peninsula. south korea it stands shoulder to shoulder with the u.s. and our allies." that comes after the resident of south korea met with the sister of north korean leader kim jong-il and on the sidelines of the olympic ceremony. next, we will take a look at diplomatic efforts between north and south korea while the olympic games take place. thisington journal," from is 30 minutes. >> joining us now is nicholas crowder, the executive director of the washington international diplomatic academy and author of america's other army, the u.s. foreign service and 21st century democracy. he is here to talk about the potential of nomadic outcomes from the u.s. olympics being held now in south korea. thank you for joining us today.

nicholas: we have courses for the private sector, for business government in global affairs who deal with foreign governments and the u.s. government. courses for u.s. state and local officials and in ae summer, we will have summer academy for graduate like to who would pursue careers in diplomacy. get into theto diplomatic challenges or opportunities that the olympics presents. with a "theart washington post" piece that hits on that issue saying that vice president pence's olympic goal rebuff north korea's charm offensive. it says vice president pence was man on a mission.

by the time he arrived at the he already toured seoul, gazing up the navy vessel destroyed torpedo torekorean through it in 2010. four northately with korean defectors, nodding in shaking his head in sadness as he urged them to share their stories. his visits have been aimed at combating north korea's shiny propaganda with gritty talk of his own. talk more about the diplomacy theg to in south korea as games go on. nicholas: first of all, i think there is an opportunity at the olympics for diplomacy that could not have taken place elsewhere at any other time. for south korea

and the international olympics committee to make this happen, to have north korea join the games. expenses.for their they waived qualification able to get to be them in and we didn't know until last month that they would, indeed, participate. president has a challenging task because the not haveates does diplomatic relations with north korea. no american official wants to be korea inppeasing north any way because if it's deploring human rights record, nuclear missile programs. at the same time, diplomacy is the only realistic way out of standoff so i hope that, if not the vice president, someone on the american side, diplomats, will

take the opportunity and meet with someone in the north korean delegation to the olympics. highest members, but someone, and start some sort of conversation, because ultimately this will be resolved by talking, not by firing missiles or fire and fury. host: you say this won't be by fire and fury. nicholas: we hope. host: is there a real improveity here to relations with north korea given the fact that there has been heightened rhetoric on both sides? is that even a possibility here? nicholas: the state of relations low that one hopes the only direction they can go from up. is thing is -- i think this, what's speak in south korea, the olympics, actually is opening for both sides.

seen kim jong il extend, at least his entire hand, maybe a finger or two, probably the good ones, to south korea at least. and there is significant desire on part of the new president of south korea to engage with the north. and so i hope that without were any as if there other wedge between the united korea, whichuth north korea clearly wants, the americans and the south koreans can work together on a strategy, not just to engage with the but have a clear understanding what they want the sake ofing for talking isn't entirely helpful. the mainl say, one of problems in the last several and as a journalist, i covered the north korean nuclear missile negotiations for more than 10 years, the main problem

because wes that don't have diplomatic relations americanh korea, diplomats, american officials, just don't know enough about the country, about the people in the country, about officials. they don't have relationships. is ultimately diplomacy about influence. to have influence, you have to have relationships that you've maintain cultivate and so at the end of the day you can sit down and negotiate because to anytry will come negotiation being asked or being to capitulate preemptively. they have to get something out any negotiation. host: we are joined by nicholas kralev of the -- and we're talking about diplomatic opportunities presented by the olympics that just got underway this week. 202-748.ns can call

i want to ask but what's going and south north korea. first there was a meeting presidentuth korea's and kim jong un's sister and news thatng there is kim jong un has invited the talkskorean president for in the north. "u.s.a. today" reports that kim invited south korean president, moon jae-in, for first major development to stem from north korea's participation in the moon's office announced saturday. the information delivered by the the north korean leader when she and other members of the north korean lunch with moon at the south korean palace. new?is something nicholas: it is new because leaders of south and north korea in more than 10

years so it is quite significant. as some reports already indicated, south korea president accepted has already the invitation and few people expected he would turn it down is a significant opportunity. well, i hope that before he goes, american diplomats will way to make clear what the american position is. way, this is another challenge. we don't quite know what the is, whatposition american policy is toward north korea at the moment because we've heard different statements different officials. we hear we're ready to talk. sometimes we hear, no, as the famously tweeted a couple months ago, that secretary of state is wasting his time trying to find a way to to the north koreans.

