er ajority leaders on global health and diplomacy. it's live at 1030 tim testimony a.m. eastern on c-span. the president donald trump will announce his nominee for the upreme court filling the vacancy left by retiring justice anthony kennedy. the announcement live tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. this week on ♪ announcer: this week on "q&a," freelance journalist tom dunkel.

he discusses his "washington post" story about the reverend sun myung moon and the church in newfoundlans nd, pennsylvania. ♪ brian: i'm going to talk to you about your magazine piece in a second, but i want to read back to you what you say in your biography on your website. "i have written about politics, adventure travel, sports and health medicine, long narratives to essays. i climbed mount kilimanjaro with a world-class mountaineer, hiked the arizona desert with senator john mccain, tagged along with high-tech bounty hunters

chasing skips, and drove bruce willis' dodge charger while mr. willis rode shotgun." why put that in your bio? tom: i am a writer who has never focused on one thing. i have been hopscotching from topic to topic through my career. there are certain advantages to being a specialist in your reporting. there has never been anyone topic area that has grabbed me hard enough and long enough, and for me, part of the joy of reporting is collecting people and experiences. that was a cross-section of some of the experiences i have been fortunate enough to have. brian: when did you do mount kilimanjaro and why? tom: the simple why is because it was for "travel and leisure."

that was 1999 or 2000 and what was intriguing about the piece, you may be familiar with scott fisher, he wound up dying on mount everest. it was in the "into thin air" book which turned into a movie. he had a mountaineering copy, and adventure travel company. rather than take the main tourist route, he was hiking up the back of kilimanjaro, bushwhacking our way up. it was also an opportunity to hike with him. the sadness of that was he was a really good traveling companion. i enjoyed him. really good photographer, affable guy. subsequent to our hike, he actually asked me to go along on the trip on everest. i am not a technical climber, but you can get as high as i think 21,000 feet to the upper base camp, and at the time it did not work out with my schedule. i remember being at home one night and getting a call, 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, from his assistant. as soon as i heard the voice on my answering machine, and picked up the phone, if you get a call at 3:00 in the morning from a

mountaineer's assistant, it is not good. and at that point they were still missing on the mountain. guy.e was a lovely i would have loved to hike with him again. brian: what about crossing the desert with john mccain? when did that happen? tom: that was when he ran for president the first time. i was under contract for a magazine. doing profiles of candidates in the election cycle. i spent about six months on and off with john. i am sure cindy mccain was not crazy about this, but he said we are going to do a family vacation, bouncing around arizona and doing some town meetings and hiking. so we were in canyon de shea doing some hiking. it was john, cindy, and three of the kids. i am sure cindy was not crazy about having a reporter bouncing around in the car for six days but she was quite nice about it.

john is good with reporters. he was fun to spend time with. brian: what about the bounty hunters? tom: that was a "washington post" piece, about two years ago. my editor is a wonderful guy, he wanted to do a piece on bounty hunters, high-tech bounty hunters for a while. they were having trouble finding a person to cooperate, so he finally threw the story to me. i was fortunate enough to find a bondsman in arlington, outside of d.c. he uses bounty hunters to track down guys who don't pay for their bail. we were tracking down a guy who was in long island, as i recall.

the funny thing is, these are guys who skipped out on their bail bondsman and stuck them for $20,000 to $30,000, but the allure of facebook -- a skip is what they call someone who has skipped bond, and they can find a lot of them on facebook, and create an identity of a young, hot chick, and track them down. that's what we did. brian: on may 27, i got my sunday "washington post," and you wrote the cover story about, among other things, this gentleman on the cover. who is this fellow? tom: his proper name is unjin moon, he goes by the american name of sean moon, he is one of the sons of reverend moon from

the unification church. reverend moon died in 2012 and left confusing signals on what to do with the church after his passing. his son sean had been tapped by reverend moon a couple of times in ceremonies as his heir and successor, but very amorphous terminology. when exactly do you succeed him? after his death, after his wife dies? there was a family breakup after that, and eventually sean and his other brother, kukjin, who goes by the name of justin essentially broke away from the family and founded their own church in pennsylvania. parts of the unification church community have been torn between staying with the main church, which is now headed by reverend

moon's wife, or to navigate and travel with the new church. the new church, as you know from reading the piece, is ideologically quite a bit different from the unification church. i am sure we will get into the details of that. brian: for someone who is never heard of reverend moon, here is some video of him preaching some years ago. [video clip] >> america must return to the true founding spirit of the nation. america must return to godism, and absolutely god centered ideology. brian: 1976. who was he?

