♪ this week on q&a, investigative journalist michael fabey. he discusses his book "crashback: the power clash between the u.s. and china in the pacific." >> michael fabey, your book -- i had to go to the middle of the book to figure out what it meant. michael: a crash back is when a navy warship does an emergency.

full stop. it is one of the last things you want to do with any kind of ship like that. it happened when the uss cal pence today. two halt a crash. it was meant to represent that. also, in this term, crashback is. in our policy and arrow -- the western pacific too. there was a pendulum shift i want to show in the book. when you did the research in this book, where did you visit we go? michael: i went aboard a chinese worship. i was on heaps of american and australian warships. i went into singapore. throughout the whole region.

>> what was your conclusion? michael: it is that we are engaged in a war of words with china, it is not a cold war, the old-fashioned cold war. it is certainly not a hot war. this is a jostling that is pushing and shoving for the right to operate in international waters. >> all of this research -- when did you finish it? >> i finished writing the book right after the election last year. >> the election in 2016? >> yes. but who was the most interesting character you met? michael: admiral harry harris. he is the commander of the pacific command. he is japanese by birth.

-- he is half japanese by birth. he is the perfect person for that job at this time. more than that, he has a real feel of the pulse of how far you need to go to stop the chinese without escalating to something that creates war. himmember one time, i asked how would he best describe himself? he says i hate to lose. i was one way he described himself. he was an aviator for the navy and he has that look and feel about him as someone who is in charge, knows what he is doing and is not going to stop until he gets it done. >> let's look at video to see who admiral harris is. >> nobody including me once conflict. i have been loud and clear that i prefer cooperation so that we can share our security challenges.

but i have also been loud and clear that we will not allowed the shared domains to be closed down unilaterally. no matter how many bases are taste on artificial features in the south china sea. >> when did you first meet him in what kind of admiral was he? michael: at the time i met him. he just made admiral, he was in charge of the pacific fleet. this would have been 2013, he had just taken charge out there. i met him out in honolulu. he had just come aboard and the press out there, in the western pacific was full of stories, especially in the chinese press about concerns over his heritage. everyone knew how he felt about the pacific and the chinese were worried. they were worried that there would be someone who would take a much tougher stance. his predecessor said the biggest concern is climate change.

admiral harris was not about to say that. >> where is he? michael: he is in charge of the pacific command. in the spring, he ones that down. right now he is out there -- there have been reports of the freedom navigation at that and our ships sail in the natural -- international waters. he has run this operation and things like that right now. >> admiral harris is have chinese, half american. >> japanese. big difference. >> he was born where? michael he was born in japan. : so his father by then and she's in the navy, his mother had calmed from one of the bombed out cities and going to work on naval bases there. basically with the idea of finding and american husband. the two of them met and then

after that he was over in the west pacific. then he grew up in kentucky. he was raised trueblue american. >> where did he go to school? michael: kentucky. >> what is the significance of being halfow -- and japanese and we are talking about the relationship to the united states with china. michael: from his point of view, especially from growing up, his mother, he got a sense of the asian philosophy, very patient. a group of people willing to a -- to wait generations. but in his current position, the chinese have a very gut level reaction to the japanese going back centuries. especially pre-world war ii. there is a sense among the chinese people of some of the things that were done when japan invaded china at that time that had not been forgotten.

there was a sense that it was half japanese and therefore he has something against china. he is going to take action that is going to be seen as anti-chinese. that is the way they felt. >> this is not a picture but it is a drawing of the map of that area. i want to put it on the screen and have you explain as much as you can about but that is all about. michael: this is an idea of -- china considers to be this its territory. that is the biggest issue going on right now. this area is some of the largest area for international shipping and international trade as well as areas represented by our allies like japan and south korea. the philippines on and off. we are having trouble with vietnam are now. you try to reestablish vietnam. we are going to have aircraft carrier calls.

right now, you can get an idea -- china is saying -- he's china sea, south china sea, that is their territory. so, everything alone there basically they said -- if you want to sell here, you have to get our permission and everything like this. the u.s. condition is this is the international skies and we will do what we want. now, the top of the east china sea, those were surveillance ships and for the most part that was chinese their time forces. -- chinese maritime forces. they were working with some of the government forces and things like that.

