"q&a" with irish journalist caitriona perry. then we open our foreign -- phone lines for "washington journal." ♪ announcer: this week on q&a, talks about her book "in america." brian: what was the origin of your book, "in america"? caitriona: i've been a correspondent here for the

national public broadcaster in rte, and i've -- seen amazing things in my time. in ireland, we have a great affinity for america and what goes on here, so people always want to hear about what is behind the correspondence life experience. i didn't intend to do that until i finished my time here, but given what happened with last year's presidential election, there was such a massive interest both here and at home in ireland. so much interest in what had happened, what had gone on. the question a lot of americans i think are asking themselves, last year was extraordinary, and so has this year been. i was approached by a publisher to write about behind-the-scenes ainer type guide about what happened in the 2016 election campaign, and what led the campaign to be what it was

and to help people understand that it is not all black and white. politics are not just red and blue. brian: how many americans in the u.s. have irish roots? caitriona: census figures between 30 and 40 million, so a put it massive figure. a vast number. you would be doing well to find a family in ireland that doesn't have family who have moved to this country. they often fall in love with an american and never come back to ireland. historically, it was through our great famine and through looking for employment that they came over here. there is a huge connection between the two countries and the two peoples. brian: close to 5 million people in the republic of ireland, 26 counties.

what is the big difference you have noticed between living in ireland, being an irishman in the united states? caitriona: you need a five hour special for that one, brian. they are two totally different countries, you can't really compare them. primarily starting from the point of view of scale. i'm a very proud irish person, but it is a small country. very sparsely populated. we just don't have the scale there would be here in the u.s. either with just employment opportunity or just diversity. i mean, purely in terms of climate in this country, you can have one part of the country bathing in sunshine and others buried under a foot of snow. we would not have that in an -- in ireland. i suppose the people are quite similar in that so many have

irish heritage. i have found americans to be extremely welcoming and friendly and open and polite. very well mannered. particularly here in washington, d.c., i mean i arrived not knowing anyone and i was very wrapped into the community. the irish community, but also the general american community. gosh, if we were to go into all the differences, we would be here all day. brian: you say in your books are some 44 million immigrants in the united states, making it the largest immigrant country in the world. what about in ireland? would we see a lot of diversity? caitriona: in recent times. you have heard of the celtic tigers. at thatwere booming, point we had a lot of immigrants coming to ireland from other countries, mostly from africa and eastern europe. many have made ireland their home. we went through a recession, and during that time many people would've gone back to where they were from or from a third country but we have turned a corner.

things are improving in ireland. our economy is back in a healthy position again. but we would have a much narrower history with emigration. we've traditionally been a nation of immigrants and so we're only now sort of seeing the cycling through where you have people are born in ireland but have parents from somewhere else. that is a relatively new new phenomenon on the scale that is on at the moment. brian: can you explain this to americans, that the prime minister in ireland is a gay man? given the nature of the catholic church and their attitude in some places toward homosexuals, how did that happen and what impact has it had? caitriona: firstly, i think that maybe the view that people have of ireland in america, particularly in some parts of the irish-american community would be far more conservative than the ireland i am from

actually is. we were the first country in the world to approve same-sex marriage by a vote of the people, by referendum. that shows you something. i think the fact that he is a gay man is irrelevant. he was elected through a system within his own party, not by the people as such. people elected him for the party based on him as an individual and what they viewed his policies to be, again from within that political party. so, you know, it made headlines all around the world, including here. it was in many of the newspapers and television networks. a gay man and one of his parents is also a immigrant, his father is from india. i think in a modern ireland, that is kind of irrelevant. he is just an irishman who happened to make his way to the top of his political party. brian: who did you write this book for? caitriona: this book was written primarily for i suppose an outside of america audience, and an irish or western european

audience who traditionally would probably align maybe with the democratic party. many would have been hillary clinton's supporters and struggled to understand how someone like donald trump, not a traditional politician, could itgeist the the ze way he did what was going on in american life and an american politics to result in what we have seen. but it is also i think useful for people in america as well who may be are used to living with certain communities. of course, the media here is quite polarized at the moment, so people are in a self-confirming media bubble. this sets out a different

