after two decades as a nurse she began working as a free speech advocate for students. an independent federal litigator with the experience at the supreme court on more than 100 cases. tonight atark cases 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. join the conversation. follow us at c-span caret we span. ♪

this week on q and a. former professional best ballplayer and author. he discusses his both -- his book. we matter, athletes and activism. >> tell us the story of bill and what impact he had on your life. impact on myuge life. this is where i found my voice. i was 16 years old. in oklahoma. i was on my way to a basketball game. i was stopped by the police. i was made to get out of my car and lay on the ground and three or four different policeman came up and they were searching my car. weeard one of them say that know him from somewhere, he looks familiar. we have seen him somewhere before. they kept searching. they kept detaining me.

i remember being really embarrassed. all of these people passing by angeredat me and i was that i was being treated like a criminal but i had done nothing wrong. after 45 minutes or so one of them held up my high school bag and said he plays basketball, that is what we know him from. and then they were just kind of ok you are free to go. i was like, wait a minute. that's it, i am free to go? i was upset. i was late for the game. i played really angry and aggressively. i just left. had a speech. i was very upset about the whole thing. talking about it. let mech teacher said talk to you for a little while. he listened to me vent. listened to me talk about how unfair it was. because ibelieve over

am a black man. they did not apologize or anything like that. he said take everything that you are feeling and put it into a speech. i am like a speech. i'm not thinking about writing a speech right now. i am upset. he said no, use it for your original oratory. talk about what you are feeling. talk about the injustice. he said me, as a white male, i don't know this world. i have a whole different experience when i am pulled over by the police. tell my world what happens in your world. i'm kind of like ok, i will do that. i started performing the speech in different places. the newspaper wrote an article on it. a basketball player doing these speeches. talking about racism and police profiling. got all this attention just because i play basketball. all these people that i know that this happens to all the time. that was when i found my voice. i kind of continue on from

there. >> it was about 23 years ago. >> it was a little while ago. >> what happened next? >> i continued to do that. i went on to syracuse university. i continued to use my voice. when i was younger, i was always taught about the athletes that use their voice and use their positions and their platform. my mother taught me about muhammad ali. bill russell. jim brown. those are the athletes that i learned about. as i was getting older it was like a light bulb went off and i made the connection of how i can follow in their footsteps and bring attention to these different causes. just because i am an athlete. i just continued to do it. i continue to do it in the pros. it just became a part of me. >> you met your wife at syracuse.

there is a story in here about her. >> and syracuse, a lot of people hurt,know that if you get you can't play anymore. they can take your scholarship away. that's what almost happened to my wife. her jr. year the doctor told her that she should not play anymore because she had three salud -- three surgeries on her knee. it would not be a good idea to play anymore. her coach kind of went on a little bit of a crusade to take her scholarship away. she had to hire a lawyer and threaten to meet with the 80. d.with the a it went to show me how the ncaa is really a business. not a student athlete. they're not worried about your education. all that sounds nice. it is a billion dollar business with a be.

b.with a what they're concerned with is how to generate those billions. through that have gone college experience in playing ball, they know that feeling. it is something that you start seeing once you get there. you are looking at all the money that they are making. you reach into your pocket and don't feel anything but went. you see your jersey being sold. you see yourself on video games. you see all the people in the stands and say well, they are making a lot of money here. economically, it does not add up. >> what happened to her scholarship? >> she had a chance to keep it. she had to fight for it. a lot of people don't even know that that is a possibility. what was the reason they gave other than the injury. >> that was the reason.

they don't really need a reason. the reason is because you can't play anymore. it is a tough business. playat position did you and why did you pick syracuse? >> i played center. syracuse was, i'm born in new york. i love the tradition of the big east. syracuse, st., john, i always wanted to play in the big east. when i went there and some of school and saw the campus and , iked layers and professors really felt that it would be a place that i can thrive. . i had a great experience. that does not mean i can't still call out the hypocrisy of the ncaa. they make billions of dollars. then they say they don't have enough money to pay the players. i see the hypocrisy in that. >> how tall are you and how tall

is your wife? >> i'm 6'9". my wife is six feet. we have told children. >> what's the advantage of that? >> the advantage would be that you are blessed to have told children. it helps with basketball. disadvantages, i learned thanyou're viewed as older you are when you are taller. he is 12 years old, he is viewed as a 16-year-old young man. what he is 12. when he was eight he was viewed as a 12-year-old. i had to have the talk with him much earlier than i probably should have had. i had to expose him to the way that society is going to see him and view him a lot earlier than i wanted to.

