and her book "hate: why we should resist it with free --ech, not censorship". censorship." later, david horowitz has new book in his series of essays called "ruling ideas: the black book of the american left." ♪ everyone, onrning, this friday, may 4, 2018. we will begin this conversation on the presidents conflicting statements about a settlement his personal lawyer made to an adult film star and previous statements as well. it was said yesterday on fox it with a habit of the president, and the wall street journal said the president should be worried, americans will stop believing anything he said. we want to hear from you.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also join us on facebook at facebook.com/cspan, or go to twitter and post your comments on @cspanwj. andill get to your thoughts just a minute, but let's get to the new york times and peter baker's piece this morning. the president loses grip on his own story. as of last week, the american public had been told that president trump's doctor had certified he would be "the healthiest individual ever elected. the president was happy with his legal team and would not hire a new lawyer, and he did not know to a the $130,000 payment former pornographic film actress who claims to have had an affair with him. as of this week, it turns up a statement about his health was not actually from his doctorate

-- dr. but had been dictated by mr. trump himself. the president has split with the leaders of his legal team and hired the same new leader he had denied recruiting. and that mr. trump himself had finance the $130,000 payment intended to buy the silence of the act there's known as stormy daniels. even in the current political environment that some derisively called the post-truth world, the past few days have offered a head spinning series of revelations that conflicted with the version of events mr. trump and his associates had previously provided. whether called lies or misstatements, mr. trump's history of falsehoods has been extensively documented, but that string could come back to haunt him." in the wall street journal, does it bother anyone that the president has been caught lying act does it bother anyone that it is not new? anyone at the president has been shown to be a liar? these questions are front and center before the country. people will answer them differently due to their views on trump.

some will condone it, some will condemn it, and some will look the other way. the letter goes on to report in this paper this morning, other presidents have lied about events and policies, so this president has some company. from serial exaggerations to disregard for the fact, his claim that millions of people voted illegally for hillary clinton in 2016 to obvious falsehoods, delivered or unconscious, trump has a pattern in practice that is often breathtaking in its audacity. checkerington post fact reported this week that the number of falsehoods or misleading claims has now reached 3000, an average of 6.5 per day. we are asking all of you this morning the impact of conflicting statements from the president. what do you think? democrats, [indiscernible]

-- democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. here is neil caputo on fox last night, and here is what he had to say about the president and inaccurate statements during his presidency. [video clip] >> how can you drain the swamp if you are the one who keeps muddying the waters? you did not know about that $130,000 payment to a foreign star until you did. you knew nothing about how your former lawyer, michael cohen, handled this, until it knowledge and today that you were the guy behind the retainer payment that took care of this. money from the campaign or campaign contributions played no role in this transaction. of that you are sure. you could4 hours ago, not recall any of this and you seemed very sure. i am not saying you are a liar, you are the president and you are busy, but i am having a

devil of a time trying to figure out what to think. your own words give me lots of pause, like you said the russians interfere -- like when you said the route options that russians did not interfere the 2016 election until republicans reminded you that they did. you came back later and said that you had never said that. this does not make me a never trumper, just confused. like when you claimed your tax plan was the biggest in u.s. history, when it wasn't, or the bill that you signed to make it all happen cost you a fortune when it turns out it is going to help you make a bigger fortune, or that your numbers are not relatively that bad, relative to other presidents, when they are worse. that can change. what is weird is that the pattern does not. time you said rumors of rex tillerson's departure at the state department were false, until they were not, or that your former chief of staff,

reince priebus, was not going anywhere, until he was, or wasomic advisor gary cohen doing a great job, until he wasn't. had your legal team locked in place, denied reports you are ever thinking about firing robert mueller, even as you now threaten getting involved at the justice department. none of this makes you evil, but i am sure you understand why even your friends say these inconsistencies do not make you helpgood or do anything to advance your policies, many of which are very good. host: we turn to you this morning to get your thoughts on there, the pattern of misstatement. what is the impact of this? . in north carolina, democrat. good morning. thank you for playing those comments, because i never, ever watch fox news, but i appreciate his comments.

i think there is going to be a huge backlash about this. i actually have had experience with having a relationship with a eventual liar once upon a time, and what happens is they tell so many lives they lose track of what they said and start repeating the same lies. they just get caught up in a web , and trump has done this to himself. so now we see the real trump, giuliani, irudy think they make a perfect pair. i'm looking forward to november, when the democrats will take it all back -- well, except the white house, but who knows what will happen there. thank you so much for taking my call. host: bob in wisconsin, a republican. good morning. bob in clover, wisconsin? let me try that one more time. caller: [inaudible] hear sorry, we did not

you. could you start over? caller: good morning. i see there is a pattern, but that bill clinton lied like crazy in office. hillary lied like crazy. , likelied like crazy about obamacare. the point is, ma'am, our politicians are coming -- becoming so corrupt on both sides that it scares me. our america is no longer our america, it is the government's. we have to stop that. the democrats will not win, but that was my comment. everybody seems to lie in office. host: before you go, does that make president trump just another politician? something he said he was not? host: -- caller: i voted for him and i will support him very much because he has done a lot for america, more than obama any day, but as a politician, you have to stand higher than a lot of people, because you are out

there in public. wouldish president trump kind of slowdown with his mouth, but what he has done for america and what he is doing for america outdid obama, clinton, and so i appreciate that part. he does kind of seem like a rag or -- braggart. a lot of rich people are like that. are: bragging and what some calling lying, would you agree they are two different things? caller: sure. host: and the wall street journal editorial, a conservative paper -- why did not the so-called media get down on obama for lying, hillary for lying? wire we attacking this president because he is doing good for america. i do not trust the news. understand that, bob. going back to this, because i want to get your opinion on this editorial -- caller: i do not believe the

wall street journal, ma'am, and like the new york times because they are a democratic puppet in my mind. they really are. he is a liar. who hasn't live? can't turn around and stop lying? .t will bite him some i think attacking his wife by the media, saying what is she going to do, is she going to divorce him? that is so unnecessary. host: the point that the wall street journal is making is that the damage that could be done by these conflicting statements, is that mr. trump is compiling a therd of them and increases likelihood that few will believe him during a genuine crisis, like a dispute over speaking with special counsel robert mueller or a nuclear showdown with kim jong-un. esther trump should worry that americans. believing anything he says. your reaction to that?

no.er: i think people are blowing this way out of shape. they let obama go and he lied through his teeth. they let clinton go. mr. trump, as i call it, is going to do good for america, and it is not going to hurt our country one bit as every politician lies through his teeth. a lot of them. look to the democrats. it is not going to hurt nobody. thanks. host: patty in virginia, a democrat. good morning to you. caller: good morning. what you heard was a perfect portion ofa large this population unelected donald trump and you is willing to rationalize -- who is willing to rationalize his blatant, every single day, provable lies.

this, to me, is a core value issue at one level, right? up toght my daughters understand that telling the truth as you see it, what comes out of your mouth is the only evidence of who you are as a real human being in this world. the reality that donald trump creates for himself, if you was just a private citizen, yes, that would be his problem. he is the president of the united states. most of us dread any kind of objectivity and who are not brainwashed with hillary hating and democrat hating and liberal hating propaganda coming out of fox news and much worse outlets for years and years and years, most of us could clearly see that donald trump is an amoral human being.

he does not have a sense of what morality actually is, and it is damaging to our country on so many levels. you gave an example of the north korea issue, so many other foreign-policy issues related to syria, related to our credibility as a partner in nato, every level. but also on the level of what is -- what does this country mean when we are willing to make excuses for a leader who is blatantly, daily providing false information to the entire country and the entire world? host: patty's thoughts in virginia. jim is in maryland, and independent. caller: yes. i guess i agree with the woman who says that a person's integrity is measured by whether they speak the truth as they see it. donald trump terrifies me because i can believe that he

really believes every statement he makes, the true ones and the false ones. the reasons he can believe that is because he has a personal definition of truth. what wins for donald trump is true and what loses for donald trump is false. i think he has been afflicted by parental abuse, according to his biographer, his father taught him there are winners and there are losers. --elieve that donald trump and i sympathize with him -- is demolishing's it is is worked. host: as president of the united states, what does that mean for the country? we should worry about objectivity, and when a

president consistently speaks against the real world that we perceive, we should say he is a dangerous man, because he is not going to lead the country rationally. i am terrified that donald trump is a man who would be emperor, and in the end he will launch ice police against the sanctuary cities and we will have a civil war. i am terrified of donald trump because of his it is demolishing. host: you did not vote for him, then? caller: he is psychotic. that is where i come from. in jacksonville, florida. a republican. you are on the air. america, ad morning tribute to robin williams. i realize our president is battling the democrats on a minute by minute basis there. media exposure about him is all

whative and nobody told us he was going to do in middle america. if you look at the electoral college, it is incredible how many states voted for him and we are still behind him 100%. you, thes it bother did of that neil caputo his conflicting statements? i listened to what neil had to say. he made a lot of good points, but i still believe that this andcame from new york area does not know anybody in washington. all the people he has brought through to try and help run the country, he is getting advice from other people from washington. ,e is trying to find his team and from them he is going to try and do what he has been stating for 7-10 years and trying to get this country back on a moral ground as far as our values in middle america. host: the point that neil caputo

made was that the media, or people who are putting out these conflicting statements, are using the president's own words. these are not the words of his aides or people that are around him. caller: the latest example, he had sex with that woman about 10 or 12 years ago. anys just being a dog, like , like probably 50% of this males -- the males in this country are. they all lie about their sex life, believe me. legalthere could be ramifications for this. the new york points out that legally, the failures to disclose the payment could be a violation of the ethics in government act of 1978, which requires federal officials, including mr. trump, report any liabilities of more than $10,000 during the preceding year. esther trump last disclosure report, which he filed in june, mentions no debt to mr. cohen.

the new york times, inside the newspaper this morning, has a piece about untangling the legal issues of this $130,000 payment. laws apply?finance in question is whether the payment to the actress was intended to influence the election by supporting a claim that could hurt mr. trump's chances. if so, it was most likely federal by campaign-finance law. prevent donors for making in-kind donations of more than $27,000. while -- they require candidates to disclose funding, both donations to their campaign and expenditures. if the motive for the payment was unrelated to the election, it was not covered by those laws. history suggests it can be tricky to prove that the motivation was political rather than personal.

in 2012, the justice department prosecuted john edwards from north carolina overpayments from wealthy donors that were used to hide his pregnant mistress while he ran for president. mr. edwards lawyers argued that instead he was trying to hide the affair from his wife. in the end, the jury acquitted him for one charge while deadlocking on the other five, and prosecutors opted not to seek a new trial. that from the new york times this morning, if you are interested in reading more on the untangling of the legal issues of this 130,000 payment -- $130,000 payment. let's go to david in illinois. we are talking about the impact of conflicting statements. caller: yes, hello. giuliani, god bless his clinton hurt hillary but now he is hurting donald trump. i think it is great. thanks. host: robert in florida,

independent. hello. caller: i would just like to say that this man was unfit for the presidency from the beginning, and it is a sad state of affairs, what is going on in this country. callers said,e other people do it so it is ok. it shows that the people of getting the government they deserve, as they would vote for this type of a person in this position to sit up there and constantly lie and whatever else he is up to. it is just pathetic. the people from west virginia, the coal miners really believe this man has their interests at heart. they are crazy. that ishouse of cards falling, and i believe with stormydaniels -- daniels lawyer, he will not finish his term. he has got to be out of there. if he was a ceo, he would have been fired a long time ago. host: are you still there? are you going to vote in 2018? caller: oh yes.

