china, he was eventually called back to run the cia. something he did not want to do because he thought coming to be honest, running the cia was a political career killer. it and i think we should take him at his word that he rim him or his father saying, if the president of the united states asks you to do something for your country, the answer is yes. really embodies his entire sense of obligation. at to necessarily be president in his own right but to hold the presidency up as a charge to hand off to the next person. announcer: jeffrey engel, director of southern methodist university center for presidential history, discusses his book "when the world seemed new, president george h.w. bush and the end of the cold war." sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. monday, larry hogan debated his democratic

challenger, then jealous, and their only scheduled debate. topics included the state economy, education, and health care. this hour-long debate is courtesy of maryland public television. the 2018 maryland gubernatorial debate. recorded at the studios of maryland public television and broadcast without editing in its entirety. >> welcome, everyone, to the maryland gubernatorial debate -- debate. in the studio here are they tubing leading candidates for governor. republican nominee incumbent governor larry hogan and the .emocratic nominee, ben jealous today's debate is being produced life to take coming meaning you will see in its entirety with no edits or stoppages. he will get first to the opening statements each candidate will have 90 seconds. first to speak is mr. jealous. mr. jealous: thank you.

i am ben jealous. i am the former national president of the naacp. a dad to two kids. the son of two maryland public school teachers whose marriage was against the law 52 years ago because she is black, he is white. i am running for governor because i have a vision. a vision that comes out of my experience, building small businesses and to big businesses across our state and across our country. a vision and a plan, a plan to make sure that we finally fully fund our schools, keep the broken -- deep the broken comp -- promise on the casino money to make sure teachers are respected and paid better. make sure we get health care costs under control. one is driven no to poverty for using their health care. our economyo get going again. and do what i do everyday day, building more inclusive, robust

21st century economy. folks will tell you the things i want to do are hard. they are right. nothing worth doing is easy. i was named person of the year by the baltimore sun, because in one year, i led the success to abolish the delph -- the death penalty. while helping pass marriage equality. i pull people together to get big things done. that is why i have been endorsed by the teachers and business and across the state. i hope to earn your vote too. moderator: mr. hogan. gov. hogan: first of all, i want to thank the sponsors of tonight's event. i want to especially thank all of you for watching at home. four years ago, marilyn was way off track and heading in the wrong direction for we had lost 8000 businesses and 100,000 jobs after 43 consecutive tack -- tax hikes. i decided to step up and try to do something about that. i promised to put maryland on a

new to we have done exactly what we said we would do. tolls, and taxes, fees for years in a row by $1.2 billion. money back into the pockets of hard-working marylanders, retirees, and small businesses, and back into our growing economy. we now have more businesses open and more people working in our state than ever before. the economy is turning around and we are investing more record funding and education, record funding in transportation, and in cleaning up in protecting the chesapeake bay. we have made tremendous progress. but there is still a lot more hard work to be done. that is white and i come i'm asking for your vote so we can keep making progress, keep moving forward, and continued changing maryland for the better. you.ator: gentlemen, thank let's introduce the four reporters who will be asking the questions tonight from the washington post. joining us is ovi to wiggins. pamela wood from -- from the

baltimore sun. the hagerstown maryland -- herald mail, tamala baker. from wnd t cells. , ryan eldridge. i would like to thank those four organizations for participating. also, our other partners wyprding wbal baltimore, radio, and the league of women voters. here's how the questions will work. each candidate will respond to each question. each question will alternate the orders. site --have time for for 62nd rebuttals. while this debate began in an unusual manner, it was negotiated directly between the campaigns in a bilateral agreement. now that we are on the air, this is a production of maryland public television and the reporters and i are under no restrictions whatsoever in terms of the questions that can be asked. let's go first to ovi do from the post. reporter: governor hogan,

although the economy has rebounded and wage growth remains stagnant in maryland, many ebola not seen their paychecks grow. the would you do to grow private sector and raise wages? gov. hogan: wages are up in maryland all across the board. up 9%. you are not right on the facts there. wages have grown at every level. we got more people hired glenn any other time in the past 15 years. we have continued have more people working at higher salaries than we will continue. the only way to do it is to continue to grow our economy and get small businesses to grow and hire more people. we are proud of the record we have got it with had one of the best economic turnarounds in america.

