thisvos, switzerland, morning. that's coming up in about an hour. live coverage begins at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. the u.s. conference of mayors meeting continues today. they will look at trade, employment, and workplace issues. it is live at 9:30 a.m. eastern also on c-span 2. unfoldsn, where history daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. coming up, a conversation with the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases on this year's flu season. and author talks about the federal response to the opioid epidemic.

later, a conversation on the 2018 world economic forum annual meeting in davos, switzerland. of the peterson institute for international economics, joins us. host: good morning, everyone, it is friday, january 26. the president is preparing to develop the marks at the world economic forum this morning. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016]] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] host: "wall street journal" says the president will defend his nationalist policies and sell the world that the u.s. is open for business. you can tune in to the speech at 8:00 a.m. eastern time on c-span2, c-span.org or the radio app. we begin with the president's latest offer on immigration and border security. the white house put more meat on the bones of a plan the president talked about earlier in the week and is now offering

up to lawmakers a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants brought to the united states by their parents in exchanges for $25 billion in border security, including the all. what is your reaction? 202-748-8000, 202-748-8001 and 202-748-8002. send us a tweet @c-spanwj or go to facebook.com/cspan. we want to get your thoughts on the president's -- to the white house. here are some specifics. 10-12-year pathway to citizenship for approximately 1.8 current and daca eligible immigrants and limits chain

migration to include spouses and minor children only and white house would also like to eliminate visa lottery system. here's the "washington times." trump outbids obama on dreamers amnesty. offers a pathway to citizenship. trump offers new deal on immigration. white house plan would give the dreamers a path to citizenship but demand a broader revamp. and from the "new york times" -- immigration offer. a wall and tougher rule and an opportunity for 1.8 million. that in the "new york times." and the "washington post" on the jump page, headline inside the newspaper, "republicans hail the plan, democrats call it ransom."

drew hammel and nancy called the deal ram-some in pursuit of an anti-immigration wish list. congressman gutierrez tweeted this out. 25 million is ransom for dreamers and increases to deportations doesn't pass the augh test. the really a and the statue would be equally offensive and ineffective and both would express trump's deeply held uspicion of latinos. the leaders of the house and tom cotton says it was a good proposal. here's tom cotton -- excuse me, let me show you what senator durbin had to say from illinois. he's one of the members that has

been negotiating on this. he said my dreamers should not be held hostage. senator tom cotton respond -- the "new york times" frames it from the white house as a take it or leave it offer. tony in florida. you're a democrat. what do you think? should democrats take it? caller: yes, amen. host: they should take the offer? caller: big time. big time.

host: why? , the well, let's see people that trump supporters, they think the illegal aliens, they take their jobs. well, 20%, 50%, whatever. the reality, they bring revenue. they pay taxes. in the billons. the point i'm trying to make is this country is raised by immigrants, illegal aliens, you name it. the point is take the deal, build a wall. i talked to many illegal aliens and some are illegal and 50%, they say build the wall. host: ok. caller: you have to understand a criminal drug lords in mexico.

if you think isis is bad, the drug lords in mexico, they cut heads too. it's criminal. we need to build a wall somehow. host: ok. all right, tony. ryan in houston, texas, a democrat. ryan, good morning to you. what do you make of this deal offered by the white house? caller: what i would like to say, ma'am, is that i'm not a trump supporter but i believe we don't have to accept the things that -- we don't have to accept the dreamers to build a wall. i'm a black american. i just want to know why the mexicans, why can't they build their own country up? i just don't understand. you making america feel like they -- you making people like donald trump feel like they are the ones and no the twos. because the mexicans, they can't build their own country up and i don't understand why can't y'all build your own country? why can't y'all make employment

for your own -- in your own country? ost: so ryan, what about those so-called dreamers that were brought here by their parents. they didn't have control of that decision. they're here now. this is the only country they've known. some democrats and some republicans make as well. so what do you do about that population? caller: well i think -- i mean t not of their fault but what about the black guys and the black children that are in jail for crack? when are you going to let these black guys out for crack? they're coming back and forth. they're getting the slap on the wrist. what about the black guys that's going through third and -- 30, 40 years for breaking the law for crack? you know what i'm saying? i understand they came here. it's no fault of their own. but you still have people here that's struggling. you've got black people here working from paycheck to

paycheck, is not receiving. when i look in my parking lot, about 8:00, everybody's gone. ou know what i'm saying? so they should try to build their own country up and stop coming over here. you know what i'm saying? build your own country up! host: got your point, ryan. angela from georgia, independent. ening la what, do you think? good morning. caller: as it pertains to the people and now, right to be here , we got -- there has to be a system where everybody has to be identified. we have too many that are not even identified. and that creates a problem. i'm not so concerned about the crackhead getting out of jail or

going to jail because one of the main things is staying out of crime, whether you're an american or you're not. we have been filtrated with those that have come with criminal activity. host: take a look at the two wings out of the conservative party. you have the so-called establishment "wall street journal" saying trump's immigration offer. he dodged back into deal making with a constructive proposal. these concessions would have limit the number of legal immigrants and thus -- host: and then breitbart.com which is run by the bannon with the headline "white house plan

big amnesty now nothing for americans until 2027." belinda in westhaven, connecticut, republican. hi, belinda. belinda, good morning to you. let me try that one more time. belinda, are you with us? caller: yes. host: ok. good morning. go ahead. caller: i want the chain migration to stop and i want the lottery to stop. but limit the people that come to this country. i am an immigrant and i came here legally. host: ok. caller: i have an american visa when i came. wallboarded for the american people in this country. host: ok, belinda's thoughts. bruce, from baltimore ax republican. hi, bruce. caller: good morning. i'm a republican and i'm a

conservative on most issues and i voted for donald trump because of concerns about illegal immigration. and particularly in baltimore, my neighborhood. he problems that i've had. i always try to do -- even though there was a language barrier and they didn't care about the neighborhood. i don't want to have get into that. but this is amnesty. and chuck schumer is really anipulating a lot of issues. [indiscernible] what's going on, chuck schumer what a emocrats and racist he is, i'll say it. anyway, they're not going to appropriate money for the wall. they're talking about building the wall but -- they don't want

to -- the chain migration, they don't want a lot of things. i don't trust the democrats. i don't trust the leadership under chuck schumer or nanonano. -- nancy pelosi. i would be really lukett to cut any deals with democrats. i would walk back from the deal. i would listen to some of its stitches. i would listen to the -- constituents and the freedom caucus and some of those individuals. i do not trust the current leadership of the democratic party. host: ok. host: chris voted for president trump because of this issue. more of your phone calls coming up. phone number is on your screen.

what do you make of the white house offering the take it or leave it offer to lawmakers? you get the daca participants but in exchange, we want $25 million for border security and most of that money going for the wall. first, i want to share this story with you. the "new york times." michael schmidt and maggie haberman with the headline. trump ordered mueller's firing but was refute. the president is said to have backed down after his lawyer threatened to quit. this is back in june that the president ordered the firing of robert mueller according to four -- le toward the matter --

host: the president also said mr. mueller could not be impartial because he had worked for the law firm that represented the president's son-in-law jared kushner and mr. mueller had been interviewed to return as the f.b.i. director day before he was appointed special counsel in may.

host: the president is in davos, switzerland today. he is slated to give remarks in about 45 minutes. earlier this morning, he was asked about the "new york times" article as well as his speech today. his is what he had to say. president trump: fake news. fake news. >> what's your message? president trump: fake story. a crowd like this we've never had before. [indiscernible] there's a crowd like they've never had before in davos including all of you people. so that's good. i assume they're here because of [indiscernible] reporter: your message will be well received.

president trump: i think it will be very well received. it is very positive. the united states is doing fantastically well, better than we've done in decades. the stock markets are incredible. businesses are coming back into the united states. i think it's going to be a great message that people are going to like hearing. host: the president at davos, switzerland earlier this morning. he will be speaking at 8:00 a.m. eastern time on c-span2 or c-span.org. downtown locke that -- download that free c-span app. jeff is on the line. caller: my statement is it would like to know why these daca people do not file their papers with immigration to become citizens. if they want to become a citizen so much, they should really apply. host: all right. and jeff, what do you think of the deal? caller: if they go through the process, yes. not just to give them amnesty.

but they have to be filed and vetted and wait in line. i was working with a guy and just before the election, he was a daca guy. he was here 40 plus years. he filed it only took him four months to become a citizen and that this new jersey. so i think, you know, these people want to become citizen, put in their papers. they won't be deported. host: from the papers this morning and at the white house put out, they were talking about a 10 to 12--year pathway to citizenship. is that enough of a line for you? caller: it might be too long in my opinion. we could do things and deduct the amount we take in every ear. once you're citizen, it doesn't matter who you come from either. host: jeff, do you trust the president on this if caller: yes, i do. i love the president, in fact. host: so if he says this is a

good deal, you think the republicans should sign in on it? caller: yes, i trust a lot of republicans like tom condon, i don't trust lindsey graham. host: ok. you might be interest ised in this then. let me read from the "new york times." this is lindsey graham's response. they fought against hard line immigration policy says the senate was unlikely to simply accept the president's legislation. we're getting started without them, mr. flake said. mr. graham said this is a negotiation. your reaction, jeff. caller: they won't get re-elected. whatever they say, i do the opposite. i like cruz, cotton, more conservative types. host: well, senator lindsey graham was up for re-election recently and he won and senator

jeff flake decided not to run for re-election. let's go to velma who is in alabama, democrat. good morning to you. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, vell match. good morning. you're on the air. caller: trump guaranteed all of us in the united states that mexico was going to pay for the wall. now they've got the big tax break. we've got to cost of living raise on our social security. and our prescription drugs went up 10%. i don't trust them. deal. o to the i feel that mexico should pay for the wall and not only that, our medicare, our medicaid, all of this stuff is going to be cut. the tax break they got and if they give up this $25 million, we won't have anything left for our schools, us poor people

that's on social security, cost of living go up. host: and velma, i just want to clarify $25 billion. caller: $25 billion. yeah, we won't have anything for our schools, our health insurance, medicare, medicare -- medicaid. everything will be cut. host: so democrats should refuse it? caller: they should refuse it. we need our medicines. we need, you know, we need things here in the united states. we haven't even gotten any structure build since trump's been president. i am tired of seeing him on the news. i want to see something positive for a change. host: ok. ok. velma there in florence, alabama, a democrat. more of your calls coming in this morning and we'll take them here just a minute. but first, we want get an update on the world economic forum. jamie key tan is joining us on the phone.

how is the president being received there in davos? caller: -- guest: so far, there was one moment that was a bit of an applause for president trump. he also had a dinner last night with some c.e.o.'s that seem to be pretty effusive, particularly ith the tax cut. quietly in the back rooms and in the lobbys and hallways of this davos congress center. there are people that are grumbling. there are people from civil society who say that they need to hear a more positive message from him and one who did apologize for some of the more controversial remarks he's made in the past. host: well what is his goal of going to davos? guest: pretty much all observers

in the white house itself has said the real goal is to talk business. it's to show that america they're open for business and president trump is really eager to sort of explain the fine print of his america first policy to world decision makers and business leaders. you know, the highlight of yesterday, i think, for him anyway, was this dinner with the c.e.o.'s where he went around the table and he talked about each one of them and asked them questions and about what their investment plans and what their businesses were like. he seem to a large extent in his element. and i think that so there is a twofold sort of mixed reaction but at least in the optics, mostly what we're seeing is sort of the side that he wants to convey, which is the business america open for business. host: so what are you looking for when he addresses this crowd

in less than 45 minutes, about 40 minutes? what are you watching and listening for? guest: i think we as well as everyone else in the room -- i'm sitting in the room now and people are sort of gradually filing in, the -- i think what we're really looking for here is to see this sort of tone that president trump is going to trike. i spoke to david gergen and he was saying that the real question is what kind of message does president trump want to convey? does he want to speak directly to his base back in the united states? or does he want to speak to the internationalist globalist crowd here and the business leaders here and how does he strike that balance? so i think that's what we're really all going to be looking for today. host: can he do both? will he do both?