host: do you feel like your friends, community, those around you that you know are more motivated and 2018? caller: oh yes. and they know this is a terrible situation for this country. it is really sad and pathetic, and a nobel prize -- he had nothing to do with what is going on over there. he takes credit for anything good that comes out and anything bad, he just denies. ands a really sad situation it is just pathetic. it is so pathetic it makes you sick. kathleen, los angeles, republican. good morning to you. caller: good morning, good morning. i am up early. i am an early bird. you know, the establishment, the establishment media, the establishment politicians have been after trump from day one. they have dogged this man from day one.

we trump supporters realize that. you know, democrats have lied to black america for 50 years. the media has lied to black america for 50 years. immigrants, a legal aliens only do agricultural work. they are doing 80% of the construction work in los angeles. so, you know, these are little trying tot he's not be got. trump is bullying the bullies that have bullied america forever and a day. the politicians have bullied america forever and a day, and realize this.rs we realize this. he is not lying about the things, he is trying not to be got by the establishment, and trump supporters no longer want the establishment politicians and establishment media. think --hleen, do you what is your reaction to the

wall street journal argument, that this matter, now that he is president, because americans will not believe him when there is a genuine crisis? --ler: no, trump supporters you see what he has done with north korea, ok? why didn't obama do anything about chicago? the democrats major in the minors. these are minor issues. the big issues like north korea and the economy, more black people are working -- this is a big lie, when you tell the american people that illegal aliens only do agricultural work. that is a big lie. that is a big lie when you tell the american people that illegal aliens benefit the american economy. that is a lie. come to los angeles. we are 40% -- 40% of the homeless people are lack americans. there are no illegal aliens who are homeless. 40%. they have been lying big on big

issues, the establishment media and the establishment politicians, forever. host: ok, kathleen in california. roy in california, a democrat. go ahead. caller: hello. i totally disagree with this young lady that called from los angeles, absolutely not. all, who is hiring the people here? 's statements, his constant lying -- host: who do you mean who is hiring the people? caller: the people who support trump. the rich people. if there were no jobs for these , they would not come here. ever since obama left, the illegal immigration was going down. that is nonsense. i am tired of black people always crying about they are not doing this for us and somebody

else is taking this from us. that is a bunch of crap. host: then let's stick to the question. what do you think about the impact of the president inaccurate statements? caller: normalizing lying in our society, the president of our country lies daily. if it is not in his self interests, it is a lie. he has done nothing for the good of the country. it is all about what is good for him. the lie about him not taking the salary. he is making more money in his businesses every time he goes to mar-a-lago. i am retired military, 22 years. he moves, you do not know the amount of logistics that go into that, taking all those people down there cost the government much, much money. he does not have to take a salary, it is all going to his company. host: tony in connecticut,

independent. what do you think? -- thankhink of her you for taking my call. i am glad you took my call today, because i do not understand trump supporters. does is lie onhe a constant basis. one, he says he is building a wall. how can he build a wall when congress is the one, congress, not the senate, congress itself is the one. amendment one of the constitution says congress shall ,e the one who gives the money and congress did not fund the wall that year. they built -- they gave him $1.9 million for that wall. he only got two things done, the supreme court and the tax cuts. ll the trump supporters

saying he is doing a good job, i do not know what you are smoking, but keep smoking it. if he is not lying to you, that young lady from arkansas who comes on tv at 2:00 in the afternoon who is the press reporter, she is lying to you. that is what i have to say. we will leave it there. the new york times notes this morning that a poll released this week by nbc news and a surveymonkey dachshund surveymonkey found -- surveymonkey concluded that most americans believe the president only tells the truth only some of the time or less, but even among republicans that question honesty,dent's most still support him. angrily, -- cted

stating that i am unhappy with my legal team on the russia case and will add another lawyer to help out. wrong. i am very happy with my lawyers. later,d resigned 11 days mr. cobb announced his resignation this week, and he will be replaced by mr. flood. ohio, a republican. hello. ginny, lancaster, ohio. republican. caller: hello, hello, hello. i do not know how i was going to start here, but i am a republican. obama, butote for you know what? i respected him. you know why? because he was the president. i think people should respect donald trump because he is the president. what he did with that stormy. i do not know why she is worried about her reputation. she does not have one. we have all done things in our

lives we regret. and i think donald trump is at the age now -- tell then why not just truth? as the wall street journal said, the president could have just told the truth about this whole thing. caller: maybe he was embarrassed. i don't know. you know what? most of your presidents have had affairs and all of your president have been married, except for buchanan, who was the 15th president, and i think he was gay. host: ok. caller: i think we should respect them. what my point is -- you know, people want something done in washington so he is doing it. he is getting rid of all these people and trying to clean up the white house and stuff, and everyone wants to blame him were everything. i have a -- the other day, is that donald trump's fault? should i blame him for that? host: you say he is cleaning up washington. what should he do about the cpa

director scott pruitt? the front page of the newspapers this morning, influence outsiders played a key role in cruets travel. his itinerary for a february trip to israel was remarkable for nepa administrator, including a stop at a controversial jewish settlement and an appearance at tel aviv university. one target was sheldon adelson, a major supporter of israel. the piece goes on to say that after taking office last year, pruitt drew up a list of at least a dozen countries he hoped tovisit and urged aides help him find official reasons to travel, according to four people familiar with the matter. pruitt enlisted well-connected friends and political allies to make the trip happen. what should the president do about the epa administrator? what, ii tell you

started reading about countries about a year and a half ago. we have 196 countries. used a serious protocol the cultures of the world, and i was reading about iran. talking about the war and all that. did you know back in the 1990's, even though we were not getting along with iran, the united states and iran joined forces to ,ttack the guerrillas in niger and did you know it -- know the host: are you going to answer the questions? what should the president do about the epa administrator? caller: they should investigate israel and ask why they sold the nuclear stuff in the first place. we will even there. ernest in pittsburgh, a democrat. hello there. caller: how are you doing?

good morning. my concern is people are listening to these lies. is the lies, he has to sit down with other countries and deal and whatever he does. countries are not going to want lying, to him if he is lying, lying. i know i would not want to deal with him. as far as republicans and democrats, we are all one human race. whatever happens to one happens to the other. with that i will let it go. ernest in pittsburgh, getting your thoughts on the president's conflicting statements and inaccurate remarks he has made. as we said, neil caputo of fox news and as we showed you at the top, went through many of them, called it a habit of the president and said at the end of the piece that the president is

keeping the swap alive in washington and that it stinks his ownof him, and words. the wall street journal says these inaccurate statements are problematic because americans might stop believing the president when we have a genuine crisis. we want to know from all of you, what do you think about this? what should be done? , asther news this morning we wait for more of your phone calls to come in, this is the office of the chaplain letter. the chaplain, father patrick conroy, has rescinded his resignation. this is what he wrote to the speaker of the house yesterday. as you know, by letter of april 15, i tendered my resignation as the position of the chaplain of the united states, effective may 24. at this time and on the advice of counsel, i hereby retract and rescinded that resignation for the reasons that follow. you neverile spoke with me in person or send

me a correspondence, your chief of staff johnson burke came to me and informed me that you are asking for my letter of resignation. i inquired as to whether or not it was for cause, and mr. berg mentioned dismissively that maybe it is time that we had a chaplain that was not a catholic. at that point, i thought i had little choice but to resign as my assumption was that you had the absolute prerogative and authority to end my term as house chaplain. the speaker of the house put out a statement last night, saying i have accepted father conroy's letter and decided that he will remain in his position as chaplain of the house. my original decision was made and what i believe to be the best interest of this institution. to be clear, that decision was based on my duty to ensure the house has, he wrote, the kind of pastoral services it deserves. it is my job as speaker to do what is best for this body, and i know this body is not well served by a protracted site over

such an important post. i intend to sit down with father conroy early next week so we can move forward for the good of the whole house. that is the latest on that. by the way, the chaplain of the year is paid $172,500 a and is supposed to arrange the opening prayer when the house is in session and offer pastoral roles to all members. let's go to mark in louisiana, independent. we are talking about conflicting statements from the president. what do you think the impact is? caller: i think it is bothersome for any president to have conflicting statements and stuff. that bothers me. i think president trump has had a problem with that, but i also have a problem with conflicting statements with the press. that andrewd mccarthy, the former u.s. attorney on fox, stating that

the amount of money that trump paid stormy daniels is way, way less than what the obama administration was fined for by the fec. he was showing all of those in allpaper about the fcc and of that stuff, but i did not hear you mention that at all. not a fault of you, but a fault of the media reporting that. nbc has to retract their statement yesterday about: having his phones tapped. thatee, we have statements are distracting and don't match up by the press, the president, the media, you know? it is very frustrating. that you all are frustrated with the president, but american people have also been frustrated with the press. why was that not mentioned about obama?

was fec violation, how has the press not brought up the amount of money was much greater that obama administrations were fine for, much larger amount. i do not understand why this was not reported. host: an interesting remark there. chase in maryland, independent. good morning to you. am calling on the democratic line. just,d like to point out the third caller from sterling, virginia, right on the money. what conservatives try to do, as you will continue to hear throughout the morning, is rationalized and normalize his argueor by continuing to that well, the entire establishment does it were all politicians do it or the press does it. that, to me, is just completely absurd, that they have gotten to this point where they are own morality -- their own morality,

idealism, and ethical beliefs now ride on the legitimacy and deliberate undermining that this gentleman in office is continuously for training -- portraying. you mentioned there was a fourth caller, i want to say, who talked about we need to get back to a moral compass and how people in the big west -- midwest have a certain morality. i find that very, very humorous in that you are painting your morality on a man who is, by all accounts, a moral in any way you want to say it. and you talk further more about the establishment not being , he has onlythful exacerbated the establishment. look at scott pruitt and others who are morally corrupt -- jared kushner, for example, and you continue to support these these

people that are in power. to rationalize it by saying that everybody is mad at the press and the press has it out for the job is to the press's hold the government accountable. if they are going to make mistakes, their job is to do diligence in their research and reporting, and they will retract , supposedly, their responses and the information that they provide to the people. point, i want to show you and our other viewers johnson carl, abc at the white house yesterday for the briefing. his exchange with white house press secretary sarah sanders. [video clip] >> when the president so often said things that turned out not to be true, when the president in the white house shows to what appears to be a blatant how cand for the truth, the american people trust or believe what is said here or by the president? the very best