>> what did you tell him? >> a lot. had to be around six years old. i told him that there are people who are going to view you as a criminal. he heard about the trayvon martin news. he was listening to it. he asked me what happened. i had to tell him. you're not going to always be the cute little kid with dreadlocks like your dad. that's not the way people are going to look at you. they will look at you as a threat. there are things that i have to teach you now. for instance, i had to tell about him when he gets older he has to always ask for a receipt, so nobody can accuse you of stealing. little nuances that black parents teach lacked children. i did not think i was going to have to teach it to him that young. talk about how the police look

at you. how you have to deescalate a situation that you did not even escalate in the first place. i had to have a regular conversation with him like that and he is six or seven years old. he -- youo say that had a talk with your daughters. >> definitely. they are 10 and seven. they are both tall for their ages. i participate in different discussions and things. people speak about how women are viewed. as a threat. the same way young men are. lost in times women are this conversation. you have situations like -- and you hear the justification. that she was mouthy or that she was talking back or had an attitude.

that was interpreted as a threat. this is something that caught the attention of my daughters. i had to have conversation with them that you have to be aware of your surroundings and how people are viewing you when they are in positions of power. it is not fair. is reality. -- it is reality. as a parent, the main thing you want for your children is to get home safely. >> after syracuse, then what? >> i came to d.c. it was, d.c. was a place that was rich with political energy. was -- and the invasion of iraq happened. was looking at it. it was after 9/11. george w was making the connection to iraq.

i was like what is the connection here. i don't see where the docs go here. -- with the dots go here. i don't understand why we are going to war here. i don't get it. friendser brother had who were enlisted. i remember that going off to war . i remember how much it hit me. ed is going to war. he's terrified. all these young people are being sent over to war for something that doesn't even need to happen. that is when i started speaking out against the war. i'm here at d.c. and speaking at different rallies. happenede things that was that -- his son was at one of the rallies. upcommended me for standing

and speaking my mind. a lot of the experience that i college high school to was not as much of the resistance from the management perspective of my speaking up. they were very supportive. of my right to be able to speak out. that is the thing that is up for debate right now. a lot of times when people speak you,and they disagree with then they don't want you to speak out. then you hear shut up and dribble. stick to your sport. i did not really experience that from the management part. i expands it from the media. but not from the management. >> how long did you play for the wizards and when did you decide to quit basketball? >> i retired after 11 years. i had a great experience. it was definitely a blessing.

nine seasons. i was injured for two years. it was in 2011. it was a blessing. i learned a lot. >> what happened in the middle of all this where you had to step away for a year? >> i had open heart surgery. i had a leaky valve. it had to be replaced. something i had when i was little. at some point it was going to have to be replaced. i did not know when. i didn't think it would be when i was 29 years old. >> what led to the need to have it done when you're 29? just testing. things come up in testing. that is why testing was so important. checking ejection fractions. seeing how your numbers are. my numbers dipped. they said we don't want to take in a chances.

it was right before training camp. i'm ready, i have been working out hard. they said, now is the time. pronounce youro first names of the audience does not get my mess pronunciation. >> i think you are doing a good job. people say -- it is ok. i saved it is like a baton, but without the b. >> your book cover. you in this picture coat, thai, maybe even a vast. and then when we see you sitting that this is another look you have. explain this look and why. dreadlocks, did you have dreadlocks in that picture? >> yes.

but it was just pulled back. it is just pulling back hair. different styles. >> that is your trademark. >> one of the things with the cover, i grew up admiring my uncle. i wanted to re-create the cover of malcolm x.. it changed my entire life. >> i want to share some video of malcolm x. so that we can continue this discussion about who he was. created thelly image of the american the grow as someone with no confidence, .o militancy they had done this by giving him images of heroes that worked truly militant or confident. as soon as people begin to identify with the type of image he was creating, they were going to have trouble out of these negros. >> when did you first learn

about malcolm x.? >> seventh grade. i read a biography and that changed everything. my eyes were opened. i was in the darkness. somebody opened up the shade and turned on >> the lights. it was bright outside. >>what the telly? -- tell you? >> there were so many things around me that i need to question. why did the policeman get off. why am i not taught about my history in my school? the only time i went about my history is at home when my mother teaches me about it. just questioning things. seeing yourself and having a pride in yourself and learning of yourfferent members race and the things that they have done and come pushed in the past, that is what i started learning about muhammad ali.

