[inaudible] [indiscernible] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] now, a look at ways men can play a role in the "me too" movement, and behavior that can help prevent sexual assault. this is one hour and 20 minutes. absolutely proud we are to join with pro mundo and new america

foundation to host this discussion, men in the me too movement, moving from silence to solidarity and how do we do that? i think all of us in this room would agree that we are in the middle of something pretty darn historic. but just how historic i think remains to be seen. this could be the beginning of the end of a culture of silence, of fear, of complacency. this could be the beginning of the end of violence against women, one of the most destructive and universal challenges we face. i think it's too early to see where this momentum right now with the me too movement is going to lead, but the one thing we do know is that we're going to make sure more women's voices are heard and more women's rights are protected, absolutely. you know, when vital voices was started 21 years ago, we didn't have the allies or the awareness that we have today. today we have stronger laws and louder advocates.

but violence against women still persists. in fact, many people would believe looking at the numbers that things are getting worse, not better. why? why in 2018 do we still face this major problem? why? because violence against women is tolerated. it's accepted. it's culturally condoned. so really we're not going to be able to address the issue of violence against women until we change culture. men are absolutely critical in that equation. what we've known at vital voices for a long time is that we are never going to get from where we are today to where we want to be in the future without men as our partners and allies. and i'm so thrilled to have so many of these great men with us here today. in fact, each year vital voices honors extraordinary men with the voices of solidarity award, and we actually have three of those extraordinary guys here who have really dedicated their

lives, 20, 30 years to ending violence against women. we have don mcpherson with us we have don mcpherson with us today, one of our first honorees. gary barker, of course from promundo, and jackson katz. we are so thrilled to have our honorees with us. these are men i really feel are helping us deal with the silent majority. the majority of men are nonviolent, but they're also silent. so how do we move from that silent majority to voices of solidarity to truly create change? launching us in this first discussion i'm going to turn it over to my great colleague cindy dyer. she has dedicated her life to eliminating violence against women. ms. dyer: thank you so much, elise. we are so excited, thank you all for coming out here on a cold

friday morning and for joining us as we begin a discussion about what is driving some of this sexual assault and harassment that we see and how can men and women work together to move forward to change that pattern? i have got an amazing panel. immediately to my first left is ms. summers who is the national organizers of the women's march the to her left, gary barker president and ceo of promundo. jackson katz, professor and founder of nvp strategies. and jessica raven, executive director of collective action for safe spaces. i'm going to start off the conversation and encourage all my other panelists to jump in with gary barker. gary has been a long-time advocate in the engagement of men's engagement to end violence against women and he and his promundo has conducted extensive research against violence.

so i'm going to start off with you, gary, and if you can tell us based on your experience and knowledge, what do we know about what drives sexual assault and harassment? mr. barker: well, first, i get to say that promundo believes in data and research so we're kind of about making facts great making facts great again, particularly important in this moment, which is to say what is it that -- what do we know about it as we got lots of blogs going out, lots of conversation, what do we know that drives sexual harassment and sexual assault? and the simplest answer is the way that we raise our sons. this thing that we call manhood, sometimes we call it toxic which i think kind of takes us down a negative, it kind of doesn't give much space for men to do other things. and that's not just a vague thing. we can measure it and we can look at whether we're making changes to improve. so we've -- some of you know we

did a study together with acts last year called the man bucks and we included questions there about sexual harassment. so what do we know what drives it and which men are carrying it out? we talked to random samples of young men in the u.s., u.k., and mexico. what is sobering to say is it's not about toppling a few men in power. we found in the last month 20% to 1/3 of men ages 28 to 30 carried out some kind of harassment or bullying against women or same-sex peers. it's not a random thing. it's important to say what elise did, that the majority are not. but it's important to say that's in the last month how many young men are carrying out some kind of harm, most of it sexual and most of it gender based, with that frequency. which young men? it wasn't education, ethnicity, it wasn't urban rural, or much difference across the three countries except the u.s. young men did it more, so that's also a little bit sobering. yes, more. you can see why mexico wants to build a wall, because our young

men were the ones showing the most rigid norms about this. which young men? the single largest factor was if you bought into a rigid tough-guy version of manhood you were more likely to harass. so those of you who like grass, we did this quintiles, if you're in the farthest tough guy quintile, you are five times more likely to harass than the guys who are not in that box. so what this says is these norms are created every single day and it's the silence around them. if we're not talking to our sons we know that they're happening out, whether it's online porn, whether it's male peers who say this is how you fit in, this is how you be the cool guy, we know what it takes to break that cycle. so i think we're sobered by how big and how powerful that version of manhood is and yet we've got a lot of voices in this room who know what we can do to change it. what do we know about what breaks that cycle and changes

those norms? ms. dyer: the description that gary has given for the other panelists, is that consistent? i know that many of you have done research or have anecdotal information from your direct work. is that consistent with your experiences of what is driving or empowering young men to that's one way that, you know, one behavior that we can look at. and also i think a lot of it is

driven from what comes out of pain is rejection. ms. dyer: i'm going to ask my next question is actually for jessica down at the end. we are so excited to see more men taking a stand in this movement, whether it be from wearing buttons at the awards ceremonies or speaking out, we're so happy to see more men. you can talk with us about in your experience what is it that you think not only we like to point or what are men getting wrong, but also what are men getting right and what do you want to see more of? >> yeah, thank you for this question. i think that -- well, in terms of what we're getting -- i think all of us what we're doing better now is believing in supporting survivors, not just men, but people are starting to pay attention to the experiences of survivors. i think that what we often are getting wrong in this national conversation on sexual violence

is getting stuck in the gender binary. so this idea that -- basically i think that when we divide the genders between, you know, like it's men's violence against women, what happens is we leave out experiences those who are most marginalized, trans women of color, homeless survivors, nonbinary people, in terms of what men are getting right, i think there are a lot of men, queer and trans men, so i think straight men can learn a lot from them. we can't talk about gender straight -- we're talking about gender straight men and often white women. and that, even in using the term sexual harassment, i've started to move away from that term because it doesn't include often