viewpoint that people had not seen before. brian: it is in your book that the united states media does not operate like it does in ireland or europe because of a code of conduct. what is the difference? caitriona: in ireland, we are the public broadcasters, it is funded by a license fee that everyone in ireland has to pay. if you own a television, you have to pay the fee. we also get some commercial funding, but that is the primary income. that means you have to be neutral and objective, you cannot favor one party or another when it is an election season, literally the amount of time each candidate gets is monitored on a stopwatch to make sure everything is fair and no one is biased and taking one agenda or another. for me, that has been very different to notice here in america, particularly the television networks are so to the left or right. whatever anyone from the other side does is almost automatically bad and whatever

anyone does on their side is automatically good. we don't have that. we leave it to the voters to come to their own conclusion. and so, in rte, that is actually regulated by law. we would have the national union of journalists code of ethics, you cannot have a partisan opinion on things, particularly elections. brian: four years in the united states and you obviously traveled for this book, where did you go? caitriona: all over the place. i was trying to hit all 50 states, i got to about 44. this book specifically focuses mostly on the appalachian region and continuing up into wisconsin, michigan, including texas as well because obviously the border with such a big issue in the campaign. it mostly focuses on the states that donald trump specifically targeted, the swing states that maybe people thought were going to lean democratic, and as we know didn't. it's about meeting the people in those states.

we are well aware of the sort of core donald trump photo we see all the time, that this is about more of the swing voter, middle-of-the-road, independent voter, and what made them perhaps after decades voting democratic, to vote donald trump as an individual. brian: you wrote at the end of the book, meeting some of those voters, realizing they have justifiable reasons for being attracted to trump and remaining attracted to him despite actions of others consider intolerable or scandalous is key to understanding the trump phenomena a little better. how long did it take you to get that conclusion? caitriona: lots of traveling. as a journalist, you can't come to conclusions based on meeting for five people.

you have to get the evidence over a long time. what struck me was people view carte candidate, there were certain things he said that they did not like, there were certain things he said or did that they really loved and they were prepared to ignore parts and focus on the things that really matter to them. primarily, that was around economic improvement around and feeling listened to and cared about. i thought it was interesting, it was instructive for other politicians not just here but around the world, you ignore voter needs at your peril and you cannot take anything for granted. brian: you wrote this, it was the one and only time in my life i have been in soul possession of all of the facts of a story and see how it played out across the media from that vantage

point. explain that. caitriona: you're talking about the preface. brian: in the preface. caitriona: that is about my interaction in the oval office with president trump, which happened last june, when the president was making the call to m to congratulate him and he called me up to the desk and said a few words. brian: let me interrupt. let's show the video. let's run this and then you can further explain it. [video clip] >> we have a lot of your irish press watching us. where are you from? go ahead. come here. come here. where are you from? you are the irish press. >> i am from rte news. pres. trump: caitriona perry. she has a nice smile on her face. i bet she treats you well. [end video clip] caitriona: i've seen the video so many times.

that incident as it happened at the time, was 15 or 20 seconds, and i went on about my business as a journalist, but it was in the next 24-48 hours that it went completely viral around the world. that was extraordinary. the moment itself, i described at the time and still describe it as a bizarre moment. it was not a protocol, perhaps, but we know that this president does things his way and rips the rulebook. he did it in the campaign and the presidency, he does it his way. i have been in the oval office plenty of times, and usually when the president is on a call with a foreign leader like that, they are engaged in the call, not involving anyone else, particularly a member of the media. it was a surprise when he called me over, but he is the president of the united states and you are

in the oval office, so when he says, who are you, come over here, you sort of do not have any option but to do that. brian: what was it like? i think you said you had over 100 requests for interviews? caitriona: probably more. i had requests from all of the major networks and newspapers and magazines in this country, in ireland, in the u.k., australia, japan, nigeria, all across europe. pretty much any country you could name. which was bizarre. it was interesting for me as a journalist, to be inside the story like that and see what it feels like for someone inside a story when you have all of these requests for interviews and people -- you are not a very good journalist if people don't have your phone number, so i

