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this week on "q&a" author robert kerson. he discusses his book "rocket man" the the astronauts who made man's first journey to the moon. >> when did you know you had a good story? and saw walking through the u boat which is the same book wrote in my first that was found by two recreational scuba divers. intention to do but show off this wonderful submarine. i wandered through the space center section of the museum and stumbled across a spacecraft that looked at once to have come

from the past and the future. it was skashd and it was browned and battered and i looked on the placard and explained this was the command module of apollo 8. and i loved astronauts and space as a kid. i thought i knew a lot about space but really, what i knew is which was man's first landing on the moon and apollo 13 where there was a the terous explosion near moon that almost resulted in a great tragedy before the astronauts made it back safely. nothing about st apollo 8. so i went home and started researching and within about 15 minutes, i realized that i had stumbled across the greatest space story of them all. mankind's first journey away from home, away from the earth and mankind's first at a new world at the moon. >> what did you do next? >> i started to read all i could but really what i wanted to do was get in touch with the astronauts because by this time, 87 years old.ere and one was 82 so what i did was as i phone calls as fast could and the first of the

astronauts of the crew of apollo lovell i reached was jim who happens to live about 15 to 20 minutes away from me and that's how it started. needed to get to the astronauts as soon as possible. >> we got some video from an that a couple of days ago you had in chicago with these -- with all three alive. alive. three >> 90, 90 and 84. is april 5, 2018. >> any surprises for you when you first laid eyes on it? i hadn't studied the bill y as much as jim and had. something nobody had seen before. i looked at it and i was and i went back and looked at what we were supposed to be looking at. >> where did you find frank? frank is in billings, montana. ranchhis son has a cattle and where his wife is being cared for. she's in the advanced stages of alzheimer's disease. and so frank was in billings and

has for some time now and i incredibly be engaging and warm person. that wasn't the reputation he at all the time when he was nasa but he became to me one of the warmest and kindest people i've ever met. >> apollo 8 lifted off toward the moon on what date? december 21, 1968. >> here's another fella that was flight. astronaut jim lovell at your event. moon, we came around the we suddenly saw the earth which was a small, blue and white ball then i said this many, many times when i first looked at it to put my thumb up and then i hide the earth completely behind my thumb. my thumb, hat behind five billion t people and everything i knew was behind my thumb. what are they doing to stay alive so long? they are engaged mentally

with the world around them and they think of them as test of ts which is true of all them. they are great intellectual minds behind that. they were top achievers in studies.cs and all the way up through graduate levels so to keep their minds and three of them are very much active physically but they're all completely engaged thinking even into the future about space to this day. >> what's jim lovell like? kindest, ne of the sweetest men i've ever met. e had -- he is one person who did have that reputation going all the way back in nasa that nobody i spoke to could find a negative word to say about jim lovell in any way whatsoever and youof them promised me when get to know them, he's going to be one of the sweetest guys thaw ever meet. and then some. he's really a warm welcoming individual. >> one more of the three we need to look at. bill anders. here he is in chicago. well, i mean, it was clearly nothing much i could do.

we checked all the switches and everything was in the right position. and, you know, no sense of getting all worked up about this. and somewhere along the line i fell asleep. longest sleep i had on the whole flight. >> what's the difference between bill and the other two? the apollo lly saw program and apollo 8 in particular as a military mission. on one thing and believed the whole space program was focused on one thing and the soviet defeat union in space race and in the race to get the first men to the moon. to him, that's what it was all and once nasa had accomplished that, he really didn't have much interest in program.n the space bill anders really was -- he saw it much the same way as frank in terms of the military component. he was very much interested in and cientific aspect of it in the exploration aspect. this really could be considered before they lifted off as one of in great explorations mankind's history.

and anders really recognized that as such. some video of mike 1967, andn january 27, you kind of begin your book with this story. they were inside their spaceship pressurized, buttoned up inside their space suits when the fire hit. a closed circuit television camera was relaying pictures of he astronauts lying on their backs inside the spacecraft atop the two stage saturn one. there was a flash and that was it. grissom 40 years old. of two teenaged boys. mercury e original astronauts. this is ed white. nd this roger chafee, lieutenant in the united states navy, 31 years old, preparing for his first space flight. >> you say that a relationship of ed white had with one the astronauts and the astronauts' wives had a major impact on them. and tell us of that story. did.t frank wasn't close to all

astronauts but he was the losest to ed white who he considered a brother to him. and ed white felt just the same borman.rank ed white starts most astronauts were concerned with one of the and certainly the most physically strong of all the astronauts. whites were very close including frank's wife susan was best friends with pat white, ed white's wife. when this fire happened and killed the crew, it was to pat white but nobody really realized how devastating it was also to susan who began to believe from that point forward that her husband would suffer a similar the and not really survive space program. really had no chance of it. >> because susan had alzheimer's, did you have a to talk to her? if you didn't, where did you get her feelings on this? >> i did sit down with her and time with her. she really wasn't able to communicate with me at that point. often.n her presence but i was so touched by how frequently frank was in her even though she was not really capable of speaking or

