record here? >> c-span's washington journal, news andy day with policy issues that impact you. coming up monday morning, we take a look at the week ahead in washington with reuters white house correspondent asia roscoe, and pulsing or. usa today washington correspondents will discuss efforts to lower prescription drug prices with the founder and president of patients for affordable drugs. cepheid washington journal, live beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern monday morning. join the discussion. >> on friday, activists and academics discuss the role men can play in the #metoo movement and how they can change behavior that leads to sexual harassment and assault. this portion is 40 minutes. >> we are grateful for this

opportunity to sit with activists and scholars. we are focusing on the way in which sexual assault for years has been considered a campus issue, that when we hear about violence against women, often with the shocking statistic of one in four to one in five women being sexually assaulted before she graduates, the #metoo moment has shown us that does not end at graduation. sexual violence and harassment continue to follow people into their careers after college. the purpose of this panel is to speak more holistically about the question of violence. and to think about what kind of groundwork we are laying in be transferredn from beyond. i will start by introducing michael kimmel, one of the foremost experts on men and masculinity and who has authored many books about men and masculinity. michael has studied this issue in many different parts of the lifespan, but i am interested to ask michael about what it is when men into their careers they

need to have already learned to be people who promote gender equity in the workforce? michael: thanks for inviting me. i'm thrilled to participate and i want to say to the last panel what they said. i mean, that is really -- i have a couple of things i want to amplify, from what i heard. , youirst thing i heard was know, this is not necessarily normative. i think that getting inside the idea of masculinity is really important. what i hear in the workplace, what i hear in college campuses from a lot of men are right now in the #metoo moment is, we don't know what to say. we are walking on eight shells. we don't want to be jerks. you know, that's good news. most men don't want to be jerks. most men don't do this. men do'. our role in some respects is to provide support to those who don't do it so they can intervene and challenge those

who do. most men do not want to be jerks but they do not know how to not be jerks. things about two this. i want to echoes something that was said earlier that we don't teach algebra once a week. i am university-based and i also do work outside universities. we are constantly bemoaning the fact that the american public school system has ill-prepared students for college level work. so we have remedial writing programs, remedial map programs. the things we thought once upon a time they would've gotten high school but they don't. all right, we are so sorry about that, we are going to do something about that. everybody has to take these entry-level courses that should've been done in high school. so why don't we also do sexual education because most get no

sex education. and if they do, sometimes it's even worse than no sex education. instead of sitting on college campus saying, oh my, we should say, everyone is required to have comprehensive sex education in their college years. just orientation for one hour during orientation when you are brand new on a campus when all you want to do is make friends, get drunk, and get laid. all through your years in college, think mandatory cooperative sex education in college should be one thing we can do. the second thing i want to say about universities is i want to echoes something said earlier. these kinds of the pulses come from the top down. we talk about the military that way, history of corporations. executives say this

is important to me, i want this workplace, i want this to be so placed that everyone -- i want this place to be so safe that everyone can shopping be gas -- that everyone can show up and be completely productive. i am thinking about this institutionally. here is something that happens on college campuses, you might not even know this. this is institutional. this is not on young people. this is on us. did you know that according to national panhellenic rules, national greek letters sororities are prohibited from serving a call at parties but according to the fraternity -- greeknationally letters can. who has the parties? this is a structural thing.

i keep thinking, you want to reduce? we can experiment. i have this experiment idea. i want one campus to come forward and say, for the next two years only the sororities can serve alcohol at parties. the fraternities are prohibited. do you think sexual assault would go down? i don't know. let's find out. what might happen is an set of the guy standing at the door she hot enough, is she dancing the way we want, is she having sex the way we want, are you a babe enough to come in, no. we would have woman at the door saying, are you a gentleman enough to come in. i know some men who say even if she gets so drunk she can't stand up, she goes up to her begich. again, i am an empiricist. a social scientist. i want to try.

