landmarkcases. c-span, where history unfolds daily. just then was created by a public service by america's cable television companies. today we continue to provide unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington dc and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. now, a discussion of countering violent extremism by exploring the the radicalization of islam following the 1975 death of its leader, elijah mohammed. why the african muslim community has largely been free of radicalization when compared to other muslim committees around the world. you america vice president peter bergen moderates a discussion

with former intelligence analyst mohammed rahim. ♪ >> good morning, or good afternoon. welcome to the new america. the peter bergen and i run international security program here and we are inviting you to a place where mohammed rahim. co-author of a book, is going to present some of the key findings from his new report. dr. fraser used to work for the department of homeland security, and the director of national intelligence and counterterrorism center.

he has had a long career in government. he earned his phd last year from howard, and then commenting -- he is ataser, the defense of democracies and he also has a distinguished career in government working as both an economic and counterterrorism analyst for the central intelligence agency. over tong to hand it dr. fraser heman and he will basically set the table for our discussion. thank you. >> good morning. i hope everyone is doing well. we have some power points will use to put up. if not we have a backup plan as well. i want to thank first and foremost, peter, along with the new america foundation -- who

were graciously allowed us to engage in a important topic. topic in particular is dealing with the experience of african american muslims, and the report in particular -- i should start with the organization i work with now. it is the oldest organization in the world working and composed with former chiefs themselves. the work i currently do -- i had efforts in north america. this opportunity we have today is engaging on a critical issue dealing with the oldest muslim community in the u.s.

one of the most important things that came up when i was there was to eat egyptian food. i bring this up because this is local to being in the middle east and egypt and etc. dr. th experienced have an islam in the u.s., and that saying is important because african-american muslims have been in the u.s. since its inception. this report builds off of the great tradition of the work of enslaved africans living west africa coming to the u.s. by force. with them, these individuals brought with them a nonviolent that has form of islam been in the u.s. since its inception.

muslim lands like nigeria, which is important to highlight to understand the context by it as a child growing up in trust and, south carolina, i was the beneficiary of a tradition that was very much the experience of enslaved african-americans in the low country of south carolina and georgia. as well as studying the koran as a young boy in charleston. the experience is important in light of the contemporary narrative of islam base of indifferent and foreign, away from the american experience. funeral last year of mohammed ali -- dr. jackson said eloquently that with the death of muhammad ali -- in his death there should be no question of the compatibility between islam and being american

. big muslim and american. what all he did and others is basically make it visible for the american experience to see that there is muslim presence and influence by it muhammad ali and kareem abdul-jabbar, dave chappelle -- these are well-known individuals within the african-american committee who happen to be muslim and are used to multiple traditions within families of african-american experience. even the relation of hip-hop music and influence of african-american identity. i given context to understand that american muslims themselves and particularly african-american muslims have been engaging in a conversation of being both american and muslim from the very beginning

in this journey. period onward. before i get into the report and the the conversation -- professor at howard university called a six-year gap between african islam and african-american islam area the traditions and cultures and what we are used to with the islamic identity of practice -- the schools of islamic thought. whether they are in the arabian peninsula are west africa. with the journey into america, we have a new identity emerging with the rise of pro-islamic movement. elements of islamic identity that incorporated the nation of islam, that incorporated the influence of a movement and it is important to recognize that

the development of islam in america was certainly very much the result of india missionaries of theu.s. -- missionaries and the u.s. and he was instrumental in the establishment of islamic identity in the u.s. they that in light of issues and pakistan largely. this is interesting to show you this fusion and melting pot of islam coming into the american framework. african-american muslims journey into this experience has engaged in this resistance. looking for spirituality, looking for purpose. and that journey we saw the development of the nation of islam. to make a complex story very short. 1975, mohammed led the

largest number of muslims to sunni islam. of segregation as a result of the experience of jim crow laws, the result of the american encounter with race relations. mohammed was the son of elijah mohammed, who essentially instituted radical reforms to reject his father's teachings and ushered in a community that has currently over 300 mosques in the u.s. and the caribbean, and also has the oldest islamic institution in the u.s. as well, and is a model that has judges, lawyers, counterterrorism analyst, intelligence officers,

diplomats, businessmen -- congressman in the u.s. as well, particularly congressman carson. byonstrate the specific plan mohammed to great and inclusive islam that says you can be both american and muslim. -- hisorm if it's one reform methods won. rejecting the teachings of his father and rejecting it in a way where he was also offering an alternative. -- creating ant sense of worth for many african-americans who were affected by dealing with a sense of victimhood and the humanization and bite of the racial disparity operating in the u.s. a healthy sense of

patriotism and citizenship. there is a phrase that says the love of country as part of the well-known that is taught i mohammed the profit. he encouraged a sense of patriotism and citizenship, and as a result this is why we have the first american judges coming from this community. the first american congressman from this community. the first american elected official coming from this committee. this formula one in which individuals could easily stay in a sense of frustration and anger and wanting to carry out actions against the state we see as part of the grievances to a larger and broader muslim world and islamic world. mohammed was able to institute mechanisms and say you can have legitimate grievances and