even recognizing people. her ill took her to get nails done almost every day. he would climb in bed with her and keep her company and he 5:30 every morning to work out just to make sure he was healthy in order to take care of her. i learned most about susan from frank and his two sons and from cards and letters that he had and tapes that he had made talking to her, interviews she had done in the past. by the time it was finished researching this book, i felt that i knew her as closely and personally as i did the other two wives. >> the women get a lot of attention in your book. impact did they have on the men and also on the whole business of apollo 8? i never realized until i began to talk to the astronauts hat a major role the wives played and it was impossible to disregard it even after a few minutes talking to them because what they wanted to talk about. all three of them believed that without their wives, they really pulled this off. apollo 8 was the most daring and courageous space mission nasa run.ver it looked to many people like

near certain death to go on this thing. it was all rushed to the launch pad and done very quickly and everything was for the first time. wives at en needed home who were absolutely supportive but not just upportive but also did not reveal to their husbands just how much they were suffering and just how terrified they really were. >> valerie anders, tell us about her. is she still alive? and one of alive the loveliest ladies i met. she was actively engaged intellectually with the space program. she took astronomy courses on the side just because she was interested. husband's o share her interest, because she was naturally interested. but she also believed in the mission. he believed it was very important to beat the soviets in the space race and let americans reach the t ones to moon. she was all behind bill's new mission. and she -- but, you knows it was a brave thing for her. she had five little kids running around the house and very little as all theer husband wives were very much alone. bill calculated at one point he he was able to spend 11 minutes a week per

child with his family. it.that's and it was up to valerie to fill in all the rest. >> did you talk to her and if learn fromat did you her? >> i talked to her for many days. engaged ed mostly how she was intellectually with this and how brave she was. she grew up as the daughter of a patrolman.highway and so she was used to danger idea that there was always a chance that someone very close to her might not come home at night. o she was kind of the perfect partner for bill. she also was brave even dating him and bill's mother wanted him an admiral's daughter, someone higher up on the social was.n than she she never let any of that bother her. she was brave as a teenager forward. >> where do the anders live? >> they live in washington state live in a ed to beautiful area called orkis island but have moved somewhere of the most one beautiful areas. i had not been familiar with until i went out to visit and with them. >> what's marilyn lovell like?

>> she is so lovely. in milwaukee, the owner.a chocolate store and she is a very, very well lovely woman also behind her husband the whole way. you know, apollo 8 was the only apollo program or the gemini program which all hree or all the crewmen's marriages survived. when i asked marilyn about that, that?do you think explains there's all divorces all over the place with astronauts. life was very difficult on marriages and i asked her what do you think is behind that? she speculated all three were really the result ofthat? there's all divorces childhood romances. and if you see them today together strolling along lake and jim, and lyn he shows her the moon still as they stroll at night, you can people have been in love since they were kids. >> all right. this sounds too good to be true. they all went to the academy? >> frank went to west point. academy. to naval

and joe went to naval academy. >> their marriages lasted. they're 90, 90 and 84. the edge? where did they disagree? where did they have a confrontation? with?as hard to get along >> well, borman was the commander of the mission and he said was going to go. they saw the mission differently. for example, borman never wanted television cameras aboard the flight and the other two saw the need for that and right away.in that but borman to his credit allowed it. borman wanted to make one revolution of the moon and not they would make. he wanted to beat the soviets but the others understood there's scientific value to doing it. there's value to the future flights that would go to the talk nd so they would about this. they were very much connected and of a piece these three guys them,think it's what made what borman described to me as the best crew that nasa had ever assembled. >> so go back to your approach to all this.

once you met with jim lovell, ou met with the other astronauts, the wives and all that stuff. what then mattered to you in and what's story the difference between the story you're telling and what everybody else was told? > one of the main differences is the importance of the family. i realized that right away that in order to tell this to ctively you had understand the role of family and the wives and the children and it was essential. ut you also had to understand the year in which this happened. this fight came at the very end which you could argue was one of the most terrible years in our country's history. assassinations of martin luther king jr., of robert kennedy. you had 15,000 dead americans in vietnam. sometimes 90% of the nightly news was dedicated to vietnam. you had violence in the streets in my hometown of chicago at the democratic convention. and all kinds of other trouble. end of the year that nobody could come together. againsty seemed divided everybody else. nation divided against each other. there's some echos by the way to 2018 in 1968. but here at the very end of the

ear comes this impossible proposition that man is going to o to the moon suddenly in four months time. not the usual 10 to 18 and pull off something that nobody has before but mankind has dreamed of. so to put it in the context of include the to families and put you right in the capsule with them, that was essential to get to know them endless hours with them, days and weeks with them in order to get a feeling of what it was really like to sit to them. not just stories but the feeling for the men themselves. that all was part of what i new to the story. >> at the museum of science and industry in chicago where you live, did they let you get inside the space capsule? >> no. it's cordoned off by plexiglas. they like it when you lift your head up and look in too close. them.'t blame you can't possibly climb in. you can see inside because the hatch is open. and that hatch is really to see because it was the inability to open the 1 ch that killed the apollo astronaut and that's something

