trump administration's zero tolerance policy for migrants. "washington journal" continues. host: dr. paul spiegel joining us from the john hopkins. he served as the director for the center for humanitarian health. good morning. guest: good morning. the centerus about and your work on this idea of humanitarian health. guest: sure. the center for humanitarian health has three objectives. itin future humanitarians, is research. go toe a long way to improve how we actually respond to humanitarian emergencies. and finally, in power meant, ment inents, -- empowere students, governments. host: apply that to what we see

at theildren being held southern border, what is the long-term and short-term effect of that happening? guest: there are short-term, medium-term, and long-term effects. there is a lot of data looking at trauma against children. started in 1995 with the centers of disease control. what happens is when you have this stress that we cvs children are under when they are separated from their parents, a actually can -- that we see these children are under when they are separated from their parents, it can have behavioral and mental health effects, but it may have medical effects like longer-term issues when they become adults. diabetes, cardiac disease, and it may result in early loss of

life. host: d.c. that being applied to the current situation with the children on the southern border -- do you see that being applied to the current situation with the children on the southern border? guest: absolutely. it is likely they already have trauma. by forcibly separating children, it is adding to the trauma and tore is this response adverse child hood experiences, they are exposed to the worst of the situation that we see immediately. tot: what could the u.s. do alleviate that? guest: most importantly, do not separate children from parents except one that is in the best interest of the child. that is primarily when children are undergoing abuse from their

parents or caregivers. there are other aspects where alleviation can occur, but frankly, the most important thing is to not do this. this is a choice being made and we wrote a letter across the board to everyone saying, this is wrong. seriousong-term consequences and it should not occur. what other steps can be made in the short term? guest: at a minimum, to try to ensure the children know where their parents are, that they have contact with their parents, not visited the border to see what is happening but we need to make sure there are a lot of social workers there to be able to give care and making an environment where the children feel secure. the most important thing is to have contact with the parents and their families to provide a

secure environment. host: our guess is with the john hopkins school of public health. this is dr. paul spiegel. separatingk about families at the border. for republicans, (202) 748-8000 democrats, independent (202) 748-8002. are there best practices for other examples of refugee children that can be applied here when it comes to schedule or structure or some things we can learn? guest: we looked into this and my previous work, i smith the last 14 years with united nations high commission -- i spent the last 14 years with united nations high commission for refugees.

from parentsildren at the border -- i spent time on whereaches of greece the refugees were arriving, and even in that situation, governments do not separate children. as a humanitarian, it is the opposite. when we are dealing with children fleeing the persecution, the goal is to make sure that minor is reunited with their family. opposite, wey the should always try to reunite minors with their family. there is little to learn from other situations because it is frankly not done. the united nations high commissioner for human rights has come out to say there is a convention on the rights of a child. article nine talks about avoiding separation. host: we will start off with burke, virginia. democrat line, hello. caller: good morning. my name is elise.

thank you for taking my call. i really appreciate your position, but i want to present for you -- this is an isolated situation that has been turned into hysteria. we have how many people in this country who are incarcerated? probably about 2 million. how many of them are parents? how many have given birth in prisons and been separated from their infants? you are making an exception. case of extreme harmfulness to these children's psyche. do you know how many people in this country separated from their parents because of incarceration? as being refugees and being in refugee camps, you do not know who these people are. you do not know if the children are actually their children and you are making assumptions.

these children are turned over to individuals who claim to have close ties to these children. they are paid to take care of them. i think this is really a kabuki dance put on by the politicians. host: what about the assessments she makes? guest: there are strict rules in terms of when families seek asylum. there needs to be a quicker adjudication to decide if they are fleeing and they have a credible fear. weo not think that hopkins are saying that we should let everybody across the border. we should clearly be decidingw is at risk,ng who make a clear decision, those that are decided that are not following the rules, they should go back, and those that are granted asylum should be in the

u.s., but the key is to keep the children and the parents together. host: what about the argument of makes of the parallels imprisonment in the united states who is separated because of crossing the border? guest: this will come up a fair bit today. the issue is crossing a border is the misdemeanor, it is not a felony. with misdemeanors generally, people are not detained in this way. there are been lots of how we are going to be able to deal with it. it is not an easy fix in terms systemsms, but can be put in place to adjudicate quickly. while those systems are in place, we need to ensure children are not separated unless it is in our best interest. host: on republican line for

michigan, this is brian. caller: good morning. i know you have had them on before, but i do not know why for genia is so upset. if democrats tell us, these are all doctors and lawyers coming over here, these are the best of the best, just because obama turned it into a misdemeanor ,hen they get there false cards they are back in the felony. if they do not have enough respect in this country to come , they have norts intentions of following any of the laws. why all ofderstand the mexican doctors and lawyers are doing that. that is all who is coming over, remember? host: i think he is talking about daca. guest: there are unaccompanied

minors that are coming over. we are not dealing with that in this case, we are dealing with families that are coming over with their children, so it is a different situation. there is the issue of crossing beforeder and -- or crossing the border, asking for asylum at the frontier. points,lem is that this and this is why i think we will come back to the systems issue, but clearly there are not enough border points that people can come to. they are not sufficiently human resourced, and it is dangerous for people to wait and wait at this border. if they do move over and declare asylum -- we have to differentiate between unaccompanied minors, dreamers, and the specific instance. host: market washington, d.c., democrats line. caller: thank you. i was fortunate enough to obtain my education in america and i

