his book, the line becomes a river. and theresa may takes questions from members of the house of commons. after that, discussion on proposed u.s. north korea ♪ >> this week on q&a former u.s. patrol -- border patrol agent francisco cantu discusses his memoir "the line becomes a river . cantu, authorco ," "the line becomes a river when did you first think about becoming a writer? mr. cantu: i first thought about writing of my expenses as the border patrol agent six months, a year after leaving, i think.

i was really trying to grapple that experience and come to terms with what i had participated in. so that's when i really first started thinking, ok i have to write to make sense of this. it seems like the only option. get everything down on paper, put all of those experiences in one place. i didn't know it would be a book at the time. but i think that's how all tell-all books sort of's start. brian: where were you in the border patrol -- when were you in the border patrol and where did you live? mr. cantu: 2008-2012, i spent the first two years of my career in a field station in arizona. and i spent another year at intelligence sector headquarters in tucson. and then i spent about a half a

year in el paso. brian: let me go to the basics. where were you born? mr. cantu: i was born in santa rosa, california, left shortly after my birth. my mother was a park ranger so we lived in a couple places in the southwest. while she was working for the national parks. and then we settled in arizona. she got a job at the forest service. i spent most of my life growing up in arizona. brian: at the end of your book, you say this. you acknowledgments, i want to acknowledgment three fathers. charles simmons, jack butter, and elkhart. -- al carr. explain. mr. cantu: my biological father, and my mother separated early on. so i have nicknames for each dad. so that's my bio dad.

and then i have my raise me dad, which is jack butter. he raised me as i was going through my formative years. so i call him dad. he came into my life when i was maybe six months or a year old. so he's also my dad. and then my mom remarried, i think when i was in middle school, to al carter. city was my stepdad in my high school years. i had a lot of great father figures. brian: where did you grow up? mr. cantu: i grew up in a small town called kreskin. brian: -- prescott. brian: i wanted to live there? mr. cantu: i lived there almost my entire adolescence. i was there might entire schooling from the time i was five years old until i graduated high school. brian: where did you go to college? mr. cantu: i went to college right here in d.c. at american university. brian: why did you pick it?

mr. cantu: i wanted to study international relations. it's funny because i loved arizona i think wanting to explore the world and wanting to broaden my horizons. and i had that travel bug. and so i went to international relations as a way of having a very wide view. and the reason i think that's funny is because after a year in d.c., i was like, i need to study something i'm a little more rooted in. and that i have a little more investment in. so i turned my focus back toward where i grew up and where i came from. and that's when i really started to focus on order studies, u.s. mexico relations within the umbrella of international relations. brian: where you a full scholar -- full right scholar and where? mr. cantu: i was a full right scholar when i left the border

patrol in 2012. i think i had a 2012-2013 fellowship. and i went to the netherlands. and i was studying rejected asylum-seekers living in the shadows after their application for asylum had been rejected. so they had sort of remained in the netherlands in violation of deportation order. when i appliedd for that fulbright to think about immigration and borders in another context. brian: and what year did you graduate from american and how close was that to the 2008 engines into the border patrol -- entrance into the border patrol? 2008antu: i graduated in and started the border patrol shortly thereafter. actually begun the application process while i was at american university.

i think i signed up for the accelerated sign up process because i knew that i would be going back to arizona and if you are close to a southwest border station, you can accelerate the application by showing up in person for these interviews. and so i think there was six they were reviewing my application before i was finally accepted. it was a quick turnaround. brian: i'm looking at an article that comes something from splendornews.com. and the headline is from the middle of february. -border patrol cop has become of me it patrol darling and -- are furious." once that about? -- what's that about? the left andple on

the suspicion was people on the right would be attacking you. what's that about? mr. cantu: i think a lot of the concerns brought up by these groups are valid. they are based on misconceptions about the book and the content of the book and the message of the book. however, i think the essential argument there is, who gets to tell these stories? and whose voice do we listen to? and i think in some of that media coverage for this book, and it you know this full well in the media, the border patrol agency, verysed suspicious of outside attention. it can be very cagey. i think for a lot of people in the media, the fact that there is this book by a border patrol agent and i seem nice and the book is relatable, they are sort of betraying this that humanizes the border patrol.