borman personally took under his wing to make sure that hatch close and open and close nonstop. when they came to visit and borman went and look at it, the first thing i looked at was the hatch of apollo 8. did you go to get a feeling for this whole story? >> we went to houston to see a rocket. that was very important to me because all three astronauts spoke of the incredible power of and the size and the immensity of it. remains today the most powerful machine ever built. 50 years later, still true. no matter howd me advanced the simulations were, you couldn't get a sense for that. sense for the a power and grandeur of this rocket. nobody had flown this rocket before. it had been tested twice, both unmanned. in the second test, it looked like there was catastrophic instead, a few months later they'll put it on the launch pad with three human beings that had families, wives and send them to

the moon. did the squawk box play and what was it? >> the squawk box was put in the homes and it ly's was a small box, looked somewhat only a adio but it was volume control. the wives and children could listen to live transmissions between houston and the spacecraft. it was the only lifeline the wives and children had to their husbands and fathers. it was relied on very heavily by the wives and especially by borman who believed with 100% certainty that frank would die on the mission. so as long as she heard his voice, she knew it hadn't happened yet but to her, it still was only a question of when. hours do you think you spent talking to either the astronauts or their wives? the think it had to be in hundreds. i had to be careful not to intrude too much on their lives because they had other things going on and i wanted to respect they had limited schedules

but they were just -- whatever i eeded from them, they were happy to give it to me and then some. i really ended up getting many, hours and days than i thought i would get. i think once we connected and for saw that i had a feel this story, the way i explained it to them, i think they were happy to do it it and i was there.ed to be >> how did you convince them you had a feel for the story? >> one of the things that helped book "shadow t divers". when i approached jim lovell i could tell he's approached all as they all are. he had read "shadow divers" in on , he had listened to it audio book. and he told me something that was one of the great honors of my life. he said that at one point, gotten so exciting in that book that he on his way to son's restaurant found himself orbiting the parking lot listening to the end of the chapter. door.elped me get in the once i explained to him that the thing i loved so much about the contained so it many firsts and it was really mankind's first journey away from home. and that it was mankind's first

arrival at a new world and i didn't really want to talk about the mixture of propellants or the technical aspects. i think that's better left to other writers. i wanted to get at the human story. we he understood that, really connected and he helped connect me to the other two astronauts and we were off to the races. me if i'm -- excuse me -- wrong about these dates. "shadow divers" in 2004? >> right. >> another in 2007 was all of interviews way the that we've had are on our archive. what was criesing through about? >> that was about a gentleman from davis, california, who 16th person he known to history to live a lifetime fully blind and then restored.ision and you would think that's the greatest thing that could happen to a human being ever and in i did research, i realized it was the single worst hing at least psychologically that could happen to a person. the results were devastating psychologically to the newly sighted.

there were suicidal thoughts. there was clawing at the eyes to out.them there was fury and anger at the surgeons who cured them. it turns out it's very, very to see if you haven't learned to see as a little child. and once you try to see as an first time, there are all kinds of complications. but this person from davis, alifornia was much different than his 15 predecessors. and i tell the story of mike may hich is a really inspirational and one of a kind story. >> when is the last time you talked to him? >> not two weeks ago, he stayed my house for an evening during a business convention in chicago. >> how is his sight now? is almost 20/20 but that doesn't mean he can see like the rest of us. book explains e is how he used ingenious tricks nd shortcuts to learn to use the kind of vision he was able to process. so you can go out on the basketball court and mike can out of 10 free throws or play frisbie with him he and catches it every time and he can a bike down the street. if you put him at the top of a 0 story building he would walk off the top and wouldn't know

there was a dropoff. there's certain things that work certain things that don't. a lot of them are in the brain. >> what impact did the book that you wrote about him have on him? >> one of the biggest impacts. he became world famous from it a lot of ation to blind people because he was raised by a mother who would not indulge him in any special treatment. up at a sometime when many blind children were sent away to school and away from families. his mother not only didn't send him away, she insisted he do everything. she found out, for example, he wanted to build an 80 foot ham radio tower in the backyard top, she let he him even though it took years off her life to do it. drove his und out he sister's car, she didn't punish him for it. he try everything and breathe in the entire world. that's the message that people took from the book about seeking adventure and trying no matter what obstacles you might face. "pirate hunters" what's that about? four the way, of the books you've done, which one

satisfaction?ost probably this one because i've dreamed so often about what it meant to reach the oon and how human beings have dreamed of going there. nd i do believe the moon has a pull and the idea that human beings could pull that off under such threat under from a magnificent enemy really love assed everything i about stories. and it was a race against time. a terrific enemy. had three real true heroes but they were special heroes unlike the rest of us and yet so of us, e the rest ovell, borman and anders are regular guys. that's a big part of what drew me to the story. i remember looking up at school black and white tv's bolted to the wall and just marvelling at what was going on so many things have worn off. the thrill has worn off as i get older and older. that never did. that seems as exciting to me

