daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme public policy events and washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> now, a discussion on the role of resource officers and school safety. from washington journal, this is 25 minutes. on the same token, i want to make sure that joe manchin gets reelected. >> "washington journal" continues. from joining us now birmingham, alabama is mac hardy, the director of operations at the national association of school resource officers. he is here to discuss the role andchool resource officers best practice for active shooter

month in the wake of last deadly shooting in parkland, florida. mac, thank you for joining us today. guest: thank you for having me on the show. host: please tell me about your organization and how it is funded. we are a not-for-profit organization third we in hoover, alabama, and we train school ,esource officers administrators all across the country and in several different .ountries around the world triad basis.a tryou lawol resource officers are enforcement officers, counselors, and get teachers involved in the classroom. host: for our viewers' knowledge, you are also a police officer, and you serve as a school resource officer.

us a little bit -- how many school resource officers are there around the country, and what, primarily, is their responsibility>? ? nott: firs there is formal way to tell how many school resource officers is there are around the country. there is no way to report how many they employ, but the primary role is to bridge the gap from law enforcement and the students inside that school, to create a sense of -- that there is a human inside of that uniform, breaking down the barriers of uniform between those students, build relationships with faculty and students so that there is an open line of communication between these parties. host: what is the difference between a school resource officer and a security guard, who you might find that schools?

guest: a school resource officer, there are three very to being aor us school resource officer. first, they are properly selected. officernot every police wants to be a school resource officer or is equipped personally to be a school resource officer. they received specialized training to work in a school environment, and they are also a sworn police officer. host: are they armed in the schools? guest: the school resource officer by the definition that i just relate to your should be armed inside of the school, yes, ma'am. host: ok. we talking about school resource officers and their roles in school, particularly in light of the recent school shooting in florida. we have special for this discussion with mac hardy. you are a parent or a student, you can call (202) 748-8000.

if you are an educator, you can call (202) 748-8001. enforcementf law can call (202) 748-8002. all others can call (202) 748-8003. for the purpose of this discussion. has your organization taken a position -- there has been a great discussion of teachers being armed in the school. has your organization taken a position on that? guest: we did take a position on that. we said that we believe that educators should be in schools to educate and not have to have the response ability and liability of carrying a weapon in the school. we believe that sworn, properly selected, especially trained police officers, sro's, should be inside the school, and sometimes more than one sro per

school. host: reading for you from website here, arming teachers, proposal, as you said, the organization is against that but you also said that for nasros we laid out, the continues to recommend against teachers carrying firearms, but you realize some states wants teachers to carry firearms in school, and some teachers already do. so you laid out some guidelines about what teachers who choose what schoolearms or districts, that you allow that should be. what are some of the things that you recommend, guidelines you recommend for schools who do have armed teachers? guest: we do recognize that there are some states that already have this in place. when we do, we think that there uite extensive

psychological testing, make sure that they are equipped if they are carrying a firearm on school grounds, that they are psychologically evaluated to make sure that they are capable of the responsibility to carry a firearm, especially in a crowded school setting. think that considerations that need to be taken from a very strong considerations on how firearms should be stored. if it is concealed, then it needs to be -- that is a thought officer's police pollster is a retention holster, and they are trained to keep that weapon in their holster on them and not have it taken away from them. that is a very strong consideration. veryso believe it is very, important to train.

shooting a firearm is a diminishing skill. you can become efficient and then neglect your training, and your firearm efficiency goes down. remember that with your law enforcement, your teachers, or your criminals, that whatever is on the end of that gone, the projectile that comes out of the gun, host: we are responsible for it. we're talking -- we are responsible for it. host: we're talking with mac hardy of the national association of school resource officers. kelly is a parent from bluefield, west virginia. good morning. >caller: good morning. athink we are looking prevention here, but more importantly, we need to look at the cause. we did not have this problem 20 years ago. but now we have video guns that show nothing but violence and killing, that it is ok.

i think that we need to look at the cause to stop a lot of that, and you would not have as much of an emphasis on prevention. thank you. host: go ahead, mac. causes are --he you know, we have got to look into that, and we have got to figure out why these situations occur, but as a school resource officer, we also need to be proactive with our dealings with students and schools. that is why we stress in our training that we understand the human brain, we understand how students think, the process is that they go through is different than an adult brain, the development of stages of the brain. we also want resource officers in our school to work very closely with their administrators, with their school counselors, school psychologists and social workers and with a team report

approach, this collabe approach to working in schools is proactive. it is not just the school community, because we know the school cannot do it alone, law enforcement cannot do it alone, but we've got to the community into the discussion. we have to have an open line communication, community members empowered to communicate with their school resource officers, their school administrators, and school feel proactive in stopping a shooting from occurring, and maybe help the students that are in distress. host: mark is calling from boston, massachusetts. you are on with mac hardy. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to point out a couple of points. that it makeshink sense to have a student resource

officer, kind of like the air marshal on airplanes, you do not know who is on the airplane. it might be the air marshal, but someone is there, effective deterrence. there are plenty of teachers that would be willing to do this. so i think that makes a lot of sense. the teachers are closest to the students come up so, for example, the deputy that did not , at parkland,hool he did not go in, but i think the relationship with students is so close, they would feel like their own children, be willing to come of the teachers that did die eventually with no firearm, so certainly they would be able to effectively keep off a shooter, even with a powerful weapon. i do think it makes a lot of sense from a strategic point of view. we have court houses, airports, registries, sports stations all covered with firearms, security.

