>> tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two, the memorial anniversary of the assassination of robert f kennedy from arlington national cemetery. featured speakers ilu fambs of congress and former president bill clinton. watch the rfk 5h memorial service on c-span two. >> an author and so maker discussed his recent pardon from president trump after pleading guilty to illegal campaign contributions. this washington journal interview is 35 minutes. washington journal continues. host: dinesh desousa is an author, filmmaker and most recently in the news for receiving a parom presidt trump, joining us from houston, texas. good morning. guest: good morning.

host: could you remind viewers of the situation that caused you to get the pardon in the first place? guest: yes. my collegeriend wendy long was running for the u.s. senate in new york in 2012. we've been friends for 25 years. i gave h $10,000, the campaign-finance limits. ed to do more for her campaign. i convinced two of my friends to donate $10,000 apiece. i reimed i exceeded the campaign-finance limit by $20,000. host: how would someone else have been fined or punished for doing that and how did you end up going to a facility for that? case, i was aical first-time offender. the main point, my motive was not corpt. the candidate did not even know that i did this.

in cases like that were no corruption is involved in my -- mixed guided affection for a friend those casendled with community service an fine. in my case, that was not so. host: was that because of the things you had said that the obama administration? guest: i think it did. my reason is twofold. mt2012 i released documentary film subtitled obama's america. i know the president was mad about it. a few weeks later the fbi came .anging on my door no case in american history where someone has been

prosecuted. host: is thargument that yo lawyeinhis case. your conten.osecution, that guest: i now kw little more about se. the congressional oversight committee has a copy of my fbi file. the fbi when they found out about me assigned $100,000 at the outset to investigate this case. .hat is strange there is no reason to highlight

my conservative politics. int: the judge in this case his judgment saying there w n eviden odiriminatory effect or purpose. what do you make of that reaction? guest: we are talkt clton appointee judge. we told him the only way to show -- to look inside the fbi files and in the government files, normally obtainable, the judge flatly refuse to let us see the .ile saying there is no select a prosecution but he would not let us find out if there really was. us forr. desousa is with the next half hour. (202) 748-8001 four republicans -- for republicans.

(202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for iepdent. you are on with dinesh desousa, go ahead. caller: ptpardon is an admission of guilt. stuff, little alibis and he's giving tm ay by accepting this pardon. guest: first of all i think that is logically idiotic. if someone is wrongly convicted pressured oror is bludgeoned into making a plea deal and then you are pardoned like something the part you are doing no more than clearing your record and rectifying the original injustice so the notion that just because you accepted a pardon automatically means you are guilty is reasoning for stupid people. host: you eventually pleaded guilty to this. guest: you have to realize the process that leads to this. what the government does is they

try to threaten you with all kinds of preposterous and redundant charges. we will get you for mail fraud. you put the check in the mail. thanks rod. -- bank fraud. we are going to get you for filing a false document. i didn't file any documents. but the guys who sent the money in the filed -- they say we are going to send you to prison for years and years, it will destroy your reputation and your life unless you plead to this thing in which case we will drop the rest of it. this kind of bludgeoning tactic pressures the innocent into pleading guilty. caller: i wanted to ask a question. are you an immigrant? guest: i came to america at the age of 17. caller: that's interesting. thed a question about

intersection of propaganda and information especially when it comes to media. the citizen united thing came from a movie right? kind of what you went through came from a movie. interesting what you thought rightin whatever you wanto call it, taking up something the left uses a l, media. i will sit and listen. guest: i think there's a greater realization not just of the importance of popular culture, but the real emotional power of throughto reach people their heads and hearts. for years i was a writer and speaker. i don't think the obama administration would have regarded me as important enough to go after. in 2012 i released a movie in 2000 theaters, the second-highest grossing political documentary ever made. that movie upset obama. people will say what makes you think he

