as always, we will take your calls. join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. back to work week for members of congress. facebook ceo mark zuckerberg testifying tuesday before a joint senate committee hearing and before the house energy and commerce committee wednesday. we will have that for you live on the c-span networks and c-span radio. democrat conor lamb sworn in thursday -- he won in pennsylvania's special election. the house taking up a proposed balance budget amendment. as we begin this sunday morning, april 8, welcome to c-span's "washington journal." cut december, a massive tax

passed -- this week, republicans want to pass a balanced budget amendment. we are exceeding a $21 trillion debt. where do you think congress should cut spending? 202 the area code in washington. 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. if you are an independent, (202) 748-8002. join us on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. and send us a tweet. we will read it. @cspanwj. many of you already weighing in on this topic on our facebook page. we will get to that in a moment. the president spending the weekend at white house. house reporters following this.

and john bolton taking over as national security adviser. what is going on this week? guest: it will be busy. ambassador bolton will start tomorrow. he is taking over from general mcmaster as national security adviser. forssador bolton is known his time in the bush administration for being hard charging, a hawk on topics like north korea. this is a critical time for the president. he is building up to a possible summit in the weeks or months ahead with north korea. about a week is out from a meeting with the japanese prime minister at mar-a-lago, which will focus on north korea and trade. and at the end of the week, we anticipate that ambassador bolton will travel on his first

trip with this president -- on the president's first trip to latin america. drop we saw a significant on the stock market, i will point down more than 700 points, posing more than 500 points. it has been back and forth with the market worried about a trade war with china. how is the administration going to respond? pointed to the stock market as a source of pride. now, he is not mentioning it. guest: you are right. he is not mentioning it. but he has another new topic in place -- new top aide in place, larry goodloe -- kudlow. it has been a busy first week on the job for him. because of this emerging trade war with china paid we think we

should get some better sign on where the dispute is heading. kudlow has been talking about negotiations with china, but there is nothing scheduled. we will see if something will happen on that front. there is a big push to get a deal on nafta ahead of this latin american summit that the president is heading to. if there were a deal in principle, that would help the president sort of change the tenor of this summit, which will deal with countries he has criticized, and change the tenor on trade, showing he is able to get a deal after some talks or negotiation. host: we are talking with roberta rampton, white house reporter for reuters. the front page of the "washington post" -- as the president urges in syria exit, troops see unfinished job.

from syria -- ported lay dozens killed in an apparent chemical attack. details remain sketchy. the u.s. is condemning what happened. how does this complicate what the president's and game is, which is force u.s. troops out of the region? guest: it does complicate it, but cars he clearly want -- because he clearly wants to push ahead on getting the u.s. out of the region. even though his advisers have cautioned him against moving to hastily. -- too hastily. but the past months have shown that the president considers chemical attacks in syria to be abhorrent. the first signs of chemical attacks on his watch, he bombed

syria, bombed an airport. it will be interesting to see how he responds to that, particularly with his new national security adviser in place. from thea statement state department saying the syrian department -- the government must be held accountable. now saying russia also bears responsibility if russia or syria are directly linked to the story of a chemical attack injuring and killing, reportedly, dozens. guest: yes. investor bolton has been seen as more of a hawk on russia then certainly the president has been. will he be giving him more toice in that direction force russia to face consequences, we will have to see. you: roberta rampton, thank

for being with us this sunday morning. we will turn our attention to a $21 trillion debt. where do you think congress should cut spending? already a lot of you weighing in on our facebook page. cliff says an appropriate question for any congress. i wonder why there are so few asking it when obama nearly double the debt in eight years? indy williams -- raise taxes on the top 1%. cut military spending. jon says are you telling me this great tax cut is not deficit neutral like some in this administration said it was going to be? from twitter, congress should cut spending in the discretionary sector. from my lindbergh -- myland burke, he promised he would cut -- balance the budget in eight years. he is off to a poor start.

some background on what we are facing -- [video clip] >> the u.s. treasury thursday wrapping up the final leg of this week's whopping $258 billion sale of new government debt. reuters reporter kate do good -- >> this is the second-largest ever issuance of debt over a three-day period by the u.s. government. the reason they need to raise so much money is the tax bill is expected to add $1.5 trillion to the u.s. deficit. and the budget deal recently passed by congress is expected to add about $300 billion. the american government needs to raise money. >> that money is not as cheap as it used to be. demand in the latest debt auction was so lackluster, the government had to pay the highest interest rate in seven years to complete the sale. investors demand a higher payback, all but ensuring the

auto reserve will increase interest rates. usuallying like this happens during recessions. this is not normal spending for good economic times. people are not sure exactly what will happen with the debt going so high. it may start prompting economic problems, if the deficit grows large enough. typically, if the government spends more during a recession, in this case, it may be that the government causes a recession with its spending. if thend fears that economy slides into recession, washington will not have any tools left to get the economy going again. host: that courtesy of reuters. you can watch that piece on "usa with -- website according to a newly released

report, congress helping drive up the federal deficit, pushing the national debt as a percentage of economic output to levels not seen since after world war ii. trillion dollar deficits will return permanently by next year, three years earlier than projected. a new report from the committee for a responsible federal budget -- tax cuts, spending help pushing the national debt to historic highs. read it at usatoday.com. carol says perhaps when it comes that welfare spending, because i of casesonally known of abuse by a few who could do well without it. on our facebook page, charlie has this point -- $21 trillion debt. where should congress cut spending? lol! the will not be any spending cuts.

it is only going to end one way, and it is going to be ugly for future generations. steve is joining us from indiana . good morning. we will go to patrick to your good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. two things. you never seem to mention when saddam hussein used chemical weapons three times on the kurds and three times on the iranians, and when the iranians went to the u.n., reagan vetoed that. back to your spending, starting in the 1980's, reagan had said there out the banks with the brady bonds. then, we had to long-term whenal -- the latest is bush wrote a check to the banks for $900 billion. if you add all of that up, that is about $5 trillion in

spending, with interest. fdic went from 40,000 in the 80's -- now it is 250,000. i know a lot of the guests at have a lot of money in the bank, but i doubt the average caller has anywhere close to a quarter million dollars. now private -- you can go to your stockbroker and put $750,000 in two an account. that is protected by a private insurer. i think warren buffett and the rest of this guy should open a bunch of trading accounts, use cipro, and we can eliminate fdic. one other thing -- that chemical plant harvey destroyed in texas is still burning.

in 2014, the epa says you should not put concrete domes over your generators in case you get flooded -- host: we moved to john from los angeles. democrats line. how should congress cut the nation's debt? good morning. caller: hi. host: good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? i wish i could say to you and with such intricacy of knowledge as a dead woman who preceded me. -- should we reduce the debt which we must do. and where should it come from? brief to sayher this. there is blame on all

sides. i know it is not exactly apples and apples, but the constant threats of government shutdowns andverybody has their thing project interests, whatever in the congress of the united states. that being said, i am not saying it is a hopeless cause. to answer your western, i will say this -- i consider myself a guns and butter democrat. i am not against military spending. but, for example, we must be putting more money into infrastructure. -- and put more money now mr. trump his administration and all of these characters -- including the environment.

-- it is ao many difficult question for me to answer. i wish i had more knowledge. thank you for taking my call. host: this is from mark, who says on twitter both parties love to spend money pay they talk big about cutting spending and reducing the debt, but they never do. on our facebook, julie has the following comment -- that congress' pay, retirement pay, pay.ck elaine says how about the cost of security and travel? ganesh says when he have a bigger businessman trying to bankrupt the country through outer mismanagement and unaffordable tax cuts, things will get worse. "business insider" is writing about the nation's debt as well with a look at the debt clock in

new york city. the u.s. national debt is rising. 36% faster than the economy. in the span of a single day, the national debt grew $73 billion. in a day. to put that in context, $73 billion is larger than the size of most major companies, and general motors, ford, southwest airlines. in the national debt grew by $250 billion. $250 billion is larger than the gdp of new zealand, greece, and oregon. more than twice the size of the gdp of new mexico. just in a single month. most disturbingly, the national debt has grown by more than $1 trillion just in the last six months. last year, the u.s. economy grew in real terms, i.e.

shipping out inflation. even if you include inflation, the size of the u.s. economy increased by 4.4%. yet the national debt through by 6%. from new jersey, on our democrat line. caller: good morning. first, i would cut the defense budget, because we stand 10 times more than our closest competitor. and yet, there is always a lot of waste. always a lot of waste. it does not have to be. then i would cut corporate welfare. ironically, people that are enjoying the new tax bill, 83% of that tax bill went to the top 2%. in doing that, they made those tax breaks permanent. to 98% of us,went

which, in six or seven years, our tax breaks are going to stop , and we are going to be liable for the old $1.5 trillion of that tax bill. secondly, the republicans are only conservative when democrats are in office. host: thanks for the call. if you go to the u.s. national debt clock, you can see how quickly the numbers continue to add up. of nation's debt in excess one $1 trillion. the cost per citizen nearly $65,000. the cost per taxpayer more than $174,000. next is jared, joining us from brooklyn. welcome to the conversation. caller: a few points. number one, tax cuts did not add to the debt. the only thing it did was give people their money back. i think it should the expanded even more.

lower income people can get off of medicaid and all of these other programs and be able to do things on their own. another point is the top 1% paid the most of our budget, and discretionary spending, which is the military all democrats hate, is only one third he out of that 1/3, only point percent of the whole budget is military. this says -- and, from vivian. congress does not need to cut spending. they need to have a debt tax to pay off the debt. john wallace on our facebook with the following comment, saying let's start with their salaries. defund planned parenthood, corporate welfare. stop sending billions overseas. scott brown says start with century cities and entitlements for illegals. verett says the military

budget is the elephant in the room, and trump put it on steroids while cutting taxes for people who do not need a tax cut. from minnesota. caller: good morning. i wonder why someone does not ,old these people in office congressman, representatives -- why they are not held accountable for the spending that they do on their own. how it goes,tive but i believe they have private cars, private drivers, an apartment, if they need it, in washington, a home here, a home there -- normal people cannot do that. back tocan do is get the constitution and get back to we, the people. what that means is we own them. we run them.

they are under us. we are their bosses. when it comes down to wwe, the -- people are spreading it all the time. it does not mean we should do anything other than vote right. you do not vote for someone because they are making all sorts of bluster and noise about things you may want. you do some research and study the person before you give them a vote. that is all i got to say. host: thank you. this is from stephen green -- reception -- recession recipe, cut taxes for the wealthy, borrow money, borrow money, borrow money. senator rand paul voted against the house senate republican claiming i can not vote to the already more than $20 trillion national debt. i promise kentucky to vote against reckless government spending.

he cap theember when again, a session -- busy week in washington. mark zuckerberg will be front and center before two committees tuesday and wednesday on capitol hill. you can watch it also on our website at c-span.org. democrat line. how should congress cut spending? caller: the first thing they need to do is say we are not 51ing a parade and save million dollars. we do not need a parade to honor our vets. and most vets do not even want to do the parade. the next thing they need to do is forget about the stupid wall and call back the troops that have been deployed. host: thank you. when you call in, be sure to turn the volume down so we can hear you. let's go to jasper in indiana.

