swamp by hiring swap m onsters. announcer: journalists by committing the fight against isis. andoarded different country has a different color skin than you do and it totally different background and a port of the same privilege, and try to make you care about their life and understand the parallels between years and there's. friday at 9:30 p.m. eastern, and advocate for what is called trickle-down economics, arthur. >> it is true there are consequences to taxation and the consequences are the same across the whole spectrum. you cannot tax and economy into prosperity, period. announcer: this would on prime time on c-span. next, a look at federal funding and school choice from today's washington

journal. every monday we take a look at programs within the federal government for how much they cost and what they accomplished and joining us this week is caitlin emma who covers education, good morning. of howou give a general the trump administration approaches the topic of school choice? education secretary betsy devos in particular is a wealthy philanthropist coming from michigan and she has spent much most of her career investing in school choice options at the expansion of schools and access to private schools. predominantly she is focused on low income students and hispanic students have access to private schools. that is something that parents want to do. and that is really the extent of her experience and education policy. she has no experience with public schools, no experience as

an educator, as a teacher, school administrator, she's coming from a very narrow lens when it comes to education policy. she really fits the trump administration's bill for expanding access to school choice. the president for example on the campaign trail pledged to funnel , $20 billion in school options for students, we have yet to see that happen. especially with the administration's desire, what happened there? that is her biggest barrier with congress. despite the fact we have a republican controlled congress, there is little appetite even among moderate republicans for funneling public dollars to private schools. that is definitely the biggest barrier, last year we saw that the trump administration was interested in creating a federal tax credit scholarship program,

which would work similar to a private school voucher, that didn't happen. we saw modest investments in private schools when it came to the tax bill that passed this year. and the omnibus, pretty much rejected every single proposed investment in private schools that the trump administration wanted to make with the budget proposal. again, we see this continued rejection of investing in private schools. pedro: some figures for omnibus, charter schools a $58 million increase bringing the total to $400 million and $250 million private-school choice program that was not funded. does this stop, then, especially with the omnibus, do you think that mutes administration desire to see the programs happen? caitlin: i think it will continue to be a barrier, certainly, there are other proposed cuts the trump administration wanted to make, in general, a lot of proposed

education cuts the trump administration wanted to make were wildly unpopular with congress, they wanted to zero out federal funds for after-school programs, they wanted to zero out federal funds for teacher training and professional development and the same time they wanted to make massive investment in expanding access to charter schools and private schools. there is little appetite in congress for that. it's hard for moderate republican from rural state to turn around and say, hey, what we're doing, when they do not have charter schools or private schools. pedro: school choice and federal money under this administration our topic in this your money segment, we've divided the lines differently. for teachers who want to give your input, 202-748-8000. for parents, it is 202-748-8000. for teachers, 202-748-8001. all others, 202-748-8002. when it comes to teachers, how

do they generally, what is their response to these type of programs? caitlin: well, it varies depending on the community. school choice can prove to be wildly beneficial in underresourced communities, particularly urban communities where you have disproportionate number of african american, hispanic and low income students destined to go to local failing public school. by giving them resources to go to private school by giving parents resources to send their child to a private school, that could open more doors. that has been seen to be very popular and of all the research out there, really on school vouchers, at this moment in time there, is mixed thing necessary terms of how students are doing on tests, you know, higher graduation rates, one thing we have tended to see in the studies, when parentss are asked, are they satisfied with school, more likely to say yes

d.c.articular with the parents are more likely to say they are happy with the school and they feel their child is safer when they send them to school. pedro: before release of the omnibus, secretary devos testified last week and made her case for charter schools. go to our website to watch the testimony, here is a bit from last week. betsy devos: funding for this purpose through new grants program that would expand number of students vo have the opportunity to attend a school of their choice. under this new program, states could apply for funding to provide scholarships to students from low-income families that could be used to transfer to a different school. local educational agencies participating in the student-centered funding pilot could request funds to build on the flexibility provided by establishing or expanding open enrollment systems.