the experiences of transwomen of color that i work with in the community or muslim women who do experience sexual violence but it's broader than that, it's not about sex, it's about power. and that manifests in different ways for different communities. so transwomen of color are often be misgendered, experiencing employment discrimination, being excluded from public spaces. muslim women that i've worked with have been harassed about hijab. so by narrowing the conversation to sexual harassment, we also narrow our idea of what the solutions might be so we don't think about housing as a solution to sexual violence because we're not thinking about homeless survivors. we don't think about employment as a solution to sexual violence because we're not thinking about, you know, black transwomen who are excluded from many places of employment and then turning to sex work to survive and then experiencing high rates of police sexual violence. so i think that's what we i think can do a lot better at,

centering the experiences of marginalized communities so that we can broaden our solutions and develop comprehensive solutions to sexual violence. ms. dyer: i hear, gary, that was similar when you were discussing the research that you had done, you specifically noted that the harassment was occurring to women but also you said to the lgbt community so i can see the consistency and similarity in jessica's comments. mr. barker: sure. and i think, you know, yonta was saying that as well, i think this is a challenging topic to bring up, which is that we know that another driver of men's use of violence is the violence they've experienced or witnessed growing up. and in saying that, we've got to be very humble and thoughtful about not trying to say men are the victims here after all. i think that's where that conversation sometimes goes. but i do think to acknowledge the humanity that's often beaten out of boys of all sexual

orientations growing up in far different ways needs to be acknowledged as part of this. i'm glad you brought up the trauma issue. that's a huge driver. the violence that we carry out as men is the violence that we have learned and often had happen on our bodies. if you ask boys and men about men's violence, all of us have an experience that we also feel i am afraid of that too. in saying that too we have to say it's not the same as your experience of that violence, and i think that's a tough one for us to hang on to and be humble about. ms. dyer: you know, as a perfect segue, neal, you and your colleagues that men can stop rape have been working directly with young men, the people that we are in fact talking about. and i am so -- what a valuable perspective that is. and i'm so curious to know is, you know, what do the young men, these individual men that you are working with, what do they feel about this movement? how are they reacting to this movement? mr. irvin: yeah, i think it's a great opportunity to build on what's been said.

i think our young people and for those of you who may not be aware, men can stop rape through our men of strength club and through our women inspiring strength and empowerment program for our female peers, meet weekly with young people not only here in washington, d.c., but 19 states and we do it through middle school through post secondary. for us, the conversations that are being had are very similar that older adults may be having. it makes sense to them intellectually. but for us what is even more important, it makes sense to them emotionally that they get -- we were talking last night at dinner that the younger people really grasp not only the intersections of all of this violence, but the impact it's having on their own lives and their friend's lives. so they're really motivated during this time to speak out. you know, young people are very empowered to talk and share their positions. so for us at men can stop rape we're very excited to see it because it does support the importance of primary prevention, it does support the messages that we've been trying

to promote. it does promote a message of inclusion, and it is an invitation and it's male positive. i mean, it's celebrating the fact that boys do like and want to be boys and that is not anti someone else, anyone else, but allows them space to figure out how they can contribute in the work. so we're very pleased with that because we feel that they are getting both kind of healthy body healthy mind approach to responding to this for a lifetime, not just for a season. >> i think one of the concerns because we feel that they are is that because there are so much of a focus on women and, as you said, sort of this negative men are bad, men are doing these bad things that we don't want to have young men and boys say, well, no, this is -- this movement is not for me because it's not about me. i'm a good -- you know, we won't want to turn them off. i'm wondering if any of you in your work are seeing men or young men and boys respond negatively to this focus on

young women. jackson. mr. katz: clearly one of the things you have to deal with as an educator or trainer or somebody who engages men and young men and boys across the spectrum, racial and ethnic spectrum, is guys do come to these conversations often defensive and they think they're going to be lectured and told what not to do. none of us who have been doing this work, i can speak for those of us that i know and certainly to my colleagues to my left and right, we never do that. that's not how the good education works. you engage people where they're at. you engage people, young men, you talk to them about how sort of cultural ideas how manhood have impacted them negatively as well as contributing to them harming other people. if you make those connections, michael kauffman wrote an article 31 years ago called the triad of men's violence. it's men's violence against women, men's violence against other men, men's violence against themselves. all three are connected. people don't make these

connections normally, but have you rape on college campuses where young men are raping their fellow students, women, men, and others. but you also have men over 50 committing suicide by gun. gun violence is a huge problem in this country. some people don't even realize that the majority of gun violence is suicide. and older white men are the primary category of men who commit suicide by gun. in other words, violence turned inward. the same system that produces young men who rape women on college campuses is the same system that produces older men who take a gun to their head. when you talk to men about these kind of things and make these connections, a lot of men realize this isn't just aboutal -- about all truism although that's important, it's also about self-interest. it's about taking care of themselves and their buddies. when you broaden the conversation that way, a lot of men relax, it's like i'm not being bashed in this moment, i'm actually being challenged in a way to look inward, to be introinspective and take that and that new self-awareness and

do something about it. that's the other piece. it's important that men have personal self-reflection and critical self-awareness and personal growth but it can't end there because with privilege comes responsibility. so we have to have growth personally and then take whatever have you learned about yourself and others and then go out and change the world, if you will, and change the spheres of influence that you have in your life. whether it's young boys in the peer cultures or powerful men in the highest pinnacles of power and authority. >> jackson, i appreciate this. this movement there are is not your first rodeo. you've been in this movement a long time and you've seen sort of phases and cycles, so you've seen this before. and i want to ask you, you know, based on the really the lengthy work that you have done, what is the way for us to -- what are some things that have really worked as a way to make sure that men feel like this is a

movement that they can join rather than a movement that is being pushed on them? and you mentioned one of those ways, but i'm wondering what are the best -- how do we get them to feel more involved and more engaged? mr. katz: that's a great question. i think that this has to be understood as a leadership issue and a social justice leadership imperative, period, end of sentence. for example, on college campuses where i worked for years and decades, people still to this day organizers try to figure out how do we get men involved? it used to be when i was young we would have table tents and posters put up on the wall and we'd be asking people to come to a meeting. now the technology has shifted obviously and there's text messages and all kinds of social media. we're going to have a meeting we hope some young men who are interested are going to come to this event. i'm done with that. i was done with that as a 20-year-old. if this is an imperative, if college campuses are interested in saying we're going to end violence, it can't be an optional thing where we hope men will come. it has to be organically built

