have a right to know what he said, how he advised the president, what he wrote. those are things that republicans are hiding from the american people and keeping secret. >> let's not waste time. judge kavanaugh is extremely qualified for the supreme court. stop playing politics and join us in supporting his confirmation. >> watch day one of the senate confirmation hearing for supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh live tuesday, september 4, on c-span three. orch any time on c-span.org listen on the free c-span radio app. >> each week in this segment, we take a look at how your money is at work in different federal programs. gretta goodwin of the government accountability office joins us to talk about a new report that tracks immigrant incarceration and its cost to the federal government.

start with of the terminology we are going to be using today. criminal alien is the term that is used throughout this gao report. why that term and what does it mean? a criminal alien is someone who is not a citizen or a national of the u.s. who has been arrested and/or convicted of the crime. we use the term alien because that is a term that is defined in statute to its part of the immigration and naturalization act. these could be immigrants legal or illegal. guest: correct. host: how many aliens are currently in the criminal justice system right now? guest: for the purposes of our report we actually studied two populations. the first are criminal aliens who are incarcerated in federal prison. the second population are in, serrated -- incarcerated in federal and local.

was 190,000.n the study population we did a subset that was about 500,000. when you look at the numbers in terms of the changes. i will talk about what our objectives were. the first objective was to look at the numbers and nationalities of the criminal aliens incarcerated. was to look at the arrest and convictions of criminal aliens. the third was to look at the cost of incarcerating the criminal aliens. the fourth had us look at the experiences of criminal aliens after their term of incarceration. majority the vast illegal versus legal? guest: most of those are illegal. i misspoke earlier.

the criminal alien is someone who is not a citizen of the country. it's that individual who has been arrested or convicted of a crime. ist: the number we are using 2.5 billion. the cost of incarcerating criminal aliens. how do we come up with that number? guest: when you look at the federal population that number has actually declined over time. 2011 and 2010 that number was 1.56 billion. in 2015 that number was about 1.4 2 billion at the federal level. level the number in 1702011 was about one point and then decreased to about 1.11. does it cost so much more to incarcerate criminal aliens on the federal level versus the state level?

there's a whole lot more criminal aliens incarcerated on the state level. the costs are roughly equal. guest: what's interesting about our numbers at the state level there's no database that will give you all the numbers at the state level. in order for us to look at numbers at the state level we use the state criminal alien assistance program. program thatral will reimburse state and local jails for the cost of incarcerating criminal aliens. we are looking at correctional officer salaries. medical care. not every state participates in the program. it is likely that the numbers for the state level do not represent the full cost of the state level. these are the data we were able to have access to. host: we are talking about the cost of incarcerating criminal

aliens with gretta goodwin of the gao. to join the conversation, republicans (202) 748-8000, democrats (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. what is the government weountability office? guest: are part of the legislative branch. we are kind of the investigative body of the congress. we evaluate and investigate all federal programs. if your agency is receiving money from any of the federal we will audit or evaluate or investigate. the purpose of what we're doing is to ensure that federal moneys are being spent in the most

efficient and effective way possible. host: is not happening when it comes to criminal alien incarceration? guest: that depends on how you look at it. we don't have a complete picture of what that looks like. also the reimbursements for the program are relatively low. we don't haveon the full picture is because not all states are participating. the second reason is because the reimbursement rates are pretty low. federallates to the level we have a pretty good idea because those numbers tend to be. host: why did you decide to do this report? asked by three congress persons. senator chuck grassley, representative steve king and examine this to information. gao has done this report a few times. about every five to seven years we will of take the review.