information that we have at the time. i do that every single day and will continue to do that every day on this position. >> but when the story first happened, it came out, that ty , thewould be leaving president said fake news, it would not true. -- it was not true. he wanted to talk about the prisoners in north korea. he says the previous administration failed to get them out. they were taken prisoner while donald trump was president. obviously, the totally conflicting statements on the --ormy daniels thing these are statements that are just not true. >> when it comes to north korea, you can also look at otto warmbier, who was detained as part of the previous administration. that reflects the president of the comments that he made --'s comments that he made. when it comes to the last instance that you mentioned, as

mayor giuliani stated, this was not something that was initially known but later learned. we get the best information possible at the time, and we will continue to do that every single day. white house press secretary sarah sanders, in an exchange with jonathan karl. the impact of these conflicting statements from the president -- what do you think that is? that is our conversation with you this morning. very in kentucky, republican. go ahead. caller: thank you for having me on. conflicting statements, i don't really know what you're talking about. there is information put out by both the media, democratic party, that questions everything that is question every day. i think trump has got a little flak ine to throw some a betteryou to have

agenda for making america great again. host: did you see neil caputo and theht on fox different statements by the president, that he called were a habit of conflicting remarks? well, he has a country to run. i hate to tell you this, but sometimes you get your statements a little mixed up. maybe we should support this ,resident a little bit better like we did with the last, even obama. start supporting our president a little bit better in this country, and we voted for him and people voted for him, and what you lose, it is how the democratic party needs to face up. they are never going to get nothing done, and if they keep pushing impeachment and

everything, if we can't get bill clinton out of the white house for smoking cigars in the white what we cannot know do. that is dereliction of duty right there. host: jerry in kentucky, republican. here is neil caputo from his program last night, talking about the pattern with this president. it does not make you may never trump her, but listen to what he had to say. swamp can you drain the if you are the one that keeps muddying the waters? you didn't know about the payments to a port star until you did. you nothing about how your former lawyer handled this until it knowledge and today that you were the guy behind the retainer payment that took care of this. you insist that money from the campaign or campaign contributions played no role in this transaction. of that you are sure. ago, you couldrs not recall any of this. you seemed very sure.

i am not saying you are a liar, i am just having a devil of a time figuring out what news is fake. on a lot of stuff give me lots of pause, like the time you said the russians did not interfere in the 2016 election, until a lot of republicans had to remind you they did. you came back a month later and said well, i never said that russia did not meddle in the election, when you had a lot. none of this makes me a never it just makes me confused. like when you claim that your tax plan was the biggest in u.s. history, when it wasn't, or that it would cost you a fortune, when it is going to help make you a bigger fortune, or that your numbers are not bad relative to other presidents at this stage when they are actually worse than most presidents at this stage. that can change. what is weird is that the pattern does not. like the time you said rumors of rex tillerson stop archer at the state department were false

until they were not, or that you are former chief of staff writes previous was not going anywhere, until he was, -- reince priebus was not going anywhere, until he was. when you loved steve bannon until you did not. you are ford by jeff sessions until you started swearing at jeff sessions. you had your legal team locked in place until it wasn't. you denied reports you are thinking about firing robert mueller, even as you threaten getting involved in the justice department. none of this makes you evil, but i am sure you can understand why even your friends say these inconsistencies not make you look good or have anything to help you advance your policies, none of which -- many of which are good. --t: neil caputo on flocks on fox, going through his conflicting statements. we are wondering from you, what is the impact? it is on the front page of the new york times, wall street

journal, saying it is if americans stop believing him when there is a genuine crisis in this country. if you have not dialed in yet, we want to hear from you this morning. the washington times, their front page story is about the nra convention they are having in dallas, with the headline "nra members grow impatient with the gop." gun rights activists say they are disappointed with republicans in washington who promised to enact legislation, such as concealed carry reciprocity. the national rifle association is meeting this week in dallas, and the president will be going today to talk to all of them. that is around 1:45 p.m. eastern time, the nra convention in dallas. you can watch on c-span on c-span.org, or you can listen with the free c-span radio app. also in this and are a gathering, the wall street journal -- nra set to gather,

counter on gun control. the convention cap one of the most prolific fundraising the organization's history. they raised almost $2.4 million, up from $779,000 in february, according to the sec filing. the march total was the highest month hall in at least a decade, according to them. attendance will not be finalized until sunday, but last year's event in atlanta drew 81,000 people, the second largest conference for the group. the largest annual meeting was held in houston in 2013, drawing in 86,000 people. that in the wall street journal this morning. back to our conversation with all of you, what do you think the impact is of conflicting statements by the president? steve in michigan, independent. caller: good morning. and i call you fakespan?

am i allowed to do that? host: why? caller: a number of reasons. youttle over two years ago, had mark davis, a committee about the water in flint. he was on your program, and said the obama epa lied to the mayor of flint. the obama epa people lives to the governor of michigan -- lied to the governor of michigan. the obama epa -- about the lid, and you never said anything about that? you brought in the obama epa many times, and obama lies 16.3 times a day about all the facts and obamacare, which you guys still don't believe he lied. if you believe the timeline in regard to what the president was ohening about is when c initially made the payments, trump did not know anything

about it. i do not know the timeline in regard to win, but you have to take the timeline in fact. because it sound like between the democrats and the media and is what i call you now. there are a number of other reasons i could call you that, because you lie enough, like goble told himmler, and everyone would believe it. hitler.ls told and everyone would believe it. host: it sounds like we had a guest that did say that. caller: he was there two years ago. host: and he made those statements. so he was a guess. -- guess. caller: -- guest. caller: i do not know if you coordinate on c-span two and three, but you say things on

c-span that contradict things on c-span two. do you have any connection with them? host: of course, there is an editorial team that makes decisions about what we are going to cover, and of course we have a programming team that decides what is going to air when on c-span, c-span2, c-span3, and c-span2 is primarily dedicated to books and the senate, history. we do history on c-span3, and a lot of hearings and events that are happening in washington dc on c-span3 when the house and the senate are in. caller: one of the things i am about, like on c-span2 last year , they came with social security , they came to the conclusion, the people -- i am trying to recover the name of the people that figured it out -- they said were verynd they careful on c-span2, they said social security will be depleted

if nothing is done. you have all of these callers calling up, don't touch social security. if you don't touch social security and do something, good or bad, it is going to be completed. host: so what you are talking about is people that we have on this program or event that we cover, with people had that have different opinions. i guess, people might have opinions that conflict with someone else's opinion. you ae try to do is show balanced presentation, as best as we can, of different viewpoints and you can decide what you believe and what you think is the truth. where does your ideology like? --lie? we want that. we want to show you different viewpoints. that is the point of this program, that people of different viewpoints get to call in and give us their perspective on an issue we are discussing today that washington is debating. you get to call in and let the

decision-makers and policymakers whatwhat you think -- hear you think. one of the big hearings we are covering next week is with the president's nominee for the cia, gina haspel. the washington times this morning, which has the headline the shadowses out o for public spite. " 9:30 onring is at and you can also find it on the free c-span radio app. gina haspel faces a contentious hearing next week before the somettee over questions on of the agency's most controversial policies of the post-9/11 era program -- era. the one-time covert officer will be in entirely new territory when the tv lights clicked on and she finds herself publicly debating the morality of tactics

say her defenders helped prevent another major terrorist attack on u.s. soil. let's hear from kathleen in pasadena, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think you all do a great job, especially in comparison to some of the other so-called news shows. isuess the question is hardly feel about the president's constant lying? i do not know why we don't not call it for what it is. a liar and does not know the truth, and is treating the presidency as if it is a reality show. i have a really hard time with people who are giving him a pass and not holding him accountable for the lies that he tells.

yes, have all presidents told lies? absolutely. have presidents told lies at the rate this president is telling lies? absolutely not. and they would not have gotten the past that this president has. i think that other leaders in the world are having problems trusting him, trusting that what he says he is going to do is what he is going to do. that gentleman from germantown was very articulate, and i second everything that gentleman said. i am just so confused as to why people think that this man is a good president. marianne, a republican in port st. lucie, florida. your turn. caller: hi. i was listening to that last caller, and i will tell her why i support trump. had twoi only

alternatives. hillary lying clinton and president trump. who are you going to vote for? if you think about a liar, hillary clinton's and all the lies she talked about, benghazi and her husband and whitewater, it goes on and on. talk about a liar. that is the liar that i had, to take a choice -- clinton or trump. it is just that simple. so i am proud of president trump right now. he is standing up for the american people, and i think -- who can't lie? this is ridiculous. to me, it is the media. it is their new let's get trump on his lies. this is his new mantra. we hear this for weeks now. lied, he lied. first it was russia, russia, russia, now it is he lies, lies,

lies. us americans that voted for trump see right through all of this crap. i like the caller who called you fakespan. that was really cool. sometimes you read too many liberal newspapers, the washington post, wall street journal, all of them are liberal rags. they are not giving you the truth. they spin everything on the negative side of trump. i am sick of it. i'm an american -- what do you read? if you are conservative, what conservative publications do you read? caller: i read everything, everything. mostly online too, but the new york times has been out for trump since the beginning. you have to know who owns the new york times or the wall street journal, or the washington post. ers.e are never trump

everything is about a negative. so negative, negative, negative, negative. i think the american people are just sick of it all. host: mike in fairfax, virginia, independent. hello. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. .ou folks are doing a great job keep doing your great work. believe all, i don't that when someone calls you fake that you need to go about -- nding yourself, because i have a couple of observations i want to make. all, in terms of --

host: in terms of what? we are losing you here, apologies. want to get two quick headlines and before we wrap up this conversation. in the world section of the washington post, do economic worries have kim jong-un fretting? we know that he mentioned the economy 28 times, and goes on to say the data released by the chinese customs department show that china imported only $12 to northorth of goods korea in march, down 89% from the previous year, and exported only $143 million, half as much as in march 2017. the economic pinch is almost certainly why kim jong-un is suddenly so eager to talk to the traveling to, beijing in march and crossing

the demilitarized own to meet with president moon last week, as we talked about on the washington journal. and finally, that poison attack in london of the double russian spy agent, the quantity, according to the director of the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons, arranged of a quarter less of a cup to a half a cup of liquid, is significantly larger than the amount that would be created in a laboratory for research purposes, meaning it was almost certainly created as a weapon. the substance was applied to the door of the double agents home and seeps through their skin over several hours, rendering them unconscious after they left a restaurant in central salisbury. you that in the new york times this morning. robert in massachusetts, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. c-span, you do a great job. forget what that guy from michigan said. he is uneducated.

live, he live -- lied, he lied, he lied. what really bothers me with donald trump is his doctors, his mental capacity is not stable. he had his first dr. write the letter himself and gave it to his doctor. doctor probably did this same thing. we don't know what cap of medication this man is on. he sounds like a pathological liar. he sounds like he has attention deficit disorder. he called kim jong-un a rocket man. peopleacter assassinate on national tv. host: what does that mean for america and the presidency? afraid ofam very amanda has the mind of the 2-year-old. againsteenager tweets

another teenager in high school and then they tweet back until somebody gets hurt, someone commits suicide, this guy is a danger to society. i know when someone is a manic depressive. i work at the state hospital. we need to find out what is his medical condition. host: we will leave it there. roberts opinion in massachusetts. when we come back in former aclu president nadine strossen discusses her book "hate: why we should resist it with free speech, not censorship" and later on conservative commentator david horowitz discusses the ninth and final volume of this black book of the american left series called "ruling ideas." that is coming up. we will be right back. ♪