cares about your movie. the reason i think that is because shortly after the movie came out attacks on it began to appear on a website called barack obama.com. that's how i know the narcissist was upset about my movie. host: what kinds of things did you say about him particularly? -- do you think that caused wh he think the white house reacted because of that? guest: here's a sample from that movie. obama had been traipsing around the country chanting the phrase we are our brother's keeper. his argument for economic redistribution and obamacare. i went to kenya and i found obama's actual brother living in a sort of third world slum in the muck of nairobi. i asked him, what has obama done for you and the guy says nothing. this guy has not lifted a finger to help me. this kind of thing in a movie

when i'm talking to obama's actual brother transcends the debate about obamacare. showing the president of the united states to be a hypocrite and i think obama did not like that. he's a patty guy and h apos to go after me. caller: good morning. i want to ask a question that i want to make a comment. ofe you not found guilty campaign-finance violations? guest: i was. caller: ok. you think the mayor can people are stupid and idiotic. as a black woman you are -- i am offended that you would go after the first black president to

demean and malign him and what you said about michelle obama, as a black woman, you are right. we are very upset. talking about narcissism, what about this narcissistic person in the white house now? that's not narcissism? the only reason you're on c-span person when we have --ican-americans philadphia eagles. why don't you have some of the eagles on this morning? think as a black person i would think you would realize just because someone has been convicted of a crime does not necessarily me they are guilty or that they've received equitable and fair treatment. is criminal justice system far from equitable not just in a racial sense but in a political sense. to give an example, rosie o'donnell, the comedian,

admitted she hlated gn-fcampaiance law five times in five separate jurisdictions. in theory, five u.s. attorneys could file charges against her today but there is no talk of her being charged because there is no corruption involved in her case rosie goes if i gave too much money give me the money back and i would have liked to have gotten that treatment. host: from, independent line. caller: i'm glad to speak to youcaller:. .e re-watched your movie e other calls.tioned in on we watched it from beginning to end and i want to thank you for making that movie. my question to you is going to be when you spoke to his brother and when you went to the grave ,ite of the former president off camera you impart any information on how their society, their culture also felt

out h. when eric holder put you in a cell how did you feel about that day? kenya aten i was in the obama family homestead i got a window into obama. we think of obama, the first african-american president, civil rights guy. we might think of him in connection to the ciri moveme. obama's ideology is anticolonial. obama wrote a book, dreams from my father. part of what i wanted to do was learn about his father and his father was this african socialist who hated the west, hated america and wanted to have global redistribution of wealth away from the industrialized countries and to third world countries. thesis that this is obama, was president

trying to achieve. , i was locked up overnight for eight months in a confinement center

up -- host: from our republican line, karen. caller: i'm very happy that president trump pardoned you. . ouould do something about anla merkel. angelanot vladimir putin merkel made the statements. out for a nobel .eace prize she never even got i don't know if germany is ever going to come back from what she has done. host: thanks, karen. thank you.

guest: i will say that europe is hecing a serious problem best ans take them at game against that seem largely digest -- largely indigestible. german?ey become a can a pakistani becoming lisman? -- become an englishman? america has been a better solvent for assimilation than europe. we have done better with immigrants here than over there. people tend to attack president trump for being a racist and this is based on the fact that trump is supposedly against immigrants. trump has always drawn the line and illegallegal immigrants. it's important to realize most legal immigrants who come to america are nonwhite. and come from asia, africa president trump has never said

he wants merely white immigrants from iceland or new zealand and fewer immigrants from barbados or bombay. he just does not want illegal immigrants to break the law and come here in the wrong way. joe, goodington, d.c. morning. caller: good morning. , hented to mr. desousa is a film writer and all. supporting your base, that is ok. you are equipped to attack obama. now you are being supported by the president and administration. it works like that. at night when you sit down to you look at yourself and think you are not so secure after all. none of us are. i think that sometimes we get so