this is on us. we let this happen and then we blame students for it. >> thank you for that. i hope you have something to say, because my next question is for the executive director of and rape on campus. and co-author of a book "we believe you." so elevating the story of survivors, i am wondering if you could talk a little bit about how ending violence and work laces and what it has done with what you do on campus. think the first thing to recognize is we have been talking about this for centuries, quite literally centuries. there are people in this room and on this stage have been doing this work since before i

was even born. it is because of you we are even able to have this conversation and we also have all of the shunt people growing up. so this is not new. it has just maybe fallen on deaf ears. it is also important to recognize that the way we have been having a lot of these conversations is loaded. age, k-12., work we can't talk about violence on college campuses without talking about military, the catholic church, and we also can't talk about sexual violence without talking about racism, homophobia, and trans-phobia. were echo on what you saying on the previous panel into its your question, yes. we have to start earlier.

time we are talking about sexual assault is way too late. to hear from a teacher, he is chasing you because he thinks you are cute. a schoolyard crush. fast forward to middle school. i want a researcher to tell me how many hours of a girl's education are lost every single year because they are taken out of their chemistry or algebra or theirh class because skirts are too short, their collarbones are showing, and then we are giving a message to our young man that they are suddenly not responsible enough to control their behavior. what message does that send our kids? we know sexual assault happens much earlier the end college. elementary school, high school. abuse, thedy reports

questions they get. why did you go home with them? what were you wearing? flash back to that high school where you work pulled out of your high school class because you are showing too much collarbone. i wanted to tie that together from the first dannel to say if we are starting at college level, it is too late. so i wouldn't to say that. >> has the enthusiasm of this moment, even starting off with the #metoo, which millions of people shared and stepped forward and told their stories, who many of whom had never been a part of any kind of activism on this issue at all, has its -- has it invigorated the campus movement? annie: i think it's really important to recognize that there are many different ways to

be a survivor, and that there is not one right way. and while the me too movement and i say that in quotes because it was a started in the 1990's and even before that, no one should have to publicly stand on a stage and tell their story in order to be believed and supported. and if somebody wants to share their story, absolutely. if they don't want to, their story is no less valid. so i think, yes, while, if you give people a safe space to share their story, many people will. but we can't judge people for not, because they might not feel safe doing so. i also think it's really important to recognize whose stories are being elevated. the media, to be quite honest, likes stories of people who look like me, and we need to start changing the narrative. especially when we know that native women, women of color, black women, lgbt communities experience much higher rates of

violence and are often erased from the conversation. and so, while this effort is getting so much traction, and i'm grateful for that, i think it's really important that we take a critical look at the media and how different folks' narratives are being told, which is one of the reasons we wrote "we believe you," my co-author and i, to make sure that folks could tell their stories in their own words. haley: thank you so much. i want to bring in our third panelist into the conversation. don mcpherson is an all-american quarterback at syracuse. don: was. haley: was, a runner-up for the heisman trophy. more importantly for our purposes, a decades-long activist on this issue who has spent a long time talking about to college students specifically about these questions. i am really curious about the way in which colleges have been a place -- of course, they get most of their attention for being breeding grounds for toxic masculinity, but other ways in which colleges have actually been a place for transformation.

don: i think that the last thing you said is significant. colleges are a place for transformation. not around this issue, but everything that goes back to the algebra analogy. colleges are a place of transformation when you talk about any kind of academic discipline or any kind of excellence in pursuit of any endeavor. except this. and that's where the shift has to change on college campuses. i think there's something that's really important, and i can go back to what michael said and the previous panel. we had dinner last night and listened to these men talk. and what they said. i was 29-years-old, and i tell this story often, when i met jackson katz. at 29-years-old, i knew what it meant to be black. i knew what it meant to be an american playing in the canadian football league, i knew what it meant to be a new yorker just because i'm a new yorker. i was 29-years-old. i knew what it meant to be the youngest of five children.

