the impact of drug free school zones in drug sentencing cases. as always, we will take your calls and youconversation on fad twitter as well. "washington journal" is next. ♪ good morning on a saturday, january 27, 2018. the headlines on today's "washington journal," members of congress requesting a new rule requiring athletic organizations abuseform sexual allegations. this comes after larry nassar serially abused more than 150 , victims of the usa gymnastics organization and at michigan state university. all of the usa gymnastics board s are resigning.

today, we are asking you -- is there a role for congress in the gymnastics of use scandal? in the easternes or central times on, you can call (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific regions, you can call (202) 748-8001. and if you or a family member or an amateur or collegiate athlete, there is a special line for you, (202) 748-8002. you can also reach us on social media come on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. at theake a look headline from you today about those efforts in congress. imposes is going to regulation that requires new requirements on amateur sports organizations, something that would coincide with increased public pressure to address a scandal within the olympic community.

enduredese women have too much, which is why we must do more to protect our amateur athletes so that this never happens again. joining us on the phone today is the author of that story, niel.sl'

good morning. about what congress is doing in the wake of the sexual abuse scandal. guest: sure. this is one of the situations where the national attention has been pulled from the horrifying situation, which has got to the attention from congress. in addition to the legislation that should be moving to the house monday night come up we have heard calls and plans for a bipartisan investigation in the house, the energy and commerce committee. we are expecting investigations in the senate because there is a commerce subcommittee in the senate that has already sent a bunch of letters around, or at least sent a letter to the u.s. olympic committee with a bunch of questions. wherever this goes i think next is beyond sort of just usa and other

organizations that are affiliated under the usa olympic umbrella. the ncaa, theith collegiate athletic association, because obviously the involvement with michigan state here, and what we keep hearing and what we heard more of friday night, means that the ncaa, probably the next direction that congress would want to go. host: talk about the authority that congress has. what does that have to address, both usa gymnastics organization and the olympics, as well as politics who use federal funding? part: right, so the second of that, whether your michigan state or in the other school, congress is very direct, and members have already been very they are going to use their authority to

investigate this. if you are a school like michigan state, you get a lot of federal money, whether it is student loan money or grant money for students. funding that colleges like michigan state are dependent upon, i would imagine a school like michigan state, there is a whole and of agriculture money that goes that way as well, and so that is a piece, if you are a college, you should be watching because you need the federal money. the other piece, in terms of the organizations like usa gymnastics and similar sports, that authority is derived from something called the stevens act, obviously named for the late former senator from alaska, which basically granted the

authority of the u.s. olympic committee to be the one to choose to recognize the authority of the olympic authority to be want to choose who goes to the olympics, rather than having somewhere to situation where there might be doing bodies. a congressionally recognized organization, and in theory, if usa gymnastics or some other organization under the umbrella was not behaving or operating the way congress wanted, congress could designate someone else to be in charge of usa gymnastics, because they are creating a different entity to that. host: what sort of solutions are members of congress proposing? is it more setting up rules in place to prevent this from happening again and increase disclosure of abuse allegations? or is it something more punitive

against schools or organizations that allow this to happen? guest: so far, what we have mainly heard is about the establishment of new reporting requirements, saying basically when there are abuse allegations, you actually have thesel, whether it is police, the local police or some sort of federal authority, that these allegations should not be pushed under the rug. in this particular case, congress wants to mandate that they not be swept under the rug. the other part of this that i don't think we have heard so much about yet -- obviously, there currently are requests for information from michigan state, and i am sure there may be other schools that have received similar letters -- the real for, if youre is

are an organization like the ncaa, or you are another sports organization, one of the things you are always afraid of is that congress will call into question whether you should really be a tax-exempt entity, and that is something that usually gets organizations, if you are a college, you do not want congress going around questioning whether or not you are in fact a nonprofit. lesniewski, the senior senate staff writer at roll call, thanks for joining us today. guest: thank you. host: we are asking you if you think congress has a role in this gymnastics scandal. mike is calling from florida. good morning. caller: hi. what is your first and last name? host: my name is kimberly atkins. what do you think about the congress angle?

do you think congress should act? caller: kimberly asskins. host: all right, we're going to move on to douglas from maryland. what do you think congress ought to do about the gymnastics abuse scandal? caller: i think they ought to tend to their own kitchens. millions of dollars paid to people over the last decade, and these people required to sign a nondisclosure agreements of they could not say what happened. senator franklin and congressman -- i forget who it was, but several of them have resigned. what they are doing is scaring the public away from their own house kitchens to something else , hoping we will forget about that, but we should not. they should be cleaning their own house first. host: do you think there is a in other scandals as well, or do you think they cannot do anything until something daffodils are pass in

congress? caller: i am sorry to say this, but i think we are a little bit dysfunctional on their end, in congress, on almost any issue right now. host: all right. the "new york times" has the latest on the follow from the abuse scandal. usa gymnastics confirmed friday night at all the remaining members of its board of delayeds would resign, fallout from the widespread " -- l abuse scandal

is calling in from chestertown. could we are you talk to douglas? i am sorry about that. we are talking to kevin from blackwood, new jersey. what are your thoughts, kevin? caller: one, i agree with the previous caller about congress and how this is a very universal bank, and while all of these sexual abuse cases are coming out, any legislation is great to make it, you know, less likely. i think now is the time to start legislation nationally in every aspect, every field, you know, because it has been such a hit topic and hidden area that occurs, you know, a lot more than people think and in every

single field. so every type of legislation for the olympics and all of that i think should be involved, you know, including congress. but we should start, you know, initiating national laws in every field. host: kevin, what do you think about the response so far about membersol's athletic gymnastics?n, usa do you think the schools are doing enough themselves, or are they moving too slowly, and that is why congressional action is needed? caller: it is moving too slowly, breakou know, you have to a few people being dismissed, you know, it is the culture, as well as -- one of the things that can help us having stronger laws and legislation. thehat helps changing

culture and hiding sexual abuse, you know, people with power and -- but itcially, to is also helping at all levels. a look at whate gymnast aly raisman said in calling for an independent investigation into usa gymnastics, the olympics committee, as well as michigan state university. [video clip] reporter: do you think in your heart that justice was served yesterday? aly: no. it is not something where you instantly feel better. we need to hold these organizations accountable. usa gymnastics, united states olympic committee, msu, they need an independent investigation. this is bigger than larry nassar. we need to get to the bottom of how this disaster happened. if we cannot figure out how it did, we cannot be confident that it will not happen again. host: we are talking to you, getting your thoughts, do you think there is a role in congress for the gymnastics

abuse scandal? if you're in the eastern or central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountains or pacificins or region, (202) 748-8002. or if you are an athlete, (202) 748-8002. the the "washington post," committee will be holding hearings about the sexual abuse scandal. friday, a plan to hold a hearing any sexual abuse scandal rocking the u.s. national gymnastic team as well as reports of abuse in the national swimming and taekwondo programs.

host: demanded that the rest of the board resigned, and as we reported, they have agreed to do that. robert calling for pennsylvania. robert, what role do you think congress should play in this, if any? caller: well, i do not want to talk about sports, i just want to give my opinion on something. you can. of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. thing i want to say, maybe two, there is a wise old owl that is up in the tree, and your head is a dome. host: all right, we're going to

caller from florida. do you think congress should get involved? caller: absolutely. nobody, i think you mentioned the penn state issue with joe paterno and that pervert jerry sandusky. i actually think that congress should get involved and hold these people on these boards personally liable so that they cannot weasel out of any responsibility. some of them get paid, even the ones that don't get paid, there is some prestige. of craft a certain type individual that thrives off of the importance of, well, i am a board member -- big deal.

then when push comes to shove, the oversight, they wash their hands, they do absolutely nothing, and if you hold them that they canble be prosecuted, they can be sued, i think that would go a long ways to protect not only young women but also, in the jerry sandusky case, young boys. host: ok. let's take a look at former olin vick gymnast -- olympic gymnast, , and how usa gymnastics handle her case. [video clip] organization an that is rotting. they have a policy of not reporting sexual predators. at the time i was being abused,

up until i can forward and some corrections were revealed, they file systematically sexual reports in a file cabinet. we have a policy that is not reporting sexual abuse, you have a perfect dynamic for a predator to flourish. host: we are talking to you, getting your thoughts -- is there a role for congress in the sexual abuse scandal? (202) 748-8000 if you're in the eastern or central time zones. if you are in the mountains or pacific zones, (202) 748-8001.if you or a family member is a college or amateur athlete, you can call (202) 748-8002. the "new york times" reports today about the latest resignation from michigan state university in the wake of the scandal. there was more reprimand on friday from the fallout of lawrence g nasser, who was

accused of cereal abusing more than 150 young women while he was a doctor at michigan state university and for the national women's gymnastics team. host: this was not an easy decision for my family, and you should not jump to any conclusions, mr. hollis said in a statement in which he also declared "i am not running from anything." host: robert is calling in from california. what you think the role is for congress here, robert? caller: one of my favorite things about this country and

being a citizen is when they get hauled in front of congressional hearings, getting called on the carpet or whatever. i find that entertaining, and i also find it enlightening. it is an experience going back and allmoking ceo's that other sort of stuff. it is important to all these people up there -- to haul these people up there. i am sure they fear it, trust me. host: who would you like to see go before congress to explain this? istwe will go on to chase who calling in from germantown, maryland. good morning, chase. caller: thank you, c-span, for taking my call. i am ok with congress answering the sexual abuse issues, however, i do view it as an aspect of putting on a band-aid

over a gaping wound. legislation does not necessarily change the cultural issues that exist run sexual assaults, abuse, etc. and require secondary, tertiary changes of various elements to include educating people on avenuesbuse, creating for sexual abuse, for them to be able to report it to people. the earlier caller said that there needs to be liability for people, the higher ups. there are laws for that, based on the will employment -- the equal implement opportunity in which the higher-level organizations or people being charged are held responsible. of these cases come of

that is not what we see here, so the board of directors in this case, michigan state university, directly employed this doctor, need to, unfortunately, be held responsible based on the laws that exist. host: is there a concern that even if congress does respond and impose new rules, then without enforcement, that could all be for not? i think trying to enforce legislation alone does not answer all of the questions, being that there has to be theificant education for random bystander alone the signs of sexual abuse. the background investigations of certain people you're going to employe-.

