but i think the reality is that the president will attack hisever agency is not to personal benefit, and he has his principal focus turned on the fbi and the department of justice. should the cia produce further evidence of collusion by his campaign, i'm sure that he will train his sights on them and claim they are part of the deep state that is out to get him. this president has no ideology except self, no respect for institutions but self. and i think the cia is probably breathing a sigh of relief that they did not have someone there who was going to be interfering with the mission of the agency or undermining it from inside, but i don't think that they can necessarily have confidence that they are out of the crosshairs at any time in this administration. can watch the rest of

that interview with congressman adam schiff tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. and six a clock p.m. eastern here on the span. eastern here on c-span. next, a look at mobile technology with members of the tech industry. the subcommittee meeting is chaired by roger wicker. it is one -- an hour and a half. >> good afternoon, and welcome. today's subcommittee meets to examine the state of the app economy and trends in mobile technologies. i am glad to convey this hearing. over the past several weeks, consumer interactions with mobile apps and the information these apps collect about americans has dominated the news reports. this hearing is an opportunity to take a broader look at the

app industry and understand its contributions to our economy in creating jobs, driving investment, and fostering innovation. it is also an opportunity to discuss emerging trends within such as-- within apps virtual reality and ai apps. i hope we will examine policy issues related to broadband infrastructure, data privacy, workforce development, and other considerations important to the continued growth of the app economy. proliferation of smartphones, tablets, and other mobile devices has created an exciting market of mobile applications. mobile apps allow consumers to access virtually anything at their fingertips. consumers can watch tv, deposit checks at the bank, and control the lighting and security within their homes, start their cars, connect a loved one face-to-face, all through the

touch of an app. of time, at period large economy has developed around the app industry. it has become a robust resource for job creation, investment, competition, and new opportunities for american enterprises. increasingly, consumers and businesses are turning to apps not just for entertainment, but efficiency, convenience, productivity, and cost savings. mississippi farmers, for example, are using apps for precision agriculture technologies. apps allow them to monitor the health of their crops and the welfare of their livestock remotely. this helps farmers accurately yields,agricultural cutting down cost and increasing productivity. recipients are also using apps to access telemedicine service. patients withde immediate access to medical

professionals or other health-related services that are not readily available in their neighborhoods or communities. this technology helps improve patient outcomes and saves lives. foundationtion -- a of the app industry's success is a fun little broadband network. community --ons communication networks promise even more apt capability. we need to ensure that reliable broadband networks are available to all americans, whether that is through private investment or dedicated government programs, like phase two of the mobility fund. broadband offers immediate access to economic opportunities and other resources that have been shifting to the online marketplace. prioritizing the deployment of broadband infrastructure, workforce

development is critical to growing the app economy. maintaining a trained and skilled workforce will help meet industry needs, and ensure that the united date remains a leader -- states remains a leader in the digital global economy. i'm grateful to have mr. forrester here today, representing innovate mississippi and the mississippi coding academy. i look forward to hear more about his work to train the next generation of workers in theissippi and around country. in the last couple of days, the app economy has clearly brought value to consumers and businesses. it promises to continue delivering this value as apps increase in personalization and utility for users while adequately safeguarding consumer data. to that end, i look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about how to preserve the many economic and societal benefits

of mobile applications. now and in the years to come. before introducing the members of our panel, i recognize my dear friend senator >> thank you for holding mishearing on the support and topic. i would like to address the issue hitting the senate for tomorrow on net neutrality, the battle for the internet itself. it is hard for me to hear something around apps and not mention that this week we will take thepportunity to stand in the senate on behalf of a free and open internet. this will require every senator to go on the record and i hope that my colleagues will join me and vote to reject the sec's fcc's decision.

technology is in fact bring a positive change that we hoped for. they make it easy for us to buy things and they help us to communicate better. they also created an industry that employs millions of well- paid software engineers, designers, and marketers. but we have not yet really realized the potential of these technologies and i personally worry that too many companies are focused on the wrong problems and the wrong questions. we already live at a time of unprecedented convenience, but the silicon valley spends money and brainpower building apps to make things available and on demand and take transactions frictionless for example, . analysis said that at least $9 million was poured into delivery startups between 2006 and 2016. as one technologist tweeted, the tech culture is focused on

solving one problem -- what is my mother no longer doing for me? but behind this kind of sassy comet is a more solemn truth, is that we have the best tech available in the history of the world and it should rise to solve the serious problems we face as a society. a lack of convenience is not one of those problems. the overwhelming options at our tips are sometimes becoming an inconvenience in and of themselves. instead we need tech to focus on the most important and impactful problems facing society. it is true that the disruptive business models we've seen from the apple economy have provided tremendous benefits to consumers , but they also have costs. they cost us jobs in certain industries and create new forms of addiction and left behind an uneven distribution of wealth. sometimes that balances out to new fortunes for a few, but does not turn out well for a society as a whole. and i understand the concept -- and improved convenience.

technological transformation should have an impact beyond improved efficiency and convenience. i don't believe tech will solve all of our problems, but in the united states we pride ourselves on the idea that innovation is the real driver of progress. i hope we will see some big, profound, and positive changes in the mobile rep -- revolution and it will translate to meaningful progress for the whole country. i look forward to hearing from witnesses. other senator and i will be canceling each other's vote out this week on the issue on net neutrality. over two decades, the internet has prospered and become this great engine of job creation and economic development because of the light touch regulatory

framework that we've had, only in the last few years did the fcc under the obama approach aion heavier, title ii regulatory scheme, which i am pleased the current fcc has moved away from, towards the more traditional type of light touch regulation, and we will be debating that on the floor later on. since my friend and chose that to bring it up, i thought i would put in my two cents. member, senator nelson, would also like to make an opening statement. you are recognized at this point. sen. nelson: thank you.