>> this weekend, we take you to tyler, texas with the help of our usa cable partners to explore tyler's literary scene. on booktv, author robert stark book onses his former senator bill ratliff. >> everything he did in the senate was in problem-solving mode. how do we make this better? he did that without ideology getting in the way. he did that without partisanship getting in the way. that made him greatly loved in austin. parties, he was a person people could work with. >> on sunday at 2:00 p.m.

eastern on american history tv, we visit with bobby evans, former engineer for the tyler district texas department of transportation and the father of the adopt a highway program. tok 1984, we took a trip south dakota, and i have to give a speech to the civics club. speech, ion of that said, i challenge you to adopt a highway to get rid of the obscenity of litter. of course, that was just part of my speech. i did not expect anybody to jump up and do anything. the more i thought about that, that might be something we could try. >> then we will visit the smith county historical society to hear about the history of race at robert e lee high school. >> the school board, all white, decided to name the school robert e lee high school. know, the white community would say this is just to honor

our past and history. tyler has a rich history enacted with the confederacy, but in the black community this is very much seen as a thumb in their eye and a gesture of defiance. >> watch c-span cities tour in andr, texas, on booktv sunday at 2:00 p.m. on american history tv on c-span3. working with our cable affiliates as we explore america. >> "washington journal" continues. host: at our table this morning, dean strossen, former desk nadine strossen, former aclu president and author of this book "hate: why we should resist it with free speech, not censorship." what is hate speech?

guest: there is no specific definition that the supreme court has ever validated. the supreme court has consistently said we may never suppress speech merely because some people, even the overwhelming majority of people, believe its message to be hateful. last summer, the supreme court upheld the right of an american rock musician to choose what many people saw as a he speech term as the name of his fans, namely the slants. it is up to us as a society to hatefule what speech is and we choose to ignore and which we choose to listen to. i need to point out that speech with a people message along with any other -- hateful message along with any other speech in

context may be punished and suppressed when it directly causes a specific, eminent, serious harm that cannot be converted through any other measures such as law enforcement. a good measure would be a genuine threat or intentional incitement of eminent violence or targeted harassment. host: is there a legal case? guest: there are many legal cases that would illustrate each of us. here in washington, d.c., on may 1 of last year, we had the issue of a genuine threat using a full expression on the campus of american university. electedad been as the first african-american student body president, and there were a series of bananas and nooses that were displayed around campus, some of which had the initials of her sorority on them, a predominantly african-american sorority.

that certainly satisfies the standard of not only a genuine threat intended to instill a reasonable fear that she would, and perhaps other african-american sorority members among others, might be subject to an attack. we do have a legally recognized concept of a hate crime. that is when you take something that is already a crime such as an assault or threats, and the victim is singled out on the religion,ace, gender, and so forth. that can be subject to greater punishment on the theory that it causes more harm to the individual and society. drawsk our law inappropriate, common sense line. when we hate the idea, we have to respond with more speech, antidiscrimination laws, enforcing and i hate crime laws. direct harmactual

caused by the speech, it can and should be punished. host: you write that service confirmed that most american adults do not know much about the first amendment, let alone how the supreme court has interpreted and applied it. many proponents of any constitutionally protected a speech are familiar with even the bedrock president of the first amendment. guest: we hear so many calls on college campuses today to treat with a call while speech the same -- violent speech the same as other kinds of violence. i do not mean to single out students because people in this country throughout my lifetime have showed a lack of familiarity and support for speech. special --he more both more special than other

kinds of conduct and less directly dangerous than other kinds of conduct. why is it special? for so many reasons it allows us to express our thoughts, explore our thoughts, convey our emotions. it also allows us as citizens of the democratic republic to exercise our responsibilities as citizens. it is essential for the pursuit of truth, artistic expression, and to promote tolerance. on the other hand, while sticks and stones may break my bones, words do hurt. we have all been hurt by words. by havingspeech, some our hearts broken, but the hurt is indirect. it has to go through the intermediary function of our mind. psychologists and activists,

many people say we can rise above the slings and arrows of hate speech by having our own sense of the committee and self-confidence, and we can hurte it and not let it us. host: why not censorship? what is the danger? is there any situation where censorship should happen? guest: this seems common sense, if words are dangerous, of course they should be censored. it turns out that in practice it is at best an effective and at worst counterproductive. if you look at many comparable countries around the world that do censor what they find has a speech, usually speech that is disparaging word meaning on the basis of race and religion and so forth, those are inherently subjective concepts. they give enormous discretion to the authorities.

exercisedetion is not in a way that is friendly to critics of the government, dissidents, members of minority groups and advocates of minority group rights. before the u.s. supreme court strongly protected free speech in this country, lost suppressing he speech and others were used disproportionately to censor any crusader for civil reform including abolitionists, women's rights activists, activists for reproductive rights. it is not surprising that the power would be used to promote the status quo rather than help dismantle existing power structures. host: democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. we will go to harold in new jersey, republican.

caller: good morning. guest: good morning. 95-year-old a veteran of world war ii, served in the 104th infantry division. we had 9000 casualties. you so happy to talk to because i like to talk about our gaveing documents, which us life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. obamaght years, president trying to take away life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness from all of our people. , ands so sad what he did he used all the power of the federal government to destroy his enemies. that, obviously, for example, the ones he hated the most were the ones who were speaking out,

the tea party. the tea party essentially went back to our original founding. i am so interested in having you for anybody else talk about our founding documents and why today we do not refer to them -- them. president obama also try to destroy the constitution. what he did was executive privilege, and whatever he did, he said himself, i have a telephone, and i will do whatever i want. then he used whatever he called it to take away all the rights. host: let's go back to your point. guest: thanks so much for having defended not only our national security in a physical sense but also our national security in

terms of our ideals, our founding ideals as reflected in the constitution. i know that all members of the armed services taken oath or affirmation to uphold the constitution. that makes our military unique. else in the world they pledge allegiance to a particular government or official. ere our armed services taken oath to an ideal. aclu,f the reason why the of which i'm still very active, never supports or opposes any candidate or official is because support for or opposition to civil liberties and constitutional principles cuts across ideological lines.

every president, including president obama and president trump, take some actions that are consistent with the constitution and some that are inconsistent. we should constantly monitor and exercise our free speech rights to the size or praise as is praise ascriticize or is wanted. in terms of hate speech, there is no precise concept recognized in the law, but i will use it to me hate that is used to convey hateful or discriminatory ideas. was excellent on that issue. as a target of hate speech himself and as a constitutional law professor, i think his words on that subject warrant special weight. he repeatedly said that the most effective and principled way to respond to hate speech is through more speech.

memberscularly exhorted of minority groups, including minority students, for example he gave a commencement address at howard university at the end of his presidency, and he said it is especially important if you are advocating for racial justice or any other kind of social justice not to seek to silence the haters because that is simply going to gain more attention and sympathy for them, but you have to learn to raise your own voices. that is what the civil rights activists did. they brought us a lot of progress. we still have a lot of estimate. it is going to be made through more speech, not less. carolinaol, south democrat. you are on the air. said -- ur guest caller: your guests and a lot of what i was going to say.

president obama got raked over the coals from day one. the whole birther arguments and that obama was not a citizen of the country, which to me is hate speech, if it is that enough it others news on fox and right-wing outlets, and michelle obama was trash for wearing a sleeveless dress, and she is somehow put out there as shameful when the current first lady has been a stripper and model. i saw photos of her. host: your point? caller: where does hate speech or imagery that is put out there in the media and then repeated enough, and what point does that become fake news, and how does that affect the american psyche? guest: those are excellent points. what you underscore is the

apparent subjectivity -- inhere nt subjectivity in what is hate speech. many people have argued in this country and overseas that so-called fake news should be treated as hate speech. i applaud you and others in raising your voice is to criticize what you considered to be fake news or wrongful or erroneous opinions. that is what your first amendment rights are for. the danger would be in creating laws that allow a government official to wield that enormous power to decide at some fake news consists of hate speech and therefore should be censored. in european countries that enforce hate speech laws, shockingly to me, many statements have been punished and even subjected to criminal

penalties even though they are offered by politicians, candidates, even elected officials, and they are not targeting specific individuals. they are making general policy statements, which are seen to convey hateful views. think about how that would apply in this country when we have such fiercely contested debates about such sensitive policy issues as race and gender and immigration. many general statements that are made by candidates left, right, and center might be seen by particular people as fake news and hate speech. i think most of us would strongly resist the idea that whoever holds the reins of power at that moment gets to press the censorship on. host: we will go to maryland. james is a republican. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say

something about the american university -- not the american university, but some of the students using bananas and a noose and why you would consider that a threat. it is not articulate enough to be considered a threat. it is not saying we would do such and such to you. it is just imagery. it is nothing else. the fact that one group of people find that offensive should not be any reason to consider it a threat. guest: that is an excellent point and absolutely correct that the mere fact that somebody or even many people subjectively consider something to be offensive or threatening is not enough to satisfy the legal standard. the term true threat or genuine threat because the legal concept is quite strict, appropriately, and i wanted to distinguish it from the way we

loosely use the word threat in everyday speech. here is the legal standard. i hope we will agree on that. then we can talk about whether it is satisfied by the facts in the american university case. the legal standard is any expression where the speaker means to instill a reasonable fear, reasonable is an objective standard. a reasonable person. not whether any particular person subjectively feels the fear. what a reasonable person in the position of somebody who sees that expression reasonably fear some kind of violence? as to the question of whether nonverbal expression is considered speech or in this case on protected speech, the answer has consistently been yes. that is why burning the american flag has been considered something that triggers -- that

has sufficient expressive content that it triggers first amendment protection. band, displaying a sign. you get asked this question -- question, if you are an african-american on american university's campus, if you were a member of that sorority, and you are aware of the historic significance of n ooses in this country, would you consider that -- would you be reasonably fear of being attacked? let me give you a dramatic example of the movie the godfather. somebody wakes up, and there is a horse's head in his bed. it is not saying you are going to be killed in so many words, but i think the majority of us

would see that as even a more dramatic and compelling expression of precisely that message. host: why did you use the example of wearing an arm band? guest: that relates to a historically important supreme court decision to the rights of students and teachers, which are in debate today. pinker versus des moines school district in 1989, and aclu case, in which the supreme court upheld the rights of teachers to to protestck armband the vietnam war. the antiwar position was extremely controversial in that part of the country especially, many students and faculty members had brothers and sisters, fathers

who were serving in vietnam and who had even been killed. the school not unreasonably feared that there might be disruption and even violence as a result of students wearing this armband, and yet the supreme court said that the mere speculative fear that there might be violence is not enough. it pretty much articulated the tried and true test that i have mentioned before. the government cannot suppress the speech unless the government can show that it is directly going to imminently cause harm and no other measures suggests will safety officers can prevent that harm. the court said that test was not satisfied in that case. host: for those of you interested in that case, it is part of our landmark cases series. we are in volume two. the season is almost over.

