affiliates as we explore america. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in >> c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created by a public service by america's cable television companies and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> this week, colorado college professor thomas cronin discusses his book imagining a great republic them political novels and the idea of america.

host: your new book imagining a great republic, all the king's men is the best political novel ever. tom: it is the american political novel. he -- first it is beautifully written. he is a great craftsman who wrote about politics. you could add in a few people like steinbeck and others. it was a that she was a gifted writer. he captures the paradox of politics and power. politics is inevitable and necessary and you have to have power to make things happen and to bring about change. he also talks about how power intoxicatingand for somebody who wields it and powers shapes the power wielder in the case of governor willie

stark, loosely based on huey long. it captures that story. most important way, that book is important because it is about responsibility. governorbook is about isrks aid, jack arden who from the oligarchy, he is from the privileged class, highly educated, a former reporter and he gets sucked and and he becomes the back man and the dirt collector and does horrible thats and rationalizes doing someed person good things is ok to work with. late in the novel does he come to understand the moral awakening about good and bad. nobody in american literature has captured that as well. which is why it won a pulitzer

prize in why he is revered as the best american novelist we have produced. host: how many books did you read to write this book? select downels to to 40 or 50 novels that i treated. tough decisions, scarlet letter, james damore cooper, faulkner, and in many cases, which steinbeck book do you use? in the middle of my writing this book, he came out with a second book and decided to give an almost equal treatment because i think the second book talks more about politics than the first book even though it is not a literary success. a lot of great books i had to say no to. to go back to the 1960's, you came to this town is a white house fellow. what were you doing at the time

and what impact did the white house fellowship have on your career? tom cole and a good question. i came in 1963 as an intern for a republican senator from massachusetts. was a two-term governor, to -- three term senator. in 1966 as a white house fellow working in the white house west wing with bill moyers and douglas cater. graduate-- i was a student at stanford, i was studying public opinion polls and voting analysis and city governments and all of a sudden, i was thrown -- thrown into the original lbj school of politics. i learned enormously that program and similar programs like the congressional fellow program and the supreme court

fellowship program valuable in encouraging people to think differently and ask fresher questions about how democracy works. all the great novels i treat in imagining a great republican -- republic is henry adams' book, democracy, and american novel written in the 1880's. it was written anonymously. he was so well known he feared it would -- his protagonist is a woman, madalyn lee and she comes to washington and she comes in lives a crushing the white house, she is wealthy and a widow. she gets to know centers and operations and she asks major questions are in -- questions. a constitutional democracy? she read the congressional record and she would go to hearings and interview everybody. programs fellowship

for people in their 20's are similar. it puts you in a situation of them in action, seeing their flaws and the ambiguities they have to live with. is of the great novels advise and consent. nobody does a better job of dealing with the ambiguities that u.s. senators have to deal with. robert penn warren's novel is the best american political novel, allen drury's novel advice and consent, only two weeks of the nomination hearing. it is the best book on congress, best novel on congress. you can learn more about the u.s. senate from that book and you can from 100 political science and history books. oce: you call it the best political novel in american politics. let's look at robert penn were

in and see what he sounds and looks like intel is more about him. power, hiller,to stolen, any man of power. he feels some need and .raise on some weakness people lose context. they need him. they get what they deserve in the way of government. or they areweakness mice, it brings a man to his role. host: did you ever meet him? tom: i never met him but i admire him. he was a student of vanderbilt, he was a rhodes scholar. the university of california, berkeley and studied

at oxford and was a longtime professor. he taught for 10 years at lsu around the time that huey long was dying. he met huey long only once and he responded, he was terribly impressed and also skeptical about the overbearing this and narcissism that huey long had. he was running for president but he had done a huge amount to make ellis u.s. serious research university. later robert penn warren wins two additional pulitzer prizes for poetry. most people who know his all the kings men episodes do not know that he was a critic and a poet for most of his life. in the field of english, he is known for that. another footnote is he did not really feel all the kings men was about politics. he felt it was about human nature. my it is an my book