but the message of the book is really one of the dehumanization of migrants. think the focus is sort of, the takeaway of the book is not that we need to be humanizing border patrol agents. the takeaway is to really look at all the ways we discount the migrant experience and negate migrants with our words and rhetoric. rootreally understand the of that opposition. brian: go back to your mom for a second. where was she born? mr. cantu: my mother was born in i think san diego, california. that's where my grandfather's family settled after they crossed the border from moderate, mexico. brian: your biological father was born where? mr. cantu: i'm not sure where my biological father was born.

california or oregon. brian: how related are you to mexico and your ancestry? my mother'st was father who crossed the border and in fact, his parents brought him across the border when he was maybe five years old. and they were fleeing the violence of the mexican revolution. so in many ways, they were refugees. they came here in a similar way a lot of people are coming here now. and he grew up in san diego. his entire family relocated there. they started one of the first -- my great-grandfather started one of the first spanish-language newspapers in san diego for the mexican community living there. -- my mother was actually her story is somewhat similar to mine where her mother and father separated early on. so she didn't grow up with her mexican father, my grandfather.

she didn't grow up speaking spanish. she didn't grow up very close to the mexican side of her culture. but she kept his name. she never changed her name so i have his last name, as well. brian: what a narco? mr. cantu: that's a spanish term for a drug dealer, anyone related with the drug trade. what's a cartel? mr. cantu: cartel refers to the drug smuggling mafia. brian: what a coyote? mr. cantu: coyotes are people who traffic drugs across the border. brian: what is the significance of the rio grande river? ,nd this map that you see there the rio grande starts in california and goes through new mexico, but that's the borderline. and yoursee that map own expenses, what do you think?

mr. cantu: you know, i spent a lot of time looking at this map and thinking about this map. when i was thinking more andractly about the book the title really comes from thinking about this map and thinking about the way the line is drawn across the landscape. and when i was taking about the title, i was thinking about what borders we accept as natural. mountain range, river, they demarcate something in a way we sort of except. and what sort of boundaries are unnatural? and growing up in arizona and seeing all these places where the line is sort of asked across the landscape in a very visible way, in a very unnatural way, i wanted to speak to that tension with the title. and i became interested and hyper focused on this point

outside of el paso where the line that is drawn across the desert needs -- meet the river. he comes somewhat more natural in a way. somewhat more natural in a way. brian: the names in the book, are they the names of the actual people? they are all changed without exception. brian: why? mr. cantu: to protect the identities of the people in the book. brian: including the border patrol agents you worked with? mr. cantu: yes, for everyone. border patrol agents, especially the migrants. my friend jose at the end of the book, his family. brian: all made up. the names? mr. cantu: yes, sir. chief agent ate the border patrol academy. where is that, by the way?

mr. cantu: new mexico. brian: i want to show a clip of him talking about the training. >> we are going to be tough on you. it is not going to be an easy task to get through this academy. >> that means you, raymundo! >> we expected to come in good physical condition. you will be become proficient in code law, use of firearms, and proficient in driving our vehicles. force,-language, use of policy and procedures, tactics, techniques. we provide you every tool you need to protect yourself and protect the people of this great country. brian: accurate? mr. cantu: i think i might have seen that video before or something much like it. , ihink the academy is recognize some of the themes in that film. so i would say it's pretty accurate.