chapman bell it -- channel it and do it in a productive way. you can be vocal about it, but also recognize you are part of the society. there no other place you can go back home to. as americans and muslims you owe a responsibility to do something as well. you can be critically -- you can be critical of issues and policy, but recognize where you are in society and in this united states of america as part of where you are and where you should be going for the future as well. just those examples but there are some of the mechanisms and framings of what mohammed was able to institute as well. i will close up with this and will have much more time for two q&a. what was offered in the report that is readily available -- the

larger western muslim communities in the u.s. and throughout the world can borrow from -- how can communities address issues of critical points. the african-american community -- regardless of being muslim or been ones very much that has dealt with issues of police brutality. the community has dealt with issues they have seen as surveilling. the experience of this community has said, listen, the government and state security services will have to do their job cap into the tool that law enforcement will use. it is part of that apparatus and engagement. -- whatse today face needs to take place is also

engaging in a critical manner where you can have a dialogue of pushing back on a policy level and also recognize that this is also part of what law enforcement, intelligence service is going to be engaged in. constructive dialogue and looking for solutions as well. i will stop there and there's much more we can potentially ther as well, in particular recommendations we offer as well. thank you. [applause] >> good morning, everyone. riff off ofw up and what he has done. i want to give some historical context to this movement and community and say it little bit -- give personal insights and

contextualized by personal experience in top us get into the discussion. number one -- it is important to provide this historical context of how islam has spread throughout history. yet always had -- throughout was on the history, you committees coming up through asia and africa were often you had small communities who maybe were not connected to the islamic tradition. -- a were practices literate committees -- illiterate communities, and islam will grow and get deeper later. the true islamic sources, the prophet -- it happens with some connection to the established religious authority. that is how islam spread. you got small communities come

established in their islamic identity. this was the process of islam spreading. this always happen, but there was a difference in 1975. in 1975 some thing happened, i am not a historian, but my wife is a historian and i learned a lot from her. what happened in 1975 -- for the first time you had a large elective body of new muslims start to engage the islamic test and develop an authentic identity without the prodding or influence of the established with the. in the mid-70's, in the midst of a cold war and on the cusp of globalization and advances in communication, the world's most powerful country -- the u.s. was

a very unique islamic identity. it is interesting to this happened in the context of the african-american community. why might have this happened? if you think about the african-american committee in our history -- there was this gap. the african-american identity is one that was cut off from history, even though there is traditions and historical connection, but what specific country are you talking about? it is rare in some situations where you can trace it. you had this to identity of new people, and it makes sense if you think about it. for islam to grow within this community, you are going to have something very unique. the first time you had this committee where islam was even in the face of racial oppression

-- you had islam growing. you had people taking on this identity. how did it in a way, and is mohammed helped the committee to grow and identity was you in comfortable in your own skin. before we step into the discussion -- the committee example may be the reform movement that people, especially in the post 9/11 period, that never existed but has been here. in the new york times a couple of days ago, there was a piece authoritarianism and narrowmindedness driving people away from islam. and saudi arabia and talks of

reform. this is something everyone is talking about. a lot of voices are coming from the muslim world experience. it is interesting to note that the real islamic reform, independent from the african-american muslim committee had been operating and developing an islam that is comfortable -- and has been overlooked. it probably was overlooked because the islamic reform that people were looking for where the body that people think this should show up in their look like what they thought it looked like. wasidn't look like who bridging the islamic experience and the western experience, it is not what it looks like. he does it mean the committee was not engaging -- mohammed was not engaging scholars -- we weren't cut off in that sense. the direction happened in a very

independent way and independent thinking of islam. how you approach the koran or the prophets example, that happened when most of the muslim world was not think about that because they were too connected and two attached to their tradition. which we can still respect the history, but it was the breaking off of the african-american identity that allowed a different american islam. i will and by sank, what does this mean for us? personally, we have a great example because mohammed, you were born and raised -- third or fourth generation muslim? in south carolina. i was raised in the west coast and my mother was an african-american born in york and my father was from west africa. i was not raised was them, i converted in college and i came out of an experience where i can to islam as a young adult, and it was seeing the community that

merged and made my identity as a muslim american harmonious. hopefully we'll talk a little bit more about hopefully we'll talk a little bit more about that but those .re my words and my experience very,nk you for those very super interesting opening comments. a third of muslims in the united states are african americans, is that correct? >> yes. >> is that well understood, do you think? muhammad: i should start off to imam of the resident the oldest mosque bit by the unitedmuslims in states, in washington, his sister passed away so he couldn't be here. the statistics are changing. the pew poll, 2015, showed that african american roughly around 33%,

28%. asian muslims are uribe -- arab muslims continue than those members, as well. i think now african americans little less now a in light of immigration issues, individuals coming from so it may bentries a little less than that but it's right around that. >> when americans think of think of arab or south asian, is that correct? is a smallerre ratio of african american islam punditsou look at the on tv, the commentary on television, despite our served ourhaving country, co-wrote hundreds of andidential daily briefs strategic assessments, we were

