the spread of information. you can watch it live at noon eastern here on these spent. later in the day, the open look at thes a good role of think tanks and nongovernmental organizations have in shaping non-us foreign policy. that is beginning live on c-span starting at 4:00 p.m. eastern. >> nominated to the supreme court by president ronald reagan -- in 1987,just as justice anthony kennedy is retiring after 30 years on the bench. monday, we will take a look at his legacy on the supreme court and its impact on the nation a clerk for justice kennedy from 2011 to 2012, and her assistant to the solicitor harsky, whoole sa argued 29 cases before justice kennedy and the court.

watch monday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span.org, or listen on the free c-span radio app. > a look at the future of space exploration and how nasa is scientificg is research group is subcommittee hearing included testimony from rent and former nasa officials. it is just under an hour and a half. good afternoon. this hearing is called to order. since the dawn of time, man has often looked into the night sky. and wondered what's out there? are we alone? and 300 dc, the greek philosopher epicurus assumed

that quote, other worlds with plants and other living things, some of them similar and some of them different than ours must exist. the basic question of wondering what lies out there is one that has driven civilizations to risk life and limb to explore not only this planet, but to venture out into the solar system. in 1977, nasa began an effort to try to better answer this question by launching voyager 1 and voyager 2. which were originally intended to primarily explore jupiter and saturn. each spacecraft carries a small american flag and a golden record, packed with pictures and sounds that are intended to be mementos of our home planet. 40 years after they were launched, voyager 1 has reached interstellar space and voyager

to is in the outermost layer of the healy's- - where the solar slowed by the pressure of gas. as each spacecraft continues on its voyage and transmits scientific information back to earth, we are left to wonder, if the great steve martin may still be proven right. that one day we will receive a forward response from intelligent life somewhere in the universe who received the golden record and simply request, send more chuck berry. the search for life isn't just a question of casual interest. it is an integral part of nasa's core mission. the nasa transition

authorization act of 2017, which was signed into law by president trump. this committee offered and added a short phrase, to nasa's mission. quote, the search for life's origin, evolution, distribution and future in the universe. the atlantic has described the addition of that short but momentous phrase as quote, a visionary one, setting the stage for a far-reaching effort that could have as profound an impact on the 21st century as the apollo program had on the 20th. since the enactment of the nasa act of 2017. we have more reason to be encouraged that we are on the right path. just before our last hearing, the journal of science published a report on radar evidence of some glacial liquid water on mars. using radar profiles collected from a satellite tween may 2012

and december 2015, scientists have found evidence of a 12 mile wide reservoir of briny water beneath the south polar layered deposits. just one month prior to the announcement of this discovery, nasa reported the curiosity rover had found new evidence, preserved in rocks on mars suggesting that the planet could have supported ancient life. we are making progress as we search for life's origin, evolution, distribution and future in the universe. as we look to draft a new nasa authorization act, hopefully this year. it is imperative we not only continue to make progress answering this question, but that we also equipped nassau with the capabilities it needs to support science missions and priorities that would lead to discoveries across our solar

system. this is a momentous time to be involved in space exploration. and i look forward to the testimony of our esteemed witnesses. now recognize senator mark, the ranking member for his opening remarks.>> thank you for having this extremely important hearing today with this incredible panel. last week, we gained great insight from our witnesses on how americans will venture out of earth's orbit among the on the moon and onto the surface of mars. today, we welcome another distinguished panel of experts that will point us in the right direction. as we launch science missions into the void of space with the hopes of making groundbreaking discoveries about our solar system, our universe and our very own home, planet earth. currently, nasa's science

mission directorate fund space science missions and research and a number of crucial areas including astrophysics, planetary science and helio physics. of all the portfolios within the science mission directorate that is often overlooked is earth science. with deadly fires gripping california and greece, extreme hurricanes in the atlantic. and searing heat waves and droughts around the world, our investment and nasa's earth science and climate research programs and missions must be both abundant and unwavering. nasa's essential earth observation missions including the carbon monitoring system, the orbiting carbon observatory 2. and the gravity climate experiment, give us evidence that the climate is changing.

if we are willing to pay attention, this information can help us prepare for more dangerous future. we must be sure that nasa's earth science program has the resources necessary to provide our scientists with the latest data so that congress and agencies across the government can combat this problem head on. so that our planet earth to the home to many future generations to come. finally, we are very fortunate to have doctor sarah - - director of physics at mit. who is a coinvestigator on nasa's test mission. nasa announced only a few days ago that tests have been turned on and has begun its search for distant worlds. - - once said, the nature of life on earth and the quest for

life elsewhere are two sides of the same question. the search for who we are. - - is one of the nasa scientific missions that will help us to find who we are. my colleagues and i have great confidence in the space community, including nasa's team of exceptional scientists and collaborators. we look forward to the testimony from our witnesses this afternoon. again, we thank you all for helping us to understand better what our mission here in congress should be to help you accomplish this goal. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. i recognize the member of the full committee, senator nelson. >> thank you mr. chairman. i would point out that this science mission directorate, it's an incredible amount that they do. 30 percent of the nasa budget

is here. and they are operating 60 missions on 80 spacecraft. it's vast. they want to unlock the secrets of the universe. you all have talked about the search for life and improving life here on earth. and so legislation that we are putting together is to add the search for life's origin, evolution, distribution and the future of the universe. that's about everything rolled into one. so, this is one of the geewhiz parts of nasa. and it is complementary with the human missions of nasa.

