on c-span 3, women's bipartisan caucus hosts a discussion on sexual harassment on the workplace and a conversation with ruth bader ginsburg at george washington university law school. >> c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979, crmp span was created as a public service. nd we bring you unfillered coverage of congress, white house, and supreme court and around the country. crmp span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. al now on the 17th anniversary of the september 11, 2001 terrori st attack's, we are joined by michael jenkins of the rand

corporation. 17 17 years on, where art -- years on, where are we on the war on terror? guest: it would be a balance sheet of pluses and frustrations. you certainly succeeded integrating the operational capabilities of the jihadists. we have gotten most of the territory that was taken by isis , it has been recovered. we have truly degraded operational capabilities. reticular lather ability to carry out large-scale and particularly their ability to carry out large-scale and vicious attacks. they have been largely reduced to exhortation, to inspire homegrown terrorists to cure her out -- to carry out attacks here and in that regard they have had some measure of success but not a great deal.

there have been about two dozen jihadist attacks over the 17 period.riod -- these have resulted in unfortunately over 200 deaths, about six a year. 9/11, immediate shadow of we were concerned about further 9/11 scale attacks. yet in the most recent communication by the leader of isis, he called on his followers here to carry out attacks with automobiles. with still a threat, still potentially lethal but far down the register. in that sense, we have had a measure of success. success in less

countering the narrative of the jihadists. we are not very good at doing this. we are a lot better on the battlefield then we are in ideological warfare. we have not dented the determination of our jihadist foes who continue the struggle. they will carry this on, this conflict will continue for the foreseeable future. host: to that point as we sit here in 2018, do we have any better available -- ability to say when this ends or what victory in the war on terror actually looks like? guest: we can't say when exactly it will end. historically, those who were in the middle of the 30 year war or the 100 year war in history know that they were in the middle of a 30 year war or 100 year war. this was goingay

.o be a very long struggle the leader of isis or al qaeda are not going to come out on the decks of a nevada -- of an american battleship & a surrender. what we face is a continuing .onflict of varying intensity on the other hand, we can say every day that we hold on to our values, that these terrorist foes are not able to cause this country to collapse in fear and alarm.

that is a continuing victory. host: we are talking about terror threats and the war on terror. after september 11, 2001. brian jenkins joins us from the rand corporation, a terrorism expert. if you want to join the conversation, democrats can join in at (202)-748-8000. republicans, (202)-748-8001. independents, (202)-748-8002. viewersing to be taking live to the commemoration ceremony in shanksville, pennsylvania when that starts, expected around 9:30 this morning. we may see live images from the commemoration ceremony at the pentagon in this hour as we are talking with brian jenkins. feel free to start calling in now with your questions and comments. 9/11, we have not had another attack on the scale of 9/11. believed that was

possible back on september 12, 2001? guest: i think it was possible but there was extraordinary concern. clearly intelligence had failed to identify the 9/11 attack. idea how that time no many more attacks or what the .pecific scenarios might be it was certainly a desperate time. we could not run the risk that and notof doing nothing responding immediately with every measure we could to prevent a repetition of that attack. as it turned out, we were able --quickly dispersed al qaeda disperse al qaeda, scatter them and reduce their capabilities.

we were able to quickly mount a major intelligence effort worldwide that has continued since then. that is one of the developments that people are not entirely aware of. the u.s. intelligence effort and the creation of alliances across the planet have made the terrorist operational environment a lot more hostile for them. the kinds of movement of people, movement of money, movement of operatives we saw in the run-up to 9/11, i am not saying it cannot take place today, but it is a lot more difficult for them. cooperationgence has extended beyond our usual like-minded allies and brought

in some participants that would perhaps have preferred to stay on the sidelines, but al qaeda tunisia,in indonesia, egypt, saudi arabia convinced a lot of nations that this was not simply a battle between al qaeda and america, that this was a global campaign. host: richard is up first on the phones from missouri. a democrat. caller: good morning. 9/11, i remember it well. real tragedy looking back and thinking about it, the tragedy we have had since then with all the wars, the gold star they got toave had, us bad and we turned around and made it worse for ourselves.