thee are those of us on issue of net neutrality that are still trying to get a bipartisan solution in legislation. let's talk about apps. say my concern for the senator for hawaii and what is happening out there, is this thing almost ready to blow? >> thank you to the ranking member for the question. people on the big island are resilient. ande are 25 farms destroyed 36 structures total. people don't know what is going to happen next. it could subside or go on for years, but i appreciate your

concern and all the rest of our colleagues as we try to keep everyone safe. nelson: as we have been discussing the app, they contribute to millions to the economy. it is important to recognize that developers are putting significant social issues into the country. several countries are working to address climate change, sea level rise, afflicting a specially southern florida right now. appsthers have developed to help keep our children to safe. this is especially important given the recent tragic spate of school shootings and the never ending question of personally identifiable private information geo-location,

especially the geo-location of our children. joining us is the ceo of shield group technologies. it has focused on the development of apps to improve communication between citizens and law enforcement, and hasicularly the company allowed his students and faculty to contact law enforcement about threats, including providing precise information about the location of the threat. tragedy, iarkland would like to learn more about student protests and how it can help law enforcement receive information about school threats. makebroadly, we need to

sure american workers have the right skills to participate in this part of the economy and push it over. --colleges and universities colleges and universities throughout florida have stepped up, from florida atlantic, with its tech runway, to florida polytechnic, and the university of south florida. our institutions of higher education or training the coders and entrepreneurs that will be designing the new wave of apps. tomorrow, the senate will vote on this resolution to restore strong net neutrality. i will have more to say about this on the floor, but it is going to be a continued discussion and debate, as we adjust to the ever-changing

technology we are using in our daily lives. >> thank you, senator nelson. panelists include mike of innovative mississippi and the founder of the coding academy of jackson. oh, researcher at the technology and policy institute in washington dc. act,eed, the president of the app association in washington, and mr. roger koch, of shield group technologies of west palm beach. we are delighted to have each and every one of you. we will begin to my left, with your opening statement. no more than five minutes, mr. forrester. you, chairman, and ranking members of the subcommittee.

on behalf of innovative mississippi and the mississippi cutting academies, i want to thank you for the opportunity to testify today on how we might be helping bridge this enormous gap which exists between high-tech employer needs for entry-level programmers and developers, and the available resources we have for community colleges and four-year colleges. before i delve into that, and i will be brief with my comments, i want to say a little bit -- our mission is to accelerate technology and innovation by connecting them to mentors and investment capital and to service providers. we have helped transform over 1200 ideas into real companies and those companies have raised over $170 million in capital and they have produced about 6000 jobs. all of that is very important

and we are proud that we do that with a small staff of six professionals. we have a budget of $1 million a year. half of that comes from private company sponsorships. our board is made up of private company executives, representatives from our research universities, the institute of higher learning and mississippi community college board. i am serving a two-year term as chairman. we not only from focus on connecting entrepreneurs with mississippi community college board. i am serving a two-year term as capital in providing mentors, we focus on building an ecosystem that allows those startups to arrive. and it was part of that charter that let us form the academies. in our state alone there are 1200 open jobs for coding professionals. our colleges and universities produce 250 science graduates a a year.

about half of them leave the state. there is an enormous gap just in our state. at the national level, it is more compelling. there are half of a million open jobs in programming and development today and it will grow to 1 million by the year 2020 and there are 43,000 computer science graduates to meet the 500,000 jobs. digitalnd for the economy will continue to grow and things like the app economy that we are scuffing -- discussing your today are going to worsen over time unless we do things differently. at the other end of the spectrum, there are a lot of highly motivated young people, who for various reasons, mostly socioeconomic, are not able to attend eight two-year or four-year college. yet many of them have the basic

analytical and creative skills to become coders. those jobs will enter them wages are equivalent to what many that college graduates will get and they are career type positions, not just dead-end jobs. i know you will find this hard to believe, but i have had five decades in this information technology business. i have seen it time and time again. you cannot predict based on background, based on education who is going to be a good developer, who will be a good programmer or a coder. some of the best i have ever known in my companies were music and arts majors. certainly a good number of them have math and science backgrounds, but you cannot predict who will be good at this. there is definitely a creative as well as an analytical component. so what are we doing last year -- what are we doing?

in the spring of last year four of us, and i am one of the founders, we went to the town of water valley, mississippi, where an innovative program had been started by a couple of c level executives who had been with a successful technology services company and they wanted to give something back. established the base camp coding academy up there. they wanted to prove that a high school graduate could go through an intensive 11 month program and emerge as what we would call a. developer. that is a programmer who has the ability to see the big picture. the database, the backend, the user interface, all the various components. not necessarily that they can do everything perfectly, but they had the ability to see the big picture and they had the ability to be productive. well, all of the graduates of that first class were hired by companies, like c-spire and

fedex and those kids all have , new and exciting careers in information technology. the founders did not want to expand beyond the areas that they were in, so with their permission, we took their ideas and approached the mississippi development authority and with the wholehearted support of our mccullough,d glenn the executive director dr. , andrea mayfield, who is the president of community colleges, and she is wonderful to work with -- she recognized that we were bringing a different spin to this problem and she has worked jointly with us to make it happen. today there are 25 students enrolled in two academies in our state. and we expect those locations to add three more classes in june of this year and we are actively discussing three other locations in the state for 2019.

we already have positions for the three classes that are starting in june. perhaps we can expound more on that during the question and answer. oh: chairman wicker, ranking membership, and members of the subcommittee. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. my name is sarah oh. i am a research fellow at the technology institute that studies the economics of instant