down in the south china sea and the south of hong kong, this is one of the most important places where chinese militaries and secret subbase is. a big buildup if you will, you have the ep three incident. it is one of our surveillance aircraft and it was taking some pictures and things like that. right as it was doing that, it had the chinese aircraft that went up that basically started doing some kind of aggressive actions toward an aircraft. they had had this happen before. in this particular case, it was a collision and the chinese aircraft was lost. the ep three was forced to land. they found the crew and they were sent back.

-- theyt the air pack sent the aircraft in pieces. >> what is the ep? michael: it is a very large aircraft, it is similar to the size of the 737. it is filled with this incredible amount of intelligence gathering information, sensors that can take pictures, sensors that can take all kinds of signals. basically, one big vacuum cleaner. >> how many american sailors would be on that ship? michael: you have a dozen or more at any given time. >> what is international law when that plane was flying over that area of the map. michael: basically, there going to keep on going straight. they have the right-of-way. >> go to the pilot of the chinese jet. who was he and someone about what he did.

michael let's be was known : before then as being a very aggressive pilot. this was someone who would come up against american aircraft and the airstream would bump the plane. there would force the aircraft course.orce -- off its he had been known for doing that. in this case, he was coming up, basicallys over and flying circles around our aircraft very close and very dangerous. >> how did that accident happened? michael: this particular aircraft had a issue with stalling. a jet fighter is going to have to go very slow to go side-by-side with some of this. they think he was trying to maneuver and lost control and flipped up into the plane and the prop is going to cut that aircraft in half almost. >> what happened to him? michael: he was never found.

they don't know if he ejected, but both he and his aircraft was lost. >> what did china do in relationship? he was killed and our plane landed on the territory. michael: what happened after that -- this was going to the bush administration. first they were trying to treat our folks like spies. they were put into a couple different holding areas and do it all kinds of interrogations and things like that. first as spies and secondly as landing on chinese soil without permission. he sent out may days and try to contact the chinese. -- nois nothing to verify

way of knowing if he did. someone with his experience would do something like that. this is what they were trying to charge them with. you had this -- china wanted an apology from the u.s. and the u.s. was loath to apologize for doing something that it was allowed to do -- you are allowed to fly international space is fine. very recently we had some information to come out about a russian ship. it was in her national waters -- it was international waters. the u.s. was not about to apologize for something you're going to do anyway. they cannot was an idea of apologizing for the death of a pilot. we are sorry on of your pilots died.

in china, an apology goes across everything. but we were saying very specifically apologizing. this is like admitting wrong. at that point in time, -- this was a lot of back and forth. the crew was finally allowed to leave after a couple weeks. the plane however, was taken apart in pieces and finally sent home to the u.s. and after that, the amount of intelligence, not so much capability but they now knew what our capabilities were with that aircraft. that was our premier spy. >> i want to jump to 2013. we thank abc 10 is an san diego for this because you started talking about the cruisers incident.

let's watch what they were reporting back then. >> they had to make a dangerous turn in the south china sea to avoid the chinese ship that pulled in front of it. but a chinese government run newspaper is accusing the u.s. navy of harassing chinese ships. the uss cowpens got too close. they said they were in international waters. but china has declared the south china sea of its own. >> you are smiling? michael: i was. the whole idea that they would be harassing the chinese ramada. it is kind of interesting. the other thing is that the one thing that wasn't reported is that when china sent out the now, butthey have two at the time that was their only carrier. they declared this 27 square mile no operator around the

carrier. it was like a floating island and had said this is our territory now. there was no precedent for that in history. the u.s. was not going to acknowledge that. the whole idea that they were harassing the armada of chinese ships, that says a lot about the chinese ships if they work harassed by a single cruiser out there. >> who was the skipper? michael: the captain was a rising star in the u.s. navy at the time. he had commanded a destroyer before this. he was someone who was really destined for bigger things out there. he was given a job which before this incident was honestly these

