campaigns. james clapper, michael hayden rogers will talk about the relationship between presidents and the intelligence community. live from george mason university in virginia, here on c-span. q&a, richardht smith discusses his biography of herbert hoover. >> is that accomplishment is all that matters. it is an unsentimental -- the sort of thing you would expect an engineer to say. that is one of the keys to understanding his life, his success in everything but the presidency. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q and a.

this 17th anniversary on terroristber 11, 2001 attacks, we are joined by the expert from the rand corporation. where are we on the war on terror? be a balance sheet of pluses and frustrations. we have succeeded in degrading the operational capabilities and plundered al qaeda. was of the territory that taken by isis has been recovered. truly degraded their operational capabilities, particularly their ability to carry out large-scale, ambitious attacks in the united states. they have been largely reduced to haveexploitation

homegrown terrorists carry out attacks. in that regard, they have had some measure of success. dozenhave been about two attacks over the 17 year. .- 17 year period these have resulted in over 100 deaths, and average about six a year. seen -- in the immediate shadow of 9/11, we were concerned about further 9/11 scale attacks. in the most recent communication leader of isis, he called on his followers to carry guns,tacks with knives, threattomobiles, still a

and still potentially lethal, but far down the register. in that sense, we have had a measure of success. we have had less success in countering the narrative of the jihadists. we are not good at it. we are better on the battlefield then we are in ideological warfare. we have not dented the whormination of jihadists are continuing the struggle. they will carry this on, this continue for the foreseeable future. host: as we sit here in 2018, do we have better ability to say ends or what continue s -- the victory will look like? kick -- i do not think we can say when this will

end. those in the middle of the 30 year war or 100 year war know that they were in the middle of a 30 year war or 100 year war? it was safe to say, and many of the analysts did say early on that this was going to be a very long struggle. in terms of victory, we will not get the kind of conventional victory that we saw in world war ii. the leader of al qaeda or leader of isis will not come out on the deck of an american battleship & a surrender. on the deck is -- of an american battleship & a surrender. what we face is a conflict of varying intensity for this is -- for the first future. we can -- for the forseeable

future. that we willay is hold on to our values and that various -- and that these terrorists will not cause the country to collapse in alarm. host: we are talking about terror threats and the war on their -- war on terror, 17 years after september 11. .rian jenkins joins us if you want to join the conversation, democrats can join in at 202-748-8000. republicans at 202-748-8001. .ndependents at 202-748-8002 i should note that we would be taking viewers live to the commemoration ceremony in pennsylvania when that starts, around 9:30 this morning. we may also see live images from the commemoration ceremony in the pentagon in this hour as we are talking with michael

jenkins. feel free to call in with your questions or comments. we are talking with brian jenkins. feel free to call in with your questions or comments. would you leave -- would you have believed that that was possible back in 2001. would think it was possible, but there was extraordinary concern. had failed to identify the 911 attack or a wee hat -- 9/11 attack. we had no idea how many more attacks or what this pacific scenario -- or what the specific scenario -- this scenario would be. thatuld not run the risk -- of doing nothing and not responding immediately with every measure we possibly could to prevent a repetition of that

attack. as it turned out, we were able to quickly disperse al qaeda and scatter them, reduce their capabilities, and able to quickly mount a major intelligence effort worldwide, that has continued since then. developmentsf the that people are not entirely aware of. the u.s. intelligence efforts and the creation -- the u.s. and creationffort of alliances across the planet have made the terrorists' operational environment a lot more hostile to them. money,ement of people, operatives that we saw in the run-up to 9/11, i am not saying it cannot take place today, but

it is a lot more difficult for them. cooperationgence has extended beyond our usual like-minded allies and brought in some participants that would perhaps have preferred to stay on the sidelines, but al qaeda tunisia,in indonesia, egypt, saudi arabia convinced a lot of nations that this was not simply a battle between al qaeda and america, that this was a global campaign. host: richard is up first on the phones from missouri. a democrat. caller: good morning. 9/11, i remember it well. real tragedy looking back and thinking about it, the tragedy we have had since then

