beginning saturday at noon eastern on book tv on c-span2, and sunday afternoon at 2:00 on american history tv on c-span3. working with our cable affiliates as we explore america. announcer: c-span said down with energy secretary rick perry as part of our interviews with trump administration officials. he talks about his family and his political career, including 14 years as governor of texas, the role of the energy department, and his working relationship with president trump. this is 40 minutes. steve: rick perry, as former governor of texas, having served 14 years. what was the biggest learning curve you had to take in order to be energy secretary? sec. perry: working for somebody. i worked for the united states air force when i was between 22 and 27.

and i worked for my dad a short period of time and other than that, i've either been self-employed or an agency head or the governor. self-employed or an agency head or the governor. so learning to be -- one of the orngs you know about texas you may not -- texas does not have a cabinet-style government. the agriculture commissioner or lieutenant governor, you're elected on your own. you're responsible, obviously, to the voters, but you actually don't work for somebody. i came to washington, d.c. and i'm working as a cabinet member was a little bit of a learning curve for me. management's management. 12ther you're running the largest economy in the world as the state of texas is, or the d.o.e.'re at that's got about 16,000 100,000 contractors and $30 billion budget, in the things, that's not a huge agency of government. but you're working in the

thenet for the president of united states. a little bit of a change for me. job?: why did you take the secretary perry: i still thought -- you got to remember, i wanted to be the president of states.ed i ran at it a couple of times. plan.at wasn't god's stillcomfortable that i had things i wanted to give to my country. as an public service honorable profession and both afication and vocation. my father was a county commissioner. stateswas in the united air force. those experiences prepared me a life of public service. still inyears old, rather good health, still care about where my country is headed and so i felt very comfortable

trump and the men and women in the united states congress could use a 14-year with the experience i had and bring that to this town to help try to direct an agency help direct the administration in a particular direction. host: as you know, this is a department formed in 1977 by president jimmy carter, a democrat, during the height of the energy crisis. is its mission still relevant today? secretary perry: the mission is still relevant because agencies transform. times.ansform with the if someone told jimmy carter 40 years, the united a energy going to be we'rendent country that, going to be the largest oil and gas producer, that we're going the largest gas

exporter, he would have not believed that, as most people wouldn't have. could look into the future and see that. created ingency was the mid 1970's, yes, we moved the nuclear weapons and the oversight of that is still here. that's still a very relevant of what we do, two-thirds the departmentf of energy is over on the n.s.a. side where our nuclear weapons, program, thetion making sure that they're safe that is stilll of very relevant. but we've changed from the you think about renewables. we made this big circle. up in a home that didn't have running water. had a up in a home that carbide plant still next door. r.e.a. by then,

come.electric had so we didn't use the old carbide windmill that the kept the battery charged for a couple of hours in the evening. but you think about this circle we made in the world on renewables, it's really fascinating. windmills are back in vogue again. that is a form of energy we used historically but now you're really seeing come of age of age in a big way. heavily ine invested the wind energy side of things. the largest wind energy producing state in the nation. as a matter of fact, they produce more wind in all but five countries. so this agency, although it's flexible, it's transitioned as weh the years, today,

liquefied.-produced natural gas, l.n.g., as we sell our technology on carbon capture, being able to use coal responsible way, to other countries, the department of labs,, those national aree 17 national labs, probably some of the best investment that the american taxpayer made over the course of the years because of the basic research that was done there and then the commercialization of change people's toes, to create wealth, affect our country and literally the global. me take that one step further. news by the trump white house tos month of the ability drill offshore, do you envision

the companies would make the drill off coast of texas or florida or california?s or secretary perry: certainly they're doing that off the coast of texas and have for a time andal amount of have been a very good resource. going to be able to stand up and say, guarantee there will be an accident? no, you can't. industry's job, government's job is, to work together to make sure that those are as rare as possible. i think we've done that as a country rather well. i think it's wise for this country to continue to look at to develop our natural resources safely, environmentally sound, and boots boots -- it's about our national security. ago, 15k about a decade

years ago, certainly. thatlied upon countries oftentimes didn't have our best interest in mind. somere held hostage to degree. and what's really changed is not this just revolution in america, the oil and gas ability tout our export to allies around the them freedom,ives gives them freedom from countries that would hold them hostage. give you some countries. i suspect that there has been at nato and nato countries by individuals who are trying toho get other countries to follow a particular line of political if you will, and weapon, and as the that's not what america's about. america's about giving countries