, severalas each other times. are you muhammad? look the same. --, muhammad: i think the conversation has shifted in idea of perhaps this exceptionalism. i think roughly 45%, according 2015, 2011 data poll, shows that 45% of american muslims are or below the poverty line so it challenges this notion that wealthy.cans are yes, many are well to do, very successful. theon the board of american-islamic heritage museum d.c., ington, southeast that documents the muslim of the entire but is that narrative

shown? is it seen? not as much as it should be. >> you said, muhammad, something very interesting, this idea that you could be nationalistic and still be muslim because obviously osama bin laden would very much differ and i want you to unpack this a little bit because bin laden would often talk about the nation but he didn't mean saudi arabia. the entire community of believers which he presents himself as sort of defending. how would osama bin laden react to some of the things you've ideas?d these muhammad: osama bin laden and enough openhave source available information, they were seeking to target muslims,merican looking to incite on racial to whenes going back

then senator barack obama was going to -- seeking to become president. they were using the field negro concept. they made the assumption that there were african american muslims in the united states, some potentially spoke arabic. there are taliban documents out well. as i think osama bin laden himself, it's a different narrative than how i have engaged it, which is all of humanity is the ummah, as well. that it's a local dynamic, as well. for the community as a whole, this one has certainly pushed back against that narrative. that argument with bin laden, now with the rise of hamza bin

laden, as well, they are framing idea of the muslim policy in some way having been unified. is an interesting new book idea of the muslim world. of the from the days islamic learning institutions in west africa. so there's never been this idea state.perfect islamic it has always been this sense of flux, experimentation. a sense of openness and tolerance was certainly there. you can look at a number of islamic policies, as examples. but when taxes were restricted, you see more conservatism. not to say that conservatism extremism. but conservatism can be one of mix or triggers for

individuals' interest down an pathway. peter: bin laden's appeal to african americans, azwary used this specifically. deaf ears, right? it turns out that the african-american muslim community, there was almost no takers. you look at the takers -- african-americans do not really cause bloodshed. the case in arkansas was one of them. but it was not a very fertile field. muhammad:the report itself -- we get into the examples. bledsoe is one example. >> tell people who that is. muhammad: he was an african convert who traveled to --en former military and he carried out an attack down in alabama. which he is now incarcerated. andfamily -- his father sister now have an organization.

the signs,t aware of down in tennessee, they weren't ofre that this pathway conversion would lead them down this journey. has one ofnnessee, the oldest muslim communities, particularly the community of imam muhammad, that if he had just driven a little bit further exposed to a been formula, an antidote that would have helped him see a broader, holistic understanding. bledsoe. malik jones in baltimore, maryland is another example. that haven americans anyone down the path of jihadist recruitment hasn't come from this community. there is not a single individual that we highlight that has been exposed and carried out any action from al qaeda, isis at to boko haram at all, at this date. peter: you mentioned this question of interpretation.

i mispronounced -- jihad which is the idea that you can kharan.t the for fundamentalists, to say you can't -- the gates of interpretation are closed. i thought it was very interesting. after 9/11 there was a lot of discussion about potential reformation of islam. there have been lots of reformations along the way, right? people -- i was unaware of anything you just said about attempt. was it controversial that the americans were doing this without al wazar university or other arab -- yaya:i didn't live through it directly. 1975.born in i did not see it. you had a very quiet sort of

movement. when imam mohammed took the reins of the nation of islam and did everything muhammad mentioned, you did have an world.h to the muslim one of the original names was the world community of islam in the west. the idea is that we're just just group. sectarian we are muslims, traditional muslims following mohammed. -- museum. and we have the same brotherhood and sisterhood with all muslims arnold world. this idea of universality, but not one of direction. from what i have seen, read, and heard some folks who were around at that time, other scholars imam mohammad. other folks acknowledged he was person in america who had leadership. no one else. who else in 1980 was a key muslim leader? that had a large following?

can we name anyone? no. it was imam mohammad who was this. there was respect but he was independent. what did happen in the 80's and 90's, here in america a lot of people saw that, even though this community was growing, people would say he was not authentic. they would say, now we're here, my family came from pakistan or egypt. we are here in america and we can provide the guidance of islam. and i think we have been caught that. that is where we are. peter: you mentioned the crown prince of saudi arabia here in states right now. he met with trump last tuesday. very interesting things. he told "washington post" that the road that saudia arabia has been going down since 1979,

as a result of the iranian revelation and counter to that, asically was -- kind of cul-de-sac. there was a lot of problems there. he is letting the women drive in june. extraordinarily, very unusual for the gulf. if you're a divorced mother, you have custody of your kids without going to court. making real changes. he's also locking people up and doing some other things. you are both intelligence analysts. you work in the u.s. government. if you are talking to the president or one of your directors of the cia or dhs, and you were advising them or trying to analyze, what would you be now?g about this right is this a big deal, windowdressing or -- dr. fraser-rahim: i think what

inevitable. everything you mentioned is good and important. we have seen pockets of it. inevitable. there is a lot of inertia that has to be taken into consideration. i would add, for these efforts to be successful, advise those doing them consult those who have been successful in providing the modern islam in environment. -- like to i'd try see. you would think if folks are islam shoulds how be, they should look at where

