supreme court decisions heard in 1819. exploring this case with us are sarah peterson, associate law professor at the university of virginia, and mark killing back, an. watch "landmark cases" life monday, february 26 on c-span, c-span.org, or listen with the free c-span radio app. for background on each case, order a copy of the companion book, available for $8.95 plus shipping and handling at c-span.org/landmarkcases. there is a link on our website to the natural constitution center's interactive constitution. announcer: next, former representatives russ carnahan and donald manzullo discussed sites in the public eye and the challenges of balancing family with the duties of an elected official. from the national archives in washington, this is an hour and a half.

>> good evening, and welcome to the national archives. i'm the archivist of the united states, and it is a pleasure to welcome you here this evening, whether you are here in person, joining us on youtube, or a special welcome to our friends at c-span. we present tonight's program, "meet the better half," in partnership with the u.s. association and former members of congress. we thank them for their support. we have been doing this for six years now. great to have you with us. look forward to six more. before we get started, i'd like to tell you about two other programs coming up next month, actually this month. 6, we will february talk about the new book "jefferson's daughters."

lives.s into their 'll beruary 16, we talking about the book "chocolate city: a history of race and democracy in the nation's capital." to learn more about these and all public programs and exhibit, check out archives.gov and you can sign up at a table outside to receive it by email. another way to get more involved is to become a member of the national archive foundation. the foundation supports the work of the agency, especially the education and outreach activities. their applications for membership in the lobby. has ever been turned down for membership of the national archive foundation. and theonal archives

center for legislative archives preserves the historical records of the u.s. house of representatives and the u.s. senate, but even those voluminous records can't tell the full story of congress's operations. we can't overlook the importance of person-to-person relationships, not only between members, but within members' families. family members give tremendous support to those in public service. back in the revolutionary era, john and abigail adams shared their thoughts in scores of letters, now preserved by the adams papers, now available online. there is a mutual love and concern a family as well as the ideals of a struggling munition. for example, in february, 1776, john wrote, "i send you from your pamphlet, 'common sense ,'and i will send as many papers and pamphlets as i can as

long as i stay here." abigail responded, "i am charmed with the sentiments of 'common sense.' i want to know how these sentiments are received in congress. i say there is no difficulty procuring a vote for independence." the days adams' times, or weeks between letters has been reduced it to instantaneous correspondence. let's now hear from our panelists on carrying out public duties. i welcome to the stage christian english. he's currently the president of the former members of congress auxiliary and a past president of the republican congressional spot. he served in congress froor 14 years, representing the third district of pennsylvania. he spent the first seven years of his congressional term living and working in the district of his hometown of yuri, pennsylvania -- erie,

pennsylvania. after retiring from education, she spent the next several years traveling to and from the congressional district. she graduated from lake erie college, majoring in french, and received a masters degree in english. anshe taught high school french and english for 15 years, and was then coordinator of the high school gifted program. ladies and gentlemen, christianity bush. [applause] >> thank you, david. andas a great introduction, for the many years of partnership involving the national archives in the former members of congress. first, a quick word about the association. of former members of congress in the organization that i represent as president of the former members of congress auxiliary. the auxiliary consists of former

members. we bring together a bipartisan group of over 600 congressman and senators who work together on a wide variety of projects. we strengthen the work of the current congress by promoting a deeper understanding of our democracy and encouraging public service. if you would like to find out more about our project and collaboration, please visit our website. tonight's panel is an example of smc's work to engage the public in a conversation about issues that affect our nation and our democracy. in the partisan era, where tweets and soundbites drive new cycles and politics is seen as an unkind profession for the power-hungry, it is important to step back and remember that our elected officials and their family members make selfless and ground decisions to enter the public eye and dedicate time for

serving in public office. here to moderate our discussion tonight is dr. laura brown. dr. brown serves as a board advisor and director of the graduate school at political management at george washington university. she is a distinguished writer, dedicated scholar, and acclaimed expert on politics. we also have two congressional couples, congressman donald manzullo and his wife, frida, and russ carnahan and his wife, deborah. they will be joining us tonight . i know both of the couples and can attest that they are wonderful people and that you were going to have a very interesting evening. >> the welcome.

so, let me say thank you to our wonderful national archives. thank you to the former members of congress. and to the family members who are here with us and their spouses. thank you for being here tonight. i am very excited about the conversation. i think we will get to share a little bit about about something i think is really important. politics is about people. dore are people who extraordinary public service, and committing time and energy to this life of politics and public service. i think we have a lot to hear about and learn tonight from these families. thank you so much again for being here.

to share who is here on the stage with me because it is exciting. we have former member of the house russ carnahan, a democrat. he served in the house for eight 2005-2018. founding partner of the current hand and carnahan law firm. , freedom and solo -- -- fredazanola manzullo. she was in michigan and earned her bachelor's in english.

very interesting background. she worked in medical technology for many years. manzullo,o -- donald how long did you serve? don: 20 years. lara: next to him -- >> i worked for him. lara: right. he ran for president. don: he did. and you served as a republican, 20 years. is a wonderful selection of individuals who have given time, energy and being in congress,

serving constituents and being with their political parties. i'm hopeful everyone will reflect on and share with our audience. takes a lot of work to run a campaign, it takes a lot of work to get elected and to serve in office. what i am interested in is, how did this begin? what were some of the conversations you had with each other about, do i get in? what district do i run for? should i run for a lower office? how did you decide that congress was it and that you wanted to make part of your life be part of washington?