i knew all these things that shaped my identity, except i never considered masculinity. i was considered an alpha male as a professional football player. i was considered this iconic understanding of masculinity and i had no idea what that meant. and so in order to have that conversation, like you mentioned, how do we have these transformative conversations, we do have to get to the point where we're talking to men in a different way than we and this is the other side of this. we on the outside of the movement typically talk about this. and there's the one thing that we do in activism, which is pushing the issue, pushing the facts, pushing the statistics, being more inclusive, and then there's really the education that needs to happen. and i always say that we don't raise boys to be men, we raise boys not to be women. so i was raised in that ideology. i was raised not to be a woman in terms of what my masculinity meant. which is why when i met jackson, all of a sudden i had to switch

to being very proactive in how i understood masculinity. i had to reconstruct so many different lessons i have learned, rehabilitate so many different things i had learned about what it meant to be a man. that is what it took, being immersed with jackson. i mean, if you listen to jackson, you hear that, i used to sit, and sit together, as we did last night, and listen to men really grapple with how the culture -- what the culture expects of us as men and how we internalize that and how we make that work for us in our lives. if we are going to do the work in higher education, we should approach this issue not necessarily in the way we approach it as activists, but the way we approach it as educators. in education, we don't do prevention work in higher ed. we do excellence work. we do competency work. very often, people look at sports.

we missed what the reality of what the sports analogy or example can do. exports, what we do, we prepare to make the decisions. it is not easy on game day, and the olympics. in the athletes compete olympics as we can have been preparing four years for 90 seconds. why we talk about this is when jackson mentioned the by it is notehavior, looking at the everyday conversations that are happening over and over that lead to what happened in 90 seconds. that is where the education used to happen. conversation,his with no understanding around masculinity, is one of the --sons why gender equality we don't realize we have gender. say, we want equity. men say, equity of what? we don't have that thing you have.

benever have been raised to full, whole people. ofi would like to ask each you to give us something, for the menu are listening that is not falling on deaf ears, maybe men in this audience, or men we might encounter after we leave, , one concreteing thing, you would advise men who are serious about the thing -- about being invested in gender equity, what should they do? who wants to start? things.l say two i just wanted to say the general contacts, i think this -- i want to echoes something and he said. thes a moment where, for first time when women are speaking, they are being believed. i think this took a long side -- a long time. the person who started this was anita hill. after what happened to her, women went quiet. they have been talking to each other all this time. they know how to believe each

other. they know how to talk about this. this is a moment where women are being believed, even mitch mcconnell said he believes the women who are accusing roy moore. women are being believed. this is a moment of opportunity for us. it is not inevitable this will continue to become the watershed moment it has the potential to be. i think part of the answer to whether that happens or not is how we engage if men. i want to say one other thing which is to say, i want to tell you that i am an activist and an academic. i am very optimistic. as an activist, i amaq to miss it because i believe change is possible. as an academic, a professor, i believe if my students engage with their world, their lives will be better. i am temperamentally optimistic. bear with me. i think it is really important -- there was a survey.

the opportunity is to rethink past behavior. to rethink what they have learned, what they have been taught, how they have behaved, and to begin to atone for that, too re-theorized that. the economist published a survey, this is the optimistic part, it showed that men and workplaces, to age cohorts of men, 18-30 and over 60. they asked them questions about workplace interactions and behavior. let's be clear. masturbating in front of someone has are what -- always been wrong. but they asked of them the low level stuff. is it ok to call it woman honey or sweetheart? is it ok to come up behind her and give her a necklace on? is it ok to say you look beautiful today? the 18-30thirds of euros said that is not ok. 80% of the 60 and more said it was. young people know this. we have been doing this for a long time.

we have to follow them. those new norms are becoming more abedin and young people's culture. in youngmbedded people's culture. i think this is a moment that men can do to big things. the first is we have to listen rah.p we have to listen to women. we have to stop talking to women, telling them about their oppression. we have to listen. we need to believe them. the second thing, if we start to listen to women, we have to start talking to other men. i have a very concrete workplace idea. every woman in this room is -- has probably had this experience. you have been in a meeting where you are virtually the only woman or another woman in the room and there are a lot of men in the room. says something stupid and sexist. and everybody looks at you. god, here she goes. big eye roll.