with all the wars, the gold star they got toave had, us bad and we turned around and made it worse for ourselves. having all of these refugees from iraq everywhere. i guess in a way, they won we just tried to get even and i think -- i don't know. it has been a disaster ever since. host: mr. jenkins, your thoughts? i don't know that we were simply trying to get even. time,was concern at that --faced the most around us

certainly the subsequent invasion of iraq complicated things. that is still highly but whatever the wisdom of the decision to invade iraq, we know that the jihadists were able to quickly take advantage of the chaos that followed. one of the things that comes with the very long struggle is there were going to be events, some of them of our own making, others like the political turbulence that accompanied the so-called arab spring that is going to change circumstances and gives space to our jihadist foes. foes, weg with those have to make sure that we are

not going to do things that are ofng to fuel the animosity others in the world and in fact complicate our own mission. host: we still have al qaeda, taliban, now isis. is there a terror organization that most concerns you? guest: we should not become too wrapped around the identities of .he organizations it was al qaeda and then we saw division within the jihadist movement between al qaeda and isis. we continue to see something far more fluent than most people imagine. there are doctrinal differences in al qaeda, differences within isis. there are some within isis in fact that think -- himself is an

apostate. movement complicated looking ahead. both possible to envision continuing divisions between al qaeda and isis and yet in some parts of the world, they are cooperating and it is not inconceivable to see some kind of merger, at least at the local level. .he movement will continue host: jeremy is an independent. caller: i would like to put some facts and some sources in the nature of international terrorism which what had to do

with what the previous caller identified, that these wars have not been good for the world and that september 11 in terms of the constitution which is what our military is supposed to defend had article three section three. who werepeople actually arrested as suspects on september 11 were operatives of israeli intelligence in white man's. if people want information on that, they should look at veterans today. the fort lee mystery. , written the 28 pages by jeff smith. a high-level u.s. intelligence. people also might want to go look at the lawyers committee for 9/11 that just submitted a document to the southern district of new york earlier

this year about what actually happened in the trade towers. host: we got your point. do you want to respond? guest: i don't have a great deal of time for these conspiracy theories. there are people who contend that the planes did not crash into the towers, that these were staged operations. i think the weight of the evidence points to exactly what we saw, that this was an odd -- us -- that this was an audacious and unfortunately successful plan by a terrorist enterprise and we have gone after that terrorist enterprise to .ismantle it say, therely, as i is always a swirl of these various theories and contentions

and they just get in the way. has nothingomment to do with party affiliation. i am calling specifically about united airlines flight 93. i do not understand why it is not referred to as united airlines flight 93. that flight was not a mystery flight. the people on board that flight were not mystery people. they were americans and other people as well. i knew the captain. i flew from new york to san francisco with him and he was a real captain and one of the best. i am very unhappy that it keeps referring -- being referred to as 93. it is united flight 93 and i would prefer that in the future that you would do us a favor and call that united airlines flight 93.

thank you and have a nice day. host: the commemoration ceremony for united airlines flight 93 taking place in about 15 minutes out in shanksville, pennsylvania. we will take our viewers their live when that starts. john is in herndon, virginia. a democrat. caller: thank you for taking my call. -- most ofa person arevictims of terrorism countries that are majority muslim and we see that if you look at the problem right now, they are stronger than before. when he to find a way to fight terrorism because it looks like terrorism caused by economic issues. the terrorists train young people who have no future where they live. we have no accountability. when you look at what is happening right now, in yemen, the government destroying this

country, there is no accountability and people expect the united states to do something about it when something goes wrong but if we -- they don't pay responsibility and this issue will never stop. it becomes a symptom that keeps coming back. host: mr. jenkins? the unitedt of all, states is blamed for the world problems and for not solving the world problems. the united states cannot take this on and has not taken this burden. exclusive increasingly realizing that this

is a long struggle, united states efforts are determined to deal with these local issues. in some cases that may be to improve governments -- governance. it is mainly to improve their abilities to legitimately suppress these terrorist organizations. this is not a fight simply to be waged by a the united states alone. host: you have been at this a long time, studying terrorism issues with the rand corporation. can you talk about the nature of terrorism when you started this work compared to today? guest: some differences. certainly the major developments over the past half-century have been beginning from the early 70's, the late 60's and early

