on c-span, c-span.org, or listen on the c-span radio app. mexico's presidential ahead of the election, threey 1. presidential debates were held in the country. second debate was from may 20 in tijuana in front of a live studio audience. this 40-minute portion included responses from the four leading candidates on mexico's relationship with the u.s. on immigration and trade policy. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> good evening. welcome to the second presidential debate in the city of tijuana. it is a pleasure. the main objective of this debate has to do with mexico's role in the world. we will take a look at the importance of mexico's role in

though world. all these people are from tijuana and they will ask a question directly to the presidential candidates. we are very concerned about the millions of accidents that live in other countries. we will debate investment, free trade, also transnational crime, the rights of immigrants. the national electoral institute would like to thank the autonomous university of baja california as well as the vice director's office here in the tijuana campus so that we could hold this debate. this debate is broadcast through the entire country and drought the world to the internet and social media as well as public and private television networks and radio networks. thank you, we would like to welcome candidate lopez obrador, from the coalition working

together. candidate anaya for the coalition of mexico, and an independent candidate, known as el bronco. let's begin with our discussion. the studio audience is made up of 42 people elected from a representative sample from the population of tijuana. they were selected randomly by a private company. these citizens have not decided who they are going to vote for. they do have the intention to go to the polls. each of these people will ask two questions related to issues involving the debate. the moderators will select six questions that will be asked directly. the first segment, candidates will respond to the same

question asked by one of the citizens following the list selected randomly. the candidates will have one minute to respond and up to two minutes to follow up. additionally, they will have a right to two rebuttals of 30 seconds each. those are the rules of this historic debate. you have the honor to answer the first question. >> good afternoon, candidates. i have a question. based on the uncertainties we are facing right now as a result of the protectionist attitude and the renewal of the free trade agreement, what are specific actions you will adopt to redirect mexican exports to other countries outside the united states?

what about the renegotiation? how will you deal with the protectionist attitudes and measures? >> thank you, and thank you for the question. we need to wean ourselves from the gringos. we have to put them in their place as well. we have to talk to the u.s. president the way you need to talk to a president. sometimes, when someone is behaving in an animal way, it is something that upset us. sometimes people who are vitriolic will take their own venom. i think that is this case. so we know that asia, india, korea and south america, maybe we need to establish free trade agreements with those countries. also, we need to foster greater trade between all of us here in

mexico. >> thank you, candidate. good evening. >> well, i maintain that the best foreign policy is shoring up our domestic policy. if we are threatened by the building of walls and crossing our borders to prosecute our fellow citizens, what we need to do is strengthen our economy and provide enough job opportunities in mexico so people don't need to emigrate. we will support the immigrants because these people are going to find a better living standard in the united states. they don't just go because they feel like going. we agree with the free trade

agreement. we need to maximize our relations with the united states relations of friendship, but also mutual respect. thank you. candidate what are specific , measures that will be taken by your government in order to redirect mexican exports elsewhere? >> thank you. i think it is a very key question. on the one hand, we need to reassess and rethink our relationships with the united states. 80% of our exports go to the united states. people say you don't make many mistakes. you make one mistake and you have to deal with the consequences. one historic error was to receive donald trump, who was attacking mexican people. he did not even bother to read

this book. he says you have to provoke the opponent, and if he is weak, we smash him, and if he is strong, we negotiate. so when my opponent is weak, we crush him. if you want to be respected, you have to respect yourself first. a president needs to behave with dignity. i will defend the national interests. , i would like to know, what are the specific actions to redirect mexican exports in order to reduce the economic impacts resulting from our overreliance on the nafta agreement? >> thank you. we have opportunities throughout the world and we are going to take advantage of them. before we talk about trade and investment, we need to talk about mutual respect. president trump four days ago once again insulted us. every time he insults our

immigrants, their lives and their dignity, in my government we will not allow any aggrievement of any kind regarding any issues that are not based on that respect. -- we will not allow any agreement of any kind regarding any issues that are not based on that respect. i will not allow under any circumstances that we be disrespected. never. that is my commitment to you. >> thank you. now let's continue with questions. >> candidate, the difficulty with the free trade agreement negotiations are not understandable without the presidency of president trump. when donald trump announced he was going to be president, 90 seconds before he started attacking mexico, he called the mexicans criminals, drug traffickers, rapists, and he has not stopped since. he has offended millions of