because one complements the other. can't do one without the other. it's going to be a real challenge for us to protect human life going all the way to mars. we've got to get them there faster than we get there now. and we got to protect them from being fried in the process by radiation. but what we will learn in that mission and that development of technology is to sustain human lifee, will also complement and vice versa, the science mission directorate. so it's going to be an exciting time for nassau. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you senator nelson. you talk about the danger of being fried in space. just yesterday, i was

mentioning to my staff, the old tv ads. this is your brain on drugs. this is your brain with a side of bacon. they were too young to have any idea what i was talking about. please to welcome each of the witnesses today. we will start with doctor thomas zurbuchen who is the associate administrator for nasa's science mission directorate. previously he was - - at the university ofmichigan and ann arbor .doctor thomas zurbuchen experience includes research and solar and helio spheric research. he's been in several nasa science mission including the ulysses space probe, the messenger spacecraft to mercury and the advance composition explorer. doctor thomas zurbuchen received his phd in physics from the university of bern in switzerland. our next witness is doctor

ellen stoneman who is the director of the smithsonian arrowarrow space air and space . doctor - - is the seventh person to leave the museum since apollo 11 astronaut michael collins oversaw its founding in 1976. and is the first woman appointed to the position. doctor - - previously served as nasa's chief scientist for three years from 2013-2016. in that role, she guided the development of a long-range plan to send humans to mars. worked on strategies to expand commercial activity in earth's orbit and supported nasa's science programs and helio physics, earth science, planetary science and astrophysics. prior to that, - - served as the chief scientist for the new

millenial program at the jet propulsion laboratory in california. she received her phd in geological sciences from brown university. doctor david's verbal is the charles a young professor of astrology and professor of astrophysical sciences at princeton university.my all moderate. for over two decades, doctor sparkle has worked on the interpretation and analysis of microwave background data to better understand the basic properties of the universe. doctor sparkle is the cochair of the science team for the wide-field infrared survey telescope. more commonly known as w first. he's been involved in many aspects of the mission and has contributed countless hours of work to creating a telescope that will ultimately let humanity see further into the universe than ever before. doctor sparkle received his phd

from harvard university in astronomy. finally, doctor sarah seeger was a professor of physics and planetary science at the massachusetts institute of technology. a native of toronto, doctor seger has made unprecedented discoveries and has gone leaps and bounds to expand humanity's knowledge in the field of astronomy. doctor seger's research has introduced many new ideas for the study of xo planets. in fact, she was part of a team that helped discover the first detection of light emitted from an xo planets. she is conducted swaths of research on theoretical models of atmospheres and interiors of all types of xo planets. i would note with all of these phd's, i think the senators sitting here are all badly

undereducated. with that, we'll have our first witness, doctor thomas zurbuchen. >> chairman ted cruz, senator nelson and members of the subcommittee, the work of nasa is at the forefront of scientific discovery and innovation. the questions we seek to answer affect humanity on a global scale and focus on our place in the universe. where did we come from? are we alone? questions that are well aligned with the topic of this hearing. later this month, nasa will launch a mission which will touch the son by actually flying the through its atmosphere. the parker solar probe is the first spacecraft designed to do so and will revolutionize our understanding of the sun's corona and expand our knowledge of the evolution of the solar wind. this mission will also make critical contributions to our ability to forecast changes in

space weather that affect life and society technological infrastructure on the earth. parker will join numerous other exciting missions launched in just a few months. - - satellite launched in mid april and as nasa's next planet popping mission searching for planets orbiting nearby stars. on july 21, it began conducting the first ever spaceborne all sky transit survey as its expected to catalog more than 1500 xo planet candidates. tess will detail - - and other missions. also launched in may, nasa's newest mars lander is now in route for a november touchdown. it will join a complement of

rovers and orbiters at the red planet. inside its advanced - - it will provide unique information on the interior structure of mars and thus, other planets. collaborating closely with the human exploration borough at nasa, we continue to use the international space station as a platform for great science. the - - instrument was carried to the space station by commercial - - mission. it measures agricultural water use in the united states and around the globe and will identify drought warning conditions. in fact, there's no program and nasa science that has more direct impact to everyday life than our earth science program as was mentioned. whether it's developing the tool to protect severe weather or drought or whether it's to

understand the complex interactions of the earth system. what we learn here affects our lives. for example, in the midst of the 2017 hurricane season, data produced from nasa's earth observing satellites were used to support real-time decision-making in response efforts by fema and others. nasa also integrates science in future human exploration goals with regard to the return to the moon and mars. establishing a new agency by lunar discovery and expiration program and leveraging nasa's extensive lunar science experience and data. nasa is jumpstarting commercial partnership, innovative approaches for building and launching next generation science instruments and the development of small rovers that will reach the most surface via commercial landers. with regard to the hearing topic, the search for life, planetary science provides some of the most exciting views of the unexplored worlds in our solar system.

progress continues on the mars 2020 rover which will carry a small helicopter to mars but a first for humanity. nasa is planning for mars sample return mission. i top priority identified by the scientific community. during 2019, nasa will continue development of the cutting edge - - mission to fly by jupiter's ocean moon. one of the most promising targets for finding life in our solar system. in many ways, nasa astrophysics and - - programs are working more closely together than ever. the search for life as will be discussed by the other witnesses here later. nasa is committed to answering the big questions and it requires commitment to new and challenging missions. in 2021, nasa observatories will be joined by the james webb space telescope. it will be capable of examining the first stars and galaxies to form and viewing the

atmospheres of nearby planets, outside the solar system. the web telescope and instruments are fully integrated and performed superbly during testing, comprised of a tennis court sized sunshield and undergoing testing. in march 2018, nasa recognized that it would take longer and cost more to develop than previously estimated due to issues of the spacecraft elements. i establish an independent review board to provide an assessment of the time and cost necessary to complete development. it provided valuable recommendations which we are all implementing. in conclusion, as we look forward to the future, nasa's science program will continue to contribute to the scientific and technological advancement of the united states and inspire future scientists and engineers to reach for the stars. i will be happy to answer any

questions. >> thank you doctor thomas. >> chairman ted cruz, ranking member nelson and the committee. thank you for the opportunity to discuss life beyond earth. as my esteemed colleagues will discuss, life beyond our solar system. i will focus on the search for life within our solar system. as a - - there is no other topic i find as exciting or as fundamental to future discoveries that will one day be highlighted in my museum as this one. all planetary science begins on earth. based on our understanding on how life emails here, it requires long-standing bodies of water. life evolved quickly once water stabilized which was about 3.8 billion years ago.