guest: they've played the speech pretty close to the vest for the moment. we're really just going to have to wait and see exactly what he's going to say. but we do have the sense that it may be something of a brief speech. so we'll just have to stay tuned to see exactly what he's going to say. host: how has davos been different than years past? guest: right. well, this is my third davos and i can tell you that there are a number of very high profile people who come here. last year, we had the chinese president who was kind of the star of the show. he came in, of course, right at the same time that president trump was being inaugurated. so there's obviously a lot of decision makers and elites here. n terms of the sort of the security deployment and whatnot, it's pretty standard, i would

say. i mean, president trump has been coming through, walking through the main atrium area in the walk ways pretty openly. and the security presence hasn't been so severe in that regard. president trump obviously brings a large security contingent wherever he goes. so the -- when he flies by helicopter or whatnot. and the typical davos, you know, hiccup, you know. this year there happens to be a lot of snow. and more than usual. and as a matter of fact just as a quick anecdote, there was some small groups of swiss protestors that wanted to actually have a protest here in town yesterday and they asked for authorization to be able to do so near the train station. and the local authorities said no, you're not going to be allowed to do it because there's so much snow that you -- we don't have space for you because it's piled so high. so we can't accommodate you. and they essentially for, you

know, that was their explanation for why they couldn't have the authorize the protest this year. host: all right. well, president trump, the first president to go to the world economic forum since bill clinton did in his last year of his presidency. jamie keaten, chief correspondent with the "associated press," thank you for your time. guest: thanks for having me. host: and jamie keaten in the room where the president will be giving his remarks here in a ittle over 30 minutes. we're going to be talking about our remarks the last hour of the "washington journal" so much call in with your questions and comments then about globalization versus nationalist policies. we'll talk with an expert from the peterson institute about all of that. but back to our conversation here is the morning with all of you about the president's offer of the white house.

the "washington times" calls it a centrist position from the p. trump outbids obama on dreamers amnesty and says that trump, under the president's vision which he will submit to congress next week, he will grant legal status to fewer than the three million people under the plan. -- host: angela in chicago. what do you think of this offer? caller: i think the offer is awful. i don't think you should give amnesty. i think as the older and grown daca people like the gentleman

said first, they should apply for a visa. they can do that. the younger ones, the parents should be deported and send their children with them to get the children back home where they can live a law-abiding life. if you're a citizen and you commit a crime and you're on the run for the law and you take your children with you, that's child abuse. you get punished for the crime and for what you're doing to those children. that's no way to bring a child up as a criminal. and whenever people come across the border with children, they should be the first ones to get deported back with their children so this doesn't continue to happen. it's bad for kids to happen. and the other point i wanted to make is it didn't vote for trump. he's so obnoxious when i see him on tv, i turn the channel. the thing he should have done

day one and at least do now is stop this practice of if you're born in this country, you're automatically a citizen even if your parents are here illegally. if you are a citizen wherever your children are born, they're citizens. but it doesn't mean if you come from any other country. your child is automatically an american citizen just because he's born here. that should be stopped. these things would deter people bringing kids across here and coming here to have children and help prevent the kind of daca situation we have. host: ok, angela, i heard your thoughts. on the president's record, immigration record, "washington times" note that they say it's incomplete. thursday marked one year since president trump issued two major executive order. he has made significant strides in deportations from the interior but struggles to make good on his goals of strengthening the southwestern

border. this is what they say he has done. changed enforcement priorities, added cities and counts to enforcement programs -- host: teresa in blares town, new jersey, a democrat. good morning. you are next. good morning. caller: yes. am i on the air? host: you are on the air. good morning. go ahead. caller: ok, fine. good morning. i believe that the dreamers should go along the process for them is fine. their spouses, their children. no parents at all. we are being trade upon as the

public in our emotions and i do have emotions to them. but people don't realize. our fellow americans don't realize there are thousands, if not more foster kids that are thrown on the streets at 18 and most of them don't do well at all after that. and if it was up to the democrats, they would just flood this country with immigration without any incriminately. i think the dreamers should be scanned too. but incriminately and if this country goes down, they depend when we have one out of five children chat are going to bed hungry, we should be putting our efforts to this country first. host: ok. morrises in san diego, a republican. morris, your thoughts. caller: hi, greta.

earlier callers have stolen my thunder. these kids came over with their parents. i get it. they had no say in the matter so on. but they're still here illegally. and i think it's wrong to give them a place ahead in the line for those that are waiting legally to come across. i don't think that that is right. the other thing is these democrats who say oh, a wall is ineffective. i can tell you firsthand that wall is effective because in san diego, i grew up in san diego for about 25 years. and years ago, when you drop off a fare at the border, coming back up at interstate 805 or interstate 5, it was like a human obstacle course trying to get around all the illegals running up the freeway cross the border. sense fences do work. and illegal immigration across areborder in san diego both

down to almost zero. so as far as the deal goes, i think it's a sweetheart deal for the democrats. i'm surprised they are not just high fiving each other all over the place. i mean, to twice the number of daca or those qualified as daca. host: twice that number, uh-huh. caller: well, so that's a great deal. and the $25 follow the border is going to have to pay for one way or another. donald trump is going to get that fence or the wall or whatever you want to call it eventually. it's a great deal for the democrats. i think trump shouldn't have drawn as -- gone as far as he did by saying he would give that many -- and they shouldn't become citizens either ever. they might be here illegally, that's fine but to give them step up, no way. it's just a ploy by the democrats to try to get more votes because the mexicans probably would vote for them in the election. so that's what it's all about.

host: all right. morris there, a republican in california. more of your calls but first some headlines for you. representative joe kennedy will be deliver the democratic response to the president's state of the union address this tuesday evening. kennedy is the great nephew of former president john f. kennedy and is currently serving his third term as a massachusetts congress man. and from the hillary newspaper this morning, a "the hill "newspaper this morning, meehan will not seek re-election after sexual harassment backlash of it became known that he settled a case with an aide that he had alled his soul mate. the house to vote on sexual

assault report bill after the nassar sentencing. this is from "the hill." and they're reporting that the house will vote on legislation next week to force athletic organizations to report sexual abuse allegations more quickly in the aftermath of the sentencing of that gymnastics doctor, larry nassar. lawmakers are expected to consider the final version of the bill monday. the house is out this week but that is on -- in the docket for next week. let's go to mark who's in indianapolis, a republican. hi, mark. caller: hi. good morning. how are you? host: good morning to you. go ahead. caller: i'd like to say that i really don't think that the daca kids should be able to stay here. we have kids here that needs a lot of help, you know, grew up with our government. and the thing of it too is if he and my wife decided to break the

law, is our government going to reward our kids? i mean, that's what i get out of this? i'm just going to say no. i don't think they should be here. host: ok. robert in california, independent. hi, robert. caller: hi, greta. last time i saw you was during the -- clips and tried to call you but you were busy. i'd like to mention this. my brother, paul, went to mexico, was married in 1988. within five years, he had over 40 members of heb family, including her parent, both parents, brothers, sisters, ousins and all and here we are 2018 and i asked him what's the breakdown on it? how many are working? what's going on? he said well, one third of them are actually really good workers. one third of them collect welfare stamps. and he says one third of them are really bad or in jail. and i go oh, my gosh, i go so what do you think about the daca?

and he goes i am really scared of my own family members. i'm hispanic. mostly apache indiana. i have compensation but i have reservations too. and if i were mr. trump, i would be very careful on what he wishes for. because maybe it's not so good for the country or, you know, for everyone here. i think of safety. and it's really important to me, you know. the safety factor. i would say some of these are really good decent people, but when you get back into the bad and -- host: well, what if the white house were to say and the homeland security department say we're going to vet these people like they currentlessly that daca certification? they vet them through the system and they have to get in line for a pathway to citizenship that could take 10 to 12 years. are you on board? caller: you know, ma'am, vetting as you say, if it's done

correctly and i mean, very correctly, and if they were to go and look at their path, you know, if they're from guatemala, mexico, wherever they're from and find out if there's any criminality in their background, i would be very suspicious. if they can really vet them. if hay get those governments to cooperate with our government, i would say ok, yes. the vetting, what you just said, i would go with that. yeah. host: ok. robert in california. this is the headline on cnn's website this morning. john kelly the chief of staff stayed in washington for immigration negotiations. the chief of staff there not with the president in davos, switzerland as he, this morning gets ready for his speech here in 20 minutes. c-span2, c-span.org or the free c-span radio app if you want to listen to that speech. let's go to maurice in bellwood, illinois, a democrat. hi, maurice, good morning to you. caller: yeah, good morning.

the media liberal or would accept this -- when black people were breaking the laws and trying to survive for their family. i think y'all hypocrites. you get on with the -- host: so the response from easy to advocating for the children that were brought here, the deferred action arrivals program would say they're not criminals. these are, you know, young adults who have been in this country and they are good citizens. they're going to school. they have to prove it. they are going to school. they don't have a criminal background record. caller: right. i mean, that's a weak argument to say well, you know, it's no fault of your own. and like i said, it's no fault of a lot of black kids right in the situation they're in because of the system. and you -- their argument is they should be able to gang the

system but unfortunately, black poem, a lot of them haven't been able to gang the system because of the prejudices and the biases and it just seems like i said, you want people -- you're putting the argument feel sorry for them because they need to gang a system. and like i said, you guys never felt sorry for black people and it's just hypocritical. host: all right. heard the point. making the argument that some counterargument to yours, some that lawmakers would make who are advocating for this daca population. headlines and updates on republicans releasing attempts from the f.b.i. missing f.b.i. texts have been discovered by the i.g. of the justice department. mr. horowitz is the general -- inspector general said in it that they succeeded using forensic tools to recover messages between f.b.i. agents --

host: the senate judiciary committee intends to release transcript of its interviews with president trump's son, donald trump jr. and others who participated in the june 26 meeting at trump tower promising damaging information about hillary clinton. so those transcripts will be released. and then you also have "the washington post" this morning. their editorial about republicans complicity, they say. congressional leaders stay silent under the rule of law. this moment is different. republicans have embarked on a smear campaign --

host: so that this morning. and "politico" reports that defiant republicans are ready to send the secret russian memo to trump a review of the house intelligence committee's 13 g.o.p. members. so firm support for what a top justice department calls an extraordinarily reckless move and it could come next week. and they are on the verge of defying the department of justice in voting to release a classified memo that would reveal a missed conduct novembered in investigating the president's campaign. so that is the latest on that. let's go to tony in arizona, an

independent. hi there, tony. your thoughts on this immigration deal steroid up by the white house. caller: good morning, greta and ood morning to you team. i support my local chief county sheriff mark daniels. and i'm also a retired military officer who's certified in acquisition. the president is about 80% short on what he needs. and here's why. as a trained acquisition professional, anything you buy, ou need to plan 80% of the original purchase price for maintenance in order to keep it looking the way it was

contracted. so if we build this $25 billion wall and what's going to happen to it 10 years from now? 20 years from now? 50 years from now? guess what? ifuisition chains you to say it costs $25 billion, then plan 80% of the purchase price to keep it looking the way you contract ited for it. host: let's hear from robert from massachusetts. our last. caller: i would like to say one thing. paul ryan and mitch mcconnell could have ended this a long time ago. how do we have two people running this country? two individuals. mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. he brings to it the house. it's not going to pass in the senate. the senate sent it back. it's like a game you play in

college. first of all the brothers that you called up, i want to make one point where he was saying that you cut him up about black people. daca hurts black communities. you go to any black community and you look at every corner store. there's -- that own that store in our community you. democrats, you fight, you don't fight for us but you fight for the daca. and this is very, very important. what's going on in chicago, democrats? why don't you fight for them? there's a lot of problems in chicago. our public school systems, the white folks move out of this city and leave us black people to pay for the taxes for the daca kids. and i'm tired of you democrats taking advantage of our rope and we're going to get you back at the end of this year. host: robert, how are you going to vote in 2018 then? caller: i'm going to vote -- if john kerry runs, i'm going to run for him.