this way, funds follow children based on their needs, not buildings or systems. in addition, the budget expands support for charter schools by providing an increase of 160 million for total of 500 million and continued support for magnet schools. pedro: caitline emma, what is the take-away from that? caitlin: right. secretary devos faced test questions on capitol hill about private school programs and her support for vouchers. what she described their not come to fruition and there was no support in congress there. but at that hearing we saw a lot of tough questions on what would this mean for students with disabilities if a student is attending private, religious school, that family then has to sort of acknowledge they are giving up their right to free

and appropriate, adequate access to accommodations for students with disabilities under federal law. by investing a lot of federal money to private schools, she continually keeps getting questions about what will this mean for students with disabilities, what will this gender and lgbtdange students, a private school decides not to accommodate a student with disability or lgbt student, what does that mean for them? she gets tough questions about her position here. the same time, you're going to see her continually stand by this point that any time parents can choose where they want to send their child to school is a good thing. pedro: hear from you at home. start with a parent in washington dc. monique up for caitline emma, good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning.

i want to disagree with eshgs mma, when she stated parents most likely won't criticize the schools because of the federal-funded college tuition program that the federal government has. i criticize. many parents complain about issues that we may have in dc public schools. a scholarship is not going to stop us from stating our dislikes about what is going on in our public or charter public schools. the scholarship program was wonderful for my daughter. this is her last year at marshall university. she will be going into her masters in august. without that program that john boehney signed off for in d. c.

, my daughter would not be -- she will be the first in the family to graduate from college. she will be the first in the family to receive a masters. i appreciate that program because now she has started something within my family that we have never had. pedro: okay, thank you. caitlin: like i said, you know, i study the scholarship program, a dc-based voucher program that provides scholarships to low income and disadvantaged families so their children might be able to afford private school in d.c. actually, what i was saying earlier, the surveys and research done around that program have shown parents tend to say they are more satisfied with their school, they are happier they were able to choose the right school for their child and they are more likely to feel as though their child is attending a safer school. on the other hand, the research

in terms of academia tended to show programs more broadly that test scores tend to drop as soon as the child accepts voucher and enters private school, it could be for a number of reasons, it could be the fact the curriculum is more rigorous or different or that going to a new school can be a shock in a child's life. broadly research across voucher programs has shown immediate negative effects on test scores, but, with a study that came out of indiana, it shows students tend to improve over time and judging a voucher program based off initial first couple years might be unfair way to judge success. pedro: how is michigan's success with these type of program? caitlin: secretary devos, her and her husband tried to get state legislator there to essentially bite on vouchers and they were not successful in doing that.

but, she has had a very important role in sort of the charter school scene there and expanding access to charter school, and has come under fire of the regulatory or safeguards on the back and to ensure charter schools are performing and serving kids well. she faces tough questions about that. pedro: hear from michigan, a teacher in michigan. william, hello. caller: hi, good morning. thanks to c-span. i wanted to comment on the history that caused all this to happen. i started teaching, i'm retired now, i started teaching at a high school in 1968. and bottom line is the beginning of the integration era of school as result of that, for example,

my county here in oakland, there was a big thing they wanted to kidsthe basically white kids out of the -- this school in which i taught. and eventually the guy became a big-time politician in open county one of the richest county necessary michigan. and the public school system suffered immensely. it was an excellent school -- to auto shop to technical information and whatever. but as a result of that, the money makers of america, i shall call them, the grand rapids, all are super rich. pedro: okay, thanks, caller.