70's, the spread of terrorism to become a global phenomenon. point, one would have to to the standardization of a terrorist repertoire of tactics and its development as a strategic weapon. third, one would have to point to the very dramatic escalation in terrorism we saw, particularly between the 1970's and 9/11. the worst incidents of terrorism measured in fatalities in the 1970's, saw deaths in the tens. in the 1980's, this increased to the hundreds. online 11, we crossed over into 9/11, weands -- on crossed over into the thousands. there were real concerns we would see terrorist incidents

with tens of thousands of casualties. this could be achieved only with the use of weapons of mass instruction, which was a real concern. instead of the vertical escalation, but we have seen since 9/11 is kind of a horizontal escalation. that is, where these terrorist organizations through the internet, through social media reach out directly to inspire attacks in other countries. most of these attacks are carried out by individuals with very limited capabilities. they carry them out with guns or knives or drive vehicles over people on sidewalks, and that is arelevel but those attacks so random, a kind of pure terrorism, that they nonetheless increase alarm.

the final biggest developing we have seen over the last half-century is the normalization of terrorism. in the 1970's, we were still trying to think that we really offibit, could we close terrorism as a mode of armed conflict? we have not been able to do that and looking forward, terrorism certainly would persist as a mode of political expression and is -- and as an element of armed conflict. host: 10 or 15 minutes left with brian jenkins of the rand corporation. commemoration ceremonies taking place both at the world trade center site in lower manhattan, you can watch that live on c-span two. also the ceremonies have gotten underway at the pentagon this morning. we are showing that live on c-span3.

here on c-span, we will take you to shanksville, pennsylvania for president trump's friend marks in the ceremony that is set to take place there starting around 9:30. with mr.n, your calls jenkins from the rand corporation. pete in phoenix, arizona, republican line. -- if you don't believe me, there were two articles that everybody must read currently on antiwar.com. trump going neocon in syria, pat buchanan on protecting al qaeda and the other is why is the u.s. siding with al qaeda, rand paul on proxy wars in iran. everybody must realize there has been a fundamental change in u.s. policy. we are going to attack syria if they go in and try to take over

a province dominated by many al qaeda forces. everybody needs to read these articles and call your representative and demand a vote to stop this war. host: mr. jenkins? guest: there is concern about -- thetle of it live battle of -- i don't think anyone is particularly interested in protecting al qaeda or isis. about thee concern is vastness of her's of civilians in the area -- fast numbers of civilians in the area who will either be casualties or will be numbers ofst civilians in the area who will either be casualties or will be sent streaming out of the area

as refugees. france andkingdom, the united states have voiced concerns about the use of chemical weapons which are prohibited internationally. in terms of participating in the conflict, i would have to say that the united states is really on the sidelines now. syria,ave some forces in but they are not playing a role in this offensive. i don't think there is any fortite in the nation involving the united states or sending a war combat troops into syria. this is something that i don't think this on. host: oak ridge, tennessee, independent. caller: good morning.

thank you for this opportunity. i am retired military and it is sad to say that we have failed to understand as to why 9/11 happened. once we understand that, then we can begin to resolve this problem that we have with terrorism. source is the holy bible to understand. we can learn a lesson as to what happened to israel. they put their trust in their military might and oppression. we did it back in 1991 and 10 years later, we had 9/11 take place. .od control the storms host: have we done enough to

understand the causes of the attacks? guest: do we understand all of the causes? this is an area of a tremendous amount of discussion. as one of your previous callers had pointed out, is this driven by poverty, is it driven by political expression? the evidence on that is pretty weak. modern democracies can suffer from terrorism as much as developing countries. when you asked earlier about the difference between now and 50 years ago, in the 1970's, we were dealing with 50 to 60 terrorist bombings a year. fortunately we have not seen anything like that since 9/11.