-- innovation and technological change. the app economy is an important source of economic growth. as an economist, my primary concern is growth and new business formations, jobs, research and development and , economic opportunity. apps create new markets and make existing markets more efficient, thereby promoting growth. however, some app innovation has raised questions related to privacy, connectivity, and artificial intelligence. the right policy responses require clearly identifying the problems want to solve and thinking carefully about the cost and benefits of any proposal. in short, we need to be careful of how to reduce or remedy that -- bad effects of this new economy without discouraging the innovation that drives economic growth and makes us all better off. as easy as it is to click our app button, we should remember that they call on a massive and deeply complex infrastructure to

deliver goods and services. server farms, cell towers, coders, math students, and lab -- labs dedicated to research and development all work behind the scenes to deliver the apps that are simple and easy to use. they deliver real-time data to billions of users, not just here in our country, but around the world. american companies reach a global market with apps. they make life easier and faster with artificial intelligence and cloud services. at tpi, we use cloud services for big data analysis. i'm amazed by how much computing power we can access today. our team of researchers can access world-class servers and only paid are the minutes that we use. the big data projects would have been impossible just a few years ago without these advances. but these advances come with new policy challenges.

regarding privacy, the economists question whether firms underinvest in data protection relative to some socially optimal level. if data breaches harm customers and firms are not period venting -- preventing those harms then , there might be room for intervention. but even if harms exists, regulators must be careful to do no harm themselves. regulations have real cost and benefits to the economy. it's important to remember that with any new regulation firms , will still behave strategically around the rules. firms will use regulations to benefit themselves and hurt competitors. regulation can have unintended newequences, disadvantage entries over incumbent firms, or vice versa. will allown gpr scholars and regulators to measure the effects of privacy legislation on innovation and economic growth. regarding connectivity it

, requires continued investment in broadband. the subcommittee knows about deployment and adoption challenges, the universal service fund and the economics of last mile connection. for 5g, 80,000 municipalities can hold up or speed up the expansion of wireless networks for small cells. policymakers need to stay focused on supporting investment to get everyone connected. regarding radio spectrum, the government has a lot of spectrum and federal agencies still use old inefficient equipment. economic growth is a priority, then the federal government can help the app economy clearing spectrum for connected devices. regarding ai, we recently hosted a conference on the policy applications of artificial intelligence. scholars discussed the limitations and potential in fields like medicine, central banking, and traffic rafting.

we discussed whether it is a general-purpose technology and the answer is we are not sure and how much human judgment , still matters. it does, a lot. in conclusion, the app economy drives economic growth, but we need to know what computers can and cannot do, how to measure harm, and whether rules can remedy these harms. we have more questions then we have answers and it will take careful thought in conversations like the one we are having today before we have good policy solutions. thank you for inviting me to testify. i look forward to answering your questions. reed?an wicker: mr. mr. reed: thank you. morgan reed and i am the president of the app association which represents , more than 5000 app makers, and connected device companies, and b2b software developers. we have members in all 50 states and all 435 congressional districts.

in our 2018 economy report, we but the value of the app economy at $950 billion employing 4.7 million people throughout the u.s.. the average salary is nearly double the median income at $86,000. our biggest single roadblock for growth is talent with more than , 500,000 open unfilled jobs in america today. how did we get here? smartphones have become the single most rapidly adopted technology in human history, outpacing innovations like the wheel, the printing press, fire, or even the microwave. in less than a decade we have put 10,000 years of collective human knowledge into the hands of three point 4 billion people, from ancient scrolls to diagrams of distant galaxies and catch videos, the smartphone brings the entire world to our fingertips and apps enable us to engage with it. gone are the days where developers created a piece of

software, cited to a publisher, shipped it into a box to a retail store and hoped the public would notice it. today software developers can reach a global market instantaneously through trusted -- through a swipe, click, or even a spoken command. the modern app economy is based on four major tenants -- connectivity of the network, we need 5g rollout, to help grow all aspects of the industry -- customer trust, consumer trust in mobile software products and services is inextricably linked to security, and encryption is a part of that. offloading overhead -- my members can offload overhead onto platforms like apple and cloud providers like microsoft. getting applications to market million torom $10 100 thousand dollars, and from months and years to a matter of weeks. finally, access to the global global marketplace -- global

marketplace. the global digital economy makes everyone equal in the eyes of consumers. while some think of apps as colorful icons on their smart phone, apps are in fact, two out revolutionizing business operations in america. of three businesses use apps for communication, company training, and other activities. link inventories and the shipping department all the way to the line supervisor at the manufacturing plant. for american businesses, mobile is not a luxury, it is a necessity to have a reliable platform and a constant mobile connectivity. the app economy is one of the it is no surprise nations leading employers. by 2025, computing jobs will go -- are expected to grow by 12.4% in mississippi and 6.4% in hawaii. these of the jobs of today harnessing analytics, analytics and iot, to create better products and services for all industries in the future. healthcare is a particularly

telling example. mobile software has revolutionized the way providers reach patients across the country. the university of mississippi medical center is a health initiative that brings special services to 82 counties that live more than a 40 minute drive from specialty care. the telehealth services bring remote monitoring to people in their homes without sacrificing quality of care. -- as well as honolulu-based health tech apps, they help veterans of combat recover with exercises they can do by using their mobile phone. senator, we also help to provide education and support for first

responders. we have software which helps maintain machinery fleets on construction sites and captures project data to ensure projects run efficiently and safely and cost-effectively. day, i want you to know there is a product going online that will change the lives of your constituents and the way they do business and interact with their families. i'm happy to spend all day talking about those stories, but i look forward to your questions and the way we can continue growth. thank you. reed.nk you, mr. koch: thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and talked briefly with you about how shield group technologies use the future of mobile technologies. while it may not command the , yournes and other issues

work will have a very long-term impact on the lives and futures of the american people. of a history midst where there are profound questions about the impact certain technologies have honor lives. technologies intrude on our privacy, they affect the growth and development of our children and its ability to be used by hostile powers are few of the concerns that americans rightly half. equal to these concerns is the extent to which mobile technology apps are not being utilized anywhere their potential -- neither potential to positively impact daily lives. the utilization of mobile technology has barely scratched the surface in its ability to positively impact us all.