had to turn my phone off for a while. people were reaching out through twitter, instagram, facebook, any possible way they could get hold of me. i at the time decided i was not actually doing any interviews about it because i was amazed at how polarized the event became. it was claimed by anti-trump people as meaning that one thing, and it was claimed by pro-trump people as meaning something else. i thought as a working journalist, someone who has to be objective and neutral at all times, anything i would say about that would be taken to feed one narrative or another and ultimately i would be the loser in that situation because it is so divided in this country right now that you are going to say something that would upset and offend massive amounts of

people. so, definitely one of the most extraordinary times in my life i have to say. to be sitting in your office and look up at all of the tv screens, cnn, fox news, whatever. they are all playing that video on a loop and having panels of people discussing high must have -- how i must have felt. what was going through my mind. the laughter on the clip there is actually not me, it is someone else in the room. people just said, i should not have been wearing a red dress. i did not know how to take a compliment. i should have said thank you. other people saying, the president is mean to the media, he is being nice to this person, he was being sexist or demeaning to this person. it seemed to bring out the full range of opinions and emotions in people around the world. brian: how often when you watch what people were saying, was in your mind that you were thinking

that was not true? caitriona: almost all of it. i'm a journalist who has been around the president and candidates for a long time, and he makes his own rules, he does his own thing. for something out of the ordinary to happen in the oval office, i did not pass too much heed of it at the time, i was more concerned about my deadline, the fact that the president was on the phone with our new p.m. what would they be discussing, a lot of hot topics between the two countries. tax reform, immigration and so on. the mere fact of the phone call was a big deal in ireland. that was all i was concerned about.

upon leaving the oval office with other members of the press pack we were kind of like, that , was odd, that was bizarre. ha ha ha, and off we went. the phone call was a big deal in ireland, that was all i was concerned about. i went to a game that night. i was engrossed in the game and not looking at your phone, and i came out into an area with a good phone signal, and my phone almost exploded. i thought, this is a bigger deal than i initially anticipated. brian: when did you know that you were going to be called back

to ireland to rte to be an anchor? caitriona: just about maybe november, end of october? we do four your terms as foreign correspondents. my term was coming to an end, and the question was what i would do next. i hadn't considered being an anchor before, i love being in the field. i got a phone call from the boss one day saying we needed to come home and take over the main evening news in ireland, which i'll become anchoring with another woman, the first time there will be two female anchors on rte news bulletin. one hour, monday to friday. people can tune in online and watch it, 1:00 p.m. eastern. that is my next step. it will be very different from what i have been doing in the u.s. for the last four years. brian: we are recording this at the end of 2017. when is your first day as co-anchor? caitriona: the eighth of january. i am leaving here and two days later i start my new job in ireland. no rest for the wicked, as they say. brian: i count in your book, you wrote about 11 states you went

to. i don't know if you could do this but i would like to go through the list, we can come back to any of it, but if us -- but give us something you remember from each of those states, starting with ohio. caitriona: wow. ok. ohio i remember being a beautiful state, actually. which is not something you usually hear about ohio. it was a stunning vista, but i remember being surprised, not unique to ohio, but at the levels of poverty in some parts of the united states, and in ohio, how drugs have run rampant in parts of the state. i really liked ohio and had great food there. great chili, actually. but i think if you don't travel through the united states as an outsider, if you just go to the

big cities on your holidays, you don't see what is really going on in the middle and don't fully understand the united states and you see small communities in ohio and heroin and fentanyl has taken a grip there. it is mind-boggling. people there are crying out for help. when you go into these communities, as an outsider, they tell you their stories. they need help. they need assistance. there was a story on the front of the washington post one day about having to bring in a refrigerated shipping container, such was the number of bodies from drug overdoses. it is difficult to square that with the united states being one of the wealthiest countries in the world, yet you have these