at institutional practices at all levels that starts from the top. i think we have to make clear this is a leadership imperative. what i mean by that, at every level of institutional power, because this isn't about individual behavior, this is about institutional priorities and follow-through and accountability. at every level, if you're a principal of a high school, think of all the men and women obviously and there's men and women who are the principals of high schools, but there's lot of people who are men who are the principals of high schools who haven't done anything about these issues. they haven't used their platform in any way. meanwhile, we know from decades of research and gary's research is cutting edge as well as other research that shows this. we know that something over 50% of rape victims are raped by the age of 15 can which means that high school principals are presiding over kids who are already survivors of sexual violence, teen relationship abuse. .e know this why aren't those principals and

superintendents initiating mandatory program, training for all the educators, all the coaches in those systems, why isn't eduation built into the educational on the curricular side not just object student affairs side if we know this and if we as a society are taking this seriously? so i would say the key thing is institutional leadership. in the military there's a concept that's called command climate is response ability of guess who -- the commander. not the troops. individual troops have responsibility for their behavior, but the commander has behavior, but the commander has the responsibility for setting the tone, for making accountability, follow-through for survivors, and for creating a tone. and that's in the corporate world where it's tone, the corporate ceo's and the directors and managers, they're ultimately responsible for what happens. those people need to be challenged. if it becomes clear that it's an institutional priority, then other men will follow. because i think a lot of men have been waiting and eager for this conversation, a lot of young men. they don't know it necessarily and like i said earlier they're often defensive. but if you get them through the door, you can begin the process. but you have to get them through the door.

mr. irvin: may i just -- just to support everything that jackson said, particularly we see it in schools, urban, rural, doesn't matter. it does start with how do we institutionalize this in terms of dosage? and i thing i said last night and i say all the time, we would never teach algebra once a week. and around these issues we wait until they're either a senior about to leave for college or during orientation. and so just to support everything that jackson said, if we do not start training principals, school boards around how to institutionalize this and to help them understand, and i know there's the research out there to support this, the academic performance will be better. so we'll still get to algebra and calculus and all that. we have to create an institutional norm that this is a priority from k-12 and into postsecondary and then it will transfer into the workforce as a cultural expectation. and as jackson also said, we can look to the military for things they still need to improve, but

there is a structure there about leadership taking responsibility for the tone that is set. and wherever we have seen the most success, the most impact, male, female, however identified, when young people are being prioritized and the environment they're in is being prioritized as one that is equitable and safe and i exclusive, we see the production of it go through the roof. >> yes. >> jessica. >> i wanted to build on that, jackson and you are right there it it starts with leadership and it has to start young. i am a mother of a four-year-old boy who likes to wear dresses. we were on a plane of the other day looking through a magazine and we saw a picture of what appeared to be a man wearing a skirt. and he said, boys don't wear dresses. i said max, that is strange. you were wearing address the other day. you like to wear dresses? and he said, yeah, i'm a boy.

somehow even though he has been wearing dresses all his life, he has been learning this is not ok or appropriate. it does have to start with leadership. i also think we do have power to change those storms. -- norms. i am a believer in bystander intervention. calling out everyday sexism and isms in our everyday life. institutionalizing it at a young age. it is not really helpful to talk with the men and boys as perpetrators of violence. it is not helpful to say, stop raping, stop harassing women. it is helpful to tell them what they can do. intervening is something they can do, to stop the violence of other people and harassment of people. and going through bystander intervention training not only helps men or people who are

likely to cause harm to intervene, to stop harms from being caused, but also builds empathy and makes them less likely to engage in the behaviors themselves. >> once it becomes a leadership problem, it is already a learned behavior. i think to stop this issue and be more progressive on these harassment issues, we really need to start at the adolescent age. at like 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, we need to be teaching our children what correct socially accepted behavior is. it all goes down to, be kind to one another, keep your hands to yourself. your body is your temple. you don't own anyone else's body and you don't have the right to put your hands on anyone else. so i think that, you know, it's great to say that leadership needs to take control and be more progressive and speak up, but i also think that in our

homes, our parents need to be responsible for the way they raise their children. because i don't think that you go to school and you learn how to beat up kids. i think you have already learned that behavior and it comes from your society. it is something you learn as early as 4, 5, 6, 7. >> can i comment on that? the parent training issue? i think absolutely agree and i think both jessica and yonta are saying this with the. we need to do this in school and it can be alger -- they can be voluntary. we also don't make algebra voluntary. so we say this is stuff you need in the world to be a citizen, we expect this of you. we're not negotiating about gender equality anymore. we have said, we believe in it, you must come into this world living it. another piece where we need to think about institutionalizing this is parent training. parents need support to do what we do.

we're making interesting progress with watching corporations taking a leave it where our government does not. we nudge you toward, we make obligatory, certain types of parent training and we support you in that role. because i think that's a crucial moment of early childhood whether are you watching gender equality modeled in the home? or are you watching violence modeled in the home, is such a huge driver. so i think it's school, i think it's parenting, all the big institutions. i think it has got to be part of the workplace. we don't ask you to do your timesheet. we have to say this is nonnegotiable, we're not asking for volunteers. i love your notion, we are not trying to recruit young man, they are a captive audience we are making do this in a nice, boy-positive way. >> just building on something that jessica had said, i'm one the architects of the bystander approach and i have been

frustrated the last number of years in the united states, how many people have taken the social justice and feminist foundations of the bystander approached and moved it away towards what i would refer to as a glorified nightclub bouncer model, where if you see something, say something. in other words, not diving deep into the gender norms that underlie the abusive behaviors but talking about how do you intervene at the point of attack. and gary's work and a lot of other researchers and activists globally, we have a consensus among the men doing this work that the most powerful effective work in engaging young men and boys in gender violence prevention, that's sexual harassment, assault, domestic and relationship abuse, is what is called the gender transformative work, giving boys and men that opportunity to think critically about the ideologies of manhood, underlies most of the abusive behavior that boys and men engage in towards men and women and towards themselves. if you don't do the gender transformative work, just teach skills for intervention, after that deeper dive, it's just

superficial. it is a waste of resources. we have enormous resources in the united states and we have progressive programs in countries in the global south that are doing more progressive work in this matter than we are in the united states, it's pathetic. i also say i can't let this moment go. at the white house right now in the popular conversation right now is the discussion about domestic violence and what's the difference between a guy who's a really good employee and he's a good worker but he's got a side to himself that is, you know, a dark side in his personal life. women in the battered women's movement and then men in the battered women's movement have known about this for 50 years at least, that it does not matter. a guy could be a great performer at work, he could be a great professional and be abusive. it's like, by the way, where are the voices of women and men in the domestic violence movement on cnn today? it's like you have the same talking heads talking about domestic violence because they read an article in huffington post or something and now they're the experts on domestic violence. why don't they bring in men and women who work with abusive men