were pretty old at the time. were ancient compared to some of the newer cruisers. they were ready to put it next to a dock. instead, they basically set we have an idea now, we're going back to the western pacific, is a part of the rebalance. in the latter parts of the obama years, the rebalance of our forces in the western pacific. the pivot, rebalance, whatever you want to call it, exactly. listen, we have this cruiser, it is best. it's a highly armed ship. let's put it out there for a rogue patrol. like a lone wolf patrol. we have some presence out there and so this i get a crew ready that is on another cruiser. they worked with one of the best

new combat systems around and we're going back to a ship that was let go from an iphone 10 to one of the flip phones. firsthis job was to get that ship and crew together in a short. of time and then he went out to see with him. >> what happened to him? michael: after this incident did not have a very fruitful career. he got sick and there is a question of how sick he was, i talked to quite a few times and it seemed that he was pretty sick. he spent a lot of time in his cabin after this. >> you talk about the two different cabins on the praise. -- on the cruiser. this is closer to the bridge and this is basically the port. that is when dignitaries come aboard.

and he was at this nicer cap and for most of the time. part of it was because of the sickness. >> what kind of sickness? michael: palsy. >> tells palsy. it doesn't stop you from communicating. michael: he was running the ship as much as he could from the cabin. >> when did people start raising concerns? michael: the incident that happened with the chinese armada in early december. by the end of december and january is when there were concerns. it wasn't so much about him being in the cabin, there are captains with idiosyncrasies but it was because he spent a lot more time with his xo. >> what synnex oh? michael the executive officer. : he sent his regular xo packing because he thought the regular

xo had lost the faith and control of the crew. his chief engineer moved over, and this was a woman named destiny savage. there was some banter around the crew that the captain and the xo were having relations. >> was it just banter? michael: around the crew. when they came back a whole , bunch of things happened. we took the ship out, it was in horrible shape. by all accounts he got into just good enough. when he came back with it, it was in bad shape, not as bad as when he took it out but it wasn't in bad shape. how much of that was to do with the fact that he wasn't on the bridge a lot? and that you can only take a broken car so far, whatever, it is hard to say but when it came back, it was in bad shape.

he asked the navy review team to come aboard and give a report to him over what kind of shape it was. when the review team started coming aboard is when they found out about the banter about this possible extracurricular activity. basically he lost his boat and his command. they said it was because of the way the ship was -- the shape of the ship. when you talk to people in and out of the pentagon, they were there at the time and was in command of the pacific side -- if you talk to everyone, it has never been called that. that is the way they felt it was. >> she was a lieutenant commander. what happened to her?

michael: they were both able to leave this service. they were kicked out but they were not able to leave the service. >> the chinese aircraft carrier. you said they were to -- michael: the original was a hand-me-down. it belonged to the ukraine. it was a very interesting story -- china first bought it that way will make a floating casino. meeting place. that is what the cover story was. they took it and fixed it up and made an operational carrier. in the meantime, what they've done is in this light design and build their own aircraft carrier. pretty recently they just launched that and it was tested. >> let's look at some video of the awning. there is a big difference in our aircraft carriers.

tell us what the differences. michael: the biggest difference is how they launch recover aircraft. it is a very sweet talking ship. it has that ski slope up there and basically uses the jets thrust. you have the heat shield on the back to give it a push for the , most part it is the jet taking off. on our u.s. carries with to use the catapult systems. in that thing we are throwing that jet off of there. as a result, we can put up aircraft carrying more weaponry, operate in different kinds of weather and that is that. >> what are they doing with this carrier? michael: they are using it as a training ship for the most part. they are learning how not only to operate on a carrier but a carrier in a strike root. it is a major logistical nightmare.

the u.s. has owned for the last 70 years. >> how many do we have? michael: right now we have 10. we just recently said we're going to have 12. that is the idea, to have a dozen going forward. out in the pacific, we have the only forward based carrier in the world. >> what does that mean? michael: its base is japan right now. for everything else, on the east coast side, the carriers -- based out of san diego. that is their base. in this case, it's base its home port is in japan right now. >> what does it do over there? michael it patrols the region. : you have a task force that is going around the region. destroyers, cruise -- these ships will peel off.