the academy is designed, sort of a hybrid between a police academy and military training. so there is a lot of academic studying and book learning you have to do. immigration law. and there's also firearms training, police training, physical training. and of course the border patrol academy, much like any military or law enforcement training, is sort of designed to break you down and build you back up again in the image of border patrol agent. or any kind of enforcement officer. brian: how much time do you have to commit to them before you begin? mr. cantu: the border patrol, unlike the military, you don't sign a contract for any particular amount of time. a lot of people drop out and leave the academy or leave during the field training. so there's no time commitment. brian: let me show you a hearing

back in 2010 where it talks about water patrol agents. and commissioner is talking to a former senator of arkansas, but it will give you a chance to see whether this is still the truth eight years later. cbpnderstanding is that the policy is to do a polygraph on all the applicants. >> that is our goal, sir. >> my understanding is you are only doing 10% right now. is that right? >> that's accurate. >> of those who are polygraph, what percentage are found unsuitable? >> approximately 60%. >> 60%. , ifwe extrapolate from that there is 90 or even 85% of the folks that are on this chart

here that have not been polygraph, that maybe 60% of them might not pass the polygraph if they took the test? >> we and others have done that analysis and reached the same conclusion. brian: did they give you a polygraph test? mr. cantu: i did not receive a polygraph test it -- test. brian: did you know what he was talking about? mr. cantu: i do. i joined at the tail end of the bush hiring push. so similarly, there was a call for more or patrol agents and i was part of this wave of border patrol agent's that brought border patrol staffing to the highest it has ever been. brian: do you have to have a college degree? mr. cantu: you do not. brian: is there an officer corps and in the stick or? -- and listed core -- enlisted corps? mr. cantu: no, sir.

everybody is equal. whether you have a bachelors degree or military degree, everybody is thrown into the academy and starts at the same place. and you have to work your way up. you can't apply straight out of the academy. for an officer position or supervisory position. you have to do two years of probation before you are eligible for any sort of promotion. learn in your book, we about your dreams and nightmares. why? mr. cantu: the reason that is -- central part of the book in the border patrol, there is not a culture of talking about the ways you might be affected by the job. again, i think that is similar to all law enforcement and military positions. me, as somebody who has entered the border patrol with a lot of questions, almost from an academic standpoint, a lot of

those questions really faded away just in order to wake up and show up to work and do the job. the think a lot of intensity and the violence that you are exposed to and participating in at different levels, you don't process that. you don't talk about it out loud. and so for me, that was really relegated to my self-conscious. it manifested itself in dreams and maybe quieted doubts in my mind. and those dreams, when i look at them, they were really alarm bells calling me back to my sense of who i was outside of this job or who i was before i joined. and just calling me back to my sense of humanity, i think. your: at what point in time there, four years in the border patrol, did you say i don't think i want to do this anymore? and why? mr. cantu: honestly, i think it

ran so deep that leaving the picture -- the border patrol, i applied for fulbright and that was a way out. but towas a way to leave still be moving forward. if you had asked me at the time, i don't think i would have told you i can't do the job i need to get out. i'm leaving because it's not for me. i think again, that was this thing in the back of my mind or didn'tcious thing that become obvious to me until after i had left and had some distance from the job. but i do remember when i finally took those dreams seriously, i was at a dental appointment. and the dentist gave me the news i was grinding my teeth in my sleep and said that i had ground through several layers of enamel. and he said this is serious. you have a stressful job. what is going on?

and for years leading up to that dental appointment, i had been having these dreams ever since i joined where i would grind my teeth or clench my job until my teeth would explode in my mouth. so to have that news was the first time i was presented with a real-world manifestation of that dream life, that subconscious life. so that was the moment where i sort of had to sit back and say, maybe i'm not dealing with this just fine. maybe i'm not all right. brian: when did you first come across a dead body in the desert? mr. cantu: the first dead body that i saw, which is the only body that i came across in my time as an agent, was after i was working for the border patrol for a year and a half or more. it was in the summertime. you find a lot more bodies in the summer because of the heat.