freedom. obviously we want them to support us, support our positions. but giving those countries the freedom to keep their people lights on,the economically be able to have a manufacturing base, that is a powerful tool of which the really didn't have until just the last decade. steve: your family goes back how many generations in texas? secretary perry: we were knocking around in texas when it which goes back 30's and so there was a -- we were just tenant farmers. there's no royalty in the perry family that we know of. you'd have to go back a long,

way. they were pioneers. they were farmers. farmers inenant texas back in the 1800's. eight generations in the state of texas. dad, part of the greatest generation? secretary perry: he was. in pineas born in 1925, creek. housen that little across -- across pine creek from raised and his father was a tenant farmer. grandfather's father was a tenant farmer. county commissioner, like my dad, a county commissioner. 1943,aduated high school the army air corps, wanted to be a pilot. they weren't looking for pilots

but he ended up gunner.tail this picture behind me is november 7, 1944. i think it's their sixth mission leipzig.ck from the tail gunner, you can see good damage on his end of it. the gunner is dead. thepilot received distinguished flying cross that day. 29 more missing after that, he was fortunate to come home and live in freedom. know, those who had parents in world war ii came home and didn't talk about it. it?your father talk about secretary perry: not very often. he would go and meet his old crew members. we didn't go many places. we just didn't have the resources. we'd go to colorado once a year. up there and eat out of a ice cooler and stay at a

log cabin place that my august when go in it was cool in colorado and hot in texas. on we'd go from time to time that trip off to see one of his old crew members, a fellow in nebraska. he drove up and picked up a new andup from general motors drove it home and visited with his old pilot who lived up in that part of the country. but he didn't talk about it a lot. my dad was very proud. mom, actually, put together a pictures and the talk years, i got dad to about his experiences more. in the year 2000, i took my dad to his old air base in england. it was an incredibly memorable trip for me to go back with my dad. we were about 60 miles away from

where i was stationed in east of cambridge.de he was over farther east at a little town with the 95th bomb but dad was very proud of his service. it as a -- he didn't do anything any different than any of the rest of the boys who volunteered. he was in a very dangerous business being a crew member in 1944., steve: and at the time he had to be what, 19 or 20 years old? secretary perry: 19 years old, yeah. 19 years old. he was -- but he wasn't -- dad he was around a lot of fellas who were heroic.inarily he didn't consider himself to be one.

alive?your mother still secretary perry: she is. she was born in 1929 and still the farm. steve: what's she like? secretary perry: pretty stoic. my mother is -- really interesting lady. very important that her children learn music. was 7 until ime i was 14, she drove us -- my sister's two-- years older than i am -- she into the closest place for a post office, haskell, piano lessons. one of the most fascinating my mother.ut she was hard-working. she was a bookkeeper at a cotton gin. was a part-time job, theously, in the fall and winter, lasted probably four to five months.

time she wasof the a home maker and one of the most powerful stories about my mother, because we didn't have a lot of money growing up. something new for her house and, again, this is an old house. theas probably built in 1920's, bungalow-style house, out on a farm. flat, the wind blows and in those days we'd get storms, the get dark. west would and literally, dust storms that were just suffocating. and the house was old and had pretty big cracks in it. newshe had received a couch. couch for her a new christmas and that following spring, we had one of those real bad storms that came in from the west. and dust from lubbock had to be the air and it silted all through that house and there was about that much, just looked

talcum powder on that house and it's one of the only time i mother cry. steve: wow. ask you, you were 10 or 11 when you went to the funeral of sam rayburn. you mentioned your dad was involved in politics. do you remember that? secretary perry: oh, yeah. i never met a republican or anybody that would admit to be until i was in my 20's, after i -- i really didn't pay to politics, you know, going through, my dad was a county commissioner. we were democrats. again, the first republican was in in my home county 1990 when i ran for agriculture my wifeoner and organized the republican primary. a part of texas texas-- and just knowing history, the whole secession the united states, the

reconstruction -- republicans were not very well texas. of in ronald reagan made ok to be a republican. a huge fan ofwas ronald reagan's. was really -- there just weren't any republicans. fan of samas a big rayburn's. selflesst he was a public servant and when he died he said, you know what, we're ourg to load up and go pay respects to a great texan, great public servant so we hopped in, i don't know, in 1961, whatever we were driving. like a 1959as chevrolet as i recall, big fins back and we drove, my dad can't remember whether my mom and sis went or not.