they will do some solo missions here and there. it will operate drills and it will make port calls. it is a beat cop doing drills constantly. that is its big job. if anything were to happen like a natural disaster or something like that -- you have the aircraft going in and dealing supplies and aid and things like that. >> you talk about some of the chinese captains and admirals. is the captain still there? michael no, he is not, i don't : know where he has gone. >> what did you think of him? michael i did not meet him but i : have talked to some people who have. he is someone who is very engaging, very intelligent. he is very pleasant. he speaks english. he was the one who talked with gomberg.

they settle things out that day before they escalated too far. he is regarded as someone -- i can tell you on our side that people were very impressed with him. he was the chief of naval operations. >> is he no longer the head? michael: admiral greener is a former submariner. he starts off everything by saying i don't know much -- quite honestly he knew a lot. >> what role did he play between the united states and the chinese? michael he felt that his job was : to keep things from escalated too far and the best way to do that was to develop a strong relationship out there. he would always be looking for ways to get us engaged with core

exercises. we invited the chinese to come. off the coast of hawaii for the first time. he was very much a guy who would lean forward and shake your hand. let's get to know each other. gave his point personal number admiral lu. two>> his own mobile phone number? michael: the admiral said that i can't give you mine. the pentagon people were not happy with that interaction. >> what was admiral lu's job? how did you meet him? michael: he grew up in a communist regime.

he is very party minded. he is also very chinese minded. the chinese are a very patriotic people. they call china the motherland. they really do. he is also considered a top-notch mariner, someone who is very much into it with growing the navy, modernizing the navy and making sure they act appropriately. it was him who not only agreed to do a special set of drilling also his forces, but offices -- his officers would learn english so that they could do drills properly. >> you said there are 12 chinese nuclear subs, there are 30 other subs -- 75 missile destroyers,

70 amphibious ships, four helicopter landing ships and 60 carrier aircraft that would be on the aircraft carrier -- how does that compare with the united states? michael: overall it is a very small portion. overall. >> give me a better idea. we have 11 aircraft carriers and they have two. now,el: for destroyers we're up to 115. at any point we have 40 or 50 out there, we had a half dozen cruisers. more than that actually i'm , thinking operational. >> what is the difference? michael: a cruiser is slightly bigger. what a cruise includes is that you have a whole separate area that you can do more to set -- defense operations and also for

command and control. the cruiser is your big air command, and defense type of ship. >> when did the chinese into -- begin to build a significant navy? michael: the seeds were sown in 1995 or 90 61 president clinton sent over to carriers to try to get them to stop shooting missiles over toward taiwan. that, first of all there was a public shaming. face.inese lost a lot of it is hard for westerners to get an idea of what that means to the asian culture. especially something as big and proud as china.

they came with the never again mentality. they start with this mindset that we will build up our navy and our missile defense forces in such a way that we knew -- never this space like this again. put a ship ever import in china? michael: yes, we did. we go to hong kong, sometimes we can do that annually. there has been trouble with the u.s. and china. host: there are other parts.

-- michael: there are other ports. brian: do the chinese ships visit the united states? michael: yes. the chinese our motto was over in honolulu. brian: the chinese attitude is we can do it to you but you can to do it to us. what is that mean? michael as far as china is : concerned, in the very specific incident -- when the chinese ships were anticipating impact i happens to be on the uss ronald reagan aircraft at the time and they were saying is that? it is. it was just -- why would they send a spy ship? they had sent the spy ship to every other impact before. but the idea was that you are coming, you are participating. what made -- what they make there was that we are going to do some of our operations now, especially from the aircraft. we do not publicly complain and the idea was look -- you have a right to be there.

so go ahead, that is fine. so that's time when we were -- when we are in international waters are collecting intelligence, he will leave us alone, but that didn't happen. there were a couple of incidents, especially some aircraft incidents over the other south china sea where the chinese started complaining. they started sending aircraft up and everything like that. brian: let me show you video of something that we have seen a lot, a man-made islands off the coast of china. how many of these are there?