independent line. caller: i agree with the gentleman that was talking just before me, because our leadership is lacking. they get paid, but they do not get anything done. that is my answer. omaha,reston from nebraska, democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think that when you look at that time chart, everything is going to the military. everyone else just gets a sliver of a piece of high off of that pie chart. we do not feel safer. before,e the guy said we are spending three or four times more than all of the other countries put together. will not do that -- that is where they want to put all of the money. they want our money to go to military companies. what they want to do is take all of the entitlement away.

they getns, every time in there, they want to cut everybody's social security, have people working until they are 90 years old. everyone is not sitting behind a desk like they are, just pushing a pen and talking. years of watching this republican party. every time they get in there, either recession habits while or itre in there, proceeds after they leave. host: again, the house taking of a balanced budget amendment vote. we will have it for you as debate continues on the house floor later this week, being pushed forward by bob goodlatte, republican from virginia. eric says i remember this same conversation from the 1980's. back then, we knew if we did not do something, the u.s. would spend itself into oblivion. we did nothing, so welcome to oblivion.

cbs news with this headline -- under the president's watch, the national debt has exceeded $21 trillion for the first time. steve joins us next from pendleton, indiana, good morning. caller: good morning. everybody wants to talk about the debt and everything, but most people do not even realize when the federal reserve was created, it created a debt-based economy. they relinquished the power of the purse from congress to central banks. it is called the federal reserve act from 1913. you can look it up. at some point along the line, an economy where they issue paper rectangles.

they have to create more debt year after year in order for the system to sustain. if the people do not create debt, the system has to, or the system will implode. if you look at your quarters, your dimes -- 19 to steve for and earlier, those are silver quarters and dimes. now, they just issued us -- i call them slugs. and these big paper rectangles -- they are nothing but paper. all of these countries sending commodities -- i am grateful for it, because all we have our paper rectangles. people need to educate themselves. you will continue to see debt, no matter what. you guys want to cut this, cut that -- it is all b.s. it is fake. it is a fake system. there has never been this kind

of system that has ever survived. take up, america. they have been lying to you and have been lying to you since the day you were born. host: if you are listening on c-span radio or serious xm, p otus channel 124, we are talking about the nation's debt. in excess now of $21 trillion. cal thomas will join us at the top of the hour. times, western continue our series looking at 1968. a look at the democratic party and the state of liberal politics with some key players, including president johnson and senator robert f kennedy. the wall street journal has this analysis -- and honest federal budget would help control spending and the debt here is an excerpt. what america's need from our leaders is a new kind of a jerk.

spending,er taxes, infrastructure, health care financing center on policy arguments. they paid too little attention to the big picture -- a framework or budget voices. how government makes those choices, who is accountable for them, the clinical process avoids these questions because no institutional mechanism mandates their debate. he concludes by saying i have offered an idea that the total limited to the average annual inflation-adjusted revenue of the previous seven years. all aurora, colorado, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. what i will propose i think falls under the category of too many trees, so you cannot see the forest. if you go to ebay now and want $10 of any kind

of product, let's say from china na, if you compare the price from your stay chinese, it is drastically cheaper. if you look at the reason why buying it from china is much cheaper, it is because the chinese government subsidizes the postal system. so they can sell things at a much deeper discount. this is how they support their export, which helps gdp and helps with the deficit. but what the u.s. is doing is literally doing the opposite. if you want to ship any kind of product -- even half a pound or --er a pound -- it costs you let's say south korea, because i have done it. it costs at least $30, $32.

host: thank you. this says the u.s. congress does not do anything until the deadline. back in 92et saying 1990 two, or in paul in 2008. we deserve what we get. headlines from the new york post -- a killer fire at trump tower on the 50th floor. one resident, 67-year-old, died in the fire. a report of six injuries. the president tweeting yesterday the fire at trump tower is out here very confined. well-built building. fire men and women did a great job here thank you. this headline -- that late afternoon fire on the 50th floor at trump tower in midtown manhattan. by the way, the president and first lady here in washington. no members of the trump family were injured.

walter is joining us on the democrat line -- where do you think congress needs to cut spending? caller: good morning. i think it would be definitely the military. we spend far too much on the military. i was in the marine corps myself. --r the years, i have seen there is a lot of waste in the military. i think that we have already got estructto distract -- d the world many times over. we should concentrate on that and maybe concentrate on feeding people little more than bombing. host: thank you. front page of the "new york times, a look at the new york post -- the "denver post." the denver post rebuking its ownership with this opinion editorial.

news matters. the denver post rebuking the ownership. that is available at nytimes.com. robert joins us from detroit am a republican line. caller: good morning. quite frankly, they say the debt is $21 trillion. it is actually $53 trillion. if you look at it just on things we have not paid off yet, like social security payments. quite frankly, i am a young guy. i will not be able to get social security payments, because by the time i am old enough, we will be out of money. 2050, we will be in $53 trillion of debt. not adding a penny to the debt, just what we promised to our citizens. we need to cut social security.

we need to cut spending. that is where all of the money is coming from. a large number of it comes from the military budget. of ittically, almost all comes from social security and medicaid and medicare. we need to cut those immediately. the newis headline from york times. facing the hot seat. how mark zuckerberg is practicing sitting in one as he repairs for the hearing. it will take place before a senate joint committee tuesday and in front of the house energy and commerce committee wednesday. jean joins us next from yorktown, virginia. caller: good morning. everyone has hit it overall -- cuts across the board. am militaryy i owned, because i am retired military, and we must maintain proficiency and the latest technology as a relates to our

military and protecting our country. however, in regards to the news of a proposed budget with the military spending, watch where that money goes as far as government contracts with trump. i feel that the trump family -- no family, nor trump, should be able to invest in any of those contracts for those companies. they should not benefit from it. i still want to see mexico build a wall. the state pays for the national guard. host: thank you for the call. no one has called in yet to say congress should cut their salaries -- jan, thanks for that comment. this from park storm -- this conversation is futile, because congress is no longer in control. you can go to the committee for responsible federal budget

online with this story -- america's deteriorating budget outlook. they will look at key questions facing congress and the president and what it means for this generation and future generations. aat from the committee for responsible federal budget. harvard university has a look at the national debt, calling it a social justice issue. it is available at the harbor political review website. is outlook for 2018 worrying. the budget, eliminates the same spending cap's the republican-controlled congress put in place during the obama administration to limit deficit spending. eliminating these spending capsule allow the deficit to rise another $300 billion this year, adding $1.7 trillion to the national debt in the next decade. at the same time, republican tax 1.5 will reduce revenue by trillion dollars. many republicans claim the tax

plan will a for itself by promoting economic growth, thus more tax revenue, but this is false. the non-partisan joint committee on taxation estimates tax cuts .ill cost more than $1 trillion for progressives as well as conservatives, balancing the federal budget and reducing the national debt should the a top priority. vivian is joining us, fredericksburg, virginia, democrat line. thank you for joining us. caller: thank you for taking my call. last month i called -- i am so glad you are doing this program. i asked you to do a program on this. where is the money? risingt should not be now. about the program's trump has cut and programs he has -- is not even finding? -- funding. our debt should be going down, not up here there are so many

vacant sees he has not held. there are programs he has eliminated. there are programs he has not funded. say aremoney they spending overseas -- i do not think he is sending any over there. so i am so glad you are having this program. some people do not think about that. i think some of these people -- they do not even know how to do simple math like adding and subtracting. it is so sad, because when obama was in there, the tea party did not want him to spend. all of the debt was obama's inlt -- but they had w. put unfunded wars, two of them. unfunded.art d, obama had to add it to his. like i said, they do not think and cannot count. host: thank you. we remember your phone call, you

and others saying this is an issue that needs to be addressed, which is why we are focusing on it today. this from the "he'll" newspaper. the trade warfear could cripple the tax cuts message. that is on thehill.com. pennsylvanias from , republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to ask for comments about -- i hear that some of your viewers are calling in 'bout cutting the senators salaries, health care, pension. i do not hear anything about the over one million federal employees who are making a decent wage, decent pensions, decent health insurance, and i do not hear them say they think about cutting their pay or benefits.

the biggest drain on our economy is government. a lot of it has to come from the employees. i used to work for a private , the united states. i have over 30 some years. the company would come to us during negotiations and say we are losing money. the employees would have to take a cut. if you do not take a cut, you do not have the plant open. host: thanks for the call. this is from the washington post. republicans considering a balanced budget amendment after adding more than $1 trillion to the deficit. a photograph of house speaker paul ryan. opening sentence -- house republicans are considering a vote on a balanced argent amendment, a move that would proclaim their desired eliminate the federal deficit, even as they control a congress that added more than $1 trillion to it. independent line.

caller: what's going on? agree with i everyone saying yeah, they need to cut spending on the military. that is true. they spend $40 billion on aircraft carrier -- come on, why do you have to be the big dog in the yard, why can you not play along? question is why can they not stopped spending. just stop spending. let us make our money back. but they just keep spending and spending and spending. we do not need to cut, we just need to stop spending. host: we go to tim, democrat line. caller: thank you. i think everyone in federal and state government should get a

pension of 70% instead of 100%. thank you. we got to allen, atlanta, georgia, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think you are the best host of the crew you have their. -- there. have more shows on how do we fix the problems -- a lot of people watch c-span. i'm sure our congress people listen. so maybe we can make suggestions they have never heard of -- host: how do we fix the problem on the debt? what our solutions from your standpoint? caller: it's easy. my preamble is that congress people are interested in money. how much money they can make. how they can establish fiefdoms

and have their families become wealthy. because of that self interest, look at the increasing national debt and congressional pensions, so if you look at the term of eight congress person, eight years, and the national debt goes up 30% in those eight years, their personal pension decreased by the same amount. host: do you think congress would go along with something like that? caller: here is the problem. you have to get the public really upset, because the are only worried and afraid of the public. they are not afraid of al qaeda or isis or any other external group here they are afraid they will not be reelected, so they will tell whatever lies are necessary to get reelected. because of our system, which is

fundamentally flawed, they do get reelected. 90% of incumbents get reelected because the public has no idea who they are voting for, so the word "incumbent" on the ballot helps nudge them. so if the public gets really upset and starts pounding on the congress people, which includes the president and presidential pensions, then they may actually do it. then suddenly, because of self interest, they will start actually being concerned about how much money is being spent. that will solve the problem. nothing else will. because if they can get away with it, they will continue to spend, because it does not affect them. affected,e personally if it personally hurts them, then they will be careful about where money is spent, like this

wall. -- $40ll will cost 40 billion to build. it will be completely ineffective, because the mexicans will -- of people who walls will over the get letters. if you go past the border patrol office, you will see piles of letters in their storage yard, because you cannot stop people coming into this country unless to earn their ability an income, in which case that would be the most effective solution. thanks for phoning in. we appreciate it. call again -- don't be a st ranger. caller: i will call in in about a month. host: thank you. we do ask you to wait 30 days so other people can call in.