part of what we were doing this time is to examine the change over time. when i talk about the federal population in our study we were looking at from 2011 to 2016. when i talk about the state population we are looking at 2010 to 2015. those pickup from the last report. report we issued was in 2011. host: what happens to criminal aliens after they serve their time in u.s. prisons? are they deported? guest: some of them can be. not all. that's the fourth objective in whateport where we look at the experiences are for the criminal alien after incarceration. some may be removable. some may be in immigration proceedings. the likelihood that you would be removed right away we couldn't get a full sense for that because of the way the

immigration process works. host: do any go on to become citizens? guest: yes. 16 of the people in our population ended up being naturalized. host: out of how many? guest: a few hundred thousand. it's a very small percentage. host: gretta goodwin with us taking your calls and questions. dale is in chesapeake beach, maryland. republican. go ahead. caller: i wanted to make a couple quick comments. all of 2017 especially or even during the election there was a lot of backlash about the border wall effort and how much it was going to cost and how it was a big waste of money. to $20 anywhere from 10 billion. obviously it wouldn't stop all illegal immigration but if we are talking three to $4 billion a year that it's costing our government state local and of theseo put all

people through our justice system it sounds like that would pay for that while over five to 10 years. studytion about the regarding what's criminal or not. isn't crossing the border illegally itself still a violation of the law and does that not get counted as to whether someone is classified as a criminal illegal alien? the bordersing illegally is considered a crime. we list some of the types of crimes for which they are incarcerated. one of the largest percentages of those is immigration. when we talk about immigration illegal entry is a part of that. host: the other question was on the border wall. does gao have an official estimate of what they think of border wall will cost? guest: we have ongoing work on that. my colleagues in another

part of my department is working on that. host: who requested it and when is that study coming out? guest: i will have to get back to you. i don't quite remember. host: laura is waiting in michigan. independent. caller: good morning. i see on the screen that says 2.5 billion dollars for the immigrant incarceration. i wonder how much it costs the taxpayers for the president to fly to mar-a-lago in the winter. i think it's several million dollars every time he flies. that is an expense that we could do without he cuts he could stay in the white house that we prepare for our presidents. it's a small 123 room building. with full service.

and these poor people are being treated so shabbily. mine whoseiend of distant relative is among those people that are incarcerated at the present time. they were planning on coming up to michigan. they went through enormous trouble to get here. to get to texas. i think it's appalling how we spend our money. and iteople need help should be primary to take care of it. i'm so embarrassed with what's going on in my country and the lack of respect that we have for humans. only the people and i include congress that go to mar-a-lago to golf or up to bedminster. question on where these criminal aliens are coming from. can you talk through the nationalities of the folks that come through? guest: absolutely. the majority of the criminal

aliens are coming from mexico. the other countries of the federal level are honduras, guatemala, columbia. it's relates to the state very similar. at the state level the majority is from mexico. also el salvador and germany. host: how many of these folks end up free incarcerated and come through the justice system several times after they are released and not deported? guest: when we talk about arrest and convictions we are talking about over the period of time we estimate it has been about one million transfers arrests and convictions. we put those together because it's really difficult to track. this is an issue with the database. how the data are collected and tracked.

we use arrest and transfers together. host: explain what a transfer is. guest: from one law enforcement body to another. in the are arrested bureau of prisons and then you move over to border patrol. or if the u.s. marshals have you in custody and then you move over to border patrol. it's a transfer from one agency to another. we use arrest and transfers together. we estimate that about 1.4 4 haveon times individuals been arrested or transferred over the course of the review session. in ladysmith,s virginia. republican. go ahead. caller: hi. as a layperson who has a vague idea of what's going on in the federal government or local government it appears to us that many of these studies are done and then our elected officials

say, i did something. what is done with this benefit do iwhat get from all the information that the federal government gathers and never do anything? guest: a part of what gao does as we produce these reports and to do these investigations to help congress make policy decisions. asked to provide basic general information about the state of criminal aliens in the u.s.. andcongress will take that possibly make policy decisions or choices about it. what's also really good and informative about this report is the information we provide at the state level. because there is no one database that holds all this information together the information that we provide gives some insight into what's happening at the state

level. the's really where most of public is having these experiences with this population at the state level. host: at the end of a report like this is there a segment that says this is what you should do? guest: we typically will make recommendations. there are no recommendations in this report. one of the key takeaways is that the numbers have decreased over time. and in terms of the countries that we talk about from the 2011 report the countries are also pretty similar. additionally we are providing information about what's happening at this level. which can sometimes be difficult to figure out. what's an example of rp you have worked on where you have given specific recommendations of what congress should do? guest: i work for gao. i'm in the homeland security and justice team. my portfolio covers justice and law enforcement issues.