islam has been like that in the west. centric andstern say us as muslims will save the rest of the muslim world but practically, we've got a lot to show that the rest of the, quote/unquote, muslim world learn from. delayed arab the spring in the gulf in the sense trappingsout all the what is looks like in tunisia. you have the religious clerical establishment and also the royal family. requireo engagements surgical sophistication in a way where you are making everyone happy. that requires slow reforms that for us may be a bit slow and may bebe timely

for the long haul the best this particular moment in history. cleric,he leading saudi old friend of bin laden's, now rejected. going along for the ride, he's putting you in .ail >> the dhavertion comes up, let's work with moderate leaders. those are individuals who have kool-aid.unk the in some ways shape or fashion them in a constructive a real purposeful, tactful strategy in that engagement but i'm of the opinion that engaging those some who are nonviolent

and some who are part of the engagement that we need the gulf and for the broader islamic world. yaya: one thought on that. i think you were hitting on it. i think we also have to remember changing culture, changing society isn't something that can a policy directive. i think maybe the experience that we have been through sort of shows that, that it really is an organic process, right? we have to be comfortable with the idea that or policymakerr sets out these guidelines, the toh to freedom, enlightenment, whatever you call revivalism, it's not going to follow by script. so we need to be aware that maybe some actors who are doing -- asking for reform, yeah, they may not be perfect. i'm not endorsing -- i'm not them.ing i'm just saying this is an organic process. thing that's very different.

if we had this conversation a 9/11, al qaeda framed everything through the israeli-palestinian conflict. if you look at what's happening with jihadism, it's all about anti-shia, it's sectarian. add muhammad -- going on "60 minutes" comparing khamenei to might and implying he start a nuclear weapons program. speaking again as wearing your analysts' hat, what does this look like going down the road? sectarian tensions going to continue being an issue? are they going to amplify? get worse? mean for the middle east? what does it mean for islam at large? growing sectarianism? dr. fraser-rahim: the wildcard factor, now, you have a growing rise of eighth yemp in the east, as well -- atheism. so individuals are leaving so that rise of a movement, if you will, quietly taking place that

many people. peter: in the middle east you say i'm muslim. .t's problematic dr. fraser-rahim: the age-old issue between sunni, shia tension is still an issue and problematic. yeah, i think these issues continue to become. also in the world, there are proxy elements that will southeastwhether in asia, africa, nigeria, particularly. anti-shiahe rise of with --articularly peter: other shia in nigeria? numberser-rahim: a large in nigeria, also west africa. competition that's been taking place isn't just in the middle east. eastin west, it's in africa and looking for new areas

to get influence, to get -- yeah. yaya: bringing it to the personal. 1997 and i often think about, when i converted to i didn't convert to sunniism. convert to shiaism. it probably came later. later probably a year before i i understand -- understood the distinction. because i was in the text, not politics. it's interesting. the african american community we're talking about for shorthand, we could say we were brought to sunni islam by default but it's to note it wasn't a sectarian view. from sunnis will be

scholars, but the identity was really not so much attached to so maybe in the broader -- the thing we're seeing now, there's benefit in this identity being created which was been sor had not sectarian. maybe sunni, my default, but way i reallye contextualize it, that it was a sunni reform. a push to the idea of islam, cult the text -- you text -- consult the text, be connected to the closed condition but not into the sectarian identity. that.saudi needs peter: does it take you down a sectarian path by its nature or not? yaya: from a personal standpoint, i think about in the 1990's coming to islam, before the internet, internet wasn't a huge thing. differentng into mosques like i would, there was

wahabi literature. most converts at the time, if you were engaged in islam for carlosst time, the bledsoe, you would probably be literatureith wahabi funded from saudi, all throughout the 1980's and 1990's were dealingat we with. dr. fraser-rahim: if you look at the popular culture, go to philadelphia. the notion, you can be a cellacy muslim. if you go to philadelphia now, just an example. has -- the identity of a long beard, this is very going back 10 years ago, five years ago, and probably still in place now. comes from the influence of cellacy thoughts in america, in philadelphia, east orange, new jersey, are two just part that now is of popular culture in urban society, people having a big beard. that comes from the influence

framing of cellacy the world that has nothing to do in the contemporary context, to distinguish it being one and the same but you can see the influence. but, no, absolutely. think throughout the u.s., the the cellacy wahabi textbooks and parcel of many mosques and things are shifting. peter: you're part of an called quilliam. what is that named after and what is the purpose of the organization? dr. fraser-rahim: abdullah quilliam first converted to islam in the u.k., in the united kingdom, in the 1800's. and quilliam as an organization we is in north america and extremism composed of former extremists themselves who had gone down the pathway of al qaeda, as well. we have a new report coming out