who have incredible insight into abusive behavior? why isn't that part of the cultural conversation at this moment? it would be a way to elevate the work of domestic violence folks who have been at it and working at high stress jobs for decades without very much cultural recognition. now it's right in the white house and they should be on tv, they should be interviewed. the insight that they have is incredible. there's a disconnect that many of us have going to our professional conferences where you're surround by people who are really smart, women, men, others, smart about sexual assault, harassment, abuse. then you turn on the tv and have you talking heads who barely know anything about the issue and they're considered experts? give me a break. one of the things we need to do about this moment is taking advantage of the cultural spotlight and pushing media to cover these issues more deeply and bring them to people who actually know what they're talking about. >> well, you know, as the national organizer of the women's march certainly knows a thing or two about inspiring and

organization. tell us, how do we inspire and organize around this topic? and make it be really lasting and meaningful? organization. >> how we organize around things, we usually organize around things when there is a crisis. in the women's march we were able to organize around what many felt was a crisis in our country. and right now we are experiencing a crisis of leadership and i think that through popular conversation, popular television, popular music, popular movies is how we get the message out there. but i am one that always feels that organizing anything you do has to start at the local level first. it has to be a conversation that starts at home, in the community, regional, and it has to be national and

international. i think that when you have people who are experiencing these horrible atrocities to their person, you don't want to exploit them, you want to give them a platform, but you also want people to feel like they can relate to what this person is going through. so to organize around this topic we need music that says violence to women is bad. we need people to stop using words that are negative like the b-word and calling women words that are unfavorable. and i don't like to repeat those things, but we all know what i'm talking about. and i think that we also need to make sure that leadership, like you said, which is very vital to this conversation, that leadership is projecting a body positive kind of, projecting a body-positive conversation, and that we all understand that violence of any kind is unacceptable.

until we get somebody like a very popular person, let's say princess diana for example. if princess diana had experienced some kind of sexual violence, the whole world would be outraged. we usually organize around crisis. but we have to be smarter and deeper than that and we have to be able to organize it in our jessica, i'm -- communities first. >> jessica, i'm going to give you one last comment and then if we have we may have a couple of minutes to take a few questions from the audience. >> i just want to echo what ianta: -- what ianta said. it is not just the talking heads on tv that we need to uplift, the change happens on the grassroots level and we need to uplift the experience of survivors. survivors of the experiences and we can learn a lot when we listen to them and listen to them as to what we need to build safety. >> one of our main focuses is developing more survivor advocates and giving them

leadership opportunities and recognizing their true expertise. that's music to my ears. are there questions that we have from the audience during the last few minutes of this panel? yes. >> hi, i'm avery and i'm a senior at the george washington university. also, i love vital voices. my question is how do we ensure i guess for jackson katz, how do we ensure the actual quality and content of this educational material is good? because i'm gone through all these things and i've gone through trainings and they haven't been comprehensive or effective. i've spoken to men after who didn't feel like they learned a lot from it. how do we ensure the content is quality? >> that is a great question. it is a work in progress. some of us are meeting in d.c. this week talking about how we can use our decades of

experience that what we know works with men and young men and try to figure out how to translate that into broader policy around the country. there is variable education going on, a lot of non-education. most high schools have zero on these matters. and the ones that do are mostly inadequate, to be quite blunt about it. so we have a long way to go. part of the way to ensure quality is to get the right people in the room making policy decisions, as well as following through. how do you evaluate the effectiveness of a prevention program? that's a big question. how do you evaluate what you are preventing if you are preventing it? some of this is long-term social change and gender norms change. how do you measure that? when i was in high school, i had never met and openly gave person. i met many gay people, but never an openly gay person. i am old, but not that old.

i am saying, a change happens. there is an organized movement, an lgbt movement, which has been transformative. if you look at the demographics, the younger population of the united states, for example, is heavily supportive of a full spectrum of lgbt rights in a way that's distinct from the older demographic population, if you will. that's because the change has happened. the change does not happen passably, it happened actively, through movements, engagement. i think if we do that then overtime we will see the change and you'll be able to measure it. but it's all political. by the way, everything that gets

measured, because people want to get funded and you have to prove your efficacy through funding sources, and that's all political. that's all political. because how you define your success matters in terms of whether you're going to get funded. and it's difficult to measure social change if you're actually having an effect. >> you operate 19 states, you are doing this very thing. >> i would say too, this is where gary's research is so important and michael and donna when they come up and obviously jackson. when you say comprehensive, if we could make a half day, a three-day, an hour-long workshop comprehensive enough to make it so the behaviors and the emotions connected to what this work requires of us for a lifetime, we probably would focus on world peace. when you talk about comprehensive, you're literally talking about in moments men can stop rape right now, partner with our d.c. rape crisis center to reposition the coalition work here in the city. so we're talking about people's lives who are in crisis when we maybe first meet them. then by the time they start their healing they're going to need a job, they're going to need training. so comprehensive is a really important word. so the vetting of the content of the curriculum, depending on what we are trying to accomplish, goes back to what i said earlier about mandating how we teach this.

by the time you get to george washington and one of our club members is also an alum. by the time you step to that campus, you should be entering your 13th year of training in this issue. that's what comprehensive looks like. it's a really challenge for us to figure out how to be as strategic as we can with the resources that are available to really promote what comprehensive intervention training requires of us. >> the one thing we know for sure is that it is a lot easier to raise a nonviolent boy than to change a violent man. >> so i am so excited to be able to turn this panel over to the next panel.

first, let me thank our amazing panelists. [applause] thank you so much. our next panel is going to take a closer look at how to work with young men and women on these issues, focusing on the campuses, the 13th year of training. happy to introduce the net -- next moderator, haley swenson, thank you so much for being here. and thank you to our panelists. [applause] >> thank you for your patience, it will be just a minute. [indiscernible]

[indiscernible] >> we are fortunate to sit here with amazing activists and scholars today. we are focusing on the way in which sexual assault for years has been considered a campus issue. that when we hear about violence against women, it's often with the shocking statistic of one in four to one in five women on a college campus will be raped before she graduates.