freda, you start. dating, donwe were was honest enough to say to me he was practicing law in a small -- in a small town but he always dreamed of being a member of congress. i i have to be honest and say would like to run for that seat. and i thought, no the incumbent will stay there forever. i thought it was a safe bet. to then she was encouraged run for senate, which left an open seat and donald said to me, if i do not run now somebody who runs often will stay in for 20 years.

so he felt like this was his opportunity. were 1 --year-old, three-years old, and five-years old. so i was not particularly interested in getting involved with our kids being so young. but this was his dream. how can you as a wife say you don't want your husband to fulfill his childhood dream? so i went along with it. but actually, don had never run for political office before. don: i had run for the school time in illinois at the was defending the most notorious murderer in the county. it was a court appointment. bad timing. [laughter]

don: good for the opponent! debra: i think i knew russ was going to run for local office from the moment he cut in on his best friend who is dancing with me. it was a young democrats event in kansas city. he said hello. as my father-in-law used to say, it's a genetic defect in this family. president of my college on democrats in columbia, missouri. columbia college. russ was statewide president of young democrats. he was in moscow at the time at the university of missouri. -- he was in law school at the time at the university of missouri. so we connected. it kind of throws you to say, he

has from a political family and i was involved in political committees. but to say yes, i'm going to commit. what if we win, then what? to lose but it is a very difficult decision to make because what if you do when? in illinois at my girlfriend's bridal shower and i got this call from rocks and he said, -- and i got this call said, i needd he to talk to. we had been redistricted one block. said, oh my gosh.

can you just give me 24 hours to get home? let me finish this. my friend and her mother were listening like, what is he doing and how? he said, what is 24 hours, people are going to jump into this. he said, i need to start making calls tonight. i said, ok. let's go for it. that is just kind of how you have to roll sometimes. opposite me ask an question. how did you feel when you were running and you were in the campaign. you say thatwould freda was most helpful and most supportive?

ross: i came home from the law office in a town of 30,000 with the family raising beef cattle and we got married, she thought i was a safe bet. this guy is going nowhere. don: i bought this free book on how to run for congress. she said, what does the book safe? friends, 100your of them, each give you $100. silence. on wire whension it to run. idea what i was doing.

wast 47% of the vote which extraordinary. went on to beat me lose to the first of a credit to hold the seat in 100 years. showedeally extraordinary support because i had to make up my mind whether or not to run. notid, freda just tell me to run. system.ut of my she said, i am not going to stand between you and your boyhood dream. so, freda did an extraordinary lift taking care of the kids. throughout the entire congressional district. freda was my chauffeur, like every congressman has today.

>> one family was coming back from about an hour and a half away. we were china to stay awake by trying to remember the names of the state capitals. people inthing only politics do, right? was a family affair. when we first started, don wanted to do this. he printed off all of this literature at his law office and we put it in this little wagon and went to a festival with our kids. but he clammed up when we got there. he said, i just do not know that i can walk up to people and andt introducing myself tell them what we are doing but hours on who was five-years-old -- >> no.

i was the first time so he was five-years old. he just started going up to people and handing the pliers and saying, this is my dad. fascinating some stories. a lot of the starts came from wives who were willing to say, guess what? my husband is running for congress. would you be willing to help with his campaign? so that is how it started these traditions. so i am curious. mrs. carnahan, what about you? how did you deploy your campaign on the trail? her, i had met always been involved in my dad's campaigns. when i was eight-years-old he was running for the legislature and i remember going on this or a van for carnahan. they had a flatbed truck with loudspeakers that went from town

to town on weekends. tothat was my first exposure politics. i had been the scheduler in grassroots campaigns and i had that introduction. i did not really think i was necessarily going to run for office myself. fact, in 2000 i was trying to talk debra into running. i told her, i will be your campaign manager. she declined and eventually i reenter we practiced law together. we worked on campaigns together. andad a good understanding she was always my sounding board people.s, four you are approached by so many people and competing pressures

and decisions. i always knew that i was going to get the straight information from debra. you might not like it sometimes but that was really so important to me throughout the work that i did. >> is so moving on, you win. now what. you move to washington? do you keep the children at home to bring them to washington? >> can you afford washington? huge questions i think every family confronts because i think people say, like in the -- what docandidate" now? [laughter] >> sometimes when i go back and look at pictures of the election went on first one,

when he won the general election -- >> that was -- >> know that was the primary. but when one that general election we just look astounded. we look happy. we look overwhelmed. pictureook back at that , i think, you did not have a clue what you are getting into after that night. for thecame onentation, we only knew another couple and it was because a friend of ours had moved from illinois to michigan between the primary election and the general election. they befriended peter, who was running at the same time. peter had children pretty much the same age as our children and

so we met peter and his wife in michigan about one month before orientations. in fact, the rnc called our friends that night when we are having pizza at his house to ask for money for the parting and he said, you won't believe who is in my house tonight! i have a newly elected member of congress sitting right here. did notht, porcaro, he know that being friends with as he was going to get calls for the rest of his life from the republican party. --s don: freda was homeschooling the kids because it was easier. a big shout out to the archives and library of congress, our kids had an extraordinary opportunity. they got to see the actual

documents. i remember one time we were at the library of congress and one docent,- it was not a it was one of the directors -- reached up, and he pulled down george washington's primer. he handed it to the children. speed. barely but because of the archives, we spent a lot of time here in the theives and the kids got most extraordinary education that i think anybody could get. those documents. in day i was sworn in back they openede here, the doors early and let us in. >> to see the emancipation proclamation.