i learned about the courage that it took for him to take the stand that it took. how everybody turned on him. was a heavyweight champion of the world he look -- they loved him for that. then he started talking about racism and said he was not going to go into the war. everything changed. having that courage to be able to stand up for what you believe in, even though you know that the majority are going to criticize you for it. it takes a lot of courage to be able to do that. i just started learning more. >> wended malcolm asked i and why? >> there was a much that happened. when you stand up for what you believe and you are a speaker of truth, your life was on the line. about dr. martin luther king and malcolm x., you can go down the list of people who sacrificed their lives to be able to stand up for what they believe in, especially in that time.

period, that is what makes them even more courageous. we are blessed be able to say what we say and have a certain level of criticism. our lives are not threatened the same way. you're not dealing with situations of cap or neck or lebron james. you see the level of criticism that they receive, it is completely different. >> how did he die? by, thereassassinated it.a lot of haziness around wasou ask how dr. king assassinated, there is a short answer but there is lot behind that as well. >> do you think that he was assassinated by someone of his own race? >> yeah.

>> somebody close to the leader? >> -- and, it is abi complicated answer. >> why would somebody -- what do you think the reason would be why someone would want to assassinate him? >> the same reason you would want to assassinate anybody at the time. you would kill the messenger because you want to stop the message. but you can't kill a revolution. you can stop the revolutionary, but not revolution. malcolm x's message has lived on. that is what makes them so great. that is why everyone knows their names. that is why i picked up the book in seventh grade. autobiography of malcolm x and learn about everything that made him everything in his entire journey.

people will be learning about malcolm x. for centuries to come. 2016re is video of you in and first baptist church. let's watch. about 10 feet tall. a huge dude. married to nicole. and her family. their family is all here. here from oklahoma. about what that was about and why you do these kind of things. >> i do a lot of panel discussions and a lot of speaking. i am speaking of different issues -- on different issues the amountget coverage that they should.

but people here what athletes say. whatever the issue is. right there we were talking, i think the issue was dealing with fatherhood because my previous book was on fatherhood. i do panels all over the country. i use different celebrities and utilize their voices and platforms. we speak and different things. i have been doing it for a wild. .t is -- for a while it is a powerful platform to have. you're able to encourage people in a way that sometimes they might not hear from other people. you are able to tell them that their lives matter no matter what they are being told by society. or with every not guilty verdict. or every unarmed police shooting that happens. where the victim was unarmed and did not do anything wrong or deserve to die.

we are telling them that their life matters despite all that. it is a powerful platform to have. how much do you worry about being in the public spotlight? you are out there talking about some controversial things. you always want to protect your family. it is a blessing to be able to -- one of things that you see was that the fearlessness of athletes using their platforms now. wade take an dwayne picture with his son. s and i i look at my son want to say that this is not ok. this is not normal. i should not be viewed as a criminal. because we have a hoodie on. and he posed with his son. showsk that kind of thing that it is not -- athletes are

not interjecting themselves into the conversation for any reason. they just want to be a part of the everyday discussion. these are personal things to them. there are personal reasons for it. children to have a better place. we want our children to be able to live and breathe and not be feared. and not go into a situation where there profiled -- they are profiled. children andg our the world that they live in. a lot of people think that athletes don't -- part affected by these things. i'd affected by police brutality. this didn't happen but you're an athlete and you are in a protective bubble. that is not the way it is. when the police stopped you they don't look at you as an athlete, they look at you as a black man who could potentially be dangerous to them. your son welcome, i assumed

you named him after malcolm x.. >> yes. let's will this. -- >> let's watch this. >> there will always be people who look at me as a threat. i will have to work twice as hard and be twice as good turn a little bit of societies respect. there are good white people and that white people just like there are good white -- good black people and bad black people. devils come in all shades. himself? write that >> yes. >> where did you get that talent? >> that's him. i have been taking him to different things with me for a long time. right now, he is in the waiting room and he is watching this. he is watching, observing, learning. formulating his own thoughts. he is a thinker.