book about morals, responsibility. politicalgency in the steer to have people be aware of and conscious of their moral responsibilities. said before we started you you saw a lot of the movies that came from the novels and had to read the novel. explain more about that. tom: my task was to look at political fiction. writing 50 novelist from other novels and was confusing and in 10 cases, there is some superb hollywood films like grapes of wrath and manchurian candidate and gone with the win. i felt my obligation was to the written novel but the fact is many people, more people have

seen the movies that have read the novel. i felt obliged to read the novel twice and interview the novel. but also to see the film if i had not already seen it. interestingme observations, the most famous has in gone with the wind frankly, mysaying, dear, i do not give a dam in the movie. is in the novel the frankly not there. steinbeck's messages and grips -- inth are toned down grapes of wrath are toned down for the movie although he admired the movie. you have nuances. i encourage people to watch the movies and read the novel. host: the clip from all the kings men as you say about huey long who -- who was he? tom: he was governor of and ran for u.s.

senate. he is mostly known because he , selfrural representative designated as a redneck and he would be there representative of the hicks taking on the oligarchy. meeting oil and lumber and cotton industries of that state. he was going to be a change agent. was assassinated. tom: he was assassinated in 1935. and the novel he gets assassinated at the end of the novel. famous actor plays the part. tom: i am sure he won the oscar that year as well is the movie did. it is a great movie. there is a second to be i do not recommend, the second version. let's watch this clip area and >> a full do a thousand times as likely full to me. this time i am going to fool somebody.

i will stay in this race. listen to me and look at god. this is the truth. no one ever helps i hicks -- a hick but a hick himself. i am standing right here right now. even a dog can learn to do that. have you learned to do that much yet? there it is, there it is, you and if they do not, give me a hammer and i will do it myself. populism, an agent of populism at work rallying people to a cause. it was -- the state of louisiana 2% and was ruled by the it was the oligarchy, appearance simple.

it was a time for change and he was feeding off that. psychologists talk about there are some people who are chronic flowers -- followers or chronically in need to follow someone. warren himself mentioned hiller has come along and robert penn warren was agonized in this novel between celebrating the need for policy and political change and worrying about how power can corrupt and how power can in toxic eight those who have power. favored start, the --ernor but not stark is him start-is him. should worry about it in -- burdenisn.

needed to bring about change but power is, can be a burden. the book is a start earning about the third and contradictions of power. post: where have you spent most of your teaching life? tom: mostly at colorado college. i have there since 1979. i was at the brookings institution for two or three years. aso i took 12 years off to be college president. in while alege

wallet, washington. that experience. being a college president at a small college is still being a teacher in a way. your teaching teachers and alumni and students at the same time. my wife and i are -- have strong ties to that town and that college. in colorado springs for most of the past four decades. host: which of your books has sold the best western mark tom: i have the good fortune to be the co-authors of the american leading government textbook. i joined them as a third partner. we had a spinoff on state and local politics. a million copies when

i was involved in them. also the state of the presidency, that was widely used in presidency courses. i cowrote a book that one the best book award for the year 2013. i love writing about elections, i wrote a book on direct democracy. i have done a lot of textbooks. this new book i have is a new venture for me. political science and it is a combination of literature and politics. i am hoping it encourages more americana field of poli lit. some people would be surprised at we have dozens of first-rate storytellers. .ony morris and

beecher stowe. she changed the nation. many of these books change individuals. i have met and people who say i am a public defender. i work in poverty law because i read john steinbeck when i was a high school student. filmmaker who is famous for , canivil war series burned, -- ken burns. he wanted to write and do a documentary. host: what is a novel that changed your life? >> i do not know that that is the case. novelsively all these are altering my thinking. thirdou do a second or reading of grapes of wrath, it is a spiritual book. although it is a tough critique