we know life is tenacious, diverse and highly adaptable. astro biologists have found life in extreme environments like volcanic lakes, and the top of the stratosphere. microbes have been found under high levels of radiation or consumed toxic chemicals. we find life on earth nearly everywhere we look for it. given the commonality of conditions here and elsewhere in the solar system, it is highly unlikely that life is unique to our planet. we know that the building blocks, amino acids are ubiquitous in the solar system found in comets and interstellar clouds. the next step is to identify environments potentially habitable to microbial life like those on the early earth with liquid water, a source of nutrients and energy. within the icy moods of the outer solar system, we have found subsurface oceans. jupiter is known and saturday on both have liquid water

oceans that have likely been stable for over 1 billion years. they are like the interest by volcanic eruptions from the moon's rocky intercourse. a possible source for both nutrients and energy. both moons invent their oceans into space and geyser -like eruptions and could easily be sampled by spacecraft without landing. the that sampled the liquid erupting from - - during a fly by and found the water to contain silica and organic molecules. all pointing to a habitable environment. that sample may have contained science of microbial life but the instrument were not designed to detect them.we need to go back to - - and to europa with better instruments. how will we know life when we see it? three years of peer-reviewed theoretical research, lab and field work, the astrobiology community has created - - [indiscernible]. the latter begins with a habitable environment with

biomolecules, metabolism and darwinian evolution. thanks to decades of spacecraft missions, we know how to take the next steps in the search for life. at europa - - and of course mars and eventually titan 3.8 billion years ago, around the time earth life arose on earth, mars was covered in water. it remained covered before it lost its magnetic field and the conditions became similar to what we see today. a dusty service bombarded by cosmicradiation. if like default on mars during its wet , early earthlike period, microorganisms should be present in surface rocks. that's why it's astronauts, not just orbiters and rovers that have gotten us to this point are required. biologist, and chemist on the

ground could do more than identify evidence of past life, they could study its. vision, complexity and relation to life on earth much more effectively than robotic emissaries. nasa could put humans in orbit around mars by 2033 and down to the service later in the decade. this is completely feasible and affordable if the agency focuses on the capabilities and technologies required. putting humans on mars by 2030, 20 years from now is not nearly as audacious as landing on the moon in eight short years that the united states accomplished nearly 50 years ago. it has the partners and technical expertise as we demonstrate every day with research groups like those at air and space and the smithsonian observatory. it is extremely well scoped and study. we only need to accept the challenge. putting aside the amazing scientific - - of a mars shop.

consider the political, cultural and historical benefits to this nation that came from the moon shots of the apollo program. this is another extremely exciting moment in human history. we know where to look and we know how to look. we have the technology to determine if light has evolved elsewhere in the solar system and can easily do so within the next two decades. thank you very much. >> thank you. doctor spurgle. >> thank you for the opportunity to testify. i am professor of astronomy at princeton university and managing director of the flatiron institute in new york. my spoken remarks will focus on nasa astrophysics be my written remarks discuss the broader program and with the chairman position i make with my written

remarks remain part of the program. a multinational program is the modern version of the construction of the great cathedrals of new york. - - are fundamentally long projects. in cosmology, we've learned that - - is remarkably simple and strange. nearly a century ago, doctor hubbell working at the observatory began our program of measuring the size and shape of the universe. over the past two decades, we find a simple model with only five parameters, the age of the universe, the density of atoms, the density of matter and the properties of the initial fluctuations describe all of

the basic properties of the universe. while successful, this model implies that atoms , the stuff that makes us up makes up only five percent of the universe. most of the universe is made of dark matter and energy. we don't know what makes up most of the universe. understanding the nature of dark energy is one of the most compelling problems in physics. both europe and china are leading missions to study dark energy. when i was in beijing, i was impressed by china's plan to launch a space telescope with its primary focus on studying dark energy. ...

it is meeting all technological requirements and on schedule for a 2025 launch. astronomers have learned that the solar system is far from unique. using observations from space craft and observatories, they discovered thousands of exoplanets revealing a diversity of planetary systems. there aree's line, more things in heaven and earth, horatio, than are dreamt up in your philosophy, is perhaps our best guide as to whether there is life elsewhere in the milky way. just as the expiration of the cosmos has driven telescope design, the study of exoplanets and the search for life beyond our solar system will likely shape telescopes of the coming century. the nasa mission launched in april should reveal many nearby planets. when launched, the james webb space telescope will be able to characterize the atmospheres of some of these planets.