that is one of the things that i am proud of. he thinks and asks questions. things.ways seeing can this be this way as well? people,s with young with the type of education that they are getting, they are almost taught to regurgitate answers. not to think and have their own opinio does and has always done is he is a thinker. he formulates his own opinions and thoughts. i encourage him to write them down. >> you see him in the seventh grade. is there any difference from the time you were growing up and his atmosphere here in election era? >> of course. >> what is the difference? so much that has changed. especially with internet and

social media. younger people or are aware a lot more. i was just learning about a lot of the stuff that he has been learning for the past three or four years. when i was his age. right now young people are organizing in a way that is just too full to see. after the parkland incident you are seeing the march for our lives. all put on by young people. you are seeing young people come --n to the sea -- two d.c. to d.c.. and talking about what they want change. people are only saying that young people are not engaged. they are only worried about video games or some type of technology or social media. but you are hearing these young people talk now. it is encouraging to see.

is what the book is about. for everybody to use their collective voices. -- as in as i asked him about athletes, he said it is wonderful. he would always encourage athletes to continue to use their voice. then he said he wanted everybody to use their platform. not just athletes. everyone can use their platform. they really push for young people. they are the ones who are going to take over. they're the ones who will be in positions of power. you want young people to encourage them to have the freedom and be able to withstand criticism. people are way young being criticized who are speaking about gun reform. it is amazing to see the parallels. that is the way athletes are criticized. you see cabinet come out and speak. russell and anthony. all these people who speak out

or then that is when they are told to shut up and play. you don't know what you are talking about. the same thing happens to the young people. you are too young to know that nuances of gun reform. they are saying no, we can break it down for you. encouraging to see that energy from young people. likeat was your own father and how big of a family did you grow up in? >> me and my brother. my parents got divorced when i was younger. it is differently than being in the home. visitations twice, maybe a month, was different. my main purpose of wanting to write the book was to encourage young people who are growing up in single parent homes to know that they can still be successful in life. they can still make the right choices. if they don't believe me they

can hear all these different voices that oppose their stories. i interviewed different people in that book as well. people who young people would recognize and be inspired by. all the books are about inspiration for me. read andung people to be inspired to continue to use their voice. read about michael bennet using his voice and using his platform. eric reed who is with the whole time. how he is using his his voice. and how they use their voice after -- were killed. how they collectively did it as an entire league. the entire wnba. which was something phenomenal that we have not seen. i want people to be inspired. that is my reason for writing. >> you cite film and books.

that have had an impact on you. here is coat carter. let's watch this. >> i know you all like statistics to let me give you some. graduates 50% the of its students. of those who do graduate, only 6% go to college. which tells me, when i walked on these halls, maybe only one student is going to go to college. but if i'm not going to college, where am i going to go? that is a great question. the answer is this. probably to prison. >> that is 2005. why did i get your attention? of schools.o a lot i have been since i was in college. my mother is a teacher.

to have me come to speak to her school. she said you need to speak to them and speak honestly. i have been doing that for a long time. as far asng people what they have, what roles they have to climb and how the chips are stacked against them. and how they are to look at their school, look at the fact that they have brand-new metal detectors. the suburb of 15 people in the class. a teacher's aide. on the chalkboard with old books. the close when it's too cold like baltimore. because the heater didn't work. you are not getting the same education. you have to know that going in. you are going to be judged by the same standards. if you can look at this and know that it is not equal and know that you have to work twice as

because the chips are stacked against you. if you do not, you will be looking on the outside looking in. you will be thrown by the wayside. you will be a part of those statistics that samuel jackson said. you have to be honest. he don't want to go through life thinking everything is fair. you have to tell them what is reality. you have to work twice as hard. you are going to be judged as if you are getting the same education. but you are not. >> hears william who writes books. let's watch this clip. all the black people are concentrated in the two revenue-producing sports. basketball and football. the rest of the afflicted apartment, field hockey, swimming, tennis, which they support, there is no black presence at all. maybe one swimmer here. one over there. sports most part, these

are supporting all these country club sports. it is the ultimate plantation. >> why is that? >> the ncaa etan: all players are set up for what generates money. and the top generating sports are football and basketball and they happened to be the sports with most african-americans in them. brian: why is that? why are african-americans not more interested in country club sports? is it because kids parents are in country clubs? etan: we have outliers of people that are dominating in tennis and golf and things of that nature. but as far as the predominant, we look at the ncaa, march madness right now or the nfl, they are predominantly black sports. so what he is referring to, his book, which is great, "the $40 million slave," we will be speaking at harvard. i love to debate with him.