she is going to ruin it. the women is put in this position of either feeling terrible and making everybody else feel terrible, or feeling terrible alone. she is now in the position. she will feel bad. after the meeting, one of the says,omes up to you and oh, i am really sorry about what happened in that meeting. at that point, you want to strangle him. you want to say, where were you when i needed you? here is what i think needs to happen. i would say, you don't -- i can't speak about myself. they will marginalize me. i will, and -- become an honorary moment -- woman. when they say, sorry. in that condescending way. here is when you have to do. you have to look around that room. men, you look around the room and see if there is someone else besides you who was looking down at their shoes, who is shuffling papers uncomfortably. you have to go up to them and you say, listen, i am not down

with what bob was saying over there. next time we go to a meeting, i am going to say something. as soon as i do, you have to jump in and say, i don't like it either. because, if two people -- one person doesn't, he is marginalize. if two people do it, we open up a space and the other guys can say, i don't like it either. and it stops there. when i am saying is men have to do two things. in, support each other challenging one another. those of the conversations that have to happen. very concretely. we have all been in the meeting. >> thank you. maybe more brief. >> sorry. [laughter] professor, they pay me to think in one hour and 20 minute chunks. haley: thank you. annie? office, show up, and vote. i will be brief, i promise.

i really want everyone to take away that there is something that you can do. individual level. everybody's activism does not have to look the same. i get this example often when trying to convince legislators that we should talk about consent in preschool and elementary school. my partner has a dog. a very cute song -- a queue.. there is no research to back this, but young boys will more often than not pet this dog without asking permission. and parents will not do anything. young girls are more likely to ask permission, can i pay your dog? willey don't, parents punish them. thinking about consent and -- insion and every day everyday ways is important. whether you are a doctor, a teacher, a student, a sister, a friend, a parent, an ally, there

is something you can do. my challenge would be not only to vote, but to look at your everyday life. whether it is watching the super bowl last saturday and there was a sexist is commercial on and you didn't say anything, or who you are going to have lunch with after this, i'm getting hungry. think about those things you can do in your everyday life. --ally, it should not be on or incumbent on survivors to end sexual violence and rape culture. i know centering allies is important. i will end on a note that if you are a survivor of sexual you, --, icu, i believe ou, i believe you, what happened was not your fault. i believe you. you're not alone. haley: thank you. think -- this is not just about fathers but men in

general. this is not a matter of daughters. this is a matter of talking to our sons. and being courageous and talking to our sons so they are better men than we are. that is the goal. is a is a commercial but really pathetic commercial of a father and son in the father breaks down and you're waiting for someone to fix the car. roadside assistance. the father goes, this is a good opportunity to have this conversation. theever the different -- vocal is -- than the roadside assistant comes. and the father is like, whew. men are punks when it comes to this. if being a man is being up andous, shut the -- be courageous. engaged in the conversation. i am tired of this notion of the bottle of masculinity.

at the same time, we're saying, i am going to be accused of saying something wrong. say something wrong, and own it. every conversation. be brave and the conversation. be brave enough to be wrong. that is the challenge -- i know like to get into antagonistic ways, but this is a challenge to men. enough of this already. say the wrong thing. have the conversation. be engaged in the conversation. if you don't, you are hurting your son. -- women ared saying it will happen at the tip of the spirit are you better wake up. if we as men don't say, hey, we need to wake up and help our sons and this is also same philosophy around higher education. do i want to be at an institution if i'm a college president where my men at my institution know how to behave in the workplace?

or do i want to be at an institution where we say, no, we like our frat boys because they donate well to the institution. or do i want my men leaving this institution knowing how to function in an egalitarian workplace and relationships. that's what we should be striving for. if i'm a dad and i see my son, do i want my son to be the guy who's going, hey, yeah, i'm an olympic-grade swimmer and i'm at stanford on scholarship, but i raped an unconscious woman behind a dumpster. where is the dissonance in our culture that we don't see that as an absolute failure of men, of raising our sons to be better people? instead of defending their behavior, we should be ashamed that those men are living in the same decade that we are. because we haven't given them the tools to be better people. so i say to men, this is on to use the expression, this is on us to raise the next generation of men to be better than we are. [applause] haley: thank you.