i don't need cory booker, stupid bernie sanders and all these way, way left. we need someone -- with a to do in d.c. and if we don't get john kerry, we got to run joe biden. we cannot take this no more. host: ok, robert there in massachusetts on our line for democrats. we're going to take a short break. when we come back, turn this year's flu season. would be of the worst and dr. anthony fauci will be here to talk about it and then later, author sam quinones who will be discussing the ongoing federal response the opioid epidemic. we'll be right back. ♪ >> sunday night on after word,

republican national committee kaley on her book the "new american revolution: the making of a populous movement." she is interviewed by matt lewis. >> conservative says to me why do you use this word? i'm not a populist and i've had liberals express the version to that word. this book is about the people and i want to honestly profile the people on the left and on the right and most of the voters i profiled were trump voters but i did profile some who were not. to me, it was capturing the sentiment that drove an electorate to therefore one of the most astonishing electoral -- we've seen in my lifetime and certainly i think in modern history. so the profile of the american people on different issues from terrorism to poison waters in flint, michigan.

c-span's history series returns next month with a look at 12 new supreme court cases. historians and experts join us to discuss the constitutional issues and personal stories behind these significant supreme court decisions. beginning monday, february 26, live at 9:00 p.m. eastern. and to help you better understand each case, we have a companion guide written by tony morrow, landmark case, volume two. the book costs $8.95 plus shipping and handling. to get your copy go to c-span.org/landmarkcases. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome back to the "washington journal" dr. anthony fauci, director of national institute of allergy & infectious disease. doctor, always good to have you. talking about the flu season. guest: yes, indeed. host: so why is this on the record as becoming one of the

worst that we've seen? guest: well there are a couple of reasons on the first thing you start up with the virus itself. and when you have a flu season, there are multiple viruses that circulate. they designated by certain letters and numbers. h 1 and n one. when it dominants a season, it is a bad virus. right away, you have one strike against you and right now, this is an h 3 n 2, a historically, if you look at the flu season over the last 10 years or soshes it's always the one that is associated with more severe disease, with more complication. you superimpose upon that, the fact that the vaccine is not effective this time. in general flu vaccines are not as effective as vaccines against other vaccines like measles and smallpox and polio and things like that that are 99% effective. at best a flu vaccine is going

to be 60% effective. we're projecting it likely will be only about 30% effective. you still should get vaccinated. so you have a combination of a really bad virus to begin with and a vaccine that's not, you know, protected and you wind up something that is a severe season. >> with a makes the virus bad and what are the symptoms? guest: the inherent nature is that it's more -- we call it virulence. it's the kind of things that gives it more severe disease. the symptoms are flu -- of flu and that's a good question. there are a lot of respiratory viruses that go around and generally cause an upper airwave problem, shore throat, sneezing. people think they may have the flu. when you have the flu, that's a systematic disease. you feel like you got hit by a truck when you really get with it the flu. so it can be serious, particularly in people who have underlying conditions that make

them susceptible to complication, the elderly. that's when you get in trouble. host: is it a slow progression or does it hit you all of a sudden? guest: it hits you all of a sudden. i got the flu when i was -- years ago. actually i was on the ward taking on patients on round and i remember just as i got up in the morning, i didn't feel quite right. i felt ok the day before. and then as i was making rounds on the patients, all of a sudden, i felt achy and chilly and i couldn't continue. i had to go home. by the time i got home, it was terrible. i mean, i had aches and high fever and then it came with the respiratory infection and the cough and all that sort of thing. host: well, why -- what are you seeing across the country? how quickly is it spreading and where is it -- where are you seeing the high numbers? guest: ok some there are two aspects of it that was a tip-off from the beginning that things were not going to be good.

at first, it was an early started start to the season. sometimes the season starts slow then you get cases that come down. this started early and had a very strong strict tra trajectory upward. so the acceleration was way up. the other aspect that was somewhat unique is that when the c.d.c. maps out the country and shows widespread activity, regional activity, local activity, sporadic activity, usually, it's sport of spotty. some parts of the country are wide spread. this is the first time when essentially the entire country 49 out of the 50 states were widespread at the same time. so it was really kind of an explosion out there. and that was somewhat unique. we never really seen it that way before. and the trajectory goes up in a very sharp way. mimics a bit the serious in

2014, 2015 and 2012, 2013. we knew we were in for a bad and also, australia, which in the southern hemisphere generally gets their flu season before we get our flu seasons. they had a really bad year. so it was kind of all of the stars were aligning that this was going to be a bad season. host: why does it spread so wide and quickly? guest: well it's a respiratory borne virus and those are the ones that are the bad actors that are spreading actively and that's what we're concerned about ultimately having a pandemic in which you have a brand-new virus. it's spread by dop lets. so when people sneeze and cough, there are droplets that can go a short distance but if you are within a couple of feet, you can get transmitted. and also there was a recent study that came out that will so it also spreads by aerosol, which means a very, very fine particle that. it can go across the room you don't have to be very, very close. and then the standard way people

sneeze and cough. they get it on their hands, they shake hands with you. you grab a doorknob. and that's the reason why you say you should wash your hands as up a as you possibly can. to the extent possible, you should do that. host: the last time we spoke with you, you talked about how many times you wash your hands. guest: yeah. [laughter] i don't want to have seem too obsessively compulsive to people but every chance you get. turf do a lot particularly when you're at the hospital. but in general when i'm in my office, people come in, they greet you, they shake hands. i always try to the extent possible to wash my hands. host: i know our viewers must have a lot of questions and comments for you about what they're seeing and experiencing themselves. we've divided the lines by regions. eastern central part of the country, dial tone iphone and the mountain-pacific area, 202-748-8001. we would love to hear from doctors and nurse as well. those in the medical community

about what you're seeing if your questions and comments for dr. fauci. the vaccine, you noted. you still should get it but not effective this year. why not? guest: well, a couple of reasons. in general, even without any mishaps, a flu tends to more than most other viruses mutate and we call it drifting so even if you have the same general strain like an h 3 n 2 from one year to the other, it drifts and mutates a bit. the problem is it general lemieux tates at that part a particular molecule or a protein on the influenza that's responsible for the immune response to protect you against it. so you may have some underlying protection from either previous exposure or a vaccine and then it changes a bit from year-to-year which necessitates the reason why you might ask a reasonable question. why do you have to get vaccinated every year for a

disease like meaningfuls or other? you get it -- measles or others? it's that continued changing. the problem this year was an extra added risk. and that was we have the way we make vaccine is we grow them in eggs or cells. this year when the vaccine was made, the choice of what virus to use for the vaccine was fundamentally the correct choice. when it was put in the eggs and we can get to why an antiquated way to make the eggs, as it was adapting itself to grow in the eggs in the process of manufacturing the vaccine, it adapts is to grow better in eggs. and by adapting itself, it mutated. that's not so un-- surprising. but it mutated on that part of the molecule that's responsible for inducing protection. so you have a risky situation

with a virus that inherently itself drifts from season to season. and then you make the vaccine and it so happens this year that the mutation that occurred as you are making the vaccine makes it a double whammy of having a problem with the vaccine. host: why can't the government or pharmaceutical stop the production and start over? guest: great question, very logical question. and that's the reason why we're trying to get away from this long drawn-out as i mentioned, antiquated process of making a vaccine. so the way it works is that when we're going to be thinking about what we're going to vaccinate with next season, namely the 2018-2019 season, somewhere around the end of february, march, you make an intelligent guess as it were, based on a number of reasonable factors of what we're going to see next year. then you start the process, which generally takes at least six months. so if you start the process, you

have april, may, june, july, august, september. if somewhere in that period of time the virus in the community starts to change, you say i think we didn't get it quite right. it's already too late because the horse is out of the barn. because if you decide in august or september that you really want to now go differently, by the time you get that vaccine, the flu season is over and that's the problem, which is the reason why we've been emphasizing we've got to get away from that time honored but antiquated process of many, many months to make it as well as getting a vaccine which we call a universal flu vaccine that would be able to cover all the strains, even the ones that change a bit so that you can actually make it and stockpile it instead of having to always chase after it. i recently a few weeks ago wrote kind of a perspective in the "new england journal of medicine" and i used the terminology chasing seasonal flu

it and actually feels that way after all these years. you're always chasing after it as opposed to saying we have it down. we know what we're doing. host: let's hear from our viewers. darlene in las vegas. you're up first. good morning. question or comment here for the doctor? caller: question, sir. good morning. i was wondering ms-59. as you are the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious disease, you know that it is being tested since 1991, correct? guest: right. are you talking about the -- caller: yes. and how exceptionally dangerous it is. flu ggest maker of the -- ine actually did there unfortunately their own study on his tracking it and it sounded

it's the injection of ms-59 that causes the body to start response andt is its own normar the booster doses don't help. was the absolute cause of gulf war syndrome. host: let's doubt there. dr. fauci? caller: the vaccine is used to getting more potent response. i have two respectfully disagree just called.on who ms-59 has been used in tens of millions of people and there is no issue with safety. i have a disagreement with that statement. host: jim and virginia. good morning. guest: good morning. caller: good morning.

maybe you can resolve this dispute. anti-vaccine the movement that is paranoid. how would you respond to her claim? i get vaccinated and would like our daughter to appear in claims that doctors are spokesman's of pharmaceutical companies are trying to push drugs on us and they don't know what it is. i say you have spent years studying this pure how can you respond to that so i can talk her into it. host: is your wife there? no.er: thing you do is don't show them disrespect by pooh-poohing their concerns.

unfortunately, it is not based on scientific evidence. if you look at the benefit of vaccines, it is so overwhelming. it is one of the most public health absence is of any serious adverse events. the difficulty is that it relates to false information. the biggest one is that if you get vaccinated, particularly with measles, months, rubella, -- months, and rubella that it is the cause of autism. that is what was years ago propagated by a physician in the united kingdom based on salacious data that was essentially fraudulent and it was proven to be fraudulent. the trouble is when it gets out does not get erased, even though the person's license was revoked by the authorities in england. then you get other situations

where you see reports of injuries to children who are vaccinated. first of all, there is no absolutelyn that is 100 percent safe. there are so many instances of things that happen to children at around the time they get vaccinated that even if you do a study to show that children who don't get vaccinated, the same sorts of things happened to them. there is an understandable association of causality that is not there. the only thing that i can say to the caller about trying to convince his wife is go back and take a look at evidence base and not rumor or innuendo. when you get to that science, the science overwhelmingly proves that vaccines are very, very safe and many of the adverse things that occur are not really causality. host: james in wakefield, virginia appeared you are next. caller: i would like to ask

about the central virus. you have a lot of people with illegal immigrants coming to the united states and the zika virus has come along with them and also from puerto rico that had 3.5 million coming over here, especially in florida with the zika virus is the most widespread. is the cdc know, how handling that situation as far as the zika virus is concerned? are times when information comes directly to you you downplay and you don't give the public enough information, but this summer will be a lot worse from last year due to the hurricanes in texas and along the coastline. host: let's get a response from dr. fauci. guest: zika had an outbreak in south america and frederico --

puerto rico in 2016. the level of zika activity is extraordinary low now. if you look at mosquito borne viruses in south america and rico, yougo -- puerto need to understand that sometimes there is a tendency to say it is the immigrants fall and stop immigration to the united states. you have to understand that if you look at just travel, not even people who are so-called emigrating, but people who go about for business, it is over a given year the communication back and forth between the north and south is about 300 million trips that people make. immigrants it is that are bringing it over, right away you have to take that off the table because it is not the case. no matter who it is, if you look at locally transmitted cases of zika in the united states in the