on twitter, paul ryan tried to blame obama for the national debt the second he became president. this reviewer saying the that is going up because of the interest and the republican unfunded wars. "business headliner" says the ..s. debt is rising 36% faster we read this earlier. in the span of a single day, the national debt grew by 73 billion dollars. to put that in context, $73 billion is larger than the size of most major companies, like general motors, ford, and southwest airlines. in the month of february, the national debt grew $215 billion. to put that in perspective, $215 billion is larger than the gdp of new zealand, greece, and or again, more than twice the size of the gdp in new mexico. just in a single month.

the national debt grew by more than $1 trillion just in the last six months. that is from "business insider." michigan. us from caller: good morning. we are focusing on the wrong end of the equation initially. we need a value added tax that will tax underground economies off the bat. what you have to do is catch those people who are not paying taxes. the second thing you need to do is close some of these military bases around the world and bring those people back home. and then, you need jobs. trump is trying to focus on jobs. we need to re-finalize the working establishment in this nation. and we need to have good paying jobs.

these people will then be paying taxes. we need to get able-bodied people back to work. this is a tremendously wealthy country that our founding fathers gave us. host: thank you. we hope you two in on c-span 2 book tv and c-span 3 american history tv. it is all on our website, c-span.org. today, we travel to norman, oklahoma to look at that's history and literary life and we also look at national weather center. offerings are online at c-span.org/citiestour. debbie's next from michigan. where does congress need to cut spending? caper: they need to put a

on the president's vacations every week in florida, charging the secret service to ride around in golf carts. i would like to ask a question of the young man who called earlier who suggested that social security and medicare should be eliminated, because he was young and never going to collect it. i recall feeling that as well when i was in my 20's, but i just started collecting it last month. so i would ask that young man, is he support -- prepare to support his parents and grandparents until they die? if social security and medicare were eliminated? i do not think anybody who works in congress deserves a pension. they should get the same pension that every other person gets. you get one after you work for 30 years. thanks for the call. the u.s. national debt clock and a look at what this means for it average taxpayer and what

means is a percentage of the gdp. medicare, medicaid, social security, and the defense budget -- high ticket items. thela joins us from washington, d.c. area. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to address one of your callers who says federal workers need to be, i guess, limited. i would like to tell him that, trust me, most of us government workers are not making nearly as much as these congresspeople, -- avail get to bail ourselves of the perks they get, like private planes and other types of advantages that we do not get. actually, we are the ones doing the work find the scenes. if we were not working, nothing would get done in government. thank you. host: thank you. another viewer saying start by having iran return the $150

billion obama gave in cash illegally back in 2016. the "national review" is calling it the crash, with a reference to a potential car crash, saying like so much else in washington, d.c., the national debt is speeding out of control with no working brakes and no one apparently at the wheel. news is joining us from york, independent line. good morning. caller: hi. my comment is in terms of the deficit. i am at the ripe old age of 67. so i go back to the 60's -- 1960's, growing up. what we have now was a problem then. $75defense department paid for a hammer you and i could get at walmart. government who believes -- my parent used to say the only thing that trickles

down in a chuckle down economy is dead. in terms of the wars, it is time to get out of them. to take care of our own people. no one wants to get out of the wars, because if you do, you have to admit it was a mistake and people died in vain, and no one wants to do that. we need to go to what ron paul said, which is get rid of the government -- the departments that do not belong there. my final thing, because i am always angry about it, is this obama, who got a peace prize, made more wars than any other thing. next in go to alice california, democrat line. good morning. i think the way that congress should cut spending is by closing existing tax loopholes. you can investigate and reduce

medicare, welfare, and every existing fraud, examine expenditures that are set --rseas to repair and also get the same tax consultant that our president has. to make sure he does not need to have to pay tax to help us out. thanks for the call. well over 1000 of you have weighed in on our facebook page. you can continue to weigh in. at 2020 news, a look politics, with john's -- with john kasich and martin o'malley. house coverage has begun as well. much more to come in the week we travel to early primary and caucus states,

including iowa and new hampshire. we hope you will follow it with us here on c-span. illinois, republican line. thanks for waiting. caller: hi. i have a question before i hang up. i hope i can get that in. my comment on the national debt is we have to start somewhere. come ona lot of people -- mostw or any show, of them are selling or writing a book. since you have to start somewhere, anybody who works for the government and gets paid by the taxpayer, whether in congress, the senate, the administration, the president -- when they write a book, there should be a law that says 20% off the top goes directed to the national debt.

most people would not be reading their book if they did not cumulate their expertise and knowledge by getting paid by us, the taxpayer. my question would be one of the shows i really liked that you have concerning -- usually have a guest on from two pointers -- iplingers during tax time -- will you have that guest back on? host: we have done that in the past. the tax deadline is april 17, two days later than normal, because the 15th falls on sunday. i will have an answer. debra says start with the pensions of all previous politicians and take away all of their perks. jennifer says military, corporate welfare, private jets, trump --slush funds, everywhere else they need to increase spending.

elected officials need a pay cut. we are getting your calls and comments. elaine joins us from new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. citizens, we vote for congress. why are we not included when it comes serious matters like the budget? i believe his citizens get the opportunity to figure out what the budget should be for each time a politician wins an election, we would have weigh less debt -- way less debt. theye just vote -- and determine everything. you are putting everythign in the hands of white-collar criminals. that's where the danger lies. you allow white-collar criminals

to spend where they like and go through loopholes. it will never be better, because you vote for them, but you allow them to do everything. that is where the problem lies. host: thanks for the call. dorothy in cleveland, ohio. good morning. caller: hi. first of all, before trump took office, the deficit was $20,000. what happened is they gave that big tax cut to the rich, and now they want to have us pay for it. on the backs of the working class and the poor, they want us to pay for the tax cut. saying weese people need to cut back on the federal government -- we do not have anyone in the government. he has not filled half of those positions. not only that, is people that vote pro-life that are

one-dimensional -- they are the reason why these people are still in office. the federal government does not have anything to do with what the federal government is trying to do -- help the poor, the middle class -- they want to take out social security. they are ready put a dent in the -- they already put a dent in the medicare program. most of the programs used to protect americans, they blame it on the federal government did it these tax cuts. usse tax cuts will not give better jobs. we do not see any signs of people getting their jobs. when obama was in office, the going down a little bit. now, it is back up to another trillion dollars thanks to trump. when he leaves office, he will be in a better place -- he was not paying taxes before them. how will you keep taxing the

middle class? the deficit is in crisis now because of that big tax cut. host: thanks for the call. the headline from the -- how johnpost" kelly feted as a west wing disciplinarian as -- how john wing thisd as a west one area. caller: you want to balance the budget, you have to cut spending. that is the first thing. i am talking no more foreign aid , no more anything outside of what it takes to run this country. that is all you can spend money on. nobody has any right to touch our social security or medicare that we pay -- not the government, the working class people pay it. comemeans no foreigners into this country for free. no people who do not work and pay into it.

nobody gets any money that does not belong to them. host: thanks to the call from texas and all of you, your comments, facebook posts, and tweets. to follow up on allen's earlier point with a segment on kiplinger financial, nothing is scheduled, but check our website. we will address that issue. we will focus on the debt and deficit because of earlier callers who wanted us to address that. we appreciate your feedback and ideas. saturday night live back last night with alec all going flying -- alec baldwin playing the president. [video clip] >> first up, a big congratulations to vladimir putin. [laughter] great, veryat, transparent victory in the russian election. fantastic job, putin, even though no one has ever been tougher on russia that i am, including hitler. [laughter]

that is it from me. let's do the baltics and get out of here. gypsy woman, you are first. presidentou much to donald trump on welcoming the nation of lithuania -- >> i am already so bored. wish i was watching "roseanne." she is like a good, rosie o'donnell. [laughter] >> efficient energy or as you might say in america, a big bang for your buck. >> [snoring] >> so in conclusion -- >> she's finally done now whatever you do, don't mention her hair. don't mention her hair. thank you so much for the great speech. by the way, your hair is insane. host: courtesy of nbc'seven i

live. coming up, a conversation with cal thomas, syndicated author and columnist. he says our nation might we reaching a breaking point. later, a series on 1958. we are looking at democratic politics. with us, daughter of senator michael:,nd author the author of 1968, will be focusing on the democratic side of politics at 8:30 eastern time and 5:34 the west coast. our guest is dr. scott with the fda on the president's plan to address truck races. -- drug prices. >> president trump says he will have a press conference that will get drug prices. he says there will be a presentation in april.

i wonder how involved you are and what might be being added. >> it is a good try. i will not front run the president but i will say to you in all honesty answering russian, we have talked about unfinished business and we have been candid about things we want to do in the near term. we want to dress the issue creating more competition in the market. there is still more we could do with respect to urge dressing these issues where we see obstacles to vigorous generic entry. more we will do in the near term and during the next year. >> there has been a lot of criticism from congress folks and that includes representative -- out of maryland. they were expecting -- from the president after a meeting.

this is a big promotion of his and i'mampaign trail curious, do you think with the press conference that we will actually see something someone can put their fingers on and say yes, that will affect drug prices? >> there are a lot of things you can put your finger on and say it will. we have put forward measures that will have an impact on the market creating a more competition. what people are waiting for is one dramatic action and it will have some big dramatic impact for the market. i do not think that exists. people talk about drug deportation. i do not think there is a measure i have seen, not a single measure where you will have dramatic impact on drug prices. it will take a collection of measures that rings downward andsure on overall pricing eventually maybe compel some companies or create an incentive

with repressed products lower. our guest on c-span's newsmaker program 10:00 eastern time and you can listen to it any time on our free c-span radio app. .e welcome back cal thomas you wrote recently that washington is reaching its breaking point. why? a book on how great nations and empires decline and the central region is -- central reason is debt. over $21 trillion. what happens when we approach 100 percent gdp in debt? we are up to our eyeballs. nospend of that there is tomorrow and if we continue, we won't be financially.

this is the decline of nations throughout history. -- as are uncontrolled loss of religiosity in a moral sense, all of these things are coming together in the same time in the united states and no one, particularly congress behind us, is saying no. we're changing our letters from usa to atm. everyone think thinks they are entitled to something. this is going to break our nation if someone doesn't step up and say, you are responsible for your own life and government ought to be a last resort and not a first resource. we will take care of the truly needy but if you are able-bodied and don't work, you don't eat. -- losing ourove moral certainty with this president in the white house? guest: i think it is a general problem. a presidency is not just reflective of the nation but it is in some ways reflective here the concept of right and wrong, column inad, a great the new york times, young women

who hook up and do not remember who they spent the night with we do not want to go back to going said he -- going steady. i grew up in that time and we did not have incurable dvd, we did not have the broken relationships we have today. men were taught to respect women. much better era, i think. this is the definition of insanity, repeating the same behavior and expecting different outcomes. host: you go back to the point about the $21 million debt. the house this week, will put on , a bill that will require a budget. republicans passed a tax cut that will increase the debt and also democrats agreed to the

spending plan and also for the pentagon, eliminating spending caps. guest: it is like waking up in the morning after spending the night with a mistress and then speak -- giving a speech about promiscuity. the president promised to drain the swamp but as reagan said, the only proof of eternal life in washington is a government program. it is easier to kill a vampire than a government program. both suck the life blood out of victims. we cannot go on like this. it is unending. $21 trillion debt and counting, the idea of entitlement programs, i'm entitled to liberty and the rest is up to me. we have exceeded constitutional bounds. we have forgotten history so we will repeat it. no one wants to say no to anyone . a government program, they knock on the door and say how much do you want and will you vote for me in the next election if i give it to you?