and it was august. it was in the middle of a hot afternoon and two boys flagged down a passing vehicle. and it was an agent. and they had put rocks out in the road to stop passing vehicles, but people drove around them. nobody stopped for them. and these two boys, it was a nephew of the men who died and the nephews friend. and they were all three from the same village and they had crossed the border together. died, he died who from dehydration. these upperstaking that smugglers give you to kind of caffeine uppers. and i will never forget that. i remember his face. i remember his body.

even more than that, i remember having to explain to his nephew why they couldn't stay with his body and why they couldn't bring his body back to mexico with them. and explaining the era craddock procedures -- bureaucratic procedures by which they would have to contact the mexican consulate and arrange for the repatriation of the body. and it was this moment where there was an extreme disconnection happening from the immediacy of this person's death and this person's humanity and entering this bureaucratic system that was entirely severed from that. brian: how often do we find a dead immigrant or -- what lay would you want to use -- in the desert trying to cross the border? mr. cantu: so this is something i don't think we talk about enough and i don't think we talk about it to the extent that we need to.

because hundreds of people die every year in the desert. 6000-7000mething like people have died crossing the desert since 2007. this isn't a result of policy of enforcement through deterrence. by which we have heavily enforced the urban areas and the more easily crossed areas, and we push the crossings out to the more remote parts of the desert like the part of the desert where this man died. and so that number of deaths has remained quite constant. last year, i'm sure you heard many times the news that crossings were down. they were at i think their lowest point in 14 years. and the number of border deaths did not go down. it actually went up in relation to the year before. despite the fact less people were crossing the border, the crossing is still remaining as dangerous or becoming even more

dangerous. and that seems to be an essential missing piece from our conversation about immigration reform. brian: let's go back to the map for just a second. that border i read is about 1900 miles long. how much of that has any kind of a wall? mr. cantu: i think there is approximately 700 miles that have some sort of barrier. brian: where would that be? mr. cantu: the actual wall that we would think of as a high wall tend to be in the urban areas. so anywhere on that map where you see a.. -- a dot. you can bet there will be a pedestrian fencing in that area. much of the other barriers are vehicle barriers. they are steel posts. ped normandy beach style barriers.

and the walls that we have were actually the result of an earlier iteration of this conversation we are having right now. we had a build the wall will pass through -- bill passed through congress. that's what gave us much of the fencing we have now. brian: how many border patrol agents are there? mr. cantu: i can't say the exact number. i know that it rose to a high of about 20,000. i think it has dropped now somewhere between 15,000-18,000. attrition is really high in border patrol, much higher than most law enforcement agencies. i should also mention that that number of border patrol agents makes it the largest law enforcement agency in the country. there are more or to agents then there are fbi, dea, or any other agency. brian: when you work as a border

patrol agent, how much were you paid? mr. cantu: i think because i had an undergraduate degree, i started at a slightly higher rate of pay. i think i entered the border patrol making somewhere between $38,000-$42,000 salary. and the border patrol is really set up also because of this problem of attrition like to rapidly give you increases in pay. i think after you are with the border patrol, you remain with them for six months, you get a pay increase. after a year, you get another pay increase. even with a short amount of time and, you can be making $50,000-$80,000 a year in short order. brian: what do most of the agents think of the border patrol organization? mr. cantu: it's hard to say. i's important for me to say

haven't been a border patrol agent for years. whatsoever, speak on behalf of the agency or the people in it. most order patrol agents, while they are there doing the work, they are proud of the job that they do. i think border patrol agents byen feel sort of maligned the press in the media. so i think it creates a culture where it is a bit insular or tribal, so there is a fraternal feeling among order patrol agents much like there might be in the military where the outside world doesn't understand us or what they do and there is a lot of pride, i think. among the agents. of 30 here's a bit seconds of the atlantic magazine video piece that they did on