started off in humanities and now i am working on a degree in economics. i think there is a humanities perspective. we are not treating people humanely. there is the economic perspective, and we can look at it normatively or positively. positively, we can follow our rule of law, but from a normative perspective, we are not doing what is ethical. thank you for having on eight -- a doctor. it is a horrible and barbaric thing to do, that is my comment. host: getting back to the health aspect -- is clearly a law of controversy about how people, across the border. say, andt heard anyone will, thatllers separating the children can have any positive effect to the children and we cannot forget the parents as well. there are ways to put systems in

place to adjudicate those who are seeking asylum, make a decision, and they move back or not quickly without separating the children. back ando keep going back to think about what will be the effects for this child. whether the child ends up with his family, the decision is they have not been accepted for asylum, or whether they are excepted and they are in the united states, this child is going through trauma that made a lot of serious consequences. from a human point of view, we protectbe able to children. we can do that while ensuring the rules in terms of immigration are followed. your background,

could the united nations play a role and to what level? guest: i was just reading this morning the united nations high commissioner for refugees did in 2017, we have the highest level of refugees displaced worldwide. it is important to note that 85% of those people are actually in lower income countries not in the west. the west itself is receiving a very small amount of the numbers of refugees. commission for refugees has clearly said that what is happening now is not acceptable, and they have a lot of experience across the world dealing with borders and dealing with adjudicating for asylum. they have offered assistance. , this ise issues also a policy that was implemented without sufficient preparation

and we are seeing that. ,e see all of the communities whether it be the faith leaders in the u.s., the both sides of the aisle, but the american academy of pediatrics -- the president has visited these areas and seen that children are crying, that rules that apparently the social workers the childrenuch or comfort them because there are concerns about abuse. there is a lot that needs to be done, and we would prefer this to not occur. if it does occur, there needs to be a tremendous amount of prevention that needs to occur. host: do you know what level of care and for a child in a refugee situation, how many times today play and do they get the chance to interact with

people? guest: i do not. i've been trying to follow up with people who have visited. there are not systems in place to know. people who are visiting are getting a limited chance to see what is happening and it does not appear -- when we have in different situations, there are clear rules of how we deal, how people per children, these are more for on accompanied minors because again, we never separate children from their parents, but there are a lot of requirements in place to ensure the children are being supported as much as possible, and that is not appear to be the case. this policy was implemented without sufficient preparation. host: arizona, patty, go ahead. caller: thank you. this did not happen organically. this caravan at the border, i remember when it started, they were saying there is more women

or children. some of the children do not even belong to anybody there. they are props. let's storm the border and let's bring women and children and let's see what they are going to do. first of all, when you flee your you shouldegally, not expect anything but to be turned away. are int that these kids summer camp right now, they put the cameras in there, they only did it once on msnbc, because it looked too happy. ol,re was video games, po food, because what can we do. what else are you going to do when you storm the country and not come here illegally. host: thanks. guest: sure, patty. there is a lot of

misinformation out there. the people coming over are not necessarily from the caravan. leeing ande insecure environment. people -- andfew i've dealt with refugees throughout the world -- there are very few people that would want to leave their country, their families, their security, their livelihoods unless they have a reason to do so. these are not people that are just a fleeing for no reason, they are fleeing for their safety and security. if there are issues of children and trafficking, that is done at the border where you will have an adjudication process to see is this this person's child or not. cases where one cannot confirm if it is their parents or their guardian, then it is legitimate to take the child away from that person until that can be verified.

but for the most part, these are people who are fleeing , and weion, gangs need to be able to clearly demonstrate when they are at the border, if they immediately crossed the border, clearly adjudicate if they are seeking seekingnd if they are security. host: john in missouri valley, iowa. caller: my question is, what is the age of these kids range from? . heard 17 down to 2 where douestion is, these kids and families go? they have no food, no clothing, insurance, no medical -- what do they do? there is going to be out in the wilderness?

guest: thank you for the question. data that is currently available up until may 31 is dren there were 1995 chil that have been separated from their parents. those, 100 were less than four years of age and some of them were infants. that is vary, someone that is less than 18. in terms of what happens, it is a process. if there are a lot -- if there are enough human resources, homeland security, or judges, it is quickly decided if meeting the requirements of a credible fear of becoming a refugee. many do not end and they are moved back with their family without being separated, we

hope. if they are, then there is a process and it depends where they are located and they work after a short time, they moves to hhs and they are taking care of correa. of for are taking care period of time. misinformationof in terms of refugees either being resettled from abroad or crossing over. the longer-term effects have shown that they are positive providers to the u.s. economy. host: what is the average length of time a child is separated from the parents? guest: that is one of the problem with the systems. in theory, if there were enough immigration judges at the border, it would be with in a few days they should be apple to adjudicate whether they are --

they should be able to adjudicate at the border of whether they are seeking asylum. i've heard a month. it can be longer because they are being prosecuted and detaine d, that is being dealt with first and then the immigration component. in may even be longer which is why we need to look at the system to make it as just but as quick as possible for everyone. host: democrat line from indianapolis, ishmael. caller: good morning, gentlemen. pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20, the chair will postpone further proceedings today on motions to suspend the rules on which a recorded vote or the yeas and nays are ordered. or votes objected to under clause 66 rule 20. the house will resume proceedings on postponed questions at a later time. for what purpose does the gentleman from oregon seek recognition. mr. walden: thank you, mr. speaker. i move the house suspend the rules and pass the bill h.r. 3192, as amended.