year that we had a lot of zika, there were a couple of hundred cases in florida, and a very small cluster in texas. seas will not, on the basis of so many -- zika will not come on the basis of so many factors of mosquito control, even though you have to be careful, if you want to check yourself against zika, particularly if you are a woman who is pregnant or intending to get pregnant, you should not travel to those areas in the region, south america or level rico that have low of zika activity. to worry about the opposite direction that we will have a zika outbreak that has disseminated throughout the country, it is just not going to happen. you will have travel related cases for sure. we have 5000 travel related cases during the peak of it. many of the people came to the united states were businessmen or business women traveled got infected and came back or people

who just went on vacation and traveled and came back. it was travel related. the local cases were relatively few. marjorie in pratt, west virginia. good morning to you p you are on the air with dr. fauci. caller: good morning to you both. i found to news reports i would like you to comment on. two weeks ago, i saw a report lts when theyt adu get a temperature of 101 with flu symptoms that they should go to the emergency room. i would news report like you to talk about was a couple of days ago when a little girl from north carolina who parents had taken her to express andke a med

they treated her and gave her tamiflu and sent her home. it she was having trouble breathing and the parents called the paramedics and they came and checked her out and said they thought she would be ok and the parents did not take her on to the er, and she did die. the 101ious about degree temperature that we were told by a medical doctors. host: ok, marjorie. guest: i will be cautious about saying what a medical doctor or told someone but i will make some general statements. when a person feels a badly and they get a fever, there are so many reasons. if everybody that a 101 fever went to the er, we would have a serious problem with crowding. what the article or the medical authorities were trying to say is that if you get the flu and you really feel badly, you can

benefit from tamiflu. what they really mean is that don't hesitate if you feel badly . if someone gets up and has aches and pains and fever, but it g like it is progressing, you don't have to go to the er. with theoes help duration of the symptoms. what is much more important about a level of fever and the emergency room is that if you're in one of the risks categories that has a high incidence of complications if you are elderly or have a chronic condition like heart disease, lung disease, obesity, pregnant, children less than five years old, that is when you want to have a short trigger finger on giving that person tamiflu because it can prevent them from going on to serious competitions. host: when is that point? if you are a mother of a five-year-old or younger when do

you go to the doctor and when do you go to the emergency room? guest: that is getting to the point that the caller may have been referring to. if the child has a fever that is looking like the child is think poorly, i would not feel hesitant to make a call and get some advice from a physician of what to do or take the child to the appropriate health care provider. particularly for children less than a five years old, they are much more at risk for getting a serious convocation then others. from five to 18, it is generally very unusual there will be a publication. younger children are really the ones. the second part of the question was important. every once in a while a child or an adult who is otherwise perfectly healthy gets into a rare but terribly tragic

situation of being perfectly healthy getting the flu and ultimately dying from the flu, it tells us a number of things. flu is a serious disease and that is why we talk about the recommendations of don't mess around with it in doubt. get someone on therapy. it also tells us it is a rare event. if it can kill a child or an adult who is healthy, it tells you what it can really do for someone who has an underlying condition. that is why we take influenza very seriously. host: if you haven't gotten the flu shot and you are feeling a little under the weather, should you wait or just get the flu shot? guest: it depends on what you mean on under the weather. if you are feeling poorly and you have a fever, with -- which means you have an infection, you should wait until the infection clears. it is the -- if it is the flu, vaccinating you for the flu isn't going to help.

if it is a benign virus, get over that and get the flu shot. is, isstion i get asked it too late to get the flu shot? it is not too late to get the flu shot. if you look at the curve, even though it was up and we hope it will plateau and come down, there is a lot of influenza on the other side. just because it may not be bp, there is still a lot of influenza activity, and you can peak, there is still a lot of influence activity, and you can benefit. host: go ahead with your question. caller: i wanted to ask the doctor about the fact that there is work being done with anna biotics and cures -- antibiotics , with the white blood

cells, there should be emphasis put on hospital facilities using it. host: we will take that up. prevention is extraordinarily important in disease. if you can prevent it, you don't have to worry about treating it. we have been speaking about vaccinations, but there are others. is, since this is respiratory born and can be spread bright droplets, when you are in the middle of the flu season, you can try and not get yourself into situations and crowded places that are poorly ventilated because that is how viruses spread. we spoke about washing your hands to the extent that you possibly can. service.munity if you are sick and have the

flu, you should not go to work. even though you say people have to go to work, you can't go and you should not send your child to school if they are sick. if you happen to be coughing and sneezing, do not spread it. you can do the famous things that we say like coughing into your sleeve. host: there are environments that you cannot control. guest: absolutely. host: children in a classroom is like a petri dish. guest: that is why you say when a child is sick, don't send them to school because they will affect everyone else. host: charles in jasper, indiana. caller: my question is, when do you take the tamiflu? guest: tamiflu works best if you take it as soon as you can, within 24 to 48 hours. there was a feeling some time ago that once you get be on that

, that tamiflu does not give benefit. there have been recent studies that show even several days out you can get some benefit from tamiflu, even though the optimum benefit is when you take it very early. it should also be emphasized that tamiflu is not the knockout pill for the flu. it diminishes the symptoms, but does not essentially get rid of it the way you take a shot of someone and you have gotten rid of a bacterial pneumonia. the other thing about tamiflu is that it is not the perfect medication, it can really mitigate and prevent you from going on to more serious convocations. if you have the flu, and you get tamiflu, you could prevent getting a serious complication. it decreases the hospitalization and it is not the perfect antiviral. host: is there enough tamiflu the season? guest: broadly when you look at the con -- country it is, but

there are some spots. there was a report recently that california got hit particularly deadly and they ran out in some areas of tamiflu, yet there was totally enough tamiflu around, it was just a distribution disparity. host: alfredo in st. petersburg, florida. thank you for waiting. guest: yes, good morning. yes, good morning. i would like to know if funding has been in any way cut by this administration, and if so, how does that affect your priorities? as far as your work? a yourwhen you sit funding, i can only speak for the national into toots -- institute of health and i am one of the directors. although the president's budget

over the fiscal year that we are in now called for a cut to the nih budget, the budget we have as actually been rescued by the congress. the congress has not allowed a cut in the nih budget. last fiscal year, which is now coming into this fiscal year that we are currently in which is 2018, they gave us a couple of billion dollar increase. we had a budget a year and a half ago that was part of what we call an omnibus bill in which multiple local agencies get funded and the omnibus bill, the congress helped us by not cutting us and giving us an increase. since we are on a continuing resolution, we have a carryover of last year's budget. in essence, we have not been cut. the short answer is that our budget has not been cut. host: the government shutdown,

how to to prepare for and how did it impact nih? guest: that is one of the things that everyone agrees with, shutting down the government is not a good idea. what happens is when you shut down the government, you have to prepare for it. even though it was shut down for a very short. of time, it took us about two or three days to prepare for how to shut down the government, deciding who is an essential employee and not essential employee. that designation alone is want of the biggest damages you have that you have to tell somebody who is really working very hard to protect the health of the nation and say you're not essential and you have go home. that is really a morale pick in the butt as it were. host: can research hold? thet: thank goodness shutdown was for a brief. of time and resolved -- period of time and it resolved.

talking about research, realistically, it won't have an impact. when you shut the government down for two or three weeks, from the standpoint of research, there is always a negative effect of shutting the government down at any time. but when you talk about research, which is measured in months or years, when you have a day shutdown, it did not impact. it was more a morale or inconvenience problem and diverting us things from -- that we should have been doing. when it gets longer, that is when you get into trouble. host: in what way? scientists take the at the nih who are doing experiments. one we prepare for, even though it was short, we had to tell the scientists that they had to stop their experiments. experiments are not just one day experiments. if you have someone doing

experiments that last for three or four or five months and they are in the second month of the experiment, and then they have to stop it and freeze down the cells or do what you do, that can seriously interfere. host: so they have to start over? guest: they may have to start over. the one thing we did that people need to know is that we have a condo -- clinical center at the nih and we were never in danger of hurting the patients. anyone who was taking care of patients was still there. the only thing that stopped was that you did not admit new patients into the protocol, which was a problem. at least the patients that were there and on the protocol had no interruption in their care. host: the overall budget? guest: my overall budget is close to $5 billion. the nih is $34 billion. host: we're going to indianapolis with victoria.

good morning. caller: good morning. am i on the air now? host: yes, you are. caller: i have a question. i have ongoing medical ailments. i had a stomach ailment the other day and i was vomiting profusely. i was told in my on-call nurse to go to the er, and i was hesitant to go there because of the flu epidemic in the city. i did not want to be a noncompliant patient, but i did not want to go. i didn't know if i had made the right decision or not. can you tell me, perhaps. guest: one of the dangerous things is making a diagnosis over the phone when you don't see the patient.

you're concerned about going to a place where there may be a lot of individuals who have influenza is a reasonable concern. a lot of people feel they want to stay away from emergency rooms and doctors offices if you don't need to go. you should not withhold important medical care because you are afraid of getting influenza in the facility you are going to. it really depends on the "symptoms" that you have. if you are having diarrhea and you are not getting dehydrated and it seems to be getting better, you may not necessarily have to go to the emergency room. if you have serious disease where you are losing fluid and you cannot keep anything down any have diarrhea and vomiting, you may have to get hydrated. you shouldn't worry about what is going to happen to you any emergency room, you should worry about the fact that you have to go to the emergency room. it is a judgment call on how

serious your problem is. budget for your institute, how much is on flu vaccination and research? guest: about $260 million total on flu. couple ofer the last months, reordered some priorities in the institute. i held a workshop that was both national and international north of the nih and brought in a investigators all over the country and world to fashion a 21st century, 2018 version of a strategic plan of a research agenda to develop a universal flu vaccine. what you will see over the next couple of years, is that hopefully will get more money, but even if we don't, shift priorities to make sure we put more of an emphasis and make influence of and the development of a universal influenza vaccine a high priority within the top two or three in the institute. that, whathe key to

is the new technology you are looking at to make a universal flu vaccine? a really good question. right now, vaccines that are made against flu, when you get the right match, you get good protection. but it is made against that part of the flu that has the tendency to change from season to season. the last several years, researchers happen able to identify that part of the thatenza protein molecule does not change much at all from season to season. right now, the technology is to try and get a vaccine that would be specifically making a response to that part of the virus that does not change from season to season. if you do and it drifts a little, the part that does not drift is the one you want to make an immune response. that is a fundamental strategy of a universal flu vaccine. host: beryl and washington, d.c., good morning to you. inelr: -- mar

washington, d.c., good morning to you. preservative,is a if you can't get a single dose and it makes me quite ill. i have been told that i should not be using it with that preservative. there are some who tell me it is actually mercury and perhaps that is the problem. aatever it is, i cannot get flu shot because of the preservative. host: ok, dr. you are shaking your head? guest: do not prevent yourself from getting the flu shot because of the concern that your calling a mercury preservative in the influenza. there is overwhelming data that many influenza shots don't have any preservative at all, and the

ones that do are the multidose files, there is no question that overwhelming evidence that is completely safe and it is not anything at all to do with toxicity. it would be a shame if you didn't get a flu vaccine because you were whirring about something that was a nonissue -- worrying about something that was a nonissue. at your age, 80 years old, you should really get the vaccine. host: nasal spray are shot? guest: nasal spray is out for this year. definitely a shot. host: why that? guest: there were issues from previous years that it was not effective and there was a mutation or whatever it was, but the companies are working on that to try and get it back into the mix. right now, the ones we use our injectable. host: marilyn in maryland. years: my sister is 66

old and allergic to eggs, so she is told she cannot take the flu shot. is there an alternative for her, and are you working on a vaccine that isn't cultured in an egg solution? guest: a two-part answer to your question. first of all, there are flu vaccines right now that are grown in cells and there is a recombinant dna type of approach noted flu block that is anything but recumbent dna technology. there are other technologies. even if the only thing that was available that was grown in eggs, it was shown that even with people who have well-known egg allergies that the incidence of their being any real problem add an a grown vaccine -- rown vaccine, the