partial that we can do more damage thanood. you may do some things that tablesxpose and turn the . at the end of the day, see who you are. youare still mr. dinesh and may be in that culture and that environment that supports you and makes you feel good and successful. that's all well and good. host: thank you, joe. politics comes from. when you talk about things like my base, i don't run for office. i don't have a base. i'm a nonwhite immigrant who came to america with $500 in my pocket. i've seen the american dream as ofelieve in matters opportunity that enable people who start out at the bottom be able to climb up the ladder and make a better life for themselves. when i look at the two parties

it seems to me one of them is offering me a ladder and the other is offering a rope. you got democrats on the top of 't ve to try but we will lower a rope to you, you grab onto it and we willl you up. i say to myself you are going to pull me up but then i am dependent on you. what if you let go of the rope? i would rather see a ladder propped up against a wall and climb up on my own and have a earned achiement instead of someone else giving it to me. this is the reason i leaned to the republican side politically to protect host: letters of opportunity. you heard from the president once. have you heard from him since he received your pardon or anyone from the white house? guest: no. the kind of call that was talking about something that was a done deal. essentially trump said i will be announcing this by tweet tomorrow morning and he did.

sithen i have been out talking about it. my prosecutor preet bharara has been on cnn. the nash voluntarily pleaded guilty. what he does not say is all of the strong-arm tactics the government uses to get you to do that. they basically bludgeon you into it and put on a pompous road and go he voluntarily did it. i'm glad we are having this debate. political justice is a terrible thing. we want lady justice to be blind and not selective. hod in a way. u say? guest: twitter is a rough medium. we tend to fire back and forth sometimes in the heat of the moment. i did what i call my karma is a bitch tweet.

you thought you could advance your career by being a little water carrier for obama in getting me but now you got fired and i got part -- pardoned. host: jessica in virginia. caller: i have two quick questions. the first is, you have claimed that in your act of committing election fraud that there was no corrupt intent. you used donors which would be indicative of premeditation and from premeditation would conclude there's corrupt intent. how would you go about explaining that? if you generally believe you were coerced into pleading guilty, what have you done, if anything to advocate criminal justice reform? guest: your first question had to do with corrupt intent. you're right.

i had intent. i used straw donors. i was trying to get around the campaign finance limits you have admitted to that from the beginning. i nevedenied it. i was on megyn kelly's show before my trial talking about it. wasn't corrupt intent? what corrupt intent mns is that you are trying to get something out of it. there are lots of cases which the government has prosecuted were someone says i will get this money for you and then i want to be appointed judge or i will get thinet i want my business to get a tax break. this is what the law calls quid pro quo. the essential definition of corruption. when there is no corrupt intent and a first-time offense as in my case and when the amount involved is quite small, $20,000, there is case in the history of the united states where somebody was indicted, prosecuted, locked up for eight months, sentence to psychiatric counseling, given probation for

five years for this kind of an offense. it is unheard of so it suggests that these guys were trying to, se ways, carry out a vendetta for what i had said about prent obama. criminal justice reform is badly needed. said i wasasically not a very self reflective man and he w me by ordering me to undergo mandatory psychiatric counseling. think of my fence. i did not commit a perverted deal. i gave moneymy year -- a friend of 25 years running for senate. my motives were obvious. one writer characterized as misguided loyalty to a friend. the judge thought i had to go to

a shrink for this. i characterize this as a reeducation program. click i was trying to get me to kowtow to obama. if i have started making regular appearances on msnbc he would have pronounced me cured. host: let's hear from andrea in michigan. republican line. caller: i'm just so very happy that president trump pardoned you. i've seen ur movies. i'm an african-american female and all these people calling in , you really got imprisonment because of what you did against obama. ople so much in denial especially my own race. they will call in and probably dog this call but i want you to be comforted. there's a large majority of us black people -- and i had a black woman, educatedck