mexican families here and in the united states. you said you will ask president trump for respect. how do you measure that respect? give me one specific parameter that is measurable so we can realize if donald trump is respecting us, and how do we achieve that specifically? >> through moral authority. the president of mexico has not had that moral authority. and at the same time, not the political authority. donald trump has offended mexico, he has offended the government of mexico. he said that the government is corrupt. well, funny thing. i have to accept that. it hurts to have to admit that, that the government of mexico is corrupt.

but i don't allow foreign governments to say that. we are free. i understand that. but give me a parameter that is measurable. something quantifiable. >> honesty. >> you are talking about the relations between the united states and mexico. >> mexico -- the government of mexico must be honest. we cannot simply shine a light on to the street and inside a house where we are dark. the government of mexico -- they are conducting negotiations that mexico wanted. >> i understand, but my question is, you talked about exporting, -- importing for example, corn.

, let us say trump is going to impose measures against the avocado exports. that could be a trade war. that would really hurt our economy. what are you going to do? >> let's understand ourselves. we are going to negotiate with trump with authority, sovereignty, which is something previous governments in mexico have not done because they do not have the moral authority, because they are corrupt governments. so we are going to change the relationship, and trump is going to have to learn to respect us, i can assure you that. >> thank you. candidate, your first rebuttal. >> i want to respond, what can we do to diversify our trade? i have good news. just a week ago, a major free trade agreement was negotiated

so that we can export goods to the third largest trade area in the world -- japan, korea, we -- korea. we know that his party either does not know what must be done or they do not want to progress. well, in this debate, if the intention is to attack me, that is understandable. we are ahead by 25 points in the polls. they are hoping to gain some lost ground here to overcome their disadvantage. it's not going to work. i'm not going to fall for any provocation. >> a very specific question was asked lopez obrador, and as usual, he has not answered. mexico needs the united states. but the u.s. also needs mexico.

why do we ask for visa for people coming from countries that are antagonistic to the united states, iraq, iran, so that we can maintain enforcement? how many terrorists have come to the united states from mexico? zero. let's put all of our current on the table firmly. >> candidate calderon, your first rebuttal. how do we replace the corn exports you were talking about? >> well, we need to step up to the plate and not allow any offensive behavior, either trade or in other areas. >> an advantage in the polls is not enough. despite those poll results --

>> what if on july 1 you are elected president of mexico and declared through the hamburger strategy you will negotiate with donald trump in the relations between mexico and the united states. assume that doesn't work, and you wake up and you get this horrible twitter announcing that the trade agreement is now going to be nullified between mexico and the united states and canada. what are you going to do? >> obviously, the free trade agreement is not enough in itself. we have the capacity to negotiate and trade with any other part of the world. we have to get rid of this idea we are just a mouse that can't do anything. i don't have a plan b.

i have two plans or even three plans a. >> what is your other plan a? >> we need to be very clear in our negotiations with president trump so he does not call us animals. we are going to be speaking directly at him so he understands fully but nobody has responded. he sent his son-in-law. and i'm going to negotiate, i'm going to speak frankly with him. and i think in the free-trade agreements, we can talk not just about trade. we also needs talk about the integrity of people and of the free trade agreements of the past. we negotiated everything in trade. yet we didn't include banks or oil. you would include those. you would include those in a renegotiation of the nafta agreement. >> yes, but we need established conditions. recover ---- -- he what if we recovered --

we gave that away. >> you are talking about expropriation for banks? >> we are going to ensure the u.s. understands we have our own cards. i have a team working on this. there is an alternative. not just with the nafta free-trade agreement. we have to look at other countries, other markets that will allow mexico -- >> excuse me, let's get back to the banking sector. are you talking about expropriating a bank? what are you negotiating exactly? >> what was not negotiated in the previous nafta agreement. >> are you telling me you would be willing to expropriate a bank? >> yes, if the americans continue with this firm-handed approach, we need to not give everything away. we need to wean ourselves from the americans. we need to talk on equal footing. >> would you be willing to expropriate something else? we hardly have any time left. tell me yes or no. >> let's leave it there and i will answer later.