was one --idual who individual of the early days, actually one of the youngest who has an individual been a member of al qaeda and will be announcing him and doing some efforts, as well, in the united states. so we have been engaging on this and i've seen this from the government side, having our brief senior level policymakers engaged with our counterparts, worked it, academic sense, too, as well, and on the outside, as well, working on ideological rehabilitation point to point with individuals. this is not easy work. this is very much the policy do, we put out policy analysis like what we're seeing today. we deal with the media. we also roll up our sleeves in real issues of how do you deal with preventing individuals going down that pathway and this experience is unique, particularly the african american one, as well. is that we have been dealing

with gang prevention. we have been dealing with drug addiction. highs andes are the the lows of individuals who are very wealthy and successful to are in publico housing facilities and we've dealt with the issue day in, day out, violent extremism in its full expression and i think that approach is important. a lot of individuals who push back, particularly quite frankly within muslim communities that c.v.e. is -- is c.v.e.? dr. fraser-rahim: countering violent extremism is in some way anti-muslim, in some way against muslims at large. this community has been front and center involved with communities. we live in the community. we are on the boards of community. are in the inner city in community. we give money in communities. and we have engaged with forms so if all think that's important what we tell our co-religionists, too, well, engaging this issue in

a balanced fashion, being honest -- the fact of the can say this. black-on-black crime is a tough issue to deal with. a cousin who was shot 18 times in the chest at 17 years old. thing to dealgh with. but that's the same issue with me, also, when i was in issuesent working on from being in pakistan and afghanistan dealing with issues gtmo and formers. this is a responsibility for us to do it in a way that is nuanced, it's surgical, and it's tailored. peter: anything to add? yaya: no. [laughter] peter: we'll turn to questions. if you have a question, can you we have the mic because the c-span audience and identify yourself before asking the question. no questions? this gentleman here? audience: yes. -- mentioned in 1975, i'm

imam muhammad brought on this mass conversion and you went on talk about 300 mosques and all the professional and political figures that grew out of that movement. where is that movement today? and where do you see yourself helping that movement? you? dr. fraser-rahim: normally i'm in sort of the capacity of my islyst hat and i think this a rare moment where i'm playing dual hats to the personal side, as well. this.product of i've studied -- i studied thensively throughout middle east and west africa. i'm a product of the community itself. really, in many respects, not just me, there are thousands of are -- come from my same experience who are in many

different experience, in many different circles, who have been veryng and i think in a balanced fashion, who are very their religious understanding of islam, who take middle-of-the-way approach and have been quietly doing the work without a lot of fanfare, without a lot of conversation, and have been engaged in aspects domestically and internationally. so i would argue that going stilld, the community is strong. i think the community still is being one in which they are making sure to advise where they with theirage co-religionists, as well. with you, the real challenges of the larger backrsation of pushing against extremism is often inter-muslim conversation and inter-muslim conversation largely isn't taking place and mostone in which the

divided hour in america is on american christians. the most divided hour for american muslims is on friday. if you go to any of the mosques there's noociation, partition for women. it's an open space for are,iduals to come as you regardless if you are religious or you're not religious at all. observe.it and the mosques are packed, if you go to the older spots in withngton, it's filled diverse groups of individuals. there are visitors on a regular basis. spaces andpen they're safe spaces for people. thriving. it's peter: go ahead. yaya: i would say the community is still here. i would say there is a need to exert more of its sort of presence. think like muhammad said, people are -- communities are doing what they're doing, working in their job in their communities, doing all types of but i like people do

think the missing piece has been highlighting or elevating or -- know, obviously people are doing something because you have people in these positions but i don't think samecly there's the exposure and i think a lot of that is internal. hasink that's the community not really engaged media in a strategic way. i think there's also an appetite for other things. was -- iion, when i was someone who grew up out of the 1980's and 1990's hip-hop. wass very focused what going to with the black community, from that era. afro was -- i era, militantntric hip-hop era. imamn't know about muhammad at all growing up in california, personally, back then. thatfe comes from community and i learned and much andr become exposed to it realized all this stuff was going on and i wasn't aware of it so it's not always that aren't doing everything.

sometimes there's not the same exposure. that's right part of it. peter: one thing that's always struck me, obviously, there are andican muslim communities, obviously that's a good thing or makehing because you can an argument. take apac, a pressure group for issues in america, do you think -- there's care and other groups. speak for american-muslims writ large. should there be an analog effectiveat is more at -- if the answer's no -- that's more effective, with the caveat that there's so many different groups, it's hard to speak with one voice. community well served by the pressure groups that exist, i guess is the question. dr. fraser-rahim: this is my sense, we may disagree. i think there's something unique that welam in america would be -- it might be a mistake to try to -- which happened.s what has

people trying to make islam an ethnicity. i think it happens. it's not with malintent. to a muslim american community on campus, maybe it's of one ethnicity. but there may be different political aims. i think it's fine. it may bee that, troubling. dr. fraser-rahim: i think you to have multiple -- we're and peopleeings operate many expressions. you need to have many voices out there. no one speaks for all of islam. no one at all. there are many muslims of varying expressions and we and e operate think thathat and i