tom: reverend moon is a fascinating character. if you look at his life story, regardless of what you think about the unification church, his life's journey was incredible. he was born in 1920 as i recall and what is now north korea, it had been annexed by japan. in poverty, manages to work his way through school. i think he got a scholarship to attend college in tokyo and studied electrical engineering. got involved a little bit with the korean independence movement in college. ran into some problem with japanese authorities. gets his degree, goes back to korea, and when he was 15 years old, he had a vision where he was visited by christ and told to complete jesus's mission.

he basically starts his own church, and the pictures of it are a little hovel of church -- of a church made out of cardboard. he got in trouble with the authorities in north korea. there is always some dispute about elements of his autobiography, his version of the biography is that the korean authorities considered him an agitator and he was jailed several times in korea. he finally got sent to a work camp for two years, mining coal. brian: this was the north. tom: it is still the north, but this is world war ii korea, right after -- actually, at that point, north korea was split. he eventually migrates to south korea, there was a lot of traffic from north korea to

south korea. he starts to church, moves to seoul and starts a church. by the mid-to-late 1950's. and it's a conservative message. very family centered, sanctity of marriage. homosexuality, anything outside of traditional marriage was anathema to him. he eventually has 30 churches in seoul and it keeps growing. the controversy with reverend moon and the unification church were some of their aggressive recruiting methods, among other things. but they grow and grow, and in the late 1960's he decides to come to the u.s. his goal was to unite the world

under one religion and he considered himself the second messiah. he comes to the u.s., gets a little more involved politically, his group marriages i think were the thing he was most known for. but the moonies were everywhere in the states. they were at airpots, in the streets. selling trinkets and jewelry, but a tremendous amount of money was coming to the church. made a lot of contacts in korea, the korean military. his vision of the church did not stop at the doors of the church. his notion was that businesses, and they wound up fueling a number of holding companies and businesses, he considered as part and parcel of his church,

the fuel to drive the church. it was in 1978, there was a congressional subcommittee that investigated the moonies. douglas frazier was a minnesota. in the head of the intelligence subcommittee in the house, and they did a thorough investiation and issues what they called the fraser report. in their terminology, you could not regard the unification church as a church, they called it the moon organization, that is how wide the umbrella spread. i tracked down an old private detective, now retired, who had looked into the church back then. he said they were the largest private landholder in the world at one point. the tentacles of their company went into everything from manufacturing soda, to sushi, to

supplying anti-aircraft parts to the south korean army. so moon had built this empire, and eventually after the fraser report was out, they suggested there should be a further investigation into him, which there was not. the irs looked into him, and the outcome is that he was found guilty of tax evasion. about $162,000, if i recall. he wound up serving 13 months in federal prison in connecticut and became somewhat of a cause celebre for perhaps the government being too aggressive in the prosecution of him. while he's in church, ever the businessman, he makes plans to found the "washington times" newspaper after he gets out, which he did. the moon family takes great

pride with that. including sean and justin moon. they regard what he did with the "washington times" as the first powerful alternative conservative voice in american media, predating in their minds, the precursor to breitbart, info infowars, the drudge report, whatever. they felt reverend moon never got full credit for that. but by the late 1990's, there was a tell-all book written by one of his daughters-in-law. brian: how many total children? also talk of a third wife in his early days.

he and his second wife, they had 14 children. one child died in childbirth. 13 lived into adulthood. three of those children died early in adulthood, one son died in a car accident. another son died of heart complications from alcohol and drugs. a third son committed suicide. the moon family was not absolved from tragedy. brian: he died in 2012, 92 years old. at that point -- before we do that, i want people to see what sean looks like. sean and justin, these two sons, are harvard grads. tom: yes. sean has a harvard extension degree, a b.a., and a masters of divinity from harvard. justin has magna cum laude from harvard in economics.