>> thank you, candidate calderon. let's continue with another candidate. this situation we find ourselves in would not be happening if donald trump had not been elected president. you were foreign minister when president trump came on the political scene. several voices criticized you for dealing with donald trump threats with such timidity. and in the scenario in washington, there was a candidate who was highly anti-mexican, for the first time in the history of the united states, an openly anti-mexican candidate. so i ask you, were you mistaken as a foreign minister? should you has been more firm with trump? >> i never thought he would win. the fact is very few believed. even that day on election day i did not think he was going to be elected. it was a surprise, the election.

and the fact is that we face scenario that is very encompassing and very complex. we were clear in denouncing his racism, his ignorance. and like he said -- >> how would you measure these results? when trump ran for president, he said that the remittances would end, that we would have a cross-border tax, that there would be raids conducted, trade agreements would be canceled. today, with all of the challenges, many of those threats that were on the horizon are now coming to the forefront. >> the government of mexico tried to invite mr. trump. the "economist" magazine said this was unforgivable and inexplicable. seven out of every 10 mexicans said they were offended by his visits to mexico.

you declared that president trump's visit had served mexico, that trump no longer saw mexico as a threat as an ally. a year later, it is not the case. i do not see it. how do you respond? >> i see it many ways. right now people are living in fear. >> let me answer. we know there is a government animals and we say that is -- we know there is a government here that calls immigrants animals and we say that is unacceptable. what was the threat we face last year? last year it was thought with a new administration, the u.s. withdraw from the free trade agreement. he said he was going to leave the paris climate agreement. >> that is not what i'm asking. the question is, yes or no? was president nieto wrong in inviting president trump? >> he has been judged by the results that if you look at the

result, they withdrew from tpp, the nuclear agreement, withdrawn. the u.n. immigration agreement, they have withdrawn from. the paris agreement they have withdrawn from. now we are making a huge effort and we want everyone to know, we want immigrants to know as well, we are not going to rest until we have assured your safety. and we will work with civil society, with litigation, so we do not face that. >> candidate anaya, president of france macron tried to make friends with donald trump. he took him around paris. he showed him the eiffel tower. he went to the white house and they planted a tree together. macron wanted to convince the president come just like candidate me did to respect the did to respect the , -- meade, to respect the paris climate agreement and he was

unsuccessful. you said you have to confront trump. in an interview, you said you would say, excuse me, just leave. with all due respect, that confrontation policy has not been attempted by kim jong-un. with a free trade agreement on the table, how far do you think you would go with that confrontation approach? >> thank you, and i said it very clearly. in politics, you do not make many mistakes. you make one big mistake and you are dealing with consequences. it was one mistake that was made here. the humiliation of the mexican people, when this gentleman was insulting and attacking mexicans for over a year, calling us rapists and murderers, they gave him the red carpet treatment. so even in the books he has published, he likes to provoke. he says so. he likes to provoke the adversary to see how they react. the question is, are you going to confront donald trump with total firmness and dignity to

get that mutual respect -- >> but how? how? >> in terms of security. they need us. they need us a lot. we have a 3000-kilometer border. dating back to the 1990's, the terrorist attacks, how many terrorists have entered the u.s. through mexico? zero. which country does texas export the most? mexico by far. texas exports more goods to mexico than all the u.s. exports to japan. so we want that relationship of mutual respect. >> if you do not respect yourself, you are not going to get respect from others. foreign former minister suggests we need to draw a redline and even suspend cooperation issues. are you going to suspend some cooperation issues? could you or any of the

candidates? we know you're going to be in office for six years. president trump may be here for eight years. your father, who was a brilliant intellectual, said the bullies can never be placated. you have to confront them because they only respect those people who respect themselves. of course we have to put all our , cards on the table. everything has to do with relationship. and when he sees firmness and dignity shown by mexicans, we will gain that respect. i think that is the way to go. a president that behaves with dignity and fully defends our national interests. we put everything on the table, all our cards. it's going to be a one-on-one negotiation. and in those negotiations you get fruitful, positive results when you behave with firm courage and determination. >> i think courage is something

you see one to one when mexico faces an adversary that threatens. if you don't face them, you don't tell them where the boundaries are, if you don't have that, what kind of relationship can we expect? what are we going to give up? and if after a certain time that , red line, those boundaries are respected, then diplomacy will work. it is not hiding behind the border and throwing out insults. >> candidate calderon, do you have any rebuttal? >> do i have time? >> yes. this is your rebuttal time. >> i believe you need to strengthen our national economy first. we need to take it out of its neglect.