border patrol corruption. our goals for the hiring of another 5000 border patrol officers. you didisk is that exactly what we did last time. >> we will increase the number of order patrol officers write an additional 6000. >> we dramatically ramped up border patrol agents. you've got to hire people quickly. they cut corners. there was a real spike in border patrol corruption. >> on average, more than one agent has been arrested every month for the past 11 years. brian: what is your reaction to hearing that? people would be that corrupt in the border patrol? mr. cantu: i'm really glad you play that clip because i think it is really important to be talking about that, especially as somebody talking about that

hiring push. there was a moment where you heard audio of, i don't know who was saying this, but we run the risk of saying what we have army done. i think that is absolutely true right now. without any sort of policy reform, we are doing exactly what we did before. by allocating more money for fencing and more money for hiring border patrol agents without any policy fix. we know what the outcome of that will be. same as what we have seen. you know, cutting quarters is just going to happen when you are hiring thousands of people at once. the border patrol academy in artesia, they have to ramp that place up. it's a big operation. and i think a lot of the training requirements have changed. a lot of the old border patrol agents when i came in, they

would talk about the old patrol and the new patrol. and the difference being in the old patrol, they had a more rigorous academy. they had more rigorous physical training, and they had more rigorous spanish training, which i think is the most important element that is the biggest corner being cut. i think agents are being sent to the field under equipped. i neverness withed any withedion, i neverness any corruption. the people that i close to, i never heard rumblings or, i

never knew anybody who accused however they and were acquaintances at the station that you would hear they would kind of disappear, you know, they had, they had been relieved of or they were given, you know, the gun was taken from them, they were relegated to a assignment while they reason the investigation. problem that i saw, i think the way that happens, you is allf course, there sorts of different kinds of corruption, but you know, the big concern along the southern border is agents being corrupted cartel, and, you know, if you think about it, the atder patrol agent standing checkpoint, all they have to do is wave one car through the checkpoint and get a payoff from some cartel group. the fear.t is that is the danger, and this is what you are trying to prevent again with the extremes like

polo graph testing and trying to you suspectple who could end up doing that. then: what is going on at boarder? what are all the things happening coming back and forth? thean, we talked about drugs and that stuff. break it down, the number of people that want to come into country, versus those that are moving drugs into the country. >> i wish i knew an actual number, um, like, like most of i am telling you, all i can speak is to my personal when wase in the years there. you heutely apprehended, know, many drugging? letters, many loads of narcotics, arrested people who were, you know, had ex extensive records, but the majority without a doubt are the in my that i en cornered duties were, you know, people life, um, nottter

criminals, just people coming to family or looking for job. a was overwhelming major think of people i encountered. brian: what would happen, do you think fresh this situation reversed and americans were trying to get into mexico, like mexicanat would the government do about people trying to get into their country? well i think you can look a what the mexican thernment does along southern board we're guatemala, gives you the,t that gives you the answer right there, it is extremely militarized, it is, you know, of course, the mexican law is much more -- has reputation -- well, it is not even reputation, it is just a corruptey are much more and, um, you know, they are often working hand in and what of these smuggling cartels

know., i don't that is our answer right there. think the other thing that is important to consider is that, pe, these migrants who are coming from central america, i which is now the majority of my grapes. i think last year was the first official year that midas from exceededmerica migrants from mexico, and, you migrants their lives are at risk their bodies are modified. they are being dehumanized at every step listening that just when they get to our border, bound the passage through mexico, on the crossing border between guatemala and mexico. risknow, they are at during that entire, you know, 2,000, 3,000-mile long journey across three interior of mexico. brian: there is a fellow named arizona border

recon describing what he does. ."is comes from "u.s.a. today" , this onehere was kid quote that kennedy had has always stuck with me. ask not whatknow, your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country? we find them. that is what they put the cameras out. then we start saying, ok, it is start game number two. game number two turns in a chess match. my pieces iny put front of their pieces to block them. outsmart you.g to you are trying to outsmart them. but buy doing that, then we end the game whack them. you hit them here. over here. brian: what are you saying in that individual zo. mr. cantu: well, the first thing noticed first and foremost, the language that man, and many people like him used to migrants, and the