we have two more programming episodes coming up. they happen at 9:00 p.m. eastern. you can watch the different cases online that we have delved into in this second series, and one of them being the tinker case. mary beth tinker was our guest for the program. we also interviewed her brother. landmark cases, volume two, you can watch on monday night. guest: it is a fabulous show. i had the honor to be the guests to discuss another landmark case a couple weeks ago which is relevant to the topic today. host:a which one was that? guest: brandenburg v. ohio in which the supreme court unanimously first recognized this test that i have been talking about, that speech could

only be suppressed if the government can show direct, intentional, likely harm that is going to occur imminently. host: we will go to aaron in indiana. thank you for waiting. you are on the air. caller: thank you. in the time that i have been callers beforeo me more or less address my question. i want to thank c-span and our guest. you have excellent guests. ms. strossen, what is the future of free speech? i like to think that i tried to resist censorship with my free speech every day. i'm not a policy maker, and i guess all of us who are not policymakers daily feel ourselves being boxed in more and more by lawmakers every day. how do we really, effectively defend free speech in this country?

guest: thank you so much for not only asking that question, which is the major reason i wrote the book, what we should do, what we can do to resist not only hatred but also censorship and violence and the other negative afflictions in our society. you have already answered that question yourself because you said that you are raising your voice everyday. you are certainly doing that by calling into c-span. you are certainly doing that by asking me the question that you did. in this country, i am going to hold up my cato institute edition of the u.s. constitution , the constitution starts with people." "we the we the people are the governors of this country.

we hold ultimate political power. those we elect are accountable to us. if we take freedom of speech for seriously and we object to measures our elected officials are taking or candidates are advocating that we believe are inconsistent with freedom of speech, that should be a very serious issue that propels us either to lobby them, advocate to them to change their positions, or to vote against them. the, many years ago, one of first serious scholars of the first amendment, a harvard law professor named zechariah chafee said, in the long run in this country, we will have just as much freedom of speech as people want. but he meant by that is that

those who are accountable to us will enforce freedom of speech if they feel that pressure from their constituents, and will not be supported of freedom of speech if their constituents show apathy. that even comes through in who is appointed to the supreme court. those are nominated by the president and either ratified by the senate or not. if we take freedom of speech is a serious issue, that we don't want the president to nominate or confirm judges who do not have a record of supporting free speech, we can make our voices heard, and they will have an influence. thank you for continuing to do that. york,velma in new independent caller. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call.

-- like that he speech idea, that the terms and words used are, even in my family -- i came from a family of a multiplayer ground -- mu divisiveness, in our family, the way our is using, our leader divisiveness, -- i think the rhetoric he is using is so hateful and dangers to our country, you know, that -- i don't even -- the idea that he shouldn't be there as a leader. i think he should be impeached because he is making it worse for the whole fabric of the country and dividing families with the way his rhetoric is. host: thank you. guest: you are certainly raising

possible -- what would be a plau sible remedy under the constitution. members of the senate and the house have the power to impeach and eventually convict for impeachment. the constitutional standard is high crimes and misdemeanors. there is very little information about what would rise to that standard. it is basically as congressman gerald ford said many years ago, it is whatever we who wield political power consider it to be. i hope you do not support what many european and other european countries that have hate speech allow criminal prosecution against a politician

because you and many others believe the ideas to be hateful, especially when the ideas are addressing critically important public policy issues. i say that not only as a matter of principle but also as a matter of preserving her democracy and promoting equality. if somebody who is running for or holding political office harbors hateful ideas, isn't it critically important for us to know that? if we had censorship laws, those kinds of ideas would most likely be self censored or put in sugarcoated terms so they could of a prosecution. -- evade prosecution. that is what has been shown to happen in many european countries. ofher than the crude forms

hate speech, you have much more racism so those ideas actually spread rather than being countered. i will not speak for myself, let me quote barack obama and many other political activists left, right, and center, and i'm very happy to say that my book was endorsed people across the ideological spectrum because this is something for all of us that care about individual rights and equality and democracy should be on the same page. we have to deal with these issues through raising her own voices, through open and honest debate where people who have hateful ideas can voice them, which makes it easier for the rest of us to respond to them and refute them. if you have a broad perspective,

you will see the counter speech against hateful statements of president trump and others has strongly drowned out that hate speech. we saw that in the aftermath of charlottesville very dramatically where left, right, and center top politicians with the sole exception of trump at the beginning at least were strongly against those views. we had many top business executives likewise. a couple advisory business councils to be president disbanded because they so strongly felt he had not strongly enough criticized the hateful speech. it is a more effective way to deal with the underlying problem. host: patricia in minneapolis, a republican. caller: good morning. i have a couple of things. it will take less than a minute. nadine mentioned the godfather

and a severed horse had. -- head. i wonder what she thinks about kathy griffin and she held up a severed head of president trump. i wonder what does she think about all of the liberal colleges, universities that disallow conservative speech. something for c-span, c-span censors, and it does it by focusing every day almost exclusively on negative stories and excludes any positive stories, just about, regarding president trump. thing, president trump did not express any he speech regarding charlottesville. he simply said that there were people there that were not nazis, that there were also

people there that were protesting that were decent people. hate speech iss lying, and c-span lies every day when they say that they are fair and balanced. they are not. just look at their programming, almost 100% negative on trump. guest: thank you. it was cathy right? host: patricia. guest: patricia. you are from my hometown. let me address what you said about charlottesville. please accept my apology if you thought i was taking that position. no, no, no. i was trying to illustrate that many people have accused him of hate speech. and if people disagree with that

assessment. to me that illustrates the underlying problem that no two of us can possibly agree on what is an inherently subjective concept, especially when we're talking about the very fraught area of public and political debate about such contentious has race.our society many people did complain that trump was not sufficiently condemnatory of the hate speech of others. i am not pretending to endorse either side substantively by gesture of pete that there is really room -- but just to repeat that there is really room for debate on those issues and that we should continue to debate them rather than to give the government the power to decide them.

that is exactly what has happened in other countries. these hate speech laws become a tool for those in power to suppress their political opponents. made, other points they i think the next most important one is the concern about conservative speakers on college campuses being disproportionately suppressed. i know that a lot of the coverage of the media has focused on a few high-profile incidents. i have to say, it is conservative media that do tend to focus on those examples of conservative speakers being shouted down or subject to violent attacks, but there are

counterexamples where people with liberal views are being suppressed on campus. doneevidence -- i have not a study myself, but i have read studies that others have done -- some evidence that conservative media do not give equal time to those incidents. in the last couple weeks, there was a female muslim liberal professor at a california state university campus who tweeted some negative commentary about barbara bush shortly after she learned that barbara bush had died. she accused her of being a racist and other negative statements, and that led to a storm of protests and a huge amount of pressure on the leadership of her university to take some disciplinary action. an investigation was initiated into her statement even though there was no dispute that this

was her personal twitter account , had absolutely nothing to do with her responsibilities on campus. clearly protected by the same kind of first amendment principles that were recognized in the tinker case we discussed earlier. earlier, and i have not had time to fact check it, so i am not endorsing it, but i recommend it to your atention, which had done systematic study of the censorship incidents on campus, and they concluded that overall it is liberal you must rather than conservatives that are being suppressed. i say it does not matter. no viewpoint should be suppressed demand because of disagreement with its ideas. that is a bedrock principle of the first amendment, and it is especially important to be of on college campuses. host: her last point.

kathy griffith. guest: certainly holding up the severed head could be seen to be offensive, and i think that was the main criticism. it would not satisfy the true threat standard. i don't think donald trump would fear that shele or her viewers are going to sever his head or physically attacked him in any way. there was a case of most exactly on point during the vietnam era where an african-american man was about to be drafted to fight in vietnam, and he said if they , theget a gun in my hands first man i am going to get in lbj,ze is lb -- sights is referring to lyndon baines johnson. he went on to say he is not going to make me kill my black brothers over there. he was clearly making a political statement, a statement

about his views on racial justice, his views on the vietnam war. the supreme court said that is hyperbole. it is going overboard to make a political point about public affairs policy issues in a particularly dramatic way. it is not a punishable threat. the same would be true of kathy griffith. is "hate: why we should resist it with free speech, not censorship" and we are to take a break. when we come back, we will open up the phone lines. we will be in open phones until the top of the hour. you can weigh in on any public policy or political issue. at that point, david horowitz will be discussing his book "ruling ideas." that conversation coming up.

we will be right back. >> c-span, where history unfold daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c., and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> monday on landmark cases, a case on capital punishment, greg the georgia -- v. georgia. challenged his death sentence. the supreme court ruled against him establish stricter guidelines for states wishing to impose the death penalty. our guests to discuss this

landmark case, one of the nations top capital punishment legal scholars and a professor at harvard law school. she has argued against the death penalty in front of the supreme court. the legal director of the criminal justice foundation, advocating in favor of capital punishment and a more swift moving criminal justice system. cases monday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. join the conversation. landmarkcases. we have the landmark cases theanion book, a link to interactive constitution, and the landmark cases podcasts at c-span.org/landmarkcases. "washington journal" continues. host: we are back in open phones

until the top of the hour. any political or public policy issue that is on your mind, call in. we will have a conversation. we will begin with the economy. the unemployment rate fell to 3.9%. andded 164,000. economists surveyed by reuters expected a roll growth of 192000 and the jobless rate to drop to 4.0%. these numbers in april are an 18 year low. the official jobs tally showed an increase of an upwardly revised 135,000 in march. stock market futures moved lower following the race while -- release while government bond yields moved up.

it is a bit off the pace from the previous month. the average work week was unchanged at about 34 hours. unemployment includes discouraged workers and those holding part-time positions for economic reasons fell to 7.8%, the lowest since july 2001. the drop in the unemployment rate came amid another decline in the labor force participation rate to 62.8%, the lowest on january. desk since january. good news on the economy. you can talk about tax reform, which the president will be talking about this saturday when he travels to cleveland to talk about the tax reform bill the republicans passed in december. wilbur in georgia, democrat line. you are hanging on the line from the previous guest. guest: yes, my name is raymond. host: ok. guest: yes, i am a retired -- caller: yes, i'm a retired

sergeant from the military. war that i fear of ands of today for racism police brutality. n,lot of people that called i they are not faced with the things i have faced in my short life standard when i was in the military, -- lifespan. when i was in the military, and we were headed to desert shield, desert storm, i was a noncommissioned officer for racism inurces and the company. i had to battle that issue prior to going into iraq. when people call in and say and-speech is no big deal, it is ok, and it doesn't hurt anyone, you have to be careful what you say and do day to day. i was inng men when

the military, they came from the society where they had all these issues. when people say free-speech is protected, that is fine, but you have to be mindful of what you say and do day today. my biggest problem while i was in the military, i was never afraid to go to war. my biggest concern was the racism issue we had constantly in the ranks, and now that i'm of the, when i step out door every day, i have to be concerned about how i'm going to be confused with somebody that is a criminal week i am an african american. -- because i am an african american. when people call in and say freedom of speech is protected, which is true, but you still need to be careful what you say and do. host: we heard your point. we will go to mike in texas. what is on your mind? nadine was still

there. she should have had an hour segment. it is interesting that we talked about free speech, hate speech, whatever, but we don't allow speech, but more speech is good. the tea party rallies, i would coverede way the media the tea party rallies was interesting. the tea party rallies were covered in the media by zooming in on signs that they found objectionable, which were often never talking to the people around them. they were effectively plants trying to portray everyone around them as racists. they would never interview those people. they would zoom in on those signs and change the entire theme of the event. louis farrakhan, there was a picture of him taken with barack obama in 2007, but we never saw it until this past couple months.