or is it driven by ideology? is it driven by religion? there are a lot of different .heories about motives that is an interesting area of study. we do want to understand it. at the same time, the fact is we have to provide for the common defense of this country and deal with the threats, regardless of motive. i am still very much in favor when terrorist attacks occur in this country, that we treat these as crimes and that motive is not an issue here. murder is murder and if you pretend to be an army or pretend that god is whispering in your ear, it makes no difference. we are dealing with criminal activity. in these large-scale terrorist

enterprises, we are dealing with it on a global scale. i am somewhat bemused by the fact, and i understand the the call and democrat and independent. i don't see terrorism as a partisan issue and i hope i am not being naive when i look back to that moment right after 9/11 democrat,nation, ,epublican, independent religions right across the board , we looked at 9/11 and we mourned the losses and we resolved to prevent this kind of thing from taking place. unfortunately, that kind of considerably as

everything has become a partisan issue. host: when did it start? what are the main causes of that erosion? guest: there was a long-term trend that precedes 9/11 toward partisanship in this country and i am not saying that different political philosophies and political parties are not going to contest ground on the basis of how they think the country should be organized and run. has is the way a democracy worked. what has happened in subsequent years is that terrorism increasingly has become a opportunityue, an for a party to attack the other occurs, anan event

opportunity to propel political of fear andhe basis apprehension which can be a very powerful political tool and that is unfortunate. at the end of the day, it is not going to be how many concrete bollards we can erect around government buildings and how many jersey barriers we can put up to protect bike paths and how many surveillance programs and big data programs and artificial intelligence programs we can facilitate intelligence collection and analysis. in the final analysis, it is going to be our own courage, our own self-reliance, our own sense of community, our own unity as

americans that is going to againstully defend us the terror and division that terrorists are trying to create. host: viewers on their screen seeing vice president mike pence just laid a wreath at the memorial at the pentagon as part of the commemoration ceremony taking place. you can watch that live on c-span3. in commemoration ceremonies shanksville, pennsylvania couple minutes from getting started. pennsylvaniae in is also featured on the front page of today's metro newspaper in philadelphia, voices of heroes is the headline. president trump and others will visit shanksville to honor the crew and passengers of united any three -- of united 93. time for just one or two more calls. texas,in lagrange, republican. caller: good morning.

affect like to know what do you think that allowing dual citizenship has on a potential terrorist attack. guest: i did not quite understand that. could you repeat that? caller: what effect allowing onl citizenship has effects potential terrorist attacks. what kind ofng citizenship? host: dual citizenship. guest: i am sorry, i did not hear you correctly. i don't know. view, not theal product of analysis. i am always somewhat skeptical of dual citizenship. i think you can only be loyal to therefore i am

not a fan of dual citizenship. if people come here as immigrants, they have an opportunity to be u.s. citizens and that should be the goal and that means severing ties as my grandparents did on both sides of my family, from whatever country they came from. to move tokably were another country and swear allegiance to that country, i cannot imagine maintaining my citizenship in the united states at the same time. that is a personal view. what affect dual citizenship has had on terrorism, i am not entirely sure. few who have been

arrested for carrying out or plotting terrorist attacks in this country have had dual citizenship. about half of them are u.s. areign citizens and others -- radicalized here. american jihadists are made in the usa. host: brian jenkins is a senior adviser at the rand corporation, an expert on terrorism there, joining us from los angeles. >> coming up this afternoon, a conversation about vladimir putin's use of propaganda and control of the russian media. that is live at 3:00 p.m. eastern. at 6:00 we will hear from

google, facebook and microsoft to hear what they are doing to protect lyrical campaigns, live -- political campaigns on c-span. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service. to bring youtinue unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. this evening on c-span, the former director of national intelligence, fourth were -- former see i-8 -- cia director and -- they will gather for a discussion about the relation between presidents and the

intelligence community. at 8:35 we will bring you the national service from the pentagon. then president trump who spoke at the flight 93 memorial. , tom kean and lee hamilton. some30, the 9/11 memorial -- ceremony from new york city. reporter bob post woodward is our washington journal just talking about his new book. tuesday at 8:30 a.m., ken starr joins us to talk about his book. join us next week on c-span's washington journal. >>