i think his book is a necessary read for all young athletes not to fall into the category he puts them in in $40 billion slave. it is a category of not knowing who you are and where you fall in society and not having a voice and being muted. it is a very good book. i definitely, i had a debate with him a couple of years ago here at georgetown. i have a lot of respect for him. brian: when i was a freshman in high school, in indiana, our team played in the finals of a 1956 state championship in indianapolis. and the star of the indianapolis team was a man named oscar robertson. here he is. he is 79 years old. [video clip] >> we were just like anyone else. we went to school, played ball, and fortunately for us, we won basketball games. that put us in a category were they had to write about us. they had to say something good about us.

because our coach would not let us do anything in all. our coach was great. an all-black high school in indianapolis. our coach was great because he had been around whites and he knew what it took. he knew you had to be a gentleman on the court at all times. brian: i did not live in indianapolis, i lived north. when i read your book am was reminded of what happened when they won the championship. i was surprised. we had nothing but respect for forstmas addicts -- crispus attucks and oscar robertson, and their coach who was quite a gentleman. what happened after they won that state championship? etan: he saw how they were treated and how they were viewed and it opened his eyes to a lot of stuff. i had the chance to interview oscar robertson and bill russell. it was interesting hearing from them. now you hear oscar robertson is

the all-time leading triple-double in the nba. bill russell has won 11 championships for boston. but hearing them talk about how they were treated after that was eye-opening for me. i read about it, of course. brian: they couldn't have a parade the same place as the white team. etan: everything was segregated. bill russell is telling me in the book how he was winning championships for boston, then he goes down to kentucky and they can't eat at the same restaurant. he speaks about how wrong that is. if we are not going to be able to eat here, we will not play here. and all the black players left. he talked about how everyone was upset. like, how dare you? why aren't you more grateful? and it was, wait a minute, you are ok for me not to be able to eat with my white teammates? it was one of those things where everything was ok until he started talking about segregation and racism and things that were wrong.

it is just a matter, if you're going to be silent or point out what was wrong. that is why people talk about bill russell now. because he had the courage, and -- in that day. to be able to stand up and say what is right and what is wrong. and, oscar robertson as well. brian: oscar robertson went on to play at the university of cincinnati and went on to play nba ball. what impact did he have on society when he was in the nba? what did he do? etan: he change the fact that we have free agency and it is something we enjoy right now. brian: what does that mean? etan: i asked him about it in the book. he talked about, the way they had the system before, if a team drafted you, that was it until they didn't want you anymore. you had no rights, no time when you could interview for a different team. there was nothing.

you were with that one team. and there was no free agency period, where you could look as if you wanted to play with somebody else or somebody wanted to make you a better offer. or anything like that. so, we can't imagine a situation like that, but that was the norm for them. i asked oscar robertson about what kind of courage did it take for you to do that? how upset were people? oh, he got death threats. like, how dare you? you should just be grateful. i wanted to make the connection of what it took for him to be able to change an entire system to the ncaa, where i am hoping, decades down -- hopefully not decades -- that they will be looking at the system we had with the ncaa and in looking at it how i was looking at the system they had, how ridiculous it is good -- how ridiculous that is.