and then an mba from the miami.ity of brian: this is in newfoundland, pennsylvania. what is the church called? tom: it is called sanctuary church. rod of iron ministries is kind of a subtitle. brian: we go back to the picture of sean from earlier, is that the rod in his hand? tom: yes, that is an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle. brian: gold. tom: yes, gold-plated, and it works. ministryhe crux of his and the source of the controversy, it's relatively

new. church, in 2012, they have the split and it takes him a little while to figure out -- he has a fracturing with his family. sean is an interesting guy. after he got out of harvard with his masters degree, he was practicing buddhism for about eight to 10 years. still on good terms with the family, but while the family is involved in the unification church, he is pursuing buddhism. he met with, actually, the dalai lama invited him to spend some time in india. he comes back to the church shortly before reverend moon's death, about two years before. he got involved in the church, and when reverend moon died, there was a big fracturing. that was his time in the wilderness, if you will. he finally decides to start his own ministry, comes to the u.s., and his brother justin already had a business in the u.s. as part of the unification business empire, if you will.

he had a gun manufacturing company. this is justin. it was headquartered in new york state, but he was looking to move to pennsylvania for certain reasons, some gun restrictions were passed by the new york state legislature. he was thinking pennsylvania by that time. sean is thinking of starting his own church at that time, so early 2013, they are moving to pennsylvania. sean is doing his ministry out of a private house at that time. then he did some church services in the best western hotel. by 2014, he opens an actual physical church, but it was not until last fall, which surprised me, that his ministry takes an unusual turn. as he tells it, he was reading the book of revelation in the bible, which is essentially an

almost hallucinogenic or fantasmagoric vision of the future. it was written in 1 a.d. and we are not even certain who wrote it. it was thought it was the apostle john, but biblical scholars are not even sure who wrote it now. it is a vision of the epic clash between good and evil, seven seals, dragons, false prophets, allegory or literal depending on how you want to read it. brian: let's watch some video sean moon at his church up in newfoundland, pennsylvania. clip] >> you say, oh yes, we support gun ownership because it is a

constitutional right in america. they serve a utilitarian purpose if we get attacked. no, you pieces of trash and stupid idiots, it is the center of christianity. the center of jesus's own vision for his kingdom. brian: the crown on his head is made of what? tom: one of the followers of the church made it from rifle shells, the gunpowder removed, and polished up. it is symbolic of his message. he had read the book of revelation just last fall. it makes a number of references to what is called a "rod of iron." sean interprets that literally as not just a rifle, but specifically the ar-15. i've asked him, why not a crowbar or whatever? there is not a good answer to that. in his mind, he glommed onto

that as the biblical mandate to bear arms. one of the tenets of their belief system is that we are all personal sovereigns in god's kingdom and you have a responsibility to protect yourself, protect your family, and god needs you to protect his kingdom, as well. the notion of individual sovereignty is very important to them. part of sovereignty, again, is being able to defend yourself and prepare yourself both for apocalypse and end times, but also just in your daily life. the ar-15 is central to their religion and what makes them controversial. you can think of the unification church, if the nra established a

religion, this is what it would be like. brian: here is a minute of the church blessing ceremony. this is february 28 of this year. [video clip] ♪ ["hallelujah chorus" plays] ♪ brian: i can hear people watching right now, saying to themselves a number of things. one, why is "q&a" doing this,

what difference does it make? just as importantly, why did tom dunkel do this, and why did the "washington post" put this on the front of their sunday magazine? what is the point of this? tom: what we were interested in and what we found intriguing is that what is going on at sanctuary church and up in pennsylvania is a co-mingling of a lot of undercurrents in the

country, of religion, politics, and guns. to a degree we have not seen before. it is still a small church, no question about that. sean has a worldwide following, my guess would be maybe 200 people in the congregation total in pennsylvania, and 500 to 1000 or 2000 worldwide. these days, you can follow a church on youtube. all of the sermons are webcast every week. but it is that co-mingling of passion in america, and what does this say about us as a culture, and is this a precursor of what we might see down the road? when you let the genie out of the bottle of mixing guns and religion in any society, it has usually been problematic, and then throw politics into the mix. will we see other splinter church groups like this? will he be able to control his congregation? will it grow?