many americans, apps are used mostly for personal entertainment. if you have any questions about this, look at what the person next to you is doing with their mobile device. chances are they are trying to check results on their fantasy team, or swapping colored candies in some type of game. i use apps for entertainment also, but there is so much more potential in mobile technology. done at shield group's develop ways for law enforcement and government to help us to communicate safely and better. is the mostaps powerful today for students, parents, teachers and staff, to provide a threat information to security officials in far enforcement for real-time use by law enforcement. it is not a simple app that simply sends an email somewhere. it provides law enforcement in

student administrators with intelligence that allows them to use information of -- efficiently to prevent violence. information used before this threat becomes a reality is critically important in school shootings and other acts of violence. students and other users can provide intelligence information that is assessed by multiple law-enforcement agencies and school officials simultaneously. it is powerful gps functionality that tax for the intelligence school administrators to send down security information on a wide variety of parameters. led to thelogy has application of multiple perpetrators, as well as the threat of law enforcement to intervene behavioral and mental health systems. that i don't more have time to go over right now, but any information you would

like i can pass down to you. protect also unites residents with law enforcement with 28 communication and crime reporting. our state of the art secure share of mobile technology provides law enforcement with encrypted means of distributing sensitive intelligence to law enforcement officers in the field. when i turn on the news every day, i now appears something about how it is not a matter of communicating sensitive information. to userican ability mobile technology is accelerating at an amazing pace. this is more than just entertainment. this is law-enforcement -- law

state andt, federal local government connections will allow taxpayers to share information and save money increasing the effectiveness of the services delivered. chairman, and. ,he members of this community for this opportunity, as well as the law enforcement professionals that serve americans every day. in particularly in senator nelson's home state of florida. and the innovative solutions for better law-enforcement has been a constant source of innovation and challenges that has helped us meet the demand of law enforcement agencies everywhere. thank you again. wicker: thank you to all of you for some intriguing testimony. reed mentioned the annual

average salary of $86,000, double the national average. this is in the field about technology. technology.app there is such great demand we are nearly filling those slots. perhaps we need to talk about apprenticeships, and while you think of that, mr. reed, let me ask mr. forester, what is it about your academies that frees you from government red tape and allows you to respond more quickly to the needs of industry? think about the salariess of $86,000

and 440,000 additional jobs? mike: i have every confidence those numbers are real. state, all of our starting salaries are in the $50,000-$60,000 range, but they quickly moved up for more experienced developers. the thing that eliminates this. startck issue, we must with private industry. partner thatgreat is a public entity as well. but the employer must be engaged, they must set the curriculum. we don't want to be teaching with the technology is worth 10 or even five years ago. this industry reinvents itself

in terms of programming technology, development technology, continuously. only through a very tight relationship with industry are we able to quickly respond to those needs. they help us set the curriculum. we go out and visit instructors on site. liketudents see what it is to be in the workplace. those things make us different and they are our distinction characteristics. chairman wicker: mr. reed? morgan: right now, in mississippi, you have 25% of the population without broadband, and over 50% of the populace without it and rural -- in rural areas. right now, he is training great mississippians to be great coders.

we had over 50 ceos in town and i asked, how many employees people who don't work at your home location or in your state? i had 100% of my ceos saying they are willing to hire people who aren't in their state. the problem we have with a state like mississippi, is a great coder goes home and does not have broadband, how are my people going to hire him? that is why we look at solutions hire5g, because i will your people if they can do the job and you train them well, but they have to have broadband. chairman wicker: can you talk about the work of whitespace? morgan: there are pilot projects right now, inter-primary focus is in rural communities. it is extreme -- incredibly expensive to play line down. i

-- pull al ine down. but if we can get broadband connectivity to rural populations, we can change their ability to live and compete in the job market in the global environment. what type ofer: this andtually takes makes an agreement? morgan: this is being pioneered by a company based out of senator caldwell's home state. they have been on the front edge of this. they have been partnering with local isps -- chairman wicker: they are a part of this? morgan: right. whitespace is wi-fi, essentially. but how can wi-fi go a lot farther than it does on the 2.4 gigahertz? chairman wicker: back to the

statistics you gave about mississippi, there have been similar statistics about all the other states. that in a form you could enter into the record? morgan: absolutely. chairman wicker: that will be entered into the record without objection. you know we are having a debate, mr. reed, with the fcc about the reliability of their maps on this very topic. are you telling me your group has done a study that is different and uses different information? organ: we have done a combination of studies, but at the root of all this is the fc'' s data. have moreove to accurate data. we had meetings with all the commissioners on the forms of

the parties to talk about getting data to make a better analysis of the question you are raising. if you dig deep enough in one source of data, it all goes back to the fcc. how do we getr: better data? do you have suggestions for us? dr. oh? oh: we use fcc data as well. we find it is often delayed by two or three years. of that part conversation about getting better data. i would be adjusted to know how expensive it is to update data faster. money allocated for other things can be put towards maps. there are a lot of things the