and i think that the me too moment has shown us that that doesn't end at graduation, right? that sexual violence and sexual harassment continue to follow people into their careers after college. so the purpose of this panel is to think more holistically about this question of violence and to just as the last panel finished off, think about what kind of groundwork we're laying in college that can be sort of transferred from beyond. so, i'm going to start by introducing michael kimmel, who's one of the foremost experts on men and masculinity at stony brook and author of many books about men and masculinity. michael had studied this issue in many different parts of the life span. but i am interested to ask michael about what it is when men enter their careers, they need to have already learned to be people who promote gender equity in the workforce. >> thank you. thanks for inviting me. i am thrilled to participate. basically just want to say to the last panel, what they said. [laughter] but i have a couple things i want to amplify from what i heard. the first thing i heard, this is not necessarily normative. getting inside the idea of masculinity is important. what i hear in the workplace and college campuses from a lot of men are right now in the me too

moment is, we don't know what to say. we don't want to be we're walking on egg shells. we don't want to be jerks. you know, that's good news. most men don't want to be jerks. most men don't do this. our role in some respects is to provide support for those who don't do it so they can intervene and challenge those who do. most men don't want to be jerks. but they don't know how to not be jerks because of what they have learned from other men. so, i want to say two things about this. first, i want to echo something that was said earlier that we don't teach algebra once a week. i am a university-based. i also do a lot of work outside universities, and in universities, we're constantly bemoaning the fact that the american public school system has ill-prepared students for college-level work. so, we have remedial math programs, remedial writing programs. you know, the things that we assumed once upon a time they

would have gotten in high school, but you know, they don't. so we're so sorry about that, we're going to do something about it. so everybody has to take a writing course. everybody has to take these entry level courses that should have been done in high school. so, why don't we transfer that to sex education? because most american students in public high schools across this country get virtually no sex education, and if they do, it's abstinence-based, which means it's even worse than no sex education. [laughter] michael: and it seems to me that instead of sitting on a college campus going, oh my, we should everyone is required to have comprehensive sex education in their college years, not just orientation, not just for an hour during orientation. when you're brand-new on a new campus and all you want to do is make friends, get drunk and get laid. but all through your years in college, i think mandatory comprehensive sex education in college should be one thing that we can do.

the second thing i want to say about universities, and i want to echo something that jackson said earlier, is these are institutional arrangements, and these kinds of impulses come from the top down. you know, we talk about the military that way or politics that way. it's certainly true in corporations. when ceo's and c suite executives say this is important to me, i want this workplace to be so safe that everyone can completely show up and be really productive, because we know that more gender equal workplaces are more productive and more profitable. so, i'm thinking about this sort of institutionally. here's something that happens on college campuses. you may not even know this, but this is an institutional thing. so, i keep thinking, like, this isn't on young people. this is on us. do you know that according to national pan helenic rules, nationally recognized greek

letter sororities are prohibited from serving alcohol at parties. but according to the inter-fraternity council, nationally recognized greek letter fraternities are permitted to serve alcohol at parties. subject to local alcohol regulations, of course. who has the parties? this is a structural thing. you know, i keep thinking, you -- it's an experiment. i am an empiricist. i have this experiment idea. i want one campus to come forward and say for the next two years, only sororities can serve alcohol at parties. the fraternities are prohibited. do you think sexual assault would go down? i don't know. it's an open question. i am an empiricist, let's find out. because what might happen is that instead of the guys standing at the door saying, you know, is she hot enough? does she dance the way we want? does she drink the way we want? does she have sex the way we want? are you a babe enough to come in? no, we would have some women at

the door saying, are you a gentleman enough to come in? i know some guys would steep -- sneak in, it's ok. but even if she does get so drunk she can barely stand up, she goes upstairs to her bedroom. i just think again, i'm an empiricist, a social scientist. i think it's worth a try. this is an institutional arrangement. this is on us. we let this happen. and then we blame students for it. thank you for that. >> well, what a way to start out. >> i have nothing to say. haley: i hope you have something to say because my next question is for annie clark, executive director of end rape on campus and has also co-authored a book, we believe you, which features stories from the survivors. speaking of elevating the stories of survivors, i was wondering if you could talk about the sudden surge of stories about workplace abuse has affected what you do on campuses, and the sense of the movement on campus? annie: thank you so much for

having me and for hosting this lovely panel discussion. i think the first thing to recognize is that this isn't sudden. we have been talking about this for centuries, quite literally centuries. and i also want to say that there are people in this room and on this stage with me who have been doing this work since before i was even born. and so it's really because of you that we're able to have this conversation, but we also have all of these young folks who are growing up in this time, and i think it's really important to have this cold learning space -- co-learning space. this is not new, maybe it has just fallen on deaf ears. its important a lot of -- to understand these conversations have been siloed. it's been workplace, college campus, k-12. but they're all interconnected, and we can't talk about sexual violence on college campuses without talking about the military, without talking about the catholic church.

we also can't talk about sexual violence without talking about racism and homophobia and transphobia. so that is another thing i want to touch on later. but to echo what you were saying on the previous panel and to answer your question, yes, we absolutely have to start earlier. if the first time we're talking about sexual assault is at college orientation, it is way too late. and to sort of tie those strings together, my sister is a kindergarten teacher. she hears on the playground, he hits you because he likes you. he's chasing you because he thinks you're cute. it's just a schoolyard crush. right? fast forward that a little bit to middle school. i want a researcher to tell me how many hours of a girl's education are lost every single year because they're taken out of their chemistry class, their algebra class, their english class, because their skirts are too short. their collarbones are showing. and then we're giving a message

to our young men that they're suddenly not responsible enough to control their behavior. what message does that send their kids? or our kids. and then we know sexual assault happens much earlier than college. so, whether this is elementary school, high school, college, an elder home, somebody reports abuse. the questions they get, why did you go home with them? what were you wearing? flashback to that high school classroom where you were removed from your educational setting because you were told that your collarbones were too distracting. and so all of this is very interconnected. i wanted to tie that together from the first panel to say if we're starting at the college level, not to excuse the responsibility of colleges to teach our students, but it's too late. and so i wanted to say that. what else? >> has the enthusiasm of this