about the american economic system, wow, does it show you what humanity is all about. and we need to help one another, we need structures that are there for one another. the joad family story of moving to southern california is a tragic story. they are exploited and scammed. about thelair's story jungle, a similar story. many of these novelists are saying i am learning it again and again as i reread he books, we can do better. the american political experiment, the american idea of equal justice under the law and freedom of equality and opportunity, it is powerful. post: let's look at john steinbeck who won the nobel prize. this is back in 1962, "grapes of wrath" is what you are looking at. singing their litanies in

empty churches. nor is it the game for the elect. literature is as old as speech. it grew out of human need for it. host: what was he like, do you know? tom: i never met him, i met his older sister. she hosted me tortilla in monterey, california. steinbeck went to stanford and never graduated. he came from a republican family and republican town of salinas, kansas. while he was a teenager, young adult, there was the crushing of the lettuce workers' union in his town and he was embarrassed by that and he became interested in the plight of migrants. he wrote for 10 years with that having any success but then he

found his voice when he went home to salinas and monterey and san jose. m.ed. california. steinbeck wrote so many awesome books, he was radical in some of his early books. of mice and men and cannery row and east of eden, powerful contributions to american literature. he had a writing ability that i think if you do a quick reading, you do not profit from it as much as going back and rereading it, watching the film in between and going back to it. it is powerful in terms of its spirituality. it was thought by some people to be a contract for socialism. eleanor roosevelt quite rightly

immediately after she read it and washington, d.c., she said it is a profoundly urgent pro-american book. on that note, i would like to quote bono, the u2 irish singer. he had an album in which he has one song called the american soul. in an interview with rolling he said the irish people are wonderful people. france and great britain are great countries. an idea.are not america he says is an idea. that is why we have become obnoxious and boisterous about when you do not succeed. the rest of the world and he was speaking for a lot of people worldwide. the whole world wants the american idea to succeed. it is a special unprecedented

aspirational collection of aspirations. from jefferson and lincoln and the founders. in imagining a great republican -- republic is the american idea and the american aspirations are constantly present, even when an author is upset with america. if it is upton sinclair or sinclair lewis or philip roth or condon,bury or richard they may be critical of paranoia or feelings or harriet beecher stowe, tony marston, tough on the ancestry of slavery. in all of this the notion of redemption that this country stands for something higher. we can do better. and so bono is right. there is an american idea. and it is worth fighting for, it is worth making documentaries and movies about. of major reading

is inan clinical classics doubling and empowering in terms of this country's stance for something. very special and the great people are all these storytellersey are saying our tribe wants to be something special. not just a city on a hill but a and loves when another and is willing to work with one another and understand indispensableis to our bringing about progress for as much people as possible. host: when did you start this? tom: about three or four years ago. i was at -- i am nearing the end of my professional teaching career. i did not have the necessity to meet pierce standards that i

could read and write and assign things. that reading together with students was powerful. phrase,s a wonderful reading alone is a must as bad as thinking alone. i love that phrase. it is true. you need to follow books like -- read books like this with other people to get feedback. i have learned from students who would write a paper on these novels or have's -- sit down and have tea with me and chat about richard wright, the native son which is a brutal, start treatment of racism in chicago. it took two or three years, it was a delight to read these books. for you toard was it get a publisher? tom: i will -- asked some of my regular publishers and they were polite at turning it down.

the publisherat and a couple of others were interested. and this publisher produced it. within six or seven months. they had done a nice job. host: i counted about 41 novels see you list so people can a lot of the different names and put them up there and we will pick a couple as you look at it. harriet beecher stowe, john steinbeck, iran, edward abbey, and felt roth. let's go to the next group. tom: this is not anywhere near his most famous vote that he gave that name to the post-civil war era that we refer to as the gilded age as the post-civil war time.