on, andpending on, prioritizing maps could be one of them. chairman wicker: i will go back to mr. bede -- mr. reed. no one is really happy with these maps. suggest there is a better set of data. but givenere are, our timeframe, i am happy to wayswith your staff about we can pull the data from existing sources, as well as the fact most americans are carrying a smartphone in their pocket. use all the information from access on the wireless side from the phones themselves? chairman wicker: thank you. schatz: it seems to me --

it seems to me they are switching the problems -- everyone knows their maps are not accurate. says, if youairman have data points, we will be happy to assimilate it, but what we want is the most accurate map. if an individual state or community is unable for resource reasons to marshal the data to this is their maps, literally the job of the fcc to get this right. this chairman and i are disagreeing on net neutrality, we could not agree more strongly on this issue. when it comes to the act onomy, you- app ecno have a workforce problem, and

broadband, wi-fi, potential solution sets, 5g and everything else. gets always important to the technical pieces of this right. but the question i want to ask, we have the best tech in history. although we are talking about some really exciting technologies that can transform way, i in a positive would like reassurance from you that we are not simply providing infrastructure to allow people to purchase what they want just a little faster. it seems a lot of the tech money is in that space. it is not a coincidence that are whiteof vc's males and the problems they have is a different problem set than the rest of society.

when they think about a killer app, they often think about something that relates to their own personal convenience, and that is where capital flows. roger: i agree with you there is bigger problems with this. have a connectivity problem. when you can go to places and people cannot use their smart phones, we have huge problems. you see it every day. my partner yesterday had to buy a new phone because he was in a place in virginia where he could not use it and he had to buy a different phone from a different service. what bigtz: but to problem -- what big problem are we going to solve? not just, i would like a slurpee now. we are short on time, so i would like to move along.

telehealth makes one of the largest changes possible. large amount of money reimbursing for health care. they got reimbursed $14 million for telemedicine. if you see a doctor at the top of his game, the top of her game, since more physicians are now women, she is likely to have seen about 29,000 patients by the time she sees you, but a patient with your condition, genotype, you are lucky if she has seen 500 people. she is going to make a determination on how to treat you based on what she learned in -- took inch he can education, and 500 data points. is the are looking for ability to on that position with augmented intelligence so when

they walk in to treat you, they know you respond better to this medication, this gentleman responds better to that, she responds better along these lines. that is one of the most important problems we can solve. we are saving lives there to be saved if we are able to make that difference. >> doctor? oh: one of the hopes of artificial intelligence is that we want robots to do complex tasks. robots folding one jury is the result of millions of hours of manual labor done mostly by women that can be used for something else. folding laundry for a robot is a complex task. it is not easy. that is what ai scientists are doing. able to are going to be do those manual tasks people don't have to do any more. terminator, or

there are many many things that if we could get a robot to do, it would save a lot of time. sen. schatz: it is not obvious time you havery something done by a computer or robot, it is alloyed good. are some instances, especially as it relates to safety, there is a clear, moral choice. it is not obvious to me that the purpose of the up economy is to even straight employment along the way, and create a future where very few people are paid to do anything. thank you. >> may i add a quick comment? >> with the permission of the chairman, and i am sure he will say so, because he is from your state. >> [laughter] mike: if you visit our classes, they are 50 percent women, 80%

minority. three of my four instructors are minority. we don't have white male dominated academies. several of those students have already expressed they got interested in building their own apps and being entrepreneurial from that standpoint. it is another aspect of bringing that portion of our citizenry and him people into really productive jobs in those demographics are compelling. i might noteer: z has fourschat original cosponsors, including and warner, and he is to be congratulated for having 23 cosponsors. senator cadwell. cadwell: thank you for

your work in your home state. i have always said we need to be more aggressive about our coding education. is so mucheral role more limited than the state wall. i refer to my experience of latin.to take typing and today, our mandatory language requirement should be one year of coding in our schools. that would give everyone the point about never being able to break date -- to predict what student is going to be good at coding. .orgvite you to visit code or any of our other institutions on the subject. mr. reed, i want to talk to you about the app economy because you represent the association and your comments about efficiency and constant mobile conductivity.

i thought you could write on the head about this issue which is , what the app economy needs and what the businesses who rely on the app economy need. i can't tell you the list of farming applications i have everything from managing seen livestock to predictability , about whether. it is a very science-based sector and needs that kind of monetary --connectivity. i see you are for net neutrality , and open internet into quantifying that information. what does it mean if we don't have that kind of rule of the road for efficiency and conductivity of those devices? and, you don't have to talk just about the farm economy. large,h large, -- writ what are people looking for? organ: we have connected 3.4

billion people with the world connected information. people seek knowledge about what they want to do. it senators point about, shouldn't be fun and games, people are saying, i want to do more, something different, i want to reach a different group of people than i can in my hometown. the door that is open is amazing. knowledge, access, interactivity's. without certainty about the roles of the road, how do we get to those rule communities? is connected,yone if the other side is still has blank spots. we have to make sure people in all parts of the state have access to connectivity. there are codified rules for how we get there. i think you are right, figuring out how the senate codifies that is an important next step. cantwell: seeing the

it isof incubator, and saying, we use these apps every day. andto manage our business, the customers. if someone slows that down, i am going to be less efficient in delivering services. is the concern for us. companies are saying, i will give you high speed broadband today, but only if you take are expensive bundle. our expensive bundle. what consumers are worried about is that the app economy is going , and somehowed they are artificially slowed down or throttled into that is going to be a problem for them -- down and that is going to be