small communities that just need help. brian: from ohio down to texas. i know you talked to a border agent. what did you learn from that? caitriona: talking to the border agent was very insightful, actually, because you see a

different view of things when you talk to those guys that are patrolling the border every day and night. there is a humanitarian story there for sure. we have a similar situation in europe with refugees coming from syria and africa. the humanitarian situation in texas is heartbreaking. when people walk literally with the clothing on the back with small children for a month, sleeping on the sides of mountains to seek a better life and they are coming across the border and the conditions they are facing in all of that ahead of them, it is heartbreaking. then you talk to the border agents who talk about the criminal element, that coyotes as they are called, smuggling in people and drugs and guns. interestingly, they said it was a two way street, there are drugs and guns coming out of the u.s. into mexico as well. they feel overwhelmed. i know president trump has upped the number of funding and order guards this year, so it might be better than when i was there last year. but it is a scary situation down there at times. we were told not to be near the rio grande. of course, being tv journalists, we had to get a good picture about the story we were telling about border crossings. we went to this one part of the rio grande and there were shell casings on the riverbank. flip-flop in the

mud. there were footprints of people who had come through. there was some kind of gun battle. just as what is going on in a daily, nightly basis. it needs to be addressed. brian: what did the agents think about the idea of building a wall? caitriona: that it was absolutely bonkers. they said there's obviously a wall, a fence along one third of the border as it is. the agents i spoke to said it would not help at all. we saw general john kelly in his confirmation hearing, he was initially saying the same thing, that walls don't do anything because people are so determined to make a better life for themselves or these gangs smuggling in drugs and guns, they will tunnel under them build over them, find a way , somehow.

the border agents were not necessarily in favor of that. they were more in favor of a virtual wall, more funding for guards and immigration courts, the speeding up of that process, more equipment to patrol the border area. very few people were in favor of actually building a wall, that they thought it would solve anything. brian: let's go back up north to massachusetts. that is the famous irish-connected state. why did you write about that? caitriona: because people at home were interested in knowing how irish americans voted. there were be a traditional thatoint that irish people people would align themselves with democrats, harkening back to the jfk era. that is actually not true of all irish americans.

you learn that quickly from living here that irish americans are voters just like any others. some are democrats, some are republicans. many of them favored donald trump and many of them are still quite conservative voters and they would favor the republican party in particular and in this instance, donald trump because of his positions on certain things like family, abortion, and so on. smaller government, lower taxes, these kinds of things. that is why massachusetts was important, to understand how irish-american voters think. brian: you quote a man named lewis murray, a proud irish-american. who is he? caitriona: i met him at the convention. he is a guy whose heritage is irish and american.

he was not born in ireland himself, but he has plenty of family there and he goes back to visit. he was all in for donald trump and on the local organizing committee and all of that. he is a case study of irish-americans who were in favor of this wider republican message of smaller government, lower taxation, more conservative family viewpoints. brian: in the trial, they were described as homegrown terrorists who came to hate the united states. who are you talking about? caitriona: the tsarnaev brothers. that was another story about that that i reported on. the boston marathon bombing. boston is one of those cities that almost feels like it is part of ireland. i studied at boston university myself back in the day, and the bombing of the marathon was something that really resonated

with people. brian: there is a quote on that same chapter, you're talking about president obama, and you say he did not do anything for the irish. caitriona: so, there would be that viewpoint in terms of. brian: actually, that was lou's quote. caitriona: right, it was not me. brian: did anyone expect him to do anything for the irish? caitriona: no, he was not the president of ireland. i suppose there would be a sense among some irish-americans that there would be movements to do with immigration reform, that would be an issue we would care about. also in terms of tax reform, many multinational u.s. companies are based in ireland, creating a lot of jobs there. there are a lot of irish companies in america as well employing a lot of people here, too. i think his point there about obama not doing anything for the

irish was about the immigration situation, you know? situation, it you know? there are many, again, no one is counting this but there are estimated to be about 50,000 illegal irish people in the united states. there is the hope from family members back in ireland that there will be some sort of legislation to help normalize their status. brian: in the front and back of your book you have two photographs. i want to put them both on the screen. here is the first one. where is that and why is that on the back flap of the book? caitriona: the pictures on the book were put there by the publishing company. in terms of the production design.