y. that is the way i see it. host: this scandal was brought to light by the accusations of the young women who told about the abuse that they suffered. the "detroit free press," they ran a cover naming all 156 people, even the names where they were publicly disclosed and in other cases calling them by the victim number as they were identified in court documents. under the headline "courageous: these women brazenly came forward with their heartbreaking statement, making sure no one would forget what the monstrous doctor who worked at michigan state university and from usa gymnastics did to them." betty is calling on the line from palmetto, florida. good morning, betty. caller: i think about all of stuff,pe and all of this

there was ago, when slavery, that was rape, but nothing was said about it. , for 40these ladies now years, after they get a career, they started, they wanted to retire. why didn't they complain about it 40 years ago? people are of these young women, and this has been happening recently, in the case of the gymnastics. they were minors in a lot of cases when this was happening. caller: i understand that, ma'am, but nothing was not about our slave ladies back then. they had to work. by their masters. nothing was done about it, nothing was said about it, and

you do not hear about it now. i would need grow race, we never had no racist because all the light skinned, black skin tate lack-skinned negroes now are from rate. host: all right. aaron is calling from connecticut. oversightthink the should be -- it is not a black-white issue, is not a race issue, it is not a republican or democrat issue. in my opinion, it is a matter of people in power taking advantage of people. host: how do you guard against that, then, eric? responsible? school officials, olin but olympic officials, who should be the guardian care? help.: -- so much

this seems to me that they are more concerned with getting money where they need to get votes. it goes against older people taking advantage of younger people. host: all right. "usa today" has a report that has been uncovered that shows how larry nassar's activities were allowed to go unchecked for so long. denhollander toldmanda thomasshow police larry nassar sexually assaulted them, but the ensuing investigations into it with drastically different results.

host: that was the result of the finding of "lansing state journal" in michigan, which went through public records requests in light of the investigation into larry after those 156 women came forward. matt is only the line from nebraska. good morning. caller: good morning. it, not ahink about lot of folks know this, but these kids, they are trying to get on, make the olympics. kindsfamilies spent all of money getting them trained over all these years, and then, you know, to hear all of this stuff just makes me absolutely sick.

kimberly, i think one of the biggest points of this is, ok, we need to hold the ncaa accountable as well. i mean, penn state, yes, there were people who went to jail, and they paid out, what couple over $61 million in fines? stuffyou know, all the with baylor comes up, and you don't hear anything from the ncaa, nothing, because the ncaa does not answer to anybody. but they get the federal money, and i think that the reporter call pointed out that the only way to get anyone from the ncaa to actually get in there and start doing something is to take them off their nonprofit status. thehit the guys in checkbook, those guys from kansas city will start paying attention and really looking at things. this whole thing, i mean, just makes me sick because, you know, rearskids work therir

off to represent our country, and at having to put up with this sort of job just makes me sick. host: matt, do you think the repercussions should be stronger, as you mentioned, we have artie seen a situation abuse was uncovered, do you think that means other schools should have been on even higher notice, vielma lavelle for this type of thing? -- be on the lookout for this type of thing? caller: absolutely. they went so far as to take that stupid statue down at penn state of paterno, which they should have cured the ncaa just that ok, penn state, we found all this stuff out, now you go ahead and handle is yourself, take care of your payments, and we will not do anything to you. they should have pulled the trigger on them, i believe, in the football program, just like they did as an you back in the 1970's when all the pay for play

junk was going on. again, it gets back to the ncaa. host: house speaker paul ryan to the scandal in a series of tweets. he said "we have all been inspired by the courage of the american gymnasts coming forward to tell their story. the crimes committed against these young women are atrocious and rattle us all to the core." "the fact that these crimes went unreported to law enforcement is intolerable and it is a huge wake-up call." that is why next week, the house will continue its work to protect our children from a heinous crime of sexual abuse with legislation that makes major reforms to our nation's amateur athletic governing bodies." those tweets from speaker paul ryan. you can call (202) 748-8000 in the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 in the mountain and pacific regions.

if you are an amateur or collegiate athlete, or if you have one in your family, you can call (202) 748-8002. oklahoma.calling from what do you think? caller: i do nothing congress should have any role because they are sexual abusers themselves. why would you put wolves in the hen house for? they have done the same thing. they pay off their people that they abuse. we did not know anything about that for a long time, so i would not give congress say over anything. think is bestou suited to address these types of terrible actions? the parents and the officials in the state and the districts should have

required every doctor -- and he but man, that is one thing, when i was young and i first got pregnant, i went to the doctor, and i was on the examining table, and he tried to get on the table with me. i do not think congress should have anything to do with this. remember conyers? how many people today payoff pay offm-- did they with him? the sex abuse is in congress anything. host: all right. in some other headlines today, the "washington post" is reporting that president trump is shifting his views on the trade tax. president donald trump said his administration was open to joining a new version of the pacific rim trade bloc he has

long derided as "unfair to the united states." he would consider negotiating with the 11 members of the transpacific partnership "either individually or perhaps as a group, if it is in the interest of all," mr. trump said in a speech friday to the world economic forum in doubles, switzerland -- in davos, switzerland. host: dennis is calling from las vegas. what do you think the role of congress is in these sex abuse scandals? caller: i do not think they should have any role whatsoever, and i think that is what the oklahoma lady was trying to say. everything should be settled by the state, local, federal, parents, and they should look into all of that. at any university, the book

should stop with the president of the university. they should be held accountable. the parents should be held accountable as to what they knew. keep it in the legal system. if congress starts getting involved, it will get too crazy or two out of control. the ncaa will not do anything. host: we see this happening again, do you think that is -- caller: there is no question in my mind it will happen again. it happens in fraternities, happens at every major college in america. it is egregious with that i did with the gymnasts, and what brought it to light is it was the national gymnasts team. this happens everywhere. congress getting involved is not the answer. the ncaa is not the answer. i think setting new guidelines for universities is the answer. host: all right. myra is calling in from chicago. what you think the role of

congress is, if any? caller: i think it is really up to the parents. i have a daughter. aytime she has to go to checkup, either gynecological or other, i am in the room, and i do not understand how these young girls are left in a room alone either without parents or a nurse. i really think it is up to the parents to protect their children, to put them in harms way like that. thank you. host: ok. the "washington examiner" reports doing house committee memos could be released as early as next week. committeeintelligence dueling release two classified memos, one that republican say details surveillance abuses by the

federal government and one that democrats say corrects the inaccurate gop memo. talking to you about the olympic gymnastics abuse scandal and what the role of congress should be. again, (202) 748-8000 if you are on the eastern or central time zone. (202) 748-8001 for the mountain and pacific region, and if you are an amateur or collegiate athlete, or if you have one in your family, (202) 748-8002 is

the number for you to call. christopher is on the line from inglewood, new jersey. good morning. and thankod morning, you for taking my call. thank you, first of all, for c-span. i appreciate the fact that we are given a platform to speak out on issues such as this. i attended the women's march in new york city last week, and as i was marching, i was thinking about those ladies who spoke out in the trial. they were courage under fire. they knew what they were doing, and they did the right thing to speak out on this tragic issue that has affected us all. what we must that do as individuals is protect the women into what we have to do to make sure tragedies like this happen.ain have to is reportedure it correctly, justly, and it is the right thing to do because we need to make sure women are a inding wars in -- force

change. the congress needs to work together to make sure tougher laws are done to protect women's rights to they can do everything to become champions of hope to other ladies in the next generations to come. i believe that as long as we do that part, we do our part also to call upons, congress, the ncaa, and others, we have a chance to make things right. and never again let something like this go unnoticed and thered, because that is role of individuals who see something wrong, they need to speak up and stand up for those who are being harmed in any way, shape, or form. a to occur, and it is time to do so now. host: all right, thanks. on the front page of the "washington post" today, it is a story detailing how year after year, there were many chances to stop larry nassar from his

abuse, going back decades. "between 1995, girls and women raised complaints about who continue to treat -- an assault -- his patience until the 14th went to law enforcement and the "indianapolis star" in august 2016." host: it goes on to say that local and federal law enforcement were notified but failed to act. what do you think is the role for congress year? caller: first, thank you for

taking my call. i think congress should not be involved whatsoever. do, and theyugh to are doing really badly, as we can see. it should be left to local and state. but mainly, i think all of them, all of it should be brought up on charges, including the president and ceo,, brought up on charges of conspiracy and restitutionand pay to all the victims. you hand them the pockets, everybody will listen. in the future, they will all remember what happened, what they had to pay. this will not happen ever again because when you hit their pockets, that is when people listen. that is all i need to say. thank you for taking my call. have a nice day. host: all right, nikki is calling from new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say i do not think congress needs to be involved.

congress' job is to pass laws. we already have enough laws on the books. what we need to do is enforce the laws. of the problem is, nobody enforces laws anymore. big investigations, and nobody is charged. they need to charge people and enforce the laws. thank you. host: also in the "washington post" today, and other headlines, the democrats on the test therallying to investigation of robert mueller. congressional democrats demanded robert sial counsel iii after revelations president trump sought to oust him last summer from overseeing the probe into russian meddling in the 2016 election. several democrats and one

moderate republican called for votes on senate legislation that would prevent presidents from firing special counsel's unless a panel of three federal judges agreed with the move, citing revelations that trump came close to pushing out mueller last june. the president backed off only after white house counsel donald cgahn threatens to quit, according to two people familiar with the episode." we are continuing to talk about the role of congress in the gymnastics abuse scandal. amateur athlete calling in. caller: good morning. i think some of these athletics, specifically gymnastics, are outside of the parameter of a lot of rules and legislation, so it is kind of hard sometimes to hit coaches specifically. additionally, it is really important that we do protect

these athletes, but i do not necessarily think congressional law is the way to do that. ncaa has toend th step up as this job is literally to regulate college athletics. i think if the incident lay can do that, that is where the solution to the problem should come from and not necessarily from the hill. host: do you think it is the role of congress, at the very least, to impose more rules for punishments on the ncaa to ensure that it acts in the future? caller: i mean, i do not think i was necessarily have the ability to impose on the ncaa. i think it needs to be a discretionary topic, and i think it needs to be brought up and assessed by the members and taught and brought back to home states and looked at at the college level, and to seek that if congress releases a tuition, they also relates that to colleges. i think that would make sense.

but i do not think that he'll action is going to be able to solve this problem. host: was for did you play? caller: i am a competitive dancer, so i have a lot of experience with that kind of outside traditional team sports where a lot of time coaches can take power to their head. sexualnot had, like, abuse, but i have definitely had verbal and physical abuse problems. that youryou feel complaints or the complaints of your fellow competitors, dancers, do you think there was a place for them to be heard? caller: not necessarily, because with competitive dancing, there is not an overarching regulator, so it is individually up to each studio to uphold morality and whatnot. so for instance, with my studio, this was not a priority, so i have actually moved to a different place now just because i did not feel safe in that environment. host: we appreciate your call today. toer lawmakers are reacting

the gymnastics abuse scandal, including new hampshire senator who said "i am writing to call on the united states senate to immediately establish a select committee to investigate the role of the u.s. olympic committee and usa gymnastics and allowing serial pedophile dr. larry nassar unsupervised access to hundreds of girls across three decades. federally- a chartered institution, and it operates under the american flag, so the senate has a clear responsibility to expand this investigation beyond the narrow criminal charges adjudicated in michigan. you must investigate the actions of the usoc and usa gymnastics, including testimony under oath executives, and other personnel of the

organizations. authorization for this investigation was includes subpoena power to compel the two organizations to produce relevant documents and internal communication." edward is calling from rome, new york. what do you think? what is the role of congress in this? caller: i think congress should be involved. in fact, i think our government and people should be involved. i was glad to hear paul ryan come out strongly against what occurred. , be itve sexual abuse or adults should not be tolerated, and congress should do something about it. ryand it ironic that paul felt so strongly about it, and we have a man in office right and bragsts off buses about his actions. i think that is unacceptable also.