we were from lincoln -- >> illinois -- >> yes. we came to see that and later on when they newspapers interviewed don, they asked him what was the most important thing that happened during your swearing in days and he said, it was going to see the emancipation proclamation. there and saw the muchture and thought, how did he sacrificed to do the right thing. you hoped you would have the courage to do the right thing for your district. lara: great story. thank you for sharing that. decision. tough i was born and raised in alexandria, virginia. i was fifth generation. all of my family was here. i got to missouri because i

wanted to be a journalist. that is another whole story. then going to law school. that is what took me out to columbia, missouri. in a place andre they were like, mom we do not want to move to washington. onegotiated with them that child would leave his school later and then start. my eldest had it the worst, he had to leave for his high school in his junior year. we moved to alexandria after the first apple years and they got to graduate from my high school. i liked that because so much of my children's world has been in missouri, which was my new home, but they had not spent a lot of time out here. so i really felt it was a positive thing for us to be around cousins and and send uncles and grandparents and history. difficult because if you

or livedthe district in alexandria or fairfax county, expensive schools and homes. we were paying to mortgages. it seemed like we were always broke. we're paying these to mortgages. my kids were like, when we ever of any money? i'm like, we have two houses. it was held on me because i wanted to come to washington, i wanted to be here. i was helping to set up the office, helping to determine the hiring. we were doing all of that together. month out about once per i think. then it was also still on the bench. so i would have to leave my bench. sometimes when the boys moved here i stand on the bench for a while -- i stayed on the bench for a while. sometimes we would see each

other night airport and he would be like, hi babe! hi babe!ld be like, later we would work together and take meetings together. i eventually retired my .udgeship it is hard. my youngest son will probably just hate this, but andrew was going to school, middle school. home and cry at night and say, mom i miss my friends. i feel like i am at camp and i am never going home again. they don't get to go back home and see their friends as often. russ was going almost every weekend and i was going, but they were away from everything they knew. i think was pretty rough on them

for a while. >> as it's good example of just how deeply personal it is in how you juggle. to make things more complicated, you have political pressures. is worried, if debra moves the kids to washington and are they can do think she is gone washington? you won't be in the district anymore. you are balancing all of this stuff. at the end of the day you have got to do what works for your partner and your kids and your family. you figure it out. there is no one model that works. you have to figure out what works. >> i think the reason the propelled us in the decision-making and policymaking here was that i saw when he came , he instantlyays

started working. he worked friday, saturday, sunday. then monday you turn around and go back. want to talk to when you're out. if you is at a ballgame, his kids were standing there going, "dad!" when they were here, he would maybe get home by 7:00 or 730 attendedmaybe something at school. getlt that was a way to more quality family time. >> i agree with that. and you have to make a decision. when we got married, freda was 25 and i was 38. i made a decision that our family would come first. we moved the family out here.

people thought we had four children. i said, know this one is my wife. [laughter] don: i would go home every other weekend. i can't remember -- someone said, the congressman is not coming home this weekend because this is his weekend with his kids. because they were homeschooled, they got to go on a later clock so i would get back from the office and they were still awake. they would sleep in in the morning. with myspend more time kids is a member of congress than most guys who work and travel.m. that was a priority because if i could not govern my family, was not capable of working for the nation. came first. lara: nurse and important story about how former representative

rahm emanuel had recruited someone to office. he was nervous about jumping in. worried about not seeing the children. about oneourse of week, every single minute that rahm emanuel was with his children, he would call and say -- i'm with my kids of the baseball game. then he would hang up. he would say, i'm with my kids taking them to school -- then he would hang up. he did this every week to recruit him and say, you're not going to lose touch. but it is hard. bags i did not go in for any special positions, rules not go in -- >> i did for any special positions, any rules committees. when i wasmember there, i would tell them that is what we care about.

is ani think this interesting issue. the constituents want you there but then they say they want you to be doing legislation here. >> the well was poisoned when someone said, it when you move you won'tton then have to commute and everything. this is what started the strife and everything that was going on. that is when the approval rating started to go down because everybody said, yes. then you would wonder, why would you want to work in a place that stinks? lara: there was sick conversation that was able to be had when families were here all the time. -- there was conversation to be one families were here all the time.

the children could go to school together, everyone would see each other at the games. across the aisle you can have conversations that were social, not just political. whatguess out of this, would you tell a brand-new member of congress? a newly-elected freshman, they come to and say -- what do i do about all of these things? >> what do we tell the member what do we tell the spouse? know,ot of people don't there is a great program, the big sister program. we are probably going to change that now since we have spouses that are also men. likectually volunteer, volunteer to take in the spouse that is coming in and talk with them, partner up with them, let them know about the different events and clubs and this and that. things to look for. how to push back on the staff.