n wi two masters drees and nto t you kw'm very proud of the films you put out. even the host when he asked you what does obama have to be mad at, go look at the movie. the truth about a whole bunch of stuff. host: mr. desousahost:? guest: a lot of my recent work -- if i had singled out obama, attacking obama would be one thing. , even moreent movie critical of hillary that i had been up obama. the subtitle of that movie is the secret history of the democratic party. in that movie i show that many of these things blamed on the right and america were perpetrated by the democrats. democratic party is the party of slavery and segretion and jim cr and theu klan in opposition to the civil rights

written -- host: bristow, virginia, democrats line. ali. : good morning. do you bieve that president raised byn american an american family and is culturally american that does not have any cultural background as a kenyan? yet, you went to kenya and interviewed his brother. together --ie that i am african. i know what our people do, they dependable. i am not sure of your background, but i am sure you are familiar what i am talking about. don't you think of that is not

right to go and interview someone in kenya for someone who was born here as an american -- can you answer that for me? guest: certainly. do i think that obama is an american? yes. he had a white mom and a kenyan dad. his dad was never an immigrant, he was a foreign student to ca to america, studied, and went back to kenya. who influenced him more? the mom or the dad. the answer, his dad. father." "dreams of my describesk, obama taking a trip to europe and to kenya to learn more about his mother and father's heritage. history trip to kenya as described in over 100 paget -- his trip to kenya with described

in over 100 pages. he talked about weeping at his 's grave and the moment of a pip anywhere hisr's -- and a moment of you t -- and a moment of epiphany. people say, where are you getting it all from and i am getting it from obama himself. host: gary, miami, florida. caller: thanks. theyou cover in the movie fact that obama says he attended reverendright's church for more than 20 years and he did kw whateverend wright was saying even though reverend married him and his wife, blasted psalm, baptizes children, and the fact that

reverend wright prior to that had been a black muslim and often accompanied farrakhan to toisaffi?o viff and can you comment on this picture that just surfaced of obama? the matteressence of is that obama moved in very radical circles in chicago. he was close to the former domestic terrorist, he was in church, height's knew what those men represented and what they believed, but there is a powerful desire not just by obama, but by the media to camouflage his background. to present him as a very mainstream guy. all of this was swept under the rug.

a lot about obama to this day is not known. he haser released his college transcripts. very odd that there are aspects of his life that remain for people like me who have studied him, remain sort of like you would say a blackhole. because of the extraordinary degree of media protection of obama. i would sit down with reporters who i had known and they would you got shafted, i am sorrys is hpening to you. thei would say, you're on left, it would be important if you wrote something in the new york times, and they would say, no, i could not do that. they were all protecting obama. it was so imperative to them that the first black president succeed that it did not matter what he did or what he believed. and this isre call from oklahoma, independent line.

>> yes, good morning. good morning. i would really love to know your origin of your country that you come from for i am a proud african-american and i never de ny my heritage. i have never seen her movies, but sometimes you sound very arrogant, sir. what makes you so arrogant? i can i do not know ifthere. answer that, i am not arrogant. i am sometimes combative because i am in a combative situation and i tried to give as much as i get. i am very proud to say i was born in india. middle class parents and i went to school in bombay.

came as a first-generation immigrant at the age of 17. america has been the land of opportunity for me but i have also seen the american nightmare and imagine hearing the migrt hearing the united states of america versus dinesh imagine having them go through your tax records, your everything, so i've seen the upside and downside of america. having grown up in one culture and familiar with another, i think there are a lot of wonderful and unique things about america. what makes my work controversial is that i am old enough to say so. host:

democratic congressman from rhode island talks about democratic messaging heading into t8 midterm elections. be sure to watch c-span's live atton journal" 7:00 a.m. wednesday morning. join the discussion. >> president trump held the bill signing ceremony at the white house for the childhood cancer survivorship, treatment, access and research active 2018. participants included childhood cancer patients, their families, members of congress, and health and human services members. >> hello, everybody. hello folks. see how nice they are? [laughter] the nicest people in the whole world.