having all of these refugees from iraq everywhere. i guess in a way, they won we just tried to get even and i think -- i don't know. it has been a disaster ever since. host: mr. jenkins, your thoughts? i don't know that we were simply trying to get even. time,was concern at that --faced the most around us certainly the subsequent invasion of iraq complicated things. that is still highly

but whatever the wisdom of the decision to invade iraq, we know that the jihadists were able to quickly take advantage of the chaos that followed. one of the things that comes with the very long struggle is there were going to be events, some of them of our own making, others like the political turbulence that accompanied the so-called arab spring that is going to change circumstances and gives space to our jihadist foes. foes, weg with those have to make sure that we are not going to do things that are ofng to fuel the animosity others in the world and in fact complicate our own mission. host: we still have al qaeda,

taliban, now isis. is there a terror organization that most concerns you? guest: we should not become too wrapped around the identities of .he organizations it was al qaeda and then we saw division within the jihadist movement between al qaeda and isis. we continue to see something far more fluent than most people imagine. there are doctrinal differences in al qaeda, differences within isis. there are some within isis in fact that think -- himself is an apostate. movement complicated looking ahead. both possible to envision

continuing divisions between al qaeda and isis and yet in some parts of the world, they are cooperating and it is not inconceivable to see some kind of merger, at least at the local level. .he movement will continue host: jeremy is an independent. caller: i would like to put some facts and some sources in the nature of international terrorism which what had to do with what the previous caller identified, that these wars have not been good for the world and that september 11 in terms of the constitution which is what our military is supposed to

defend had article three section three. who werepeople actually arrested as suspects on september 11 were operatives of israeli intelligence in white man's. if people want information on that, they should look at veterans today. the fort lee mystery. , written the 28 pages by jeff smith. a high-level u.s. intelligence. people also might want to go look at the lawyers committee for 9/11 that just submitted a document to the southern district of new york earlier this year about what actually happened in the trade towers. host: we got your point. do you want to respond? guest: i don't have a great deal of time for these conspiracy theories. there are people who contend

that the planes did not crash into the towers, that these were staged operations. i think the weight of the evidence points to exactly what we saw, that this was an odd -- us -- that this was an audacious and unfortunately successful plan by a terrorist enterprise and we have gone after that terrorist enterprise to .ismantle it say, therely, as i is always a swirl of these various theories and contentions and they just get in the way. has nothingomment to do with party affiliation.

i am calling specifically about united airlines flight 93. i do not understand why it is not referred to as united airlines flight 93. that flight was not a mystery flight. the people on board that flight were not mystery people. they were americans and other people as well. i knew the captain. i flew from new york to san francisco with him and he was a real captain and one of the best. i am very unhappy that it keeps referring -- being referred to as 93. it is united flight 93 and i would prefer that in the future that you would do us a favor and call that united airlines flight 93. thank you and have a nice day. host: the commemoration ceremony for united airlines flight 93 taking place in about 15 minutes out in shanksville, pennsylvania.

we will take our viewers their live when that starts. john is in herndon, virginia. a democrat. caller: thank you for taking my call. -- most ofa person arevictims of terrorism countries that are majority muslim and we see that if you look at the problem right now, they are stronger than before. when he to find a way to fight terrorism because it looks like terrorism caused by economic issues. the terrorists train young people who have no future where they live. we have no accountability. when you look at what is happening right now, in yemen, the government destroying this country, there is no accountability and people expect the united states to do something about it when something goes wrong but if we -- they don't pay

responsibility and this issue will never stop. it becomes a symptom that keeps coming back. host: mr. jenkins? the unitedt of all, states is blamed for the world problems and for not solving the world problems. the united states cannot take this on and has not taken this burden. exclusive increasingly realizing that this is a long struggle, united states efforts are determined to deal with these local issues.