moment, even starting off with of the #metoo, which millions of people shared and stepped forward and told their stories, who many of whom had never been a part of any kind of activism on this issue at all, has its -- has it invigorated the campus movement? annie: i think it's really important to recognize that there are many different ways to be a survivor, and that there is not one right way. and while the me too movement and i say that in quotes because it was a started in the 1990's and even before that, no one should have to publicly stand on a stage and tell their story in order to be believed and supported. and if somebody wants to share their story, absolutely. if they don't want to, their story is no less valid. so i think, yes, while, if you give people a safe space to share their story, many people will. but we can't judge people for not, because they might not feel

safe doing so. i also think it's really important to recognize whose stories are being elevated. the media, to be quite honest, likes stories of people who look like me, and we need to start changing the narrative. especially when we know that native women, women of color, black women, lgbt communities experience much higher rates of violence and are often erased from the conversation. and so, while this effort is getting so much traction, and i'm grateful for that, i think it's really important that we take a critical look at the media and how different folks' narratives are being told, which is one of the reasons we wrote "we believe you," my co-author and i, to make sure that folks could tell their stories in their own words. haley: thank you so much. i want to bring in our third panelist into the conversation. don mcpherson is an all-american quarterback at syracuse. >> was. haley: was, a runner-up for the

heisman trophy. more importantly for our purposes, a decades-long activist on this issue who has spent a long time talking about to college students specifically about these questions. i am really curious about the way in which colleges have been a place -- of course, they get most of their attention for being breeding grounds for toxic masculinity, but other ways in which colleges have actually been a place for transformation. don: i think that the last thing you said is significant. colleges are a place for transformation. not around this issue, but everything that goes back to the algebra analogy. colleges are a place of transformation when you talk about any kind of academic discipline or any kind of excellence in pursuit of any endeavor. except this. and that's where the shift has to change on college campuses. i think there's something that's really important, and i can go back to what michael said and the previous panel. we had dinner last night and listened to these men talk.

i was 29-years-old, and i tell this story often, when i met jackson katz. at 29-years-old, i knew what it meant to be black. and to be an american playing in the canadian football league, i knew what it meant to be a new yorker just because i'm a new yorker. i was 29-years-old. i knew what it meant to be the youngest of five children. i knew all these things that shaped my identity, except i never considered masculinity. i was considered an alpha male as a professional football player. i was considered this iconic understanding of masculinity and i had no idea what that meant. and so in order to have that conversation, like you mentioned, how do we have these transformative conversations, we do have to get to the point where we're talking to men in a different way than we and this is the other side of this. we on the outside of the movement typically talk about this. and there's the one thing that we do in activism, which is

pushing the issue, pushing the facts, pushing the statistics, being more inclusive, and then there's really the education that needs to happen. and i always say that we don't raise boys to be men, we raise boys not to be women. so i was raised in that ideology. i was raised not to be a woman in terms of what my masculinity meant. which is why when i met jackson, all of a sudden i had to switch to being very proactive in how i understood masculinity. i had to reconstruct so many different lessons i have learned, rehabilitate so many different things i had learned about what it meant to be a man. that is what it took, being immersed with jackson. i mean, if you listen to jackson, you hear that, i used to sit, and sit together, as we did last night, and listen to men really grapple with how the culture -- what the culture expects of us as men and how we internalize that and how we make that work for us in our lives. if we are going to do the work in higher education, we should

approach this issue not necessarily in the way we approach it as activists, but the way we approach it as educators. in education, we don't do prevention work in higher ed. we do excellence work. we do competency work. and so you know, very often, people look at sports and want to elevate sports, let's use sports as a platform. the problem with that is we miss what the reality of what the sports analogy or the sports example can do. sports, what we do is we prepare to make good decisions. it's not what you see on game day or see in the olympics. you'll see athletes compete in the olympics this week who have been preparing four years for 90 seconds. so when we talk about this is why, when jackson mentioned the by standing behavior, that takes the generate analysis and wants to create a bouncer program, is not looking at the everyday conversations that are happening over and over. that lead to what happens in 90 seconds. and so that's where the education needs to happen.

a lot of men who come to this conversation have no understanding of our masculinity. this is one of the reasons why gender equality falls on deaf ears with men, because we don't realize we have gender. of course. and so women are saying, we want equity, and men are saying, equity with what? because we don't have that thing that you want. because we're devoid of any kind of gender ideology because we've never been raised to be full, whole people. haley: to the men that are listening, it does not fall on deaf ears, what is one concrete thing you would advise men who are serious about thinking of themselves as having a gender and being invested in gender equity? what should they do? who wants to start? go for it.

michael: i'll say two things. in the general context, i want to echo something that annie said. it is a moment where for the first time, when women are speaking, they're being believed. i think this took a long time. i think the person who started this was anita hill. after what happened to her, women went quiet. but they've been talking to each other all this time, and they know how to believe each other. they know how to talk about this. this is a moment where women are being believed. even mitch mcconnell said he believed the women that were accusing roy moore. women are being believed. this is a moment of opportunity for us. it is not inevitable that this will continue to become the watershed moment that it has the potential to be. i think part of the answer to whether that happens or not is how we engage with men. i want to say one other thing. i want to tell you that i'm very i'm both an activist and an academic, right? so i'm very optimistic. as an activist, i'm optimistic because i believe change is

possible. as an academic, as a professor, i believe that if my students engage with their world more critically, their lives will be better. that's optimistic. so i'm temperamentally optimistic. so bear with me. but i think it's really important. there was a survey -- what this moment the opportunity that this presents to men is to rethink past behavior, to rethink what they have learned, what they have been taught, how they have behaved, and to begin to atone for some of that, to begin to retheorize that. and the economist published a survey -- this is the optimistic part -- the economist published a survey in november that showed that that asked men in workplaces, two age cohorts of men, 18 to 30 and over 60, and they asked them questions about workplace interactions, workplace behavior. now, let's be clear. you know, masturbating in front of someone has always been wrong. but they asked them the sort of low-level stuff. is it ok to call a woman honey

or sweetheart? is it ok to come up behind her and give her a neck massage? is it ok to say, you look beautiful today? well over, about two-thirds of the 18 to 20-year-olds said, that is not ok. and 80% of the 60 and more said it was. young people know this. we have to we that have been doing this for a really long time, we have to follow them. because those new norms are becoming more embedded in young people's culture. so here's one very concrete thing. i think that this is a moment that men can do two things. the first is we have to listen to oprah, which is stfu. we have to listen to women. we've got to stop talking to them and telling them about their oppression and man splaining. we've got to listen because we can believe them. if we're going to start to listen to women, we've got to start talking to other men. so i have a very concrete