how interesting is that? college campuses. here is another one. kanye west says some things that black people should be able to think outside the box. they don't have to be enslaved to one particular party. he is not articulate about it. he says something that is outside of the theme of the black plantation in the inner cities, and he is roasted. even a congresswoman from l.a. slams him as the mentally unstable -- as being mentally unstable. i would argue it is the media, that is where foundation is and where people like chuck todd get to determine and define what hate speech is. it is not the mainstream americans. it is the media. the media are definitely dominated by the left because you can line up all the nbc's and cnn's, and there are more of

those that fox news. host: ok. walter is in new jersey, independent. you are on the air. caller: how are you doing? we must be vigilant of any strain of totalitarian thought that comes about from our leaders, whether they are on the left or the right. the way this man with his doctors, giving them a script, that is a playbook from the -- host: ok. we will go to constance, democrat. good morning to you. caller: good morning. i just love this. this is my favorite program every morning. i am in new york. i am a retired civil service. about him like it was my bible, the sunday real estate section in the new york times. mr. trump is proving himself the

art of the deal. it is the art of the deal. he himself, he started when he came down the escalator. he had 16 opponents, and all of them fell down before him, just like he belittles everybody. it is divide and conquer. he said himself he is a genius. he ran for the presidency and w on the first time. everybody is just falling for it. it is the art of the deal. he is proving the point. host: what do you mean by that? what do you mean? caller: what do you mean? host: what do you mean it is the art of the deal? caller: he wrote a book. the title of the book was "the art of the deal." he is proving his point. he doesn't have to pay for his jet setting across all of his

facilities being president. now we pay for his jets and all of his bills. he is playing the game brilliantly. host: ok. caller: the american people, it is about time we saw it for exactly what it is. host: all right. kathleen is next in oregon, republican. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i sat here thinking about our country. we the people. from the foundation of our country we decided in god we trust. people lie even when the truth will serve us better. honesty, open-mindedness are the watchword. god is large and in charge. help the people of the united states. who is lying? i watched many presidents not be 100% truthful. this country needs to know

wisdom and instruction to proceed with the understanding he who is without sin throw the first stone. that is out of proverbs. the power of the tongue has the power to bless and curse this country. free speech with the words of the bible. that is all i have. about charlie rose, 27 additional women, 14 of them from the news network say the veteran newsman sexually harassed them. the washington post investigated and found three cases over 30 years in which cnn managers were warned about his conduct at the network. and 13news employees worked with him said charlie rose harass them. the network was warned as early as 1986 and has recently as april of 2017.

ine's response was delivered a one sentence you now, your story is unfair and inaccurate. reporting this morning that california democrat time again yet has been making calls to several house democrats recently proclaimed his innocence in the sexual assault case. the congressman denied allegations that he sexually abused a 16 euro girl more than a decade ago -- 16-year-old girl more than a decade ago. sickened and distraught by these horrific allegations. his attorney said the allegations are 100% untrue. as is listed as john doe and the lawsuit, which was filed in los angeles county on friday, but he has told fellow house democrats he is the

defendant in the case. gail in cleveland, democrat. good morning. caller: hi. how are you? where do i start? it is so misleading to me about these unemployment rates they are talking about for black people, that they are the lowest they have been. if that is the case, we should all be booming. what they neglect to tell you is that black people, not only black people, but poor white people, are working to end three towoto make and sneak-- and three jobs to make ends meet. we are working harder than we have ever worked, and we are making less. host: you can go to the bureau

of labor statistics on their website and it into the numbers when they release their numbers at the end of every month. april has lowered to 3.9% overall. jobs added 164,000. let's go to dina in st. paul. independent. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: regarding the behavior, i worked with high school students before i became disabled. he was born with a certain type of denial until -- development of disability. behavior, he uses it all the time because he doesn't know any better, trust me, i am not giving us got any points for any reason. a have something called mentality, how we treat them is

important. this guy should have been trained and treated better when he was younger because his behavior -- you know, the problems we had, they told him you cannot do that and act like that, leave that alone. you work with these people. this is just party time. it has not been for probably 250 years. this is a party time over here. -- is not party time over here. the problem with his foreign-policy i thought somehow we would have enough people around him to give him the correct, honest, accurate information about what to do, and they are not there. we go to college and become the best we can be. not paying, they are their educators enough. they are doing what they can,

but somehow you have these huge tax breaks. fine and dandy. this people getting the tax breaks are not helping others. the population control, the lgbt people, that is population control. host: we're going to leave it there. follow up on a story last week, speaker paul ryan is letting the house chaplain keep his job after the priest rescinded his resignation. unusuald a highly dispute between the house priest.and the jesuit virginia,nd sterling, democrat. caller: good morning, good morn, greta. this is a sad state of affairs we are living in. people are attacking c-span. what do they want you to do? sweep all of the trump mess under the rug?

is that what they want? four people calling in, saying american people -- for people calling in, saying american people want this or that -- this is trump's fault. the guy is a con man. the stormy daniels thing, we all knew he was lying about it. we all knew. that is all i have to say. watch your social security and your medicaid be taken away, trump supporters. host: ok, lawrence in virginia, a democrat. we will take a short break. may come back, david horwitz will joining us -- will be joining us, discussing "ruling ideas." that is after the break. ♪ live sunday morning on 9058,

america in turmoil. the impacts of the vietnam war at home. while the war was fought in vietnam, student marches and acts of civil disobedience dominated u.s. headlines. joining us to talk about the target times -- about the triplet times is doug stanton. project with ken burns is a 10 part documentary of the vietnam war. 1958 -- america in journal"n "washington and "american history tv on c-span3 -- "american history tv" on c-span3. >> go to c-span.org/connect & up for emails. the program guide is a daily email with the most updated primetime schedule and upcoming live coverage.

word for word gives you the most interesting daily video highlights in their own words with no commentary. the booktv newsletter sent atkly isn't insider's look authors and books festival -- book festivals. visit c-span.org/connect & up today. today.sign up >> for nearly 20 years, in-depth besteatured the nation's nonfiction writers about my conversations about their books. we are featuring best-selling monthlywriters for our addition. join us sunday at noon a stern with david baldock she. fallen. -- his book is his other novels include endgame, absolute power, which became a major ocean picture,

and over 30 -- major motion picture, and over 30 other titles. during the program, we will take your phone calls, tweets, and facebook messages. our special series, it in depth -- fiction addiction with david baldacci on booktv on c-span2. ist: joining us from denver david hornets, who is the author of his ninth and final book, "ruling ideas -- the black book of the american left, volume ix ." for those who are not familiar with you and the series, can you explain your political conversion? was brought up communist, card-carrying. i was a leader of the new left in the 1960's.

the black panther party murdered my friend. the whole left supported it. the left succeeded in forcing america out of vietnam. the communists came in and slaughtered to one half-million people in indochina. there was not a single protest against it. that is why left the left. anti-american totalitarian movement. evil. it is easy not to be a leftist. host: why is it evil? guest: is hard for me to conceive how people -- it intends to set up a totalitarian state. they want to control everything. this book i wrote, "ruling ideas ," is about to ideas that have ruled western history for the last 200 years.

the first idea is the american idea, individual freedom and accountability. our country was founded by people fleeing religious persecution. they came from many countries. in our birth certificate, they proclaimed we are all children of one creator, equal in the eyes of our creator. therefore, equal in the eyes of our government. it means we do not judge people sexualr race and orientation and point of origin. we judge them on their merit. martin luther king wanted america to live up to its ideal, where we judge people by the content of their character, not the caller of their skin. the other idea is markets -- is a marxist, cultural idea. people know is it at -- people

know it as identity politics. it asked what you're caller is, what -- you're color is and -- your color is, what your identity is,a and judges you that way. how we judge charlie rose or any of these males is abstract. all we know is there is a mail on one side and an oppressed -- a male on one side in an oppressed people on the other side. franken is a -- al good example of the injustice of this ideology. he was a comedian and did these things. the ideological word sexism obliterates -- we say behavior is inappropriate, rude,

criminal if it is right. now, -- is rape. now, we have one word -- sexism. there is a guy who took pictures and film them. he seems to offended one subject was asleep. we do not know she was offended at the time or if she wanted to join -- be a hero of the #metoo movement. al franken lost a senate seat. one million people voted for him. what kind of country do you live in now where an accusation -- no trial, we do not have any of the details. i call itt totalitarian. the individual disappears. you judge people by their gender, race, and so forth. host: katrina -- progressive

katrina many google -- katrina wrote this about your identity postics in the washington moderns right to -- the republican party was born in reaction to the civil rights movement, consolidating a white sanctuary in the south while deploying race bait politics. president trump rises fears of immigrants and muslims. guest: these are lies. they are just lies about the republican party. the republican party voted in a higher percentage for the civil rights act. the democratic party is full of racist, right to this day -- racists, right to this day.

katrina supported the communists when the communists were going to the far left nation. it.e is nothing to host: what do you hope to accomplish by writing these nine books about the left? guest: if you read the book, you understand the left. you will understand the left is driven by hate, the largest hate group in america is the anti-trump a group. that is what the left is about. they will do anything to get their. -- get there. written the midst of a coup.