idea this is a game of whack them all. is a metaphor, at askednce deahnizes and you not to think about the migrant as people but as animals. and you know, my, all i can share with you, my opinion. are vigilantes. i think -- ju are talking about foley? nailer mr. cantu: absolutely, yeah. i think these people are vigilantes. they are not trained by the united states government and taking the law into their own hands and i are quite often work is doingrder patrol and not a help. brian: what is your sense that you border patrol agents work with. what do they consider their job to be? do they want to stop the traffic? >> you know, the border patrol

agents that i worked with, um, that is so strange and that i think becomes loss in a conversations is how routine all of this becomes, so i think that a lot of these questions that you are asking, of questions that, you know, i had going into the board relegated to the back of your mind, so i think so many agents when they show up for um, whaty are like, kind of position do i have indiana am i going to be able do my crossword puzzle or watch my ipad or do i around, but you know, border patrol agents, they foremost, youand are concerned with the safety, with the safety of the people that you work with, and you know, you want to do your job. you want to, the agent that is theyand that i admired wanted to, you know, treat the

people that they apprehended you know with respect and dignity and i also saw people who did way and so when you are talking about, you know, agents, you are talking about every different imagine.ercent you can and good agents who, you know, who were dedicated to their work, and i knew agents who i the wayisagreed with they did their work. what did you think of the movie portrayed the border and wha what i am thinking aboud clip in the second which came back out in 2015. union.e coming ut in what does it mean? forell, it is the word cartel hit man, basically, an assassin. brian: well, this is a story paso and juarez.

did you leave in that zr. mr. cantu: i dy for whale. you describeuld it? mr. cantu: the way i would ,escribe living in el paso is surreal and then, element of why it is so surreal is that it is becauseeously so normal you become conditioned to living the safe environment in el paso and the years when i was was sort of ast the peak violence was petering out and for, you know, for your don'ts, i think it is who know, the most violent city in andworld for several years, it was the murder capital of the i think that is salded with so much mythology. we mythologize the board in

and, youut see el paso know, movie are part of that, of death and destruction and all of this sort we thinks the way about that area, and you know, livingine everyone there under, you know, like a cloud of which is true and also not true, and that is why it is so surreal. bit ofjust a little .ideo the first movie >> there she is. the beast. >> no.

>> thousand troops. >> do you think he felt safe? brian: when you see those vehicles and all, does that experience?f your mr. cantu: i always think about when i think about living in el on interstate 10, and it, you drive right next to border, may, you can look the 10, youspots on can look out the passenger window and see the rio grand and the fence and it on the other side. areknow, the city that you looking out at is two city, so familiar.of it is there is a scene in this same film, i saw it in the theater one, whereer this they drive into juarez and then

you see the bodies hanging from overpass and i think del toro's character says welcome to juarez. and you know, i think that, i think that is the damaging part because it encourages us to entire border as devastatione of and -- brian: you might as well do the sicario2, josh is in the, so when you see this, the sets the mood. i want you to tell us what you think of this. ♪ >> how would you define terrorism? ♪ >> definition is any individual , that uses violence to achieve the political goal. administration believes the

cartels hits that definition. see this thing through? i am going to have to get dirty. ♪ ♪ >> turn you lose. >> adios. brian: how much of that -- i laugh, but how much of that is accurate? mr. cantu: it is simultaneously important to recognize that the violence mexico pervades mexican itiety in so many ways, but is also important not to glorify what mexicothat as is or what life just across the