workplace idea. every woman in this room has probably had this experience. you've been in a meeting where you're virtually one of the only women or there's another woman in the room and there's a lot of men in the room. and somebody says something stupid and sexist. and everybody looks at you like, oh god, here she goes. big eye roll, like she's going to ruin it now. so the woman is put in the position of either feeling terrible and making everybody else feel terrible, or feeling terrible alone. but she's now in the position, she's going to feel bad. after the meeting, one of the guys who was in the room, half hour later, comes up to you and says, oh, i'm really sorry about what happened in that meeting. at that point, you want to strangle him. you want to say, where were you when i needed you? so here's what i think has to happen. i would say, i can't speak up by myself because they'll marginalize me. i will become an honorary woman. then i'll get the condescending, patronizing, haley and michael, when they say sorry in a

condescending way. men, you have to look around that room and see if there's somebody else besides you who's looking down at their shoes, shuffling papers uncomfortably, and you have to say half hour after the meeting, you go up to them and you say, listen, i'm not down with what bob was just saying over there. next time we go to a meeting i am going to say something. listen, as soon as i do, you have to jump in and say, i don't like it either. right. one person does it, he's marginalized. if two people do it, we open up a space, and all the other guys can say, i don't like it either. and it stops right there. what i'm saying is, men have to do two things. one, we have to support each other in challenging one another. those are the conversations i think have to happen with men. very concretely, because we've all been in that meeting. >> thank you. maybe the other more brief?

[laughter] michael: i'm a college professor, they pay me to think in hour and 20-minute chunks. thank you. haley: annie? annie: vote. seriously. run for office. show up and vote. and i will be brief, i promise. but i really want everybody to take away that there is something that you can do on an individual level, and everybody's activism does not have to look the same. i give this example often when trying to convince legislators that we should talk about consent and preschool and elementary school. my partner has a dog. it's a really cute dog. anecdotally, there's no scientific research to back this up, but young boys will more often than not pet this dog without asking permission, and parents will not do anything. young girls are more likely to ask permission. i have a dog. where does your dog like to be

pet? can i pet your dog? and if they don't, parents will punish them. and so, thinking about consent and permission in everyday ways is really important. whether you are a doctor, a teacher, a student, a sister, a friend, a parent, an ally, there is something you can do. and so my challenge would be not only to vote but to look at your everyday life. whether it was watching the super bowl last saturday and there was a sexist commercial on and you didn't say anything, or who you're going to have lunch with after this. i'm getting hungry. and so, think about those things that you can do in your everyday life. then finally, it should not be on the backs or incumbent on survivors to end sexual violence and rape culture. and i know that centering allies is very important. but i just will end on a note that if you are a survivor of sexual violence, that i see you, i believe you, and to know that

what happened was not your fault, whether you're live streaming or you're in this room. i believe you. and you're not alone. thank you. don: i think the thing men should understand, and this is not just about fathers, but men in general, it is not a matter of talking to our daughters. this is a matter of talking to our sons. and being courageous in talking to our sons so that they are better men than we are. that's the whole goal of any generation is the next generation is better. there was this commercial that's a really pathetic commercial of a father and a son in a car that breaks down and they're waiting for someone to come fix the car because they're waiting for roadside assistance. and the father goes, this is a good opportunity to have this conversation. whatever the difficult conversation that follows, and all of a sudden the roadside assistance comes and the father's like, whew. masculinity and being a man is being courage, courageous, and strong and powerful and tough. men are punks when it comes to this.

[applause] don: if being a man is being courageous -- then shut the -- up and listen. and be engaged in the conversation. i'm tired of this notion of this bravado masculinity and then at the same time, we're saying, oh, well, i'm going to be accused of saying something wrong. ok, so say something wrong and own it. right? and then have the conversation. then be brave in the conversation. be brave enough to be wrong. that is a challenge. i don't like getting into this sort of like antagonistic, but this is a challenge to men. enough with this already. right? enough of saying, i don't know what, i'm going to say the wrong thing. say the wrong thing. have the conversation. be engaged in the conversation. and here's the thing. if you don't, in your silence, you are hurting your son, because right now and this is a you know, when a social change happens, does it happen at the tip of the spear?

women are saying, it's going to happen at the tip of the spear. and you better wake up. if we as men don't say, hey, we need to wake up and help our sons and this is also same philosophy around higher education. do i want to be at an institution if i'm a college president where my men at my institution know how to behave in the workplace? what i want to be at an institution where we say, no, we like our frat boys because they donate well to the institution. or do i want my men leaving this institution knowing how to function in an egalitarian workplace and relationships. that's what we should be striving for. if i'm a dad and i see my son, do i want my son to be the guy who's going, hey, yeah, i'm an olympic-grade swimmer and i'm at stanford on scholarship, but i raped an unconscious woman behind a dumpster. where is the dissonance in our culture that we don't see that as an absolute failure of men, of raising our sons to be better

people? instead of defending their behavior, we should be ashamed that those men are living in the same decade that we are. because we haven't given them the tools to be better people. so i say to men, this is on to use the expression, this is on us to raise the next generation of men to be better than we are. [applause] haley: thank you. some concrete takeaways. i'll paraphrase in c-span-friendly language. be quiet. listen. be engaged. and then be brave, right? actually step up and face these things head on. the worst thing that happens to you seems to be that somebody's mad at something you said and the stakes of this debate, as we've talked about today, are so much higher for survivors and potential future survivors. thank you so much to our panel. at this point, i'm going to turn things over to gary, who you have met already. do we have time for questions? let's take a question.