things like that. [laughter] >> i think i would tell them to figure out for themselves how involved they want to be. because everybody is individual. don feel bad if somebody is doing more or whatever. member and spouse i would say it is very important to figure out ahead of time what you are parameters are. what the involvement is. russ would never have a scheduling meeting without me there. wantld say, please tell me make a decision. because a lot of times you have to be the leader to your staff to let them know. they will work you. it is important to know, what are your parameters. they will work you, they will. i used to call russ the football.

throws him back, they have a pass. you have to work on that. i think it is important. the spouse come from to communicate it to the staff. freda: i tell people the number one people you have got to get to know on the staff is the scheduler. the scheduler has to be somebody you feel comfortable talking to, because you have to be able to say, these are the things that are happening in our family that are untouchable events. disappointing that may be your husband is going to miss out on some opportunity but there will be other opportunities. it is more important that he actually gets to the family events. lara: setting priorities. >> everybody's going to be

different. look how many members of congress there are. we are as different in viewpoints and backgrounds and how we have our families set up. very individualistic. there is no cookie-cutter formula. and obviously, geography. i think this is something like how then-senator biden was so lucky. he could hop on amtrak. it was easy to make the commute to the district. you raise an interesting point. we have an unprecedented number of women who are saying they want to get into this game and run for office. what does that mean for spouses in washington when we probably will start seeing some men in this role of spouse? formerme just say as a spouse --

>> and the current spouse! [laughter] >> i had someone walk up to me once and say, are you an ex-spouse? [laughter] the male spouses. bob pelosi is like the head spouse and the them a crop circle. headcome to events -- heads in the democratic -- democratic circles. members were fantastic. they give you a lot of recognition. a lot of respect. a lot of understanding. you are not just not seen and

passed over to the side. was really wonderful. they usually make a big point of recognizing spouses and talking about the contribution of spouses at events. that is really important. lara: any thoughts? >> when someone comes to me and says, i think about running for congress my first question is -- where's is your wife at? say, wears her husband on it? i would say, wears your wife #if there is any hesitancy, you cannot do this. franklin pierce his wife did not even know that he was elected president until he was actually elected. she was very upset. it was horrible because the family was on the way from new hampshire to washington and the

train overtime. therely casualty was 10-year-old who was killed. their only child. not know her husband was running for president. unbelievable. yes, and your spouse can make or break you, you know? marriage is hard enough as it is, right? without being in the political life and running around living in two different places. the back-and-forth. it is quite challenging. it helps to be on the same page, especially if you care about keeping your family together. right? it is an important role. mom notma happy, nobody's happy. at least's in my family. >> i will add to that. there are some very special

events and opportunities and we a point of doing that together. theg together, bringing kids. it is a great honor to be able to participate. is apouses, whether it toan or man in addition getting to know the scheduler, identifying those staff members involved in issues you care about. if it is health care, education, canever the issue is so you be involved in those issues and events that have to do with that. there are great opportunities for spouses to do that. for the member, my advice would -- speakinge that of rahm emanuel -- that freshman "this is thee said most bipartisan thing you will ."er do in congress

he said, after this your party will divide you and pitcher against each other and you will have to make a special effort and find those special friendships. whether you are the minority or majority in congress, having those relationships on the other side is really, really important. there will always be something where you are going to have to go to somebody on the other side to try to get something done or to build a coalition and that is where you have to take special care. >> rahm emanuel has been a friend of ours for years. we're talking to him right after freshman orientation. he said, what i do with family is i tell them you have one day. .ne day on the weekend now, if you decide to schedule me for something on sunday, do on expect to see me

saturday. and feist first up. you really have to guard that because what happens is -- and i tried that but it did not work all that well. because what happens is, you -- it is just one event. but it is one hour getting ready for the event, driving to the one hour is at least because no event is just half of an hour, it doesn't happen. say, the stuff want to debra i know you cleared saturday but it is just one little event. and i'm like, do not even try with me. this is for a horse here. for hours here -- this is four hours here. that is never going to stop. that is the nature of the beast.

advantagesone of the of homeschooling is we were able to spend big chunks of time in illinois and then big chunks of time in virginia. what my kids liked about being in virginia was that the weekend that their dad would stay here, this was not his district. so he was hours for the whole weekend. enjoyed when they got to high school age, when we had homeschooled them through eighth grade and when the oldest one was heading to high school, ofweighed the pros and cons where did we want him to do high school. did we want to get back in illinois where our public school to do it herewant and a private school which was a little bit more expensive for us . he opted to stay here because what he wanted was to have the

distance between where his dad was being a representative and where he was going to school and making friendships. because unless he shared with people from his class what it wasthat his dad did, he just another kid in the classroom. he was not a special kit in the classroom. so i think you have to kind of -- a special child in the classroom. you have to figure out, what is the best place for your kids. lara: let's talk about that challenges. i think it would be good to also about being part of the congressional family. what is so exciting and makes you want to be engaged in politics and public service? >> well, i think the problem

civilityh the lack of is that people do not appreciate and respect the house of representatives. that is where we are from. shedealize that blood was in several wars just to have the opportunity to get up and debate. i had the opportunity to work a man from 1964-1967 when i went to american university. a job that lasted for five of the six semesters, i was paid staff. he had three full-time and two part-time. that was it. the time was that he spat with his children. he had five children. spent with his children.