today as it did back then. opportunity to tell that story, first time man ever moon, i don't know if i'll top it. >> "pirate hunters" i interrupted my own question. that about? >> it's kind of a follow-up to shadow divers" in that it follows one of the two divers on a mission to do something maybe even more difficult than a lost german sub in new jersey waters. he dreams of finding a golden pirate ship. golden age of racy went from 1720, single hardest thing maybe to find in all the world. quest,he set out on this only one had been discovered and positively identified. almost impossible to do. not just the find second one but maybe the reatest pirate ship ever lost and the story about his quest to do that. >> you left the practice of law, graduated from harvard law school to be a writer, are you still glad you did it? thrilled.ay, i'm and my wife is a lawyer and when

i see her binders and those brings n binders she home, it gives me these terrible never stopped i thanking my lucky stars that i had that moment of bravery when of taking the certain money, i said, even if this costs me everything, i have to e happy because i was profoundly miserable on the job as a lawyer. i disliked the work very much. at it which is a terrible recipe for life. been happyd ship and ever since. >> i think it was 12 days, tell if i'm wrong, back december 3, 1968, that the astronauts called to the white house. maybe it's not 12 days before but it looks like it. dinner, how many days was it? do you remember? >> just a day or two. a few days before the launch. >> before the launch. >> here's some video of that. they were called to the white standing by were to get on the spaceship to go to the moon. let's watch. >> a few days before the

countdown at the first white house dinner honoring the entire team, president johnson praised the literedship of thats nasa's outgoing director james webb. hand was charles lindberg, famed for his solo flight 41 years ago. and the astronauts of apollo 7 1968 earned who in their place in history. would they have interrupted their planning and their wives went with them and on to have a s dinner at the white house when they were about to launch the apollo 8? > it was a terrible idea and done strictly for propaganda purposes. and on top of it being a normal idea, the hong kong flu was going around at the time and there was coughing all over the that dinner. valerie anders was shocked to exposure that the

astronauts were undergoing and for their safety from that. it was just a propaganda event. it should never have been done, opinion. but the astronauts are there partly to do public relations. it's the reason they were the television cameras on board. so they did it. i don't know that any of them it.yed doing but what they did enjoy is one last good-bye with their wives because they had previously said allowed them one last kiss. >> do you have any idea how many there were?hts >> i don't remember off hand. i can't say. or six but i'mve not certain. >> those are all just earth orbitals? yes. >> and the gemini flights, how many were there? gemini 12 is the last one. that's his second flight. frank on gemini 7. a lot of people don't know that. weeks in a solid capsule at the size of a

volkswagen beetle. it was a really good test flight to see if these two could go together and they did. to ni was the test program build up to apollo which was designed to take men to the moon. >> how many apollos were there? let's see, apollo one never went. tragedy a failure and on the launch pad. apollos two and three never went. six were tests of the saturn five. four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17. so 14. did you get all the quotes in here? and did you -- how much of the transcripts did you read? >> well, i read unbelievable amounts of transcripts. not just transcripts, though. transcripts are essential to understanding the flight. commentary on the transcripts. i read almost every oral history who could th anyone have even been peripherally

apollo 8 and they were smart enough to do the oral histories long ago. so many people who were involved 8 are no longer with us. but nasa was smart enough to sit down and interview them. you o it's almost like could go back in time 50 years and talk to these people who you toer otherwise would be able reach. i've never had an opportunity like that in a book before. > who else is alive that was deeply involved in apollo 8? was on, mike collins who apollo 11 was one of the backup members. he was an original apollo 8 crew member and he had an injury that placedm off the crew but him on the first lunar landing and several astronauts still that were either controlers for apollo 8 or involved one way or another in training. the biggest break i got was talking to chris craft who was director of flight operations apollo 8. and who was really the mastermind behind mission ontrol and one of the great

nasa legends of all time. he was 91 when i first interviewed him. 94 now.ve he's and he was as sharp as ever. remembered everything. and could really explain the background.the he was part of the original team really in an epiphany to send apollo 8 to the moon sudden and in only four time.s' >> you say that you provided each of the astronauts with a opy of your book before it was published and they didn't ask for anything to be changed. really? gave them the manuscript and said i want you to correct any factual mistake. this to you for editorial changes. the way i've approached this and the way i've treated it, i've and hard about and that's my baby. but if i've gotten anything factually, you must change it. i insist. and in fact, they saved me of them.imes, each so i sat down with each of them. we went page by page, sometimes by word and it was amazing the things these guys

of a ered, the shape handle that was used to abort if there was an emergency. there was a days long argument and we finally figured these things out. i wanted to make this book bulletproof because i believe one of the most important stories in american history really in the history of first time we e left the world, i wanted it to be right. >> how much time did they give apollo 8 crowd time? how much time have they given them to prepare for this launch? >> normally, a launch would take for 18 months to prepare and train for. for the plans to get ready, controllers, astronauts, everything. this one was conceived really finalized in early august of 1968. they had about four months and unthinkable. if you talk to the astronauts ow, they still can't hardly believe that this was rushed so long. frank borman told me a story that i'm still having trouble processing. he told it at the event the other night where he went in and in one four hour meeting craft and 10 or 12 of the top planners at nasa worked

