urgent and incredibly relevant. if that is true, that means americans will respond to that. they will respond to the truth. they will respond to someone standing up for the truth, and they will be much more likely to come out to the polls and response to that. no, i don't worry about what you're saying. we are trying to represent the truth of the whole of the american people. that includes everyone. if we can do that, that is something that will compel people to the engaged and show up. when that happens, we think we get the best decisions. that is what we believe in our bones. darren: are you saying 2018

should be a referendum specifically on impeachment? if the democrats take the house of representatives, that's the first thing they should do? not trump and everything in terms of the policies and things you were talking about, but specifically impeachment? tom: what i said was whatever we like or don't like, the 2018 election is going to be a referendum on this administration, this congress, and their negative, backward looking policies. impeachment is a statement that what they are doing is so dangerous, so unusual, so out-of-the-box that we actually have to get rid of this president. that is a very unusual statement. that is a statement of how far beyond what is safe that this administration has gone and the american people need to speak up and let of elected officials know that's what they want. i believe this will be a referendum on what this

administration, with the support of this congress has chosen to represent, including the very divisive and hate-filled language. impeachment is a statement of how strongly americans feel about it and what they think the solution to it is. niall: staying with future elections but shifting gears, it is no surprise your own political ambitions are the subject of some speculation. would you be inclined to run for office yourself anytime in the medium-term? tom: what i have said is that i have not ruled it out and i'm trying to determine what will have the most positive differential impact of me working on this. i know everybody thinks that being clever, but it's not. i'm absolutely ambitious to try to be a part of a group of people who gets america back on a just and prosperous course.

i'm dead serious about it. when i get up in the morning i think about it, and i've said i will do almost anything i think will be the most differential. it is not about me. there are a whole bunch of people. i believe the preponderance of americans agree with me. this is our time to stand up and it is back to the kind of just america we have tried to be for hundreds of years. you are asking me -- i know i have to make this decision soon, and all i'm saying is the question is what can i do this end up against what i consider to be a deep threat to the safety and health of the american people. niall: not to get us off the news of the day, but it's an interesting argument because it goes to the debate that happens with progressive or conservative circles about is one more

effective on the outside putting pressure on the political system, or working within the political system for change? do you have a broad view on that question which is raised again and again? tom: let me say this, what i said before and part of what i take into account in making the decision is the organization we have built over the last five years. if you look at 2016, we were on 370 college campuses. with our partners in labor we knocked on 12.5 million doors. the biggest registration drive in history of california. about 350,000 people outside california. we have a very large grassroots organization designed to try to get as many americans involved in participating in the process as possible because that is what we believe in. when i think about running for

office, i say to myself we have an organization on the ground that is already working in 2017 for 2018. what are the other things we could conceivably do? want to think about differential impact, i'm thinking about what can our organization do that will make a big difference? what can we do in terms of the need to impeach campaign in terms of signing people up at our website and using that voice and using their voice to try to push our country forward? it is not simply a question of shall i go on c-span or run for office? it is what can we do to collect and organize americans together so we get the broadest democracy? it is a little bit more complicated than just run or don't run. susan: we have about nine minutes left in the

conversation. darren: you have two or three more months to decide in the state of california if you would run for senator or governor. what is the next couple of weeks and months like? are you going to wait until the last minute on the filing more months to decide in the deadlines? tom: i don't think so. my expectation is we have been doing -- i've been doing a lot of soul-searching in terms of what i described. in terms of considering a bunch of things away from running for office and what that would look like, and what the likelihood is of having an impact with it and what we can build for the future. i don't think that's the kind of thing -- i know what the filing deadlines are, too. the fact of the matter is if are going to do other things, we have to make plans and get organized. running a grassroots organization, which is what we do, is not something you can just turn on and turn off. grassroots major organizing

people, hiring them, training them, setting them out on the field, organizing groups of volunteers to do the work. it is something that takes advanced thinking in preparation. we can't wait until the filing deadline. we have to make these decisions and weigh different alternatives. darren: you have one of the most valuable you know lists the democrats have in people who have signed up for impeachment. it could be as valuable as the bernie sanders list from the 2016 period. what are you going to make that was available to democrats or put it out on the market for people who are looking to run? tom: what we have done so far -- we have been going to those people and asking them to take action. that is the first thing we have done, asked people to say will you send any mail to your congressperson? will you respond to this tax plan?