host: tell us about that and what impact that had. bailey.et chuck he was a rip -- a reporter. he had a distinguished heritage from england. that is a great novel. one of my students pointed out to me, it is a book about military-civil relations and civilian control of the military. both the book and the movie are quite good. is written by two veteran reporters in washington, d.c. in the early part of the john f. kennedy presidency and it gives us in the novel and the film the most livable american president in american literature. so even that alone. military coups occur regularly in latin america, africa, other

nations. it could happen here. authors one of the few theples that crystallizes possibility that a coup could occur and within seven days which is where comes the title, the president and staff were able to unravel and prevent the coup from occurring. this was published 1962. host: there are so much people to know in this book. one of the ones i wanted to ask you was joseph heller hoss "catch-22. tom: the original title was almost catch 18. it is now in the dictionaries. catch 22eople invoking have never read the book.

manchurian candidate is another who is in the american lexicon. that-22 refers to the fact two things are asked of you and it is impossible to do both. joseph heller was a bombardier often island in italy and the and it istobiographic in novel form. he tells of a mindless -- mindless superiors asking him to do things that are implausible or wrong or being done just for theaucratic purposes or emotion of the colonel in charge. abouts a profound story ism, where the bureaucracy becomes overwhelming in terms of its own needs and self interests rather than the

individuals and the soul of people who work in them. had no compunction of serving in world war ii, he felt it was a just war but the book he comes in antiwar book. because of the tales he tells. post: here's a clip from the 1970 movie. crazy to keepe flying after all the close calls he's has -- he has had. >> and then you can ground him? >> and i cannot ground him. there is a catch. a catch-22. anyone who wants to get out of combat is not really crazy so i cannot ground him. >> ok. let me see if i've got this straight. in order to be grounded, i've got to be crazy. and i must be crazy to keep line. but if i ask to be grounded,

that means i am not crazy anymore and i have to keep flying. >> you can. tom cole in the context of that , now had flown 50 missions he is asked to fly 60 and the next week he is asked to fly 70 and after a while he feels as though they are not caring about him, they wanted to submit the record. it is a long, torturous book, it should have been edited down by 100 pages or more. it is worth reading and it is a classic. host: when you read and you say you have read 100 books to write this book, what is the longest use it while you read? tom: i can usually read 200 pages or so and you're dealing with atlas shrugged or gone with the wind, you're talking about recs that are 1500 d's -- 1500 pages in length.

post: do you have a routine during the time you are doing the research? tom: i have a study in my home and i go out there and it is separate from the house and i could read it links and i would make notes. i always market looks that no one would want to buy used books because the -- of the scribblings all over them. i felt my obligation in this venture was to interview the talk and interview the author. when possible i went to the archives like edward abbey's archives in arizona or to the concord historical society in new hampshire. there was an american author named winston churchill and he about theok, progressive movement in new hampshire. lee's hometownr

and spent a day walking around going to the courthouse and went to margaret mitchell's apartment where she wrote gone with the wind. and i had the pleasure of having john nichols in his hometown of taos, new mexico. i tried to do fieldwork and go out and visit the place. you: there is so much mentioned that i want to catch up with. here is iran. put her into perspective after we watch this. absoluten laissez-faire economy. i am for the separation of state and economics just as we have separation of state and church which led to peaceful coexistence among different religions. after religious wars so the same but -- applies to economics. if we separate the government from economics, if you do not

relate -- regulate production you will have peaceful cooperation at harmony and justice among men. host: i want to add a quote from in perspective. novelists are generally viewed --left of center but i'm and iran was not. ayn rand was not. and she was an immigrant she was a screenwriter. a cold, you can -- people who celebrate john galt, her main protagonist. she has had enormous influence on one philosophical element or part of american political culture and it is the one that celebrate individuals amend