both parties do this. it is bipartisan, one of the few things in the town that is bipartisan is spending. no one will ever cut it off in a balanced budget amendment is not going anywhere. it his tried many times before and congress won't do it. host: let's look at where the amount of government spending goes, medicaid and social security. is that were congress needs to make social -- serious decisions? guest: it needs to but it won't. this has been tried before. paul ryan came out with a serious program to reform entitlements be her he was mocked. the left did a commercial of an actor portraying ryan and pushing granny over a cliff in a wheelchair. that is not a serious response to a serious proposal. it had its flaws, but he was addressing the right issue. george w. bush tried it as well with social security, but a

demagogue, this is not a responsible response to a program. to bene knows what needs done. no one actually wants to find a solution to anything. if you find a solution, you take the issue off the table. whether it is poverty or titled -- entitlement reform, whatever it is. it is an issue both sides want , if you find a solution, it hurts their ratings on tv. that is when nothing gets done. not in the states. republicans and democrats many times were together to solve problems. those people are closer to the people than they are in washington. this paul ryan seek reelection this year? guest: i am not a mind reader but i know he is frustrated. he did not want the job in the

first place. conservatives -- the answer is you have got to send more people of an ideological perspective to washington if you want different results. we are a divided country p are a lot of people blame congress for everything. if you want something different, you have to send the kinds of people here that reflect your point of view and maybe something will get done. .ost: our guest is cal thomas our phone lines are open. -- there are reports of another chemical attack in syria with dozens reported killed. the president is saying it is time to pull u.s. church from syria. the department is critical of syria. course syria is denying it just as they always do.

tuesday onlumn on the president's just in that we should pull out of syria. a major mistake. he brags we defeated the caliphate and that is true but unless you completely kill it, it will come back in some form. iraq would love us to pull out of syria. i am thinking of what george mcgovern said. it is not a good policy and worldwide terrorism that does not have a single base. we have to maintain a presence as we have done in south korea. our allies to pony up more money and put it more troops and get more involved, but terrorism is not going away if we pull out. we will allow another to be formed in syria and iran would love us to pull out, the russians would love us to pull out, and they will have a greater influence and we won't. i hope he rethinks its position.

our guest is cal thomas. author of more than a dozen books. as early as the early 1980's. i remember when he told me about the idea before it was created and i thought it was tremendous. if anyone can do it, you can, and he did. host: color, good morning. caroline, good morning. we will go next to joe. good morning. caller: good morning. it is a pleasure to speak to both of you this morning. i tell you, i am 70 years old. up in the 1950's and 1960's, the days you could leave your door you touched on

morality and where we're headed as a country. i love telling people. it is indeed bipartisan and it goes deeper. we can have a rascal in the white house and it doesn't matter if it was clinton or whomever it might be. of course now, it is donald trump and my favorite thing to respond to people is, steve may not remember this, but after the election, we found our trump was a little rascal, maybe, i said, well, my candidate didn't win and they say come you voted for hillary? for they no, i voted constitution party, a noble man, but see, there is the problem. money and media control politics in the country. me say something about the bipartisan thing and you touched on it good. i tell you right now we have rascals on both sides but when you try to do something to save the children, there is a c were

that everybody hates, as much as republicans are rascals, you can try to employ censorship and and say no, no, anything goes, tv's and movies, it doesn't matter. it is a decline of morality. our children are exposed to things we can't get a handle on 24 hours a day. it is just impossible. host: thank you for the call. guest: he touched a lot of issues and i could talk for the next 30 minutes about them. forprimary responsibility it is the parents. a two-parent home, taking care of your own kids, discipline, loving discipline, sending them to the kinds of schools that will give them a good education, i'm a big proponent of school choice. i think it is a form of racism, apple, to force particularly poor and minority students to stay in failing public schools. the left is against school choice although they are for abortion, which seems to me inconsistent, because they are

getting money from teachers unions to lock them up in the failed schools. the primary responsibility is to the parents. they are not totally responsible for heather kids turn out but they are responsible for what they put into them in their younger years. not government. host: elaine, michigan, republican line. caller: good morning. i'm a bit nervous. i was listening to the beginning with all the people calling in with what they thought would remedy the debt situation. i think if you look back, not one of them felt that the remedy should hurt them. takes all, congress should a cut of pay, which is like spitting in the ocean. but nope, we need to stop spending across-the-board, to include entitlements, and i'm a

social security and medicare recipient but i feel i will have to, there will have to be pain on my part. that's a very mature and i think intelligent approach to things. means testing, i'm not the only one, wealthy people -- i think we need a total reconstruction of our health system. that is what president obama promised to do but rates are going up considerably. husband are her very healthy and rarely go to the doctor except or annual is go. all the children are healthy and they have never been to the doctor for anything major and yet she told me their health insurance rate has jumped to 100 house and dollars per year, and she and her husband and four and five kids. it is untenable. it is as great a threat as the national debt. so again, as i wrote in my

previous book, there are solutions out there. politicians would rather have the issue them a solution. that is the frustrating thing about washington. host: the president is tweeting this morning. guest: what a shock. host: with regard to china. he wrote that the president of china and he will always be friends know matter what happens with our dispute on trade. china will take down trade barriers because it is the right thing to do. taxes will become reciprocal and a deal will be made on intellectual property. great future for both countries. week on wallwing a street, a lot of concerns on market down 100 points on friday because of concerns of a trade war. guest: liver hired the desk the retirees were happy when the market was going up, up, up. i think a lot of electoral votes in florida, it is a swing state

in presidential elections, so i think political people are nervous about this. if all of this comes true, he will be a prophet like old testament guys. . thought -- i hope he is right clearly the chinese have been roofing off not only intellectual property but a lot of other things here they have been dumping rings, undermining farmers and many other on the country. i think they need to be called on it. if he is right about this, i think he will see the stock market again. host: mitch mcconnell going after agricultural products. good are theye know what they're doing. they are not stupid. the chinese have an around a lot longer than us. host: democrats line. caller: good morning.

mr. thomas, i have a question for you. when will the government pay back social security they keep siphoning? and i always hear that they will pass back and it has never happened. something in washington keeping money in it for you when you retire. it is a tax. they rely on the rest of the generation. this unless on like we continue to raise taxes. i think people are living longer now, the retirement age should be increased. people want to work, that is fine and many are at the retirement age. it is not about paying back. it always has been. joe, new york, independent

line. caller: sorry i didn't mention my name. guest: i will put you on a mailing list. caller: i want to a dress the core issue that i believe is a core issue. i believe the lobbyists have corrupted the system. and the ethical infrastructure of the country has been destroyed because of it. can you address that issue specifically? guest: i do not think it is lobbyists alone are the problem is career politicians. founders never expected politics to be a career. most of them were farmers and business persons, lawyers, and whatever. they would come to washington and serve a limited amount of time. a term limit themselves and go home to real jobs. my favorite story, and it is a true story, senator george senator, liberal democrat from south dakota, when he lost in a reagan landslide in 1980, he decided to do something different so he went up to

connecticut and bought an inn. it went bankrupt and the wall street journal wanted to know what happened. had known howif i difficult it was to run a business, i might have voted differently in the senate. well there you are. west chester, ohio, republican line. caller: good morning. it is a pleasure to speak with you after following you all these years. i am interested in solutions as you are in them. when you look at our health care system, we have 18% of gdp tied up in health care. i think we have to take one issue at a time and look for solutions and take the involvement of the american people. imagine if we just take disease, 161ed billion dollars every year according to the american lung association, and said this is

society passes issue, not republican or democrat or government, and then we divided that among all of us and say each lot of us has to contribute $50 or month. we take it out of insurance premiums and out of country responsibilities. plan 33% for benefit costs. imagine reducing that cost and what that does for us in decreasing our cost and gets us jobs. i think i might nominate you for secretary of health and human services. well thought out. you make the point i was making. there are solutions out there, that virtually no problem that comes through the town is unsolvable. you look for some debates that are not debates at all on cable tv. this.ests, both sides do this is bipartisan. says you are ruining

america and the other says you are or you are a commie, you are an atheist. likeamericans don't talk that to each other. we do not have real debate anymore p or even presidential debates are not debates. points and all the rest. elected because he spoke the language of people who are frustrated and he wants something different and they are not getting it here that is because people are not sending people to congress who will solve problems. host: sometimes the debate gets personal p or i want to ask you about laura ingraham. a tweet she later apologized for, said david hogg, parkland student, has been front and center on the never again stop a 4.1 gpa,ement,

totally predictable given the acceptance rate, and this editorial from the wilson times, companies are voting with .allets, publicly taking sides nothing in the first amendment compels sponsors to subsidize speech with which they disagree. she has not been arrested or sued for her tweet. her expression hasn't been stifled. whoever said freedom of speech means freedom from consequences? i don't like this whether it is done by the right or the left. last week, insulted vice president pence's faith. the wrong is approach. i think we ought to have civil discussion. to have aavid hogg civil discussion about this. i think you limit free speech and i want to know what people

really think. if you are racist, let's find out and have a conversation about race. of harvard university, some pbs, hel programs on did dna tests. there are no purebred people. we are all mongrels and mixed up in the great jean paul of life. hite a racist is to really yourself. these are the discussions we are to be having p or it we are americans. if we do not make the experiment work, no one else will. reagan used to say we are only one generation away from losing it all. our real enemies are not each other but isis and taliban. let's make them the enemies, not each other. our next call is from wisconsin, wait, independent line, good morning. caller: the left is for abortion. that is patently false. what the left is for is for a choice.