so, you had a system where they made a billion dollars every single year and did not pay the players at all, and that was ok? this is something you are actually a part of? this is something i want to happen later on. all it takes is something to challenge it to the level oscar robertson was able to challenge it. and, you know, it's a hard road. it is a hard road. that is why oscar robertson is so revered and why he is so put on the pedestal that he is, because he had the courage to be able to do that. brian: there is a basketball coach who is paid $10 million a year. what do you think of that? etan: in the nba or the ncaa? brian: ncaa, in college basketball. etan: when you say $10 million a year and they don't have enough to pay the players, that shows the hypocrisy could -- that shows the hypocrisy. you look at the numbers and you look at the fact that everybody associated is getting paid,

everybody except for the players. brian: do the players ever confront a coach, why are you being paid all that money? etan: the players do not confront the coaches. they confront the system. the coaches can get endorsements. the players cannot get endorsements. adidas, they cannot make an endorsement with a player. for marketing or goods, they have to make it with a coach. everything you see in that ncaa, anything with any kind of logo on it, they are getting paid for it. but the players are not. brian: when will this end or will it? etan: it will end. it will not happen when the ncaa finds it in their heart to change the system. that will not happen. it will not end until they are forced to end. when that happens, i do not know. i think it will happen. brian: here is a woman -- tell us who she is.

etan: she played in the wnba. she was known as the female michael jordan. she was playing with the mystics when i was playing with the wizards. she is somebody who uses her position and her platform to really talk about something that is not really talked about a lot, which is mental health. brian: why did you put her story in the book? etan: because, first of all, how inspiring she was to my daughters. i did a panel with her and i saw how she was inspiring to an auditorium full of young girls who were hearing her story. brian: what is her story? etan: her story about how she had to deal with mental health and how she acted like it wasn't something that was an issue because it was a taboo subject in sports. especially with men, but even with women. brian: what impact did it have on her? etan: a tremendous impact. she had a breakdown at certain times and there were rumors flying and she talked about dealing with that and dealing with the stigma having mental

health issues. i saw an entire auditorium of young girls completely relate to everything she was saying. i started looking at the numbers of people in america who have mental health issues and people who are going untreated. you would be surprised. just to have that courage to be able to stand up -- that is a thing about the book, to have the courage to be able to stand up for something and use your position as a platform for other people who do not have the ability, for whatever reason, to be able to stand up for themselves. brian: here's 20 seconds of her talking. [video clip] >> a gold-medal winning basketball player accused of a crime here in metro atlanta. >> she appeared in a fulton county courtroom this morning. >> my life changed dramatically, legally, socially, financially -- for once, it was not pushing through something or breaking through something. it is not about that.

it is about realizing i needed help. brian: did she ever go to prison? etan: no. brian: did she ever get convicted? etan: i think there was -- i am not sure. brian: why is she known for mental health? etan: because she has taken it on head-on. she has used it as her platform. she has a documentary that is phenomenal. she has written a book about it. she has been speaking on it and talking pretty much nonstop about it. she is really taking this seriously, as far as using this position and this platform to talk about mental health. one thing you have to understand is that mental health is you can -- you can have a bum knee and that is viewed as ok, or an ankle or a hip or something like that and they can work with that. but something wrong with you mentally, especially in professional sports, it is not even supposed to happen.

you're not supposed to -- that is not supposed to be a subject. now you have different teams that have had psychiatrists that they have hired, different players that have had anxiety. now you see different players coming out. kevin love talked about his mental health. kevin with the wizards talked about his anxiety and how he learned to deal with it. now people are coming up. that all kind of started with shaniqua. royce white, it did not work out for him because they did not know how to deal with his mental health. he would get anxiety every time he had to fly or do certain things that would trigger him. he was a great player. a lottery pick. but they were so afraid of the term mental health that they did not want to touch it. and now shaniqua is starting a thing were athletes are not shunned because they have mental health challenges. they are learning to deal with

it. so it is changing everything. brian: do you talk differently to a white audience than a black audience? etan: it depends on the topic. brian: whatever it is, what would be the difference? etan: for instance, i just spoke at penn state to an audience of about 400 students. maybe there were five black students. it's predominantly white. we are talking about -- they asked, as far as how they don't know this world. it's an honest question. it's like, we don't know this world. so we hear black people talking about things with the police and we can't really relate because it is not our experience. so, of course, we have disbelief. it's like, he must be exaggerating. until the video comes out. they were very honest. they were saying some of the things you are describing, that can't possibly be what happened.

