time on c-span. at the capital the u.s. house of representatives will be gathering in 15 minutes for a pro forma session a formality to comply with congressional rules. no legislative work is expected today. will go live on that session begins. until then some of the issues facing the senate from today's washington journal. joining us now is ira shapiro, he also served as the former chief of staff to senator rockefeller. good morning. more about your background, not only your job but the kind of things you are involved in with a day in and day out working of the senate. guest: i work in the senate for 12 years for a number of senators although i got hooked originally as he in turn for republican senator nearly 50

years ago. i have a long love of the senate and i was in the majority and minority committee staff and personal staff, and leadership stuff as well. i worked on things as diverse as the ethics code to the metro funding, to the foreign surveillance act. years andwonderful the first five in the majority, the the next six and num minority. host: how is that different from the house and why is it important? guest: i talk about what used to be the great senate in my first look and i renamed it after mike mansfield, who i think was the greatest senate leader. the senate has always -- at its best, work in a bipartisan way.

because of the general requirement you need with a super majority, it was a place the parties came together to reconcile diverse interests. describeddale once the senate at its best as the nations mediator. this is where we bring together the diverse interests of the country and figure common ground that is what is lost. host: does that lead you to the broken?on is what mexican to the conclusion? -- what makes you come to that conclusion? specifics.

guest: what happened in recent years the last decade -- the senate leaders is to work and was a obligation to work together. they were a leadership team, and about over the last 20 years it accelerated over the last 10 -- the senate leaders became tribal .eaders the house works that way but the senate leaders have a obligation to come together and make it work. the mcconnell team failed that test. senator mcconnell's affect on the side has been quite profound in that regard. to invite people to call in and talk about his book and the condition of the senate that he sees. (202) 737-0001 for democrats.

c-span.tweet us at peter mcconnell, what is his ?ole in this if you prevent opponents from accomplishing theirs, nobody is more powerful than senator mcconnell, he is very effective. but that is as a republican leader and is different than being a senate leader where you try to bring people together and accomplish something for the nation. if you go back to 2009 when barack obama was coming into office and we were on the verge of teetering into the second great depression. that was a moment where leaders would usually come together and say we have got to deal with this national economic emergency. that wasn't what happened. senator mcconnell led

republicans in opposing the economic stimulus that was necessary to start a recovery and prevent the depression. when i said to strategy he lays it out pretty much in his own 2016 memoir. that is not what senate leaders are supposed to do. that was a moment where you would have seen a president and leaders in congress come together to work for the country. host: we saw the passage of the large omnibus bill and there's cases to be made that bipartisanship can be done? cases, yes,rtain some bipartisanship can be done. they wanted enormous increases in military spending at the democrats wanted significant increases in domestic spending so it was possible on a transactional basis to do something. if you look at the failure on

immigration, or if you look at 2017 at the repeated efforts to repeal the affordable care act without hearings, without markups, without amendments. that is a failure of the senate and the senate was not supposed to work in that kind of partisan way. host: didn't mcconnell's case it is a easier strategy when you have a house in republican control? after breakup mcconnell because he is a big part of senate history at this point and he is finishing copiers as senate leader and has made a mark. the question is what kind of a mark it is? if you go back to the obama years it was implacable opposition.

something's start passing like the past bill with 50 votes or 51 wants rather than the supermajority, so he has been very effective. the cost has been very high for the senate. broken." " oneave a caller, our first is john, republican line, or on with ira shapiro. go ahead. i have tood morning, disagree with the blame at mcconnell's seat when you look at what harry reid did to the senate and put the's filibuster was an play -- he disaster for the country because he would not pass any budget. he stonewalled both the democrats and republicans when

president obama was trying to get biggs passed. he has been eight unmitigated disaster and his chickens are coming, to roost. guest: you are making the point that many republicans to make. i don't believe senator reid was a successful leader and the mcconnell team failed the senate 2005 in and to all thousand seven, and reid was at the leader trying to an act a program of an elected president and reelected president. mr. mcconnell only had to oppose and he did with great effectiveness. if you look back on the way other minority leaders have functioned, they function so as to oppose the president on

certain things, and work with him on others. i didn't see any of that kind of working together that would have characterized the howard baker or robert dole, earlier senate leaders. do you see it with the current minority leader chuck schumer? guest: i think the current minority leader is capable of making bipartisan deals and has a history of it. he worked effectively in 2013 on a comprehensive immigration bill. the current minority leader is dealing with a unusual situation, namely the trump presidency, which provoked massive resistance from the beginning. it has been a partisan situation in that regard. the thing i should say to you and the viewers is that, i started writing the book in the believed016 when i

that hillary clinton would be president. and couldn't govern unless the senate changed. my book wasn't about donald trump and any particular person, although senator mcconnell does loom large in it because he has been such a force. the long-term decline of the senate created a situation in which people look at washington at said, it is not working. i am willing to try an outsider because those people in washington are failing us. so i put a lot on the senate's failure. host: will hear from chuck heumer, and back in february spoke at the university of louisville about the condition of the senate that he thought -- and i want you to listen and get your thoughts on it. >> we have shown the senate can lead before and it must do so again. the house is fractured. the president is the president.

it is the senate that has the potential to act as a beacon of stable leadership and progress ulture,litical car played by rank. have a special obligation. with the rights to the minority are not respected, but cherished. where rules made by partisanship are not just the goal but practically a necessity. it is the senate. we all know what president washington called it, the cooling saucer with a hockey of politics that can lead the senate through difficult times. if there was ever a time or politics needed a cooling saucer, it is now. that is what history teaches us. host: mr. shapiro. guest: i couldn't say it any better than what senator schumer

has, but also i couldn't say it better than senator mcconnell has at different times. he made a great speech on generate 14 on that same theme. the beginning of his memoir on january 16 starts about the special role of the senate and the way present -- senator cymer described it and he hasn't worked that way as leader. run through things on a simple majority basis and we have seen obstruction at times when compromise was necessary. host: the minority leader mentioned the various roles being changed at the rule of filibuster. do you think that is easily changed and what are the long-term effects on both sides? guest: i think the long-term effects have been destructive and the senate is a post -- is supposed to be this cooling saucer.

when filibusters were real but rare and you really needed the majority and minority to come together to get anything done, but the senators understood their obligation to do that. when one person couldn't hold up the senate indefinitely. that was how the senate used to work. without those restraints, it has become a block on the nation rather than -- it has essentially impaired our progress rather than being what senator schumer said, which is that begin of hope and common sense that we so need at any time, particularly now. host: here is raymond on the democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. you're absolutely right, if you remember on inauguration day -- announcer: you can find the rest of this program on c-span.org. and