the left is not for abortion or no one is for abortion. that is all bullcrap. i hope you do not have anything from me -- in your house from china because china has forced abortion. guest: that is a long going debate since roe v. wade night 1973 in some ways before that. if you do not want to stop something that in my judgment is evil and has consequences not only for the young -- for the unborn but the elderly and the sick, we are now seeing increased efforts to have assisted suicide laws and more and more states, if you don't regard human life as valuable because it is not just a biological accident or a product of evolution, then where do you stop? where do you put the restraints on human life. i think it is a great tragedy. guest: joining us from st. louis, good morning. to talk about

spending but he just touched on something about like iran and the muslims and things or something that we need to be concerned about. you have got to think since we were established in 1776, our country has been at war for over 200 years for the resources. killing their fathers and sons and daughters and things like that here we give out this restitution and things were destroying their country. wouldn't you think that just -- the chickens would come home and ?oost so many military bases, everywhere you go, military bases. host: it goes back to the earlier point about military spending. put thehe pentagon defense budget aside, i do not think any budget ought to be put aside. a lot of waste is in the military. during that shimmy carter administration, we need to to newly update our did and skip

abilities. certainly russia and china are. especially china. war business, and a , there is evil in the world and it has to be opposed. if not, it will take over. host: a quick question? caller: i agree about the budget and the deficit and we need to know about each thing, but one thing i do not hear anybody say, how much money are we actually putting in social security? social security is not adding to the deficit. guest: when you are borrowing to pay for something, it is obviously adding to the deficit. if you charge on your credit card more than you can afford, then you are in debt. the interest rate on many credit

cards is 18 to 21% depending on the card. you will be in greater debt if you only pay the minimal amount without even charging more, which many people do. back to living within one's means, the puritan ethic, not letting your reach exceed your grasp, not letting your eyes get bigger than your stomach, all these other cliches. if you have a chevrolet budget, you will not be able to buy a ferrari. if you try, you will be in huge debt. this is a reason the housing market collapsed. the government wanted more and more people under both administrations, republicans and democrats, to be homeowners. that is a good goal. up --orced banks to give they couldn't pay the increased payment anymore and that helps collapsed the economy in the 1990's. basic rules of life,

economic and moral rules, the rules of gravity, if you jump off a building, you will splat on the sidewalk. basicthere is nothing new undee sun but we do not learn from it. cal thomas. thank you for stopping by. please come back again. we continue our series looking . thank you for stopping by. please come backto 1960 8, 50 ye look at all the events that happened in the historic year, including impact on liberal politics. kathleen, the daughter of late senator robert f kennedy will be joining in florida and author and columnist michael cohen, looking at 1968, election and politics of evasion. first, we go back to march's -- march 16. street, thepitol new york senator robert kennedy announced his intention to seek

the democratic nomination. listened traveled and to the young people in our nation and felt their anger about the will -- the war they are sent to fight and about the world. that they are about to inherit. private talks and in public, i have tried in vain to alter the and our spiritam and man power. it raises the risk of war and further destroys the country and the people. cannot stand aside from the contest that will decide our nation's's future and our filter our children's future. mccarthy has proven how deep are

the present divisions within the party and the country. clear,hat was publicly my presence in the race would have been seen as a clash of personality rather than issue. now that the fight has in one, over policies i've long been challenging, i must enter the race. the fight is just beginning. . believe i can win i have previously communicated this decision to president johnson. late last night, my brother, senator edward kennedy, traveled to wisconsin to communicate my decision to senator mccarthy. and make clear through my mccarthy, senator that my candidacy would not be in opposition to his that in harmony. my aim is to support and expand his campaign in the spirit of his november 30 statement. taking one month at a time, it

is important now that he achieves the largest possible majority next month. wisconsin, pennsylvania, and states. i urge all of my friends to give their votes. both will be encouraging to delegate the national convincing -- convention. wisconsin, pennsylvania, and massachusetts. i strongly support his effort in thosean open democratic conventn chicago, a new course for our party and country. no personal animosity or disrespect toward president johnson. he served president kennedy with the utmost loyalty and it was extreme -- and was extremely kind to me and members of my difficult months in

1963. health and education in many other areas. forve the deepest sympathy the burden that he carries today. the issue is not personal. found influence over where we are heading and what we want to accomplish. i do not lightly dismiss the dangers and difficulties of challenging an incumbent president. but these are not ordinary times and this is not an order from -- ordinary election. the stake is not simply the leadership of our hearty and even the country, it is our right to the more leadership of the planet. i thank you.

host: from march of 1968a to motionless year, and the announcement senator kennedy would seek the nomination. joining us is the oldest daughter of senator kennedy, kathleen, thank you for being here. joining us here in the studios in washington is michael cohen, author of the book -- american maelstrom, the 1968 election and the politics of division. keyident clinton johnson, a what is yourure, understanding of the year began? in a toughson was political position in 1968. the war in vietnam was at a stalemate and growing opposition in his party and capitol hill and in general. he was in a tough decision and facing a primer -- a challenge,

facing the renomination. the end of his presidency in some respects politically. it shows the administration lying about the war. things really fall apart as far as u.s. policy. within his own party particularly because the opposition was growing among democrats. he took over the u.s. embassy briefly, the majority of capital's were attacked. the city was taken over by the north vietnamese. you had massive casualties mostly by the north vietnamese. it was a failed military offensive. politically, it had a huge

the political system. it needed to be wide -- brought down a little. is an humphrey interesting situation. a classic liberal and someone who is a big supporter of religious rights legislation and had strong support among liberal groups and the democratic party, particularly unions, and he became a vice president and supportive of johnson including on vietnam. in some ways, he was a bigger supporter of the war than johnson is in a respect. this created a lot of problems in his party were liberals saw him turn his back on the party and his liberal beliefs. among some groups, he was popular especially among labor. , he was seencrats as negatively as johnson. about yournt to talk

father but i first want to ask you about eugene mccarthy. asked in november to challenge is sitting president. what was your father thinking earlier in the process as eugene mccarthy was ramping up elsewhere? as you know, a number of people were asking my father to run for president and my father ambivalentus -- about it because he thought it would be seen only as a fight , and helyndon johnson didn't want to have this fight be about him and lyndon johnson. he wanted to raise larger issues. when he spoke out against the vietnam war in 1967, very few people listened to actually what he said. what they publicized was personal animosity. of, is an important aspect

father was trying to make a decision whether to run or not. mccarthy did not have personal animus and that history with lyndon johnson. when gina mccarthy was running, he was running more clearly against the war. when did your dad decide to seek the nomination? what was the tipping point? the tet offensive was the tipping point. he said early in january that he would not run and after the offensive, i think he changed his mind because he saw that there really was no way that the war was going to be one -- won the way it was an lyndon johnson could not acknowledge what was going on and lyndon johnson himself understood it could not be won. lives were being lost in a fruitless, horrible effort.

he decided he wanted to run and he made the decision before the new hampshire primary. he made the decision before that time. magazine in the 1960's and 1970's, you and your father on the cover. you were 16 years old at the time. inside --oing on go ahead. guest: i just remember it was funny. i hadn't seen that picture for a long time. it is very sweet of you to put it up. thank you. because i'mion it curious what is going on with the family, with you, your mother, and other family members considering whether or not robert kennedy should seek the nomination. well, you well, you know, i

obviously thought our father was true if it. -- terrific. ofmother was a big supporter him running because she knew in his heart and in his gut, he wanted to run for president. she knew he solid was going on in the country not only in vietnam, but in the delta, the riots in the cities, and she thought that was his destiny in a sense. my father, understanding politics and clearly, was worried about the issue of lyndon johnson on the one hand and a second issue, he understands that when you want to run for president, you also try and make sure you can win then you have thought it through and you have got a whole campaign in place, which is what he established in 1964 his brother.

he had not done that in 1968. passionate anda crusading kind of campaign, which was, part of them like that but part of them held that old political knowledge about how do you put together a campaign? it is an interesting balance. beyond the leaders of the democratic party in 1968, what was going on within the party among the rank and file? guest: an interesting figure had decided that lyndon johnson should not be the nominee and that he needed to be defeated. this was mainly in opposition to the war in vietnam. he went around it basically tried to find a democrat to challenge johnson for the nomination.

at least a half-dozen figures, and he approached mccarthy in the fall of 1967 and mccarthy was interested. he had been traveling around the opposition to his war known he was a material figure and aloof, not popular on capitol hill. he had been the number two choice for johnson to be the vp nominee in 1964 and lost to hubert humphrey. when mccarthy challenges johnson in part because of lowenstein's lobby of him and his activism, trying to get involved. when mccarthy gets involved, the group of antiwar activists rallies around the campaign and basically become his kind of army, his political army. it is one reason he did so well in vietnam and did so well in wisconsin and oregon that came afterwards.

reason he wanted to run was to create an outlet, where antiwar activists are in the party and in some ways, it is the most successful thing he did in six -- in 1968, what gave him a way to be known. in the end, activists were the ones that basically toppled johnson and cost him -- without mccarthy's's performance in new hampshire, i do nothing can do gets in the race. and without them, i don't think johnson drops out. we're looking at the simulcast on c-span3's american history tv, a year in crisis and turmoil. a lot happening that year. our guest is kathleen kennedy tauzin --kathleen kennedy townsend and michael cohen. give us a better sense of mccarthy and why he entered the race and what his personality and clinical standing were like and why he faltered as the primary process continued.

guest: mccarthy is an interesting figure. withsky, and intellectual very liberal policies. a very conservative demeanor to him. he believed in the political process. thatn because he believes -- believed that, he was fearful that democrats were opposed to the war and were going to create a third or fourth party. he said this in an announcement speech. he wanted to give them an outlet within the party and the process to again make voices known. traditional view of politics. he is best very radical policies as time went on during the campaign. who waslso someone lazy, did not really like campaigning, he would only say he is a more -- not a morning

person. he would have a hard time talking to people sometimes. he could be very effective on tv and an effective politician. he didn't like the details of campaigning. mccarthy was someone who would have just given speeches the people,ime and given here is my position, but as time went on, that strategy did not work well politically and it toame more difficult for him be effective and he became overwhelmed by the activism and the energy around the candidacy. what was the relationship like between your father and senator mccarthy? they were both catholics but different kinds. in the sense, as michael pointed was gina mccarthy

intellectual and much more reserved. i would not say -- my father i would say was kind of shy, but he liked people and was empathetic. the issue of vietnam but also spoke very much to , to the poor and had, ianchised, so he would say, a larger heart that embrace a lot of people and touched them and was touched by them. they had very different personalities and different passions. you and your family with your father as he formally his candidacy and what the remember about that day? it was very exciting to

have my father announces presidency. we were thrilled he was going to run. in number few blast, weren't you afraid? one thing we learned in our family is not to be afraid. so we were very happy about the fact that he would run and do what was in his heart, and that he really had something to offer the country. it was a lot of chaos but we are accustomed to growing up in chaos with 10 kids at that point in my mother was pregnant with the 11th. it was a great day and after march 16, he went and marched in the st. patrick's played deaf parade. there was an irish sense of, let's get out there and let's fight, let's make our views known. reacting to your father's candidacy, senator mccarthy, let's watch.