the black people all kind of smile. you have no idea. because this is the privilege that you have. when you have bill o'reilly, who always says what i get stopped by police, i just listen to what they say and follow the rules and i have no problem. your experience with the police is completely different from mine. it is not -- you can't even compare. there are rules that we have when we get stopped by the police. i will tell you a story. i was with my son malcolm and his teammate. practice, i'mu his coach. that is a basketball team. we get stopped by the police. as soon as i get stopped, i roll down the window, turn the music off, take my wallet and put it on the dashboard, take my camera, put my phone on record,

but my hands at 10:00 and 2:00, i am doing all this immediately and they are looking at me, let, ike, what is all this you are doing? the officer comes up. how are you doing, officer? hello. it is de-escalating a situation that i did not escalate in the first place because i know that, depending on how this person is viewing the situation, who has all the power in this situation, it can be a matter of life or death. it can be a matter of us getting home safely and not getting home safely. that is something that predominantly white america doesn't understand because they don't have to do all of that. that is just not the reality. so speaking to a white audience, telling them of the privilege they live in and understanding, trying to have empathy for the fact that there is a whole different world that you are not a part of and that you don't have to deal with, that is what these athletes are talking about.

and being an athlete is not what will save you from being in that situation or being viewed as a threat. that is something that is hard for a lot of people to digest. that is why hearing different athletes talk about specifically the nypd athlete, broke his leg. they tackled him and brought -- they tackled him in broad daylight. he was a former tennis player. he was at the u.s. open and they thought he was somebody else. they tackled him in front of his hotel. in broad daylight. they viewed him as a threat. hearing those stories kind of brings it, brings a whole different thing to mainstream america that, without video, they would not really believe it exists. brian: have you ever talked to cops about why they do this? or maybe they don't do it, but they have seen their colleagues do it. etan: we have had forums with policemen.

we did great forums at my church where we talk to big groups of youth. one of the things that troy smith, who won a super bowl of the eagles. after kaepernick took a knee, they had these forums with the police in different cities to have the police hear from the community and have the community hear from the police. and then try to push for different laws to get changed. so, yes, i have had a lot of different experiences as far as having police at the forums. there are good cops and their bad cops. -- there are good cops and there

are bad cops. there's good police and there are bad police. everybody is not one way. everybody is not bad. everybody is not great. when you have a policeman, first of all, that recognizes that reality and recognizes that there are things that need to change, that is when you can have an honest conversation. if you can't start right there, then i don't know where you go from there. because it is not a situation where the police are always right and do everything by the book and you just have to do this and obey the rules and everything will be fine. that can't be the conversation. it has to be an honest conversation. and there are bad apples out there. and there are different things that need to be changed. those are just facts. brian: how do black and white players get along in the nba? etan: black and white players get along just fine. one of the things that i wanted to encourage through the course of this book was for white athletes to use their voices. i was able to interview steve

kerr and he uses his voice, and mark cuban. you need more white athletes to use their voices. a lot of white people will only hear from other white people. that is just a reality. so when popovich says all the things that he says right now in san antonio, there is a whole different segment that will listen to popovich that will not listen to anything that kaepernick says or lebron says. no matter what they say. you know? even when my son and i and my daughters were watching "selma," how everything changed once the white clergy joined them and the world started to see it differently, that is just the reality of what happened. so pushing for white athletes to not be in the comfort zone that they are in, but get involved in the different causes and use their voices, that is why we have so much respect for the

young people from parkland with the march for our lives because they said we have the spotlight right now. now we will talk about how gun violence affects different communities where there's been no attention. they are using their privilege to bring light to a situation that does not directly affect them. brian: four years ago, anderson cooper interviewed a man named don sterling. you write about him in the book. here is 30 seconds from that interview. [video clip] >> what has he done? can you tell me? big magic johnson, what has he done? >> he is a businessperson. >> he's got aids. >> did he do any business? did he help anybody in south l.a.? >> well, it's hiv. he does not have full-blown aids. >> what kind of a guy goes to every city, a with every girl, then he catches hiv. is that someone we want to respect and tell our kids about? [end video clip]

brian: don sterling means what to people like you who play basketball? etan: here's an interesting character. someone who has been who he is for a long time. the way the nba handled his situation after the tape came out of him saying racist comments talking about magic and , a lot of different things, and they listened to the players, i think that was really something that was powerful, the way the players handled it. they banded together. they went to the head of the nba, the head of the nba, the commissioner. and said we don't want this in our league. lebron james was playing again somewhere else and used the time after the game and talked about it. that is not something we want in our league. one of the things you are seeing