i work on issues related to the federal judiciary, the federal firearms policy, federal law enforcement. as well as vulnerable populations and overall justice issues. recently i did a report looking at human trafficking of native americans. whether that was happening on native american soil or native americans across the country. one of the recommendations we made had to do with the data. the department of justice didn't have as much information or weren't tracking whether human trafficking victims, the race of that victim. one of the recommendations we made was to do better tracking. host: cheryl is in washington, d.c., democrat and caller: good morning. thank you for being on this morning representing the homeland security. that the interesting data is talking about aliens.

it is supporting just what the president has been talking about. whether you are a nonresident or a resident the mentality that we have for people now coming to america has gotten very disturbing to everyone. are asked take the data and put it back to the congresspeople who asked for it. i'm hoping that the data would support the fact that we can do better in how we treat each other. goodwin, anything you want to pick up on that lack of guest: we did make a recommendation where we are tasked with providing basic information. what gao does is provide the information so that congress can make policy decisions that are the best for this country. host: spring valley, california.

line for democrats. good morning. caller: my name is earnestine simmons. i'm sitting here watching gretta goodwin. inc. you for your service. was wondering why you keep referring to immigrants as aliens. that sounds so inhumane and like they are from outer space somewhere. not comfortable with that terminology. is there any reason why you keep saying illegal alien? on are we only focusing mexico when there are so many other borders that have immigrants that come across like canada, honduras. sweden. all these other places. guest: the reason we use the term alien in the immigration and naturalization act that's how it's defined. i do hear and understand the concern about referring to another human being as alien. when gao does the work we have to focus on what the statute and the laws are.

that we refer to the individual as a criminal alien. that's the first question. the second question -- i forgot. host: i apologize. michelle is in michigan. republican. go ahead. >> i find this fascinating. 2.5 billion on incarceration? the first thing i would suggest is that you take all of the immigrants we've got here from say iran or one of those places and get a million of them. drop them in the middle of mexico and see how they like it. at that point they will do something about this quarter as well. we are not the only ones that have the problem. secondly this kind of money being spent for incarceration. why are we incarcerating them? why don't we send them back?

spend thatzes me tosecondly amount of money to keep them in jail. guest: the first part of her previouss what the caller asked. it's about the border. it isn't just mexico. in our report mexico is the largest percentage of criminal aliens who are incarcerated in the u.s. but as this caller guatemala,hunter s, columbia. el salvador and even germany are included both in state and federal population. the second question about why don't we just send them back. once you break the law in the u.s., there are procedures. the justice system will take you through a number of different procedures. the first objective we have in our report is to look at what finisheshen someone

their time of incarceration. some of the criminal aliens are removable and indeed are removed. some of them might be going through the immigration process and aren't removed as quickly. some of them actually become naturalized citizens. that's a really small number. but that's how it happens. the justiceave system once you enter this country and you end up in the justice system then you have to go through the appropriate processes. host: how long to criminal stay insually incarceration? is it longer in federal incarceration versus state incarceration? guest: we didn't really go into detail with that. in order for the states to get reimbursed from the state criminal alien assistance program the individual has to be

housed within the state facility for a particular period of time. as it relates to the federal prisons we did not really look at that. host: on the state criminal justice program? guest: alien assistance program. host: is there legislation to overhaul that program yet the concerns about the data and how that is administered right now. guest: there has been legislation to either eliminate the program or decrease the funding even further. another takeaway from this report as you look at what's happening at the state, the program is really the only one that gives us any kind of data for us to look at how the states are experiencing a criminal aliens in their location. more callsfor a few with gretta goodwin of the gao. larry is waiting in petersburg, illinois. independent.