that is not meant to be in a particular place, it is just symbolic of donald trump's rallies, and particularly the fact there are so many women in the image, and as you can see, they are very excited to see the president. and that was, i suppose, one of the major discussion points during the candidacy of donald trump where these attitudes that he harasses women. the access hollywood tape and all of that kind of thing. i think they selected that photograph for that reason, just to illustrate one of the points. brian: what about the one at the beginning of the book?

caitriona: that was to illustrate the fact that that was quite a bleak photograph but that is a gigantic poster of mr. trump himself. to highlight that america is not all these wealthy cities. there are people in the suburbs and smaller communities where people felt they were not being listened to. they turned to him for salvation. brian: i wanted to go back to how you describe driving into cleveland. i want to read how you describe driving into cleveland. you said it driving in from the airport you see the rustbelt. buildings falling down. structures crumbling. a theme throughout this part of the country. there is graffiti, litter, feral moreand probably, many vermin that are thankfully not immediately apparent. how often did you see that in the united states?

caitriona: frequently. brian: you see that in ireland? caitriona: yes, but not to the extent that i saw it in parts of the u.s. it is noteworthy how desolate the edges of some cities are. you would not see that in ireland. at all. what was insightful for me on that point was one time in pennsylvania where the mayor was telling me he cannot afford to pull down crumbling buildings. they do not have enough money to take care of those buildings. so instead of a level, grassy area, you see these crumbling structures and that is not something you would see elsewhere. o'riordan?

a member of the labour party, what does that mean? caitriona: we have several political parties in ireland. we do not have republicans and democrats, two sides like this. the majority of our parties are mostly centrist. the labour party is tying itself into the working man and woman. brian: in november 2016, he made a speech and said strong things on the senate floor. i want you to put this in context. >> america is a land of the faccists and we need to call them up and ask them if it is a -- if it is ok to still bring the shamrock on st. patrick's

day. >> i want to ask him how we are supposed to feel with this monster who has just been elected president of america. i do not think any of us should look back at this period and not say we did everything in our power to call it out for what it is. brian: how reflective is that of what the irish people think? caitriona: i have not lived in ireland in four years. i am probably not the best person to ask. there were be split opinions. there would be a lot of people who would not be in favor of president trump and a lot of people who are in favor of president trump as well. senator riordain has been vocal in his dislike for president trump and others would share that same opinion as they would

in the united states. the division of opinion here would be the same as in ireland. brian: what did you think about other media people, who would talk to you about their feelings. there is a different image about the media in this country than in years past. what were they saying privately? caitriona: if someone says something to me privately, i am not about to discuss it. brian: i do not mean their names. i mean what kind of things with a say to you? i mean what did they think of donald trump? caitriona: again, the range of opinion on president trump here is extraordinary. there are people who are for him and people who do not like him and everything in between. members of the media are human beings as well and are voters.

i am not a voter in this country. they would have their own private opinions and it would run the range. where i am from, as journalists, you cannot have an opinion like that. you cannot be a member of a political party and work for rte. but i would not be getting into what anyone had told me over coffee, that is their own opinion. brian: you went to wisconsin. what did you learn about the butter? caitriona: i found it extraordinary that some people in wisconsin put butter in their tea. which is not something we would do in ireland even though we drink a lot of tea and eat a lot of butter. there was quite an odd situation whereby irish butter was banned in wisconsin because it is

america's dairyland and they have very strict regulation in terms of regulating where things are processed. if irish butter had met the rigorous high standards in ireland and in line with eu regulations, it was not allowed in wisconsin. you would meet these people who had to travel over the border to illinois to buy their butter and smuggle it back in the trunk of their car. irish products are so popular but it is another example of how states differ so much in this country and there are so many regulations to try and get around in each place. brian: where do you see more regulation, ireland or here? caitriona: i'm not the regulations expert but it depends on the sector and on the industry. when it comes to food products and that kind of thing, we have very different standards there