entire ntially the flight plan for apollo 8. he said can you imagine in this this age of bureaucracies and levels of management that ever happening. figured out , they how to go to the moon. >> there was a photographer who these the lives of all of astronauts and their families. what did you learn about that? were l, the astronauts given $16,000 a year by life for to their access stories. so a lot of other reporters and out.graphers felt left but on the other hand, that one photographer and that one eporter started to gain a trust, a familial feeling with the astronauts' families so they get photographs that most other photographers never would get. many of them as in the book as i could. there's a photo in the book of hands nd susan holding and i asked him about that. he said she was convinced at that point i was never coming and what she was saying is

i may never see you again. and you see those moments. glad for that contract. it helped the astronauts inancially who weren't making much money at the time but helped us all 50 years later much more. "life"you want to see the magazine coverage, any place you can find it? searches do google and type in apollo 8 in "life" magazine. and re in beautiful color you can see really these inside humanat human beings, the aspect is really what's captured by those photographers. months, who made the decision final to go? the decision originally was that of george lowe, he was the apollo spacecraft manager. a very quiet man who subjects and verbs always agreed and brought his briefcase to the beach when he was out tanning because he's always thinking and planning and he realized that so could be accomplished and so much could be saved if they went in four months' time. the idea to ed craft.

craft thought he was crazy at first. but then saw the brilliance, the genius in it. higher and up higher. nasa's they took it to boss james webb. webb's first reaction when he plan "are you out of your mind"? and he went through the risks and he said if anything happens, is at risk.ogram and may not go forward. then reminded him of one other risk. nobody had thought of it. might have been the gravest risk all. if the astronauts died at the oon, no one, he said, no one would look at the moon the same way again. and the same was really true of christmas. they were scheduled to orbit the moon on christmas eve and christmas day. if they died then, who in the would think of christmas the same again? four months, why were they hurry? a >> the reason it changed so suddenly is the landing craft that would shuttle astronauts spacecraft to ng

the lunar surface and back was stalled. there was problems in production to design that threatened stall the entire apollo program. george lowe thought if we send the craft at a moon without a lunar landing, we can do three things at once. apollo program going and learn all the techniques of going to the moon, are,any problems that there prepare for the first lunar landing. we can keep the program going that we might keep president kennedy's promise to the country in 1961 to land a by the end of the decade alive. and we have an outside chance of the moon e soviets to sending the first man to the moon because there was a top came in i.a. memo that in august or in mid 1968 that warns that the soviets could the moon as late as -- as early as late 1968, so three things could be done if this thing to the launch pad and that's what they did. >> this has nothing to do with apollo 8. but you talk about bill anders pilot, test pilot, flipping the bird as you would

say to the soviets. that story? >> well, he was flying these missions.r very daring missions out of iceland. and his job was to guard protected area and make sure the soviets didn't encroach. these were fearsome airplanes that he was flying. flew the most dangerous cutting edge airplanes. and he was up there and came cross soviets that were very near at the place they shouldn't be. and he got so close that he could identify the color of their eyes. and because they were the enemy and because he believed in america like all the other he did what any normal patriot would do, he bird.ed them the and i don't know that the soviet what he was seeing. a long time later, after the gone through ve the kremlin and through so many of the soviet

bureaucracy, anders had occasion and to see these pilots they held up a sign. i won't repeat what the sign said. anders'an answer to bill gesture. >> liftoff was on what day? 1968.cember 21, >> how many days were they away from earth? >> a little over six days. >> how many miles is it to the moon? the moon, it's about 240,000 miles. first moment in the flight that there was a concern that something might go wrong? oh, on liftoff, none of them no matter how advanced the training was was prepared for power and fury of the saturn 5 rocket. said, second test, as i it had failed miserably and one of the huge failures it was this violent pogoing effect. they felt that during liftoff. of the he first stages flight. anders believed in the first moments of the flight that the was sheering off the launch tower. that the fins were being sheered violent.as so they made it into earth orbit

just fine. checked all the systems and then on the way to the moon. by the way, there was not a dry when theysion control left earth's gravitational sphere, first time mankind has left its world. frank borman who had been flying since he was 15 years old had never been sick in an airplane or test plane. >> don't tell the story! him got some video of telling the story. because i did when i asked you about this. 2009, here's frank. >> we might as well get it out now.t i got motion sick and puked. >> i was not gonna -- frank, we weren't going to say anything. >> yeah. >> but i got over it in a hurry clearly, k it was although i didn't think so at the time because i had flown two in gemini without getting sick, i had never been sick in an airplane except when i was hung over.