thank you. host: ok. in other headlines, the front page of the deferred action for childhood arrivals" -- in other headlines, the front page of the today,treet journal" donald trump promotes the u.s. as open for business in davos speech. host: al is calling in from santa rosa, california. you think the role

of congress should be in the gymnastics abuse scandal? caller: probably nothing. i think it is an absolute disgrace, just a disgrace what this man did. he will never see the light of day again, which is a good thing. anyway -- a host host: who do you think should be responsible for ensuring that acts of abuse like this no longer go unnoticed or un addressed for years and years, as has happened in this case? caller: it is horrible, horrible. know,out congress, you their skeletons are coming out of the closet now, too. they are not holding no hearings because they have got a golden ticket, you know. bill clinton and donald trump,

they got a golden ticket. hypocritical to have hearings, until they look into their own house. host: ok. evan is calling from staten island, new york. what do you think? caller: thanks, c-span, for letting us for dissipate in this. congress -- letting us participate in this. congress should play a role, and the ncaa should be held accountable. also, the caller, myra from chicago, hit it right on the head. ,he parent has to be protecting and when their daughter is being examined by a doctor, the least a nurse should be present. what i do not understand is such a straightforward remedy, just as a parent or a nurse,

chaperone, being present is what could go a long way in solving some of these problems. may be a parent is not traveling with the kid all the time, but if a nurse chaperone is assigned with the doctor during the exam, that should go a long way. host: ok, and we are talking, getting your thoughts about what, if any, role congress should play in this gymnastics abuse scandal. eastern and central time zone, (202) 748-8000. mountain or pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. or a family member or an amateur or collegiate athlete, call (202) 748-8002. we have the latest in a breaking news story out of kaubl, kabul, according to bbc news, the death toll in a suicide bomb attack has risen to

63 people. those numbers changing quickly today after an attack there in afghanistan. other headlines, foreign policy reports today that president trump launched a campaign to try to discredit potential witnesses in the russia probe. it says president donald trump press senior aides last june to devise and carry out a campaign to discredit senior fbi thatials after learning those specific employees were likely to be witnesses against special counsel robert mueller's investigation, according to two people directly familiar with the matter.

host: tommy is on the line from birmingham, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. i was a premed grad from michigan state, a father and obviously physician myself. i am absolutely torn about this situation. i think of couple of things that have artie been set, first, ground zero, -- i think a couple of things that have already been said, first, ground zero, parents have to be absolutely vigilant. this is not like corporations where things go one level higher -- things should be reported directly to the law and american medical societies. i: the american medical association to immediately release guidelines that are stringent and strict. 1000%ea of a chaperone is

correct, but you cannot beat on yourself on when you are in the room with the child. this is absolutely unacceptable. there is a cultural shift, which makes congress relatively irrelevant. enforcement is on notice, and these types of things cannot be held back. if you see something, say something, say something immediate, and say something to people that matter, including law enforcement and state medical societies and licensing boards, to put them on notice as well. umst: can i ask you, as an al and also as a doctor, what do you think so far by the response from michigan state university? is it adequate? processingm still this. i'm not satisfied yet. i do not know what the specifics are. i have emotional about it. in the sense that they say a doctor who treats himself has a full for a patient. i cannot say i am satisfied yet.

i do not know what the specific answers are as i am processing it other than what i said. i need to look at it further and calm down a bit, particularly as a father of a daughter. i wish i could have given you a better answer. host: we appreciate your call. terry is calling from kansas city, missouri. what do you think? is there a role for congress here? caller: of course there is. good morning, by the way. this is congress' job, what they are supposed to do, said federal guidelines that are applied equally across the country. a lot of people -- i realize that people are disheartened with congress and do not believe in them, but that is their job, and it needs to be a blanket -- there needs to be blanket legislation that covers everyone equally. this statearound in or that state, you know, that is congress' job. host: ok, the "wall street journal" is reporting and other headlines the economy is picking

up, signs of new spending. what has been a unexpectedly slow expansion, the u.s. economy is picking up steam. host: we continue to talk to you , asking you -- is there a role for congress in the abuse

amongl that we saw unfold u.s. gymnasts? ken is calling from auburn, massachusetts. hi, ken. caller: hi. i agree with the other two to a point, but i have to disagree with our congress, and here is the reason why -- they cannot even pass a budget. why do you think they can pass a law? i mean, seriously, they cannot even agree on what size toilet seats to put in the bathrooms. it is a shame. congress has come to a point where nobody has faith in them anymore. they cannot even do that. they cannot get along with each other. it is a disgrace. so to think that congress can even pass a simple legislative law to protect these children is preposterous to even think that because it cannot happen. host: ken, do you think that perhaps congress, even taking everything that you said, is this a time to congress to step

up now? maybe it has not acted to your satisfaction before, but you have this issue, which is bipartisan and has support for taking action, is there anything wrong with that? -- if theyon't know can't agree on a budget, they do not have time for this. and if they have time for this, then shame on them because the budget is just as important. we have to keep the country running. they cannot even make the function of the country run. the other part is the doctors. this is how i feel about the doctors -- the ncaa has their side of the story. then you also have the side of the story of the usa competitors, and athletes competing for the oligarchs. that is to different -- and before the olympics. different entities. women athletes have women doctors, men athletes have men doctors, and like the caller said, always, always, always

have someone else in that room with the. it should never just be dr.-patient. is calling from dallas. what do you think today? caller: i have a couple of points. one, congress has a civil duty to hold registered u.s. entities accountable, and also the associated organizations, and that would be the collegiate regulators and in the medical regulator. they have a lot of opportunities to be addressed, and it never was, and it could have been stopped originally. the pointso that where the american people are losing faith in congress, i think in congress' original review, i think it is the handoff to judicial action, and

that has not been consistent and has been a problem. also, in terms of laws versus new laws, the initial civil review, they need to do reinforcement of a pre-existing law and create laws where the gaps exist. in some ways, congress needs to have more internal and ethicaleir actions because i think there are in ethical people making these judgment calls. i think we need to have better follow-through. host: ok. paul is calling from arlington, virginia. what do you think, paul? caller: i think congress should get involved. they can have as many hearings of a want, but i will not be watching them because there are so many hypocrites in washington on this issue. do need, as the brother of

a handicapped man who was need to assaulted, we protect our elderly and our handicapped and our children and punish predators to the full extent of the law. i do think that state legislatures can do more about this than frankly our hypocritical congress and the executive branch. dean: that's all for this hour but coming up we will discuss the impact on industries like manufacturers and railroad. we'll be joined by jennifer jeffries. ian we'll be right back. >> two days before president

trump first state of the union of thewatch past state union addresses on sunday at noon eastern on american history tv featuring president ronald reagan, president george h.w. bush, president bill clinton, and president barack obama. >> raising taxes will not balance the budget. it will encourage more government spending and less private investment. raising taxes will slow economic productionuce re

and destroy future jobs, making those without jobs more difficult to find them and make it more likely that those who have jobs could lose them. i will not ask you to try to balance the budget on the backs of the american taxpayer. >> last fall, at the education summit, the governors and i agreed to look for ways to help make sure that our kids are ready to learn. the very first day they walked into the classroom. i made good on that commitment by proposing a record increase in funds. extra half $1 billion for something near and dear to all of us. headstart. >> our approach protects the quality of care and people's choices. it builds on what works today in the private sector, to expand employer-based coverage to guarantee private insurance for every american.

and i might say, employer-based private insurance for every american was proposed 20 years ago by president richard nixon the united states caucus. it was a good idea then and a better idea today. >> we cut taxes for 95% of working families. we cut taxes for small businesses. we cut taxes for first-time homebuyers. we cut taxes for parents trying to care for their children. we cut taxes for 8 million americans paying for college. >> watch sunday starting at noon eastern on american history tv on c-span3. for nearly 20 years, in-depth on book tv has featured the nation's best-known nonfiction writers for live conversations about their books. this year as a special project

we are featuring best-selling fiction writers for our monthly program. join us live next sunday, february 4 at noon eastern with colson whitehead, author of the underground railroad, which was awarded the pulitzer prize and national book award. his other novels include zone one, sag harbor, and the intuitionist. our in-depth fiction edition with colson whitehead, live from noon to 3:00 p.m. eastern sunday figure a fourth on c-span2 -- sunday, february 4 on c-span2. host: we will be talking about the latest in nafta negotiations. we are getting started with william mauldin, a wall street journal reporter and he is joining us from montreal the a skype -- via skype. thanks for joining us today.

thank you, kimberly. host: what is been the focus of nafta negotiations? william: even though it is cold in montreal talks have th awed. the u.s. putting forth some radical proposals. canada and mexico not really wanting to engage except for a little bit in the last round. we've had canada joining mexico, engaging at the negotiating table, especially on delicate issues of autos and the rules for cars and how they are traded among the countries and how much of those cars have to be made in the u.s., canada or mexico. kimberly: and what happens after this round of negotiation ends? william: there will probably be more rounds. the ministers or not case u.s. trade representative in the united states are going to arrive over the weekend. they will have a chat on monday

and that will set the tone for what comes next. previously the u.s. trade representative, very close to trump when it comes to trade, has criticized talks, criticized the lack of progress. we may see that soften. they will probably schedule more rounds. we hear there will be another round in mexico city. it comes down to whether the u.s., canada, and mexico can strike a deal that suits all three countries and can make it .hrough congress to be ratified if not, president trump has said he will pull out of the agreement. a lot of people following the talks think that is a possibility. about thetalk more reception the u.s., given president trump's comments about trade organizations, how has this round of negotiations or relations between the parties here differed from administrations past?