also the language coming out of the church is very disturbing in some ways, and i talked to sean and justin about this. i am currently working on a book about the german resistance and world war ii. what resonated with me is that a lot of the language of where you describe others as demons, as parasites, as leeches, as subhumans, a lot of that, intentional or not, and giving the benefit of the doubt it is not intentional, is the language of fascism, which is becoming more common in our country. we were looking at this as a petri dish of those trends coming together. but we also did not want to demonize these people, or cast

them as cartoonish. the objective of the story was to send someone up there, that someone being me, to spend a little time with these people, the congregation, and try to get a sense of why this is appealing to people. but also to get a little bit of a better window on that church and assuming, if you look at the visuals, guns, church, these are crazy people. it is not that simple. brian: i want to show his brother justin. who is older? tom: justin is older, he is 407i justin is 47, i believe. sean is 38. brian: and he is harvard graduate? tom: yes. brian: and he is selling the guns? tom: yes. [video clip] ♪

>> look at what i have got here today. my god, take a look at this. this is a vfr. with an octagonal barrel, magnet porting, and look at that. it even has my initials on it. j.m. brian: where is this store? tom: in a little town about 15 miles from the church, in greeley, pennsylvania. rural pennsylvania. justin decided to move his business there for a couple of reasons, one of which was pennsylvania being more gun friendly than new york. he still has a manufacturing facility in worcester, massachusetts, but the plan is to move it all to pennsylvania eventually. now he has a large showroom there and he also designs guns, so he has a little research facility beneath the showroom.

he became fascinated with guns as a kid. reverend moon was an outdoorsman and he hunted, but guns were not part of the unification church message. justin's story goes that he shot a pistol for the first time at 14 and fell in love with guns. while he was at harvard, he was tinkering around and designing guns on his own. he wanted to build a really small, compact pistol, which he wound up doing. shortly after he left harvard, he started a little business, kahr arms, and eventually designed a very lightweight pistol. it was only 26 ounces, which apparently was considered a breakthrough in firearms

technology. but it was popular enough that a lot of police departments started buying these as second weapons for officers to carry, and the public gobbled them up. i think he is about the 15th largest gun manufacturer in the united states now. a parenthetical thought, when you write an article like this, a lot of material gets left on the cutting room floor. pennsylvania, according to the nra, something like 900,000 nra members are within a 300 mile radius of harrisburg, pennsylvania, the capital of the state. when i was up there for the story, i came upon another gun manufacturer in pennsylvania that actually manufactures a line of rifles for kids. they have two lines, the chipmunk rifle and the cricket

rifle. i went on to the website, it is called keystone sporting goods or something. i went on the website, and there is a letter from a dad to the owners of the company saying -- your guns are terrific, lightweight, accurate. i bought one for my five-year-old and seven-year-old, and i think this is terrific. and as a non-gun owner, i am thinking, what is more discomforting about that? the fact there is a company making a line of rifles for five-year-olds, or that their parents are buying them? but this is part of the backdrop of what is going on up there with sanctuary church. the message of guns, i asked justin and sean over and over -- these are responsible people. the people i met in the

congregation were decent folk. no wide-eyed crazies. why are guns resonating so deeply? they do a high-tech church service, visuals, slides. i remember, there were slides on rates of homicide versus concealed weapon ownership. another one on child fatalities versus handgun availability. and this is in the church as part of his sermon. why has that so bled into the character of the church that this is become their message?

i find that intriguing, i don't have a firm answer for that, but it speaks to a certain dissatisfaction with the world and with our country. it is a very -- again, lovely people, with a very dark message. at times it gets almost dystopian. the country is falling apart, the world is falling apart, you better have a gun to protect yourself. brian: here is a political connection from august the 2016, what you write about. if you look closely, there is eric trump, the son of donald trump. [video clip] [indiscernible]