border is. lose sight of the fact that, you know, people live in these come nins every day, lives just like us, i think know, so when about juarez, i also think about, you know, visiting juarez my mom, and, um, we were walking to the big open marketplace, and my mother, you know, fell in a pothole on the street, while we are were crossing the road, then, you know, badly twit twisted her ankle. turned green. the cars were about to go. we were sort of panicked trying get her up and people stopped he cars, got out of the cars, you know, one man sort of like held traffic with his hand, and mothercame and lifted my out of the street and helped her to the sidewalk, you blower just cars in the street. it was extremely -- it is a scene of humanity that you would expect to see anywhere, and you

know, you don't see moments like these films, so we lose sight of, of the of the people that live in these places, and i think, that is problematic. think of,s us to every border town as a flays we should fear going to. brian: did your -- or how much did your view about this whole change during the time you patrol?the border mr. cantu: the, i mean, it changed dramatically, and i think the biggest change, if i it, would to describe be that i terned the border these sort ofl of grand, like macro-level questions. political questions, policy you know, ind, thought that being on the border and seeing those realities day would give me answers to those question, but

those questions, they really away, and when, when i looked back at my time in the patrol, what really sticks me and what i remember human interaction that is have. those encounters and those had.rsation that is that is what carry with me every day, and i think that is what gets lost in this conversation, a reversal for me. brian: which conversation do you most?er the zi was man a woman left behind the group in the desert. brian: were they trying to get across the border to dom the united states? part of a they were larger group, you know? full of migrants coming for they got separated, left behind because they could not keep up. the woman was pregnant, that is could not keep up. and they were lost for three days after the group left them. you know,drinking, filthy water from cattle tanks,

know, they made it to the village, and the border patrol got called, i was the agent who was supposed to take and i started talking to them and turned out the pregnant woman had grown up in iowa and perfect english and she was a schoolteacher in i would and you know? i think her husband saw that we were talking and we had a connection? over at oneeaned point and said, hey, man can you , you we skip the whole know, arrest and dep or tation thing? can you drive us back to the to let us cross back to mexico? you know, be a brother, and, know, i, i didn't hesitate us. i said no. this is my job. know, i cannot do that. and i took them in. but what i remember about that encounter is i remember asking their names and i remember myself to them, and i remember wanting to remember

them because i had this connection. i wanted to like hold them in my mind. wanted that woman to be safe. and for the child to be safe. a couple of hours later. i went back out on patrol. ways sitting mine car, i had forgot mine name. then, the reason that encounter sticks with me so much because i is the first step in the humanization is forgetting makes them an individual. brian: what should this country do? if you were invited to the oval office, and the president said, experience, what what do you think we ought to do? >> well, i think we need to have conversation about board per place, that starts from a of complexity and not simplicity. talkingwe need to be about this in a way that acknowledges, you know, the immense ty and the nuance of

this issue, so the rhetoric has to change, i think? and, you know, honestly, if i, if i, you know, had the ear of a i would say, we have to change this policy of deterrentt through that i think has resip tated a humanitarian crisis, because those numbers that i mentioned areier of the border deaths not be a struck a. i carry the em major of within of those people who lost their with me. and i think that is unacceptable. you know, that hundreds of crossinge each year, doorstep. on our own that has to change. that is something we can change right away. brian: here is a clip from a is calledy this one sicario room 164.

♪ [speaking in native tongue] brian: what drives men like this? mr. cantu: i think what is amazing about that film, and --ut that machine's story ist man's story, to me, listening to all of the ways a person like that begins different parts of the brain, the psyche, and the that make us human, and what you do asok a job and to look at the people know, are charged people, soonas not when i was writing this book,

his man's story, um, and testimony made an impression on lelecause i felt particle between the disconnection that work and the disconnect i had started to develop in my work. brian: what are you doing now make living? mr. cantu: i am a writer. part-time instructor, and coordinator, and bar tender. brian: instructing where? mr. cantu: the university of arizona. brian: teaching? mr. cantu: teach part time at the university's poetry center. community, community creative writing and literature seminar. why bartender? mr. cantu: um, it is a good way to make some pocket money. and i love the people that i work with. am aficionado of agave spirit found a blase i get do