should -- particularly in western experiences, it's more important than ever to amplify that diversity. about somebody that major hassan has a double cousin, a lawyer in virginia. me, i haveething to secularized muslim, i play golf, i voted for george w. bush -- different from his cousin who hood --4 people at fort but no one speaks for me. which i thought was an groups that-- the do exist are care -- it's religious in flavor, right? brotherhooduslim organization, i guess, in some form?or dr. fraser-rahim: i think secular voices are important to have. you may disagree with me on that. but i think many different voices are really showing the aren experience, people who just culturally muslim just like and jewish

communities do, as well. the palestinian issue isn't the only issue. somalia, whatin happened to jumping up and making sure that women's empowerment issues are heard. lgbt q brothers, charleston, domestic issues. be respectful of our collective identity. we'll have disagreements but to have multiple views and it doesn't have to be guard or/unquote old old institutions that have been around. maybe they don't necessarily speak for individuals anymore. doctor? >> thank you so much. it's been an interesting panel. would comment a

little bit more about a -- that's not a muslim and if you would comment a little bit about how that's played out with the whole saudi influence with all the money coming in. we've seen a push-back in europe that maybe that's not a good thing. i was really curious about your it 45% of muslims in america living below poverty? hear. something we never if you travel in arab countries, a lot of times, a lot of against north africans and probably against black americans, as well. of things tobunch comment on. thank you. dr. fraser-rahim: one of the things, the communities, imam muhammad, they have soup kitchens. they're for all americans. and get a warm meal right down the street in washington, in my home town, in california. i can go anywhere and they open

their homes, they open their to help everyone. imam muhammad was the first involved withbe interfaith activity. recognize that my neighbor was orthodox jewish family that i used to go for shabbat dinners and i respected them and i also to evangelical and catholic friends. i give you that point as an example to say that the muslim community isn't all wealthy and assemble. successful. there are individuals struggling andeet day-to-day needs need spiritual support but also need jobs and resources and the community takes that seriously address those in a balanced fashion. relates to racial issues

in the muslim community, listen, you many occasions studying in egypt and morocco, wase individuals -- i watching a video recently where they may not know the assumption that you know a language and the word that you it's quite interesting, as you can imagine. say only give you that to that, that's the reality of life, right? are individuals who -- even faithy within based communities, there's even a racial hierarchy. in islam, we recognize that there's that issue taking place muslims have been vocal about it and have been criticized for their that muslims hasn't

always lived up to the standards of what they say they believe despite religious mandates. traiti think the idea of by those who are not muslim, muslim have the ability cool and let that spread. when you think of muhammad ali -- even malcolm x and the original nation of islam, the be muslim became a thing of pride. you may not have been muslim but thought about islam in the african american context as someone who was prideful, doing right?f, islamic features took on something in the cultural context. now, i think, though that, that's a good sign of what needs now.ppen

i can point to the legacy, early legacy of muslims. what i'm interested in and i what's the about is legacy now, right? would we think of african-american muslims, folks in the past and see how their culture spread and impacted the broader society. what about now? these are things we are things we're thinking about as we engage youth, and pop culture. islamic? i think islam is cool. i think it is really cool, and there are aspects of it that should be wrapped up in a very positive way to fit the needs of the broader community. african-american community and the broader american community in general. i think that is a good thing. peter: just behind the doctor. >> hi, ken russell. quick question, comparing the african-american muslim

experience to muslims abroad, do you think the reason extremism never evolved from the african-american community is because they have legitimate means of influencing political systems? ofa:that gets to the idea american exceptionalism. you'llknowledge that have extremists. it will be impossible to inoculate everyone. one of the key things we saw is one of the things in america that we do not see the same type of radicalization as we see overseas.

some of it is cultural and structural and geographic. in europe, you are in the middle of networks, in germany, where are moving, from tochnya in europe, it's easy connect with networks. back in those days, it was easy to connect with a jihadist group in europe. here in the united states, much more difficult. the u.s. is blessed by being a big island where you do not have the same. andhave radicalization radical preachers, you have that. culturally there has been a more openness to religion in the united states because of and religionory being part of it, or openness for religion, people don't hun the same way as people do in europe. that allows people not only to engage with the political sphere but allows associations of islam. if the jihadist message is that,

the west is keeping you from filling your religion and against your prayer. but if you are having your islamic life, all the things that typically and traditionally you need to be muslim, you're able to do that and you're also engage the society as that, authentically, as a muslim. not perfect. doesn't fit for everyone. but we have more of that in the united states. peter: this gentleman. >> hi, can you you lay out more specifically the recommendations from your report of how imam mohammed's community can be used for efforts in other communities? dr. fraser-rahim: i laid out a already. and i think one, and i will walk through a few of them. one, we recommend engaging african-american muslim imams. with theirk is

experience, having worked in the prison system. and understanding various individuals who have varying degrees of ideological interpretation, including some very hard on cellacy. just african-american muslims who have been able to travel, overseas. all of us -- when i was a young boy, my father was the imam at the mosque i grew up in. i was the arabic translator. i read through these nerdy texts and going through very religious resource.being of they have the religious muchstanding but are very part of the american experience, as well. that's one. secondly, we offer an alternative to preventing violent extremism. the program offering preventative tools. off-ramping efforts of some of the work that obviously we have been doing with quilliam and working point to point with individuals who have already