go ahead. i had a question. i come in a little late on this. my question is i thought you said not all states are participating in i was just wondering if like my state of illinois is participating in this program or california and new york are also participating. also you have mentioned this was written busted by three republicans. are there any democrats that requested any information on this? thank you. i don't remember offhand whether illinois is one of the dates that participates in the criminal aliens since program. new york and california do indeed participate. in the report and we talk about those are the new york,

california, arizona, texas and there is a fit state. those are the states that have of criminalnumbers aliens incarcerated in their state facilities. we do look at those. i don't remember offhand if illinois participates. something tells me it does. i don't remember right offhand. gao report is available online if he was want to check it out. about whethert any of the democrats requested this study, no. the three compass group of requested the study are all republicans. the three congressman who requested the study are all republicans. in terms of this particular work it was requested by three republicans.

host: king george, virginia is next. democrat. good morning. how many illegal aliens are here that overstated or visas and how many of those are incarcerated and what countries are most of them from? guest: as it relates to overstays gao has done a report on lisa overstays. to that.irect you i don't have that information in front of me. we do have a report. if you go to our website and you type in the search engine visa overstays you should be able to get that report to that came out about two or three years ago. and then the second question. host: countries where the folks come from. guest: the countries we have talked about. at federal and state the countries with the largest population of criminal aliens

incarcerated in the u.s. is mexico. other countries are el salvador, honduras, guatemala, germany. and columbia. host: a question that has come up that wasn't addressed in your particular report but come up last week especially in the death of the iowa student mollie tibbetts. questions about crime rates. whether illegal immigrants create -- commit crimes at higher rates than american citizens. does gao have an answer to that question? guest: we don't have an answer to that question. whatwas a terrible tragedy happened. for the purposes of this report we didn't do a comparison between whether criminal aliens committed more crimes than u.s. citizens. we do have some information on convictions. particularly as it relates to homicide. and of course the numbers are

just larger because the u.s. population of incarceration is larger. haven't done any work on that. host: dana is in l.a.. republican. good morning. caller: i'm a trump supporter and i was born in south l.a.. and i'm white. i appreciate how you come at relative type of way. not emotional. you stick to the numbers and you stick to the facts and i appreciate how you do your job. but i will tell you in l.a. if you look down the street you can see the way it is set up down the streets. you can see for 30 blocks down the street. on any street in l.a. from first-rate all the way to 160 for miles. was bornhe day when i here are used to see these the

streets empty. mostly the black community where sees born at your you would how cars are parked on the street. normal houses and all of that stuff. now today or is not one parking spot anywhere down the streets and they are parked all over the front yard. host: we are running out of time. what's your question for gretta goodwin? my question is this. incarcerating these people is one thing. , itou don't build this wall is insane. it's absolutely insane to wear when i was a kid going to high school here in jordan high in l.a. now it is like a third world. it is insane how many -- host: more of a comment that question. what did we leave out? what else should we know about? guest: another thing that we look that is whether any of the criminal aliens appeared on the terrorism list. it's a small percentage. we didn't have that many.

we did have some who actually appeared on the terrorism list. the justiceduals system ran its course but it was something we were a bit surprised by. with thosehappened individuals? guest: some of them have been removed from the country and some are in jail and host: gretta goodwin is with the government account on q&a, historian charles also talks about his biography on president benjamin harrison. >> when he was nominated, he was in indianapolis. at his house, people thronged and he gave for speeches that day. his campaign people said, this is the thing to do, let people come to you. so over the next four or five months until the election, that is what happened.

harrison stayed home in his own bed, he would meet delegations and visited delegations from around the state and that country. often, they would. the special interest groups, all minors, wheat farmers, con farmers, and harrison would give , mostlyhort speech attuned to their own interests, but something that would resonate with people, generally. he had his own stenographer take done what he said and that he would go over what he had said, to be sure that it was what when he wanted to put to their associated press the next morning. historian charles calhoun sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. c-span, or history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies.

and today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy events in washington dc and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. coming up tonight on c-span, submitters a tribute to their late colleague, john mccain, who passed away saturday in arizona. then, nebraska senator deb herher debates challenger. after that, a discussion on school safety, the fbi and future conservative leaders at conference. then, a speech about u.s. foreign policy. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] creeper ncicap.org]