william: it's a very tense environment. questions whether the trump administration or some part of it supports the global trading system. the wto and past agreements the same way previous administrations have sought to support and uphold these institutions. that's in the background. , rathere countries here the two partners of the u.s., mexico and canada want strong dispute settlement at this a problem with tariffs coming out of the u.s. they want to be able to settle that within nafta. president trump has been talking s.out trade in davo the transpacific partnership deal that was abandoned before could be ratified, that has been reconstituted with the 11 other members not including the u.s. made big news around the pacific countries. what's happening is that as a fallback for mexico and canada. group.e part of that tpp

if talks drag on they can move on with trade with that group. president trump said for the first time that he is willing to negotiate with tpp members as a group to rejoin the agreement. it's not clear whether that is in earnest start of something in particular. that was an opening that shows insident trump is interested looking at some of these bigger groupings. kimberly: if, on the other hand the president decides to pull out of nafta, what would happen next? would congress get a vote in that matter? how the other members react do you think? william: that is a big debate. scholars think the president could pull the u.s. out of nafta unilaterally. congress would have a fit. anything that went wrong in the member's districts, anything in the state would be blamed on the

senator blamed on the president, blamed on washington essentially if the u.s. pulled out of nafta. it would be potential for lawsuits, legal challenges and it's possible congress could muster together a vetoproof majority became the u.s. in nafta or could rewrite trade laws to give themselves a say. you have a lot of members in congress who are skeptical about nafta, especially on the democratic side. kimberly: william mauldin of the wall street journal. thank you for joining us from montreal. and here to talk a little further about some of the industries impacted by these negotiations we have jennifer --mas of the federal affairs the federal affairs vice president of the alliance of automobile manufacturers and also ian jeffries, vice -- senior vice

president of governmental affairs at the association of american railroads. thank you for joining us today. usore we get started, remind of what your organizations do and how they are funded. ian: the association of american railroads represents not only u.s. but canada and mexican privately owned freight railroads. truly a north american organization. we represent rail industry suppliers. policythe lead standard-setting, research, all of the above when it comes to d.c. policy for the rail industry and suppliers jennifer: . the auto alliance we represent 12 automakers both domestic and international nameplates. about 70% of the new car and light truck market in the u.s.

also the leading advocacy group for the auto industry in washington. kimberly: ceos have come together on the issue of nafta. tell us about what is behind that. what interests do you have in common as nafta is under renegotiation right now? jennifer: so for the auto industry, there's a great deal at stake. perhaps more than any other sector in this debate. after has been critical to the success of the auto industry. we are in the middle of a manufacturing renaissance. the great recession in 2008. nafta has been critical to that resurgence. we are hopeful that we emerge with a successful outcome, a modernized nafta that strikes the right balance and preserves the industry's competitiveness

globally. ian: for freight railroads we are the conduit to international trade for the u.s. economy. 41% of our traffic is directly related to international trade. 36% of our industry's revenues. 50,000 jobs, directly related to import and export. we annually export approximately 330 million tons and import about 170 million tons to and from power nafta trading partners. the auto industry is an excellent example, almost 75% of finished automobiles on a train and deliver to market. when it comes to international movements, our industry is at the forefront. kimberly: we are joined by jennifer thomas and ian jeffries to talk about the latest rounds of nafta negotiations. democratsn call here, (202) 748-8000, republicans,

(202) 748-8001, independents, (202) 748-8002. an op-ed by the ceos abort organizations -- of both organizations, talking about this issue and the importance of these latest rounds of negotiations. it says in part, it negotiators cap reach agreement on key provisions of the 23-year-old trade pact it is in danger of outright termination. nafta has increased trade between the member nations from $290 billion in 1993 to $1.1 trillion last year. eager foreign competitors will up the piecesck and welcome even more north --rican writ manufacturers

north american manufacturers to relocate and lower the cost of doing business. jennifer, talk about what this could mean for the auto industry. jennifer: nafta has enabled the industry to remain competitive around the globe. should nafta go away, it would set us behind other countries. there's really three global platforms if you're an auto manufacturer, north america, europe, and asia. those two regions will pick up the pieces and take away production and market share from the u.s. so we need to be mindful as we proceed in negotiations that we ultimately do what is best for the economy and the consumer and the american worker. kimberly: in the interview we just did with will come he mention that the auto industry is something that is coming up in the current round of negotiations. what do expect come from that?

jennifer: our industry is in the crosshairs of this debate. the administration has put our in pointinga target is aow the trade deficit part of our industry and we are a result of it. we are concerned that the focus on the trade deficit is not the measure to be guiding this debate. called an issue automotive rules of origin which is front and center in this debate. it dictates the amount of con content that has to be produced to qualify for duty free treatment. the highest of any trade agreement in the world. what the administration is is to take back that

role and make it more stringent. not only make it a requirement to have to source through the north american region but source to the u.s., which is unprecedented. we are hopeful they will moderate from that proposal and we will end up with a rule of origin that continues to strike the right balance and does not harm the industry or the consumer, the american worker. kimberly: i want to look at what the president has said about this. -- thee president terminating nafta will yield a better deal. president trump on wednesday said terminating the north american free trade agreement would result in the best deal to revamp the 24-year-old trade pact with canada and mexico. groups have warned trump not to quit nafta. he says that may be the outcome. you think the better deal can be

struck if the usa pulls out of nafta? ian: i think our members feel strongly that is not the direction to go. we take a macro deal when it comes to macro right now -- the nafta right now. updating, absolutely come in but pulling out is not an option in our opinion. our view is first and foremost do no harm to the core of nafta. keep it agreements -- keep agreements trilateral and create certainty. the economy thrives on certainty , certainty in the regulatory space and certainty in the trade space as well. that's what we need to keep the economy moving forward. it would be the wrong direction to pull out to try to get a better deal. kimberly: we are joined by jennifer thomas, vice president of federal affairs with the alliance of automobile inufacturers and also jefferies, senior vice president

of governmental affairs with the association of american railroads. we are talking about nafta negotiations. democrats can call (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. eric is on her democratic line from atlanta. caller: good morning. officeorge bush got in he give us tax breaks but the only difference from what trump did, george bush gave everybody a rebate check. we later on found out the result tothat -- you're not going be able to tell the immediate effects of it. president obama put all these policies in place an order for the economy to go like it is. steady on and up since obama was in office. obama created more jobs. let me get to nafta. a republican policy. it started up under george bush

and reagan. people say bill clinton -- george w. bush and reagan. kimberly: i want to give are -- give our guest a chance to respond. ian: it was something under negotiation for quite some time and it was signed into agreement under president clinton. but we have seen in our industry is a dramatic export goods movement out of the country as well as into the country with nearly twice as much out of the country in cargo where moving. the largest product movement trade wise for our industry is grain exports to mexico. we see nafta writ large has benefited the u.s. economy. i know there is a view even if we do not pull out of

nafta that there is room for improvement. penultimate.com? -- where do you think that improvement can come? is nearly afta -- we believey the economy, certainly the auto industry has transformed a great deal since nafta went into effect. the agreement can be updated to reflect those changes. , adapting itdone ,o reflect the digital economy just getting started back in 1994, allowing for cross-border data flows. there's a lot that can be done in regulatory cooperation to make sure the region remains a .eader in regulations

, enablingg it more the economy to be competitive globally is key and should be front and center in this debate. linerly: paul is on the from fort edward, new york. caller: i'm from upstate new york. our economy was devastated by nafta. we lost hundreds and hundreds of jobs. factories moved down south. wages have been flat ever since. the average working people would not be just thrown out of work, which is what nafta did. the price of cars steadily went up since nafta was implemented. but wages have stayed flat.

guests thate no represent the people that lost their jobs to this horrible bill? all right, jennifer. i want you to address his concerns. jennifer: for the auto industry we support over 7 million jobs in this nation. since nafta was enacted we have 14 automakers in 14 states operating 44 assembly plants. the industry has transformed and a lot has been done in the area of automation. in regards to the industry, we believe we are winning under nafta. we've seen the industry producing one million more vehicles last year than in the year before now was enacted, 12.2 vehicles -- 12.2 million vehicles. we are continuing to grow exports.

we export twice as many vehicles as we did the year before nafta was enacted. we believe the facts are on our side that nafta has been good for our industry. we are very much concerned about the american autoworker and they should be front and center in this debate. we will measure any sort of success as whether or not it is good for the american worker. perils?: are there from nafta as well as benefits ian: think jennifer hit on it. nearly a quarter-century old agreement. updating is an improvement. there are some things that could be improved and things that could be changed. keeping the core fundamental agreement in place to us is critical to the success of the economy. kimberly: the chamber of commerce put out a list of states that would be hit hardest should the united states pull out of nafta. at the top of the list is

michigan. it says it would put at risk 366 thousand jobs in that state that depend on trade with canada and mexico according to the american enterprise institute, putting 38.9% of michigan's gross domestic product depends on trade, the highest in the nation. the report lists other cities. wisconsin, north dakota, texas, missouri. talk about that regionally. where might we see -- we see some midwestern states but other places like texas and he had by this. specifically, there's a colossal amount of .ross-border trade even talk about the auto sector, certain components on it comes to railroads, we will move those components across the border of the seven times during development. it is critical to keep the flow

.f goods moving with built up a supply chain over the last quarter-century. a very complex supply chain and on something he can just turn up overnight without significant consequences. kimberly: talk about the political crossover. michigan, wisconsin, iowa, they are important states politically as well. jennifer: mr. trump, president trump won a lot of those rust belt states. you seen recently a lot of governors of those states get engaged in this debate. an express concerns for the administration because they see firsthand what the industry has done for their states economies. they've transformed communities .cross the states nafta has made the u.s. attractive for several global companies like toyota, bmw, mercedes. they've made us home.

bmw is a prime example. the spartanburg plant is their largest in the world. it is an export hub for them. they have attracted a great deal of suppliers to south carolina. a lot of these states have been transformed because of the industry and that's because of what nafta has created. kimberly: lou is calling in on the republican line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. years.in texas 12 i've been around because of traveling, military, teaching. some companies may have profited with nafta. i think overall for the americans it's not been good. there have been a lot of people i've known and people who've known people who lost their jobs, industry moves and so forth. i'm impressed president trump is

surrounding himself generally with smart people in several areas and one of them is economics. i feel strongly that he will do what's right and nafta is not necessary for our country to prosper. i think we will do better without it. kimberly: but your reaction to that. jennifer: i respectfully disagree. nafta should not go away would have the opposite of the administration's goals. it would result in the industry and other industries becoming less competitive globally. that will raise production costs and that will have a ripple effect. that will result in sales decreasingproduction and demand decreasing. result in plants shuddering and jobs being lost. that is what we are trying to avoid in this debate.

we remain hopeful that we can end up with a successful outcome in these negotiations and that is our goal as an industry to modernize nafta to bring it into the 21st century so that we can continue to remain competitive globally. kimberly: we are talking with jennifer thomas of the alliance of automobile manufacturers. andy and jefferies of the association of american railroads. -- and ian jefferies of the associates of american railroads. a piece in the washington times that agrees with the president saying he should ignore calls by the chamber of commerce multiple out of nafta. he writes, consider just 1% particularly egregious act of nafta, dispute settlements regime, the irs ds empowers private attorneys as arbitrators to interpret united states laws and issue enforceable judgment in violation of the constitution's appointments clause.