michael: there are dozens. brian: they are all man-made? michael: here is the thing, you have these areas that have a little bit of area popped up. but they have done is gone over at low tide and build them up. you have these errors and things like that that they have created into these as part of and. you go back about a decade and a decade and a half and they're putting on the asphalt and some like that. filipinos did it for a while, vietnamese did it for a while. china kind of came late to the game. but they did it in their own way and they do so much better. they took regular islands and they just expanded it. so that it can hold a military aircraft runway. so it could hold surface to air missile sites and things like that. brian: how many do they have? michael: right now, believe there is about three or four that can actually handle that

kind of aircraft. brian: as far as they are concerned, it is their territory? michael: as far as they are concerned, the whole child -- south china sea is there territory. brian: one of the international goals about the 12 mile limit? michael: the three-mile limit is our territory and everything like that. you have the 12 mile limit and that is consider their territory. the economic zones. the 200 mile limit is the economic zones because we on the rights to do whatever is in the for that. oil, whatever it might be. brian: do the chinese recognized the limit? michael: they do when it suits their needs. brian: do what we? -- do we? michael: we do -- some international agreements we have not signed into. basically, there are some domestic oil, is interest abroad

that don't necessarily want the u.s. signing our names on the dotted line that can hurt or delay. there is some stipulations that we've had issues with, we recognize it anyway. brian: how close do we allow chinese aircraft to come to this country? will recognize every ship. every ship can come into that air. u.s. isip as far as the concerned, if it is international you can do it. operations in mentioned before, we do that in the south china sea. canadianurs are in waters. it shows that we are allowed to go here, so we are going to go here. so we just as a matter of course, that is what we do. that has been our mantra. we are here to make sure that

these waters are open to everyone. v.p. biden: this is old footage, but it goes back, it is old. you write in your book before we look at this -- what are the islands? this island group, the south china sea has spread across a pretty large area and both sides are within the territories. 1988 and itis a shows some firing going on here. who is firing? opening the chinese are up. brian: at the chinese are firing. what happened after this incident? michael: after this incident, china took it over. brian: you write about the

different relationships between china and other asian countries over there. if me a quick synopsis. what is the relationship between china and japan? michael: very contentious. still. brian: south korea? michael: contentious. .ot as much as japan and china china would like to see a unified korea. they think that was it them pretty well. therefore i think they are willing to back off south korea a little bit. vietnam?ina and michael: always contentious. the border down there is extremely coarse. there's a lot of back and forth between because there's been a

lot of intermixing of the people down there. there's always been the sense that china will could come in whenever they wanted. brian: china and the philippines? michael: that has gone back and forth. filipinopends on the , forionship with the u.s. example. when the u.s. was very close to backed uppines, china the philippines for a little bit, at least publicly. for example, when we were no longer there, china would come into some of the islands that the two sides were claiming territory for. it ebbs and flows. brian: china and taiwan? michael: that is the big question. as far as china is concerned, there is only one china and that is taiwan.

there was a major status quo will be there that has existed for a long time. it will probably exist for the foreseeable future. if you remember back when chairman mauer and kissinger were talking and taiwan came up and he said, we don't have to worry about it now. 100 years from now will be fine. china'sou write about ship-killing missiles. michael: df21's. brian: why do you call them ship-killing? michael: there has been this desire to create a ballistic missile that can hit a moving ship or a moving ship group. it is externally difficult to do. ballistic missiles -- they come down with a set course in mind and there is not much thought after that.

with the ship group, you have to maneuver it, you have to communications back and forth. very difficult to do and no one has really been able to do it until about 6-7 years ago, china claimed to have this capability. that they had ballistic missiles that were very hard to defend against. and those type of anti-ship missiles we are pretty good about those but ballistic missiles are different animal. they operate differently. they operate up in the areas of space where they are hard to detect sometimes. very hard to defend when they are coming down and coming closer. it is very tough. china says, we have a missile that can do this. this puts our aircraft carriers at much greater risk if that really proves to be true.