freedom and liberty. wasgoes overboard, but she a great storyteller. her books were turned down by a lot of publishers. found had was turned down by 12 publishers who felt it was too radical into long area and she lives, she is still a bestseller -- bestseller and half of president trump's cabinet view themselves as influenced by brand. paul ryan used to give out to everyone who worked on his staff a copy of atlas shrugged and fountainhead. he did not like the fact that she was an atheist so he downplayed that area and her theme that we have to much national planning them a governmental control is a very important one in the american political dialogue and debate. anybody in politics should read her work and come to terms with the -- it individually. no one can work without being

whoired by her prototypes are making things and manufacturers and i do not think resident trump reads but he like the movie the fountainhead which was about a builder. so he related to that. host: did you read both? tom: yes. host: and they are both big. when was she the most visible in our society? tom: in the 1950's and 1960's, i assume. she lived in new york and she a coterie of people she influenced, one of whom was alan greenspan. who viewed himself as the disciple, he was unapologetic and he was chairman of the federal reserve board, economic

adviser to president, and a major economic euro. he turned down some of it that -- but the influence during president ford's time. host: you mentioned edward abbey. appalachiaw up in and served in world war ii. as rent butrtarian on behalf of a different philosophy, to preserve the south west and he became a radical environmentalist. almost an anarchist. he wanted to preserve the southwest which he loved. he spent many summers and work in the -- in moab, utah. he was quickly, his name was

cactus ed area he was not particularly ecumenical. some of his writing is misogynist and racist but he was so dedicated like rand was to individual freedom, he was so dedicated to replace, the southwest and preserving it. andaid the american tourist automobile people have their national park, that is the interstate highways but he did not want tourists, he was a great believer in freedom. here he is. >> one of the major dangers is too much economic development. -- too much oil exploration, mineral exploration , development of commercial

tourism, this is one of the great adventure places left honors. ithink we should try to keep wild and primitive. it is the property not only of the american people but of all the people in the world. host: where did you go to see his material question mark tom cole and his archives are at the university of arizona. he taught creative writing there for a while and lived in tucson off and on. of speeches and tapes and manuscripts in the university of arizona library that are accessible for anyone to visit. the monkeywrench game -- gannon has given the term to literature and monkey wrenching in additionhings up to the mechanical tool. it is an entertaining,

delightful storytelling, but with a point of view. he was against his full and bordercontrol security, he would be supporting trumps wall today. he did not want to pull coming in and very iconoclastic. -- is a book that should be read. young people enjoy reading it. it is a cult particularly in the west for young people to read. nonfictionninth -- a piece of work, desert solitaire which is memoirs of his anger a seasonal employee in the national parks and that region. host: in your book we get a glimpse of what you think. this is one sentence i pulled out. believing the founders of our country were indians, propagated

slavery, and give us the electoral college the greatest geniuses in the world is flawed logic at best. tom cole and that is influenced --/injure./injure ours is an experiment. i differ with people who cheer on american exceptionalism and i would reframe that to say this is an american experiment and experiment can fail as all of us who took science courses in high school know. experiments can fail. we continually need to reinvent thereinvigorate and renew american experiment so that it succeed, like and was talking about. america is an idea. talking about which family you

were born into or which zip code you live in does not predetermined the opportunity to succeed in america. everyone should have a chance to excel or to learn. there is an american dream. in this book is horatio alger. i would never have thought about him but after a while, i said i have to work on that. host: who was he? tom cole and he grew up in boston and went to harvard. he had some problems in the young ministry he was active in and he was kicked out of boston. he went to new york and had a second life writing about teenagers who were fatherless, orphans who found success and his formula was to work hard, to be honest, and to strive but get adopted by a mentor. he was saying internships and mentorships are crucial to success. he wrote 100 readable short

novels that people like ronald reagan and my father and gerald ford and your father probably grew up reading these books in the 1920's and earlier. his heyday was from the civil war and he died in 1900. 50 million copies. he was the harry potter of his generation. most people misconstrue horatio alger to say that anybody can go from rags to rockefeller. that is not what he says. he says if you work hard and study and become mentored, you can become a modest success in america. he knows that not anybody will do this and he rails in his book street belize and wall schemers and usery and he has conscious --al consciousness. he is writing at the height of