in terms of the use of antibiotics and hormones. those regulations are a lot higher in the european union. i do not think i am the best person to answer that one. brian: in wisconsin you met a man named professor modechai lee. who is he? caitriona: i had a very interesting chat with him. i had a very interesting talk with him. he is a professor at the university of wisconsin. obviously, donald trump won wisconsin. it was one of three states that gave him the white house, including michigan and pennsylvania. what i felt was noteworthy is that hillary never campaigned in wisconsin at all. she did not go there once. i thought that was interesting given that --if you are asking the people of a state to vote

for you, you probably go there at least once. modecai lee, he disagrees with that theory. he was an interesting guy in terms of charting through a different election swing in wisconsin. the people there had not voted for a republican since the 1980's in a presidential election and yet they did this time. brian: in the wisconsin chapter talk about those farmers view washington, d.c. as totally disconnected from their lives. for them they have to actually work to make a living -- work as in hard, physical and manual labor and second, referring to them as fancy people. in washington, d.c., the average wage is $25.13 an hour and it is a majority black city. 44% of the population is white. here in wisconsin, the average

wage is $17.43. 87% of the population is white. while there may be some fancy people in washington, d.c., most are not. the disconnect was already there and draining the swamp made it more real. caitriona: this is an argument i heard everywhere i went. the slogan that president trump had of drain the swamp really resonated with people. it is not a tale unique to the united states. in ireland, people would say those ones up in dublin or if the european union, you say those people over in brussels. there is that common thing that legislators are disconnected with the people they represent. the president was effective in that campaign messaging and it seemed to strike with the people that would see their representatives and senators

going off on the train to washington, d.c. in a fancy suit and whatever they were doing was not helping them get jobs. and that they were not in touch with what was happening in their lives. brian: specifically you write that statement reflects another part of donald trump's messaging that was borderline genius. if cartoonish in content, drain the swamp. how often did you see that? caitriona: he is a marketing star and hey tv knows how to use the media and get messages across. he has done that throughout his career. drain the swamp, three words that are incredibly evocative. it does what it says. you get immediately what he is talking about. playing on that notion that washington, d.c. was built on a swamp and draining it means taking out the horrible people

who live there and replacing it with better people. whether voters believed that he could fulfill that or not, they were prepared to take a chance on it. that was something that came up time and time again. his messaging was extremely powerful and resonated with people. you go to a donald trump rally and he might talk for 45 minutes, he often spoke for a long time, and you talk with voters and they would not remember everything he said that -- but they remembered those chants and that struck a chord with them to something they wanted to hear and take a chance on. maybe if that comes true, things would be better. brian: what is your reaction to the actual vote talley on election night? caitriona: i was working through the night. as we all were. in ireland, there is a five hour time difference. you are broadcasting nonstop and

we had to stop and say hillary clinton did win the popular vote by 3 million people and donald trump won the electoral college based on 70,000 voters in three states. i remember broadcasting back home and i can hear the panelists saying hillary clinton might have a chance and i was doing the math going, no. he had a hill to run up and he ran up that hill. the electoral map was stacked against him. the polls were trending in one direction. there was a challenge but he succeeded. brian: were you surprised? caitriona: i was not remotely surprised. i had been saying do not discount donald trump winning.

it is not a clear-cut victory for clinton. even the polling -- it was all trending in her favor but by the time you got to a few days out from polling day, the margin of error in certain places was 3% and 4%. her victory margin was not much more than that. poll noters a reliable. a lot of the sample sizes in the polling is 1000 people. in ireland, a much smaller country, it is also 1000 people. how reliable is a poll of 1000 people in a country this large? and then you get into this idea of is polling being done on landlines and what native language they speak when the poolster calls. all of that. i think the polling industry got