why did we make vulnerable our children? and does not make sense the other point want to put out there is that the thing that all these shootings have in common is all men all on psychotropic drugs. host: pro want to respond. go ahead. -- i want to give mac a chance to respond. go ahead. guest: we have listened to these concerns. before i became a law enforcement officer in 1995, i graduated with an education degree and spent seven years as school.r in the i understand the love of the teachers that they have to their students. us to live in the community that ataught in, and i still feel bond with the students that i taught you i see a lot of them on a weekly basis. i understand that, and i want to lay down my life if i were in

that position as a teacher. but i also understand tha went into the schools to educate. with that, we understand, we have heard teachers come and we have listened to the teachers, how difficult of a job it is to educate the children. as a law enforcement officer working in a school, i had that same love for the students in my school that i worked with. those students became mine, and i became a part of that faculty. and i also knew the responsibility everyday when i put on my uniform, but the day that i retired a few years ago, it was a relief that i did not into thatar that gun school because i also understand the liability to put a firearm on and where it into the school with the possibility of having to stop a shooter, which could have been a 15-year-old kid that i have dealt with on a daily basis of until that point. that experience and that liability is great, and there is much to think about than just putting a firearm on your hip. host: mac, i want you to talk a

little bit more about that stress and liability, a, knowing that in some of these situations, the person you are confronting could be a student taught and cared about, bu also the idea of having school resource officers in schools who are armed, that accidents can happen or a student can get a hold of. talk about those things. dost: first of all, you build strong bonds, not only as a student but as a community, you understand -- you not only talk to the student, we may have talked to his brother or his sister over the years. sometimes these teachers have even taught the student's parents. there is a community bond that ties these groups together, and that is very special in the community, and we have to build upon that and be proactive. we have to open the lines of communication.

when we hear things, we report it and so forth. the responsibility of carrying a firearm on school is great. we understand that responsibility. that is why law enforcement -- there is always updates on the holsters that police officers carry and the training that police officers -- it is mandatory that they receive this training on firearm or tension. training very physical that we go through. we have other officers who are continually trying to take the firearm away from you in different scenarios, and you have to physically restrain him from taking it for that is a responsibility that is upon that police officer, and that training is very serious. policeandatory for officers to receive it. host: all right. mike is a parent from new mexico. you are on with mac hardy. caller: hi, c-span. thank you. hi, kimberly.

thanks. thanks, mac, for doing this. i have been a united states concealed carry member for four years. i have not a proponent of arming teachers at all, because i think teachers just need to do their job like the senators and congressmen need to do their job without fear of reprisal. i have a question, and i am has investigated is really school security some, because i watched it on abc news -- bbc news. they seem to have their act together. semiautomatic for weapons they are is 27 years old. i am curious if you have investigated israelis. the other thing i am curious about that nobody ever brings up is bulletproof or ballistic backpacks or bulletproof or ballistic curtains, if you have ever investigated anything like that. i would really like to hear your response. thank you. guest: well, on the israeli

schools, i have not investigated, and thank you for mentioning it. we will certainly look into it. as an organization. but one thing that i have found in working in the schools for over 20 years and as a police officer is that we want to maintain that educational environment. we are not there to insert ourselves in or to dominate the situation. we understand as law-enforcement we step into an educator's world, and we work with those educators because we are in that same process of the education, but we are there to help them maintain a safe learning environment. sometimes we take steps, and we understand that. we do not want to make our schools into prisons, but we want to make them as safe and as inclusive as possible, and make sure that the people inside the schools are the people that are supposed to be there, and the

people that are not supposed to be inside of our schools, we keep them out. with doing that, we try to do that in a way that is manageable , and that is very important because there are all kinds of situations that all caps of ideas that has to be mandatory for the staff that is available for that. funding is very important in doing some of these things, and luckily, we have been seeing around the country a lot of people are taking note. we cannot let them put it on the back burner in a couple of weeks. we have to stay on top of it to continue to get that federal, state, and local funding to support the processes in the schools. host: i am sorry, go ahead. guest: no, please go ahead. host: dave is an educator from california. go ahead. caller: actually, i am not an do -- there is an aspect of this issue of gun violence that never gets discussed and never gets reported. i guess maybe we always look for

a quick, simple solution to difficult problems, especially social problems. has the, chicago strictest gun-control laws in the country -- or among the strictest -- and yet the level of gun violence in the. the country. and yet the gun violence in chicago is among the highest in the country. a number of these young men grew up without fathers in their lives, like the young man who committed the atrocity in florida. you know, historically, fathers played an important role and helps to socialize and civilized boys, teaching them the responsibilities of manhood, and yet fathers have virtually disappeared from the lives of children in many areas of our country.