but i remember dad and i roading on the side of the .n a mist obviously, we weren't going in the church. we were going to be there. the motorcade came by carrying sam rayburn's body and carlas like, there's albert right there. presidente, there's eisenhower. there's president kennedy. they were all there and they were driving by and we were seeing them. time thatas the first was whole thing of politics kind of intriguing to me about, number one, that my dad would drive that far to pay his someone, and i started paying attention to the political world. my dad ran for county years later,three in 1964. he was defeated the first time

he ran. again and won. then he was elected six more a total of that for 28 years of public service as county commissioner. steve: and for you in 1988, you supported al gore running for the democratic nomination for president. a year later ubecame a republican. secretary perry: as you'll recall, i was elected three times as a democrat in texas. again, we didn't have any republicans to speak of. i got to the legislature, i that i was more withrtable philosophically the members of the republican party in texas. still had conservative democrats in texas in those days. lewis, speaker of the house, classic conservative speaker, and honorable man. thei was asked to help with gore campaign, really hadn't looking at of time

the candidates, drilling down their philosophies and what have you. he was a southern senator from tennessee. and i think i can't remember who -- i think from illinois, the -- dick --of richard -- can't remember who candidates other were. long story short, from my perspective -- steve: senator simon? secretary perry: no, no. al gore looked the most conservative of the lot to me. defenseor the missile system. iyway, long story short, became pretty disenchanted with the whole process -- not the thee process, but reagan -- party and ofgan really had a way

hisacting, certainly me, to philosophy, to who he was, to what he believed in, to his love of this country and i decided i would make both political parties happy and party anddemocrat join the republican party. steve: you were a boy scout and scout.e what was your service project? secretary perry: interestingly, they didn'told guy, have service projects. those started either in the late 1960's or early 1970's. so -- but my son's an eagle his eagle project was identified and fingerprinted every child in our church. it, that's aut very good service because most children are not fingerprinted. forbid, an, god

abduction or a child gets lost, photo i.d. and fingerprints, you have that ability to be able to identify them. that was his eagle project. steve: how did you meet your wife? secretary perry: my wife and i grew up -- she grew up in the 16n of haskell which is miles from paint creek which is the community where i grew up. her dad was the local country doctor. great and extraordinary man, practiced medicine for years.thing was in michael dubakey's first class at baylor medical school. wasteaching assistant another very well known heart texas, denton again, a fascinating man. she and i both played the piano.

by her at a piano recital. she was 8.as 10 and so i was not happy having to sit by a little curly-haired girl at 1960 but when i her again in the summer had changed in a good way and i was attracted to her so we met in 1960. we went out on our first date in 1966, september 9, 1966, we went to a football game together. 16 years.ed for got married november 6, 1982. steve: that's a long time to date. secretary perry: she was a hard sell. steve: two children. how many grandchildren?

secretary perry: griffin is 34. he's married to a lovely attorney in dallas. have two little girls. 20y're basically 4 and 2, months apart. sidney and brett have only been married a year. steve: do you still play the piano? can stillperry: i play some beethoven but i don't play the piano. about -- inident summer, the very early that kind of ended my piano playing days. broke my arm in a horse horses, andloading these fingers were back here. was a very severe compound fracture and when they put it rotate -- can't anyway, long story short, i can a furou a little bit of about but that would be

the end of it. steve: why the air force? secretary perry: my father was in the army air corps. my dad wanted me to go to the air force academy. i was dead set at going to texas a&m university because one of my models in life was my scout master and he was a 1932 a&m and servedas army and --n the but the air force was, you know, dad was and that was a good place for me. steve: you talk about your dad. but was there anyone else in your life who influenced you the most? secretary perry: yeah, maybe of folks. it kind of came in sections in your life. you know, when i was a young man, my scout master -- there weren't a lot of things to do in than creek, texas, other go to school, go to church and thoseouts and in each of places there were folks who really affected my life. my schooling and my athletic