those kinds of things. it is true people signing up gives us communication with people. but the fact of the matter is it is not so much we're trying to use them. we are trying to let their voice and their collective voice -- for americans, they are scared by this president. they don't know what to do in between november of 2016 and november of 2018, which is the midterms. the question is, how can we use the collective voice of americans to change the debate to explain to elected officials where the people really are they purport to represent? and let that voice be heard to the american people's will can be followed. that is what the list is really for, to say these people can be together an incredibly strong

for change. that is the whole reason for the petition, to explain to people. these are the american people. if you look at where they are, they are all over the country. niall: i'm curious. it made the argument several times about the power of the people giving voice to the people and all of that. you are obviously someone who has enjoyed a lot of success in business. you are yourself very wealthy and that enables you to do some of these things. where do you stand on the importance of money in american politics? does it still have too much influence? tom: oh my gosh, yes. it is killing us. money in politics. niall: but you are spending quite a lot of your money, correct? tom: we are and i will address that.

let's start with the tax bill. it is a pure response to republican donors. it supports the richest americans at the expense of everybody else. the american people just had a steamroller the right over the head in order to deliver money to the richest americans. is there too much money and politics? today is proof positive there is too much money in american politics. my original response is i want no part of it. then i realized these are the rules of the game. this -- i absolutely disagree with citizens united. it is distorting our politics. it is giving way to a democracy of dollars instead of people and that is terrible for us, but it is the rules of democracy right now. as we spend money, we are doing it as much as possible to get

the broadest democracy possible. we are doing it as transparently as we can. i'm sitting on c-span explaining what we're doing and why. there is no good in agenda here. we are not doing it -- i'm fighting a tax plan which is delivering money to me. our organization is trying to work directly for the good of the american people, not for the profits of rich people and definitely not for my pocket. i do think this is an incredibly distorting feature of american politics, and we are seeing the culmination of it this very day. susan: we have just three minutes left. darren: people do not necessarily know who tom steyer is outside of california. they have certainly seen a lot of commercials you have run, but your name recognition has increased. you're being recognized as you make your way through public spaces nowadays. president trump attacked you on twitter.

talk about your own name recognition increasing with the underlying question which is if you're running for president in 2020. that combination of those things and if you see your name recognition increasing. tom: let me say this. i'm one of the luckiest guys around. i'm lucky because i was born in the united states. i was born to a family that really took care of me. i got a great education. i'm a white male in a society are lots of people have been discriminated against in some way, shape or form not being that. i recognize how much luck i have. i also recognize this system is the product of literally hundreds of years of people sacrificing. and sacrificing in the most profound ways. i look at myself and i say this is an opportunity for me to be

part of something, a group of people trying to do something good for america when the american people are under attack from within. i look at that as an incredible opportunity in terms of having a meaningful life and being part of that tradition of americans trying to move the country in a good way. so every part of this that works into that, i'm incredibly happy about. if i can do that, that gives me a norm is satisfaction because that is what i think every american for hundreds of years in their heart of hearts has wanted to do, and i want to do it. i'm extremely happy if this campaign moves us in that direction and i can be a part of that. i'm extremely happy if i can be part of a group of americans working like heck to get us back on a prosperous and just course. niall: i have this very worthy final question ready to go about

whether the impeachment campaign is distracting from your environmental interests, but listening to your last reply i just think he is running for something. am i wrong? tom: yes. let me make a point about this. first of all, it is possible in american history that people do something they think is important because they think it is important. secondly, when we think about environmentalism as part of the overall political spectrum, we think environmental change will happen as part of a progressive change that goes around a justice agenda. what we are pushing for is a just america where people are more prosperous, it is more fair, and we think this is eminently doable. we really believe what the trump administration and this congress are doing is something that takes away our future by

refusing to invest in the american people. that is something we should absolutely be doing because a successful country in the 21st century will be dependent on well-educated, healthy, well-trained and a productive human being. we should be investing in the human beings known as the american people. not to do it seems like a crime to me. susan: tom steyer's founder of the need to impeach campaign, joining us from san francisco. happy holidays. tom: thank you so much are having me. happy holidays to all three of you. susan: gentleman, 3 million signatures. let's face the reality of impeachment. where is the attitude on capitol hill? you talk about leadership pushing back on this, even though a small portion of the