he had five children. the respect he had for the house. ran, every time it was time to raise my hand to take the oath i could never get through the words. i would start weeping. 10 times. my kids were looking at me like there goes dad again. but it was the awesome sense that maybe 11,000 people in history of this great republic have had the honor and opportunity to represent literally hundreds of thousands of people and to be in a position to impact their lives. to change the course of the nation. you do it because you respect the institution. --first bill that passed henry and i had three things in common. american, we were

both members of congress, we on that team. that was it. and we amended the clean air act of 1990. washington, the law had to be changed, henry waxman was on the subcommittee. it took our staffs six months to begin to trust each other. to overcome the institutional barriers of a political partisanship. we worked together, came up with a change on that. i said, that is how laws are made. you just sit down with someone from the other side and come up with a solution. sam farr from california helped cleanupthe most massive in the country. ofad 13,000 acres

contamination and sam and our staff worked on it. they got me the people, the experts to clean this site up. we never thought about who was republican or who was democrat. carter's expert on insurance set down with me and walk me through hell pensions worked. pensions out -- how worked. answered.out and they coming from a small town, practicing law in a very small town, we always believed that you trust people. sometimes you might get burned but it was still worth a to trust people, because it always works out in the end. highlight ofy the andding time in congress the experience is always the

people. we going to politics, at least for us and our family, it is about the people. you meet the most incredible people. whether that is in your district or that is to your colleagues are and the people you meet who this wonderful institution, which i think it is. the u.s. congress. it is the people. foreign affairs. we did a lot of traveling. i left my kids. again!one we did quite a bit of traveling. again, that was the people. sure, the sites are nice. just in times you are meetings. it is the people that you meet. for me, sitting down and having a discussion with mikael

gorbachev with just 12 other people in the room at his institute was incredible. with one of the presidents of bosnia. he invited me to sit at the table with the other two presidents and we were discussing the issue of bosnia. we have the largest bosnian district in the world besides bosnia. we have many, many bosnians and our district. to theeps coming back people. it is the people that you meet that makes the experience. was really the highlight. to be able to do things that made things better for people. i will never forget having a room full of mothers with kids in my office the day that the health-care care bill passed. they all had pre-existing conditions. there was not a dry eye in the room.

things that really impacted people life, i always remember with sidney hoyer said in orientation. he said, if you do not walk a little taller and feel that inspiration every time you walk into that building then it is time to go. it is true. , to me, abouthing the congress and having 435 people in the room is like having the whole country in one room. and, learning from each other. professions, different ideas from around the country. you can start off with a bill you think is 100% grade, has a lot of great ideas in it. but going through the process if they go through the process anymore, it can actually be improved if some but has a better idea. that is the way it is supposed to work. if you can let that work, when

it does often times -- when it does not it is often because it is rushed or somebody is trying to monkey with the system. but there is a simple beauty and something really unique in letting that work. to me, that has always been the andinating challenge opportunity about working in congress. >> there is no doubt. here we are at the national archives, home to the sacred text of america. you areuck by what saying. really, the work of a representative is just that, right question mark to come, represent, talk, and debate. to reflect america in a smaller number. thatu know, the problem is in many schools today civics is not taught.

the family members of congress here, thank you for helping to sponsor this forum. you are welcome. >> dedicated to teaching civics. people don't realize the extent of sacrifice, the brilliance that when into these documents. -- the 20 inch these documents into theset documents. abrahams -- abraham lincoln's hand was shaking so much that he had to fix it before he signed the document. makes the history of this you not only better americans but makes you more civil to each other. this is who we are. we are a mixture of everybody. if we studied these documents, that defines who we are. we the people.

dramatic. that was pretty good. so, obviously the sacrifice and excitement and enthusiasm and also the humility that comes with serving as something that should be shared. what i want to do is spend the some20 minutes or so for questions you may have about what it means to be a congressional family. not just a member of congress. any thoughts or questions? >> here's a hand over here. >> i apologize. you need to go to the microphones in the aisles so overit will be broadcast youtube and wherever else we are

live streaming. >> thank you. my question is about the potential sacrifices and of the exposing your family to the public eye. giving up privacy. makes you become a local celebrity family. journalists asking questions. in school, that affect how your children go through the school day and how they are treated. can you talk about how you juggle that? keeping your family private while seeing a congressional family. how you balance that challenge. incident whenrt we were serving and the people myour district knew that heart stopped. my husband did cpr. i ended up in the hospital here and got a stent put in.

family tragedy on its own but it was a family tragedy that was being lived so much out in the public eye. of emails of support. everybody was praying for me. but i remember we got one email from somebody that said, i'm sure that your wife must have .ot the cadillac of care i said to my husband, you know -- you need to actually write that person back very nicely and 911.we called not a celebrity. we're just a family that is in a house here in america. that are available to all of the citizens of the united states were available to us.

it i said, i think people tend to think that somehow things are a little bit smoother for you. sometimes they are smoother. but every family has its ups and downs and the things that they go through. so that is a little bit hard sometimes to do those things with so many people wondering what is going on. listed phonehad a number. 34-love. very seldom what people call me at home. .hey respected our privacy living on a farm, no one knows you're there. [laughter] >> we could go into the biggest town of byron, 3500. a've never been known to be i

fancy dresser. people would say, you are pumping your own gas! [laughter] >> thank you for your question. it is something you struggle with when you are in the public eye. had aur family, we've couple generations now of being in the public eye. russ hearted way before -- became a rep state rep or congressperson. when myest part was father-in-law was governor running for the u.s. senate and and he weren-law killed and an airplane crash. that was very public.