a bit of a lag last year. based on the people i had spoken to, i was not remotely surprised. brian: let me ask you about being an anchor in ireland. one of the more recent figures we were aware of in this country was katie couric, when she had been an anchor for five years she was paid $75 million reportedly. is that the kind of money they pay in ireland? caitriona: no. not remotely. there is no one working in the irish media that is even paid $1 million. it is not comparable. brian: what else is not comparable about being an anchor in ireland? are you a star in ireland? caitriona: you would be very high profile. you are beaming into people's homes every evening while they're having their dinner. we are a much smaller country and have far fewer tv stations than you have here. brian: do anchors make speeches

for money? caitriona: they can but you have to get permission from your bosses. brian: do you vote? caitriona: as a private individual, yes. brian: do you vote? yourself? caitriona: you cannot vote from abroad so i was not able to cast my vote for the current parliament. as i was out of the country. that is that. brian: where did you grow up in ireland? caitriona: i grew up in dublin in the capital city. just on the south side. in the foothills of the dublin mountains which are the suburbs on the edge of the city. brian: what kind of a family did you come from? caitriona: i'm the eldest of three girls and both parents did

not work in the media. i'm the first one to go into that sphere. through a lot of hard work. nothing comes easy in this life. you have to work very hard if you want to get into journalism in ireland. you have to do all your apprenticeships. i always wanted to be a journalist as far back as i can remember. as far back as i can remember i , was writing poetry and novels and did little mock radio shows in my bedroom and all that kind of stuff. then i went to university and did my undergraduate in journalism. then, after i guess seven or eight years after graduation went back while working full-time to a masters in international relations part-time as well. i've always been fascinated by world affairs and geopolitics and that is why i wanted to come to washington as a foreign correspondent. if you're into international affairs and how the world works,

this is the center point of that. brian: where did you go to school in ireland? caitriona: i went to a sisters of mercy all-girls school. in ireland, it is different, most people go to public schools and it is changing a little but they would be same-sex schools traditionally run by various religious organizations. mine was at the end of my road but despite that i was late a lot even though my house was only three minutes away. brian: when did the journalism kick in? caitriona: as far back as i can remember. i was a small kid always writing stories and being fascinated with how the world works. if something was a rule, why is

it like that and who makes those rules and regulations and what happens in other countries. ireland is very small and has a immigrant history. we are very outward looking on the world. we are looking to what is going on elsewhere and maybe relations in australia or europe or america. i was a ferocious reader as well as a child and a teenager and just really loved broadcast journalism because of the immediacy of it. when i was growing up, it was not as immediate as it is now with the 24-hour news cycle. everything is on your phone. there was just one broadcast a day. i love that you get to see so much happen in the world. we get to have a front seat to history and that is an incredible privilege to have as your job. brian: where did you meet your husband? caitriona: he is a friend of a friend but he is an incredibly

private person. he does not work in the media and he does not like me talking about him in the media. you have to keep some things personal. brian: is he here with you? caitriona: yes. brian: and he is irish? caitriona: yes. brian: back to the book. the other states you went to like kentucky, virginia, north carolina, which one do you remember the most? and why? caitriona: that is a hard question. people often ask me which state you like the best and you cannot answer that really because they are so different and they -- virginia is not too far from washington, d.c. and what amazes me is you can drive for half an hour and you are in almost a different world. which is true of all of the united states. i love how diverse everywhere is

in terms of -- the architecture is different. the food is different. the population is different. the accents are different. kentucky is very like ireland. i really loved that. the rolling green hills. lexington is twins with a county which is horse mad as lexington is. that would be the center of our horse industry. lots of irish people in lexington. north carolina, the beaches are incredible. i was lucky enough to spend time in the outer banks, which is a stunning part of the country. brian: who is jason meister in new york? caitriona: jason is a guy who was a local organizer for the trump campaign locally in new york state for the primaries and for the general as well.

he was -- he would say he was all in for donald trump. very much of that wealthy, manhattan background where he was in the real estate industry. he and his father would know the trumps for a long time and he was charged with drumming up support for donald trump in manhattan. that was not an easy thing to do. we can see that from how he fared in the primaries in manhattan. he was a good example of someone who, the wealthier end of this country who were big supporters of donald trump in terms of what he would do to deregulate the financial industry. pro-business and decreasing taxes and all that.