ship weret chinese you on? michael: a guided missile destroyer. brian: when were you on it? michael: 2014. brian: narratives on the screen. you have been on a lot of american ships. what is the quality like compared to american ships. michael: a very, very capable ship. this is very capable ship. their systems, provided they work as they are supposed to work, provided that crew operates in the way they are supposed to operate them, they would be a very lethal adversary. you go back a generation, there one-child designation. little boys were brought up as

little things. everything was provided for. they were told to believe that they were the best. that was their sense of the world, if you will. chineseo right now, navy, becoming of a sirs, they have a sense of entitlement. that their time is now, they have the capability, training, though resources. their time is now. writing: i kept thinking reading your book that china owns one trillion dollars of our debt. seven hundred us billion dollars ear and trade. we don't send them anything close to that. so why would they want to mess with us? michael: you go back in history, who would've thought world war i would happen. we had extremely tightknit trading partners during the war at that time.

depending upon economics to prevent a global escalation of that, i just think his full hearty. there are so many different things that could lead to it. you go back to the cowpens incident. ramming those ships. another incident. things have a way of going off on their own trajectory. that is what the book is about. a lot of books that look at these topics are policy books. what i tried to do is put people on the bridges of the aircraft and the ships. to get an idea. any given time, whether or not we want to open with china could depend on the action or inaction of a commanding officer. brian: tell us more about your background. where you work full-time? writer: right now i am a

for james. it is a company that specializes in providing promotional, mostly defense publications. stuff like that. brian: how long if you been there? michael: i have been working for -- well, i started as year ago.ver a brian: i know you grew up in a family where your father was a marine. did you do any service time yourself? no i did not, but my father brought me up like a little maureen. as far as i'm concerned i did my time. brian: where you from originally? what kind of education did you have? michael: i grew up in philadelphia and i went to catholic schools. i went to college in trenton.

then i went abroad to australia for a semester. writing: where have you spent most of your work time over the years? michael: i started off with the cutting your teeth on local newspapers. but over the last decade i have been working for various trade publications as they are called. aviation week was one of them. brian: this book is been out since last october. what reaction have you gotten from it? michael: for the most part, -- one was an] alarmist view. they said, i don't think that is true. i think it is a pretty clear portrait. not alarmist, but this is what is going on. for the most part, people and [indiscernible]

medicine and sugar. they seem to like it. you have a lot of personalities in the book. one is called "nasty." nasty? michael: he is a former f-14 pilot. one of the brightest military minds i have met. but also someone who is able to kind of basically put a really good perspective about where america sits in the world. [indiscernible] -- brian: here he is a couple of years ago talking about the four classes carrier.

is nasty. >> when we look at the future and the way the world is going, we devised this with greater generation capability. with enhanced technology and capacity. with an ability to increase getting planes on-and-off the ship. and other things around the ship. looking at threats around the world is what delivered the requirements that resulted and the design you see today. brian: the average first and could not understand all that. what was he saying? michael: with this war class, you can fire -- you can carry a lot more aircraft. at any even time. basically, you can get up there speed if you want.

that is one of the things he was getting at. newuse they put in these technologies, they have a whole new way of launching aircraft off. [indiscernible] onesld-fashioned hydraulic shoots it up the carrier. brian: i just read today that the ship might cost as much as $70 billion. 17 billion dollars. michael: that thing you have to remember is the idea was to take these brand-new technologies is a way of shooting off the aircraft. the other is how you catch them on. the other way was a brand-new radar system. they were going to electrify the

ship. take out all of the old cables and power system and put in a brand-new electric power system that would not only make it more efficient but include power you could put in if you want to. lasers, energy weapons later on. the idea was to have a three-ship original class. not total class but a three-ship plan that you would have different technology on each of the ships and you could basically take that price and spread it out against three ships.nt instead, transformational, we ship.l technology on one i mean, that just clearly blue the price of the carrier through the ceiling. smarthink it was a decision? i think when the ship gets out