>> senator mccarthy, what is your reaction as a politician? can you take him i guess is the best question. senator mccarthy: i have not been moved to a draw at this point. i can win in wisconsin and i could not go on and win the other primaries that i'm committed. cause you in anyway way to reassess your overall position? >> i do not think there is any reassessment. i have been committed since i first announced, and i have made no changes in my plans either because of new hampshire or in consequence of the announcement of kennedy. i keep hearing a rumbling, indications of a deal at some point in the future. are you prepared to deal with bobby kennedy? >> i am not really prepared to deal with anybody as far as my candidacy is concerned, i've committed myself to a group of and rathere

idealistic adults in american society. i said i would be their candidate and i intend to run as i committed myself to run as a situation develops of course, where i can't win, i will release my delegates. if i did have to trade with them, i will run as hard as i .an if i find i cannot win, i will say to my delegates, make the best judgment you can make. the interview was conducted after the announcement of senator robert f kennedy. your reaction? i think eugene mccarthy has had a tough issue with them for a long time. he has been tough on jack kennedy actually, in part because i think he thought he should be the first catholic

president, not john f. kennedy. the way really got over bobby kennedy got in the race in 1968. basically the morning after, he said he is reassessing and i think the feeling among a lot of hearthy's supporters is that asked stolen the gift under the christmas tree by stealing his thunder right after this performance in new hampshire. the animosity grew as the campaign went along. kennedy was not a huge fan of mccarthy either. a lot of people were not he was a tough percent to like. he was anteresting is very emotional candidate and got his audiences revved up and excited that he did not think that was appropriate for politics. he used to say kennedy held outreach groups to american groups, african-americans, hispanics.

he thought that is not the way politician should work. it was like they were flavors of baskin and robin. not have been successful in politics today at all. it created a lot of animosity thaten them and a sense mccarthy came to dislike kennedy and in a way, that defined a lot of his campaign as it went along. he would -- he became a lot more critical as it one along. let's get your response. guest: i think he said it well. they had very different personality types. if, as we set a number of times, the intellectual, he thought that he had done something very brave and courageous in running against johnson and he resented someone else getting in the race. resentnted my father and

i family for a while because they did not like they're kind of campaigning. so, you know, that is politics. mccarthy, as you can see, after he didn't win the nomination, it was not as though he went back and said, what can --earn to help more about more americans participate and more americans, you know, african-americans and indians, you know, that was not his way of acting and that is not where his heart away. host: kathleen kennedy townsend is joining us from west palm beach florida. before we get to calls, a personal note on why you are there this weekend? we were here this weekend 90thse there my mother's birthday, april 11 in a few days. we had a great celebration last night, vice president biden came and speaker nancy pelosi,

lawyer, and a lot of others and sisters and cousins, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. it was a fabulous evening to celebrate my mother's is extraordinary life. i would say, my mother's believe in my father and her ability to say to my father, you can do whatthings, you can your faith calls you. my mother believed in my father, which was a very important part of his success. chicago,ert in democrat line. caller: good morning, c-span, and can morning to you, mrs. johnson. are you, ma'am? i was just wondering if your father had in mind anyone that to be his running mate during that campaign? i don't think of that point, as you can see for

instance, when his brother was running for president, they did not really make up their mind until the last 24 hours that lyndon johnson be john kennedy passes running mate. so the running mate question often depends on what is going on in the rest of the country and who will be most helpful to win the general election. my father, as you know, had a very tough night. , so he was really focused on winning primaries. then, he had a couple of months to figure out who would his running mate. thank you for asking though. frank from new york. good morning. 1968, i formed a democratic group and it was a and veryg operation

exciting. we managed to win two of the three delegates. that was one. i think it might have been election, weer the know about his tragic end. i met eugene mccarthy once. it is in line to ship -- as in lined -- in line to shake his hand, he was talking to someone and did not seem to knowledge my existence. i thought this guide may or may not have fire in the belly but he needs to be more attentive to the here and now and the people working very hard. it was very difficult campaign

because we had very little money. in regularpport democrats. when i approach democrats in a , and suggest lbj, one of the prominent lawyers stood up and said who are you? i had been in town and came here in 1965. thank you for the call. guest: that is a great story. book, iesearched my went through my papers and found oral histories of people who work on the campaign, people would sort of say, staffers involved in the campaign, that they did not like mccarthy on a tosonal level but found him

the distance and not really engaged in the campaign and yet, .hey all revered him it is interesting about mccarthy. though he was again a very he waslt person, courageous and had he not done that, i do not think johnson thed have dropped out of race. he would not be the actor work -- antiwar people of the party, go to the convention and debate about the war in vietnam. in that sense, you know, mccarthy inspired a great deal of loyalty among supporters. i found it interesting that among -- among his supporters, he had a great deal -- toward kennedy because he felt he still mccarthy's thunder. mccarthy had been courageous enough to challenge. he did it when no one else would. i think he created a lot of, you know, loyalty, but also people

involved in the political process after the 1968 campaign. not, theore often than one who stuck around, mcgovern think on a972, i lower level. host: did your father ever talk to you about his relationship with president johnson or talk about what that relationship was like? we did not have a personal one-on-one talk about johnson but it invaded our house. -- a veryarly very tough relationship. objected to hisfather father brother's choice of johnson for vice president. they did not really mesh at all. they did not get along very well.

that was clear. they came from different parts of the world and different backgrounds, and they did not ,et along, but i have said looking back 50 years, what they to share was a commitment dealing with the issues of andrty in this country, johnson also signed the 1964 civil rights act and the immigration act, which my father very much agreed with. on some issues, they very much agreed, even though they did not always get along good the real break came over the war. host: we want to move on and talk about the primary campaign that began in new hampshire, and it in california with a victory, 46% for senator robert f kennedy, 42% for eugene mccarthy.

campaign. the rfk [video clip] >> robert kennedy and some people who are not registered this year. in 10 years, these americans will inherit problems we don't solve today. >> in the next several decades, people are going to have to start wearing gas masks in your city because the air is becoming so polluted. breatheds of refuse you every year. that will spread to the rural areas unless we stop it. there are laws we can pass about dumping and throwing refuse in lakes and streams and the air. otherwise, we will all have to live underground. industry won't do anything. i think you are going to make a difference in this country.

>> nebraska can make the difference. host: from the 1968 campaign by robert f kennedy, we are looking back 50 years later, america in turmoil. michael cohen is joining us from the boston globe, and kathleen kennedy townsend is also here. caller: i am one of those guys that ended up spending the year in the jungles in vietnam, including a place called a105, which we are not sure which side rder it wasian boa on. i am firmly against the democrats because of the vietnam war and the mess it turned out to be. course thes, and of

rich people could always avoid the draft. nowg one of the old grunts in declining numbers, i just wanted to make my comment. host: thank you. how would you address that comment? guest: i think it is an excellent sentiments. now in declining numbers, i just wanted to make my comment. host:when my father was runningr president, he said how unfair it was that people could go to draft, got out of the and people who could not afford college did not get out of the draft. he said that was unfair. he said that to college students. he was willing to go right to people who are benefiting from the unfair system and say this is unfair, unjust, not the way this country should act. my father was clear that he did not like the fact that so many people who could not afford college went to vietnam, and

those who are well off were able to get out of it. he said it directly. i just want to underscore, because oftentimes politicians tell people what they want to hear, and i think one of the things that was unique about my father is he was able to tell people what they did not want to aboutnd ask them to think their own responsibilities and how they could do better and how difficult it was that it was willing to do that. host: we go to washington state, brian. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. great show. a question for each of your guests. the first question, mr. cohen, you seem that the liberals in politics will be able to make things daylight, very clear how things work when each party is in charge of our country, and then who comes along and has to

fix things. host: thank you, brian. guest: that is more of a contemporary question, i suppose. i guess this goes back to the greg, and iion from want to thank him for his service. one of the ironies about the etnam is that it was the democrats who led the johnson.t, lyndon it created a lot of opposition about the democrats ability to handle foreign policy. the irony of vietnam is lyndon johnson escalated it in part to minimize the political fallout theetting vietnam fall to communists. the sense in the 1950's that

democrats were not tough enough on communism, and so that is one of the reasons they fought in the anon. it basically showed a lot of people that democrats cannot effectively manage foreign policy and the war effort in vietnam. it created a sense that democrats were weak on national security, and that image has been propagated for 50 years. i am not going to say richard nixon fixed the war, although he obviously got the u.s. out of vietnam, but there is a sense that democrats created this problem and it undermined them politically for a long time. i want to share with you a view about the past beginning, who joined us -- cap beginning, who joined as a couple -- pat buchannon, who joined as a

couple weeks ago. unit, whichantiwar may the democrats angry. johnson was seen as an american lackey. the best and the brightest had been broken at the wheel of vietnam. your thoughts. didt: i think vietnam destroy a lot of the knewlishment because they that they were not winning it, and they were still sending people over to vietnam to die in a war that they knew was not going well, and they were dishonest with the american people. it was a disaster. and historians would say, you were not going to if you don't have

the people in the south vietnam, the government, the people did not want to fight. you cannot prop it up from outside. it is so ironic and sad and you think of how many people died, both vietnamese and americans. now we can have the relationships with vietnam. it was really a tragedy. i think michael pointed out that lyndon johnson was afraid that democrats would be criticized for losing a communist state as they lost china. yet, they are the size anyway. at least we could have been criticized and not had 70 people die and a quicker reconstruction -- had so many people die and a quicker reconstruction of vietnam. i just wanted to point out something that is missing from the national conversation. we have a personality who

happens to be running for governor of one of the states, illinois. he happens to be our brother. andnted to pick your brain get your sense of the lack of identity for the democratic party and the lack of engagement for support. guest: well, i think -- first of for my brother did run governor of illinois, and i think he would have been an excellent governor. his opponent spent $60 million of his own money against him. it is very tough when you're $69.ng against across the country, i think the democrats have been revised and reenergized because of what is going on in washington. we are winning elections that we have not one in decades. n in decades.

there is this new sense that we have to get involved and engaged. two years ago, 2000 women ran for office. this year, 34,000 women are running for office. there is this sense that this is our country, and we are going to get involved. the interesting thing about who is running is how many people who have served in iraq, afghanistan are running, and they are running as democrats. i hope this will be the end of that theam era military cannot be democratic because so many democrats are running who have been in the military. host: michael cohen. guest: it is interesting. i tend to agree with what pat buchannon said. in 1968, the divisions in the democratic party were extraordinary. vietnam, a whole

series of issues on civil rights, and you had a wing of the party that were more conservative democrats. some like bobby kennedy, he had a lot of opposition within the party. labor did not like him. southern democrats could not stand him. there were serious fault lines in the party. nothing like that today. you see this debate between the bernie sanders wing of the party. nothing on the scale of what we saw in 1968. the differences that were fundamental. there was a big link of the -- wing of the party, antiwar activists, who viewed lyndon johnson as illegitimate. when the war began, you had antiwar activists who regularly picketed and interrupted hubert

humphrey's speeches because of his support of the war in vietnam. this is nothing like 1968. --divisive as the politics have become today, it holds not a candle to 1968, not just between the two parties, but within the parties. host: we are talking about the politics of division with our guest michael cohen. virginia is where our next calle r is coming from. caller: my name is susan. i am calling with a comment. i wanted to say hi to kathleen. ece. richard mackey's ni guest: thank you. caller: so good to see you, kathleen. my husband was a high school inior in oakland, maryland,

1968. last night, he was showing the so long bobby picture to my daughter elizabeth last night and telling her about the history of that time. i wanted to say hello and tell you that i miss you and am glad to hear that you celebrated your mother's 90th birthday. hope to see you back in this area sometime soon. my brother, andy straight on, sends his love as well. guest: thank you very much. host: the u.s. information agency put together this documentary looking at the 1968 democratic primary. >> now, mccarthy was facing competition from senator robert kennedy. >> the decisions that are made by this convention today.