w-first is the next step. overoronagraph should be 1000 times more sensitive than previous coronagraphs. it can not only image planets around nearby stars, but it is the steppingstone to developing technologies for the next generation of observatories. understanding planet formation requires using a wide range of observational approaches. within our own solar system, comets and asteroids, fossils of of the early solar system. radio observations reveal information. therst will complete census with these programs. they should reveal thousands of planets. these large projects are challenging, and require perseverance. jwsp's delays are frustrating to all of us. the report was painful to read at times, but i believe jwsp

will not only be a transformative astronomical observatory, but a flagship of all of nasa, and the eventual success of this complex project will be a source of national pride and u.s. technical prowess. since it is an agencywide priority, new costs should be spread around the agency. they are borne entirely by the astrophysics directorate, and will have an effect on future missions and the scientific program. despite the challenges, it's an incredibly exciting time in astrophysics. nasa satellites have enabled discovery of thousands of exoplanets, detecting neutron stars whose gravitational waves travel billions of light was thes, and are tracing dissipation of dark matter and dark energy. these raise new questions that future missions will answer in the years to come. the upcoming national academy of sciences survey will provide an opportunity to outline a new

vision for the coming decade. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. dr. segber. ranking memberz, markey, ranking member nelson, committee members, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. i start with a quote from one of our founding fathers, john adams. "astronomers tell us, with good reason, that not only all the planets and satellites in our solar system, but all the unnumbered worlds that revolve around the fixed stars are inhabited." amazing that even then they believed life was everywhere. although we don't have evidence for life beyond earth , we are the first generation with the capability of finding it. we know of thousands of planets orbiting other stars called exoplanets, and as we heard from the witnesses, we have a growing list of solar system bodies with evidence of subsurface liquid water including mars, europa,

enceladus, and others. because water is required for life, they may be able to support life. we heard from other witnesses that nasa's new planet surveyion, an m.i.t. led that started science operations july 21, and next weekend in august will be delivering the first signs data to earth. i thought you might appreciate knowing that. finding exoplanets today is standard operating procedure. it aims to discover the best planets for follow-up with the its telescope, with infrared capability making it suitable to observe exoplanet atmospheres. i just want you to know, despite the delays and cost growth, th exoplanet community is tremendous the enthusiastic because webb will give us our first opportunity to observe

exoplanets and search for life. webb will look at atmospheres for gases that might be attributed to life. on earth, oxygen is the best example, the -- because without it we would have no life. buts not limited to suns, also red dwarf stars. these planets orbiting red dwarf stars might be very different from earth, because red dwarf stars give off giant bursts of energy and ultraviolet radiation that would frequently bathe the planet surface. we had an event in the 1850's, and we are worried that might happen again because of the power grid, but on these planets, it had happe -- it happens daily. we humans could not tolerate it, because it would ruin electronics, to stable -- disable power grids and even destroy biological cells, but we

would hope life out there would be naturally adapted to the conditions. the ultimate goal is to find a true earth to win, one orbiting a -- twin, one orbiting a sun like our own. the huge challenge, an earth-like exoplanet is next to a big, massive bright star like the sun, and the difference in brightness between the two is one part in 10 billion, so we need a way to block out the starlight to see the planet directly. st chronograph instrument is the first high contrast space-based chronograph, with specialized optics. it will not be able to reach down to find other planets like earth, but it can study a dozen giant exoplanets already known to exist. it is critical to do this technology demonstration, for the future, for large nasa missions already under study. we have the technique to reach awn to find earths with

modified telescope called starshade, a giant screen tens of meters in diameter with its own starcraf -- spacecraft. the starshade does the hard work of blocking out the starlight, so only planet light enters the telescope, and technical reasons behind that are widely startshade can already find earth analogs, even with a modest telescope. the starshade builds upon large radio deployables, space-based radio deployable antennas. nasa has a directed effort to mature starshade technologies by 2023, although it could happen sooner with more funding. the starshade would be the first mission opportunity with the ability to discover dozens of new exoplanets, and the first chance we have to find if you planets like earth. the concept envisions a starshade launched after w-first to rendezvous on orbit.

nasa has directed the project to be operational with the starshade, with costs borne first by the w-first project, then by the starshade project. there are more details, but short on time i will move on to tell you, ok, in 2010 i became a citizen of the united states of america. the reason i came here to work at m.i.t. and be here, we are the world leader in space technology. we have some tough choices ahead if our nation is to be the first to discover signs of life beyond on a planet in our solar system or on a distant exoplanet. mr. chairman and committee, this concludes my remarks. thank you for your attention and for your continued support for nasa's space science missions. missions. immaculate start off with a

question to all four of you. why should we be engaged in the search for life? why does it matter in my should that be a >> let's start with a question. why should the search for life be important? >> this is how great nations make a mark. what they do for their citizens, but also have a move history forward. this will be one of those questions that will be remembered forever, because it will be a leap in not only understanding more about nature, but a leap in understanding ourselves at a level we never had in the past. >> you know, since thomas gave kind of the underlying philosophical answer, which i 100% agree with, i would probably like to focus on, you know, when we try to do things that are really hard, like we did at the time of apollo, when you push yourself to answer the really tough questions, that's when you really push technology forward. i would argue, when you push technology forward, you push your society forward, you push

the economy forward. so trying to answer these big questions, building big telescopes, sending humans to mars, these are an investment in the future of our country, and i think that is critically important. add anotherst element, which i see as a professor and working with students, which is, this is a question that i think engages everyone. this is a question that kids in elementary school, when you go talk to them, ask them, certainly something that college students are engaged with. and by asking this question, we draw people into science, and help bring in the next generation, who will be part of our s.t.e.m. education community. so i think this is another of the side benefits. many of us do this because we want to know the answer, but we have had these benefits that

come from exploring these questions. >> i will add onto that. most senior engineers today, in space science or national defense, national security, they were inspired by the moon landings. today, the equivalent of that is the search for life, and that public search, when we do discover it, will inspire that next generation to go into technology. secondly, for the record, it takes a ton of your science research to come up with anything practical, things he would never come up with if you search for some impractical. a reletting -- relevant example, gps. it did not come because someone needed a navigation system for their car. just by exploring, we have unique, practical spin offs. >> thank you. dr. spurgle, you previously tweeted, what is driving the acceleration of the universe, what are the properties of exoplanet atmospheres, how did our galaxy and its neighbors form and evolve?