and strengthen our export markets, agricultural commodities, not just depend on oil exports. if we do this, we will be stronger and we will not be at the mercy of the threat of any foreign government. >> candidate anaya. this segment talks about investments as well. in order for their to be jobs, you have to foster greater investment. when you were mayor of mexico city -- let me hang on first. the investments dropped sharply. we have the reports here. investments dropped precipitously when you were the head of the government of mexico city. so when you don't have investments, you don't have jobs. how do you explain this? >> i think really the whole thing gets back to all three candidates. they are all deceiving the mexican people.

one with slogans of peace and love. the other in all three one, positions, he could not answer. and then he talks about -- well he talks about trump, but his , three children are in the united states. and all three of them are not going to be able to talk about trump because they all have the same background. >> let's move on to the second segment of our discussions. a very important question you wanted to raise. >> yes. the indignities the immigrants are suffering, the way they are treated is terrible. we saw the massacre, and recently the way immigrants have been treated, and even

immigrants that were kidnapped by criminal groups. so my question is, how do you help those immigrants that cross into mexico, whether they are central americans, haitians, africans, so that we can have that moral authority and ask for our mexican immigrants to be treated with dignity in the united states? >> let me recap some information getting back to the humanitarian crisis. according to amnesty international, mexico exports more refugees to central america than the united states. two thirds of the central americans that go through mexico have been victims of some type of violence. one third of women have been

sexually attacked and raped in our country, one third going through our country. >> i think this is very important to mention -- we have to treat them well. we have been losing that humanity in our governments, because with these three political parties, they have proposed all of these problems that mexico is facing. if we stop just looking northward, we also need to look southward. if we turn chapas into another california, the potential is huge, and we can contain immigration, but in a humane manner. all those that go across mexico should be able to do it with dignity so that the authorities are not persecuting people. the authorities should be able to understand and listen and allow people to go into the united states. they go to the united states because they have jobs that pay

better, better living conditions. >> thank you, candidate. >> i think you are right. we are not going to have any moral authority if we ask the united states to treat our immigrants well, how can we do that if we are not treating the central americans coming to our country with dignity? we need to set an example. we need to cooperate with central american countries and show them that one peso invested in cooperation is worth more than a peso invested in a ridiculous wall such as the one donald trump wants to build. i think we have to do many things in order to confront the problem. immigrants that come in include those that are unaccompanied unaccompanied children, , adolescents, that are facing the abuses that were mentioned. we first need to invest in

health care, we need to address the needs of immigrants. every time we see a child in adolescence in the immigration process, they are also many they also face many times severe health problems. we need to have immigration hand in hand with health care. let me just mention, the challenge is so great, the government needs to work as a team. the churches are part of that team. they are a major partner and can help us a lot in dealing with these places. >> candidate lopez obrador. >> i think it is up to us to continue with negotiating the free trade agreement. and we should include not only trade issues, we also need to increase salaries. but we should propose to the united states government that we

sign an agreement similar to the alliance for progress that would include canada, the united states, mexico, and central american countries, so we can launch projects in central america and mexico aimed at development, aimed at creating more jobs, improve living conditions. that is how we will achieve peace. comprehensive proposal that gets to the root causes. it is not just trade that should concern us, but improving living standards of our immigrants. it is what motivates people to leave their country and move elsewhere. >> now, it is interesting, candidate. president trump only praises mexico in one thing. we know that for him and general john kelly, the southern border should be the first line of defense in america. he likes that.