>> there were other unexpected events. >> with our hope and the world's hope for peace in the balance every day. tell a nationt to that he was not running for the presidency again. notccordingly, i shall the, and i will not accept nomination of my party for another term as your president. ♪ >> thank you. >> vice president humphrey became the last major democratic candidate to enter the race.

humphrey acquired a substantial number of delegates was before before thel -- votes national convention. host: that was from the u.s. information agency. let's talk about the democratic party, the structure in 1968, and what changed after that election. guest: this is one of the most interesting things people never talk about. hubert humphrey never ran a single primary in 1960. he was not in the ballot and did not need to be. the way the nominee was chosen by the party was at the state convention. they were controlled by powerful democratic big city powerbrokers. ultimately, they could not win enough delegates to win the competition. once humphrey enter the race, it was almost redetermined he would be the nominee unless mccarthy

or andy could convince enough delegates to change to them. in that situation where humphrey does not need to go in front of the voters least to this decision in 1968. this voicests won vote on changing the way the democratic nominee was chosen. that has completely changed our politics. the whole primary system we have now, spending years in iowa and new hampshire now, that happened because of this report commissioned, which created the more democratic system, which said the nomination be chosen by the primaries. the primaries should be binding. moderns created this primary system we have. it was something that was not really talked about much in 1968.

it came about in large measure because of the way humphrey was chosen, but also because of mccarthy's campaign. one of the things mccarthy said was you need to have an outlet for people to make their voices heard. we have these five or six primaries that are binding, and most of the delegates are chosen at state conventions. one of the most important elements of the mccarthy campaign was to change the system. we are living in a different political world because of that. james jones who served as the tobacco white house chief of staff -- the de facto white house chief of staff to lyndon johnson. when he announced he was not reelection, hubert temporary reportedly said i have lost 21 kennedy, and i will lose to another.

have you heard that story? guest: no, i have not heard that story. thank you for sharing. host: what about hubert humphrey and his standing in the democratic party and how your father would have campaigned against him? obviously, if hubert humphrey had not participated in he primaries, it was hard to campaign against him. the campaign would have been with the insiders, the democratic insiders, which would be to go to them and say hubert humphrey is tainted by his association with lyndon johnson, and it is only me who has actually won the primaries, who has shown he can win the votes who will win, otherwise hubert humphrey will look illegitimate in the eyes of many democratic voters. that would have been the argument my father would have had to say. obviously, my father knew many of these democratic insiders

because he had met and worked with them in the 1960 campaign as the attorney general and senator. he knew who they were. you can make a pretty strong argument about what needed to be done. it would have been very hard having won as many primaries as he did, you know, he did beat jim mccarthy and all the primaries except for oregon and the california primary. a goodould have been argument that it would look bad for the democratic party to nominate hubert humphrey. host: we want to come back to the california primary shortly, but first let's go to glenn. caller: good morning. ms. kathleenis, kennedy, would you agree that

every time the republicans get chthe white house we have aos, you can call it may have? -- mayhem? andpreciate your uncle jack before their good intentions and good human beings. host: thank you, glenn. guest: thank you. i appreciate it. obviously, i'm a democrat, so i think the democrats in our party who believe government has a role, really make an effort to make government work and work effectively. i think that is a different attitude that some republicans have. -- than some republicans have. i think we all agreed that we are not really talking about present-day politics, but the current president has given me

epitome of forming the head of the government that doesn't really want to work well. this week, we're focusing on the democratic party, the state of liberal politics. next week, we turn to conservative politics and the republican party and the nomination of richard nixon after his defeat in 1960 to john kennedy. it is an honor to speak to a kennedy. i always respected john f. he was a most a conservative in many ways. change, the liberals that robin almost the feminization of war. you may have to

sacrifice your sons, but we have to win. 1968, and they brought in the idea, there is nothing wrong with masculine or feminine, they brought in the idea that because of liberal politics, the first question is what are we going to bring our boys home? that is because of the mothers. there is nothing wrong with that. but we need to win. conservatives say we have to win. there may be sacrifices. that is realistic and the ugly thing of war. it is necessary. i think it is a bad thing of liberal politics. they feminized it. we went. we want our boys to come home. it should not be timelines even before we start. host: thank you. guest: i will just say that a lot of men felt the war in

vietnam was a mistake and his -- andhould come home these boys should come home. i would say one of the reasons vietnam was the disaster he was is because there was no strategy. one of the reasons why vietnam was the disaster it was is because lyndon johnson refused to either accelerate the war effort or withdraw. 1967, the war was clearly stalemate. johnson could not decide which way to go. the war either needed to be over r accelerated. refused to acknowledge that the war was going badly. he refused to seek an alternative strategy, this

middle ground between two much escalation or withdrawal. i reject the argument that this was somehow because liberals thought the boys should come home. liberals but the worship and because it was not being -- war should and because it was not -- end because it was not being won. a sittinglenging president in his own party. president johnson narrowly defeats eugene mccarthy. he did not lose the primary. it was basically his margin of victory. won by four points. mccarthy's portion of the vote was extraordinary and shows the dissatisfaction with the party.

robert kennedy said i did not want to divide the party, but clearly the party is divided. one thing worth noting about this and have to vote is 20% of new hampshire voters voted for george wallace. it was not an antiwar vote in the sense that we think of today. they voted for mccarthy because they thought johnson should escalate the war to get it over with. they wanted to find a way to bring the troops home. one thing about mccarthy, he did not run on this antiwar platform. a protest vote, send a message to washington about how you feel about the worker. he was incredibly successful because he brought in not only people who opposed the war but more moderate conservative voters who may be supported the war effort but not the same goals of the antiwar activists.

it was a pretty big coalition in new hampshire. host: four days after the new hampshire primary, robert f kennedy enters the race. president johnson announcing on march 31 that he will not seek reelection. hubert humphrey enters the race, but not until april 27. senator kennedy winning the california primary on the evening of june 4. shock after midnight, dying the following day. richard nixon elected president on november 5. askew to john, ohio. caller: hello. how are you? sympathies fory your loss of a wonderful person, robert kennedy. i'm sorry? guest: i said thank you. caller: you are welcome.

years i started humphrey. -- studied humphrey. i read material that said they broke on the vietnam war and johnson stopped including briefings. the i felt when i was witnessing this primary, the first i would vote in, robert kennedy brought love and unity. there was a positive this that transcended politics. i was listening to eugene mccarthy, and i thought he was undermining the military, contributing to an atmosphere where i thought some of my friends were horribly abused and abandoned. they are among the bravest and

finest people in the world who fought. i felt bob kennedy brought love and respect across the board. from my life at age 23, i cannot in the same breath talk about your wonderful bob kennedy and eugene mccarthy. those are my comments. host: thank you for the call. guest: i would say in defense of eugene mccarthy, i don't think he was ever someone who was critical of the military. his criticism of the war was of the political leadership of the country, particularly president johnson and the strategy that was being utilized in vietnam. i think there were people within the mccarthy can't that may have -- camp that may have been more critical of the military. host: who did your father will foron for advice -- rely on

advice as he began his campaign in california? you know, he had two different terrific aides who he trusted. if you read my father's speeches and talked to him, he really believed in the young. he felt the young people with whom he spoke on college campuses had a lot to say. that is often who he listened to. there were all these old kennedy hands you will hear about, but what he was really moved by is go see cesar chavez, go to the inner-city, go to the delta of marion. part, listening, in large to his heart and what was going

on with young people. oregone loses the primary comes back to win the california primary. how did he do that? what changed? host: -- guest: the easy answer is the demographics changed. theon almost 98% of hispanic vote, for instance, in california. precincts 100% of the african-american vote. he was winning working-class people. that group,ing recor whereas hispanics and african-americans were not a large part of the population in oregon. that was one of the big differences between the states. mccarthy, my father

was a tireless campaigner. he worked 15 hour days all over the state, listening to people, engaged with people, hearing people. that thrust, that energy and ability and determination to win was compelling, but it was also felpful that his message o everybody has a role to play and should have dignity had a role to play. guest: i completely agree. int is why he was successful california and indiana. 80% to 90% of the african-american vote and only won 30% of the white vote. that was because of his tha

identification with black and hispanic voters. white voters tended to back away from him. host: as your father famously said, now it is on to chicago and the democratic convention, which we will talk about in just a moment. walk us through the evening of your father's assassination, what you remember and the days that followed. guest: i am not going to go through that kind of tragedy. that is not what i would want to do. i think we you saw in the days enormousowed is the outpouring of affection for my father, the train that went from new york to washington, which was supposed to be normally two hours, was seven or eight hours because they were so many people on the tracks that came out. as you know, train tracks go

through working-class areas of the country, the states. both white and black came out, saluting with hands over their hearts because they saw that their champion was fallen. what my father was able to do was to reach out to people who afterwards did not get along so well. right, in california, whites were concerned with my father's affection for african-americans and hispanics. there were many that believed in my father. they had seen him take on tough issues in his career. they really felt they had lost something. add toi just want to

that. the train ride from new york to washington is really extraordinary. thousands of people came out to say goodbye to kennedy. of theirombination love for him, and a sense that happened twoation months after the assassination of martin luther king and the riots that happen. there was a sense the country was coming apart at the seams. how much more of this violence could the country take? it, itr the politics of really destroyed hubert humphrey's chance of winning the presidency. butcompletely destroyed, people came to see the country as falling apart and wanting a change and believed them across could not fix the problem. he said something at the time

that the assassination basically derailed his candidacy. a lot of that is true. if you look at the polling, at that point humphrey was leaving next in. after the assassination of kennedy, those numbers shifted. it was a very seminal moment, obviously a tragic moment. that goes without saying. it really did turn people's view, how much more could this country take? ee two major assassinations in two months, political assassinations, it causes people to question what is happening in the country. host: the what if question. have your father lived, would he have gotten to the nomination in 1968? guest: it is always hard to speculation. i think he would have because he

won the california primary, every primary he entered except for oregon. he had good relations with the insiders. i think he could have made a very good argument that he was the candidate that could bring and pull people together. i believe he could have one. nominated that had won all of these primaries, it would have really hurt humphrey because he would not look like he was the candidate of the people. i think humphrey would have understood that as well. .hat is what i believe it is easy to say because who knows what would have actually happened? i think my father understood that after the california primary, he had to get along better with eugene mccarthy. they had to make a deal in some way. the question was whether eugene

mccarthy would be willing to do heardecause, as you earlier, he was bitter with my father. it might have been possible to say that for the good of the country we have to work together. guest: i will say this. this is not a criticism. this is a positive. a lot ofnedy ticked people off within the democratic party. labor did not like it. southern democrats, not a fan. lyndon johnson did not like him at all. i think it would have been hard for him to win the nomination in large part because of johnson. johnson would have done whatever --could to win the to prevent him from winning the nomination. because of kennedy, it would have given humphrey more leeway to distance himself from the white house. on tactical level, this is why he lost. he cannot distance himself from