caitlin: well, that certainly has, you know, been an issue, particularly in the south. the center for american progress, a left-leaning organization here in d.c.. they put out a report last year that explored that and the troubled history of school vouchers in private schools and at a time when schools were under a mandate to integrate black and white children, a lot of private schools were created to essentially stop that from happening. so certainly it is part of the checkered past of private school vouchers. pedro: some of the harshest questions about the voucher program for the secretary last week about civil rights protections, if the voucher system was used. here is a little bit from that and get your response to it. >> federal dollars are going to private schools through voucher or choice programs. will you guarantee as secretary of education that that money is

is included with nondiscrimination policies for private schools? >> as i said, federal dollars -- >> yes or no? >> federal dollars going to any program -- >> what is your interpretation of federal law? >> i think i've made this clear. >> then just say yes or no. >> federal dollars going anywhere for education, federal laws are adhered to. >> so you would not be able to send federal dollars to a private school that did not adhere to civil rights laws -- >> federal law -- >> is that a yes or no, just say yes or no. yes or no? >> federal law must be followed when federal money is involved. >> is there some problem, yes or no, will you guarantee -- >> i think i've been clear.

>> then say yes or no. >> yes. pedro: that was massachusetts democrat catherine clark. give context of that back and forth. caitlin: that is not the first time they've had a conversation like that during a hearing on capitol hill. representative clark also sort of grilled her over the issue during a previous hearing and secretary devos is in a hard place on this one. yes, private schools do not have to abide by certainly protections federal schools do. funneling of federal funds to private schools puts secretary devos in a tough position, she is essentially the stewart of the nation's students, she is -- stewart of the nation's students. she is under obligation to reassure the country children's federal civil rights will be protected. so, at the same time the secretary has made the point that state and local communities should be given, you know, discretion in is she certain cases. this conflict between state and local and federal is a tough one for her that keeps coming up again and especially with

respect to students with disabilities and private schools, and it is an issue that she just can't seem to get away from. pedro: school choice under the topic. david from new jersey, a parent, hello. caller: yes. i want to say to your guest, i was on the local school board here in englewood for 12 years and both my kids went to the public schools all the way from pre-k to 12th grade. one thing that bothers me about your guest they seem to be so , cold toward trying something new. establishment has controlled public schools for decades. look at newark, new jersey, chicago, where i grew up, washington dc atlanta, these , schools are essentially drop-out factories and what has happened and liberals, like this congresswoman you just had,they

are so cold-hearted, they are controlled by teacher's unions, that needs to be said. if you have a school where the competency or proficiency and math and reading scores is less than 15%, none of these congressman and including the black caucus, which are the most shameful group on this issue, many constituents poll after poll show black parents are in favor of school vouchers. yet who is at the forefront of , blocking this? liberals, liberals and black congressmen. pedro: david, thank you. caitlin: certainly that has been a criticism held by a number of folks who support expansion, including secretary devos, what we're doing is not working. secretary devos says time and again education in the united states is stagnant, we should be

pushing harder to try new things, thinking outside the box and that is part of her push this year and last year. it is not necessarily school choice, but school choice is part of it. she's been talking about rethinking school and sort of reconsidering how and what and where students learn and she's been visiting schools across the country that she thinks embodys that, over they are public schools, lot of supporters would be the first to two, teacher's union had too much control offer ver public education system. we are not seeing results we should be seeing. that is it, expanded access to offer new opportunities and a second shot, sometimes. pedro: as far as desire of this administration, what is current stance of future union, what are

they doing to keep this from happening? caitlin: teachers unions, specifically american medication of teachers and national education association, they are the two largest teachers unions in the country. they are stanch opponents of expanding access to school choice, particularly when it comes to investing federal money into situations like this. they feel as though it detracts from public schools, detracts from funding for public schools and they continue to make that push. they continue to sort of paint secretary devos as an enemy of public schools because she wants to invest in private schools. we've never seen this public versus private like we do now. pedro: anna in philadelphia, a teacher. hello. caller: yes, hello. i went to catholic schools through high school.

i think that we're on the wrong track here. i think all these experiments going off the past several decades have resulted in abyssmal scores, what was there was religion to some extent at the school, pictur patriotism, and above all disappointed make the school's local again. it did work for centuries and make the schools better. the new methods that were successful up through the early 1960's. charter schools are not all equal. ipod a taught at one. it had no air conditioning and they were crying with pain. everything has to go back to being local. it is not a question of money. we find more money than any other country.