--sds enables foreign investors to challenge actions of the government of the united before international tribunals. ian: in any kind of trade agreement sovereignty is a key aspect and a sticky want to work through. i know our industry feels there to thehs forward sticking points that can work for all countries involved. that is where we should be focused, a solutions oriented approach versus being stuck on these issues. kimberly: ian is calling from frederick, maryland on our democrats line. caller: hello, fellow ian and hello jell- jennifer. by -- wassigned

written by george h.w. bush, there's always couldn't sign nafta thing. if you go and look it up, it says the majority of republicans voted for it, the majority of democrats voted against it. in congress. all you hear is clinton signed nafta. it sounds like the democrats are to blame for nafta. nafta,ould type google, reagan heritage. sayslowing article that how much reagan wanted nafta and big pat on the back to clinton for signing nafta. presidentwe have the who is critical of this right ,ow, republican president republican congress where there is support for it. is this a political, partisan

issue? with the approach be different under a democratic congress or democratic president? jennifer: we are in an interesting time where free republicanypically a seems toissue that have flipped and our democrats are supporting free-trade and republicans. but we don't think nafta should be viewed in a partisan lens. just last fall, we saw a bipartisan congressional letter sent to the president expressing to benefits of nafta guided by the principle of do no harm in these negotiations. i believe both democrats and republicans see what nafta has done to the economy and that we should tread lightly in this debate. kimberly: dawn is calling from kalamazoo on our republican line . one of the states the chamber of commerce says with the impact of the most. good morning don.

caller: good morning. i'm getting awful tired. not fighting after one where the other. i'm just getting tired of people still blaming the republicans for passing nafta. democrats have the white house, they had the senate, they had the house. there was no way the republicans could pass anything. all republicans could have voted for nafta, it still would not have passed unless the democrats put in the last few votes. that makes the democrats responsible for nafta and that's all i have to say about it. we been involved in hill meetings. with the house and the senate. a broad and with stakeholder group that includes not only business groups, auto groups but also agriculture , we hitust last week

every office in the senate. from the most conservative member to the most progressive member, we did not hear anyone say they are the best path forward was pulling out of nafta. folks agree some changes should be made, absolutely. but by and large, the view is pulling out would not be good for the country. kimberly: another issue that is come up, tariffs, the washington post reports republican senators on wednesday condemned president trump's decision to impose tariffs on washing machines and panels. exposing simmering gop divisions over international trade. i don't agree with that, i think it's a bad path to head down, senator roy blunt, republican from missouri, said about the tariff decisions. terrified isry

never a good fight and i generally think we need to be more positive about our trade opportunities. ian: i think he expresses a legitimate concern, anytime one productuts tariffs on a , it is not unreasonable to assume there will be a countermeasure. with concern he expressing its escalation that could occur and result in increased tariffs over a number of products that end up making the u.s. less competitive in the long run. jennifer: i agree with what ian said that i would add that ultimately who pays the price is the consumer. since that announcement, you saw major company of washing machines announce they would have to increase the prices of their products. that is what we are concerned about in the nafta debate. if we end up with an unworkable nafta reduction costs will go up and ultimately it's the consumer who pays the price.

with the average price of a car today and $35,000, the last thing we need to do is add unnecessary regulatory costs such as what would happen if a bad nafta were to emerge. kimberly: bob is on our independent line from york, pennsylvania. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was responsible from multiplan's prior to my retirement. we had those, majority in the u.s. and a couple in mexico. if you get to the nitty-gritty and have to work with real people and see the impact of closing in factory facilities, going in and seeing people cry, people being concerned knowing they will not have that same standard of thisg, i think a lot of falls on the management of these companies.

it's easy to move something out of country, more difficult to look at cost-cutting measures without cutting people in effectively managing your organization. going back in the united states .n the 60's i agree, i don't think we should scrap nafta, but what are we going to do about that situation where we don't apply the appropriate pressure on our own country to keep jobs here? because towns devastated in the northeast if you go to pennsylvania, new york, they are devastated, there is no downtown. kimberly: i want to give jennifer a chance to respond. jennifer: i would point out since nafta went into effect, 15 new auto manufacturing plants have come up in the u.s., more than mexico and canada combined. last year, we saw the industry announced a billion dollars worth of investment in new

plants and equipment in the u.s. . this year you saw toyota and mazda announced a joint venture where they will be building a new facility in alabama. announced a new facility in south carolina. as a great deal of investment happening in this country. there could be more and we are hopeful that in the renegotiated nafta that we could see it, and environment that enables and nhances investment in the u.s. we support the president's goal in growing manufacturing jobs at home, but scrapping nafta or an unworkable nafta is not the way to do it. of times i know a lot when we think about nafta and trade with about one direction or another. a bloomberg piece points out, takes a look at a small company in michigan called first tronic

which makes circuit boards for auto parts and uses it to describe how complex it is. in this case it begins where parts are made, starting out with parts from asia. the companies based in grand rapids michigan but it buys the parts minute goes on to ship those parts to mexico, where it's inserted into the circuit board, then it comes back to el --o, texas then goes on to it goes up to canada

ian: demonstrating how supply chaind our has become. -- back andi forth all we are to the finished product. to think you can pull up and pull out of nafta and overnight developed this industrial base within the u.s., it is tough to fathom that and not something we would expect to see. kimberly: i want you to talk about the chain of supply and how railroads play a part. i think a lot of people think about automobiles missing about trade. talk about the impact this has on railroads. ian: our industry alone invests about $25 billion private capital every year into our networks. that is facilitating the flow of goods not only within the u.s. but across the borders into

mexico, canada, into our ports to flow across the oceans to other countries. , beork with our customers it from manufacturing to industrial products, finished goods to agriculture, and work with them in their investments, their citing based on what is most appropriate situation for them. our investment decisions are driven by a customer's decisions. the key is certainty in knowing what the rules of play are going to be. our customers will make the investments we need. kimberly: we are joined by jennifer thomas of the alliance of automobile manufacturers and in jefferies of the association of american railroads. we are talking about nafta negotiations and what they mean. steve is on our democratic line from florida. caller: good morning, great discussion. that we make a point

are now in a global society, a global economy and that's just the way it is. we need to operate within it and we need to embrace and embellish it. there's no turning back now. i'm from the rust belt, northwestern pennsylvania, that ran on steel and railroad. our communities, the souls of our communities got torn down to the floor boards. that whole area hit bottom and we had to rebuild piece by piece over the last three decades with really no help from corporate america or the government. we have redefined the communities up there. the communities have redefined their economy and become diverse . i hate to think that all that nowess was in vain because

we are starting to throw terrorists out there which i don't think is constructive all are going to do is alienate global trading partners. tariffs, which is passed this tax giveaway to movedcorporations who other jobs overseas, yet they are able to generate revenue , under thex-free notion that it is double taxation. kimberly: i want to give jennifer a chance to respond. jennifer: i think steve makes a point. we are operating on a global economy. it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle or turn back time. i think that is what would happen if nafta were to go away. we'll be taking a huge step act while the rest of the world

continues -- step back while the rest of the world continues to move forward in this globalized world. we will continue being competitive. it's important that north america remain competitive. i saw a recent study this week that was released by the trade partnership worldwide that estimated that 1.8 million jobs would be lost if nafta were scrapped in the first year alone. that would be devastating. that is the wrong direction for this economy to be heading. the administration has put in place several pro-business measures that are attracting investment. we want to continue to see that happen. should nafta go away, our global partners would certainly win while the u.s. would be the big loser. kimberly: chester is on a republican line from worcester, massachusetts. caller: good morning.

milton friedman pointed out a long time ago that we hold our self-interest at part. i have a question for the commentators, what are your income levels and what do you stand to lose with the scrapping of nafta? ,an: speaking from our industry our industry employs about 180,000 folks directly within the u.s. these are collectively bargained , good jobs, average wages and .enefits near $100,000 a year that is what concerns us so much , putting these good american jobs at risk by taking a rash move when it comes to nafta. jennifer: i agree. the auto industry supports more than 7 million jobs across the country and we want to continue to see that number grow. scrapping nafta would do the opposite effect. has the potential to cost millions of jobs and would be

devastating for the nation's economy. kimberly: i want to talk about the country of origin rules president trump is proposing hiking the share of a typical car that must be built in the three countries and adding an additional requirement for 50% of its content coming from the u.s. why would that help the u.s. auto industry? jennifer: we believe that and woulds unworkable have the opposite of the administration's goal in this debate. the existing role of origin, since the 2.5% of the content -- 62.5% of it content of a car, the highest of any rul in the world. it has incentivized companies to .roduce in this region there is a delicate balance that needs to be struck. the existing role has struck

that balance. we are engaged in this debate heavily. because there is a lot at stake. we are open to creative, new ideas that would maintain that balance and enhance the industries competitiveness globally. kimberly: kurt is on our independent line calling from around mills, new jersey. c-span.thank you, my question is, i'm an old man, a machinist, i'm skeptical that we can compete. the way the country is going, it seems to be becoming a lawless state. i would think trump may be trying to bring back the honor system. nafta is our heart and money is our blood. you're not going to destroy the world anything money will find its source. trying to get back the honor

system, everyone is breaking laws. think part of the reason the u.s. remains such an attractive place to invest is that we do have a strong rule of law, strong regulatory system, predictable business environment. i think it's key, open trading environment, that's all part of this that makes the economy attractive and successful. anything policymakers do, they need to take a clear odd approach to make sure we maintain this -- a clear eyed approach to make sure we maintain the stability. kimberly: i want you both to talk about how your members are preparing in the event that president trump does pull the u.s. out of nafta. -- we aree preparing working very hard to make sure policymakers are aware of the negatives that would come and the positives that have come from nafta. we are a product of our customers.

we will make the investments necessary to serve customers. we are in constant communication with our customers. several members have customers who are awaiting investment decisions on both sides of the border until this plays itself out. regardlessoncerned of the situation, we will make the investments necessary to serve them as best we can. jennifer: so we are very much engaged in this debate and watching very closely. we remain hopeful that we emerge from the renegotiations with a better nafta. are -- whilehat we i am not privy to my members contingency plans, they are certainly taking members should nafta go away -- taking measures should nafta go away.