the gilded age and is talking about the american idea. i want up going to the new york public library and spending a week in the basement where the special collections are. having to cart out these boxes of novels that were falling apart. they are not read today and they are not very available. horatio alger should be read. host: what was beloved by toni morrison about? "beloved" was about a woman who escaped from a plantation in kentucky over the ohio river and into cincinnati. was initive slave act force, so her plantation owners could come after her and the fugitive slave act allowed local

authorities, ordered local authorities to help to recapture a slave. slaveryso-called at the that she had had and her whole family that she starts telling feeling that would be better than slavery. the book which is -- has won the nobel prize, many of her books deserve to be in that collection but i kicked out "beloved" because it is the best-known. it is a book about what we need to remember and her book is urging african-americans and theyone to remember tragedies and in humanities of slavery. abouthere she is talking why the story that led to "beloved." >> i had read a newspaper article about this woman who

said i'm not doing that. this child is mine. is mine. she is my child. i will say how she lives. crime and on the gesture,d, this is the it was complicated. tom cole and it is shocking to read the early passages in her book that she makes sense of it. she does not condone the mother killing the child she tries to explain it in the context of what slavery is all about. her book is the greatest reputation of the plantation dennis eads that margaret mitchell gave us in gone with the wind. there were a lot of powerful stories but one of the stories is misleading.

that slaves were happy. beethoven's sixth symphony, it was pastoral and toni morrison, it is one of the great books in american literature. host: what were a couple of books that did not make the cut? in: the one novelist i like half then reading lately is david ignatius. does.fan of what he and he serious reporter knows washington inside out and his books are nice sequels to norman mailer. that would be one example. i have done a project in -- on colorado writers and there are some delightful colorado

writers. jim's mission or's -- james michener's novel. around america selling consciousness expansion without giving thought to the realities. peoplese pathetic thought they could buy peace and understanding for three bucks ahead. their loss and failure is ours too. illusion ofdown the a lifestyle he helped create. a generation of eminent cripples , failed seekers, who never understood the essential old mystic fallacy of the acid

culture, the desperate assumption that somebody or some force is tending the light at the end of the tunnel. host: why hunter thompson? tom: i met him and i asked if he would watch monday night football in the mid-1970's. he was a character. the movie was a total flop. although johnny depp had a pretty good performance. hismovie had too much of juvenile pranksters him in las vegas. it was a vegas road trip. my students put me onto hunter thompson's book, they kept urging me and they read it with me. it took me three times to read that book. and my that there is publisher encouraged me to include that book because it is

a cult favorite. there are political themes in that book. he celebrates freedom and individualism. he like rand and ed abbey and jack kerouac who are all proponents of freedom and liberation. one of the themes in american politics is rugged individualism , privacy andn hunter thompson has many themes, the subtitle of that book is a savage trip into the heart of the american soul of the american dream and he tries to, it is a complicated but as it is the first example, of gonzo journalism or fiction where he puts himself in the story. and makes himself central to what is going on. it is disarming, it is not like a steinbeck book.

host: who gave him the name? tom: an editor at the boston globe. in south boston and boston, the last person standing in a drunk beer party was often referred to as a gonzo. for some reason. this editor described thompson as gonzo journalism, gonzo writing and thompson liked it and he appropriated it. there were others who put themselves in their narratives earlier, walt whitman and jack kerouac, talking about them selves and their travel or their poetry. in the recent generation, hunter thompson becomes known as the godfather of gonzo writing. talking started out about your days in the johnson white house and in this book you have a novel by billy lee

brammer. why did you put that in the book question mark some of the way with lbj. tom: it is the a place. using the word in an earlier rendition. because journalists view that as a cult classic. so the generation of people like david broder who is that has readd on, their generation that book and loved it because they knew lbj and had covered him. austina writer for the texas monthly or something like that. he became a speechwriter to lbj. he would have been a

contemporary of ted sorensen and take good one who were writing speeches for john kennedy. he was writing for lbj. they had a falling out and he went back to texas and he wrote about an lbjl book who was -- he made him governor of texas. thatrns out to be a book, actually admires politicians and the craft of reckoning and agreement, negotiating, and so on. he has this lbj as governor of texas. it captures texas politics. politics, it is three novels in one. one of the things he tried to do is to have books that talk about politics elsewhere in the country. i have eight or 10 washington, d.c. novels.