so, first of all, the united clear,must have a unified policy that wants it wao then that policy, i would think, a great idea would that to south korea and to the south korean delegation so when the south korean president goes to p'yongyang, he always keeps in statesat the united wants to get out of it because the united states is a major player. there's still tens of thousands of american troops in south close to the anylitarized zone and at point we don't want for north korea to drive a wedge between two allies, the united states and south korea. you a tweet to read from vice president pence's staff.chief of he tweeted, "vice president pence did not go to the

olympics, make friends with tyrants. he's not there to shake hands exchange pleasant courtesies with murderous dictators. is exactlyg below the weak diplomat approach that's allowed others to take of us in the past." sort of cast view light over the diplomatic possibilities there in the olympics. first thing that comes to my mind when i hear and diplomacy is a difficult thing, difficult, some call it game, i call it a veryssion, because it's a intricate dance. i agree, you don't want to be dictators,easing absolutely. has an abysmal human rights record. it would rather spend money

building weapons than feeding its own people. there is no question about that. in stateplomacy, craft, just meeting with someone mean endorse what toy're doing so if you want prevail in a negotiation, if you want to get anything out of a or situation, a negotiation, you have to sit side, unless other you believe that the only option which last resort, military should be the last resort, military force. and how can you possibly understand where the other side coming from if you don't meet them, because the best outcome of a negotiation is when manage to persuade the other what you want them to by convincing them

it's in their own interest and that is probably one of the difficulties in diplomacy because there are different cultures, different ways of life. in north korea is very difficult but you have to understand the history, the culture of that country, the people and thee government. host: we have a lot of callers. the democratic line from washington, d.c. hi, lawrence. caller: good morning, how are you? thank you for allowing me to speak this morning. ahead, you're on. caller: ok. have had the opportunity to c-span before and something that keeps coming to mind with presidency and we talk about somemacy now is that for reason the elephant in the room is theas i see it republicans but the problem with thatlephant in the room is it no longer truly wears the

flag.an we about, as i see it, we're on a parallel course with when naziism was on the rise in america and now we seem to be following that trend. no diplomacy. once the president decides that or no way, then we're shutting down the government, we're shutting down diplomacy. host: lawrence, i want to give you a chance, if you had a to north korea and the olympics. caller: my question is, why diplomatic community is ignoring the mere fact that the elephant in the room is no american. nicholas: there's no question this is a very, very difficult for american diplomacy,

from american diplomats, to the service, about which my book, in fact, talks. and it is quite sad that political leaders in this administration and even previous administrations haven't fully grasped the extent to which diplomacy, professional diplomacy, and how career fact helpcan in political leaders achieve goals and implement policy so thing is fundamental disunderstanding of what diplomacy is, who should practice diplomacy, because as we know for decades we have had politicalh connections being appointed to without anyosts previous experience or qualifications, just because they either helped the president elected or they have other connections or they worked on a political campaign. that is the wrong approach.