what determines the architecture of exoplanets? u.s. should be leading the world in addressing these big questions. is the united states right now leading the world in addressing these big questions, and what do we need to do better to ensure n thewe are and remai global leader? >> i think we are leading the world in addressing these questions at the moment, but looking around the world, i see both excellence coming out of our european colleagues, the european space agency launching a number of space science missions that are pushing the edge forward. missionently, the gaia is giving us new insight. they certainly are at the cutting edge in areas like astrometry. they are often partnered with us in many of the projects. and looking east, i have been

very impressed by the investments the chinese are making in space. they were not even significant players 10 years ago. looking to where they might be a decade from now, if we stop investing, they will be the leaders. >> i will add on to that. >> unfortunately, the technology is finicky. >> we used to say, china can copy perfectly but not innovate. now that might be changing. they are pouring a ton of money into everything, ranging from solar panel technology to nuclear power to space, so we have to, it sounds trite, but we want to maintain our healthy budget here for innovative science. >> this committee is working on a new nasa authorization bill. year, theone last first one to pass in seven years, and we are working on yet another one i hope we will pass this year. let me ask the witnesses, what

do you see as the science-related priorities that are most important to be reflected in that bill? >> for me, and i will put on my hat as former chair of the space board, what we try to do with the surveys is identify what i think are the top scientific priorities in each of the areas that nasa science mission directorate works. planetary science, it has certainly been the top priority to go to mars, return a sample from mars, and followed by exploring europa. in heliophysics, understanding the processes of the sun, space weather. in astrophysics, completing jwst and w-first are the current

top priorities. we are about to engage in our process of looking at the proposed missions, identifying the next set of priorities. i think we will begin by thinking about what are the first key driving questions. the search for life will almost certainly be one. ofers include the processes galaxy formation, star formation, the emergence of structure. earth science, space, understanding the earth and using the vantage point of space to watch the changing environment, another key part of nasa's mission. remarksn cruz's started with the greeks and the planets. our priority should be finding a true earth twin orbiting one of our nearest sun-like stars.

that's a hard problem, but it is something america is leading in. the starshade, for example, is not being developed in any other country. >> senator markey. >> thank you. we want to search for faraway planets, but we also want to make sure that we do our work here on earth correctly. and nasa has been a leader in climate science, in helping us to understand where we live, and gives us the most up-to-date data and projections with missions like o.c.o.2. and grace. the associate administrator is , is nasa research important to understanding threats to climate? >> the earth science program is very important. the birth science program we have is very strong. we have -- birth science program -- earth science program we have

is very strong. we have satellites that are best in class, i counted 17. missions in orbit, several in development. i do believe that this is a very important program, unique program, complementary to other efforts in the government and beyond, very important for nasa and the nation. >> will you make a commitment to this committee that earth science will remain a priority for nasa in the years ahead? say, earth science as a key element has been with nasa from the beginning, and i'll make a commitment we will implement, the program being appropriated here, which includes a strong earth science program. in that sense. >> let's go down and have each of you give us an example of how deep space exploration rea

lates to or helps us back here on earth. example?ive us an we had gps given as an example from earlier space exploration. so how would it relate in the 21st century, to each of us, in terms of the breakthroughs that are possible? >> one of my favorite examples has always been back to the issue of climate, of how we really understand this planet's climate. when you put it in the context of saying, looking at venus, mars, saturn's moon titan, we have other planets in the solar system with different carbon dioxide, climates. by comparing the planet of earth to other planets -- climate of earth to other planets, it has really helped us understand what's happening here. we first identify the ozone hole

on earth, a scientist looking at venus came back and looked at the earth, and that was how the problem was first identified. >> that's how mario did that? interesting. >> another example that comes to mind, studying ice planets and looking at glaciers. you are looking at the same physics. the remote-sensing technologies, ice-sat 2 is launching in september. we use many of the same remote-sensing technologies when we go visit planets in our own solar system as we do looking back on earth. science, we see in you look at one example, you don't fully understand what's going on. we have understood the earth much better, understood processes on the earth by first observing things happening on

venus, on mars, elsewhere. and now when we look at extra-solar planetary systems, we are understanding our solar system better, as we see our solar system as but one example of many. and stepping back, getting this bigger picture, understanding this physical processes, makes us rethink the way we think about the year. >> medical imaging is one we are all familiar with. many people get mri's or other scans. in astronomy, we do the same thing, processing data from the sky, and medical imaging can thank astronomy for big leaps forward. my team, first at m.i.t. and then jet propulsion lab, we built a small satellite to find planets. what it does new in technology, it can point 100 times more precisely than anything in its mass category. will its legacy be defined exoplanets?

probably not. the people most interested come from optical indications, a way to pack more information than radio waves, and that is probably where it will be used. >> one of the things i have been personally involved with in my past before i took the job, in some of the spin outs from developing space technology, including electronics developed to study environmental conditions on mars that are now routinely used in manufacturing environments to prevent discharges from happening, and many others. there's so many. we could talk for hours. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. senator hassan. >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member, for holding this meeting. thank you to our witnesses. it is a real pleasure to see you all. i would like to offer an especially warm welcome to you, a brown alumnus. i'm glad the chair recognized

you as the first woman director of the museum. it's very important for girls and young women to see women leading in science. having a 50-50 panel here is a nice visual. i would like to start with you, to touch a little on space weather. theharlan spence leads institute at the university of new hampshire, my home state, a world-renowned expert on space weather. he leads a group studying the physics of cosmic plasmas, from the sun's corona to interplanetary space using experimental modeling techniques. this research will help enhance our understanding of the potential threats space weather can present to earth, among other unique discoveries. that's why investing in space weather research is so critical. resourcesoviding

needed to implement the national space weather action plan and strategy? last have started with the two or three years of investments that followed the plan. we have started to implement these recommendations. not all of them are fully funded at the leve initially foreseen, and a number of discussions are happening, as you know, across agencies of how we best do that. we are coming up with innovative ideas to actually get space weather data in a unique collaboration between nasa and noaa that was not initially foreseen. that level of discussion we are having as we go forward, and really come up with a full implementation of this action plan. yes, we are on the way. could we go even faster? probably. >> that's helpful. i know that as i understand it, nasa funds science missions

based on priorities set by the national academies of science, which makes a lot of sense, but there are obviously other, maybe more applied reasons to fund space weather research. how can nasa balance pure science priorities on the one hand, and national needs on the other when determining what research to fund? >> that's a really important question, one that i think about a lot in the context of both earth science, also planetary science. throughjects hurling space that could potentially affect human life on earth, and also space weather. in this case, what's interesting is that the entire community is deeply embracing space weather, and the reason i say that, if you go back to the guiding document of space weather, it's an important part of the entire program, and has a specific set

of recommendations we are following at the same level as the others. what we are trying to do, wherever we get guidance from the science community to implement that, with the constraints and overarching policy guides we get from here or elsewhere. >> would anyone else like to comment on striking that balance? >> we probably don't have a good answer for you, unfortunately. we are bound by the surveys, and you are right that it is a science priority, not a national needs priority. >> i think there will be survey heliophysics soon. having been involved in the process, if nasa instructs the academy to weight those priorities, that becomes part of the process. >> i would just add, nasa has a whole earth science, applied sciences area where they are doing critical work to support

farmers with drought information and crop information. i think that balance is really important and critical. in the earth sciences it is top of mind. >> thank you. , maybe we can follow up in writing, but i saw your remarks recently on the importance of diversifying the workforces that make all these critical scientific achievements possible. can you comment on how important it is, that we invest in our nation's children throughout early education, as well as through collegiate, postgraduate studies to ensure we have a pipeline of people like the four of you who can carry on this important research and make even greater strides for american space exploration? >> if we don't focus on increasing diverse the end science, technology, engineering and math, we are doing a disservice to our country, because we are not tapping into the talent of all of our population. for me, it is not just something

nice to do. it is something we have to do. it is something we focus on at the smithsonian. that's one of the things i hope to do at air and space, telling diverse stories, as we do across the smithsonian, to really inspire that next generation to be the innovators and explorers. >> thank you very much. >>. senator peters. >> senator hassan, i want to thank you for bringing up the space weather issue, one the university of michigan folks are involved as well. we passed a bill, the space weather research and forecasting act, which just came out of a house committee recently. unfortunately, i think it was weakened as it came out of the house. we hope to strengthen that, give -- get everybody on the same page when it comes to forecasting these weather events, which can be extreme.

i will ask you to talk a little about that. my understanding is that our space weather forecasting abilities are similar to our ability to forecast hurricanes in the 1930's, which wasn't that great. we have gotten a lot better. if we see an event like the carrington event, lloyd's of london has estimated that is over a trillion dollar impact on our economy. this is significant. we have not been reacting quick enough. not enough coordination, part of the act, to make sure this isn't a science, it is homeland security, defense, all sorts of issues related to it. can you tell us why it is so important to get going, making sure we have space weather capabilities? >> i am not an expert on space weather forecasting, but i see the carrington event like the earthquake in los angeles, all waiting for the big one.when it comes here , not just forecasting, but how we protect our satellites and power grid. >> anybody else? weather is, space

one of those elements of our research program. like in many ways, your esteemed faculty members would say the same thing. itn i did my grad school, was not as prevalent as we are thinking today. the simple reason, we are way more dependent on space than we were 20, 30 years ago, so this is becoming much more important. yes, we made strides. are we going at maximum speed possible? probably not. we are seeking to do the best. if you look at the 2019 budget, you see increases in some areas, to accelerate some of that work under consideration in this bill and others here. we seek to respond to what you senator,t because we see the importance.

>> not a question of if we will have a big event, just when, and we are past due. my understanding, if you see a blackout of the grid, big transformers, you could see power outages for six months to a year. folks who might read the transcript of this hearing, think of new york city without power for one year. that was the catastrophic for our country. this is an investment we need to make, in a thoughtful way. >> going back to what practical things come out of space expiration, this might be our best example. >> thank you. you mentioned the life on mars, the possibility for that. the question you said, basically, you are looking at water-based life, and mars had water for about 500 million years. that seems like a fairly short time, considering how long it took on earth. why are you confident that that is enough time that we might be able to find something there? >> remember, life arose rapidly

on earth when conditions stabilized. the first several hundred million years, conditions were hostile. as soon as conditions stabilized, with a 100 million years, we are fairly confident the first microbial life evolved on earth. the problem is life remained in the oceans for well over one billion years, and it took well over one billion years for life to gain any complexity. that's why i am optimistic life did evolve on mars, but not optimistic it got very complex. we are talking about finding fossil microbes, single celled organisms, hard-to-find. that's why i do think it will take humans on the planet, breaking up in a lot of rocks, to try to find is evidence of past life. and one sample is not good enough. you need multiple samples to understand the diversity. >> you brought up finding complex life. we have often been intrigued by the idea there might be civilizations out there that could communicate with us, could

be advanced. some argue that we should have probably already found that, if it exists, in the fact that the , 4.5 billiont years old, the universe is 14 billion years old, so you could conceivably have civilizations in existence for a billion years. they would be advanced, when you think about how much advancement we have now. are we confident we are searching in the right way for civilizations that may be so far advanced, not communicating the way we do. how do we even know that? this is a broad philosophical question, but something we need to look at if we are putting resources into probably the most intriguing question, life on another planet. >> we are heading down the right path. as we look for exoplanet around other stars, we try to understand the nature and variety of life that might have evolved in our own solar system. once we start realizing how common life is in this solar

system, it gives us a better basis. once we start gaining data on exoplanets, surface conditions, it gives as a basis for thinking, how likely is complex life, where should we go to find it? so i think we need more data. the way we are approaching the problem is absolutely correct. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator peters. a few more questions. the james webb space telescope, the successor to the hubble telescope, is meant to revolutionize the world's understanding of planets and star formation. as you know, the telescope was initially expected to launch in 7, costing roughly $500 million. the cost skyrocketed to $5 billion by 2011, and now delayed to 2021 with cost expected to surpass $9.6 billion.

what explains that incredible increase in cost and delay in deployment? >> that's the question i am asking myself and my team on a regular basis. i can tell you what we think are important questions. affectsn one issue that. first, excessive optimism. by the way, innovators need to be optimistic. you never start if you understand how complex the challenge is ahead, but excessive optimism can be trapping you into paths you regret later. so for us, for me as a leader and a manager, i want to build in mechanisms that actually look at this, such as independent reviews, the type david talked about, to get our arms around

it. the second one is the confluence like theing developing of 10 new technologies. every new technology itself, it's hard to guess how long it will take. 10 together is much harder, not 10 times harder. it might be 50, 100 times harder, because technologies interact with each other. for me, when i look at missions now, i want to understand how many technologies really are there, and try to understand whether we can develop these technologies before we lock in cost. third, i think we are learning know, what led to the increase in cost relative to the independent review board has to do with closing off the work there. what we are finding, challenges related to just doing the work and avoiding the impact

of human errors, embedded problems that led to increased cost. manage,ates to how we really make sure our processes r absolutely cle -- are absolutely clear, and we understand the culture of the workforce. this is not just all done at nasa. it's done in the entire contractor community. those are the three main reasons, lessons we learned. >> have these massive cost reassesscaused nasa to the effectiveness of cost-plus contracting for big projects like this? >> yes. we are talking about different contracting, in a variety of ways. new, innovative projects of the type nobody has ever done, it will be very hard to get a fixed-price contract from a

company. having been a board member on some of these companies, you want to understand why the ceo wants to do that. a matter of trying to understand where the right balance is between a fixed price contract, which of course protects the government, and frankly we have some of these fixed price contracts. in some cases, the company may regret that, or in some cases that's a good thing for them, which is what we hope. a cost-plus contract allows us to manage, as we go forward, learn new things, to really interact with that company and redirect them, if we want, towards a more optimized path. for us, we constantly look at the procurement vehicles we have, and try to understand whether there are new ones, like services contracts of the type we are using in the lunar program, which is totally different than anything else.

there is some risk, because it may well be these companies may not be ready, but we are absolutely looking at those. >> let me shift to a different topic. your written testimony states nasa maintains a vigorous planetary defense program, which includes the near-earth object observations project. as you know, earlier this year on april 15 an asteroid named 2019-ge3, estimated at wast 150 feet in diameter, spotted about 119,000 miles from earth, a distance closer than the moon. what are the greatest challenges our nation faces as it pertains to planetary defense from asteroids, and what steps do we need to take so we don't have to rely on sending bruce willis to space to save humanity? >> i like that movie.

[laughter] >> me, tiooo. >> what we have done in the 2019 budget proposal, we proposed creating an integrated program that takes advantage of all data sources, including from spacecraft out there to look for these bodies. we want to integrate that, get a real inventory of what is out there that is a threat, 140 meters and above. there are certain parts of the data where we will always be weaker o observing from earth. our plans propose we need to go away from earth, because frankly, you can't observe things coming out of the sun, because it is bright. you can't see these bodies. for us, to get that inventory, we will have to have an asset we currently don't have, away from the earth which can look back. once we have an inventory of this, the next focus is on

mitigating these threats. it's understanding of the threats and mitigating the threats. depending on the size, mitigation tools are different. we have one mission that we are working on, one type of mitigation, an impact. spacecrafty ram a into a body like this to give it target wouldn a bring it out of a collision zone. those challenges, focusing on this program. >> last question. nasa's incredible leadership on space exploration and science, we have also seen tremendous corporation and collaboration with the private sector. can and should nasa be doing more to utilize commercial partners and utilize private capital as it pertains to the

agency's science priorities? >>. why don't i start with that answer? we are continually assessing this. the way we are doing it, frankly, is to run experiments. for example, we are close to finishing off a commercial data spacecraft, which would provide a new way of getting data to the earth science community without having to even build the spacecraft. some companies might be better, cheaper at building these spacecraft.not all data , but some data. the service contracts, of the type we are using with lunar. and several others. hosting payloads on commercial spacecraft. we have three in our program. we are running experiments like that to see what is there and ou

r commitment is to continually do that, to really make sure we can offload things the private sector can do to the private sector. it's not our intent ever to compete with the private sector. our intent is to grow that sector and benefit from private partnerships to offload things possible there, so we can focus on the bleeding edge. >> i will add to that. spacex, planet labs, the in novation is in private commercial industry, because they can afford to take risks nasa can not. >> the ecosystem of partners has gotten much bigger. not just the aerospace companies, but areas like robotics. 20 years ago, i suspect nasa represented a significant fraction of all work in robotics. today it is a tiny fraction, with enormous money going to things like self driving cars, and of course factories.

i think there is an opportunity for nasa. i know they are doing their best to take advantage, to partner not only with the boeings and but many small companies growing in sectors like robotics, computer science, machine learning and so on. >> i would just add, i think it's really important for nasa to stay focused on what only nasa can do, and that for me hinges on things like building the next giant telescopes, making sure we understand this planet, and getting humans to mars. >> thank you. senator martin. i want to talk about nasa's mission prioritization process. we only have so much money. there are not many missions. the you satisfied with prioritization process? >> it is a question worth asking. we have the surveys. >> i will start with you and

then go down. because you are from massachusetts, i thought i would start with you. [laughter] i do want to hear from each of the rest of the witnesses as well. >> you have heard many times how the witnesses always go back to the survey, kind of the structure we are forced to abide by. i 20 say, any institution -- want to say, any institution, any structure around for more than half a century should be reviewed, to see if it is still effective. maybe it has already, but i think it is time to take a look. i think there's many areas of room for improvement, which i will not go into now. >> why don't you give us one example of improvement? >> i will give you one. in many areas of space science, we have the james webb space telescope, wfirst, and other missions, that the whole community feels if they don't have one mission that the entire community buys into, it

will never be selected by the survey. what this means, the community wants to put forward missions that are very complicated, with 10 new technologies. the question is, are we had a place of maturity where we should have more focused missions, figure missions, not trying to do everything in one place. we can't really do that in the current formulation of the survey. also this comment about the younger people. sometimes the younger people know more. they were the first to use instagram, do things, but also the way the hierarchy of the survey is. the top panel is senior people who don't necessarily vote, would not necessarily vote the same with the new generation what. >> and again, the kid who came up with instagram was a high school kid from hopkinton, massachusetts, so you are right. the process has been an

effective way of making prioritizations, and a process that can and is being improved. the academy, responding to a nasa request actually, looked at the process as a whole. one advantage of doing things many times, for multiple communities, astrophysics, planetary science, you can look across and see, when did the process work best, when were mistakes made? i think one of the mistakes made in the past, going back to jwsc, we did not properly study before the recommendations were made. if we were to go back in time, we would prefer to be able to build a four-meter james webb scope that launched for more money a decade ago and do other things. one of the lessons learned,

missions going into the survey do not go in as vague idewas on powerpoint. they are studied extensively beforehand. one of the investments nasa is making leading up to 2020, potential missions are studied, so that when they are prioritized, we know what we are looking at. ultimately, this is a cost-benefit analysis, and we need to have at least a preliminary understanding of cost. >> i was involved in the last two planetary science surveys. nasa, chief scientist at and i saw the process being hugely reviewed, given a lot of thought on how to improve it. i think it is an important, strong process that needs to be adhered to, because it really allows the best science to come forward. not the person who shouts the loudest or has the most

connections, it really is the best science. that allows the u.s. to retain our position as leading in so many of these fields. >> how do you correct that, so the people who yell the loudest and have the stake in the biggest projects -- >> in planetary science and earth science i saw that have been well. you had broad input from the community, input from across the scientific community. it was argued out in many small panels, in larger panels. >> so you are happy with the -- >> i am happy. >> ok. >> i have to tell you, i am really glad i am not in charge of science prioritization. the simple reason, i would not know how to do it in the absence of a framing activity that involves many voices. a very it has been successful activity, but like every human endeavor, it should always be questioned, and should be improved as we go forward. i resonate with dr. seger's

comments, a template is important, a diverse set of opinions, because that's where good decisions come from. people frokm different backgrounds, different priorities. some that have also been in the private sector, and actually understand that interface. it is really helpful. now, in some of this -- that's really important. i agree with her. we should as a community continually go question whether we are doing it the right way, but overall i'm really happy we have this. i don't know how i could do the job without it. >> thank you all for your service to our country, and to the planet. thank you. >> i want to thank each of the witnesses for being here, for your testimony. i think this hearing was helpful and productive, and your expertise made it so. the hearing record will remain

open for the next two weeks. during that time, senators are asked to submit any questions for the record, and for the witnesses upon receipt, i would ask that you respond with written answers as soon as possible. with that, this hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

narrator: next week, "booktvtv" is in prime time. senator kim scott and congressman trey gowdy talk about their book "unified: how our unlikely friendship gives us

country." divided then sean spicer by his book and calendar shorts with his book. wednesday at 8:00 p.m., lillian federman discusses her book. then, richard munson on his book . thursday at 8:00 p.m., jurong lanier on his latest self-help book. and on friday at 8:00 p.m. custer -- puzder. "booktv" in primetime. " isonight on c-span, "q&a next, discussing american history and the u.s. congress.

that is followed by our original series "1968: america in turmoil -- taking a look at the cold war." later, pennsylvania senator bob casey talks about efforts to make airline travel safer. ♪ >> this week on "q&a," a discussion on american history and the u.s. congress with congressional historians richard baker, donald richie, and raymond smock. this program was recorded at the robert c byrd center for congressional history and education in shepherdstown in west virginia. smock, if you had to have a dinner party for people in history, say, four or five people, who would you have at the table?