-- we are in the midst of a coup. where do you think the real investigation is -- the robert miller investigation is going in all of this -- robert mueller investigation is going in all of this? they want to remove him. the last time we had a resistance to a legitimately elected president was in pam lincoln. -- was abraham lincoln. one of my chapters is called america's second civil war. likell not be a civil war in 1861. the federal government is too powerful. wars a war, a political over who controls the federal government. the reason it is a civil war, the reason our politics are so ugly and polarized -- you go back to lincoln's day and you

cannot have a country, half slave, half free. halfannot have a country about individual rights, it accountability, getting people on the content of their character and the other half is racist, identity politics idea. starbucks inase in philadelphia. two large, is -- black men came into starbucks, were told by a smaller female, manager, they wanted to go to the bathroom. it is covering policy -- it is company policy you have to buy something to use the facility. guys guys the fight her -- deified her.

she called the police. it turned into a racist problem. the white is guilty and the before theinnocent facts are known. the left is responsible. host: how do you define the left? that is easy. 20 mean, how do you define the left? -- that is easy, how do you define the left? we had a black president for 56% ofears, elected by his supporters, his voters were white. there is not a black country in the world has elected a white president. there is not an asian country -- america is a miracle when it

comes to race relations. calling --tist it means he is the patriarch. he is not -- donald trump is not a racist. for 30 years, he was in public life. he was not known as a racist. host: are you a conservative? sure. founding the american -- these were political geniuses. this is the greatest country that ever existed. the most tolerant, inclusive, most equitable -- inclusive, equitable, and i want to conserve it. the democratic party has embraced black lives matter.

this is a violent, racist group. it has done policeman killed. it has embraced terrorists in the middle east. it was founded by three communists. they were members of communist organizations. the democratic party is pulling the high black lives matter, how is it possible? host: let's get to our calls. tim, democrat, hello. caller: let me be my tv. -- let me mute my tv. i have three points. first, i do not believe he is a left or right. there is either fact and non-fact. right now, what you call the right is accusing the left of exactly what the right is doing. we were the most liberal nation in the world and

we are a more liberal than conservative country. liberal progressive, moving forward, it is a fact. thee are certain parts of society that wants it. what matters? bad.ution is i hear things that are opinions that he say our fax. we are the most liberal form of government in the world when we were founded -- fact. the slavery was a horrible thing in this world and are still trying to defund it. people, wherees they come from, where may come -- from, what the caller of their skin is -- fact.

i do not care about trump's policies. i care about his character. character west have had as president of the united states. host: i will leave it there, so our guest can respond. go ahead. guest: i agree with one statement he made is that he is crazy. all of this other stuff is garbage. republicans are not racist. democrats are racist. attack you if you are white. democrats have embraced a racist organization. around thehis arms leadership of the democratic party. he is a raving lunatic, jew hating, america hating. members of the black caucus

counter around him. there is no republican comparable. republican -- republicans are not racist. s -- the only way they can get elected is scaring people. google is supporting a movement called equal justice initiative. a leader says slavery never ended. blacks are enslaved in america. blacks in america are privileged. they are a dominant force in our culture. anyone who listened to the 1950's or 1960's are struck by --e way the integration the multi-, the diversity of

phases. andhave interracial couples companies who do not want to lose customers do it. withca is the least racist a large minority population that has ever existed. to bring up slavery -- americans would be proud what they did with slavery. beastly system was evil. -- the slave system was evil. blacks were enslaved by other blacks in africa. america in its birth significant said, every creature of god has a right to liberty. within 87 years, slavery was abolished, thanks to the

sacrifice of life of the hundred 50,000 union shoulders and abraham -- union soldiers and in pam lincoln. this is a -- and abraham lincoln. this is an amazing country for black people. there are privileged blacks in the world. it is time to recognize that and take yes for an answer. instead, the democratic party want blacksl left - to feel alienated and persecuted. every instance where there has been an encounter with police, where something that happens, the police chief is black. in cleveland, in alice, a new orleans -- wherever you go -- in dallas, new orleans, wherever you go. host: let's go to to massachusetts. the only collusion we know

that took place is the hillary clinton and the clinton foundation over uranium one. that is the solution. republicans are lame in fighting this. caller: not to interrupt him, but america is hearing the canary in the coal mine. we have not sees marching all over the country. naziman said -- have marching all over the country. this man said the president is a patriot. mr. horwitz, hold on. you are a guest on our program. our callers are the guests. guest: this guy is calling me a racist. he called me a nazi.

the --re nazis on nazis on line. host: the caller said -- guest: you want a moment, there are 500 people in skeletal are insignificant. there is no -- in charlottesville are insignificant. there is no -- they had 11 democratic senators. i forget how many, 87 democratic congressman were in the ku klux klan. that is a movement you can be scared of. what i said about donald trump is you people call him a white nationalists because he is a patriarch. you are racist when you do that. donald trump is not a racist. it is so obvious. host: you are welcome to respond to the callers in a silver manner -- in a civil manner.

we expect the colors to ask you -- guest: to call me a nazi, it is not civil. you should stop it. you would have stopped him. if heuld've stopped him were calling a black person the n word. host: i did not hear him call you a nazi. that is not true at all, mr. horowitz. guest: he said if i say donald trump is not a nazi, then i am a nazi. host: you are welcome to respond you to are -- and i want respond. let's have a civil conversation about it. guest: you want stability, but you need to do it. if a caller called your guest a nazi, you need to stop him. host: let's go to drew, a

republican. that is absolute horrible, what the caller said here the left has hijacked this whole notion of what is and is not racism. we had a democratic senator in the ku klux klan. that was perfectly fine. we had obama tell people if they they their doctor, and could keep their doctor. we did a show about how we feel about donald trump being a liar. it is this couple of -- this is despicable. we have civil war you guys end up doing this. i hope it does not come to it. i am sick of my rights being trampled on. i am sick of turning on the tv and listening to journalists after journalists going on and on about trump when we have it years old about -- had eight

years of obama. i want to thank mr. horwitz. guest: thank you. we had obama betraying this country. he is the president to gave a path to nuclear weapons -- $200 billion in cash delivered on a pallet to a regime whose leaders chant death to america. may have killed thousands of americans with i-80's, who are supporting us thought -- with , who are-- with ieds supporting -- he has black skin privilege. he will not be touched by the media. he was a disaster.

about obama's lies. he lied about a lot of things. trump's lies are exaggerations. it was true when he said his funds were being tapped. it turned out to be true. s intelligenceica' agencies trying to prevent a candidate who was elected by the american people. the presidencies stopped him from being elected and undid him when he was elected. we are still in the midst of thi s. this is an attack on america, what is going on the democratic party's side. it is an attack on our system. you have to respect the voters. if you do not like the candidate, then you organize the next election. you do not sabotage your

presidency, which is what is going on now. we do not know what will happen with the koreans. pulled this off and north korea would give up their nuclear weapons, it is a political miracle. it would make every american safer by trying to secure our borders and making every american safer. he regenerated the economy. we have an economic boom. people have jobs. he is demonized. you cannot listen to these democrats. are demonizing him as a liar, racist, mussolini and, and racist. they said it about george bush, too. of course, ronald reagan when he was president. the democratic hearty the --

democratic party is sick and needs to be reformed. people still vote democratic. distance themselves from the left. host: we will go to jeff, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i read some of your stuff. i have to agree with you on some things. my question to you, in the case listenedyoung men -- i to you and you said two large african-americans who do not want to buy anything. and the lady called the police. biasave to admit there was on the part of the bar ista.

the police came in, but to coffees for the men, and left -- bought two coffees for the men, and left. you say we are divided. i do not think we are divided as much as you say we are. guest: the problem was not they did not want to buy anything, come in wanted to defy policy and use the restroom without buying anything. placementsome of the who can -- the policeman who came were black. the police chief is black. this is a normal screwup. people got to scared. people overreacted. it was not because they were black is what i am saying. it is -- it has been converted problem.acial

they are pulling people to train them on unconscious bias. who does not have unconscious bias about 100 million things? of course everybody has a prejudice one way or another. it is mind-boggling to me. starbucks barista is now suing starbucks and i hope she wins. whens targeted as a racist she was scared they were two large males the finer. host: we will gold to -- go to carol, a democrat. caller: good morning. let me tell this fall -- host: let's not call each other

names. let's try to have constructive praises him. -- constructive criticism. caller: let me tell you what i think about trump. he is the grand wizard of the clan and all of the people that support him go right along with him. host: why do you think that? that is your opinion. caller: because of the thing he has said. he has called black women bitches, sons of bitches. i am not a son of a bitch. i can tell you one thing. my grandmother told me, never trust a republican. the only good ones are dead. host: i will move on. republican -- you have to turn down your tv. let's go to dj, an independent. caller: good morning.

i have a comment and question for mr. horwitz. it is refreshing to hear someone come on who is talking for our president. degrades ourtantly president. it is upsetting to me. appreciate getting on and talking. as far as the starbucks situation, it is laughable. they tried to make it sound like they were there for an interview, a job. they are both in pajamas. that was ridiculous. way to make money and cause trouble. thanks are being on, i enjoyed your comments. for being on, enjoy your comments. host: dennis, a republican. caller: thank you, david

horwitz. i enjoyed listening to you. the black muslim religion -- people think of it as muslim because it has the word muslim and it. i think of it as the kkk. is toslims, like the kkk christianity on the other side. malcolm x. was murdered by black muslims shortly after he returned from a cup. -- from mecca. he was suspended from his recruiting activities because mohammed was getting jealous of the fact he was becoming more popular. he found the muslim religion was not what you have been taught through the black muslim religion. on have to do is go on their website. they have one page that makes it clear. theof the first thing in

precepts is they are against interracial marriage. they believe whites are evil. they want separate states. iny have -- black muslims -- detroit, probably 100 times more -- black muslims -- by definition, racist in detroit -- that group represented in charlottesville from a white supremacists standpoint. host: david, how do you know that? caller: the website. i read the autobiography of malcolm x. host: mr. haaretz, go ahead -- mr. horwitz, go ahead. guest: when he held the million man march, it hundred thousand blacks -- 800,000 blacks

followed him. this is much more than 500 idiots in charlottesville who defended a statue and got a permit. the violence came from the anti-leftist crowd. they came looking for a fight. these jerks gave them what they wanted. theres why trump said were good and bad people both sides. the problem is the distortion. one reason why trump got elected was the democratic attacks on trump were ridiculous. people say we have the videotape. it is clear what he said about mexicans at the border. there are a lot of drug dealers coming through, a lot of

criminals. hundreds of thousands in jail who got here illegally. if you do not have a border, you cannot screen people. not only for the criminality, but diseases. tuberculosis has wiped out as we have turned. there are drug-resistant diseases. we do not know where they are coming from. we have hundreds of thousands of people pouring across the borders illegally. trump is per trade as a racist wanting to protect americans -- is portrayed as a racist wanting to protect americans of all colors. there are a stack of people who are here illegally. -- accused by nancy pelosi of trying to make america white again. democrats are not liars, they

are vicious liars. they set up to destroyed people -- set out to destroy people. that is why they are losing ground in this country. that is why they have to stop and behave. host: eugene, a democrat. you are on the air. caller: thank you for taking my call. this man has -- host: i apologize, you have to turn the television down. otherwise, we get feedback and we cannot hear you. i have to move on. rachel in texas, independent. caller: i will tie you something. when i received -- will tell you something. when i received got in my life, nobody told me you are a republican.

it is when they say if you are a certain party, you believe in abortion. if you are a certain party, you do not believe in god. if you are not a republican, you will be gay. that stuff is crazy. i have been listening to this. guess who voted for abortion? guess who took the prayer out of school? republican supreme court estes because they outnumbered -- court justices because they outnumbered. they voted for the first amendment right. when they want to route people up, they are not far from taking prayer out of school. that is what the republicans did. areit there and say if you not republican, your kids will be day and have abortions. host: who says that? he has not said that. caller: i hear it on talk radio. i hear on fox news -- if you are

liberal with the gay issue and stuff, you will tell me it is not a republican kid, family that does not have the children? host: ok, miss their -- ok, mr. horwitz. guest: that is right. who doesnot a family not have black in-laws or hispanic in-laws or so forth. this is why the democrats will fail. we are integrated, multiracial, multiethnic country that has never been seen in the world before. better.ust know the here democrats0 they h -- democrats like what the lady said and they laugh. it is ridiculous. i support gay marriage. i support transgender people.