[indiscernible] brian: it's not a great video, not great audio. but that was eric trump speaking. what was he doing there? tom: i believe it was august 29, 2016, toward the end of august. brian: august 30. tom: it is a campaign stop. justin told me that it was the hand of god. he got a call out of the blue from the trump campaign saying eric wants to come. keep in mind, you are entering the final leg of a campaign, pennsylvania is a swing state, lot of guna has a owners and that would be a

way to court some votes. it is, uh, the subsequence of that, when i was reporting the story, they held a trump thank you dinner. the church was one of the sponsors of it, up in pennsylvania. as you get into the deeper -- again, this is the crossroads of religion and politics. the moons, meaning justin and sean, will tell you god's hand was at work in the presidential campaign, and they consider donald trump a vehicle, a man god is using to bring about what they consider god's kingdom on earth. brian: here is some video from the thank you dinner held back on february 24 of this year. [video clip] [indiscernible]

>> to believe the words of the devil and believing politician promises. a servant of the people, the government through the institution of the people, what if the time becomes more entrenched, more deeply rooted, more powerful. this is a dystopian price paid in hell on to earth. these social so ship ethic leaders and global leaders and sociopathic followers desire to create the future. brian: on the back wall, the name larry pratt, i don't know how to characterize him. he is stronger in an attitude about guns even then the nra. was this a fundraiser for something? how do these -- you know, go back to an old statistic, that supposedly the reverend moon spent over $1 billion for the first 30 years of the "washington times" of his money. you talked about how he made his

money. do these two guys have his money? tom: no. i mean, they are not -- particularly justin is a good businessman, so he has money. in fact he is the head of a foundation that, a foundation in memory of their younger brother philip who committed suicide. they've got it. and that foundation supplies a lot of the money that supports sanctuary church. the actual figures in the piece, my recollection was over 600,001 year and over $400,000 another year. they own the church and there are also contributions from members. there is not a tithing. it is voluntary monetary support from members.

thathe supposition is justin is an important financial pillar of the church. he is very active in the church. but there has been a divorce from the family, businesswise. as i mentioned, justin originally opened his gun business as part of the unification church business empire, and he negotiated a separation from that so that he is totally removed and is now a self standing business. brian: let me give you a quote from your own article. sean called his "whore of babylon." she is still running the unification church? tom: yes. brian: what is that about? tom: it speaks to the degree of family fracture. the "core of babylon" is actually a term that comes out of the book of revelation.

the "whore of babylon" is actually a term that comes out of the book of revelation and connotes a betrayal of god. fissure, and forgive me, the korean names i sometimes mangle. their mother, now head of the unification church, which now calls itself the family federation for world peace and unification. they did a rebranding. when she took over the church, her notion is that she was married to reverend moon for 52 years and they were partners in his ministry and therefore she would be his designated successor. brian: she is 75 now. tom: i believe. she was 20 years younger than he was. she initiated some changes in the church. some of the language is more gender-neutral. they refer to god as parent rather than father. she also, one of the more controversial things, reverend moon left behind a large body of

written theological work. one of which is called eight great textbooks. his wife felt that was not approachable enough, not user-friendly enough, so she edited them down to three textbooks. among some followers, it was considered heretical. it the sons consider heresy for her to have essentially taken the church away from sean, the contention being that reverend moon meant for sean to be his successor. the fracture is so bad, the unification church, like many in asian societies, believe in an active afterlife. -- what they did about

ago, they divorced their mother from their father, and they held a wedding ceremony to reverend moon, now deceased, to one of his earliest followers. mrs. kahn -- k-a-h-n-- is her surname. essentially, they married their father to another woman. sean took it a step further, he gave a sermon on how unhappy the marriage was, that it was a contentious and unhappy marriage. justin has taken it a step further, where he actually has publicly said his mother should be executed. for the crime of heresy. the moon brothers are very direct in their language. i certainly give them credit for