so i don't really believe. i think it was a motion sickness. >> you describe this in detail in the book. has that been done before? i don't think so. i loved it because they described it in detail to me all anders f them and bill when he described the physics of what he was seeing floating cabin, it was one of the most poetic things that i've heard. it was a real physicist and explaining borman's sickness but this wasn't just an thing to laugh about 50 years later, this threatened to turn the entire flight around and top brass at nasa really considered that. >> now, people don't want to hear this. page 200, you say from below he brown blob greenish about the size of a golf ball moving towards him. explain further what they all had to contend with when frank up?an threw >> here came from down below and

it was floating toward the other two astronauts. and anders sees it, lovell is the impact area. and anders describes how it ll's eyes narrow as approaches him and hits him in the chest and flattens like an omelet. anders described it to me. globules hen these see how it, you could newton's laws applied. there was a mixture of horror from the astronauts and also of ination at the beauty celestial mechanics on display inside the spacecraft. > frank borman also had diarrhea. this was diarrhea and a -- nobody understood what was happening. he had never been sick before ever. here?was happening the hong kong flu had killed thousands and thousands of people that year. no one knew if he had the flu, he got it at the white house dinner. nobody knew. if he had something contagious, other two were at

risk. if you had three sick astronauts that way to the moon, couldn't work. the doctors got together trying to figure out what to do. if you ask borman, i told him chris craft said there was erious consideration about turning him around. he laughed and said never, i would have never turned around. i'm the boss there. and had a heart attack lying dead on the floor of the spacecraft, i would have told were guys my last words still going. >> you write frank borman didn't especially doctors the agency's medical director harles berry whose judgment he questioned and believed to be ever itching to make himself part of the story. should we assume that dr. berry dead? >> i believe he is, yeah. >> why wouldn't he trust the nasa doctors? frank wasn't the only one. there was several of them who believed that the doctors there insinuate to themselves or want to insinuate picture to nto the make themselves part of the dventure and if they just sat around and let things unfold,

they wouldn't be credited with with the h to do program. so a lot of the astronauts distrusted the doctors. craft about chris that, he thought that was crazy ridiculous and they needed to allow them to help them. if doctors were given the chance things around, they weren't about to risk that. > for the moment talking about the sickness of frank borman and describe in there how they eliminate body waste. how often has that been described over the years? >> sometimes people describe it. i like to think i did it most poetically of all. me.as fascinating to they described it and remembered every bit it was and some of it was risky. to time things correctly. bill anders told me he tried to practice at home and things work so well and determined that he just wasn't going to defecate on the trip so he began eating a low residue diet or high residue diet. must be low. and before the trip.

and was successful. but -- >> six days. >> six days. here is 16 seconds of apollo 8, halfway to the moon. one of their television shows that they had. >> transmission is coming to you halfway between the moon and the earth. hours, about 20 flight.into the than 40 hoursless left to go to the moon. >> what else scared them that things might not go right and what were they apprehensive about as they went to the moon? >> than 40 hours left to go to the moon. one of . n fact, i consider it the singest biggest danger they faceed is they went without this hun ash module. module didn't just deliver astronauts to the lunar surface back. backup engineas a weren't wrong g with the primary engine.

for apollo 8 once they were at the moon to get into lunar orbit and to get out and come home, their single engine had to work perfectly. if it idn't, malfunctioned or failed, they could crash into the lunar and they could fly off into solar orbit or any number of terrible results. something had to work perfectly and that there was no redundancy, i think, everybody. and it concerned certainly the people at mission control. > meanwhile, in the middle of this flight, you tell a dramatic moment where susan borman who you say was an alcoholic? >> they would find that out later. frank didn't know it at the time. under way.ady >> but marilyn lovell came to visit her at home. what's that story? this is in the middle when they're on to the moon. >> this is a particularly tense and marilyn went to susan's home for support. sisterhood with her. this is very frightening for all the women. but she was home

upstairs and wouldn't come out. and people told marilyn she'll down.ht marilyn had no idea at the time he suffering that susan borman was enduring. had she known, i think she would and understood completely maybe would not have gone over. but she waited for her and i hink she waited two hours and susan never appeared. susan was upstairs curled up on the bed in the fetal position the squawk box just waiting for the inevitable demise of her husband. help it and she was suffering terribly. if you ask marilyn about it oday, she'd say if i had any idea, i wouldn't have bothered her. that these stress women were undergoing at the time. aboutn did frank find out this? >> years later, believe it or not. susan a hat made wonderful wife to him, she never let on to him or two sons how suffering.s that was what she viewed as part of her obligation and duty not her to her family but to country.

she o all eyes but hers, was happy and care free and supportive. dying.side, she was > here's jim lovell from the module telling us what the moon looks like. >> apollo 8 houston, what's the look like from 60 miles, over? >> ok, houston. is essentially gray. no color. yous like plaster of paris, know, or sort of a grayish and you can see quite a bit of detail. the craters are rounded off. quite a few of them. look like -- especially the like they've k been hit by meteorites of some sort. > how much video is available to look at from this flight? >> there's a good amount of the and thanks to foresight of the planners to send video cameras up. hey had problems with the

windows believe it or not. everything was happening for the first time on this trip. they didn't realize all the things that can go wrong. one of the things that went sealant fogged up the windows but the video footage is breathtaking and you're seeing the first them for time an arrival at the moon. t-- ere did can you finaled find the video? >> it's all over you tube. nd some of the video has been restored and enhanced so it's very sharp and lucky for us in this day and age that we have it a button.ck of >> he said close to 60 miles. what was the exact distance they the moon? >> 69 miles. >> how many times did they go around the moon? they weren't around the moon each orbit o hours for a total of 20 hours. >> anything go wrong during that time? perfect. was virtually there was a lot of anxiety about whether these engines would -- single engine would work properly. but as they went around the it was near flawless.