johnson, which meant he could not bring that liberals in his own party. only in late september after he distance himself from johnson, did liberals come back. i think it would have been enough to have the threat of kennedy to have johnson support humphrey doing whatever he needed to do. after kennedy was killed, that was no longer an issue. nail tofought tooth and humphrey from distancing himself in any way. let him dold not that. thatrey went along with and ended up in the convention endorsing at the dnc johnson's position on the war

after his entire campaign, all of these voters saying they want to change in the war, humphrey endorsed johnson's position. i think if he had done something different, he probably would have won the election. host: 1968, america in turmoil. greg in pennsylvania. caller: yes. thank you. i was a nine-year-old on the tracks in baltimore. am breakingell, i up just thinking about it. , and i hope this is not too far off track, what was the trajectory of the democratic party after 1960 that 1968them incapable -- that made them incapable of putting together a reasonable

challenge to richard nixon by 1972? how would say the problem is the party was hopelessly divided, not just on the war but between the establishment and activist wing. you had the situation of george mcgovern being the nominee in 1972. several unions refused to endorse him. moderate democrats did not endorse his candidacy. strongn was a very antiwar candidate, and a lot of democrats did not support that position. you had this huge divide between seven democrats in northern democrats. on civil rights, mcgovern was liberal than southern democrats. if humphrey wins in 1968, those

divisions are not as severe. i think humphrey was better positioned to navigate both sides of the party that someone like george mcgovern. from west palms beach, florida, kathleen kennedy townsend. our guest michael:. -- michael cohen. caller: i was interested, in what way were your father's views similar to his brother john toward richard nixon, and it always with a different? guest: that is a good question. when richard nixon and my uncle john kennedy work in the senate together, they got along. republican andas democrat. there is not the same animosity that we had between parties in the 1950's as we do now.

that is in large part because they both fought in world war ii. there was a respect for people who work in the trenches together, who put their lives on the line. you may disagree on policy, but when you shared was the threat of death. that always created a kind of bond. my father ran the campaign against nixon. i don't think they respected him during the campaign as much, clearly. when you run against someone, it can be rather talk and difficult -- tough and difficult. president kennedy changed his relation toward the exit during nexen during -- tow during the 1960

campaign. caller: the reason i called was came out with a collection of speeches by your father. i always found the scots bluff be important. he thought it should be a collaborative effort by the president to keep the connection with the founding fathers. i wondered that is what we need today. there is a little disconnect, not quite as much as 1968. is there anyone in any party for my be able to believe that as well? who might be a book to believe that as well? you for reading my father's speeches.

i think they speak to us today. we did not discuss what he said and did after the mlk assassination. i think that is an important point, which is to go into indianapolis in the inner city and say to people there that mlk had died, which they did not know and talked about how his own brother had been killed by a white man, which is to say we have all suffered. during the speech, he said we all have to have love and compassion for those who suffer whether they be white or black. indianapolis was one of the few cities in the country that did not break out into rice because there was a politician who could reach out to people's pain and say i understand where you're coming from, and let's work

together. one, ifsee, number someone is able to do that and has the courage to do that, where he was told by the chief of police and the mayor not to go into the inner city, and he did it anyway, it makes a difference. there are actions one can take that lifts the spirit of. -- up. who can do it today? i think we have a whole slew of candidates on the democratic side. it will be interesting to see what they say and will do. we will learn more over the next 24 months over who does it best. host: we have a question we would like you to answer. we will have it up on c-span.org for the whole week. the question is this, which party has changed the most since

1968? follow us on twitter and cast your vote. let's turn to chicago in the convention. lateonvention was in august to coincide with the president's birthday. democrats only two months to prepare for the election. how significant were those antiwar protests? guest: hugely significant. it created this aura around the party of dysfunction. it was hard not to conclude that the democrats were just incredibly fractured. it raised reasonable questions of whether the democrats could run a country? they cannot even run a convention. the protests in chicago did not of thent the core

anti-war left. many of mccarthy's supporters stayed home due to fears for violence. others had a and much more nihilistic view of politics. i think they wanted violence. they wanted to see the police overreact, which they did. in a sense they were successful. , but the forgotten chicago convened a committee that concluded that it was a police right. the police reacted in a way that violentl and pretty towards the protesters. those images and pictures really did a lot of damage to the

party. it made it very hard for humphrey to run his campaign for president. he initial the high 20's and low 30's, double digits behind richard he thought we were a torn apart family. my mother had 11 children without a father. there was a lot of feeling that healingo on within -- that had to go on within our own family. host: tom in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. what sticks in my mind the most about robert kennedy and john kennedy is that they were the last leaders, political leaders, that truly represented the broad middle class in america. what has happened since then is we have wound up with the republicans representing the top 10%, the democrats representing the liberal, far left, radical

liberal left. the 80% of us in the middle have no representation in national politics and very often in state politics. do you foresee anybody coming thatrd in the near future has the potential to truly represent america's middle 80%? host: thank you. guest: i would respectfully disagree. i think president clinton did a very good job in lifting up the middle class. i think he had the best economic performance by middle-class and actually for working people in the 1990's through the economic policies. that was a very productive time. i think that president obama worked very hard to develop a

strong middle class, and obviously with the health care bill, which was not very popular, but it helps people to know they have health care even if they lose a job. the question is, and i think they're going to be a lot of democratic candidates, as i said earlier, who will reach out to different aspects of the democratic party, and it will be able to decide who is going to do the best job of appealing to , not just a fraction of the party. host: the question, which party has changed the most since 1968? let's go back to april, 1968. vice president hubert humphrey accepting the nomination. >[video clip]

>> take heart, my fellow americans, this is not the first time that our nation has faced a challenge to its light and purpose. each time we had to face the challenges, we have emerged with new greatness and new strength. we must make this moment of it a momentust make of creation. [applause] as it has been said, in the peoplef times a great must do the best of things, and let us do it. [applause] we stand at such a moment now in the affairs of this nation

because, my fellow americans, something new, something different has happened. there is an end of an era, and there is the beginning of a new day. [applause] and it is the special genius of the democratic party that it welcomes change, not as an enemy, but as an ally. not as a force to be suppressed, but as an instrument of progress to be encouraged. host: hubert humphrey, the democratic nominee. , het: one of the ironies mentioned kennedy and the middle humphrey did the

best among urban middle-class voters. much better than kennedy. the humphrey speech is interesting. the presidency, and he did so in part because labor rally around him. he had long had support of unions. they rallied strongly behind him and against charge wallace. -- george wallace. they saw someone very antithetical to the interests of labor. in a sense, that was maybe the best one i can think of of labor almost bringing the democratic nominee over the finish line. from that point on, democrats have a very fractured relationship with the labor movement. a big part of the reason was

race. this is something we have talked about. the racial issues that emerged caused a lot60's of issues for the democrats. lou, new's go to york.. caller: thank you. thank you for being on this show this morning. we are all very grateful for your father's dedication to america. he was such a good man. caller: -- guest: thank you. caller: i was 12 years old, and we were in social studies following the primaries with my teacher, mr. getz. i woke up the next morning and asked my parents about the primary, who had one, and they told me about your father. we are all still very upset.

we miss your father very much. i want to tell you that we all need to come together as a country to face our problems. we cannot be divided. it is so important for all of the churches, all of the faiths to come together to find common ground. caller: thank you for the call. your reaction? guest: i think that is true. part of the reason is for both to respecte aisle each other and understand that even if we disagree on policies, both sides love america. each person has a sense of dignity within themselves. i think when my father talked about how we need love and compassion towards those in our country, it was really a wonderful thing to say because what he was able to understand

is that even if he disagrees with somebody, he can respect where they came from and the dignity of it. said we are all on this earth for a short time. hope that our children will do better and an opportunity. that is what we share. where weure out a way cannot demonize people and work with them. unfortunately, as you know, that is not how people raise money. that is not how people get viewership on cable tv. i thank you for your comments. host: let's look at the in 1968. vote totals governor george wallace obtaining 46. 301 for nixon.

191 for humphrey. why did richard nixon when? -- win? guest: that is a good question. i think it was a dissatisfaction among americans. election for a return to normalcy. it is hard to understand now, but just how dysfunctional and divided the country was. the sense that the country was coming apart at the seams. you had the riots after the king assassination, the violence in chicago. nat was a big factor for ixon. was hubertt factor humphrey's inability to distance himself from johnson. i have the numbers in my book, in aens of thousands

couple of states, and humphrey would win. a couple more weeks, and he would have pulled the election out. it was that close. remember, richard nixon started with about 40% of the vote, and he did not bring more people behind him. he was not a popular figure. for my research in the book, the one thing that was consistent about every political figure i looked at, none of them like richard nixon. they did not trust him. they did not like him. they do not respect him. that was a view held by a lot of americans. it speaks to how weak of a candidate he was. humphrey, andated there was also the wallace fa ctor. that certainly hurt nixon's

totals. host: we will focus on the publican party next week. kathleen kennedy townsend, what legacy from 1960 84 liberal causes and the democratic party? guest: i hope the top legacy is we should participate and get least ties to the past and greatest stake in the future. young made the enormous difference in 1968. think that the young can make a lot of difference today. mr. cohen: i tend to agree with that. the lessons of 1968 you saw participation by not just but all kinds and .anted to see political change importantat led to an political shift in the country. one of the take-aways for

1968 is the engagement can make a difference i think that you can go to of lyndon niversary johnson dropping out of the campaign and a lot because of activist liberals who opposed him. i think kathleen is right.wnsend host: it is american maelstrom 1968 election and politics of division. our guest is michael cohen in and from west palm beach, florida. kathleen kennedy-townsend the of senator ter robert f. kennedy. you for being with us n c-span and c-span american history tv. host: next week we will look at the state of the republican and conservative politics. the election of richard nixon, spiro agnew and race that included a first term

california ronald reagan. that is next sunday 8:30 eastern simulcast on c-span 3 american history tv for viewers on c-span 3, real america we begin with the robert f. t by ennedy and cbs special announcing he would seek the democratic nomination from march f 1968 and interview with senator eugene mccarthy and his response to the kennedy on c-span 3 next american history tv. host: we are back tomorrow live on c-span radio with jason dick of roll workweek and a lot of attention on mark zuckerburg testify before two congressional committees and evin kosar as we look at the postal service and amazon with

our street institute and bus part of the 50 state travel to idaho with governor butch otter. 7:00 a.m. eastern time nd thanks for joining us on "washington journal." news makers is networks. enjoy the rest of your wind and great week ahead. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> news makers is next with dr. scott gottlieb head of the drug administration followed by two events with president trump from earlier this week. a joint news conference at the white house with the leaders and tonia, latvia lithuania. the other a roundtable discussion on tax reform with

officials and local business leaders from west virginia. later, foreign policy experts theuss