you seen a lot of investment announcements recently but again we remain hopeful that we will emerge with a better nafta that is good for the industry, good for consumers and good for workers. kimberly: louise is on a republican line from fredericksburg, virginia. caller: considering cars and trucks have quadrupled since nafta and as we see from the representatives -- i don't know who they represent, they're saying they represent the railroads and the automobile, but who they really represent and/or their members -- and who are their members? nafta, essentially they have taken jobs from the country and that is all there is to it. it looks as if what you guys are doing is shuffling papers.

if something has to go seven times around the world but ,ostly sourced in china transported to mexico or the canada and then shipped into the u.s., who makes the money on the big parts? china, not us. how do you go about thinking that nafta is a good thing? to me you both are ridiculous. kimberly: i want to give jennifer and ian chance to respond to those concerns and also explain a little more who your members are. jennifer: the auto alliance has 12 automakers. detroit three companies. it european member companies like bmw, mercedes. we also represent asian automakers like toyota and mitsubishi. .e have a diverse membership i would take a step back and say nafta has created an integrated

regional supply chain within north america. even if vehicle's are produced in mexico or canada, those support high paying jobs in the u.s. before nafta, mexican produced cars only had 5% value of u.s. nt.te today the figures 40%. -- the figure is 40%. that regional supply chain has allowed the north american industry to essentially become one and support jobs throughout the region. kimberly: talk more about that supply chain specifically. the case that was outlined by asia,erg first came from -- parts came from asia manufactured all over the world. a small company based in michigan. talk a little bit about how that happens. who profits from that kind of

product? ian: the a our members are the nations freight railroads. class one railroads, but also the smaller locally owned railroad. these are domestically owned american companies, investing in america. he mentioned the complex supply chain. -- you mentioned the complex supply chain. we developed a supply chain were specialization regions, countries, towns that are able to specialize in certain areas of expertise can thrive and railroads connect everyone together. we are a product of our customer base. when you look at imports and exports when it comes to railroads, we are exporting almost twice as many times we are importing across borders to mexico and the u.s. overall. kimberly: the president talks a lot about trade deficits. we have a trade deficit with other member countries and nafta? ian: i can tell you from our

industries experience we are moving a lot more goods out and we are importing but at the macro level i would not want to get into specifics where i'm not qualified to. kimberly: rich is calling from centreville, virginia. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. my question is, mr. mnuchin apparently announced a new monetary policy the other day, the weak dollar in excellent be good for the country. i've never heard of anything like that in my life. the president backed him up on that. how does that affect the american public? further, how does that affect dollar, lesse weak buying power for the american public but how does that effect the manufacturing industry? i've heard nobody talk about it. if this becomes a new folli pol, you guys ought to have a show

about that to let the public know. kimberly: talk about how those strength of the dollar impacts this discussion. jennifer: i would bring it back to nafta. i would say nafta has enabled the region to remain competitive globally and that is what allowed production costs to with other on par production platforms that i mentioned earlier, europe and asia. back to question about the trade deficit, we don't believe that is the right measure for debate.oing u.s. and mexican markets is comparing apples and oranges. 2016, we sold in the u.s. a record number of 17.5 million vehicles. mexico, they sold 1.6 million vehicles. you can't really compare the two

markets. the correct measure to be using in order to determine whether or not the new revised agreement is good should be is it good for the industry, the economy, the american worker. kimberly: we've seen some of the movingcountries announce forward with bilateral agreements. what do you think the impact will be? jennifer: to me that signals that canada is preparing for a world where there's no nafta. so we need to be careful to not be left behind. tpp, the recent trade agreement with the eu, they are moving ahead in this global economy toward embracing trade liberalization. we need to continue on that path to remain competitive globally. kimberly: tom is calling on our independent line from

massachusetts. caller: good morning. questionto reiterate a in an earlier caller placed with both guests and both guests redirected their answers to a different issue. the caller asked what do both guests stand to lose personally whatfta to the ended, not jonese people that gained from their associations to lose. ian: we represent the freight rail industry. as the economy goes, as customer goes the freight rail industry

goes. when the economy does not do well, that is not good for anybody. jennifer: likewise. i'm here today representing the automakers. that is why i've highlighted the benefits of the industry. says,n says -- like ian if we are operating without nafta that is not that for anyone. consumers nationwide have enjoyed the benefits of nafta, whether it be the retail and when they go shopping in the shopping mall, they enjoyed low store. or in the grocery you now have access to avocados your round. -- avocados your round. year round. kimberly: we talked about the story earlier how it is still strong fines in terms of gross the mystic product, the stock market.

how does nafta fit in with that overall discussion about the economy? ian: i think it fits in, it's a major issue. you just so congress and administration work hard to move the first comprehensive tax package with the goal of economy.the a particular regulatory structure. it all comes back to certainty, certainty when it comes to trade, regulation. the specter of potentially pulling out of nafta could be a hindrance and would have negative consequences economically and when it comes to domestic companies. darrell is on our line from alabama. caller: one factor that distorts anyoneate, when construes the question as either

you're a free trader or a protectionist. that is not the way things work. trade, if one side has dramatically lower labor costs where there's government subsidy or you're dealing with mass immigration, it drives down wages, you are not in a situation of free trade protectionism. whenever a person does that, they wrap themselves in the shroud of protection of free trade that does not exist. the other thing i want to say is part of the reason trumka -- part of the -- reason trump got elected is the test of what our economic system is right now. and they want something different than a lower price. they don't want husbands and

fathers working at walmart and think the trade-off is great because they get a car that's a little less expensive. kimberly: i want to give jennifer a chance to address those issues. jennifer: since nafta went into effect 15 new autumn when you factoring facilities have sprouted up across the country. we support more than 7 million jobs. the auto supply side alone, they -- between theut years of 2012 and 2015 they saw a 19% increase in employment. the suppliers community alone. we are very much growing jobs here at home and continue to do so. we are hopeful that make the investments hereus to

at home but i just caution folks that make the investments here at you would see the opposite effect and that would have a ripple effect throughout the see jobshere you would --line and costs in police increase. caller: to correctly guy from minutia, caller about i saw them talking on c-span he did not say he was in favor of a weaker dollar. he commented that at this point where the dollar was and what the fluctuations that occur in the country. he wasnot alarmed that not doing anything to change it at this point. donald trump said the opposite

and said he was in favor of the stronger dollar. not on tv advocating for a weaker dollar. as far as nafta is concerned, a , most of the developing world requires a much higher percentage of growth than we do. china has been concerned for years about how it was -- if china pulls off the first have a soft landing. from the growth rates that they have. but they still require high to not have, tremendous disruption in their economy as they try to move more people out of poverty. position the strongest in the world and the greatest consuming nation in the world. if we did have a so-called trade

war of some kind. i am not in an industry that is affected by this. i work in technology industry and my kids and family do. we will always be working in that area. to give them at chance to respond to the issue. one thing we have to spend -- a majorg about area of export to a country, 36% of all farm land is designated for x or. -- export.

kimberly: thank you both for joining us this morning. coming up we will be taking your issues, thaticy are on your mind. we will be right back. >> tuesday morning we are live in atlanta, georgia for the c-span bus 50 capitals to her. governor will be on washington journal starting at nine: 30 this morning. this weekend american history

tv on c-span3. tonight, at 8 p.m. eastern on railamerica the film "saigon open target zero. " army succeeded a chance to use a women and children of the area. then on sunday tenney in easton interviews from the west point center for oral history, helicopter pilot. hill -- helicopter pilot in 1968 and that was a major big deal effort. we lost 24 aircraft the first day. the distinct memories that i is a ch 47 chinook

flying down the valley with fire coming out of the back of his aircraft. >> at 6 p.m. eastern on american artifacts, week forest professor shares images from his book american art and the first world war. wash american history tv this weekend on c-span three. the president of the united states. night president donald trump gives his first state of the union address to congress and the nation. join us on c-span for a preview of the evening starting at 8 p.m. eastern, then the state of the union speech live at 8 p.m., following this the democratic response from congressman joe kennedy. we will also hear your reaction and comments from members of congress. the state of the union address, tuesday night live on c-span.

listen live in the free c-span radio app. mainable live are on the -- on demand at c-span.org. >> washington journal continues. kimberly: we are taking your calls on open phones, talking about what is on your mind. some headlines from across the country. the lansing state journal, michigan's capital, talks more about the nassar fall out and u.w it affects ms the follow-up from the sexual assault scandal. the detroit free press leads with a lack of transparency and is scrambling, talking about the policies that were not

in place for transparency at the university of -- michigan state university. philadelphia inquirer talking about making a pitch, the option of president trump speaking at dominoes -- davos. the arizona republic opens a debate over daca. an uncertain future says one participant. and the chattanooga times, talking about this flu season come it has not, the worst flu since 2009. 37 children have already been killed.

tom from ohio on our democratic line. good morning. i wish to relate my historical experiences with nafta. has a ford employee in 1972. the first eight years, but most important person was chairman volker. i remember two events, the firing of the traffic controllers, the other was the laws, i wille -- and the impacts, of the domestic content laws peru called ross the great sucking sound. this was before nafta. george bush, i believe, created

in and signed it. , was relieved when that came because mexico and canada -- we had ours on. everything was sucking out of our country and they were free to sell in our country. when it was signed i felt it was a great relief and there were jobs that did come back to this country. thingeve nafta was a good , even though i am an autoworker . nobody believes like i did, but it did stabilize things from the great sucking sound. present day i am a democrat. i do believe in nafta because i do believe our trade representatives have a fairly good basis of knowledge of what --y are doing as opposed to

i believe we have an immoral president now, and i believe he is obstruction of. dairy -- theory, pennsylvania. about: this question nafta, the answer to this nafta problem is simple. tol these people that want move their production facilities out of our country that they have to sell their product -- if they have 50% of their production workers in mexico they have to sell 50% of their product in mexico not make it and bring it back here. the next thing is people have to recognize -- and i used to be a republican until i saw how they treated barack obama.

the people have to recognize what it is republicans are up to. they only have to get in power once every 10 years to screwup everything for the middle class and provide everything for the upper class. look what donald trump has done since he has been in power, he still has his cabinet full of billionaires, and they are for goodies and more wealth for themselves. remember they only have to do it once every 10 years in order to screw things up for 10 years for the middle class. nbc news is reporting that the death tall after the explosion in afghanistan has risen to 95. 158 people injured after explosives hidden in an

ambulance were detonated at a couplecheckpoint in --kabul. lawrence on our republican line from kentucky. caller: good morning. lot of work has because ofs country nafta. i have been in manufacturing for happen toand i would be in the facility that was very diversified on the come up -- components that it made for

and i keptroducts, my job, a well-paying job. i think a lot of people do not realize that most of the manufacturers of automobiles, ford, general motors, and all sub assembles some ,f their cars from imports sub-assemblies that are put together, not made here. it is not manufactured and those are good, technical jobs that should be here. if somebody will sell me an item, i would rather somebody in america make that that somebody because it is the

technology that is lost. those high paying jobs do pay taxes and pay down the debt. if you are going to pay the debt down, you have to have people working and paying taxes. david from wisconsin on our independent line. caller: i would like to talk about nafta. your previous guest talked about how green was a big export down to mexico. grain is heavily subsidized. nafta put a lot of the farmers in mexico out of his this -- business. they may have migrated up to the united states. a lot of the countries that we trade with have not placed a added value tax, which acts similarly lee -- similarly to a tariff.