those thing. >> in what city? mr. cantu: tucson. mentionedthe way, you your moth air lot in the book. mr. cantu: yeah. brian: where is mom now? outsideu: my mom lives of the town where i grew up. close to prescott. are there theirth brother and sister? mr. cantu: half-brothers and half sister mines brother's side. two half certificateses and half-brother. brian: this experience of writing this book when you look back on it? how long did it talk you? what do you think of the process? i spent maybe five book.writing this for me, the book, you know, an accounting of my own time in the border patrol the way that i, you know, participated in what now and when i look at it is the per andation of the flawed violent policies, um, and, you

know, what really changed my as i had already started writing this book is when i became friends with this and, and his story is what really transformed me. because it was the first time that i had seen behind the happens to, at what all of the people that, you know, i would have been sending, youand know, sending on that you are way after they left the border patrol holding facility by becoming close with his family, i saw the ways that deportation ripped through their lives and crossed the board. brian: and the book with jose and three children, where are they today? his wife and his three children are still in the u.s. brian: are they u.s. citizens? three children

are u.s. citizens. >> where is jose? jose i cannot really for his safety say we are is. can say is that his life very precarious, um, you know? he is not safe. i think his much like many people who are in his situation, lives in a state of constant fear. out,: you should point that hep your book you had him after being back and forth a times.of he is back. he is now back in mexico. mr. cantu: he was. yes. when i sort of the book ends his voice. that is tingsal decision because i think the voices like the people of jose, throws the people who have the most. i think we can learn flor

position andjose's we can learn from listening to politician,ake per, border patrol agent. >> ok. let's say the wall is built. and another 5500 border patrol , what willcreated the impact of that be? to saytu: um, it is hard what certain, people will still through, around. know, withoutou any kind of meaningful policy, um, policy reform. it doesn't do anything to address the problem of the are here.t and the problem of all of these people who are separated from families. the problem of the dreamers who, thisnow, are living in legal limb poe, none of that alresses the day to day row there is a those people are lifing with. brian: you quote your mother in

your book as saying that she her career slowly losing my sense of purpose? totp that in happ penned you? mr. cantu: absolutely. byhink, it happened sort of design, when you step into an institution like the border , you are giving over all identityparts of your and, you know, what makes you who you are, to this to help it, in order perpetuate its gel and so, you very quickly lost sight of those questions that i entered with of sort of my sense of who i was before i came in and if i didn't have someone like my mother as a tether sort that, ing me back to don't know that i would have way.out whiten the same how long did she spend with the park. she spent half of the kay rear service then spent the other half of the kay year

the forest service. from that job so she spent her entire career working for the federal government. brian: last question. what did she think of your book? i think my mom is, you know, the i natalie more hap with career choice to be a writer than my career choice to be border patrol agent. you know she read the book during many different stages of know, sheg and, you is a great loving supporting mother as would you expect. book is "thef the line becomes a river dispatches from the board" our guest has been francisco cantu. thank you very much. mr. cantu: thank you s thank yor having me. ♪ ♪

transcript,or free visit us at q&a. org. visit us at >> if you like this program, hear are others you might enjoy? versions jorge ray moss talk about the journalism career, onitics and views immigration in america and california congresswoman grace discussion policy and the impact of the hispanic vote in the u.s. elections andian net nationalo heads the council. you can find these interviews on-line@c-span.org.

this past week, the british house of commons, prime minister theesa may was asked about meeting with the crown prince and another question had to do the goff governor's response. this is 45 minutes. government d situated. >> thank you. order. questions to the prime >> order. question to the prime minister. . [shouting] thank you, mr. speaker. i would like to begin by a dating house on the government's response to the incidents that occurred on sunday and pay tribute to the work of all the emergency services who responded at the scene as those who are now caring for the two critically ill individuals and hospitals. as my right honorable friend the foreign secretary delete investigation is