been radicalized and offering expressions. the formula, changing individuals to not have them want to overthrow the state. also making them part of the american fabric and not having them stray into a black nationalist rhetoric. it seems similar to the issues about the broader arab world. pakistan and the larger sub continent. it can be very helpful. thirdly, we offer a rapid response as it relates to individuals. we title it rapid response office within the u.s.g. to violentor counter extremism. essentially having individuals who are qualified to deal with these issues, there are a lot of individuals working this problem set. to come on this issue quickly overnight. question. raises the he trump administration does not

the -- to counter violent extremism. the money is just going to run out at some point. it is hard to measure success with countering violent extremism. it seems the trump administration has realized that they need something to counterterrorism. name.y've changed the how do you assess what the trump administration is or is not doing? dr. fraser-rahim:with the atointment of john bolton the nsc, it will be very interesting in terms of the used.ge that will be frankly, a lot of people were thinking, there is an uproar on counter islam. we did not see that. peter: the national security strategy which was written by h.r. mcmaster, they did not use any of these phrases. they talked about jihadist terrorists. they didn't talk about "islamic." know.ust don't dr. fraser-rahim: yeah, we don't know. the jury is still out. in all fairness there is a lot

of pushback that one can give to the administration. i think the administration did not use that language yet. we will see. peter: what did you make when president trump traveled to riyadh and gave a big speech, analog of president obama's cairo.in what did you make of that speech? yaya:talking about earlier last year? peter: yes. yaya: i think, i do not have a strong opinion. i do not have a strong opinion. peter: the speech could of been given by obama, minus the iran-bashing. yaya: being in government. it is easy to say a lot of things when you are out campaigning. then when you go and you are the guest -- or when you are writing actual strategy, there is a big difference. that's one thing we can share.

the political sphere where islam is talked about is very different in many ways from what happens when you are really making decisions, trying to write policy and engage communities or engage governments. it is very different. that would explain the tone of that conversation. peter:here? could you wait for the microphone and identify yourself so the c-span audience knows who can hear you. >> thank you for this presentation. i'm from fund the bridge georgetownat university on islamaphobia. i had a question on the program you had that was mentioned in your report. i was wondering how you determined who would be best chosen to be a participant in this program. how did you develop the curriculum and what is your overall impact and assessments of the effectiveness of the program? peter: what is that program?

dr. fraser-rahim:the program, in arabic, it means to think, reflect.d the project initially started as a pilot project in washington, d.c., and we worked with a cross-section of individuals, muslim and non-muslims, south asian, arab, latino, etc. curriculum, trying to come up with the issues of critical thinking, helping young to think deeply about issues and do it in a fashion safe spacein a environment. in washington, d.c., we used very much from the socratic method, brainstorming ideas, do it in a fashion, a co-constructive way to simplify it. the curriculum was tailored case,, in this u.s.-specific, diverse issues modernity,itics to

history, broader american history. we were able to do this in nigeria, where we deal with islamic civilization, culture, theical thinking using socratic method -- islamic philosophy.person from there, we address issues from northeast nigeria who are dealing with day-in, day-out actions of the islamic state in and boko haram. last month we were dealing with the issue of 110 girls who were abducted in dutchie. this was a group of 45 individuals. the goal is to expand this out. the measurement of success of what we have seen so far is an increased amount of learning, to apply being able critical thinking in an open space with their counterparts in northeast. so issues of gender, of differing religious points, -- viewpoints -- issues of how

to engage the government itself constructive.s yaya: and you have a real life trial participant because my teenage son was part of your first circle in d.c. my son participated, and the thing i would say it gave him was just an appreciation for critical thinking and doing it in an environment where he is with his peers. right? it.all were coaching but it was a group of young teenagers, meeting and discussing these issues, it was but a discovery. for him it is something that helped him become more probing, a deeper thinker. peter: this lady here. >> hi, my name is kristin and i worked at the bridge initiative at georgetown university. muhammad, you said that entrapment is a counterterrorism

tool for law enforcement. please clarify what you mean and how entrapment sits within this counter radicalization model that you and quilliam have in this report? dr. fraser-rahim: what i was explaining was that law enforcement has been using entrapment and particularly urban communities have been with this for a long period of time. this shouldn't be a surprise entrapment is some way unique -- muslim communities say they'veback to been singled out. as an african-american, as a muslim, i recognize that these are two dynamics that are very much part and parcel of law enforcement techniques and tools used since the days of hoover. i do not see that as particularly anything to be -- it is not a surprise. i think with communities thinking that this will be something that will change

overnight -- i think with policy, with advocating if wanting to bee engaged in that, certainly that can be part of it. it is nothing new. i say it is a part of a larger counterterrorism tool, saying that that is part of the larger law enforcement, part of a larger intelligence, security that has been taking place for decades. peter: just to clarify, there is no terrorism case in which entrapment has been argued successfully as a defense. entrapment has a very specific, even from a legal point of view, it is not entrapment. usually when the undercover informant goes in, he says to the person on our or five times on tape, do you really want to this? that is very persuasive if it a jury trial or a strong plea.nt to take a yaya: the use of informants is