a problem for them. i am in support of clarifying this now. to your point, whether you are the moste, one of connected places in the country, or on the other side of the thee, you still want efficiency that comes from all these applications. if that is information in the beud, you don't want to slowed down from getting access to it. going to, you're not be running an efficient business. isn't that what so many of the apps are based on? morgan: we are not only about efficiency, we are about solving problems. but i take your point to heart. this is something our community is aware of and engaged on. well: i hope companies will take time to understand how

much this is about small businesses starting something new and being competitive. that is why we need to have net neutrality. thank you. icker: senator cortez masto is next. cortez-masto: i want to talk on something i am really interested in, coming from nevada. sen. satorouch on what schatz said, it is more than about ordering a slurpee. we are using smart technology and transportation apps to seamlessly integrate the user's experience in the community and better address safety and accessibility. what we have seen in northern an apt our regional

transportation commission put together. we have seen southern nevada regional transportation put together an rtc app, with so much potential. i am going to open this up to the panel. beatty, can you talk more about how you envision these it comesticularly when to the intersection between smart technology and smart communities? how will these be transforming the future? eed: it is a great point you raise. if you think about what makes a community, it is about the bond that you have with people in common interests and municipalities. the way that we go about our lives, where we go to church, where we go to eat.

when people are using apps, it is about how they build communities. the web of interactions they have with other people. with totality's, we are looking at people outside their communities who don't have access to transportation that have a hard time with emergency care? we are using artificial intelligence chat bots to deal with people who have language barriers for emergency personnel. you don't use the community emergency room if you are worried they won't understand you out the front door. we are looking at how you take the brilliance of applications and turn it into something small in the right way. that means it is part of your community. with liquids, axis two facilities, transportation, and to gain what you want, and improves community. cortez masto: and it is bringing that connectivity and

utilizing it, it is that interaction. : we have worked with the national league of cities on some of the smartest cities. i did a panel with them on this exact topic. ree real lessons to learn we the ideas of community building blocks. get to and from your house and from work, and from the place of worship or other activities? how do you engage the services cities provide? how do you enjoy yourself? a smart city is also a fine city. -- is also a fun city. it has to be a city that gives you something vibrant to interact with. you are right on point. the question, how do we use iot to enable a better community?

sen. cortez masto: part of what i also see happening as i work with our regional transportation commissioners, in nevada and across the country, as we build this infrastructure, we better be building the guardrails for privacy and security. it is the easiest time for us to incorporate such infrastructure. codinghave talked about and the need to ensure we are teaching the younger generation in the schools, coding, but how do we get the talent on the security side? how do we be sure we are incorporating a security piece of that? let me open it to the panel. one: you put your finger what clearly is going to be an increasingly important part of, let's just say, the development

community's responsibilities. we are working with dr. mayfield, who i mentioned at the community colleges, to partner with them to put a cyber curriculum, if you will, that might be a next level of coursework for our people, or to provide it more generally for our existing i.t. professionals. like all the other techniques we need to use, it is going to need to be developed, and will be have to be given a lot of emphasis and investment. it is ultimately an achilles heel.

roger: what we see constantly is that there are older technologies that don't talk to each other. agencies arent trying to talk to each other, but they can't, because their systems don't talk to each other. we are writing code to get one you can actually share information and cross-reference it. morgan: there are 200,000 jobs in the cyber security area. anything you can do to make nevadans more likely to hire, i would be open to that. masto: thank you. chairman wicker: senator? sen. blumenthal: i want to talk about privacy.

punishment never fits the likeliest outcome, emerging tech companies will approach enforcement as nothing more than the cost of doing business. you were commenting on the penalties against snapchat over nothing morees, than the cost of doing business. apparently the same was true of facebook as we now learned from the recent revelations about cambridge analytica. about privacyules enforcement that congress should impose at this point? have we learned our lesson? and, the general data protection regulation -- everyone in europe is now going to have to follow that. be her andamericans he blessed privacy than europeans -- be guaranteed less

privacy than europeans? morgan: that comment from four years ago makes me sound smart. it is still true today. one of the things congress and this committee can do because it is still true today. i think one of the things congress can do, this committee in particular, i think we are about to have a full slate of ftc commissioners. they need to look at enforcement from two lenses. one, how do you fix a problem. and two, how do you make a difference? and in the gepr question, the problem we have with gdpr, we don't know which gdpr it is. we had a series of letters come out of the article 29 working party that radically changed most interpretations of gdpr. so, on gdpr writ large, i think that there's still a lot to be seen. what does it mean. how do we implement it. my members are taking it seriously. we have a whole series of blogs on how do small businesses comply with it.

you may have missed my earlier testimony. what is worth noting is every single one of my members, the one man shops to the largest, they are part of the global economy. we are taking gdpr seriously. but we don't know what it means in all places yet. sen. blumenthal: we may not be sure of what it means in all places, but we know about the general principle. minimizing data. providing for consent. enabling transparency. consumers should know which data should be collected. there are basic principles here that they are nowhere near adopting right? mr. reed: it is great it is coming from you with your legal background. one of the problems we have are the basic principles and how we want to communicate them to our users and the legal requirements that avoid liability.

which you brought up earlier. so, how do we for example on machine learning, data minimizization is great on concept. and something we help build and something we are really proud of. the "know what's inside" program, 500 plus developers with thousands of apps for kids. one of the problems when we move into machine learning is okay. how do i do data minimizing and provide tooling for health care? on the point of transparency, that's great. but i spent a year working with mtia and others for the short form privacy notice. when we field tested that with users they wanted something very different. it is a work in progress. the best results i have seen so far are what we have seen out of apple, microsoft, and just in time notification. meet the customer where they are. tell them how the data is being used. when it is being grabbed or taken and tell them how you are going to use it later and finally provide another interface if they want to say i want that back.