that went worldwide. you are dealing with your own .rief, your own tragedy my children were very young. eight-years-old and 12-years-old. us but itficult for was also difficult for the people of the state. so you have to understand they identify with you and your family. many of them have loved you and supported you and watched you grow up in life. grow up.d your kids so they identify with you. very cautiousys and careful, but you also wantingthat people are to understand. people are wanting to know. it is not always bad. it is just something that goes with the territory.

sometimesifficult and you say to your kids, you need to be extra careful. it may not be fair that you will get into the newspaper if you get a speeding ticket and somebody else will not. but believe me, you will be in the newspaper and there will be an article for your speeding ticket. so, it is not fair but it is there. so they have some extra burdens and extra responsibilities as members of our families. i always said, we have been in the public eye and had some incredibly wonderful things and also some very difficult things. the thing i think i enjoy the -- because there are so many misperceptions about what it means to be an elected office.

you may,c appearances misperceptions there, or anything you do. going to the grocery store. people say, i can't believe you are out grocery shopping. people would get a kick out of that. or driving my old deed up pickup truck. people would say, you drive that? schu.k they human a. it is kind of fun to surprise people in those ways. -- d human a. schu. dehumkind of fun to -- anize you. threatshad death painted on our house. a casket put in our front yard. bizarre things. people you would not even think of. those are the kinds of things you go through and the public eye. but for the most part it is positive. some of those negative things, you just have to deal with it and go on.

>> tea while. all.ank you, i have a question. you were a senior democratic whip. do? does a whip >> it is actually a great visual . if you can picture trying to and try group of people to get them to do with they are supposed to do. i keep vote or something. it is part messaging the message when it comes up or good old-fashioned maps, counting heads when votes are coming up. .- math counting heads when votes are coming up. glad you were not steve scalise. that was another very touching moment in congressional life. >> thank you for your question.

>> another? please. >> i know neither of you are in congress anymore, but sort of dealing with this president and the way he chooses to communicate through tweets and people very worked up all around -- what would you suggest to your colleagues. what can spouses and families due to help turn the temperature let people get the work of government done? >> that is the question of the day i think. civil. it is just being trying to find common sense solutions to get things done. i think one of the frustrations about what people see in washington is that it looks more like a food fight then people wanting to get things done. it is a powerful thing to do a bipartisan event with someone

be a even though you might different political party or a different part of the country or maybe vote differently 90% of the time, you find those issues we have common ground. you get things done. to me that is the best way to show the alternative to those things. >> i think social media has done more to destroy this country. time, if you had a problem with somebody you would them.p a phone or call look them in the face. >> or right a letter. letter. a facebook, there is a guy who is so nasty. i said cut him off. i do this at

taxpayers expense, somebody to swear and saynd ugly stuff? i think social media has generated and spawned and irreverent behavior. because they get away with it. no one holds people accountable for that. whenever i counsel young person who is getting ready to go to college, looking for a job, i say i have hired a lot of people. i always look at the internet. f-bomb, you will never get hired up my office. never. watch what you say. if you say something that is because a man -- speaks what is in his heart, the best thing you can do to check a future employee is to say what they have said on the internet. this is destructive.

it is destructive what people are saying and they are getting away with it because nowadays it is not an age thing, because trump is 71. >> our leaders have to be civil. i think the american public has that concern. when you are a leader, it's one thing to have social media, and i agree with you very much, but we cannot as leaders allow ourselves to go down to that level, because we are elected to come here and to work together and to figure out how to get things done. when you got people at the top speaking this way and degrading people and being personally destructive, this makes the term

politics of personal destruction, like, well, that was nothing. this is really bad. so i think we need to hold our leaders accountable and not accept -- is, i'm thinking about don't want to get too far afield and talking about the present day, because i do think one of the things that's very interesting about the time we are in it is it is a little bit like watching a car crash. you sort of cannot not look. so we all keep looking. every conversation into being about this. this is where one of the things we might want to start think about, and i think tonight would be an interesting place to start imagining this is, how do we think spouses and congressional families could maybe think about

ways to do things together to show legacy and generation and history and reverence for what it means? maybe there is some sort of role for the phone number of congress association to bring more former members and their families and their spouses together and bipartisan way across the country. >> that is a really good point. as you were talking, i was thinking, there is a lot that we already do together as a spouses do our international clubs and the first ladies luncheon, we always went out and did a public , republicanome type and democrat. these are all bipartisan groups. it's amazing how we shared with each other and then i would say, did you know about this or this?

fromse i learned about it one of the other spouses, and he would be like no, i never even knew about it. to your point, how do we get this out there? -- ink the individual don't think the individual offices talk enough about what the spouses are doing, what the families are doing. the newsletter, does that get put out there? republicansd working on this project, it was dialogue about this. i think we should promote that more. it's all behind the scenes stuff that we know about, but the public just needs -- just sees the nasty side of the sausage making and not really the compatibility and as you were talking about earlier, the hard work that goes on to really make things happen. >> i deeply believe there are two things we need. we need to humanize the work of politics and demystify the jobs

that they do. so i do think that even you being here tonight, sharing some of these experiences about what it was like for you to work together as partners and spouses , those are all important ideas. there's a program called congress to canvas. any did anye tonight -- any nitt lions here tonight? we talk about our experiences and the kids are shot that parties canifferent speak to each other and get along. i think that program goes right to the gut of demonstrating to the college students that there is not one devil on one side and

an angel on the other side. the fact that people can communicate and talk and respect each other and have the decency, that is new for a lot of kids, because there is a thinking today that it is cool to be impolite and rude. that is to be accepted. that has become the norm, and a change to brings that. all of a sudden they see two people in congress at the same time talk about the sacrifice and the bills that they worked on to make life better for people. >> and there is a competition out there in the news and when you have the latest tweet or congressional food fight on one hand, to meeting of democrats and republicans getting along.