allergy part is not as bad as we previously thought. host: one of the company names that make the flu vaccination? that. i can't get into we talked generically. be construed as saying this company has one better than the other. host: the industry, give us an idea of the industry. guest: there are about five or six companies that make the flu vaccine. there are different versions of it. vaccine that is a trivalent. there is one that is quadra valent it has two d's plus an h2n2 and n1. there is one for elderly officials -- elderly people that is stronger. there is a were commented dna

technology. dnahere is a recombinant technology. if you don't to someplace you can ask them for the specific one. host: how much do these companies make? i don'to be honest, know. i'm not holding it back, but i don't know. accine industries are not blockbuster, big moneymaking industry. that is one of the reasons we try very hard to work with the companies because they get out of the vaccine much more often than they try to get into the vaccine industry. it is a very fragile industry as opposed to block buster drugs that people use every day, antihypertensive, lipid lowering agents, viagra-type agents. those are the blockbuster ones. host: let's hear from stan and

alabama. stan, can you make your question quick? caller: yes, dr. fauci, i am 80 shot old and i had a flu in 1955 when i went into the army. ever had another flu shot, which i am not recommending that people don't take flu shots. i think they should. i have never had either one of , and i worked around a lot of people for about 45 years before i retired, i never had a common cold. i haven't had a common cold and over 50 years. 's genes.ant stan cans of you will get a cold and some people not? -- can someone get a cold and

some people not? guest: there are some people who some likeittently and the caller who never seem to get it. that is just how it is in the human species. it is possible that the color has gotten expo -- caller gotten exposed. not everyone is manifested by illness. sometimes you get subclinical and could have gotten a booster. luckyd say the color is and he has good genes. i also would not say at 80 years old that your luck is going to continue with regard to respiratory illnesses. i like what he said. he said he is not recommending that people don't get vaccinated . i recommend to you, sir, at 80 years old, even though you have had a good run now with

respiratory illnesses, you should get the flu shot now that you are 80 because if you do get the flu, you're more prone to convocations than others. host: dr. fauci, before we let you go, is there something you can do to boost your own microorganisms or things that you have seen on the market? guest: there is nothing specific that you can say is going to boost your immune system. it is just kind of healthy living, good nutrition, sleep, not overexertion. thisy that if you get probiotic or that vitamin, it is substantially, and i may be good reasons to do that, but there is no real evidence that will prevent you from getting the flu. dr. anthony fauci, we are was appreciate the conversation. thank you for being here. we come back, we'll talk to author sam quinones and get a response to the opioid academic. 'ster, the peterson institute

adam posen will be here to speak at the -- about the annual forum in switzerland and what is at stake there. we will be right back. >> the president of the united states. [applause] night, president trump gives his first state of the union address. join us for a preview. then, the state of the union speech live at 9:00 p.m. following the speech, the democratic response and we will hear your reaction and congress -- embers of congress. theident trump's state of need address, tuesday night live on c-span. pp.ten to the free c-span a

i described this at the time and i describe it as a bizarre moment. it was a surprise when he called me over, but he is the president of the united states and you are in the oval office and if he says, who are you come over here , you have to. >> sunday night on q&a, a washington correspondent talks about covering president trump and supporters for the irish media during and after the 2016 election season. >> drain the swamp as three words is incredibly provocative. playing on the notion that d.c. was built on a swamp and that by draining it and taking the herbal people that live there and replacing it with better people is something that whether they believed him not, they were

prepared to take a chance on it. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. ""washington journal" begins. quinones two is "dreamland" is here with us. yesterday on capitol hill, there was a hearing about fentanyl and the impact on his opioid academic. what is fentanyl and -- opioid epidemic. what is fentanyl? in 1960. was invented what was going on at the time is people were looking for an opiate that would have the same painkilling effect but was not tied to the opioid poppy.

syntheticup with a which is called fentanyl. they have since come up with others. it was a much more powerful opiate, and it was 100 times more powerful than morphine. therefore, the smallest amount was really dangerous, but also very potent. from a cynical fentanyl is not in a powder form because it is too difficult -- from a c pharmaceutical fentanyl is not in a powder form because it is too difficult to control. it is a good painkiller for very limited situations. what has happened with fentanyl on the streets is remarkable.

it goes back always. we awakened the enormous and profit-making motive of mexican drug traffickers when it came to hair one with our expansion of so prescribing in this country. most mexicanme traffickers did not really care to be involved with heroin. the market was small and the products were tapped out. it was viewed as a second-class drug. . lot of folks avoided it there was cocaine and meth and other drugs. as we began to massively prescribe these pills over it many, many years, particularly beginning five to seven years and we began to see more more people realizing in mexico, it is deepkers where

in mexico, realizing united states was a new market forming of opiate addicts and they wanted heroin. first it was heroin, usually in the form of black tire which looks like tootsie rolls. there was also brown powder products.d variety of it has to be made from the opium poppy. you have to wait for that to grow and the poppy is difficult to harvest. you have to do it by hand. that basically was very difficult. in time, underground chemists, the first case in 2006 in mexico , but it took a while before it became widespread, that how to make fentanyl underground in a environment.mistry that changed a bunch of things on the heroin market. it democratized the heroin

market or opiate. the countryroin in in our country before, normally definedoming from a region. now the chemicals come from china and mexico. the truth is, it is now sold on the dark web. it could be anywhere. it can be canada, nebraska, hungry. i don't think many people know all the places it is coming from. changelso done a lot to by the market on the streets making it easier for making a heroin dealer to kill and od people. you would think that would be a bad thing, but in the heroin world, whenever one dies or ods, all the other addicts you have as an advertisement, not as a warning, that that is really

strong dope. then they want it and go running for. it waspast, with heroin, on a profit motive to sell strong dope. you but the kilo and you cut it into two or three kilos and that is how you made your money and sold more dope. stuff you were selling was weaker and there was less chance that it would od people. with fentanyl, it is very cheap product to punch up the to strong levels and people od and die. this is the reason why we are problems.rmous a lot of times they don't know what the proper quantity is in their underground and they don't have a clue. it has made it easy for the dealer to punch up the dope, kill a few people, and make that the advertisement.

pretty soon, many addicts will tell you that whenever they see someone die or od, i go searching for that dope, believing that will be the next big bang. course,going to die, of that guy died, but not me. another thing that has done that is equipped -- equally diabolical, it has been laced into other drugs like marijuana and cocaine. a business move is an attempt to more widely addicts the african-american communities because african-americans have not been involved in this heroin issue in the last 20 years. that community, drug users prefer cocaine. you lace cocaine with fentanyl, and all of the sudden after a while, you have an opiate addict. half of for example,,

the deaths they had from opiates had heroin in it. it very dangerous. host: this is from the "washington times" editorial. which --sentinel fentanyl is estimated to be 35 times more potent than heroin, sometimes is mixed with heroin. so dangerous is the stuff that first responders have overdosed simply by coming in contact with it. guest: talking with chemists, touching it is a problem. in my conversation with chemists, inhaling is the problem. that is why they don't put fentanyl in powder. you can inhale it very easily. it is very dangerous to come in contact with in any form. first of all, you don't know what potency you are touching.

this makes what ought to be a fairly normal investigations into heroin, they are all the sudden fraught with new danger. you have to wear hazmat suits and i have also heard traffickers coating other packages of other drugs with fentanyl if the dogs lick it, the dogs died. have thisthat, you fentanyla separate drug which is not an and along, but it is an elephant painkiller and sedative. that is 100 times more often than fentanyl. before this, the only people who could possesses were veterinarians in zoos. the first death in ohio, the

corner had to go to the local zoos to get examples of the drug to be able to make the test to test on the people that they were on top autopsying. in 2016, a man on the news and talked with people and said they are seeing microscopic levels of fentanyl, but they are fatal levels. fast-forward another year, and they did a study and a found 150 people arrested for dui, 49 of those were walking around with tolerances to know that would've killed people year before. tolerance toeasing rhinoceros painkillers. that is now part of this thing. , sam when our guest

quinones, says that this is a small amount that can kill you, hearing that we covered on capitol hill that we are talking about grains of the sand being a difference. guest: it can be even smaller than that with the other fentanyl. host: 40,000 people were killed by fentanyl overdoses in 2016. let's get our viewers involved. impacted by opiates, call in at (202) 748-8000. medical professionals (202) 748-8001. all others (202) 748-8002. let's go to caroline in d.c. caller: go ahead. i am not exactly a medical professional. i have been listening to the story over and over for years about the illicit side of the opioid epidemics and all of the

events on society, it including getting hepatitis c and hiv and outbreaks and people losing limbs. is this a bad idea to put people where it is clean and regulating and people are not dying on the streets and somehow work with drug companies who have made money hand over fist in this opioid epidemics to get weks back into treatment, so remove the illicit side of things? explainingnd time how it works. guest: that is an interesting idea. these ofem is this, the latest stages of the epidemic we have described. we have not described the first

10 to 12 years which is from and it was only saw enormous numbers of people dying from pills. this has been the problem. country,as a accidental drug overdoses surpassed traffic fatalities as a leading cause of accidental death, that was done entirely pill overdoses. people had been switching to heroin for years, but it wasn't minor. the numbers were clear that most of the deaths back then were because of pills. to open that pandora's box again , i don't know. i think what it shows is the danger we faced as a culture in believing that one way for all

one way to there was cause -- prevent pain. there was a huge new supply created over 20 years. a big black market. i understand the impulse behind the caller's question and clearly the illegal market is a very crazy thing and very dangerous and fatal. it is also important to understand that we got into this because of excess use of pills, and people were dying in huge numbers. there are clear graphs that are fascinating to look at that show death and quantity of pills prescribed marching up from the mid-1990's. lots of people die of that as well.

you want answers, i'm not sure i got them. host: let's go to ted in new hampshire. caller: i have a question for the gentleman. day on special the other television that lot of fentanyl is coming into the country through the mail system, from china into this country. problemlooking for the coming up from mexico and that way, and it seems to me we are getting hit all the way around using our own system. ont: ted, that was a hearing capitol hill. we covered it. the u.s. postal service was there and they spoke about how much mail they do was on a daily basis and trying to identify suspicious packages with fentanyl in them. guest: it is very hard to identify them. it gets lost. fentanyl in a sugar packet in a common diner that you go to, if that were

fentanyl, that is a very large amount considering how potent it is and how much you can miss it. that is one way -- this is one we haveroblems that opened this pandora's box and do the consequences that no one could imagine back in the mid-1990's. one of them is that we are very vulnerable, particularly in the day of the internet and dark web, that is the part of the internet that is the sewer. you feel unclean when you look at it and they sell malware and .uns and they sell fentanyl there are numerous people -- $100fentanyl for 100 or $200 green. that is coming -- grain. host: the "washington times"

howrts that it sets out chinese manufacturers are you a -- using the u.s. postal service to transport it. it requires little more than a google search, a credit card, and a mailbox. this newspaper reported that investigators searched through google and found six merchants willing to sell fentanyl by dropping it in the mail. guest: exactly. extraordinarily i wanted because back in the 1800s, china was the country that had opioids imposed on it by great britain. that is why we had the opium war. china wanted to prevent that stuff from coming. what they wanted to

sell. china wasy, bequeathed the massive opium problem that was famous for the next 100 years or so. host: why china now? guest: because it is not regulated and not a lot of control. it is a booming -- in my assessment, a free-for-all wild west in terms of regulation. heroin and opiates make up the most. freeof the free market -- form of the free market. ability for of the a massive world market. all of that means we are seeing today. has antal service

enormous challenge and that has been posted on the postal service very all of these sudden, you have to be our drug watch as well as the mail. host: let's go to the next color. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my first call was in talking to you. --m in a next corner ex-coroner. i would assume from your discussion so far that using suboxone is not a good idea, exchanging one for the other. guest: i think medically assisted treatment is necessary and the conversation women having now is part of the reason why.