you should have people who know what they're doing. why are generals, career people, right? why have political appointees in thosexperience positions? because it is not only irresponsible, it is dangerous country because diplomacy ultimately is about national security and the prosperity of the american people. earlier to mention -- you asked me about the diplomatic academy. we take small groups of americans to other countries to show them how american diplomacy american what diplomacy does for the american people so it's the history, the americanpresent of and what and how american diplomats do in other countries affects of lives of is very home which important and ultimately because they spend our taxpayer money, every american should know what do overseas.omats host: you were talking about the

importance of diplomatic efforts it's notometimes always recognized but sometimes there are disagreements. administration, rex tillerson has stressed the for diplomatic walks it north korea whereas the saiddent has repeatedly that will not work. what impact do you think that has? nicholas: at the same time, a few days ago, the vice president -- once he arrived in asia, he was in japan before at oneorea -- did say point that both he and the president are interested in talking. so you're right, to my earlier point, that we hear different things at different times. job isretary of state's to pursue diplomacy. there is no way around it. that is why that person is the chief u.s. diplomat. issue has been that our diplomats, both the

foreign service and civil service at the state department washington, have felt under appreciated if not unappreciated in the past year just doesn't seem that the secretary of state and ther members of administration quite appreciate, just diplomacy, but engaging countries in ways that's mutually beneficial. the american -- america first approach, some interpreted as let's just do everything that's best for us without caring what's good for other countries, which sounds fine. everybody wants for his or her inntry to be number one whatever it is, except, again, in diplomacy, because we deal other countries, and other

multinational organizations or bilateral diplomatic relations, you have to consider the other side. you can still come out victorious, it's just that, if you're professional enough, then you will find a way while other countrye and its own needs because democracy,if it's a we have to respect our allies in asia around the world that have their own public opinions. governments have to think about that so we have to respect that while still ways to come out ahead. on the independent line from new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. just a quick question. the south koreas seem to be getting together themselves. the sister's over there now. talk withhigh-level the very important person from north korea scheduled, the of south korea seems

very interested. what happens if the north and the south create their own peace treaty, north korea disarms its pointed atartillery seoul? will the united states, do you respect the decisions of the two korean people? try to screw that situation up for our own reasons? the unitedell, if states is smart, it will make diplomats areican there every step of the way while this is happening. bedon't want a situation to fact andented with a not be able to do anything about it so during all these negotiations the u.s. has to be in some way. behind the scenes is fine with me. we don't have to announce everything publicly. it's actually often diplomacy is

done behindve when closed doors until there is something to announce so you're just bee don't want to spectators. issue very difficult because there is no peace treaty. the war ended in 1953. truce.as a there never was a formal peace treaty between the two. has come up several times bushg the george w. administration when condi rice and chris hill who was, at the time, assistant secretary of state for east asia, were with north korea. that actually was one of the carrot that was dangled north koreaive for to abandon its nuclear programs. to it.r came the united states has been reluctant to go and it's also themately something that

united nations would be and should be involved until. so i'm not sure this administration would consider this, given the current situation. but at some point it's very likely that that issue will come up again. host: keith is on our republican line, from petersburg, virginia. morning. caller: good morning. the president talked about cleaning the swamp. in order to clean the swamp, he had to get in it and he stepped in it. he's like a puppet and i don't see no kind of way that he can negotiate with the president of north korea. need is somebody that convey to them that we don't war with them. we're a peaceful country. he's looking at trump like, this man crazy? you know. he don't trust us.

we need someone that's able to to him. he's not into politics but he can convey the want war.at we don't we want peace. know, thatthing, you to theirssibly convey president, because the republicans, there's nothing want-- i don't think they to do nothing. host: let me put that point to nicholas kralev. somebody, if president trump is not the leader in terms of diplomatic efforts -- can rex tillerson do it, or vice president pence -- perhaps not dennis rodman -- can it be somebody else? if yous: at one point, recall, the president didn't with kim jongng

un. the administration has been all over the place and i don't criticize lightly. in governmenteen so i don't -- not having it and the difficulty of it, i know a lot a difficulties of my work as journalist and author but i've not been in those shoes. inthe same time, again, terms of policy, you cannot carry out diplomacy if there's policy to implement and we just don't know what his mood be tomorrow or next week or next month about meeting. meeting with some north koreans is an option, i would diplomatnd an american with that south american delegation going to p'yongyang a lower levelit's diplomat, just to have eyes and ears there, rather than hear second-hand accounts from people who have been in those meetings, and start from there.