listen daniel patrick moynihan used the phrase "defining behavior that" used to be unacceptable has become acceptable. that used to be unacceptable for you to have children out of wedlock. now it is commonplace. host: i want to give mac enough time to respond to that issue of the family. go ahead, mac. guest: i know that family issues are very important, but that is one world as a resource officer that i understood. i listened to kids talk to me over the years, and sometimes their stories were heartbreaking. them, i felt with them, i cried with them, and i understood what they were going through. and sometimes you can understand the pain and the anger that they and we empathize with those students, and as a resource officer, we build those bonds. we do give them an

outlet, we do give them a person to go through in times of stress when they are abused or they feel like they have been mistreated, and so to end answer that, we understand t are family issues, we can help what we can help, but we can be there to assist with these students in the meantime. i did not answer that man's question earlier fully. i wanted to mention about safeguarding our schools, students with ballistic backpacks, with the curtains and so forth. you know, whatever your community thinks that might keep children safe, that is -- all possibilities need to be looked at. of course a lot of times these things come down to funding, so to that question earlier, i did not avoid that, but i wanted to let you know that yes, you look at all options, and you a them, and you see what is best for your community. host: that come earlier this week there was a teacher in georgia who barricaded

his classroom and fired a shot your are school resource officers trained to deal with situations like that? guest: of course we are. we are law-enforcement officers, and everyday as a law-enforcement officer, you never know what you are stepping into third when you step out of your car, the surprise is something that you have to react to quickly come on your feet. you have to understand the situation. situation, that was very .cary you had a teacher in distress, and hopefully the person is iseiving the help that needed for the troubles that he is going through, but, you know, as a resource officer, we want to be part of the community that goes up and encounters this person, because we are equipped, we are in trained to encounter

armed suspects and armed people in distress. host: callers we have some -- host: we have some callers. eva is calling for california. you are an educator. good morning. caller: yes, i am a retired teacher. i taught for 34 years, and i worked directly with peace studies. concerns that -- at the level we are talking now, like the tragedy that has occurred, and how we deal with gun control and that kind of end product of the lack of curriculum development where you have teachers trained to deescalate conflict and then students also trained to work anh their peers to come to

understanding of the problems -- mediate between opposing those students who are in conflict with each other. until we deal with that, i think that is something that teachers deal with. host: mac, can you talk a little bit about that? conflict de-escalation. guest: yes, i can, and i came from a system that used a peer mediation program. the resource officers were very aware of it. we were a part of the discussions during the day with our peer mediation advisors and our peer mediation students. they did a good job when they are well trained, and there is a program that trains these students very well to listen to the concerns of other students that are in conflict with each other, and using that strategy that they have been trained on to help really those conflicts.

police officers are not in school to handle school discipline. we are not the enforcers. we are there to support educators, programs such as peer mediation. as we researched these things in order to be proactive instead of reactive on educating our kids in schools and to protecting our students, we need to look at the available, that have some substance to it, and that have been tested, and if that works in your community, in your schools and the community and law enforcement all in a collaborative effort feel good with that, go into it, do the research, and do it well. host: megan is a student in salem, massachusetts. just a few minutes left. what is on your mind? caller: i would say no more book backs, first of all. check your book at the door -- or keep your -- host: are you there? did we lose you?

talk about that. talk about things students can do to create a safer environment. guest: i was really excited to have a student call in, because it is important that we listen to our students. they are the ones walking into the school doors everyday. life said earlier to them, we do not want to make their environment seem like a prison. only are we there, in my pants on and education to receive the curriculum that is very vital for the students to take with them later in life, but it is also the social skills that they learn by dealing with problems and dealing with other students their age and learning how to handle these things. that is where it is very important that we all, you know, keep that environment where the students can learn is very valuable social skills. if we locked down schools and we do not allow them time just to be teenagers, that i do not know if that is the correct answer.

we have to find a happy medium where everybody is working together and we are proactive in keeping our school safe. host: all right, mac hardy with the national association of school resource officers, you can find the organization at nasro.org and in washington journal, we have several guest, including one from mexico issue and talks about the state of u.s.-mexico relation and trade. be sure to watch each sunday for

our special series on 1968, america in turmoil, starting march 18. we look back 50 years to that turbulent time, including the vietnam war and a fracture us -- and a presidential election. >> monday, top education officials from a number of states attend a conference on implementing federal education laws. they are expected to talk about early education and career preparedness with a keynote later in the day from betsy devos. live coverage begins at 9:00 eastern on c-span3. >> monday on c-span's landmark cases, the civil rights case of 1883. a supreme court decision that struck down the civil rights act 1875, that are a lot that granted all people ask us like

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