i wish i had called while your guests were here, i would like them to comment on that. fromrly: another headline the washington post, it talks about infrastructure plan that the white house has begun outlining. the white house has directed a proposal that has scaled back environmental comment -- requirements as part of an infrastructure plan. it could be released as soon as next week. the plant would change things which is how officials decide a mexico woulde with be built and whether the national park service could .bject to development advisetration officials they are willing to alter the package. they are made it clear

speaking about sweeping changes in decades. the government approved and overseas infrastructure projects. andrew is calling from illinois on our democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a couple of comments. one is a follow-up from yesterday that a lot of people are not talking about. the president continues to push his agenda towards making america great. he continues to say how everyone's 401(k)s are doing so well in this country. there is roughly around 325 million people in this country and roughly about 54 million that have 401(k)s that they can contribute to. us thate 271 million of are pretty much are living paycheck to paycheck and watch what we spend.

it is not everyone's reaping the awards of this -- rewards of the stock market. another thing i wanted to bring , in the first nine months in this administration, president has spent $147 million on personal travel for he and his family. presidentht years obama spent $98 million. we are talking about $1 million versus $16 million per month for president trump. one other thing the president talked about is that there is too much work to do in washington. not want to take vacations. he said that to usa today when he was running.

he is on pace to take more vacation days than the all-time leader, president bush. andident clinton took 345 eight years. president trump will surpass the 300 mark in about four years. kimberly: daniel is calling from texas on the republican line. nafta has destroyed the state. , ands started by bush clinton. saysieve what ross perot -- new world order. mexico,ant to live in

the bestthe extreme -- thing in america is the middle class. other headlines, the former secretary of state hillary clinton has responded to revelations that campaign advisor was accused of sexual harassment. she responded to a new york times report that she kept the advisor on her campaign after he was accused of sexual harassment dismayedsays she was when she was made aware of the allegations against her then senior faith advisor burns strider but was heartened that his accuser came forward.

her concerns were taken seriously and addressed. she said i called her today to tell her how proud i am of her and to make sure she knows what to women should be deserved be heard. christina from miami on the democratic line. caller: first of all president stronger dollar. trump -- onsident deficitwe have a huge with mexico and canada. those international agreements -- 50 years famous

, those agreements our favorite to the small nations. mexico and canada have no benefit like the u.s.. they need us more than we need them. the free flow of to finds we find a way a way for the capital to stop flowing out of the country i do not believe that we have substantially stem the flow of jobs in the united states. walmart close to $3 billion a

year in benefits and tax reduction. this is a small percentage of the rewards that they will. a call from alexandria, virginia on the democratic line. caller: i'm calling you because last time i was looking at a hearing on national securities withy -- strategy secretary of state kissinger and deputy secretary of state, they were talking about what we will be doing in the world and what sort of growth we will back. it within the does session, -- the discussion the secretary of

--schultz, he was , ilying to senator cotton happen to be an immigrant and naturalized citizen, i like the theonse that the terrorists -- secretary of state shall saying that turns the kissinger is an immigrant. fears, you don't know the value added at these people will bring to our country. besides this session on , as far asecurity

, you can tellt that, i was very happy. you have a great program. a lot of people in this country, we need to see more discussions like this. kimberly: in today's washington posts, jeff sessions is calling for more limits on legal and illegal immigration. overhaul for an the last immigration system. he said it allows violent crime and illegal activity. the speech comes a day after white house unveiled an

immigration proposal, highlighting terrorism perpetuated by immigrants in the country illegally. we are taking your calls on oh and found. dave on our in the end of line. -- independent line. caller: i wanted to comment about the wall. we don't need a wall. donald trump wants to with the wall there and waste millions of dollars, mexico will pay for it. they need to put the military on the border, let them patrol the border and use drones. ,hen will do on here illegally they should -- one and employee

hires -- when an employer hires them they should -- and people from daca, they should be allowed to use the. kimberly: what do you think about the fact there is an impasse both on border security and daca? --ler: they just go by corey party. they should do the right thing here people living here all their lives, it was they were public who stuck -- republicans who started this mess. they should come together and fix this problem. when you let it lawyers hire these people, if you raise the

wage to $21 in our, we would not have already. when they hire them and paid two dollars and our nation know to jail -- go jail. that's my opinion. peggy is all right, calling from virginia. what is on your mind? caller: these people talk about trump and all of his trips. he is not taking any salary. the only president i have not -- i have her have not taken a salary. you have anything in your agents, been doing something wrong, and trump asked why did you not arrest or? i was taught in school, if you

break a law, you go to jail. -- iu ought to fire him would have fired him on the spot. host: ann is calling on the democratic line pure good morning -- on the democratic line. good morning. calling out that the article you quoted about the administration wanting to change environmental regulations when it comes to the construction of roads. i really think it is going to be something that will be -- have a great, devastating affect to our infrastructure. in massachusetts, we have seen how construction companies who cheat with construction costs -- they went with cheaper materials instead of what is regulated. that people do not

understand the environmental regulations are meant to protect the people. i thought this government that we had, that we fight for, give our life four, is for the people, not for corporate america. not regulate these things. corporate greed is destroying this country. host: coming up next, part of our weekly spotlight on magazine series, we will take a look at a recent piece in "reason" magazine, looking at how drug-free zones around schools are being used to further prosecutions of drug charges. first, tomorrow, tune into an interviewwith with the number two republican in the senate armed services committee. [video clip] >> the national defense strategy says the united states' greatest

threat will come from russia and china. i am wondering if you have seen the -- >> there are things we cannot talk about right now, but you shadowking about the 2-3 j. i agree in terms of the greatest threat conventionally would be russia or china -- and china, i should say. as other three are important well -- north korea, iran, and isis. that is the strategy he is putting down as a priority. you have two different types of strategies. is north korea. that is the one that every person who comes to our meetings, comes to our hearings -- public, televised hearings -- they come up -- we are talking the military -- and they say we have the greatest threat we have ever faced, because in the case of north korea, kim jong-un is

totally unpredictable. they always use that word, "unpredictable." that is scary when you are unpredictable and have a weapons delivery system. let me say, because i know there are critics watching, yes, they have something in range of the continental united states. they will say, we do not know, on november 28 when they demonstrated that range, what kind of payload or if they had any payload at all. increased byif it the amount of a weapon, then maybe they could not have made range.nd of a the other thing is the reentry. when you are at a trajectory and, back in, -- and come back in, it is filtered -- difficult to come back with any accuracy at all.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is c.j. criminal justice reporter with "reason" magazine, here to talk about his recent piece about drug-free zones and sentencing. we are talking about it as part of our spotlight on magazines series. thank you for joining us today. guest: thanks for having me. host: what made you want to have a look at this topic in particular? guest: the reason we started looking into this is the tennessee legislature is considering shrinking the size of their drug free school zones. they considered it last year at are doing it again this year. several states have also done this. own laws existls in all 50 states, including the district of columbia. drugally, they enhance charges if you are caught with drugs near a school. they also include things like

libraries, parks, rec centers. the size of them -- they have a fairly large size. in tennessee, the size around schools is 1000 feet, which is about three city blocks from any school property or library. the recent tennessee is looking at reforming this is because a lot of criminal justice advocates and community activists say these laws are over applied and is proportionally -- disproportionately impact minorities. myth in your title is "the of the playground pusher." is that really a myth? guest: the reason these school zone laws came about is, if you grew up in the 1980's or lived around that time, you have this image in your head -- you can also this. the image of a shifty guy in a

trenchcoat handing a kid a bag of dope through a playground fence. that was the impetus of this law. the problem is that, as far as we can tell -- we asked several former and current prosecutors, anded at a lot of cases, the people getting prosecuted for these laws are almost never actually dealing drugs to minors. there was a service done -- survey done by the massachusetts assistant attorney general done in the 2000's. worth of at a year's drug cases and found exactly one instance of a drug deal to a occurred in an apartment at night, not actually at a school. are not actually a lot of drug dealers hanging out around schools. what these laws have actually done, our investigation found, is they tend to blanket whole areas in these drug free school

zones. they result in very long drug sentences for first-time offenders, and they do, indeed, have a disproportionate impact on minority communities, because these zones tend to cluster in low income minority neighborhoods because of the proximity of public schools and low income housing and libraries. host: we are joined by c.j. ciaramella of "reason" magazine talking about his piece. have regional lines for this conversation. in the eastern or central time zones, call (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, call (202) 748-8001. you mentioned tennessee. you took a look at tennessee. i want to read an excerpt from your article on that. "on july 9, two thousand eight, officers of the columbia, tennessee police department

arrested michael goodrum and charged him with possession of crack cocaine with intent to distribute in a drug-free school zone. but michael goodrum was not peddling dope to kids on a playground. he was not on school property. school was not in session. in fact, he was not in sight of a school." talk about how the prosecution under these school's own loss can take place even when they are not on property? of schools? -- of schools? guest: tennessee decided that even when take place school is not in session. traffic -- are at a in a traffic stop and are stopped within these enhanced areas and have drugs on you, you could get three years with possible probation or eight years, mandatory minimum.

in extreme cases, you can get up to 15 years mandatory minimum sentence, which is the same felony level as second-degree murder or rape. and you have the chance of early release, about 85% of time served with those crimes, but not with the school phone -- school zone offense. it is possible you serve more timein prison as a first nonviolent drug offense than a rapist. host: are there laws in other places of the country that impose penalties that steep as the ones you are talking about in tennessee or where these drug-free zone laws are used as frequently to prosecute crimes? exist in all 50 states. tennessee has among the harshest penalties, but these are frequent throughout the country. the size varies. alabama actually has three mile wide school zone laws. those are the largest.

the smallest one goes down to about 100 feet. they are more commonly seen between 1000 and 500. several states have performed their laws to shrink the zones down. massachusetts got it down to about 300. utah brought it down to 100. indiana, under governor mike pence, schrock theirs to about 500 feet -- shrunk theirs to about 500 feet. host: steve is calling from maryland. caller: how are you? guest: good. caller: we completed some work at the critique middle school in baltimore, maryland. while we were there, these middle schools would walk up and they would be smoking marijuana. the security guard was witnessed smoking dope with these children, right in front of the school, the school entry.