>> so what was the moment in the you went home to your wife amy and said you can't believe what i just found. when they were telling me about that maybe bill anders most powerful and impactful, important photograph ever taken during this journey. described that to me, that had me in tears. screen.he >> yes. called an earth rise. >> right. that's called earth rise and on the fourth revolution and anders told me all these ad trained four months to take pictures of the moon and to study the moon and it was all about the moon. and here they came and the spacecraft turned and to the the ise of all of them, in vast infinity of blackness that is space and over the gray terrain of the moon came this beautiful blue jewel everything on it was that all three of them held dear in the world. it was the most beautiful sight they had ever seen. scrambled for their

cameras. frank borman actually got the first shot off. white. in black and bill anders, i don't know how he didn't his cool during this time. lasted a matter of moments, hadd a long telephoto lens, a color film magazine and snapped that picture and that's he first time that mankind had looked back on itself in its entirety. >> why is bill anders the mission?her of the >> i don't know. and i don't know if he knows still. he viewed it as a secondary i argue in the book when he came back, he was he most famous photographer in the world. he told me he had gone all that way to find the moon and what found was the earth. >> that photograph called "earth often is that -- is there any way to quantify how many times people have used that photograph? >> it's everywhere. it was on a postage stamp when hey came back and became a symbol of the environmental movement. they -- you saw it on the 100 images of the 20th century on the cover of

magazines. one of them. on it's on the cover. i make, as i said, i think it is the most important photographer ever taken. >> christmas eve, 1968, the statement, the television. did all the networks carry this stuff? >> everyone carried it. were told before they left that more people would be listening to that broadcast to a ad ever listened human voice at once in history. and that probably nearly a third world's population would listen live. and that they better say something appropriate. nd they were given no more guidance than that. committees.o no levels to pass it through. borman was said say something to opriate and nobody said him again and it felt to them to figure out what would be appropriate on christmas eve at to a third of the world's population. >> how did they go about deciding? first, they started to talk amongst themselves. they couldn't come up with something. silly.of their ideas were should they do jingle bells and

change the words? a very w this was serious momentous historic occasion. and they needed to do something to match the gravity of the moment. just couldn't think of anything that fit. so borman went to a friend of to be an considered intellectual and sensitive man and asked him. couldn't think of anything. that man passed it to another person who was a literary person and that person couldn't think of anything. but that person's wife at about 2:30 in the morning right before needed to get something done suggested something and as soon as that man heard it and it, they auts heard knew it was perfect. and that's what they took. bit t's listen to a little of this. first voice that you hear is frank ders and jim and borman. let's watch. >> in the beginning, god created the heaven and the earth. and the earth was without form. and void. and darkness was upon the face of the deep. >> out of the darkness he told

ight and the morning was the first day. good m apollo 8, we say night. good luck. a merry christmas. you.od bless all of all of you on the good earth. >> did the russians see that? >> i think they did. >> what time of night was that here? >> it was early in the morning. russians, you know, when the russians were monitoring they believed that this was not true. that this could not have happened. rushed ieved it was so in the launch pad that nobody would have dared this flight in reality. so for a while, they didn't believe it. by the time of this broadcast, and knew it it occurred. >> how many reaction was there to genesis and reading this? >> the worldwide reaction was overwhelming. people poured out into the streets. there were reports of people looking toward the heavens knowing that they couldn't spot of course, but looking nonetheless.

the men had picked something so unifying for so many people in the world and so of opriate the story creation for the first men who ever arrived at a new world was some people and there were tears of joy around the world. were some of the things that either the astronauts did for their wives on birthdays or was set up in advance? >> yes, jim lovell really did one of the most romantic things you'll hear of. before he left, he went to neiman marcus and arranged to his wife jacket for marilyn but didn't bring it home that day in advance of christmas. instead, he arranged for it to delivered on christmas day as he was at the moon. and there was a knock at the and marilyn was so tired at that point of reporters to king, everybody wanted ask questions. they were camped out on the front lawns of all three of the astronauts. but nonetheless, she answered and it was a uniformed chauffeur who had a box for her jacket.was this fur and she opened it.

and inside the beautiful rapping, there was a card that said " merry christmas from the man on the moon." >> here's a photograph. nelson rockefeller had them all together at one point. maybe you remember this and seen this photograph. where it is. but when you look at it, though, all dressed up in their tuxedos and all. did they all in the end get as well as you say they did? >> absolutely. day.they do to this i think that's part of what caused borman to label them as he best crew nasa had assembled. there was a chemistry between that -- understanding of each one's role and hopes and disappointments. anders was disappointed in this first flight to the moon because it meant likely he would not the moon.on he had to train for a different role in this flight and that meant he was going to be a specialist who didn't walk on moon and borman understood that disappointment and i think that meant something to anders. lot of himself in the younger anders and i think that