i think medically assisted treatment allows people to get way of life and normal routine, jobs, , insteadhips, family of when am i going to get my dope? is aevents cravings and it long discussion we could have on that. the point i wanted to make is that one of the most dangerous things in america to do today is to get out of drug rehabilitation treatment. and there is a lot of supply out there. if you have been involved in that world before, you know where to find it. to get out of treatment and not any protective shield that medically assisted treatment ,rovides, methadone suboxone that is almost signing a death

warrant. it is very dangerous to get out to saytment without that you are on your own. the difference is, when the vets came home from the amount and it heroin, 90% of them quit. one reason was they weren't in war-torn vietnam anymore, but they were far from supply. didn't -- some people caps on,but one reason -- kept but one reason they stopped was they were not near the massive supply. they were ted in the face with it. not hitace we go now -- in the face with it. every place we go now, in some markets fentanyl is everywhere and in some markets maybe not so much. not equipping attics and understanding that -- a

ddicts and understanding that is important. to takeied, and we have that into consideration. when you leave, it is a scary, dangerous thing to get back on the streets. medically assisted treatment can be helpful. host: let's hear from manny in massachusetts. what is your story? caller: good morning. about -- he isam on the cusp of what i am getting at about penalizing dock yours that.uff -- doctors and i was a drinker back in the 1970's. it to me a couple of detox is and 12 step meetings. it has been about 25 years since i drank.

i don't understand why fentanyl -- i agree that many doctors may over prescribed pain medication. i had rotator cuff surgery not too long ago and i was given a bunch of percocet every month. sick.ade me i needed something else besides that, but they kept giving it to me. that wasn't my drug of choice. i was never into drugs eerie i remember back in the -- drugs. i remember back in 1970's when they sprayed the pot plants and we used to joke about it. the agent orange they used in vietnam, they were trying to bring down the pot. fentanyl, and i have friends who are current users.

i have friends that are on heroin and friends that are on pills and some that are drunks. you are touching on the point where quitting smoking, you didn't die from quitting smoking p why are you tying -- the -- smoking. he was asking why people switch to fentanyl knowing it is so deadly. i think that gets into the state of mind that people who are addicted. quickly -- i believe you do not have rational, free will when you are addicted to these pills and drugs in general. it takes over, and that is why you find people living under the holesss and having gaping

in their lives where all they did was look for dope every day. it could be pills or heroin or whatever. the idea that you actually have some rational response does not happen, i believe, frequently until you have detoxed and gotten it out of your system for a few weeks. i believe the model of detoxing and drying out like for alcohol does not work for this too well. you need a longer erin: of time time away from this. host: let's hear from steve in oklahoma. caller: good morning, greta. i am a disabled truck driver and had a deck injury in 2003.

in 2003. injury of 2005, and it killed the medical pression -- medical profession where i live. after the big hospital chain pulled out, i had to go to the hospital emergency which gave me flexeril. got in my head a lot more than hydrocodone. hydrocodone wears off in about six hours. orxeril stayed in my head 10 12 hours. , theke a long story short new doctors moved into years ago i have similar diabetic symptoms and they said ok,

the doctor only come zero once in a while, it's mostly run by the nurse practitioners. that's the kind of doctors, the only thing i could get into. guest: i'm not sure what the question was, honestly. is -- it seems to me that this is commonly how people deal with -- how doctors deal with pain is massive dosing of pills and it's been going on like that for a long time. for some people, it's helpful and then it stops being helpful. other people believe it's helpful for the long haul and other people very quickly it becomes a problem. there is all manner of responses and the problem is there's not a whole lot of differentiating ahead of time. it's been a one-size-fits-all approach to pain management since basically the mid-1990's. host: you were on capitol hill

and testified, you were the sole witness. what was your message senators before we let you go? guest: there was several. one that we were seeing that they would do well to consider looking to local communities, because in a lot of local communities, you are finding counties, particularly, forming groups that are task or alliances of different people come all coming together with their perspective and expertise in energy, to this problem. it's a beautiful thing to watch. for many years, we've been working in this is where the problem. we have been working in silos, separate from each other. that seems to be spawning a response of the opposite saying maybe we need to start understanding that we work better -- in isolation, our problems are in solute, but working together. in county after county where i go.

i also told him i suspect this ata beautiful moment to look the country and perhaps think in terms of much larger -- the temple you may want to consider is the marshall plan after world war ii, where we rebuilt large sections of europe and help them rebuild we helped them and that stopped the communist expansion in the soviet union and did a lot of developed trading partners and alliances. --hink maybe a recovery plan a marshall plan for american recovery in the areas that have been hammered by globalization and free trade, a lot of areas in the midwest, in the central valley of california, the borderlands of texas, parts of new mexico and southern vermont and maine. to me, this topic is the only topic in america today that does radicaler from a

polarization into red and blue. andrings people together that's why i suggested to them they might want to consider this an opportunity. a beautiful opportunity they get into why they got into public service to begin with, which was to begin to construct -- reconstruct, in some areas, a community. and that over time, i believe that's where you get to the roots of all of this and also you get to developing approaches and maybe solutions that will transfer. it's not just the opioid problem, but the next problem and issues related to homelessness or mental health. mole wnot playing wacko ak a mole with these things. you have a wonderful opportunity to change things. "dreamland's: is

the true tale of america's heroin addiction." back, which earned globalization and talk about the president's speech of the world economic forum, his message to the world leaders and ceos that have gathered there and we talk with the peterson institute's adam posen. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> c-span's history series

landmark cases returns each month with a look at 12 new supreme court cases. each week from historians and ask for join us to discuss the andtitutional issues personal stories behind the significant supreme court decisions. beginning monday, february 26, live at 9:00 a.m. eastern and helping better understand each case, we have a companion guide written by veteran supreme court journalist tony mauro. landmark cases, volume two. to get your copy, go to c-span.org/landmark cases. >> the president of the united states. [applause] >> tuesday night, president donald trump gives his first state of the union address to congress and the nation. join c-span for preview of the evening starting at 8:00 eastern and then the state of the union speech live in 9:00 p.m. and following the speech, the democrat response. we will also hear your reaction and comments from members of congress.

president trump's state of the union address, tuesday night, live on c-span. was live with the free c-span radio app and available live or on-demand on your desktop, phone, or tablet at c-span.org. "washington journal," continues. host: joining us now is adam posen, prison of the fears and institute for international theomics to talk about president's speech to financiers, and ceos from around the world. guest: heads of state. host: all gathered in dollars, switzerland for the annual meeting. i would begin with what the president said an hour ago on trade. [video clip] president trump: we are looking to reform the international trading system so it roads broadly shared prosperity and rewards to those who play by the rules. we cannot have free and open trade if some countries exploit the system at the expense of others.

trade, but ite needs to be fair and it needs to be reciprocal. because in the end, unfair trade undermines us all. the united states will no longer turn a blind eye to unfair economic actresses, -- practices, including massive international property theft, and pervasive state led economic planning. host: adam posen. guest: i think it's really important to focus on what the president didn't say almost as much as what he did. he stuck to very strong talking points that he's used before about fair and reciprocal trade, and he talked about intellectual property theft, which most economists and analysts would biggest probably the concern, legitimately, for the u.s. in terms of the trading system. but he omitted mentioning china

specifically, he omitted omittedg the wto, he the word unilateral. the tone was very measured, and that for me, frankly is heartening. that said, it had to really strange ideas that he keeps repeating, one of this notion of reciprocal trade. reciprocal doesn't make sense. if reciprocal is about you treat others as others treat you, you might as well have rules, it's not about the u.s. turning a blind eye, it's about supporting the system of rules. and reciprocal is about we have have even trade with everybody, that doesn't make sense, economically. the whole point of trade is certain countries are good at something and certain countries are better at other things. coming tors is what's my consumer, not from abstract accounting. there's some crazy ideas in there and a lot of very measured calm things. we will worried, this wasn't that bad a speech. this is time magazine,

with the global elite can learn from donald trump. years thehat most late january get her the world's political, business and heavyweights is donated by an individual. they see globalization is a good thing because it's been very good for them. but they are highly educated, well, successful, and mobile. their world has been defined much more by opportunity then by threat. president made his pilgrimage to the alps, the president, buoyed by a robust economy and soaring stock went had to -- two options to bridge the divide. out to thereach skeptics and try to convince them that american foreign-policy under this president is not as bad as it sounds, is more limited thinking as -- then they realized. is that true? guest: is exaggerated.

i've been to domino's for -- davos four times. but what matters is the heads of state statements. three years ago, angela merkel talking about u.s. and europe coming together to build rules to constrain china. last year, president she of china talking about -- president aboutchina talking protectionism. the other stuff is like everywhere else in the world, rich people get together have a and we should worry about inequality, but we don't need to worry about davos. he wasn't as pro-globalization as you should be. to big things. it could have been really populist in a good sense, he could have said all of you are business leaders, all of you are rich people and you are the beneficiaries, but i representing the people who are angry and you have to do more for the people who are angry.

he didn't say a word of that. he also could have said here's q&a in the at the end of his speech, he talked about shared goals. he didn't bother to define what those shared goals should be. or how they were different from davos woman. and i can read into what he said, xi, modi fromkel, india, these people say these the countries i want my values -- these are the values that my country promotes. host: president trump is the first american president to go to this annual gathering since bill clinton. president obama, president obama, president george w. bush, george h.w. bush did not go to this gathering. adam posen, do you think it's a good thing for president to go? guest: caller: it's only --

guest: it's only worth going to be really have something to say. it's good the cabinet officials go, because you get to have meetings. you have a bunch of people in one place at one time who can talk frankly. but you only want the president opening his or her mouth to make statements when they really have something to say. i cited a couple examples of other heads of government on that. this was ok, this was mostly sounded like the governor of a smallor a mayor, or a country that is suddenly market sizing. he sounded like a cheerleader. he described himself as a think i've been a cheerleader for our country, which you have to be. at sign, but you don't need the president of the united states to do that. host: i invite viewers to call in with questions, democrats, call (202) 748-8000. republicans, call (202) 748-8001 , independents, call (202) 748-8002.

outside the united states, call in at (202) 748-8003. what you think the president's mark will be on this world stage of the world economic forum and also this discussion about globalization and whether we should be nationalist. i would hear from our viewers on that. let me go back to time magazine. they write the truth is that the distance between president trump and the globalist is too great. instead, both sides need to be more realistic. men andno's -- davos attention to pay the men and women around the world who fear globalization. trump is wrong to paint trade and immigration as the culprit. the millions of jobs will and what new jobs these advances create require new skills and the training and education to support them.

davos officials need to support better public assistance and education training. i don't like the term globalist or populist, they are both overly simpleminded and the idea is that what makes the system work is that there are some rules so countries don't bully each other and that we ,iew it as one family gets rich it's to everyone's benefit. it is true that there are people who are angry and blame other countries getting rich for their own problems, but also one of the problems in the u.s. are almost entirely due to our own political systems. they are due to taxes that go down rather than up on rich people and underinvestment and we are talking whatever structure of the state of the union and around that we haven't invested in that. you and him credit put in the money for adjustments and education, probably because

congress would not let them. these are the failures. when you look at western europe and japan and australia are these are countries that have invested a lot more that are doing much better. not president trump himself, but some of the people he invokes is the issue. if you look at western europe and australia and japan, there are people who are doing fine economically who are venting racist, nativist, normally white christian males. right to talks about people being scared of modernity. not about individuals and making anything defined by those kinds of identities. that,ple are angry about then they should be opposed. in houston, missouri, justin. you're on the air. my name is justin and i'm calling from houston, missouri.