their candor. i sat down with them separately for long sit-down interviews and i said, i understand in the heat of the moment, when you're speaking in public, sometimes you can say things you don't mean, you could be speaking figuratively rather than literally. are there things you want to take back? some of the language can be very cutting and harsh. and specific to his mother, i said you know -- justin, do you stand by that? he said, i am not a politician or running for office. it is on the record and i stand by what i said. some of the moon children i spoke to, their sister who has not spoken publicly about this

before, it took a little bit of negotiating and soul-searching on her part to even speak in public about this for the article. she still harbors a notion that the family will somehow reconcile. she had a lovely quote that we had to cut for space, to get down to deadline time, but she had a quote, love is stronger than memory. she said, i have great faith in my mother's capacity to love her children. she still hopes that somehow the two branches of the family are going to reconcile both theologically and personally. brian: where does mother live? tom: she is primarily in korea now. the moons built a spectacular, what they call a peace palace, about two hours north of seoul, it is modeled on the u.s.

capital, a beautiful alabaster palace. she spends most of her time there. brian: who owns the "washington times." tom: the unification church. brian: what is the circulation today? tom: i don't know. it is still a viable conservative voice. it doesn't have -- i don't even know if they are doing a print edition anymore, i think it is mostly online. brian: it is still in print, we get it along with everything else. tom: the commitment is still there, but when reverend moon was alive, that was his important stepchild. brian: explain this video. this is sean's wife talking. [video clip] >> i know about, when he asked me to do something, it is not a

personal thing that he makes me do it, because he wants me to do it or wants to pressure me to make him look good, to oppress me or whatever, it is not negative reasons. i trust him enough that when he says something, he actually has a very specific reason, and he does that has it is good for the nation and for me. brian: how many children do they have? tom: five. brian: and justin? tom: seven. brian: what was she saying there? tom: i don't know the question, my guess is it had something to do with the role of women in the church. it is very patriarchal. the terminology sometimes can

get conflated and misunderstood. again, the language can be quite strong, and if you read, there are other things justin and sean have said about women that would speak to a subservient role. they speak of women having an obligation, and again, marriage is central to the religion. to be a bachelor or unmarried woman is almost unthinkable to them. speaking in the context of a marriage. brian: and they have mass weddings. tom: they don't do that anymore, they are pretty much a relic of the past. the unification church does not do it anymore, and certainly not the sanctuary church.

but they speak about women having an obligation to honor the husband and respect to the same time, they are very empowering with women, as well. to the point of even martial arts training and such in terms of confidence and self-reliance. the language can sound a little bit harsh in terms of the role of women, but it is not quite -- these are not shy women up there. brian: let me show you a picture of an older woman holding, i think it is an ar-15, sitting in what i assume is the church. you have no doubt seen this picture before. tom: yes, that without the -- that was at the blessing ceremony. brian: why do they need to have a rifle? tom: it is the symbolism. that was the ceremony that got a lot of nationwide, even international attention. that was february 28. the ceremony itself, again, without getting too deeply into religion, they have what they call stages of blessings for

different events, including marriage. most of the people at that ceremony were couples who were already married. they were getting another level of blessing, kind of renewing their vows in front of sean. he is king of the church. "appellation of the church," he is now king of the church along with his wife. in some cases, women who were widowed who were there, again, because you have a very active spirit world. they were there in memory of their husbands, as well. again, this gets into the co-mingling of guns and religion. they were not blessing guns, that was one of the misconceptions of that ceremony, but as part of the ceremony, sean was encouraging people to bring ar-15s with them to the ceremony. you may have noticed, the triggers were zip tied, there were no bullets in the magazines

in the rifles. but it speaks to the symbolism and importance of self-defense and a gun to your individual sovereignty and the church. brian: under the circumstances of what you saw, is this a tax-free institution? corporation or structurehow they the church, is that the same thing wih the gun shop? tom: the gun shop would be a private business. 501-c3.ch is a

brian: what is preventing us from inventing a church and putting a crown on her head and saying you have to carry a gun? tom: that is what, that is the question. there is what is called a johnson amendment in the tax code, named after lyndon johnson, i believe adopted in the 1950's. in essence, it says a nonprofit, particularly church, you cannot be overly political or endorse candidates. it is rarely enforced. this is a church that really tiptoes that line. in fact, they made a point, again, during the last presidential election of casting it that god was watching the election and judging how we were going to vote. they cast this in terms of the biblical story of the garden of eden. brian: let me wade through some of the language you quoted him as saying. in this case, it is sean on al gore, a fricking nut bag.