how do you get that message out there that there is value in that, and it actually does happen. you just don't hear about it in the news very often. businesssingle actually requires cooperative work. , this the great illusions idea that anyone does anyone think along, it doesn't matter whether you are in a corporation or in congress or whether you are in an educational institution. article,ite a journal many people have read it and responded to it and critique it before it is published. and all of that is a cooperative process. so i do think that what you are talking about is how you can work together and engage each other and engage more people in the process as possible.

so getting back to the family thing, one last sort of thought. if there is one thing that you could do more when you were sort of in politics and campaigning, what would it be? and if there was one thing you could do less, what would it be? what was your favorite part of the campaign are the process, i mean the tasks. what sort of things did you like? halls, theoy town one-on-one meetings with your constituents? it you learn a lot from lobbyists, which is another impression that is often derided, yet most people don't realize it's actually protected in our constitution. and it is truly a profession of education, being a lobbyist.

i think there are a lot of different jobs that one does when they are a representative. they have their parties pulling on them, they have their district will in on them, they have different members asking them to do different things. there are committee assignments, all these different priorities. i'm curious, what was the task as ayou enjoyed both member and spouse and what were the things you wish you didn't have to do? anyone? >> i will go. positivesrt with the first. people,ou said not the but the part i enjoyed the most still was meeting the people and -- that came into the office to discuss issues.

especially staff are good at making sure if folks are coming in to talk with russ on issues that i had expertise in or that i cared about and develop some expertise in, they made sure to let me know. if there were like a women's group coming in from rwanda and it was on legal issues and what was happening there, and they itw that forum was going on, was just constantly a wonderful education process. sponge, just getting all this information about all these wonderful different subjects by people who really knew what they were talking about. i still think that is the most wonderful part of it. you might find this funny coming from the south, but the part i would like to do less of his run raising. because i get a lot of

fund-raising. i spent time on the phone, i would do fundraisers, and it takes up so much of your time. fromembers and the spouse, what you really enjoy doing and what i really think you are there to do. so yes, fund-raising. >> i would say my favorite part would be what i would call the art of politics. , bringingking an idea in experts or constituents that know about it and shaping that into something and building a coalition around it. , and, that is the most fun just one example, we had a local chapter of the ms society came to my office and talked about the need for more research and

identified congressionally directed medical research in the theytment of defense, that had never find it in this research before. so we put together a coalition with other members in the national group and i found a that i hadpartner almost nothing in common with, but we teamed up on this issue thewe made that -- created first funding through that. to me, that's the kind of thing that is the challenge, the opportunity, and that art of politics, bringing people together to make something happen. and of course my least favorite is fund-raising. >> i don't think anybody likes the fund-raising. >> i would agree with you that it's the people you meet, and

likewise if someone was coming into the office that don newhouse going to be interested ,n their topic, i would come because i came from a medical technology background, a lot of people that came in with health issues, i was really interested in those. greatesthat the satisfaction that you get is when somebody comes in with a problem that they just haven't been able to solve and they are thatrated, and you realize you can do something about that, that you can put the wheels in -- get themive them connected with the people that yougoing to help them and just feel like you can do a lot of good for people. we had someone in our district that had been trying to adopt a child from the philippines and

it really run into a snag with that. when it finally came to our attention, we were able to actually really get in touch with the ambassador from the philippines and make it happen. years, iting for five finally all came to be and that little girl is living in illinois with the family that loves her. those are the things, and i think now when we are back home and people, and they will tell you that they have a problem, you stillempathize, steer them for where they can get help, but you feel a little more helpless because you're not really the representative anymore. you cannot help them quite as much. fromthink aside fund-raising, and no one likes

that, i set my priorities when i was elected and i really had no regrets on anything. one of my priorities was to spend a lot of time with the the national high school groups at would come in. there are a couple of them. , i wouldial classroom spend one hour with those kids and i would move heaven and earth to get them in. if i missed them, we would get their number, i would go home and get on the phone with them. one time i talked with a 16-year-old for about an hour. our mother said she was my biggest fan and she could not even vote for me. [laughter] opportunity of a congressman to bend a twig, to have the opportunity to shape and mold these young people, we

have an intern from china, and i had the opportunity to explain .o him what freedom is he did not know why so many people in america could have different opinions. he said, boss, i don't understand that. it was the most remarkable opportunity, i chair the and we werexchange , andhns hopkins university a young chinese student, there were about 200 students, half american and half chinese, a young chinese students stood up and she said, do you think that freedom, isdy for ready for democracy?