you know? democrats, they would call me a loon. it is terrible what happened to our political conversation in this country. t of: why is this the las your books? volumes tos nine tell you who the left is. these are cultural marxism. isx had an idea the world and -- into oppressed the working class voted for trump. we marxist model -- knew this in the 1960's because the hardhats were beating up leftist demonstrators.

leftists with university to avoid fighting in the vietnam war. they came up with this theory, cultural marxism. there is still the oppressed and oppressors, but it is by race, gender, sexual orientation. example,lieve -- for if there is a disparity in income, there are poor people in our inner cities. every inner city in america is 100% controlled by the democratic party and has been for 50 to 100 years. every injustice that is not teach the kids how to read and write in inner cities -- 100% democrats are responsible for. republicans are too polite to ever mention this.

that is why i called the democratic party the racist party. controlledans the inner cities, that is what they would be called. poor, your you are oppressed is -- you are oppressed is absurd. people are poor by choice. there are no fathers in the homes. 8% of the children in inner-city are born out of wedlock -- 80% of the children in inner cities are born out of wedlock. are abama said, if you black female in a single household you are more likely to be poor. you cannot -- people abuse drugs and alcohol. they are not going to do well. host: ok.

guest: the democratic party says it is a matter of racism in america. it is idiotic. institutional racism without -- there are plenty of liberal judges. the democratic party ran on this other myth. host: ok. guest: they are being paid $.23 under dollar for the same amount of work. if it were true, employers would fire all of their male employees, hire women, and split their profits 43%. it is not happen because it is not true. as hillary knew when she was spreading this lie during the maleign, in 1963, a dominated congress had equal pay for equal work act. it is illegal to pay women less. host: i apologize for jumping

in, but we are going to lose our connection with you in a minute. i want to thank you for coming on the program. book -- is the final the backbone of the american left. thank you. guest: thank you. host: we are going to take a short break. when we come back, we will open the phone lines. policiesn on public and political issues for the remainder of today's "washington journal." we will be right back with that conversation. ♪ >> this weekend on c-span, saturday night a 8:00 -- at 8:00 p.m., first amendment in the digital age. -- 8:30 p.m., first amendment in the digital age.

on booktv, c-span2, saturday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards -- after words -- chis hughes. -- seven of -- 7: sam houston state university professor brian matthew jordan on the 1864 civil war overland campaign. sunday at 11:00 a.m. eastern, and you monument at arlington for membersetery killed in the vietnam war. sunday on two and a -- on on the apollo eight

mission to the moon. >> i did not realize the major role the wives play. it was impossible to disregarded. it is what they wanted to talk about. all three believed without their wives, the group could have not pulled it off. daringit was the most and courageous space mission nasa had done. it was done quickly. everything was for the first time. these men left their wives at home who were supportive. they do not reveal to their husbands how much they were suffering and how terrifying they were. >> "q&a" sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span. >> "washington journal" continues. we are back in open phones for the remainder of today's

"washington journal." a republican in ohio. what is on your mind? caller: it does not matter, but i did not get in earlier. he does not want to listen to the others. trump is a media genius. the man who was talking before leftists andall democrats together while it isats accuse -- frustrating people have to do their own thinking. to listen to the other side. we can learn from other people. thank you. host: brian in michigan, independent. hello. caller: hello. thank you. i would like to comment on the fake news. when they have the hearings about fake news, i was

interested. thee was one story during entire election that was fake. was -- thand trump hitler ever was. it was one particular newscaster. i watch the news and ok, i will hear about this. during the hearings, all they talked about was facebook, twitter, and online bloggers. nothing about mainstream media. that was an aha moment. congress is covering for the media. the media covers for the congress. is that is not fake news, what is? on martin luther king day, i watch this show. your guest talked about how dr.

martin luther king, a baptist man of peace, would be involved in the black lives matter. etye.did not bat an journalistic integrity, that is try to read right -- to rewrite history. i do not understand. host: the go to alber -- we will go to albert. caller: thank you for c-span. it is the greatest program. i am a 100% disabled veteran who served for 30 years. i am also a democrat. i will be 84 soon. i do not like mr. horwitz defining who i am. he calls mr. trump a patriot. i served two years in vietnam. . served another three trips

i was exposed to agent orange for three and half years total. i do not, selfie patriot. -- not call myself a patriot. i served the constitution. it was his capacity as commander-in-chief he could give orders. i was not his lackey. i have a brain. i am able to consider both sides of those questions. i wish mr. horwitz have that capacity. he seems to not. for him to define other people when he does not seem to have the capacity to look into himself and to determine what he is as compared to all of the other people the news and journalists -- the first writers of history has given us. they put out fax. they do not put -- facts. they do not put out innuendo.

when the political side comes out and attacked and cause everything fake news, we are doing a disservice to our people of the united states. we are not teaching them critical thinking, to be a devil's advocate, to look at both sides, to understand, to be enlightened as our founding fathers. the federalist papers told us at least 15 times two the citizens right people in public office. i do not like to be defined as anything by him. i am none of the things he called me. as far as patriotism is concerned, you answer the call of your country. i did so during the korean conflict. host: ok, albert in washington, a democrat. sam is in florida, a republican. it is your turn. caller: that was a great interview. i am glad you were fair to him.

wear people ♪ know callow where people jew.e nazi when they are thank you. host: dan, a republican in florida. the president is about to leave washington to go to dallas. air force one is getting ready for him to board. he will go for the nra's conference. the president will be speaking to those gathering at 1:45 p.m. eastern time. coverage on c-span, c-span.org, and you can get the free c-span radio app. the washington times has a story about the conference. it has a picture of the members of the nra.

the wall street journal story on the convention says it caps on of the most prolific fundraising efforts. it raised almost $2.4 million, up from $779,000. the total was the highest hall in a decade. last year's gathering of the nra was in atlanta. drew 81,000 people. drew's drew 81,000 -- it 81,000 people. robert in kentucky, independent. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. my call is in response to his horwitz.- to mr.

he said mr. prescott was responsible for malcolm x's death. it is a slanderous statement. knows he hadamily nothing to do with welcome x's d -- with malcolm x's death. it -- the the sterman --rmishes with in the islam in islam. there is no violence. i have been teaching for 55 years. no fights broke out at these rallies. -- taught people not to be violent, criminals. that is what the nation of islam is about, reformation. to blame him for mockup next's isfor malcolm x's death

wrong. man said the same thing in the new york post. they know it is wrong. people who search history should look at the history books. they can to the fbi's secret file on the nation of islam and on black leaders. they can see he had nothing to do with the murder of malcolm x. thank you for taking my call. host: rubber in kentucky. david -- robert in kentucky. david, a democrat. caller: people are making statements untrue. this is a lie, trying to put some kind of nasty twist to what they did. they had the right to sit there.

i do not believe eli -- the -- believe about the lie about the coffee. they said they were waiting on someone. half of the people who voted for trump, i would call a cracker. i would do that too if i voted for someone that stupid to put n.meone like that i things the president said on national tv in front of children. they ought to lock the doors of the white house and throat -- white house and do not let his

white butt back in. host: we export the american tyler,s we travel to texas. here, the city's history and impact in the area. and -- havereeport a between on i-20, we have a town of 100,000 people. 25,000given day, we have medical jobs in our community. we have 20,000 college students in tyler. tyler is a historic city in texas. tyler was the financial and professional hub. the east texas oilfield is the

number one oilfield in america. it was used to support the world war ii effort. it is one of the largest geographical oil fields. is not present as much now. -- it is not producing as much now. brought a large amount of entrepreneurs to a community. -- inherently come your entrepreneurial. in the 1920's, a town of eight to 10,000 within the data 30 related -- 20%, related to the oilfield. host: he should -- be shared to tune in this weekend as we

travel to tyler, texas. to watch that video and other c-span.org/cities tour. we are in open phones, good morning. caller: good morning. mr. horwitz is part of the problem with this hysteria. he was usinggy -- the large black men in the coffee shop in the small white woman who called the police. we all heard those stories. some of your other colors came didaying the black muslims this type of stuff. there are bad guys -- they are

back as because they are not white questions, i guess -- white christians, i guess. the black lives matter thing. all of those people are bad people. fear certain white people have anything black. again, the large black ice. they are -- black guys. they are causing trouble. did you see the large black eye over there? so what -- black guy over there? so what? you have to be a small black guy in america to go to a coffee shop and use the bathroom? you have to be a small white guy in america to go to a coffee shop in use the bathroom? he could not take anybody debating with him. he just got -- he used terminology saying, people are

racist and stuff like that. he did not want anybody to call him a racist. he said people were killers. he did not want people to say he is a killer. he jumped on you, saying, you stop them or i will stop them. greta, saying i will stop him. and then you did stop people from saying things he was saying and i did not think that was right. he was clever in doing that by building a defense and putting you in a position to protect him. i think the point i was trying to make with you can be critical of each other but you do not have to call each other names. caller: he was clever to call andle racist and killers all of these other things, communist and all these things, but he did not want nobody saying he was a nazi or a racist and stuff like that.

he was clever, and even some of his callers called and talked to him and said that was racist. how were they able to say that in the other callers, the democrats and the independence cannot say that to them, that was not right. you should have stopped them, also, from saying that other people was racist and communist and all these other things. what is good for the goose is good for the gander. the point i'm trying to make is there is that fear they have. host: bernard in california, the independent line. we will leave it there. thank you for watching today. we appreciate it. that doesn't for today's washington journal. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern time. thank you. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> taking a look at some of our live programming today. in one hour, join us for a discussion on how past infrastructure projects were constructed and funded and the lessons that can be applied to current infrastructure development. a panel of history professors participated in the event with the national history center. later, president donald trump speaks at the national rifle association gathering in dallas. the president second straight year addressing the group. opening remarks by might -- by vice president mike pence. news out of washington, the unemployment rate falling from

164,000 jobswith added. the unemployment rate the lowest since december 2000, while the rate for african americans is the lowest since 1972. we continue our series, looking back 50 years to 1968. our focus is the media's role in the unrest sweeping the country at the time. the country was captured at its most horrible and vibrant. our guest in this segment are ander veteran journalists pulitzer prize-winning photographer david hume it was a west coast-based photographer in the late 1960's. that is coming up at 8:00 on c-span. connect with c-span to personalize the information you get from us.

go to c-span.org/connect & up for the email. has upcominguide schedules. word for word gives video highlights in their own words with no commentary. the book tv newsletter is an insiders look at upcoming authors and book festivals and the american history tv weekly newsletter gives you the upcoming programming exploring our nation's past. up --c-span.org/connect & and sign up today. >> now a discussion on what is ahead for the iran nuclear agreement. thelars talk about implications of the trump administration potential decision to exit the deal. the joint comprehensive plan of in july 2015ached between iran,