democratic conference has managed to enlist support. where does it stand? darren: impeachment for now is off the table. i think the democrats, fall publicly the leadership is saying that don't want to be talking about impeachment, they know that will bring up some segment of their base in the 2018 midterms. that is part of the way they can hopefully capitalize on in order to take back the house. there are a lot of people they will need. impeachment, while they are head nodding, they want a positive message about the economy and think they would do if they were in charge, no doubt if nancy pelosi or whomever becomes the next democratic leader, impeachment will be faced day in and day out if you think about where robert mueller will be nine months of now, 10 months from now, where the entire congressional investigation is,

what we will learn about 2016. it is there and they are very much aware of it. susan: david axelrod, the obama advisor, has had a high level of discussion, calling this thread to the democratic process. that it is damaging constitutionally. talk about it at that level about concerns you heard about using impeachment in this way. niall: it's interesting you say in the political process. political professionals of either party, things are so polarized people either went to impeach or not. the broader point you raise is an important one. people in academia and journalism wonder about this idea of what happens only get to a point where simply intense dislike of a president is a catalyst for impeachment efforts? can they be successful? how damaging would it be to set the precedent where a president

is impeached in those circumstances. clearly, tom steyer and others see this president is very much one-of-a-kind, as someone who transgresses the normal democratic balance of society. but i think there is a genuine concern about setting precedent for removing a president out of that popular dislike. darren: it's fascinating with tom steyer in california with the recall effort, by gray davidson led us to arnold schwarzenegger. the recall process does not obviously work in the presidential process. what he is arguing for is a political uprising to take out a president. clearly they would need actual high crimes and misdemeanors. whether it is the obstruction of justice case robert mueller is pursuing, and we don't know where that is at this age in the

process. we don't know how far that is. he has mostly been focused on campaign a in the years before they were even in the trump campaign. i think there is a long way to go before we get to that threshold of high crimes and misdemeanors. 80 robert mueller will provide that down the line the way ken starr produced a report. susan: is there anything more formal going back? niall: i think they would regard this as something counter to the american people who did democratically elect donald trump. one of the fixations of this white house is the idea that are shadowy things going on behind the scenes to delegitimize his victory. the president did call mr. steyer unhinged at some point.

the broader question is one in which they see them as an attempt to undercut the president's democratic legitimacy. susan: there was an election on capitol hill in the house, the democratic caucus. jerrod nadler will take over the house judiciary committee, which is very important, especially if the democrats are successful in their efforts to take over the majority in the house. do we know anything about jerrold nadler's attitude towards the impeachment process? darren: for now he is taking the lead, along with what you have heard from nancy pelosi and others. let the process play out. let's have a more proactive, positive message. he's been bird dogging the chairman of that committee, criticizing him again today as he goes after fbi officials and

turning the rush investigation on its heels. flipping it up upside down by looking back to hillary clinton and the fbi. on the republicans' case, he's trying to push it forward. if nadler were in charge, it would be a much more intense case to try to see what happened. 10 or 11 months for now, it will be a very different place. susan: thank you niall stanage and darren samuelsohn for being here on "newsmakers." [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] >> reviews life career during the even, he talk about his time

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that was part of event held hunter college in new york city. entirety tonight starting at 8:00 eastern on c-span. after that right, more about from russianemarks the u.s.r to he spoke about election interference. the syrian civil war, north korea and relation between russia and the united states. he spoke in the u.s. an event hy affairs council of northern california. on c-span. >> c-span student camp. it all.ts say student cam in action. editing for constitutional documentary. this group showed you how it's done. two stellar interview this one day. these students asked hard hitting question about reform and dream act. we're asking students to choose a provision of the u.s. great a videond

illustrating why it's important. to allpetition is open middle school and high school students grade 6 through 12. $100,000 in crash prizes will be awarded. the grand prize of $5000 will go to the student or team with the best entry. january 18th. get contest details on our website, studentcam.org. ♪ announcer: this week, former chair of the democratic national committee donna brazile discusses her book "hacks." brian: donna brazile, author of the book "hacks." who was lionel?