it's we have seen some of that coming in already with the new tax law. brian: what is the american dream? caitriona: the american dream -- i do not know what it is for americans but for non-americans there is this insatiable hope and optimism and positivity to do better and that your kids and grandkids will do better than you. when you travel to america, this is the american dream. this is what you hear people describing to you. one person i met said she was the first person in her family to finish high school and she was going to make sure her son was the first person who finished university and she would do everything she had to do to make sure he could be a doctor or lawyer or whatever he wanted to be. i think people are striving for that and it is not happening in the united states. statistics show that three at five people are the same level

of income and wealth that they were in 2008. that is a long time to not make slight improvement on your life. people i met had been democratic voters and were now siding with donald trump because they felt they were left behind. that they were not going to retire or going to die better off than their parents were and they were not going to be able to get a better life to their children. that goes against that thinking that is in the spirit and soul of americans. brian: what is your reaction when you hear our politicians say america is the greatest country in the world? caitriona: i think many people in their own country say that. in ireland, we say it is the greatest country in the world. in many ways, america is great. why else do so many people go through so much to come here and

try to make a better life for themselves? you know, i think and there have been surveys to back this up in the last few months that maybe that reputation and that viewpoint is diminishing now by virtue of recent policies here. things like not going along with every other country on earth in terms of the paris climate accord and policies toward the middle east perhaps. you know, i think americans are entitled to say they are the greatest country on earth but so can every other nation. brian: looking back on your experience of four years and your work on this book, it is -- when you go home and someone says to you describe to me very briefly why the people that voted for donald trump voted for him, what would you say? what are the main reasons? caitriona: i would say there are a couple of reasons. one, he said he would bring back the american dream and make life better for them.

and that he would change things in washington. again, drain the swamp and improve things. also, because he did not stand for anything in particular he , could stand for anything that you wanted him to stand for and ultimately a lot of people are single issue voters. he was listening to them. he said he would fix the economy and bring back jobs and that is what everyone wants. they want to be able to provide for themselves and their families as best they can. if you feel beaten down, you will take a chance on someone offering you something new. brian: if you ever had to come back to the united states and live again, which state would you live in? caitriona: i would love to come back to washington, d.c. but with the job i have, if you can get out of the bubble, if i was going to check out of life, the

beaches in california are pretty amazing. kentucky, also a fabulous place. texas.y liked i have had the best of both worlds. i got to live in the city that lives on politics but i got to travel around every week and visit almost every other state in this country and to meet the great people and experience what there is to offer. brian: the name of the book is "in america: tales from trump country." our guest has been caitriona perry. thank you very much. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: for free transcripts or to give your comments about

this program, visit us at q&a.org. programs are also available at c-span podcast. ♪ announcer: if you like this q&a with caitriona perry, here is another you might enjoy. jd vance on his memoir on his life growing up with a poor a poor white family, with roots in appalachia. and robert costa talks about the 2016 presidential campaign and how that compared to the 1992 campaign run by businessman ross perot. you'll find those on c-span.org. here's a look at our live

coverage today. on c-span, homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen talks about combating terrorism. the house comes in, followed by .egislative business several bills on the agenda, including one to increase protections for young people and amateur athletes against sexual abuse. at 2:00 the senate is in to take ban bill that would abortions after 20 weeks. on c-span3, we get a preview of tomorrow's state of the union. later, foreign members of congress -- later, four members of congress talk about the current political climate. coming up on today "washington journal", will take a look at

the week ahead with arlene super bowl and out weaver. nina olsonadvocate talks about the new tax law and its implementation at the irs. ♪ host: the u.s. capital, the site of president trump us first u.s. state of the union, in which he is expected to take credit for the growing u.s. economy and make a pitch for infrastructure funding. you can watch c-span's coverage starting at 8:00 tomorrow night and you can go to www.c-span.org for more information. this is "the washington journal" 29th.nuary immigration is the topic. rate your party's efforts on immigration. could be the debate on daca, dreamers,