but all the points you raise and the key principles you are outlining are important. how we get there and deal with the liability is the part we are still working on. sen. blumenthal: i know that it is a complex area. but, my feeling is that the absence of some line in the sand, some right lines, even though in practice, there may have to be complexity in all of the subheadings of those principles as applied to different apps and so forth. that absence will mean nothing is done. and, five years from now, we will be having the same conversation. and i just fear that your prediction, that the punishment really changing and never

fitting the offense, it is the cost of doing business, will mean that these app developers will just keep pushing the envelope against privacy interests. so, my time has expired. i'm sorry to end on a pessimistic note. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you senator. i need to apologize to senator hassan. she should have been recognized before senator bloomenthol. -- before senator blumenthal. >> you can blame it on me mr. chairman. >> okay. and so, senator you are now recognized. senator hassan: thank you chairman wicker and ranking member shots. i am having an afternoon where i would like to have roller skates so sitting still for a couple of minutes is a good thing. to all of the panelists, thank

you very much for being here. it is excellent to hear from all of you about what the future holds for the mobile economy. jobs, new efficiencies. we really do hold great promise. and that is why i work with senator gardner and we are working with others who introduced the airways app and creating the safe pipeline for the resource the economy needs on. this will make major investments broad band promote inknow nation. the air waves act will ensure that the united states is prepared to engage in the global race. do you agree the additional spectrum is necessary for the mobile economy of the future? and if you do, do you agree the steps were necessary for the mobile economy to thrive and for us to remain a leader in the global 5g?

dr. oh: yes. absolutely. i think congress is one of the only bodies that can push federal spectrum out. and i think every legislative act that does so is really good for the economy. and 20 years from now, the app economy will be divisive. any way you can release spectrum now is a good thing. senator hassan: anybody else want to comment? well, thank you for that answer. another reason i am glad to be working with senator gardner on the air waves act, we developed a mechanism to focus on rural economies and communities new hampshire has significant rule areas that lack the connectivity we take for granted in urban markets. i'm sure that is true of other areas. it would set apart 10% of proceeds to serve underserved areas.

it is a real down payment on the mobile future for royal consumers. it could mean billions of dollars for rural deployment. do you have thoughts on what other steps we might take to get the mobile economy to rural areas in new hampshire and throughout the country and again, anybody wants to answer. mr. reed: i am from an even larger state of alaska. i will tell you, one of if areas earlier i discussed was the need on how to expand tv wide spaces to do broad band for rural communities. i think the area really important to hit on that is empowering rule communities with broad band is not about giving them something to look at and play with, but it enabled them to stay there and get a job. they are training people in

rural areas. and they don't have to leave mississippi or your great state to work for our companies. it is not to make people happy but enployed. senator hassan: do you have anything to add mr. forester? mr. forster: in the near term, we are highly focused on employment opportunities that exist with traditional employees but i can tell you that we must provide this capability broadly across states like yours and mind. because so many of these people will be in areas notes serviced well otherwise. and they cannot realize the potential of what they might wish to do. we not only meet mississippi's requirements but we are

providing resources to other states. as soon as we are in that position, guess what? we are limited unless we can provide the very, very high broad band access they will need to work in austin, but live in mississippi. sen. hassan: thank you. i know others have mentioned the issue. i wanted to touch on the issue of our mapping. the fcc is working to implement a program called mobility fund space to provide resources for our mobile networks. the fcc's map of networks is inaccurate and leaves rural communities in the state of mississippi without much recourse. senators moran, wicker, and i are working to get these apps updated. what additional advice do you have for rural communities that hope to keep pace with innovation and what more can we do here at the federal government state localities and the private sectors to assist our rural communities?

dr. oh: i just would like to note that the universal service fund and that push and high cost fund is $4 billion every year. so, what this group can do is take a closer look at where's the money going. are we geting the best bang for our buck. and, it really is a constant stream of money. so, there is an additional $5 million for broad band recently. where's the money going? so i think more studies and more inquiries to the fcc status updates and studies. sen. hassan: well thank you. i see i'm out of time. thank you mr. chair. chairman wicker: thank you, senator hassan. senator marky? sen. markey: thank you. i love hearings on mobile technologies. back in -- unbelievably back in

the early 19 1980s , the chairman of at&t asked how will they have a wireless device? and the chairman of at&t testifying before congress said " one million people in america. "one million people in america." and we had given them the spectrum for free. that was their vision. at&t. so that wasn't good. and we had given another company all this for free. so i got a little discouraged. , so in 1993, i was able to move over 200 megahertz of spectrum for the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh licenses but not allow the first to encompass the bid. they were charging 50 cents a minute. and the phone was the size of a brick. so by 1995, 1996, everyone had one of these phones. flip phone.

it was digital, not analog. ten years later along comes steve jobs and we are moving this way. so, we just keep moving. moving. you know? in the right direction. but one of the key ingredients will be having net neutrality on the books. for wireless devices as well. because everything is moving over to wireless. we know the history and history is not good. it is a rich long history that informs everything that we are going here. and net neutrality is something that by necessity has to be on the books. in 2005, a north carolina base provided the madison river communication block. the online voice service to favor their own service. in 2007, ap found comcast was severely blocking down bit torrents of website that offer

consumers to share video, music, video game files. comcast was not happy with that. 2007, 2009, at&t forced apple to block skype and offer other competing voiceover internet protocol services. so they would use their power network control to push people toward their own services. and so, the long rich history is that the innovation comes from the competitors. when you are in control of the network, your innovation is really in how do you block? how do you stop? how do you push around those who are seeking to innovate in the space and it went on and on. year after year, i can just go through all of the different examples. why net neutrality is needed. so as we move deeper and deeper

into this wireless world, can we ask each of you, did you support the obama era net neutrality rules when they were put on the books? did you support that mr. forester? mr. forster: i'm probably not really a good source for a comment there. sen. markey: you don't have a view? mr. forster: i have a personal view. sen. markey: what is your personal view? mr. forster: that the net should be free and open as it can be. and it is going to drive continued economy. dr. oh: my view is that title one was the regime for the last ten, 1 years. years -- 10, 12 years. and so, i would say title one. sen. markey: mr. reed? mr. reed: we support the four principles of net neutrality and are looking forward to having a solution that holds up over the length of time.