about politics in iowa, the book about texas. eugene burke about a campaign for governorship in california called the ninth wave. i tried to -- and gone with the is historically southern. i tried to have books representative of the country wherever possible. host: here's another one of your quotes about politics. those who are anti-politics or who do not care for politicians are giving up on the grand experiment of the american republic area politics is the life blood of constitutional democracy and it is the price we aspiring to achieve a constitutional democracy. tom: i think i say in the same issage that politics similar. you have democracy, you have a

republic, a constitutional democracy unless you understand that politics and politicians are crucial. they are imperfect, they are all imperfect my we have imperfect institutions, we have an imperfect constitution, but we have to strive to make our institutions work and try to encourage good people to go into politics. virtually every novelist i dealt with is in some way or another is saying do not give up on politics. that is the message that toni morrison and harper lee and --lip roth and johnston back john steinbeck are saying. host: did you ever think of running? tom: yes, i ran for congress in 1982 unsuccessfully. i ran against congressman ken kramer. me that youuaded

have to run and i was a moderate centrist democrat. had i won, it would not have a been -- would not have been a good example of democracy but i learned about myself in my area and i had urge everyone to run for office once in their life. for some office. politics is for sure. learnedis the thing you working around bill moyers and douglas cater and john gardner. what did you learn about the presidency that has never changed? >> if you get to work close at hand with members of congress, you learn about complexity. you have aarely can sweeping change, most change is incremental, most change is

getting part of something done and a compromise which is a dirty word to many people is critically important. you need to get people together with different points of view and try to work something out. in this country we are facing the issue of gun registration and back down checks and regulation. secondeve in a strong amendment that we believe in safe schools. people have to come together and work on these things. host: you have a vote that you use in the book by alan drury advice and consent. people comeng about to washington, they stay 50 years, they may love, mary, settled down, race families and die beside the potomac that they feel and they will tell you that they are just here for a little while.

tom: that is true. this has become a different town in the past 50 years. it was a place where people were temporary. there is a wonderful novel called echo house. in the second half of his life he had become one of america's best novelists. host: this is by thomas cronin, former president of whitman college, professor at colorado college. anchor for joining us. tom: think you. -- thank you. >> for free transcripts are to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org them a q&a programs are

available at c-span podcasts. >> sunday night on q&a, freelance journalist on his washington post magazine article locked and loaded for the lord on the sons of the late reverend sun yung moon and their church in new full and, as of india. x what is going on in pennsylvania is a commingling of a lot of undercurrents in the country, religion, politics, and guns. to a degree we have not seen before. it is still a small church. be maybe 200d people in the congregation total in pennsylvania and 500,000,

200,000 worldwide. on youtube,w them all the sermons are web cast every week eerie at it is that andingling of passion america and what does this say about us as a culture and is this -- is this a precursor of what we might see? when you let the genie out of the bottle of mixing guns and religion, in any society it has usually been problematic. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1970 nine, c-span was created as a public service by america's care television companies. youy, we continued to bring

unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, graham court, and public policy events around the country. -- the supreme court and public-policy enhancer around the country. >> coming up, lloyd blank sign on the economy. then a discussion on the western conservative senate. summit.rvative goldman sachs chair and ceo lloyd blank find sat down for an interview at the economic club of new york. topics included the u.s. and world economies, trade tariffs, crypto currency and the future of wall street. lang find will step down later this year. this event is 50 minutes. ? --