sean on 9/11, false flag. sean on hollywood liberals, the most despicable, thieving, conniving, manipulating, evil people on the planet. justin on the united nations, satanic. recipients,lfare parasites. on democrats, they should be rounded up and put in prison and executed. tom: i don't know where they got that notion. they are very inflammatory with their language. i specifically asked justin about it. why the hot rhetoric? his notion was, because some of the people they disagree with "satanic."ied as

he said, i am a believer and i speak in the language of the church, meaning satanic and demons. his contention was, i speak this way among my fellows, and if you had a group of liberals together and they talked politics, they would use language similar to this. i don't think in some measure, the sanctuary church appreciates that rhetoric. i understand where they are coming from. the danger in this is, where is your responsibility for that message and what it might do to other people? perfect case in point, we had a situation here in washington, pizza gate, the pizza parlor on connecticut avenue that for some reason, in the alt-right conservative circles, the word

out thatmor got hillary clinton was running a pedophile ring under this pizza parlor. alex jones on info wars was repeating this, and the information got out there. a poor guy in north carolina believes this, drives to washington. a sanctuary church member. i don't mean to imply that. but he went in and shot the place up because he was looking for child sex slaves. he is now doing for years in prison for that. there are people, and i spoke to some church members who left the century church, who were concerned about the messaging. and the hotness of the rhetoric, and you can't control those words after you speak them as to how it affects your congregation or people who are following your congregation, nonmembers. that is the danger when you mix that with guns. brian: sean moon, citing info

wars, which is alex jones out of texas, 30 seconds of video. adding more politics, this is mentioning george soros. [video clip] >> we knew they were trying to set the stage at because they were throwing their own people under the bus as sacrificial lambs, like al franken. there were evidence of photos of him grabbing a woman's breasts, groping her when she did not want to be groped. but now it is coming up that soros is a funder of those sexual allegations. look at that, absolutely huge. tom: george soros is a favorite whipping boy of the sanctuary church. i sat there, in the service, the same hot language toward margaret sanger. she was a racist, hated blacks. soros was a nazi.

canards is an alt-right arounds been floating for years. 14-years-old at ii.end of world war the alt-right has this up that he was a nazi. but george soros was -- brian: jewish. tom: right, and him and hillary clinton are sort of the talk radio villains. it is part of the message. it will be interesting watching the church going forward. number one, will they lose control of the message with some of their members, and they are tiptoeing a dangerous line. when you use politics and words "demons,"nic" and

which they did in the last election with ms. clinton. jimmy kimmel's satanic, oprah is satanic. when you mix that language with guns, and mix it with an antigovernment message, the roots of their antigovernment sentiments go back to their father's experience. brian: we have a couple of minutes. if you got in a car here in washington, d.c., how long does it take you to get from new -- newfoundland, pennsylvania? tom: you can make it in about four and a half hours. i made three trips. brian: why did they talk to you? tom: it is interesting, they refer to as the "washington post" as the washington compost bezos is not on their

favorites list either. partially, just the exposure, partly out of curiosity. they were surprisingly open with me. i was up there more than other reporters, but that blessing ceremony, which attracted the media attention, and were very good. there were very few restrictions, and the restrictions were common sense restrictions. well oflk down into the is church while a ceremony going on. you never get full access to the things you want on a story, but they were more open than i expected. i was also somewhat surprised, we caught more flak on this story from people who are opponents of the unification church and reverend moon feeling we did not go hard enough on sean moon. i was surprised that sean felt it was fair and balanced. brian: those who want to read it, it is from the may 27 magazine of the "washington

post." they can read it online? tom: it still lives online. our goal was a more nuanced approach. we were not out to do a cartoonish piece. brian: the name of the article is "locked and loaded for the lord," we thank you very much. ♪ announcer: for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q-and-a.org. programs are also available as c-span podcasts. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018]

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