some concrete takeaways. i'll paraphrase in c-span-friendly language. be quiet. listen. be engaged. and then be brave, right? actually step up and face these things head on. the worst thing that happens to you seems to be that somebody's mad at something you said and the stakes of this debate, as we've talked about today, are so much higher for survivors and potential future survivors. thank you so much to our panel. at this point, i'm going to turn things over to gary, who you have met already. do we have time for questions? let's take a question. >> our first question is on facebook live. speaking of technology. haley: this question comes from someone who's following along on facebook live. she is also a vital voices global leadership awards honoree. the question is, what does the panel think of the #mentorher campaign? it seems very patriarchal and sends the wrong message that

women need help. how can we get our business leaders to stop patronizing women and sending them the wrong message through their organizations? >> michael? michael: michael. [laughter] michael: i think the context of this is very, very important. i share the same kind of discomfort with the hashtag, with the idea it seems to be a rescuing or condescending idea. but in the corporate world, i work with a lot of companies. mentorship programs, sponsorship programs are vital for people to be able to navigate successfully their rise in the corporation. we know that mentorship programs, and especially sponsorship programs, mentoring programs basically are, you're basically a cartographer. you take someone under your wing and you help them map the company. and then you're kind of a civil

engineer, right? you help them build a bridge from one part of it over this obstacle or something. and then you are a cheerleader, you say, you go. and it seems to me, i've worked with a lot of these mentoring programs internationally. they tend to be successful, and women like them. and they're successful. they're effective. so in the corporate world, that idea of mentoring has a somewhat different -- it has different connotations for us. and the research, by catalyst on this is really quite persuasive as well. on the other hand, i had the same reaction when i heard it. which is, eek, this is one of those moments where, you know, it sounds like it's inviting men to rescue damsels in distress. like, we'll take it from here. we'll help you. i always think that that results

in something that i like to call premature self congratulation for the men. i'm not thrilled about it. i go both ways on that. haley: annie, don? don: i'm sorry. [laughter] haley: do we have time for one more? >> yes. >> my name is lisa. and i'm coming from the international organization for migration. i just have a question in regards to the study that you spoke of. you mentioned some examples, some gray areas of sexual harassment and where you noted that you saw in the study that men over the age of 60 were more likely to not be so aware that their actions were inappropriate. how do we hold people that are currently in their positions at the top, how do we hold them accountable?

because right now, it's a lot of he said, she said, how do you prosecute that a lot of the times? from things that i've heard, those people are maybe placed on administrative leave, or they're moved somewhere else. that's how it's dealt with. so, how do we change that to set the example? michael: and not just simply wave -- wait for the next wave of people to rise to that. you know, this is this is the key question right now. a lot of the accusations that have been levied against some of the people have been 30 or 40-years-old. and i think we have to acknowledge that the rules have changed. my dad worked in a workplace that looked like don draper's. and by that, i mean all the men had all the offices with the windows. and the women, the secretarial pool, were gathered in the center, and sexual access to them was considered a perk of the job.

that was normal. it is not normal anymore. so, the norms have changed. and it is important to say, with that, you know, we then are being invited to retheorize our past behavior. the stuff that we learned in locker rooms, you know, is now not acceptable. we have to acknowledge that. in one respect, we have to hold people accountable for past behavior. on the other hand, i also think that we have to acknowledge that we are playing by different rules. so i think it's important, maybe something in the neighborhood of a truth and reconciliation idea where if we say, i did this, i was taught to do this, i behaved in this way because i thought that was normal. so if i do that, what do i get in return for that? you know, the idea is some kind of reconciliation. i get to come back into the universe of discourse.