helped also. impossible not to get along with lovell. i think these three were matched perfectly. >> did borman flew again? >> he never flew another space mission. he believe he had done that he set out to do. we dealt a significant if not a soviets in the e spay race and his job was done. i think at that point, he started to suspect this was susan and hisd on family. and since he had done his job, he called it a day at nasa. lovell walk on the moon? >> no, he dreamed of walking on the moon. apollo 8 would look at the terrain and would day. i will be there some he went auto on apollo 13, a was r known flight and scheduled to walk on the moon. there was an explosion in an oxygen tank near the moon and crew nearly didn't make it back. >> on so what did these three en do after they were astronauts? >> frank borman went on to run eastern airlines. i have my where primary memories of him as a kid

him on i would see television commercials all the time. he was so much like himself on the tv commercials and in one of you know, airlines are pretty much all the same. what does it matter which one fly? he's a very straight shooter. and that's how he was and he as very successful chairman at eastern airlines. jim lovell went into private industry and became very, very that.sful in and bill anders went on to run general dynamics, a defense and became extremely successful at that. >> how did he become an ambassador? he was s offered perceived by the government as being a very even handed person. lot of people appreciated that. valerie his wife loved norway. and so when they came to him and said would you like an ambassador? to valerie and said this is the one he chose. >> will we do this again? moon? the >> i think we will go to the moon again.

rather than vately through nasa. but whether we'll do something again i'm skeptical of about. to do this at the time in the hurried did it in fashion only can happen when you re looking an enemy in the eye and your very existence is at stake. hat's when this country shines the most. and when unreal things start to happen. kind of ithout that threat, i don't know how far we can be pushed into the impossible. repeat the fact that we have followed you through your writing career "shadow divers" in 2004. through 2014 and rocket man in 2018. they're all available including archives where people can go back and watch them. what's next? >> that's the hardest part of my far.by to find a story worthy man".ially of "rocket i have talked to writer friends

forever about the right way to find a new story. has any idea. in fact more and more as we get older, i think it's a matter of luck. if i would have turned one way in the museum than the other, i have foundif i would this story. that's a little unsettling to think it depends on luck. it's exciting, too. adventure.s an >> so you do not have a next book right now? >> not at the moment. that you have anything you're interested in? >> i'm interested in a lot. and you find a lot of great tories that would make good magazine stories but to sustain a book you have to find something really special and far between. >> writing for you has become harder? easier? >> both. i think. i know what it takes to get to a but because i realize that it requires an extra interview even when you think research intoxtra more books even when you think you're done, it may take more time. ut it's all thrilling because it's all learning and i love that part of it. all your you had information researched, what's

the length of time it took to book? the actual >> the writing always takes me less than the research. project, i 2 1/2 year think maybe nine months went to the writing and the rest to the research. know the ting to astronauts and spend time with them. > his book is called "rocket man, the daring odyssey of apollo 8 and the astronauts who made man's first journey to the moon." we thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this visit us at q&a.org. the programs are available at c-span podcasts.

>> next week on "q&a" english professor discusses his book "inseparable." the original siamese twins and their rendezvous with american history. about the life and times of onjoined twins chang and ing bunker. that's "q&a" next sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span. here's a look at our live today.mming for the house gavel is in for general speeches live at noon eastern with legislative at 2:00 p.m. on the agenda, representative elect debbie lesco of arizona intorn in to fill the seat formerly held by trent franks. live, a discussion on the north and south korea talks. and the proposed talks between north korea and the u.s. ater, a forum on how to ensure

election voting security and the senate gavels in at 3:00 p.m. to consider judicial nominations. ave on c-span 3 at 3:00 p.m., discussion of combatting human trafficking in the travel and tourism industry. >> tonight, on "landmark cases", capital punishment. greg v. georgia. troy leon gregg, convicted armed robber and murderer challenged his death sentence. case and four other capital punishment cases were considered by the court. ruled against rt him. but established stricter guidelines for states wishing to death penalty. our guests to discuss this landmark case, one of the top capital punishment scholars and professor, she's against the death penalty in a number of cases before the court. she was also a former clerk of thurgood urt justice marshall and the legal director of the criminal justice legal foundation.

advocating in favor of capital punishment and a more swift system.criminal justice he's written numerous briefs and death penalty cases before the supreme court. "landmark cases" tonight on c-span and join the conversation. our hashtag is "landmark cases" c-span.low us at and we have resources on our website for background on each case. landmark cases companion book. a link to the national constitution center's constitution and the landmark cases podcast at cspan.org/landmarkcases. > this morning, reporters look to the week ahead in washington with the newspaper correspondent kuhmar and greenberg news reporter. and andrew stettner talks about technology's impact on the work this later as part of c-span's 50 capitals tour, with nebraska

governor on the policy issues in his state. callsays, we'll take your and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter as well. "washington journal" is next. [captions made possible by mlb network] >> good morning. it's monday, may 7, 2018, the house and senate both return to capitol hill today. both chambers are expected to hold votes later in the afternoon. we're with you for the next on the washington journal and we begin today with a question about congressional term limits. the push to institute term on members of the house and senate received new momentum ast week after president trump offered his support for a plan roposed by a buy part group of young members. give us a call and let us know if you support term limits for congress.