i do not have a comment about the school laws, but these children have a hard enough time going to make it anyway, and smoking dope right in front of the school is certainly not going to enhance their chances to be successful members of society. guest: well, i agree. i do not think anyone is arguing that doing drugs on school grounds should not be prosecuted. what advocates are saying is and the zones are too wide the penalties apply in far too many cases that there should be normal or mitigated circumstances. like i said, these cases are exceedingly rare, yet these laws wrapped up an enormous amount of criminal offenders and slapped them with higher charges.

the review i cited earlier said drug cases in school zones almost never involved minors. host: we have a call from west palm beach, florida. caller: good morning. i think your story is a little lame. i think you are nitpicking. i am listening carefully and you are admitting these are rare cases. the thing that gets me is when anyone gets on there and say "is proportionately" black or -- roportinately" this or that, come on. who is committing the crimes? if i go into a white neighborhood, i will arrest white people. the english so slanted. you can tweak these laws so that

if someone is selling drugs within a three mile radius to not a student, then tweak the laws to make it a criminal offense if it is not to a student. guest: sure. i can give the exact stats. tennessee, blacks make up about 69% of the population in prisons even though there are only about 10% of the population. in a middle-class suburb or rich neighborhood, you are farther away from a school or public service like that and are not caught in these overlapping drug zones. that is what is happening. knoxville is about 38% covered by drug-free school zones, but ast knoxville, which was historically segregated portion, is 58% covered. that is what i am talking about. host: i want to read another

excerpt from your piece, which gets to the history -- congress created the first drug-free zone law in 1970 as part of the federal copperheads of drug abuse prevention and control act. at this time, supporters argue the lost detergent children -- drugs of the children and reduced other criminal activity associated with drugs in or around schools. what have we learned since then and has congress acted since then to change these laws? they are stille in effect at the federal level. like i said, a lot of these states are starting to roll these back. utah used to have very strong drug-free school zone laws. they covered about 10% of the state and included things like movie theaters and arcades. washington state included bus stops. they found one that included bus stops, it basically covered everywhere in a drug-free school zone. since then, they have removed

some of that designation, because they saw the effect this was having. if you look at a map of this, it basically blankets entire town spirit i talked to an -- towns. aclu guy, and he said the only place not covered in new haven, connecticut was the yale golf course. host: darnell is calling from montana. good morning. caller: i am calling from st. louis. host: sorry. go ahead. caller: good morning. , innted to ask your guests his research, has he been able to find that, until recently -- 1980's,the 1970's and there has been an epidemic in city neighborhoods where a lot of these guys that got caught up in these drug laws were actually addicts seeking treatment but were denied treatment.

and they were just sent out to prison with 10 and 20 year sentences under this school laws own thing, where actually they were at home when they were a school.ver near also, has he had a chance to look, in his research, concerning this opioid crisis that has, up. and all of a sudden, since it is affecting white people, they want to create laws and are giving them treatment and giving them probation, every other thing they can give them before they go to prison. can he comment on that? host: let's give him a chance to comment. states have actually expanded their drug-free school zone laws to include opioid offenses. a response toing that, in some ways. but not a lot of states. it has not really caught on. we did find evidence of police using addicts as informants and paying them to set up drug deals, where they

would then charge the people with school zone offenses. there was one case that sticks out to me, where a 20-year-old a bag of psychedelic mushrooms to a police informant, who was making about $100 for every arrest she contributed to add a gas station at night. it turned out he was within 500 feet of the school, and he received a 15 year mandatory minimum sentence, and he had no prior criminal history. sort ofhow these laws work on a daily basis in tennessee. host: kevin is calling from oklahoma. the morning. morning.- good caller: good morning. is to, what we need to do we arerate those that afraid of, not those we are mad

at, vis-a-vis the drug laws. your comment on that? think what ii would say is that, in a lot of these cases, may be the best response is not sending somebody to jail for these enormous amount of years. bjectively looking at this, it is hard to save what the benefit is for is something somebody to jail for years on what amounts to minor cases. -- you and you have to imagine, like in the other case of the 20-year-old kid going to jail for 15 years, what is his life experience and skills going to be when he gets out at 35

with the life experience of a 20-year-old, after spending 15 years of hard time in state prison? those are things we have to consider with how these laws are applied. what do you see in terms of reforms being put in place by people who are troubled by how these laws are being enforced? are we seeing much in the state or local level? guest: the american social exchange council, a conservative group, passed a resolution urging states to reform their drug-free schools own laws. you are seeing a big bipartisan andition among conservative liberal and criminal justice at these and say do we really need these zones to be so big? you see a lot of community activism around this issue in tennessee, because there are a lot of affected families. there is momentum to change these laws. several states have.

host: how does the federal response play into all this? thehave reported how attorney general, jeff sessions, ordered federal prosecutors to charge the highest possible drug gentence possible or boostin enforcement of drug prosecutions. how does that play in to this? guest: it is more of a mindset. the memo was more a shift in attitude. we do not see a lot of these sort of school zone and low state and local they are not being prosecuted by the feds. so that sort of tough on crime mentality has an effect on how prosecutors do their job. a lot of prosecutors go out and want to get the toughest possible sentence. a schoolhy they charge zone offense during a traffic stop, because they have leverage and a plea deal.

it gives them a enormous leverage over defendants where they can from them with a 15 year mandatory minimum sentence. the national district attorney actually ran on a platform of not charging school zone offenses where there were not children involved. he actually saw these laws and not reallythis is how these laws are supposed to work, and i am not going to use these to prosecute people. host: mary is calling from california. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been a substitute teacher for decades. every friday, you could smell from theuana wafting bathrooms. it does not matter where they get it. they get it. it could be a home. it could be two miles away. for people to be losing their whole lives going to jail for 20, 15 years, whatever, it is a tragedy. they get out and have no jobs. they are homeless.

they have nothing they can do with their lives. they are just creating criminals , creating homeless people with no life -- for what? where you canlace pick something up two miles away, bring it into a school, and there is nothing you can do about it. host: what is your reaction? guest: you have to ask yourself, in the case of actual minors, do you want to send them to prison for a mandatory minimum sentence. the youngest tennessee inmate we found was charged at age 16 and received an eight year mandatory minimum sentence. guyher case, we found a selling cocaine out of his apartment and received a 15 year mandatory minimum, and he has missed almost his son's entire childhood, from kindergarten through college move in day. that is the human cost of these laws.

c.j. ciaramella -- i will get it right before the end of the segment, thank you for joining us to talk about this article as part of our spotlight on magazine series. you also formerly worked at was d and the-- buzzfee "washington free beacon." has there been any pushback? guest: they are popular among conservatives and among prosecutors. they give prosecutors immense leverage over defendants. press if it is really like these lost it when people try to roll them back, they tend to face the very registrable but effective rhetoric, which is look at state legislator so-and-so here who wants to make it easier for people to sell drugs to kids.

that response has scuttled several reform efforts. there is a bipartisan growing group among republicans who sort of see the problem with this, so you are starting to see more momentum. but it has been a little tough to get more of the law and order conservatives on board with this . that is what killed the bill in tennessee last year. host: mary is calling from martinsville, virginia. think these laws are an effective tool in the toolbox for law enforcement or whomever. where a city park, paid for by taxes, but was next door it became just a drug land. run from onewere town and moved

to the park, the people that ran the drug market. it affected what the park was built for. and i had to pay for it. so i think they are effective. host: what is your reactive -- reaction? guest: if they were affected, you would see some different in drug activity inside and outside the zone, but when you look at what actually happens, you do not. in a lot of cases, that is because these zones are not clearly marked. there is no sign outside that says "you are now entering a drug-free zone." that around schools in some places, but if you want to make these laws more effective, one way to do is put clearly marked signs, let people know -- now, you are entering a drug-free zone. if you commit an offense, you will get a very hefty time in prison. that is what a lot of advocates also say.

that these zones need to be more clearly marked he is in a lot of cases, when these zones overlap and create these sort of super zones, people do not even know they are in them, because the entire neighborhood is a drug-free zone. that goes to the heart of the problem. is that if an entire neighborhood is a drug-free school zone, it has no particular deterrent effect. linda is calling from greensboro, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? guest: doing great. caller: i like what you are talking, and you make a lot of sense, but my question is, as an advocate and a person who wants to help the change going about -- i know that the constitution says that when a person is locked up, they are not a slave, any color. but when they are in for an excessive number of years, aged

14 and 12 to 20, like you say, we are destroying a whole generation of people. gettinge go about congress to change these laws and these rules that have been in effect so long? personally, i think the constitution is outdated, and the judges they are putting in , we been so political lives are losing people. i do not care what color they are. aret: the judges' hands sort of tied in these cases because of the mandatory minimums. it is really incumbent on legislatures to reform these laws if they want to change anything. the prosecutors use the tools they have, and in a lot of ways, you cannot blame them. police charge people, police arrest and charge people based on what they find. legislator -- legislature that makes these laws and the legislature that

needs to change them. we are seeing more awareness around this issue because of what you were saying, which is the family's that have been affected here there are a lot of families in tennessee spending every day emailing their state orislatures, saying my son has been, who has been locked up all this time, for a long -- nonviolent drug offense because of the laws you past -- that is why we are starting to see this movement to roll back some of these laws. host: jackie is calling from arlington, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: good morning. how are you guys doing? guest: very good. host: what is your question? caller: my question is this -- the gentleman cited blacks as disproportionately affected by

drugs and drug use, so how do you get your gator? -- data. from 2006 to 2016 said drug use is higher among whites. that include -- when you say "disproportionately among blacks" -- host: c.j. was talking about prosecutions. you are correct. drug use is fairly equivalent among races. the disproportionate part is whose getting sentenced under these laws p.m. we found out blacks in tennessee were widely overrepresented in these prison sentences and, on average, receive longer sentences. that is the actual imbalance. like i said, part of that has to do with what neighborhoods are in these zones

and the proximities of schools and things like that. what the national district attorney told me was when we passed these laws, we unintentionally made drug offenses the same level as murder. that is sort of what happened. these towns in enhanced sentencing zones. and we have seen this disparate impact. host: john is calling from wisconsin. what is your question? caller: based upon what i could see, most of the people that will dabble in drugs, either selling it or buying it, they have no information about how it affects them or someone else. you never see any advertising on television concerning any of that stuff. that is my question. the opioid, i think crisis, for whatever reason, --

well, it is bad, but we see more public awareness around addiction and things like that in recent years. to get sortstarting of a more public health response, although there has -- response toe the opiate crisis, where we are seeing states pass things like making opioid dealer subject to felony murder laws if someone overdoses. there is both the public health response and a more cars through response. can: c.j. ciaramella, you find his work at reason.com and find him on twitter at cjc iaramella. up tomorrow on "washington journal," dakota would will -- dakota