trump -- as a supporter of mr. trump, i am proud to be one of the people who voted for mr. trump. i'm on disability, that doesn't bother me. , for a for mr. trump true person for the united states. everything you said he was going , before hee trail got elected and everything, everything he's done, he has done pretty much everything he said he was going to do. he's not just for the rich, he's for everybody. i think it's fair to say that he's done a lot more than people thought. if you go back and look at the record, particularly on the

regularization -- deregulation which goes cuts beyond what the rules should allow, he has done what he said he was going to do. the problem is that not all of it is for the worker or for american interests. maybe because he believes it is, i'm not into people's motivation. i'm not a psychologist. many of the things he is doing on immigration and deregulation particularly in the environmental sector and possibly the financial sector and the tax code, which converts is responsible for along with the president, these are things that have some good aspect like taking away bad regulations and making it harder for companies to shift profits abroad, but have some really bad things going on in terms of ruining the environment for future generations, showing up with things like badwater in flint and places around the country, not looking at our citizens in puerto rico and redistributing income to the rich. there are going to be benefits

for working people in the u.s., in part of because the way to tax code is changing and mostly because as president trump to describe several we're having a great expansion, not entirely due to him, mostly due to things that already happened. but all politicians take credit for what happens when they are in office eerie is a lot of stuff that's real and you are getting what you voted for, but some of the things you voted for are going to backfire. in stevensville, maryland, independent. caller: i agree with what you just said about the president. trump, i do not like him. all he is doing is making himself richer, and his group. whatever's happening with the economy as a result of obama. i'm not a democrat or republican, but what he is doing is not good for the world.

he is writing the environment and you doesn't care about anybody else but himself and his group of people. host: he says president obama deserves some credit for this economic boom we are seeing. guest: he certainly does in two senses. we know that any time something big happens in the economy, having to do with unemployment, interest rates, the stock market, it's generally do to things the previous government did with the government did two years ago, the federal reserve did two years ago. first -- trump is the is not the first or only president to take credit for what is due to his predecessor, but his recovery just continuation of the recovery that started in obama's second term. andsecond way which obama chair yellen in the federal reserve deserve credit as they helped get us out of the hole. there are things that are going on the stock market that are almost certainly reaction to the tax code changes and deregulation, it makes a lot of

businesses more profitable and more attractive. some of that has environmental costs. there's no question that a lot of environmental and energy deregulation is going to be good for growth in the short term as these businesses are going to get opportunity and stuff becomes cheaper. but it has cost to the public and cost to health. there areas were deregulation might be justified, that was going to come back and bite us. host: gary in springfield, ohio. question or comment? caller: i have a comment and it could be a question, i guess. my comment is what i'm hearing on this television. all thising that credit, mr. pozen is putting on obama. recoverand i will never from what obama's policies did to us.

democrat, obama helped me with that problem. that obamasaying gets the credit for this. obama could never have done this. this is not something that was in his dna. host: i thought you were done. we will take the point. guest: i can't speak to what that gentleman and his family went through. it's difficult to identify what specifically president would have -- president obama would have done to that person. but the fact is i'm not trying to create credit from from two obama cap -- from trump to obama , i'm saying in reality it takes a couple of years to affect overall economic and unemployment. the was economy is big. if we get continued growth in the next two years, that's due to the policy.

it's due to deregulation for good and for bad, specific industries and specific places are going to do much better in the next couple of years and it will be clearly attributable to the president's policy. credit trying to give for president obama, i'm saying you have to be realistic about what actually happens. mentionsident trump apple bringing money back. the exit in craig -- take credit for something he really did with congress, which was make it harder for u.s. companies to stash profits abroad. and play counting games. so now there is perhaps not perfect, but an incentive for these companies to so-called bring them home. that's really just a paper transaction that says they are no longer in ireland, they are in the u.s. and we have to pay taxes. like the famous example of the carrier plant the president trump said during the campaign we're going to bring back the jobs and all the carrier plant is closing. same thing is true with apples investments.

-- apple's investment. secure answer but it's different than it would have been anyways. it may be slightly larger and biased towards production jobs in the u.s., which is possibly good, maybe not. but again, it's not about obama versus trump, democrat versus republican, developing realistic that even today, the was economy is mostly about decentralized business and individual decisions, when the government does something, it takes a while to work through and you can't say today's unemployment rate is due mostly or even solely to president trump. it's not true. host: let's go to barbie in newark, new jersey. independent. caller: i think trump is doing a good job, but he needs to consider, strength money and under the table money -- how much drug money and how much under the table money is going unreported in the dark economy. there's cash deals under

$9999 being brought to stockbrokers, ignoring the fact that this might be corrupt money laundering and all over the world this is happening. until we become aware of all the corruption, that's why no country is able to get a lot of tax, because a middle-class, the poor or so called for, but a lot of them are doing drugs and making drug money and under the table. host: let's get in beverly as well in louisiana, democrat. caller: i'm from texas, and i am of the -- a democrat. education is a key to a lot of things. if the schools teach more about government and everything, people would know more about

what was going on in government. c-span is the best place to find out about things. his education was brought in, guarantee there would be more younger people at the polls, because they knew that it would gettinghelpful for them ready for school and everything. host: beverly's thoughts and taxes. now i go back to the president's remarks earlier today and show viewers what he had to say on immigration. it sounds like he clarified his immigration proposal. [video clip] trump: we are securing our immigration system is a matter of both national and economic security. america is a cutting-edge economy. but our immigration system is stuck in the past. we must replace our current system of extended family chain migration with a merit-based system of admissions that selects new arrivals based on

their ability to contribute to our economy. to support themselves financially, and to strengthen our country. in rebuilding america, we are also fully committed to developing our workforce. we are lifting people from dependence to independence, because we know the single best antipoverty program is a very simple and very beautiful paycheck. adam posen, his position on immigration and the impact on the economy. guest: we try to deal in facts. the fact is the vast majority of immigrants in the u.s. are net in pairs to the system. they not only support themselves and they pay more in taxes and create more jobs and spend more money than they take out. this is true for illegal migrants and illegal migrants or putcumented, who often stuff into the system and provide labor and don't take

anything out because they are scared or they are constrained. as president trump is saying, for the u.s. strategy going forward should be to attract migrants who are contribute to society, he's absolutely right. but, it has to be in the context get now, evens we the so-called family or chain migrants to do that. secondly, he's talking about having some preference for advanced skills are people like that and again, that makes perfect sense. one of the great things about the u.s. for 100 50 plus years is that you attract the best and brightest from around the world. anecdotes, which are true, about so many tech companies and innovations come out of migrants. this is the way we should be thinking, but then we have to not make this an environment of fear. so it's notmake it ice agents hassling young people for their papers on the streets,

which is not entirely legal. you have to make it so it's not individual tech companies pleading their case to court politicians, which is antimarket to begin with saying that spring and skilled people. recognize that immigration is a strength and go with what the president said, and bring in all the good people we can. host: vincent is watching in texas, independent. caller: good morning. thank you for representing the people. i just want to ask a question, why is it that we are not investing more in schools, as far as education, that's my biggest question. knowledge ofthat a economics portion of it, but coming from a lack of education as far as from texas, why is it that we are not investing more and education so that everybody can understand the economics and how important it is as far as to make surenesses

that everybody has an understanding of this so they can regress in life and in economics. guest: absolutely. there was a lady from also from texas, who also raise the issue of education. this is critical. and this is one of the places where the davos people are legitimately being attacked for criticisms for it every year they would need new skills, we did this, we need that and they go back to their countries and with the exception of a couple of rare countries, nobody does anything. nobody spends the money. u.s., and other education expert but i understand public investment in revenues and what. things we have to recognize his first, we have a system in the u.s. is incredibly fragmented. it is state and local districts that determine most of school policies and spending it, federal education is not that powerful or big. you have to do something to make a more equal.

i was fortunate. my parents room and poverty by was fortunate to grow up in a very nice suburb of austin that had fabulous public schools. part of my life is because i got to do that. my parents didn't. so i value this. but it was because this town wasn't super rich, but it had a much better taxpayers than the next town over or inner-city boston. we have to do more to get that equal. the second thing that is really important was we know the one of the biggest successes in the u.s. throughout the last decade has been not just fancy colleges and universities, which are wonderful for innovation and by the community colleges and less well-known universities and vocational training that isn't for product scams would israel vocational training, we under invest in that and cut back on that during the financial crisis. that's enormously important to read training and building a flexible workforce in the should be a huge push for that, not tax

rates for fancy colleges. real investment in community colleges and going back to something you read out earlier, this will require more taxes. but it is worth it. it's an investment. give more back. int: let's hear from ed washington state. a democrat. caller: yeah. president andor invested in a resort and russian dirty money loaned me $1 billion, interest profit,d gave me 30% and i stayed at the resort every weekend, costing the government and unbelievable amount of money and other people around the world pay 10 times more money to stay at my resort, would they allow that? is that normal? guest: that is not my area of

expertise, but the way you describe it is something we seem to be seeing in real life and it certainly seems like corruption. place in central asia or latin america and everybody had to book a room at the president's daughters hotel just to get a meeting, that would be seen as corruption and bribery. want toiple, you don't be allowing that and it's kind of shocking. you talk about money laundering which again, where of the callers before the immigration clip mentioned. you don't want to talk about it being any individual, though the individuals have to be held accountable. talk about it as we need enforcement. we need to let the fbi do its job and give enough resources to the irs to do its job and stop that. host: steve is a republican in pennsylvania. caller: yes. thank you for taking my call. amount now? -- am i on now?

host: yes. caller: i think you are a beltway politician echoing that you think that trump should spoonfeed the world with solutions. holes in hiske ideas. i'm just commenting what you were saying about trump. host: adam posen is not a politician, but you are in the beltway. guest: i am in the beltway, i am an independent, and i've never run for office. the stock of the substance of what the gentleman raised. i think the issue is spoon feeding or rather what you do for and with other countries. it a question. if you take president trump's speech at its word and put in the context of prior statements made by him during the campaign of the year in office, he is basically saying countries should look after their own

knitting at home in the u.s. is not going to get involved in any grant projects. the u.s. is not going to transfer much in the way of money or anything to others. and we stand up for ourselves. and if you treat us badly, we will strike back. that to me is a missed opportunity and dangerous. and again, this is legitimate debate. there's a lot of things we can do like managing refugee migration and limiting climate change and enforcing rules of intellectual property rights and -- you can only do if you do it together. like preventing tax evasion and tax havens. always things require some cooperations, not just each country looks after itself. the u.s.so much does have to stand up for itself, which is the manner in which you do it. you do it as a single vigilante and beating up countries one by one, which might work in some movies and some contacts, but it

doesn't work versus doing deals reader to make everybody agree to the same behavior at once and you try to make it so that those that don't behave are excluded. to doo me is a better way it. that's the things that would make with where the president seems to be. host: i want to go back to the speech about regulation. this is one area where he has been applauded by ceos and companies. let's do what he had to say. [video clip] president trump: now is the perfect time to bring your business, your jobs, and your investments to the united states. becauseespecially true we have undertaken the most extensive regulatory reduction ever conceived. regulation is stealth taxation. the u.s., like many other countries, unelected bureaucrats -- believe me, we have them all over the place and they have imposed crushing and antibusiness and anti-worker

regulations on our citizens. with no vote, no legislative debate, and no real accountability. in america, those days are over. i pledged to eliminate 21 twoain regulations -- regulations for everyone knew religion. instead of 2-for-1, we've cut 22 burdensome regulations for every one new rule. adam posen, the impact of that on the economy. is good ingulation the act that you're getting that of junk, but if you're a smart investor or smart businessperson, that everything you do is equally important. or 22 tonumbers of two one in terms of regulatory cuts but what matters is the big regulation. if you have regulations that no waynding arbitration

to appeal for consumers or workers, you may be enormously empowering businesses, increasing profits and really hurt a lot of people. if you have a regulation on the financial markets that some might overdo it, so small banks in this country have compliance costs with regulations that are by theous and passed leadership that those should be cut i agree. if you don't have enough capital required banks, then you get the kind of crises and gambles and playing with other people's money if they don't have enough at stake as we saw during the crisis. it matters less about the quantity of regulation as which regulations. and that the president self said after he made that very clear statement on regulation, immediately following the speech on the record he said we're going to have regulation, nothing wrong with rules and regulation, you need them. ors not about quantity badmouthing bureaucrats, though there are some tinpot dictator bureaucrats are like the power.