of things was a man by the ame of james ross mickler, marine, korea veteran, who was also my civics teacher, coach,all coach, track football coach, and bus driver -- oh, and he was also the principal. small school. he had a lot of impact on my life. was a man who taught me personal discipline. i mean, he was just -- he was a disciplinarian. loved him greatly, but a very disciplinarian. steve: how important is religion to you? the core perry: it's of who i am. you know, i was raised -- my very faithful individual. small methodist church in paint creek, which

they had a little church out members maybey 50 at its max. my scout master -- remember him? was also the superintendent of the sunday school and a sunday school teacher. so this small community really were.ed who you two churches, methodist church, choice.church, your you went to one of those two and generally we all did vacation bible school together. we would go down to the methodist church for a while and theheirs and then to baptist church and to do theirs. so seeing the men i respected be theirully engaged in worship had a positive impact on me. to college, went off to the got this, thank

you, god, don't need any more help. i came back home, 27 years old, and god kind of dealt with me had the realization that all those things i learned practical have applications. and i re-engaged in my faith been a very,t's very important part of who i am, tried to reflect my thees to the people of state of texas and in this case country. i'm a big believer that if of -- you must have a base beliefs that the foundation of a person as in my

my judeorounded in christian beliefs and i'm proud with a group of men and women who share that. we have a cabinet bible study here that meets every wednesday morning at 7:00. presently we met over at the ag department, sunny purdue is kind enough to host it. fairly good number of the cabinet members come on a regular basis. steve: what do you talk about? what is that like? secretary perry: it's a bible drollingerlph teaches it. it is very much -- ralph is a brilliant, knowledgeable bible not preaching. it's not anything other than we have a bible study and we delve creature -- we

delve deeply into scripture. -- is the overarching name of the organization. statesto say in 26, 27 and a number of countries around the world, they do the senate bible study, a congressional bible study, and this is the first time in i think almost 100 years there has been a cabinet bible study. steve: is there a verse in the bible that either best represents you or that you take a lot of solace from? secretary perry: i would say that there are a lot of verses in the bible that come to mind. perspective, you know, whether -- we were sharing a little bit he forgot started in here how day-to-day things that can haveiblical verses

an impact on it. we were talking about plastic surgery, because medics urge or is expanded and exploded -- appearance is not everything. with studying the bible, with listening to god speak to you through his scripture, through his words, is the wisdom that is there. and the wisdom that gets , i was a pilot in the united states air force. the one thing that would keep you alive, or keep you from getting hurt, if you followed it , was your checklist. the bible will serve you as a really good checklist. steve: i'm curious to get your

take on a moment in history that you lived through. whenever talk about this before, but in november 2000, george w. bush did not win the election. there was a month and a half before the election was decided. you were the lieutenant governor and became the governor after he became president. what was that period like for you? there was a lot of uncertainty. secretary perry: yeah, but i was either going to be the you tenney governor -- the lieutenant governor or the governor. another one are bad gigs in texas, so i didn't spend a lot of time worrying about it one way or the other. probably as well-prepared prepared as anybody that has come along in history. i was a state representative, agricultural commissioner, lieutenant governor for two years, and lieutenant governor is an interesting job and is the presiding officer of the senate,

selects all the committee chairman, decides what legislation is going to go before the senate on any given day. so it's different than a lot of other things. we will leave it at that. it's a rather influential way to affect the citizenry of the state of texas and the legislation that occurs. so it was an interesting time, absolutely. did i want george bush to become president of the united states? you bet. not necessarily because i wanted to move up, not that that broke my heart either. of timeot a period where i spent a lot of time fretting. steve: you ran for president twice. what did you learn about yourself in the process? secretary perry: that i'm not superman. what i mean by that is that physically, i was not prepared to run for president in 2011.

in hindsight, i would not have had major back surgery six weeks i announced the presidency. i thought i would be able to heal up and perform at a level that would be appropriate and i couldn't. and i struggled a lot. a lot. physically, mentally, just to stay on the page of the hymn book that day. and sometimes humbling expenses like that are really character builders. and that's how i look at it. that wasn't god's plan. i'm in a really interesting place now. i happen to think it's for god where he meets for me to be. everything has worked out fine for my perspective. steve: and you mentioned president trump. what is your relationship like with him? how often do you interact with them? what it like to work with him?