high-level officials like the vice president, like the secretary of state, they're too visible. begin something like this, you want to test the waters. things behind the scenes. currentlyping that since kim jong un's sister, as in south korea -- yes, the vice president doesn't want to meet with her and that's fine. but i hope that she has or will american,ast one because these relationships personalin on a very level. host: i want to get a couple more calls in. a call on the democratic line. hi, sherry. caller: good morning. thanks, c-span. love your show. to ask, how uncanny do you think it is that the attack happened at the olympics around the time or during the time or after the that russia, it was

was notd that russia allowed to be there because of now they'reand clean, so they're allowed. what do you think about that? nicholas: the reports about that very, verycking are fresh. it's early hours, right. mightdon't know where it have come from and what the motivation behind it might have been. is notuation with russia only very interesting, it's very bizarre, because at the opening yesterday, they could not come out with the flag of federation. they came out with the olympic athletes or whatever from russia rather than official theesentatives because of doping scandal. by the way, they haven't been cleared, necessarily, just to correct that. there was a court decision that said there wasn't enough evidence to find all of those

guilty. charged some of them were found but not everybody. having been mean cleared. olympicinternational committee actually disagrees with that decision so we're not anywhere near the point of theng completely absolved russians from what they were accused of. host: barbara calling from new york city on the independent line. caller: good morning, thank you. youuple of points, would talk about the situation with victor cha. no longerand he's going to be the ambassador to south korea. umentioned that north korea spends money on military to the detriment to their people. isn't that what the united states does? we build up military while we liningmeless people

upper street, every town, people going to food banks to get food, without medical care. isn't that what we're doing? spend money on military instead of the people? and lastly, my suggestion is the opposite of don from d.c. talked about disarmarm. my suggestion is what if north korea offered south korea the have soexpertise they that south korea wouldn't have to be afraid of north korea and that would cut the united states the deal but so what. maybe it's time for the united states to get out of everybody else's business. host: i want to give nicholas to respond.nce nicholas: obviously you're entitled to make your own and conclusions about the situation in north this country. to would certainly what you think isn't incorrect. out thatertainly point

the unitedon in states is not in any way near in termsn north korea of how the people live. if you look at the economy, g.d.p., per capita, and so on. big, big differences. point that one should have -- a government should have their priorities and whether you want to spend your resources on this or that, it's ultimately a decision the administration has to make your owng care of people is one of the things that any government should do. i would just mention that the united states has very, very interest in the asia pacific and it's not realistic will just leave out a deal to hammer

with the north and not take some it. in the united states is the dominant power in the asia pacific. it weren't, logically, china become such a power and it obviously is trying to but this raises the question purposeat exactly the or the goal of american foreign policy is. of world does the united states want? and so far in this we haven'tion received clear answers to that. they have repudiated some policies of the previous administrations, democratic and republican. acrossn capitol hill the the rotunda, and congress and for decades there washington we called

consensus and this was the largely bipartisan approach to when it came to the u.s. leadership role in the world and as part of this america-first policy and the talk about the swamp and all that, now, it seems this doesn't really want to shoulder the burden of guarantor of global security. and while there might be merit in arguments supporting that, it would be good to articulate whatever the policy is, whatever type of world or local community, international system this administration thinks will u.s. and, ithe think we are still waiting for that. >> nicolas carlos area -- ev, executive

director of the washington international diplomatic academy to react you can find more about the academy at diplomatic nose race academy. u.s. -- diplomaticacademy. u.s.. thank you for being here to riyadh announcer: next, as each on the state -- a speech on the state of national security. former secretary of state hillary clinton talks about women and human rights. this week, house homeland security committee chair michael mccaul of texas gave a speech on national security at george washington university. afterwards, three republicans participatedittee in a panel discussion about the issues he discussed. this is one hour and 35 minutes. >> good morning.