part of the law enforcement tool kit. peter: this gentleman here. i think this will be the last question. thank you. >> hi. grayson slobber, student at the university of colorado. you guys talked about counter extremism and radicalism. seems to me there's a unique problem in doing that on the today.al left a good example is the founder of your organization being mislabeled by the southern poverty law center as an anti-muslim extremist, which is ridiculous. in my mind. my question is, how would you recommend we attack that problem, and try to create some unity on our side, and attacking a problem that should be a universal one, that we should all want to solve. dr. fraser-rahim:i think you captured it well. there are individuals and organizations who have done some

good work historically. they have lost their bearings a bit in the contemporary context. so we believe in constructive engagement with all sides. i think the left, the right, and perhaps those heavenly above need to find a careful balance of how do we work in a nuanced fashion on these issues. just labeling individuals that can get people hurt and killed can affect people's lives, including death threats. i think that it has to be done in a way where it is balance. work with quilliam and me being head of it is to keep that balance moving forward and this report is part of that. showing that balanced fashion, everything we said today is part of building off the tradition of the great work of the community imam muhammad but also the work that we seek to have coalitions

across all political aisles and well.s communities, as yaya: i would say i think you are right, a lot of this, i come from the standpoint where we often think about things based on what we are exposed to. and what we expose ourselves to. i think the biggest thing i am seeing in this environment, where everyone is in their corners and in their camp, and there seems to be more interested in proving your point of view, the thing i like to bring is exposure. right? how often do you get to talk to muslims who have worked in counterterrorism? a lot of people have views about counter terrorism from fox news. right? have they ever talk to a muslim counterterrorism person? people who areicancy c.b.e.? have they dealt with someone who f.b.i. andith the understands about these

nuance.t issues, that i think that is a key thing we need, more exposure. if you have exposure to someone the radical on side, who has been radicalized certain ideas, if you're not exposed to them, how are you going to understand it? we have to get away from trying to prove our positions. we want our organization to get points. engage and learn. my thought at the end of the day, i'll end with a quote that think is appropriated, which is, in terms of why aren't people, why don't we have these forums and learn about these experiences. i will quote the doughboy from movie "boyz n the hood." "either they don't know, they don't show, or they don't care." we have to really put that to people. do we really want to solve this what's, engage and show

going on? or just be with ourselves and prove our point? that is what we have to address. peter: i want to thank both of you gentlemen for an interesting and illuminating conversation. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] weather 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [indiscernible] >> the c-span bus is traveling our 50the country in capitals tour. we stopped in phoenix, arizona, what's the most important issue in their state? >> i stand here in support of funding.ic school arizona is last for teacher pay and 48th for per-pupil funding

state's hurting the economic competitiveness. companies like amazon are passing arizona by. it's an important issue that needs to be fixed so the state and grow strong. >> hi, an important issue in k-12 education. we rank 49th in the country in per-people funding for our schools. we need to make funding our schools and helping teachers a bigger priority. red today here at the capitol in support of our get them the support and respect they deserve. >> president of wtccc. advocating here student engagement advocacy and leadership. most important public issue is lack of public we're hereunding so to combat that through advocating through the repeal of esa vouchers, advocating for

funding for prison and school and also address issues with teacher retention. >> i'm from phoenix, arizona. an issue that's important to me public education. i don't feel we did that enough in arizona and it's time we pay andhers what they deserve support the classrooms that especially focus on empowering students in the state. >> the most important issue state and nationwide is actually two things. public education and funding necessary to meet objectives in public education, academic the best opportunities.

secondly it's the critical thetage area of teachers to profession and filling all the positions necessary to provide our students the best classroom and most highly qualified teachers, especially of math and science and even technology. >> voices from the states on c-span. analyticacambridge employee christopher wily appeared before a british house of commons select committee yesterday telling parliament the was won through fraud. four-hourarly testimony tonight at 10:30 p.m. eastern here on c-span. ahead, president trump visits richfield, ohio, tomorrow, to talk about his proposal live at

1:50 p.m. on c-span. eastern,night at 8:00 two photo journalists talk about their experience covering the the islamic state and iraqi city of mosul. here's a preview. this is a still from -- this phone.oto right from my the rebel in the foreground is an armored isis suicide car bomb. i'll use the military car lance. parlance. a suicide vehicle borne improvised explosive device that detonated against sadly, the initial reports were incorrect. policeman standing 40 meters away was killed from the blast wave of that explosion. inspecting the rubble of this explosion, the isis fighter

driving the vehicle, not only was he driving a suicide car bomb, he was wearing a suicide ak-47 with six magazines. if his car broke down, he was going to run out towards the good guys and detonate himself. he was ready to die. i will tell you. most of him was splattered against the wall. i sat and talked with him for a few minutes. it was an interesting moment. you have never been at costco in the meat department and seen this stuff. what was left of him was there. obviously a human being at one point. i asked him, where are you? what are you experiencing? are you where you thought you would be? he did not answer back. he only had half of the face. it was interesting to be that close to the