sen. markey: so, you would not put the existing rules back on the books? is that what you are saying? mr. reed: we do not have a version of the books that go on with more than 5,000 members as we are looking at it. sen. markey: i just wondered if you wanted the strongest version. that's the version we are going to vote on tomorrow. the strongest version. mr. koch: it is us being a small company. we want equal representation and to have the same speed and access as everyone else. sen. markey: and, as you know, the court struck down the rules of title one. so, i know what your preference is. but, the courts actually struck them down when they moved in that direction.

so, so, this is a big historic vote that we are going to have tomorrow. and, again, in the wildest world, it is going to be absolutely imperative that you can't be discriminated against. you can't be blocked. you can't be told what you can and can't do. this is like oxygen. you know. to young people. but to the people who are not so young as well. if we want to preach openness, we shouldn't want to teach temperance from our school. we should stand up ourselves. this will be the most historic vote we will have on keeping the internet as open and free as it should be. chairman wicker: i'm not sure you got the answers you were hoping for. but thank you for the questions. senator udall. sen. udall: thank you chairman wicker. all of you have pointed out that the app economy is an innovative part of the economy. and has revolutionized how we navigate our lives. we have heard about the history and overview. the innovations raised questions about children growing up in a

digital world. parents are forced to make choices between their children's privacy and getting their kids to engage in an increasingly online world. i with senator hassan have written to youtube about the youtube kids app directing children to conspiracy theory videos and about the need to respect the privacy of children. and i also plan on contacting other major app developers and platforms as part of the effort to ensure the children's privacy is protected. mr. reed, last month, the washington post reported on a study by the international computer science institute at the university of california berkeley finding that thousands of children's apps on google were violating the child's online privacy protection act.

the article identified popular "where's mysney's ?" and the game loft's "minion rush." what does your association believe the federal trade commission should and can do to avoid violations of capa? mr. reed: it has been one of my most interesting exercises the 15 years i have been working on this to try to figure out the breadth and scope of capa. i testified when senator marky was congressman marky. we have to figure out how to meet parents where they are. when it comes to developers abiding by it, that's the law. and they need to do it. we built a network with more than 500 moms with apps but then dads were involved as well and it became the no it's inside program. -- became the "know what's

inside" program. all the developers fully compliant. here was the interesting part we ran into. the parents found the friction difficult. the parents were the ones we had to figure out, how do you engage better? that's when you saw platforms and others taking a, what we call, "just-in-time" notification. how do we get the parents' attention when it matters? not when i load them with consent mechanisms. we are looking at a world under capa, how do we comply with their rigors. there are 150 items on the faq at this point and meet parents with the way they behave. that has been one of the most difficult challenges on making capa work. also provider a parental perspective. they want the kid to see what the kid wants to see. main thing, the fcc need to do more. and they need to do more publicly. we personally, i personally and our association brought examples of violations to them.

and they were solved by the services. and there was no visible flurry in the water. they need to use their bully pulpit to take the most obvious offenders. keeping in mind it's the parents we have to make sure we educate. >> yeah, focusing a little bit and drilling down on the ftc enforcement. in the past two years, how often has the ftc enforced with the app developers? >> this is the ftc, the reality of the situation. which is the ftc has been active behind the scenes in meeting with hundreds, maybe thousands of developers. in terms of big public enforcement we are at a small number at this time.

that is not to say they have not been bringing people in. my point to you, we need to do some of these publicly so there can be some understanding by my community and the parental community what is expected of them. what is expected of us and how do we meet in the middle. >> many of the app developers are based in lithuania and china. do you think most app developers including ones located overseas are fully aware of the requirements of capa and that what you are saying would help is ftc being aggressive. >> it is fascinating. everybody is global. it is creating a whole new series of regimes. they can't do it in europe. you talk about lithuania. i'm hearing them say how do i

meet with them at the same time. i actually think weirdly enough, where we are right now with gdpr is going to help and i would like the ftc to use some of its powers to go after specific companies to make people more aware of their requirements. sen. udall: great, thank you very much. i know i'm over time mr. chairman. i will submit a couple of additional questions. chairman wicker: many of us went over time today. because it is such a good topic. i want to thank the members of the subcommittee. and the members of the panel. for a very, very fine hearing today. my staff has told me i have to close with a statement that the

hearing record will remain open for two weeks. during this time, senators are asked to submit any questions for the record upon receipt, the witnesses are requested to submit their written answers to the committee as soon as possible. and that is about as flexible as i have ever heard. so thank you very much, ranking member shots. and other members of the sub -- of the subcommittee. this hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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>> good evening. i want make a joke, you know it is a catholic event when there is no one in the front row. >> i will take the collection for myself. otherwise. thank you for being here. my name is chris and i am a program associate at democracy fund. we are a foundation established -- by the ebay founder to make sure american people come first in our democracy. for the past year we've partnered with the georgetown initiative for a series of dialogues on f