>> our first question is facebook live. speaking of technology. >> this question comes from someone who's following along on facebook live. she is also a vital voices global leadership awards honoree. the question is, what does the panel think of the #mentorher campaign? it seems very patriarchal and sends the wrong message that women need help. how can we get our business leaders to stop patronizing women and sending them the wrong message through their organizations? >> michael? michael: michael. i think the context of this is very, very important. i share the same kind of discomfort with the hashtag, with the idea it seems to be a rescuing or condescending idea. but in the corporate world, i work with a lot of companies. mentorship programs, sponsorship programs are vital for people to be able to navigate successfully

their rise in the corporation. we know that mentorship programs, and especially sponsorship programs, mentoring programs basically are, you're basically a cartographer. you take someone under your wing and you help them map the company. and then you're kind of a civil engineer, right? you help them build a bridge from one part of it over this obstacle or something. and then you are a cheerleader, you say, you go. and it seems to me, i've worked with a lot of these mentoring programs internationally. they tend to be very successful, and women like them. and they're successful. they're effective. so in the corporate world, that idea of mentoring has a somewhat different connotations for us. and the research, by catalyst on this is really quite persuasive

as well. on the other hand, i had the same reaction when i heard it. which is, eek, this is one of those moments where, you know, it sounds like it's inviting men to rescue damsels in distress. like, we'll take it from here. we'll help you. i always think that that results in something that i like to call premature self congratulation for the men. i'm not thrilled about it. i go both ways on that. haley: annie, don? don: i'm sorry. haley: do we have time for one more? >> my name is lisa. and i'm coming from the international organization for migration. i just have a question in regards to the study that you

spoke of. you mentioned some examples, some gray areas of sexual harassment and where you noted that you saw in the study that men over the age of 60 were more likely to not be so aware that their actions were inappropriate. how do we hold people that are currently in their positions at the top, how do we hold them accountable? because right now, it's a lot of he said, she said, how do you prosecute that a lot of the times? from things that i've heard, those people are maybe placed on administrative leave, or they're moved somewhere else. that's how it's dealt with. so, how do we change that to set the example? michael: and not just simply wait for the next wave of people to rise to that. you know, this is this is the key question right now. a lot of the accusations that have been levied against some of

the people have been 30 or 40-years-old. and i think we have to acknowledge that the rules have changed. my dad worked in a workplace that looked like don draper's. and by that, i mean all the men had all the offices with the windows. and the women, the secretarial pool, were gathered in the center, and sexual access to them was considered a perk of the job. that was normal. it is not normal anymore. so, the norms have changed. and it is important to say, with that, you know, we then are being invited to retheorize our past behavior. the stuff that we learned in locker rooms, you know, is now not acceptable. we have to acknowledge that. in one respect, we have to hold people accountable for past behavior. on the other hand, i also think that we have to acknowledge that we are playing by different rules. so i think it's important, maybe

something in the neighborhood of a truth and reconciliation idea where if we say, i did this, i was taught to do this, i behaved in this way because i thought that was normal. so if i do that, what do i get in return for that? you know, the idea is some kind of reconciliation. i get to come back into the universe of discourse. i don't get, then well, you did that so you're now exiled. so we have to find a way to both acknowledge what we did and then also find ways to come back and be accountable for it in moving forward. annie: i think two things. one, we need to talk about accountability. like we're all pretty, c-span, aware. we're very aware of what's happening. we need accountability and that can look like legislation, but it also needs to be cultural shifts and change.

and those things, it's the chicken or the egg. they need to happen together, and yeah. i just think accountability is huge, and just because somebody grew up 60 years ago, that might be an explanation, but that is not an excuse. haley: that's right. thank you so much to my fantastic panelists. at this point, i am going to bring up gary barker to leave with us some final thoughts. [applause] gary: just a quick couple of final reflections. first i want to thank vital voices for hosting us. the staff, and to new america for being part of this. really hard to follow up with our -- with overarching conclusions. we had lots of points. just a couple reflections. i was giving a couple talks. you have seen the images if you have not been there, about 2500

white, entitled men, and a growing percentage of women. a lot of nervous men who i think were thrilled when trump came in because they had a reason not to talk about sexual harassment. the main question they kept coming up with was, isn't this going to far? and now feeling uncomfortable. i said, embrace this moment, this is what women have felt like for centuries. of course, that did not get me many friends and i probably will not be invited back. i said, this is a moment of change. that moment you don't know where you are going. we do it men don't do, and that is, ask for directions. they just ran off to the coffee bar. men, ask for directions. if you don't know, -- ask. sorry, c-span and all. stop and ask. the other point i wanted to

bring up is, i think while we are focused on this me too moment and the issue of harassment, sexual-harassment is not the disease. it is a symptom of this thing called patriarchy and gender inequality. we like to think we have overcome it, that we are done. we have to put it in that framework. the solution is not a one-off or a 45 minute powerpoint hr departments are doing across businesses. it is a whole suite of changes. norway has done it and they have not sunken into the atlantic. let's remember, this is a bigger picture. you heard me make a joke to make facts great again. we have things like the center for disease control that have not been put out of did -- put out of business yet, but this administration is trying to. there is data around

comprehensive sexual history and sexual violence prevention the cdc has been developing over the years. there is a lot more needed, but they cannot do it if they are being systematically gutted. that is one of the casualties in this administration we need to pay attention to. the fourth and final point is, while men should be uncomfortable, and that is ok, and live with that moment, we should add a couple drops of sugar or honey to the water at the end of this. i think this moment also has a potential to be the greatest revolution in our lives as men. which i think several of you alluded to, don in particular. we get to be better men, have the connections we want, acknowledge we don't know everything, that we haven't done the brave things we said we did. we get to be more connected,

rounded, happier human beings, which is not a bad thing for us or the planet. part of this is to figure out, we want men in the door to say, we have skin in this game. not to take it over. i love the posters here, to stand down. remember where the conversation started. not to re-center it, but to live in a moment to say, our lives can get better in this me too moment. i learned it from these gentlemen, but also the women's whose pictures lead us to be able to say, gender exists and is causing harm and we as men have a stake in it. we want to say, we did not invent this yesterday. there are things we can put out there in a more unified way. thanks for offering us the space to do this. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017]

>>, american history tv on c-span3's life, beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern with all day coverage from the new museum of the bible in washington, d.c. with a symposium of historians exploring the bible and the founding of america. speakers include baylor university history professor regimenkidd, author of " franklin: the religious life of founding father." ofiel draws back, author reading the bible with the founding fathers. and the divinity professor james byrd, author of "sacred scripture, sacred war: the bible and the american revolution." startinge this morning at 9:00 a.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span3. tuesday morning, we are live

in little rock, arkansas for the next stop on the c-span bus 50 capitals tour. asa hutchinson will be our starting ate bus 9:00 a.m. eastern. the winter olympic games are underway. u.s. delegation is vice president mike pence. after remarks to soldiers yesterday at an airbase in japan, he took questions from reporters for about 10 minutes. vice president pence: thanks, everybody. i'm good. thank you so much. before we leave for south korea, let me say a few words and we'll take a few questions. we're completing what we believe has been a very successful visit to our allies here in japan. very productive and substantive discussions wi