i don't get, then well, you did that so you're now exiled. so we have to find a way to both acknowledge what we did and then also find ways to come back and be accountable for it in moving forward. inadequate answer. haley: very short. annie: i think two things. one, we need to talk about accountability. like we're all pretty, c-span, aware. we're very aware of what's happening. we need accountability and that can look like legislation, but it also needs to be cultural shifts and change. and those things, it's the chicken or the egg. they need to happen together, and yeah. i just think accountability is huge, and just because somebody grew up 60 years ago, that might be an explanation, but that is not an excuse. haley: that's right. thank you so much to my fantastic panelists. at this point, i am going to

bring up gary barker to leave with us some final thoughts. [applause] gary: just a quick couple of final reflections. first i want to thank vital voices for hosting us. the staff, and to new america for being part of this. really hard to follow up with any overarching conclusions. we had lots of points. just a couple reflections. one, i was giving a couple of talks in dominoes. davos. you have seen the images if you have not been there, about 2500 white, entitled men, and a growing percentage of women. a lot of nervous men who i think were thrilled when trump came in because they had a reason not to talk about sexual harassment. the main question they kept coming up with was, isn't this going to far? -- too far?

and now feeling uncomfortable. i said, embrace this moment, this is what women have felt like for centuries. of course, that did not get me many friends and i probably will not be invited back. i said, this is a moment of change. that moment where you don't know where you are going. we do it men don't do, and that is, ask for directions. they just ran off to the coffee bar. i do think that is one of the things we have to talk about. which is to say, men, ask for directions. if you don't know if this is harassment, ask. sorry, c-span and all. stop and ask. the other point i wanted to bring up is, i think while we are focused on this me too moment and the issue of harassment, sexual-harassment is not the disease. it is a symptom of this thing called patriarchy and gender inequality. we like to think we have overcome it, that we are done. we have to put it in that framework.

the solution is not a one-off or a 45 minute powerpoint hr departments are doing across businesses. this is the whole sweep of policies we need. it from parental leave to equal pay to 40% of women on boards. norway did it and they do not seem to have sunken into the atlantic. let's remember, this is a bigger picture. third, you heard me make a joke to make facts great again. we do have evidence of things that work. we have things like the center for disease control that have not been put out of did -- put out of business yet, but this administration is trying to. there is data around comprehensive sexual history and sexual violence prevention the cdc has been developing over the years. there is a lot more needed, but they cannot do it if they are being systematically gutted. we are paying attention to a lot of other stuff. that is one of the casualties in this administration we need to pay attention to.

the fourth and final point is, while men should be uncomfortable, and that is ok, and live with that moment, we should add a couple drops of sugar or honey to the water at the end of this. i think this moment also has a potential to be the greatest revolution in our lives as men. which i think several of you alluded to, don in particular. we get to be better men, have the connections we want, acknowledge we don't know everything, that we haven't done the brave things we said we did. we get to be more connected, rounded, happier human beings, which is not a bad thing for us or the planet. part of this is to figure out, we want men in the door to say, we have skin in this game. not to take it over. i love the posters here, to stand down. remember where the conversation started.

not that we are going to take it over, not to re-center it, but to live in a moment to say, our lives can get better in this me too moment. i learned it from these gentlemen, but also the women's whose pictures lead us to be able to say, gender exists and is causing harm and we as men have a stake in it. some of us are conversing after this because we want to say, we did not invent this yesterday. there are things we can put out there in a more unified way. thanks for offering us the space to do this. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> here is a look at our live coverage monday. barack obama and michelle obama at 10 the and veiling of their portraits at the national portrait gallery. supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg talks about her life and career. at thechumer speaks

university of louisville in kentucky. the senate gavels in 3:00. institution looks at u.s. nuclear capability is an modernization efforts. after that, a look at the government's oversight role in national security. week on the communicators, from the consumer electronics show in las vegas, technology industry leaders discuss their latest developments in artificial intelligence. >> you can have it in something as simple as your music playlists. they are using technologies that have machine learning to figure out what movies you love to watch and what music you like to listen to. it can be in your internet, will system, filtering out spam. a automated to system is not person marking things but a computer algorithm using technologies like learning

within ai to do that. on the other end, you can have artificial intelligence towering self driving cars. -- powering self driving cars. it helps a car navigate busy streets. >> watch the communicators monday >> good afternoon. welcome. thank you for joining us here today i'm a master of arts at johns hopkins university them north american freed trade agreement, or nafta, entered into on january, 11994. the agreement was signed by