in some cases that may be to improve governments -- governance. it is mainly to improve their abilities to legitimately suppress these terrorist organizations. this is not a fight simply to be waged by a the united states alone. host: you have been at this a long time, studying terrorism issues with the rand corporation. can you talk about the nature of terrorism when you started this work compared to today? guest: some differences. certainly the major developments over the past half-century have been beginning from the early 70's, the late 60's and early 70's, the spread of terrorism to become a global phenomenon. point, one would have to to the standardization of a

terrorist repertoire of tactics and its development as a strategic weapon. third, one would have to point to the very dramatic escalation in terrorism we saw, particularly between the 1970's and 9/11. the worst incidents of terrorism measured in fatalities in the 1970's, saw deaths in the tens. in the 1980's, this increased to the hundreds. online 11, we crossed over into 9/11, weands -- on crossed over into the thousands. there were real concerns we would see terrorist incidents with tens of thousands of casualties. this could be achieved only with the use of weapons of mass instruction, which was a real concern. instead of the vertical escalation, but we have seen since 9/11 is kind of a

horizontal escalation. that is, where these terrorist organizations through the internet, through social media reach out directly to inspire attacks in other countries. most of these attacks are carried out by individuals with very limited capabilities. they carry them out with guns or knives or drive vehicles over people on sidewalks, and that is arelevel but those attacks so random, a kind of pure terrorism, that they nonetheless increase alarm. the final biggest developing we have seen over the last half-century is the normalization of terrorism. in the 1970's, we were still trying to think that we really offibit, could we close

terrorism as a mode of armed conflict? we have not been able to do that and looking forward, terrorism certainly would persist as a mode of political expression and is -- and as an element of armed conflict. host: 10 or 15 minutes left with brian jenkins of the rand corporation. commemoration ceremonies taking place both at the world trade center site in lower manhattan, you can watch that live on c-span two. also the ceremonies have gotten underway at the pentagon this morning. we are showing that live on c-span3. here on c-span, we will take you to shanksville, pennsylvania for president trump's friend marks in the ceremony that is set to take place there starting around 9:30. with mr.n, your calls

jenkins from the rand corporation. pete in phoenix, arizona, republican line. -- if you don't believe me, there were two articles that everybody must read currently on antiwar.com. trump going neocon in syria, pat buchanan on protecting al qaeda and the other is why is the u.s. siding with al qaeda, rand paul on proxy wars in iran. everybody must realize there has been a fundamental change in u.s. policy. we are going to attack syria if they go in and try to take over a province dominated by many al qaeda forces. everybody needs to read these articles and call your representative and demand a vote to stop this war.

host: mr. jenkins? guest: there is concern about -- thetle of it live battle of -- i don't think anyone is particularly interested in protecting al qaeda or isis. about thee concern is vastness of her's of civilians in the area -- fast numbers of civilians in the area who will either be casualties or will be numbers ofst civilians in the area who will either be casualties or will be sent streaming out of the area as refugees. france andkingdom, the united states have voiced concerns about the use of chemical weapons which are prohibited internationally. in terms of participating in the

conflict, i would have to say that the united states is really on the sidelines now. syria,ave some forces in but they are not playing a role in this offensive. i don't think there is any fortite in the nation involving the united states or sending a war combat troops into syria. this is something that i don't think this on. host: oak ridge, tennessee, independent. caller: good morning. thank you for this opportunity. i am retired military and it is sad to say that we have failed to understand as to why 9/11 happened.

once we understand that, then we can begin to resolve this problem that we have with terrorism. source is the holy bible to understand. we can learn a lesson as to what happened to israel. they put their trust in their military might and oppression. we did it back in 1991 and 10 years later, we had 9/11 take place. .od control the storms host: have we done enough to understand the causes of the attacks? guest: do we understand all of the causes? this is an area of a tremendous amount of discussion.

as one of your previous callers had pointed out, is this driven by poverty, is it driven by political expression? the evidence on that is pretty weak. modern democracies can suffer from terrorism as much as developing countries. when you asked earlier about the difference between now and 50 years ago, in the 1970's, we were dealing with 50 to 60 terrorist bombings a year. fortunately we have not seen anything like that since 9/11. or is it driven by ideology? is it driven by religion? there are a lot of different .heories about motives

that is an interesting area of study. we do want to understand it. at the same time, the fact is we have to provide for the common defense of this country and deal with the threats, regardless of motive. i am still very much in favor when terrorist attacks occur in this country, that we treat these as crimes and that motive is not an issue here. murder is murder and if you pretend to be an army or pretend that god is whispering in your ear, it makes no difference. we are dealing with criminal activity. in these large-scale terrorist enterprises, we are dealing with it on a global scale. i am somewhat bemused by the fact, and i understand the the call and