is how collective voices can really get things done. and collectively, the nba players got together and said they did not want this to represent their league. it was phenomenal how they use their voice and how the nba responded. donald sterling is who he is and it is not a matter of allowing something to just persist. but when you have the collective voice of all the nba saying one thing, a lot can happen. brian: the picture on the screen, this happened before you were born or close to it. i want you to tell us about what impact this had on your? etan: i interviewed john carlos for the book. from the 1968 olympics. i interviewed john carlos in the book and i talked about this very picture and the courage it took for him to be up to use this platform at the olympics, you know what i mean?

to be able to make the statement as far as the way that black people and brown people are treated in the country. and use that platform to make that statement and relate it to what kaepernick did, you know what i'm saying, as far as taking a knee. and the fact that people told him that was not the right time, not the right place to make that statement. do that protest on your own time. he said, if i did it in my own time, nobody would see it. i have to do it somewhere everyone would see it. that is the same with colin kaepernick. you have everyone's attention and you have to bring light to a topic people act like does not happen. i have so much respect for john carlos and others, they are the pioneers i look up to. brian: what, in your opinion has been the positive result of kaepernick taking a knee? etan: there is a lot of positive results. there is an awakening.

especially at the nfl. this past season was probably the most speaking out of nfl players that i can ever say that i have seen. even looking back in history, just as far as a collective whole, speaking about injustice. it's an invasion of a safe space where a lot of people don't want to be able to talk about anything that is going on or anything that is wrong. it's kind of like a facade of just football and a retreat from everything going on in society. and the players were, well, no, we cannot retreat because this is every day life for us. kaepernick was talking about -- and of course, they wanted to switch it to be about the military and about the flag. but he said this is not about the military or the flag. this is about injustice. this is about the political process. we deserve better.

and this is about police brutality and the killings of unarmed black men and black women. this is about systemic racism. he said, i can't take it anymore. i can't look at case after case of police killing unarmed men and nothing happens. i really commend him for taking that stand. of course, he had threats and people who turned on him. now it seems like he is being blackballed out of nfl. but he could not take it anymore and that is what people will remember his name. brian: the name of this book is "we matter: athletes and activism." etan thomas, thank you for joining us. etan: thank you so much for having me. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] announcer: for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. q&a programs are also available as c-span podcasts. ♪ q&a, we hearnd on lillian cunningham, creator of the washington toe post -- creator of the washington post presidential unconstitutional podcast. trumpsday, donald welcomes emmanuel macron to the white house foreign official state visit. i live coverage begins tuesday

with welcoming remarks by the two heads of state. then live coverage of president trump's first state dinner starting at 6:30 p.m. with guest arrivals and toasts. the official state visit of french president emmanuel macron starting tuesday morning on c-span. c-span.org, and on the c-span radio app. white house press secretary sarah sanders will be previewing the visit during her white house briefing. it is scheduled to start at 1:00 p.m. eastern. we will have live coverage on c-span. this afternoon, the senate foreign relations committee meets to vote on the president's secretary of state nominee, mike pompeo. earlier today, democrat joe manchin of west virginia announced he will support the nomination.

one of 14 democrats who will vote in favor of mike pompeo. live coverage begins at 5:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. you can also watch online on c-span.org or listen with our free c-span radio app. cases,ght on landmark des moines independent community school district v tinker. wore black armbands to school to protest the vietnam war. the students and the four tinker siblings challenged the free speech decisions and the resulting free -- the resulting decidedcourt decision that the supreme court -- that the students keep their rights on school grounds. our guest is one of the students you challenge the district. she was 13 at the time.

after decades as a pediatric nurse she spoke international -- she spoke -- watch landmark cases tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span and join the conversation. our #is landmark cases and follow us at c-span. we have resources for background on each case. a link to the national constitution center's international constitution, at c-span.org/landmark cases. >> our guest on c-span's newsmakers is oklahoma republican senator james lankford. he serves on the intelligence committee, the appropriations committee where he is chair of one of the subcommittees on financial services, homeland security and indian affair