secretary perry: we talk to each other on a fairly regular basis. i don't pick up the phone and chitchat. when have some issues that we are interested in working on together, we see each other obviously in class five settings because i am on the national security council, he comes in to be briefed or to spend time with his national security council making decisions. so sometimes i will see him on a videoconference and we will chitchat as we are killing time. obviously over at the white house for christmas. -- he respectsp me because of my experience that i bring to his cabinet. i respect him for a lot of different reasons, the least of which is not he is the president of the united states, so he is

the leader of this country and i'm going to respect him out of that. i really like him in a personal way. he is a really humorous individual. to be around. joke and have a pretty good go of it together. one day i was sitting in the white house and there were a couple of other evident members there and i don't even know how the conversation went. parry, you wanted this job at one time. and i said yes, but i'm sure glad you have it sir. steve: what is he like off-camera? what you tell them? secretary perry: same thing i told you. he is focused. he is very opinionated. you don't have to worry about him him-hawing around. he will say, this is what i need you to go do.

whenever you and mceachin, you talk aboutut it, this economic deal and how it will affect this and what have you. then he hears information and says, this is what i want you to do or it you do -- what you to do. you do this, you do that, or do that. he can be talked off the ledge. he listens to reason. and that's what i share with people. this president is really engaged. i'm not sure i met anybody who works harder than he does, any longer hours. him bey may have seen tired. i've never seen what i would recognize as any fatigue. which is, i know how hard this business is. i know the drain that always being on costs you physically and mentally. and he does it as well as

anybody i've seen. steve: two final points. first, what next for you? secretary perry: i'm going to do my best to spend the next 36 months making this agency as resultse and long-term oriented as i can. after history basically has said that for years is about the longest anybody serves, there has certainly been changes. served eight years as secretary of the navy. but i'm really happy where i am. this is a great agency. almost 40% of people who work here are veterans. i got extraordinary respect for our veteran population. they are hard-working and it's an agency that has some amazing opportunities to change the world from a technology standpoint every -- standpoint.

we have 17 labs with basic research going on that is truly the type of things to change the world. i will be 70 years old when that period of time is over with. i said once upon a time i would go to round top, texas and spent time with my wife and the dog and here i am in weston d.c. as the cabinet second -- in washington, d.c. as the cabinet secretary. steve: no plans for elected office is again? secretary perry: i'm pretty much done. steve: who is the better dancer, you or emma slater? secretary perry: the real question is, who is the better dancer, me or vanilla heinz? and i always thought i was better. steve: why did you do that? we should point out dancing with the stars. secretary perry: i think you

need to get outside your comfort zone from time to time. and what really was my deciding factor was, i asked them if i could use their show to talk about veterans and veterans affairs. and they said absolutely. that gave me a totally different audience than i have ever been in front of the four to talk about the young men and women who serve this country so selfish -- selflessly, sacrificially. i didn't get to talk as long as i wanted to, the other side of it was, i get the opportunity to expose hundreds of thousands if not millions of people to stories about our veterans that they might not have gotten otherwise. the stress -- the hardest thing i ever did in my life, with the inscription -- with the exception of islet training, was being on dancing with the stars. it was monday through friday,

actually wednesday through saturday of preparation. focusedeally, really mentally, physically. when you think about it, flying at aircraft in a professional way and dancing in a ballroom in a professional setting is not necessarily different. it's time and space. , almostng things arrhythmic type of approach, particularly acrobatic approach. it is deeply focused and you have to be physically fit. so i'm glad i did it. it was awfully difficult. steve: announcer: c-span, where history unfolds daily. created as aan was

public service by america's cable-television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. announcer: ohio is facing a challenge in the u.s. supreme policys to whether its for removing inactive voters is a violation of federal law. understated protocol, anyone who does not vote in a two year time sent a notice from the board of elections and has their registration canceled if they don't respond to the notice or do not cast a ballot in federal elections for the next four years. this oral argument is just over an hour. chief justice roberts: we'll hear argument this morning in case 16-980, husted versus the a. phillip randolph institute. mr. murphy. mr. murphy: mr. chief justice, and may it please the court, congress passed the nvra to serve competing goals, increasing the