congressman bill pascrell from new jersey gave the most brilliant defense of the doctrine of natural law, explaining the source of -- to this chinese student. thecannot envision opportunities that we have as members of congress, and i look back and i made a commitment to spend a lot of time with these young people. that has been the greatest reward in my life as a member of and presidents travel all over the world, but no time was spent any more importantly than with those 16-year-old wanting to know about the nature of this country. >> i think with that, are there any last questions? please go to the microphone, and i think we will wrap up.

ukraine, i have a little bit of a different perspective. light, as amazing person from ukraine, we are newly democratic, and i don't see any of our politicians having the -- toward democracy and freedom as you have. there were people from ukraine, especially politicians, who and that is what is called democracy in eastern europe. while my question is, both of you served on foreign committees. as a family, what was it like dealing with foreign counterparts and what do you think the u.s. can do better to export those values abroad? >> there is the u.s. canadian

interparliamentary exchange, and also with japan and korea, but working with the chinese counterparts was extraordinarily difficult, not that they were hard people, but they have no definition of the word freedom. it just was not in their vocabulary. the mere fact that we talk about offendnt things and even the president, god for bid, by saying something like that, they couldn't believe it would have that much freedom to actually criticize the government. >> i served on the subcommittee on their -- international organization of foreign affairs that we dealt with a lot of those organizations. there were several parts of that there were meaningful. at first my staff tried to talk me out of getting involved in the foreign affairs committee because they said, what does

that have to do with your district? lot, if you have businesses involving international trade, your students going to universities all over the world. you have ethnic groups that care about other parts of the world, so those were, we're always exit tie those issues that to our district and our state. but we also learned things. that exchange of ideas, we ,earned things about germany green energy and how to do those kind of transitions. you learn things and share ideas and you have some common problems. america we don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but we have to be open to those. we share our experiences with other countries. how we deal with things, and finally, i would say it's just relationships. they really matter.

around the world and building those through congress, through and some ofments, our best allies and other countries are leaders who have had an experience in the united states, they come near as exchange student and have been to one of our universities, so they understand us a little bit. people in other countries that , it had those experiences really improves that relationship. so it is really an important function of our congress. that alexandery hamilton at one point in time was very frustrated, i think was 1801, a few years before he died in the dual, he referred to the constitution as the frail fabric that is the constitution.

i would argue that part of what is going on in ukraine is just new. hard to create legitimacy and tradition. i do think that one big advantage we have now is we got over 200 years of tradition and history, and trust me, not all of it was of standing or call or civil. there was a member of congress who did shoot another individual on the steps of capitol hill and got away with it. so life has been tumultuous at different times. -- any lastto say thoughts? >> i would say that people need to be encouraged to run for office. there are a lot of people that are afraid if they run for

office, that if someone were to dig up some dirt on them, you youror public office, public life is an extension of your personal life. you don't live up bifurcated as a and you try to live -- we of integrity and to have a good friend back home, sheis in a wheelchair, sleeps in an iron lung at night. she needs a 24-hour caretaker. she is running to be on the board of supervisors of dane county in madison, wisconsin. what an extraordinary thing, to , she decidednd say

to get involved and she cannot even wheel her own wheelchair, it is electric. if she thinks that much about america and she wants to get involved and make a difference, with her physical disability, how much more the rest of us americans should use that as example of what people are willing to do to have their voice heard. , just the go that importance of all of us, whether we are in office or out telling our story about what a difference it can make, that it's not just -- it's something everyone can be involved in some way. you can be involved in volunteering for a campaign or working in an office. there's lots of ways you can make a difference in your community and i think telling those stories are a great way to do that.

we are seeing a new generation of people aging in that, and that is good for our country. >> i want to thank the former members for having this for him and for certainly asking us tonight to be part of it. >> are you enjoying this? [laughter] currentand our dues are . because this is something that is talked about but not always given a public forum to discuss. uniquefestyle is the lifestyle. certainly there are husbands and wives that work together. congress, in politics, it is unique. it does take a village. it does take a family, and it really does matter.

was struckt is why i while we first came to congress how much support i felt there was there for the spouses and for the families, and that they really try hard to be inclusive and to support. so i just wanted to say that this was a great for him, thank you, and if you ever want me back, just holler at me, and i will say thank you to you, and thank you to the archives. [applause] use capeally appreciate -- sharing such personal stories tonight. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> tomorrow, new america looks at the influence of politics on race relations. that is live at 4:30 p.m. eastern here on c-span. later, portions of a recent event in new orleans that focused on issues like campaign finance, redistricting, and the electoral college. among the speakers, actress jennifer -- jennifer lawrence. >> if there is a wall between canada and super pac's, if i come as a political donor ro big

money out of super pac, my personal politician does not get to decide how it is spent, right? that is technically correct, except that the people who do decide how to spend it are usually in the scenario, the former campaign manager of the candidate, or close friends of the candidate. one of my favorite examples is actually the parents of the candidate, who are running the super pac. also can share what are called common vendors, so they can use the same consultants. so basically i think it is useful to see it as the other pocket on the candidate's coat. but if the candidate tells the super pac exactly what to do with the money -- that is legal? >> that would be illegal. however, first they have to get caught, and then the fec has to have a majority vote on whether

to investigate it, and as you fec has basically deadlocked on all of this the last couple of years. >> you can see the rest of that conversation and other speakers from the event tomorrow night here on c-span. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. youy, we continue to bring unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events and around the c country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. next, representatives and senator tim scott talk about ways to create more