-- like the power. which entered in europe. some of the things that trump and administration has done haven't been constructive. most of the things they have done certainly bump up short-term growth. it doesn't mean they are all smart for the long-term. host: let's hear from ryan in pennsylvania. independent. posen. mr. host: adam posen. caller: you were talking about the flood water crisis as if it was something that trump had anything to do with. guest: you're absolutely right, he goes back under obama and everywhere. the other problem, and the biggest thing -- i followed all hearings i could find on epa -- i can't remember the exact date, but i

think they haven't updated the lead standard in something like 13 years. time, they put in thousands of other regulations but they couldn't get around to rewriting a serious one. that's the problem, when you get a bureaucracy going, it's going to take us 20 years to redo the lead standards. host: let's take that point. guest: if i left the impression i was blaming the flow watercress some president trump's of administration, you are absolutely right to correct me. that was an obama administration and that preexistent, i was merely using it try to say there are high-stakes when we get regulation wrong with you think is what you were saying with the epa. the more important point which you raise, which is really important is that anytime you are dealing with regulation, to apply it and implemented, there's a lot of room for discretion and for choice by the regulars. that is inherent. you can't make a rule that works without leaving some room for implementation.

as presidential of administration's change, the spirit and the application and the energy of how you apply the regulations changes. there is no question that perhaps out of congress or lack of priority from the obama administration, you did not see the epa doing on clean water and some other things the way they should have. but clearly, in addition to the deregulation effort that president trump described his team was doing, they also are setting a spirit of what they would consider less intrusive, less arbitrary implementation. in some areas, that may be justified. you don't want government just haphazardly messing with business. but there are a lot of areas, environmental health and quality , labor inspection regulations and financial supervision, where no matter what the letter of the law is, you wanted interpreted in a way that actually forces the regulators to do the right thing. adam posen, president of

the peterson institute for international economics, we appreciate your time in the conversation this morning. we open upe back, the phone lines and you can continue talking about globalization, the president's speech and thomas, switzerland -- in jobless -- davos, switzerland. your slightly immigration proposal coming out of the white house. a lot on the table this morning. the phone lines are on your screen, start dialing in now. we will be right back. >> sunday night on "after words," public and national committee spokesperson kayleigh mcinerney on her book the new american revolution, the making of populist movement. she's interviewed by matt lewis. >> conservatives say to me why you use this word, and populist and liberals expressed aversion to that word. but this book is about the

people i really wanted to honestly profile the people. on the left and on the right. most of the voters i profiled were trump voters, but i did profile some who were not. to me, it was capturing the sentiment that drove an electorate to deliver one of the most astonishing electoral defeats we've seen certainly in my lifetime and in modern history. it's a profile of the american people on issues from terrorism to poisoned water in flint, michigan. on c-spanfterwards twos book tv. >> c-span's history serious landmark cases returns each month with a look at 12 new supreme court cases. each week, historians and x-rays join us to discuss the constitutional issues and personal stories behind the significant supreme court decisions. beginning monday, february 26, live and on eastern and lb

better understand each case, we have a companion guide written by tony mauro. when marquesas, volume two. the costs a dollars out of five cents plus shipping and handling. for your coffee, go to -- for your copy, go to c-span.org/ landmark cases. >> "washington journal," continues. host: we're back and open phones. what is on your mind? what do you are still washington about that? richard, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. , it fellow who was just on think he's totally wrong on the immigration. i'm in the construction and property management business and there are a lot of illegal immigrants that are doing roofing, construction, and all kinds. there are people who have been citizens for the united states

since they were born and they can't get into these jobs, because of illegal immigration. but on the environment, i think he's all wrong, there are so many regulations -- trump didn't get rid of all of the state and local regulations on the environment and on getting our jobs back from china, he put a couple of tariffs on solar panels and things like that, which is good. if the former presidents had any guts, they would've done the same thing. i think that adam posen guy was all wet. adam posen with the peterson institute and richard referring to the order that president trump signed before he left for davos, switzerland on washingtons through the president is getting ready to depart. most,

switzerland to make his way back to washington, d.c. and you can and the planepter waiting for him. he will be coming out and then making his way back to washington, after he's giving a speech at the world economic forum, the annual gathering of ceos and world leaders and others. let's watch and see here is the president makes his way to air force one.

host: president trump boarding air force one, leaving for davos , switzerland after addressing ceos and heads of state for the annual meeting. if you missed his speech, you can go to c-span.org and find it there and watch it in its entirety. he made comments about trade, regulation, security, immigration and talked about fake news as well. you can comment on what you heard from the president of the president's economic policy, rather issues as well. in gettysburg,

ohio, a democrat. good morning. caller: i'm in kirksville, ohio. earlier and ient hear them all the time, when people call in and they claim that trump is doing every thing he said he would do on the campaign trail. i watched every one of his rallies, it was hard sometimes, but i forced myself to watch both sides, because i'm an independent. on the campaign trail, he claimed he wasn't going to have time to go play golf at all. he plays golf every weekend and its cost nearly $100 million in his first year. he claimed he was going to be the best friend to transgender's ever had an out is going to try to block them from the military. cuts were that tax going to hurt him and not help him and that was a lie. he claimed that mexico is whether favorable and now he's demanding $28 billion from americans.

was goingtell us he to have secret meetings with russians in the white house. he didn't tell us on the campaign trail he was going to take away wildlife detections for animals, to allow people to shoot bears in dens sleeping. and rollback regulation performed raise animals. host: we are journalist. let's go to pop low -- for pablo. caller: the first thing is, i'm a felon forced by the courts after six years for a car accident. now, the problem is the reason they want to get rid of the migrant latinos is so they can put all of these black men that they have stockpiled in american jails back in the fields. host: andre in miami, independent.

caller: good morning. very quickly, i would like to folks, pastthe fine and present, for the terrific work they do. best and thank you and have a great day. host: in ohio, robert county democrat. caller: hello. host: good morning. what's on your mind? caller: let's talk about immigration. host: ok. we are listening, robert. i have a grandson who came here from honduras when he was 10 years old. coming is a quality , hevidual -- i raised him is a quality individual. i like to see so-called politicians get their heads out of the sand and get something accomplished. it seems to me like they are bucking their heads against a stone wall i don't understand

what the problem is in washington. i have some relatives who work there, one is a lobbyist and my daughter works for the government -- she is associated with health insurance, for some company. theseind of ironic that politicians can't seem to -- it's like two kids fighting over a train in the living room. host: do you think they should agree on what the white house has proposed? caller: i'm not a big fan of the wall, they dig tunnels all over the place. i think more border patrol might be more effective than trying to build a wall. robert talking about the plan the game out of the white house, the president talked about on wednesday, the white house and drafted a proposal that they are offering the new york times frames as take it or leave it from the white house and the washington times said trump would increase of population of undocumented youth they get to come here, with a 10

to 12 your path to citizenship for proximally one point 8 million current and dock eligible -- daca eligible immigrants. limits chain migration to include spouses and minor children only an it limits the visa lottery system. matthew in satellite beach, california, and independent. to reflect oned the dysfunction of washington. we are always told this is the most divisive time, but i'm currently reading her kill democracy in america, it is somewhat refreshing and encouraging that perhaps the grand compromising from 50 years ago was more the exception than the rule, that even in the early 1800s, the double-edged sword of democracy is reflected in his descriptions of how unstable the government can be and that it will drastically swing from one opposition to the other, but overall in the long term, may

achieve the greatest benefit. i think with technology we are all brought into a digital town square where we are forced to confront each other again, where 50 years ago, there was the right balance of keeping everybody apart and that's when things could be discussed in a calm manner. now we are forced back together again, confronting our strong passions. that wend, recognizing exercise our individual rights to fight for our beliefs and wherever you stand on an issue, recognize that the other american across from you is just as passionate, but in the end, you can maybe work together. host: matthews thoughts. ralph in oklahoma, democrat. caller: i want to correct the flint thing. present obama had nothing to do with flint, michigan. that was a republican run state and i get tired of people blaming obama for flint. and i hate donald trump. thank you. host: we go martinsburg, west

virginia. you're on the air. i want to say when president obama was president, think he divided this country real bad. man, but hea black and he like the soldiers and [indiscernible] host: going to leave it there. it's difficult understanding you this morning. the new york times had a story ordered president

mueller's firing, but was refused by white house counsel. he said he would quit rather than following the order. this is back in june. the president then backed off. the three reasons why the president said he had the right to fire robert mueller as special counsel, says first he claimed it as few years ago over fees at from golf course in sterling, virginia and prompted mr. mueller, it to resign his mentorship. the trump said he could not be impartial because he most recently worked for a law form the representative son-in-law, and the president said mr. mueller had been interviewed to return as fbi director the day before he was appointed special counsel in may. debbie in new york, democrat. because i'mcalling tired of them blaming immigrants. immigrants to not do the hiring. corporations do the hiring. cut with thea tax corporations, and what did they do? they put in automated checkouts. it's not the immigration -- the

immigrants fault. you showt comment is the type of person you are or country you are by how you treat your least able. host: debbie's thoughts in new york. a couple other headlines on the political front. keiths from politico ellison from minnesota is exploring a bid for the attorney general spot in his state. and then also this morning from utah policy.com, sources say former presidential candidate and massachusetts governor mitt romney is expected to announce a seate bid for the utah being held right now by orrin hatch, who will gather signatures to get on the 2018 ballot and he will make that announcement that could come next week. larry in maine, independent. caller: i just want to say you

are a saint for doing the job that you do. host: what are your thoughts on public policy this morning or politics? we go on to richard in carlsbad, new mexico. independent. you are on the air. nope, i have to push the right button. richard, good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to say you are doing a great job and i live in the oil patch in southeast new mexico. but these immigrants, a lot of them are hard-working and a do great for the economy. by notice the last three or four years around tax time, more than half of them do not file taxes. i found out because they are using somebody else's social security number. how we handle that? they've been here for 10 or 15 years. do we overlook that or what?

i of a federal offense of you don't file your taxes. and when it comes to the politicians in washington, have an independent for the simple fact that i vote for who i think is going to do best for america. fora political party and decades, politicians in washington, it's all about the party. those of you who are following the immigration debate may be interested in the story and politico. florida senator marco rubio reject bipartisan immigration gang, the florida republican is steering clear of bipartisan senate talks to protect dreamers and pushing a more conservative approach, you might remember that mr. rubio was part of the gang of eight that come up with a water immigration reform package during the obama administration. immigrationader package during the obama demonstration. now they are gathering in

senator collins office and senator grams office trying to come up with some's resolution to go forward. proposal house put a pens and paper yesterday in the new york times said it is taken or leave it. but they would get a pathway to citizenship for the daca participants and even more populations -- a larger population of them in exchange for $25 billion for the wall. more details in the papers this morning and a note about next week. the president delivers his first state of the union address, and our coverage will begin at 8:00 p.m. eastern time, it was announced that representative joe kennedy will be delivering the democratic response to trumps state of the union. lateennedy, nephew of the president and the great nephew of former president john f. kennedy, 37 years old on the rising star the hills as an democratic party. tuesday, 8:00 p.m. eastern for state of the union here on

c-span, c-span.org, with a free c-span radio app. kansas, let's go to you. yes, i do understand about the daca kids, that they weren't brought here. it was their parents fault. were not brought here, it was their parents fault. i also have grandkids who are trying to get jobs in the summer during they range from 14 to 16 years old and they cannot get a job. because they are hiring the illegals. i would like somebody to explain that to me good -- explain that to me. host: what kind of jobs are your grandkids wanting to get? caller: