-- judge kavanaugh on roe v. wade. davidl hear from savage discussing judge kavanaugh's nomination and the abortion issue. also tonight, it is book tv in prime time with books recently written about president trump. we will start with sean spicer nd his book "the briefing." and the newt gingrich discusses "trump's america." roulette." ussian book tv airs tonight starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. on c-span3, american history tv 1968 presidential campaign between lyndon b.

johnson, george wallace, ronald reagan, and we hear remarks from former staffer pat buchanan as well as barbara perry. starts atistory tv 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. sen. casey: -- for discussion, we are joined by richard kauzlarich. we were talking about the grid, what does that include. that is the very basic question because my connection to the greatest when i come home at night and throw the electrical switch and i think most people think that is the most important part, but you have the production of energy which may come from coal, gas, nuclear power, you have its transmission, but ultimately it goes to the consumers. the grid is that network and

that is what makes it so complicated and vulnerable because there are many points of entry. it is not just the physical grid it is a cyber grid as well. , host: who is responsible for protecting the grid and how do you do that on something so vast? guest: that is one of the things we are working on at george mason. you have regulators in government at the federal level and the state level. you have private companies that own the production and transmission lines and then you have third parties who produce the technologies the companies and the governments used to regulate the systems. it is a very complex public/private relationship that has to be managed if you're going to protect the grid. it used to be people only thought about the physical side. someone said it was guns, guards, and gates. now that is not enough. , you can protect the production of electricity and the

production of natural gas, but if this technology that moves gas and electricity is more honorable to hackers, you have opened up a backdoor. host: what is the scenario who -- that keeps you up at night? guest: i have to go back to my service at the department of state. i spent a number of years in eastern europe and the former soviet union. you have to be concerned about threats from abroad. you have to look at who is capable and who has the intent to disrupt our electrical grid. i will start with the russians. we have seen their behavior in ukraine twice, 2015 and 2017 where a cyber attack was aimed at disrupting the electrical supply. they have gone after estonia, one of our smallest nato partners but most effective in this area, and they went after an oil pipeline according to

some reporting, that goes through turkey to the mediterranean sea. they have shown the capability and intent. now we have to worry about iran. sanctions are going to be applied big-time. they are not a major power. this technology is not just a purview of the u.s. and china and russia. smaller countries, organized crime and terrorist groups -- all of them can be equipped with the capability to disrupt our electrical. host: what do they want to do if they get into the system? guest: in the case of russia, this is based on past experience. they want to disrupt the economic life and potentially the social aspects of that for their own political purposes. in the case of the iranians, it may be something like revenge. you are going to put these sanctions on us you guys were , messing around with our nuclear program, we will carry out some attacks.

you can have organized criminal elements who for their own wantns, hold hostages and to make money would want to disrupt the system. motivations are complex but the challenge is how do you deal with all of these things as well as the hurricanes and other natural disasters that can equally disrupt the system. host: we are talking about the grid this morning. for about the next 25 minutes , we are joined by richard kauzlarich from the center for energy policy at george mason university. now's a good time to call in. republicans, (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents, (202) 748-8002. you can call in as we are talking about some of these threats. how often are cyber attacks being attempted against the u.s. grid? is this a daily occurrence?

guest: i'm not a cyber geek so you at to have someone who is in half the day-to-day business of assessing and reacting to those. they are regular. i think just the media stories we have seen recently indicate there are people out there who are trying, not just the electrical grid, we have seen it in our own electoral process, we have seen it and other businesses in the financial community -- this goes on regularly. it is an ongoing problem. host: what are some media stories that stick out to you and what has been the reaction with those tasked with defending those stories? guest: vice president pence talked in great detail about the cyber threat. the secretary of energy perry also talked about the energy system specifically in mind. the administration and those in

government including in dod are constantly aware of this and working on these activities. what i am encouraged by is that our nato allies are working with us to deal with this problem. little estonia is probably the best equipped country in the world because they have in hit -- been hit throughout their economy by russian attacks. being able to draw an international experience and bring a collective in nato together is important in dealing with this. host: one of the hurdles you see right now. you talked about the interconnection between private industry and the government. what sort of barriers does that create? guest: a major barrier is to only focus on one part of the problem. if i were to criticize the administration, it is this idea andt if we just allow coal nuclear plants that have been closed down to operate this will increase the reliability of the

grid. that is just a protectionists. once the electrons are generated, they go into a system that is perfectly capable of being disrupted by computer hackers anywhere in the world. focusing on one part of this is not a good idea. secondly, is getting this public/private partnership together, including universities. universities have a major role to play. there are cyber programs all over the country that can offer a lot in this area. finally, the international cooperation is critical because we are not alone. host: the private entities involved, the businesses, how much are they willing to share with the federal government and how much are they trying to keep as their own intellectual property? guest: that is part of the problem. the federal government does not own the technology, it is the companies that do. we can go to dominion resources

in virginia and talk about this problem. they get their i.t. support from some third company who may not be anxious for details to come out. i understand that. it is the idea of collaboration , coordination, and communication that has to be emphasized in the public/private part of this. host: let's chat with a few callers. eddie from massachusetts is first. sabrina: good -- caller: good morning. when i was in new york mario comeau would not allow a nuclear plant to open up. they went online and took a beating. they went to congress and said keep the rates for transmission low, so now we are in a critical situation. we are vulnerable. you mentioned iran. we sent worms in. we sped up their centrifuges and

their oil drilling wells, and even they have banking. they know how to do it. thank you. guest: the northeast is a good example, especially on gas pipelines. the mindy issue has prevented the building of a gas pipeline that would bring natural gas to the parts of the northeast and last winter, they had to import russian fuel to stay warm. this is not a move that enhances u.s. energy security. it is electricity, it is natural gas and a good point about iran because they understand how to get in different parts of our system that may only indirectly touch on energy but still be points of vulnerability. -- howow reliant or we reliant are we on other countries for our energy usage? guest: the good news is not really. we have made extraordinary progress in the last two decades

that we are now the largest energy producer in the world, along with our canadian and mexican neighbors. we really do not need in a physical sense, a lots of imported oil and gas to keep our economy going. it is certainly less of a vulnerability and more of an instrument we can use to help our allies, as the president talked about with the eu, exporting u.s. natural gas to europe. host: avery, an independent, next. caller: a great subject. it is one of my major concerns and fears about the country we have that go about the world conducting this hegemony and the things we do around the world and we rely on this power we supposedly have that is easily

destroyed when you take down the electrical system. two months without power in this country would put us in the stone age. we are using antiquated, hundred-year-old power lines, grids, nuclear plants that should have been decommissioned 30 years ago and between iran, russia, they would be foolish to try to take this on militarily. when something as simple as a hack to our system would cripple us. in 2018, it is outrageously shameful that we do not protect our main vulnerability because we spend all of our money in needless wars rather than rebuilding our infrastructure. host: i think we have your point. guest: the infrastructure point is really critical. in the energy area whether you're talking about electricity or gas pipelines, all of these

are areas where we need to modernize our basic system if we , are going to be meeting the needs of the 21st century. electricity is the greatest energy demand sector in our economy. if we cannot provide that energy cheaply, reliably and in a diversified way we will have problems. critical to that is modernizing the infrastructure, including pipelines and electrical grids. host: where are the oldest part of the infrastructure? guest: i'm not sure you could isolate them. the whole country has issues. the commonwealth of virginia, because of the production of nonconventional gas, now there is a gas pipeline we are talking about building. that raises the nimby issues. if you look in the older urban areas of the united states you will see real problems in the electrical grid and the production side.

host: about 15 minutes left with richard kauzlarich, former u.s. ambassador and codirector of the center for energy, science, and policy at george mason university. for viewers who are not familiar, tell them some of the work you do there. guest: we have tried to look at energy in a holistic way because we recognize that a lot of technology is coming out of the engineering and science area that enable not only the production of energy and the distribution of energy in different ways. i am part of the public policy school. we look at all of that and say what are the policy implications. how do regulators address the problems created by this new technology that maybe they do not have to deal with a couple decades ago? our objective is having a cross university program to hold faculty and students together and address those who are

concerned about virginia energy issues. the problems we've been talking about this morning are national. host: lindsay is up next in powder springs, tennessee, a republican, good morning. caller: pioneer, tennessee. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: this is a pet peeve of mine. i hear about people attacking our power grid with the internet. my question is, what is wrong with having a person with a phone or a radio at a switchboard and telling them which switch to flip or tell

them what needs to be done without being hooked to the internet? it seems like a made-up problem to me. guest: you have put your finger on exactly what happened when the russians when after the ukrainian system. the reason they did not succeed is because the system relied on manual switches and they had guys going around and flipping switches. the problem for us is our companies have applied i.t. technology to all of this. it might be hard in most of these cases to find a switch to flip. that is why our vulnerability is so great. host: in election security, we talk about having a backup paper ballot to electronic voting machines. is there a backup manual switch built on the various ways we make and move energy around this country?

guest: now you're getting out of my comfort zone. i think there are a number of ways you can do backups. one thing we can do, especially with our canadian neighbors, and we have seen that in the past in the 1970's when we had that massive electrical failure in the northeast united states, we relied on canada for electricity. having cooperative arrangements with our neighbors is going to be important. within the united states regional cooperation between states becomes critical. these are not just seen is the -- as the responsibility of a single state but a region. i am sure the tech guys are working right now to figure out how do we avoid the problem of a single node collapse. host: pedro is in virginia, a republican. go ahead. caller: i'm in the d.c. area and i would like to see both my kids go to george mason university,

for what it is worth. how do we know as civilians who is really launching these attacks and why can we not have oversight over the people that tell us who are launching these ?ttacks the -- attacks attackedw for sure who , i cannot member the name. guest: i look at the media coverage of these 12 russian people accused of being directly involved in the attacks on the u.s. electoral system and you read the judicial proceedings underway now, we are able to go not only to specific locations physically, but buildings, computers, and individuals using

them. if we can do that it is possible , to trace this actor whom is -- this back to whom is responsible for it. our national security has reasons why you do not want to make that a matter of public knowledge. my judgment is we have that capability so we can identify who actually is doing it. the question is what you do about it? host: one group that has come up is fancy bear, who are they? guest: that is one group of russian intelligence officers who are allegedly responsible for the attacks on the democratic system. these groups constitute and reconstitute themselves all the time. phillip is in michigan, line for democrats. good morning. caller: i was wondering if you had any idea who it was that attacked in san francisco or los

angeles -- it was a topic on "washington journal" within the last year and i was wondering -- just south of me, the town was called ferguson, michigan. the gas is always $.25 cheaper. they have their own grid. if power goes out they have generators ready to go for the last 100 years. i was wondering, could you get people to put the "washington journal" logo underneath the desk and cover-up that ugly pink? [laughter] host: philip with a couple different comments. guest: i will let you take the last one. the point about distribution systems and production in the grid is becoming more and more critical as renewables take over.

in virginia, when it was just a dominion resources, they were the source of power for the commonwealth. now you have these companies and individuals who are able to generate their own electricity. how do you integrate those people into the grid? that is an additional vulnerability to cyber attacks, the more people you have involved in production and distribution, the more opportunities there are for cyber attacks. it is a big problem. i do not know about the case he mentioned in california. i am not into the day-to-day problems. host: i did want to ask you about the dhs cyber incident response act of 2018. what does that do and how far along is it? guest: i have not followed the progress of that particular legislation. part of the government response is not just the executive branch. it has to be the legislative and making sure our laws and

regulations are 21st century laws and regulations dealing with the real problems we are confronting. the idea of more congressional interest, more public interest is critical. host: who seems more hawkish? the administration or congress in terms of moving more money to this problem, in terms of getting more eyeballs on this issue? guest: each part of government has its own particular interest s in this. the dod national security part of the government has one set of interest. rick perry and the department of energy wants to promote coal and nuclear power. they are looking at that part. members of congress, depending on members of their constituency, are going to have different interests. that is the great part about of america. you bring all of that together. the more eyeballs the better. host: in nebraska, a republican. caller: i thought "washington journal" had had this on before.

at least last year, but i know they had said that florida and texas were independent grids and would not be affected if other regionals went out because they had their own grid. are there other states that are now doing that and shouldn't we make each state responsible for its own grid? guest: texas is an interesting case because they are one of the largest producers of renewable energy. that is because of wind. california is another example of the diversified electrical system that has taken a different approach, even going further in terms of renewables. i think it would be a mistake to look at this as a state-by-state problem. this is a nationwide problem. host: can states be independent? is that even possible these days? guest: texas may be able to because it produces natural gas

and wind power, but why would you want to? i think you want to have, back to your question, backup systems, you want to have cooperation with other states or of their own grids in case something does happen to your own. host: allen in brooklyn, line for democrats. caller: since most of the principle of hydropower is gravity flow and we have so many high-rise buildings, we have the capacity for water storage at great altitudes, why don't we look at the possibility of having water towers in high-rise buildings in urban areas to store power? pump water up to the roof or the upper floors of buildings? and another possibility for spreading the burden.

guest: i will take that back to our engineering school. interestingly, i have heard about this in virginia where water is pumped up the side of a mountain during the day and allowed to generate energy in off-peak hours. the technology is there to do this. the question is cost. i want my lights to go on when i come in the front door. i also do not want to pay an arm and a leg for the electrical bill at the end of the month. some of these technological improvements are just not commercially viable. host: in terms of bringing the grid up to date, has anyone put a dollar figure on what it would take just for the infrastructure side of that? guest: i've not seen a figure i would rely on.

this is a massive -- if you think of this is a countrywide challenge for pipe lines, electrical grid, it is in the trillions. host: if someone gave you those trillions, where would you start? guest: i would start by trying to understand better what our grid is and where the points of vulnerability are and where there is an immediate need for modernizing, but really today's world, power is not just an individual states concern. concern anduntry's we need to look at it that way. host: time for a few more phone calls this morning. the gridlking about and great security. john is in hawaii on the linegu. yes, good morning. yes.- caller: yes, good morning. i would like to know what the electrical companies are doing

to protect us from a solar burst. that could happen and it will someday. it will knock us back into the stone ages. host: can you explain the threat of that and what that is and what it would do? guest: at least as i understand it, and this is an area that gets me on my area of expertise, but electromagnetic burst , whether caused by a foe -- we have seen discussion of this as an aspect of military power between the russians and ourselves, or it could be something solar. part of the problem in building an electrical system that is resilient is you cannot make it resilient against every threat. this may be one of those that it would be really hard to build a specific protection for or from. but again, it gets back to the nature of the grid system. you have to have enough

resilience and backup in the system that if there is a hurricane or an event like the caller just described, we can work around it. it is possible to imagine any number of things from a hurricane to a solar burst that would cause this problem. host: richard kauzlarich works on these issues at the center for energy science and policy at george mason university. thanks so much for your time. guest: thank you. >> senate confirmation hearings for brett kavanaugh to be a supreme court justice are expected in september. senators are likely to question the judgment over roe v. wade, the 1923 decision that struck down many restrictions on abortion. tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, c-span's landlocked cases presents an in-depth look at roe v. wade. we would hear from a supreme court reporter, david savage, discussing judge kavanagh's