democrat and independent. i don't see terrorism as a partisan issue and i hope i am not being naive when i look back to that moment right after 9/11 democrat,nation, ,epublican, independent religions right across the board , we looked at 9/11 and we mourned the losses and we resolved to prevent this kind of thing from taking place. unfortunately, that kind of considerably as everything has become a partisan issue. host: when did it start? what are the main causes of that erosion? guest: there was a long-term

trend that precedes 9/11 toward partisanship in this country and i am not saying that different political philosophies and political parties are not going to contest ground on the basis of how they think the country should be organized and run. has is the way a democracy worked. what has happened in subsequent years is that terrorism increasingly has become a opportunityue, an for a party to attack the other occurs, anan event opportunity to propel political of fear andhe basis apprehension which can be a very

powerful political tool and that is unfortunate. at the end of the day, it is not going to be how many concrete bollards we can erect around government buildings and how many jersey barriers we can put up to protect bike paths and how many surveillance programs and big data programs and artificial intelligence programs we can facilitate intelligence collection and analysis. in the final analysis, it is going to be our own courage, our own self-reliance, our own sense of community, our own unity as americans that is going to againstully defend us the terror and division that terrorists are trying to create. host: viewers on their screen

seeing vice president mike pence just laid a wreath at the memorial at the pentagon as part of the commemoration ceremony taking place. you can watch that live on c-span3. in commemoration ceremonies shanksville, pennsylvania couple minutes from getting started. pennsylvaniae in is also featured on the front page of today's metro newspaper in philadelphia, voices of heroes is the headline. president trump and others will visit shanksville to honor the crew and passengers of united any three -- of united 93. time for just one or two more calls. texas,in lagrange, republican. caller: good morning. affect like to know what do you think that allowing dual citizenship has on a potential terrorist attack. guest: i did not quite

understand that. could you repeat that? caller: what effect allowing onl citizenship has effects potential terrorist attacks. what kind ofng citizenship? host: dual citizenship. guest: i am sorry, i did not hear you correctly. i don't know. view, not theal product of analysis. i am always somewhat skeptical of dual citizenship. i think you can only be loyal to therefore i am not a fan of dual citizenship. if people come here as immigrants, they have an opportunity to be u.s. citizens and that should be the goal and

that means severing ties as my grandparents did on both sides of my family, from whatever country they came from. to move tokably were another country and swear allegiance to that country, i cannot imagine maintaining my citizenship in the united states at the same time. that is a personal view. what affect dual citizenship has had on terrorism, i am not entirely sure. few who have been arrested for carrying out or plotting terrorist attacks in this country have had dual citizenship. about half of them are u.s. areign citizens and others

-- radicalized here. american jihadists are made in the usa. host: brian jenkins is a senior adviser at the rand corporation, an expert on terrorism there, joining us from los angeles. announcer: coming up wednesday morning, kimberly leonard discusses continuing efforts by washington and the white houses to undo provisions of the affordable care act. to nick troyano on efforts help elect independent

candidates. talking about national suicide prevention week and suicideion related to prevention. be sure to watch "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. wednesday morning. bob woodward joins us monday september 17 at 7:00 a.m. eastern to talk about his new book, "fear: trump in the white house." ken starr joins us tuesday, 18, at 8:30 a.m. discuss his book memoir of the clinton investigation. and a discussion of the 2008 financial crisis wednesday at 10:00 a.m., with tim geithner and hank paulson. u.s. house returns for general speeches and at 2:00 p.m., members take us legislative business. among bills expected this week,

2019 spending, the conference report for funding energy and legislativems, the branch, military construction programs. returnsp.m., the senate for work on the next i.r.s. commissioner. a discussion of sexual harassment in the workplace and a conversation justice ruth bader ginsburg george washington university law school. and sunday on "q&a," "an uncommon man." >> hoover said when all is said is alle, accomplishment that matters. it's a rather unsentimental -- the sort of thing you would expect an engineer to say and tot's one of the keys

understanding his life, his success in everything but the presidency. announcer: sunday night at 8:00 c-span's "q&a". hayden,r: now, michael and michael rogers talk about presidents and the intelligence community at an event put together by george mason university. minutes. >> we'll get started in just a you.e, thank