in fact the idea of of , militarizing that. following that, should the southern border be a line of defense, or a point of entrance for the refugees? >> well, first of all, those who are fleeing war or fleeing natural disasters need to be received with open arms. let me just recognize the people of tijuana, because the haitians coming here from the poorest country in latin america, from a natural disaster, have been received in a way that donald trump does not want to receive the mexicans. we have looked at how they have been integrated into society, how they are creating new families, working with dignity, with loyalty to the country that opened the doors. that is the kind of mexico i want, a mexico that is generous, that opens its arms to brothers and sisters who are suffering

from elsewhere. and once we do that, we will have that moral authority to demand the united states do the same thing. >> well, haitians are one thing, central americans are different because of the numbers. guatemala, honduras, for different reasons have been countries of origin for immigrants. many of them are leaving from violence. they don't want to just across mexico, they want to take advantage of their links. if we change the southern border into another magnet for development, then that way we can empower, strengthen relations we have for many years that predates these crises and provide central americans and mexicans more dignity so that we

can coexist peacefully that will also benefit mutual prosperity. >> well, i know that we will establish in tijuana -- an announcement i want to make -- a national immigration institute. we know that our neighbors to the north would like us to continue to do their dirty work and detain these central american immigrants on our border who are looking for better living standards to the north of us people who , are fleeing because of extreme poverty and also violence. the next democratically elected leader of mexico has decided that that institution, the national immigration institute

, will be located here in tijuana. >> candidate called around? calderon?te >> the transit and movement we were talking about earlier can be contained, but without any act of violence. you have to respect the people's dignity. today we have no longer borders. people can do many things. we need to work on this relationship, not only with governments but with individuals. the southeastern part of the country -- for example, we see people going to tijuana, sonora, we can contain in the southeastern part of the country all those people by giving them jobs, improving infrastructure, improving opportunities. but because of the political parties, and all these political parties here have governed these states -- they have not done their job. we need to create coalitions in

order to improve living standards. providing asylum is very complicated in mexico. would you consider changing the system in order to ensure mexico receives more central american immigrants? >> of course. and we have an elementary law -- let's treat fellow citizens the way we want to be treated. we want the united states to treat our immigrants with dignity. and we demand -- for example, when haitians are asking asylum and being refused. but mexican legislation is very rigid in this area. we need cooperation with central america, with these three countries that have sent these people, we also need to have the right legislation that we hope that our neighbors

also have when we are talking about refugees and immigrants. >> would you like to add to that? >> well, if we improve our legislation and our procedures, we can provide better services. one other thing here. a lot of that immigration is associated also with -- it is linked to human trafficking, money laundering, and other criminal enterprises. that is why we have to strike the right balance between immigrants who come here with a willingness, who are not committing any crimes, and those who are encouraging criminal activities, and many of them are victims. we have to look at these areas separately. >> candidate lopez obrador? >> i reiterate that we need to have cooperation for development.

we need to have this broad encompassing agreement with the united states -- and let me get back to the creation of another alliance for progress -- i thought that was an excellent method we need to reach all the , governments in north america and central america to try to attack the root causes. >> thank you. candidate calderon, would you like to now conclude? you have 30 seconds. >> yes, i think mexico must consider the mexican immigrants, they send back to mexico 585 billion pesos a year. so we need to devote over a billion pesos to this program. we need to change that, however. we need to use a lot of what we

have been wasting in programs that just provide for welfare and lead to greater poverty. >> anything else? >> just to add one thing. we did not talk about a very relevant issue which has to do with money laundering that has an impact on security. we still have not seen transparency by other candidates. >> saturday, michelle obama talks about her upcoming memoir, reflecting on her time at the white house. obama: people think i am a not exist,ke i do like people like me do not exist, and i know there are so many people in this country, in this world who feel they do not exist because their stories are not told where they think their

stories are not worthy of being told. in this country we have gotten to the point where we think there is only a handful of legitimate stories that make you a true american. and so if you do not fall into that narrow sort of line, it is like you do not belong. but we all belong, and i think my book is just -- it is the ordinariness of a fair extraordinary story. >> watt saturday night at 7:45 saturday nighth at 7:45 eastern. >> the supreme court wrapped up this week. live in about an hour and a half, a review of the court's term. secretary ofyou

state pompeo testifying earlier wednesday. this happened wednesday before the white house announced that trump would meet with putin on july 16 in helsinki, finland.