there and is going through its paces, you will see people saying wow, this thing can really -- brian: do you think the chinese can knock that out? michael: not if it works like it is supposed to. here is the thing, china has never tested that weapon. we do not know. not even a moving target. a stable big old thing. f-35? how is our the new plane that cost so much money. how does it compare with their jet? michael: there is no comparison to be perfectly honest. it is because of the holistic nature of the f-35. to get away from the price, as you mentioned, a very expensive

aircraft. let's get away from that for a second. what the f-35 brings is first of stealthy. that means, if everything works it will be hard to hit. it has a sensor suite that this aircraft can collect signals, it can do an electronic attack, it can be used in ways that no aircraft could before. this aircraft is going to basically change the way they actually do some air operations off of the carriers especially. brian: meanwhile, the navy has had some problems. here is the new chief of naval operations john richardson talking about this last year. drugs 2017 was the year of triumph and tragedy for our navy. we consistently full-deployed more than 60,000 sailors around the globe. our navy experienced five serious incidences resulting in dedicatedf 20

sailors, american patriots all. our thoughts and prayers remain with our fallen shipmates and their families. , our investigations revealed that these tragedies were due in large part to human error and failures of leadership as we took our eyes off mastering the basics of navigation. talked about it here, there is your's in san diego that is putting people in jail from the navy. including admirals. there are a lot of admirals under suspicion. what is going on with the navy? michael: one of the things going navyth that is the certainly destroyers, cruisers, away from making sure that the ships are seaworthy. that the crews are properly trained. and that they are operating as they should.

there's no doubt that has been happening. they have to get that under control. how are you going to operate a combat system to knock missiles out of the sky if you cannot steer your ship straight. that is the idea. nothing like this has happened during military drills or anything like that. it comes down to combat operations or those kinds of things, we are top-notch. it is this daily stuff. at that thing is, this daily stuff is what they do most of the time. most of the time there on routine patrol when this stuff has happened. brian: let me read at the end of your book two paragraphs. one is short. america 2017 is not the america of 2013. that is only a four-year difference. the next on the chinese navy dangerously confronts a worship on the high seas, it seems unlikely that it will be the american commander who orders the engine room to execute all

emergency. for america and the u.s. navy, the era of-- over.acks seems to be why? michael: we realized a couple of things, one, embrace the chinese. that was the idea during the obama years. it is not working as we thought it would. you have people like admiral harrison out there who started this plan. attention to it in ways we never have. when you look at some of the things that have happened since secretary mattis has just gone out to the region.

to vietnam. the secretary of defense in vietnam, that is a big deal. it is want to drive the chinese knots. it sends out a message. look, this is what we are doing here. and then he is talking about, we are going to act more aggressively about incidents and things in the south china sea. doing operations and stuff like that. i think it appears that what started in that latter part of the obama years, some admirals took power. moving the navy forward. we are on a path, on a course that we're not going to their off of. think south korea, japan, the philippines, vietnam, can the chinese deal with it if they are on our side and close

the south china sea? michael: china is not in a position to do that. china has been too smart. china does not that way. china takes a little piece at a time. then: would you trust chinese? michael: china will do whatever is the best for china. right now, counting on china to help with north korea, it is in china's best interest right now. so keep that in mind, china will always do what is for the best of chinese interest. not the whole region. everything reverts back to china. brian: the name of the book is " crashback." our guest has been michael fabey. thank you.

michael: thank you. ♪ announcer: for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. programs are also available as c-span podcasts. ♪ announcer: if you liked this interview with michael fabey, here are some other two might enjoy. a book about the scandals involving a malaysian defense contractor who bribed u.s. navy officials with cash, prostitutes, and other gift in exchange for a classified information. also, michelle howard talking about her experience in the navy

and becoming the first four-start woman in the navy. find those interviews online at season.org. woman in the navy. find those interviews online at c-span.org. announcer: c-span was created as a public service by america's cable companies and today we continue to bring you are unfiltered coverage of the white house, the supreme court, and policy vents and washington, d.c., and around the country. c-span is brought to by your cable or satellite provider. >> the british house of commons is an recess so prime minister's questions will not be shown tonight. instead we bring you a recent hearing on fake news that is followed by fccmi