mr. jealous: actually, i think ms. wiggins is right. gov. hogan: i don't think so. mr. jealous: we have the lowest job growth, low's income growth in the region. gov. hogan: that's not true. mr. jealous: if we have the job growth of virginia, we would have 40,000 more jobs right now. here's the punchline. virginia's job growth is lower than the national average. states with a positive outlook on the economy for this country in the next year, we are not one of them. , i'vemall business person put together a plan to make sure that we put our government on the side of small business people. that we back the states entrepreneurs. we take the office of tech transfer out of the department of commerce and put in the government -- governor's office. involved intively building more inclusive, robust economy every day. that sounded really

good but not a single word you said was true. we went from losing 100,000 jobs to gaining 100,000 jobs. we had some of the fastest job growth and america. we went from last place in the toute -- mid-atlantic region first place. we brought the unemployment rate down to 4.2. and you keep talking about these things, i don't know where you get these talking points from, but they are absolutely false. i am a lifelong small businessman. i spent my entire life in maryland running a small business. it's the reason i ran for governor because i was so frustrated seeing what was happening. the state i love was way off track. we have more businesses open in maryland than ever before in history. we are number one in america in startups. we created more jobs in the first year and they had done for 15 years committed they had not met that mark. so i don't know where you get the stats, how you play with the numbers, but my four-year record is clear. we have led the nation in

increased jobs, increased wages, and you just cannot keep making up these stories. moderator: this defect -- 60 seconds, mr. jealous. mr. jealous: governor, please. you can go to my website and all the facts are there. and my plans are there. when i tell people i will do something, i make a plan there, it is transparent. my staff doesn't have to walk things back. we don't have a going to pay for. governor, the people of the state deserve to have a plan to move forward. you don't have a plan. gov. hogan: we have moved forward in one of the fastest rates of america. is to double the state budget your only plan and increase taxes by 100%, and you're not honest enough to tell people each person in maryland will have their taxes go up 12%. --er the o'malley it nearly crushed our economy and cost us 8000 businesses and 100,000 jobs. i cannot imagine what would happen under a plan like yours, but it's not going to be freely

-- friendly to business. whatealous: you know convinced me to advocate to bring medicare for all to our state? i tried to move a factory here to sell baltimore from northern canada, and the deal fell apart because the cost of health care in our health exchange cap -- kept surging under governor hogan, up 120% in four years. that company ended up moving to toronto because they cannot come into this country because the health-care costs keep searching. that would have created 300 new jobs in south baltimore where we need them. but you have no plan. you just put in a one-year fixed. we cannot run businesses knowing what's going to happen to our health care costs year-to-year. you are choking small businesses because he will not lead on health care. i put a plan out there to bring our pharmaceutical costs down that you could have put in place four years ago, sir. moderator: we will be back to health care and i want to get all the reporters on the air. pam, this goes first to mr.

jealous. pam: five of my colleagues were murdered by a man who had a legally owned a gun. on thursday, a person with a legal gun open fire at a right -- rite aid warehouse in aberdeen, killing three coworkers. wendy, rebecca, rob, gerald, john, sunday, they are far from the only marylanders to be killed by legally owned guns. what can you do to prevent these kinds of killings in the future? mr. jealous: my heart goes out to you, and you and your colleagues are heroes. i know what it is like to work in a newsroom that has been attacked. the jackson advocate newspaper where i was an editor when i was young was attacked and i know you are into needles all the time. we have to act with courage and my heart goes out to the workers in the students. -- and the students. as soon as they asked me to meet

with them, i met with them. i'm proud to receive an f rating from the nra for standing up to them and i will continue to do that. we need to make sure that we stem the flow of illegal guns into our state. we need to close the ar-15 loophole and make sure we treat this as the public health crisis that it is. there is a public mental health crisis. we have to make sure that people get the mental health care that they need. medicare for all means mental health care for all. in our schools, we don't need more guns, we need more social workers and psychologists to work with young people who are experiencing a mental health crisis as well. thank you for your courage. gov. hogan: my heart was broken that day. this is our hometown newspaper in annapolis. i was on the scene within five minutes as they were still taking people from the building and i was thanking our police officers who responded so quickly and bravely and their tremendous cooperation and coordination between the city of annapolis, anne arundel county, state police and sheriffs department.

more lives could have been lost had it not been for the quick response. but yes, this is a tragedy that we have to continue to do everything we can about. i was down in great mills after the shooting there. i have long been a strong supporter of tougher laws to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and people with a criminal background. we have made it even tougher with legislation that's going to take place next week, seven days from today. we sponsored red flag laws and to make sure we have more of an ability to take guns away from people who are mentally ill. i also passed tough mandatory sentences on people who commit crimes with the gun. it's tragic. there is no easy answer. we have the toughest gun laws in america, but i've moved to make them even tougher and try to make sure recover some of these -- make sure we cover some of these loopholes. would it have stopped this tragedy at the annapolis capital? i'm not sure. but it would give us better, stronger ability to keep guns away from someone like this in the future.

this is a tragedy we will have to keep focused on. i put $200 million into school safety to add more school resource officers and mental health counselors to try to find and address these problems before it's too late. moderator: mr. hogan, your time is up. that's go next to tammy baker of the herald. tamela: the division of corrections spends millions every month because of a lingering shortage of staff at state prisons. correctional officers are forced to work long hours. there are safety concerns as well. the state has taken steps to try to recruit more officers but the union says it is not enough. how far are you willing to go to fill those positions? gov. hogan: you're absolutely right, we do have a staffing shortage and the entire state has been working to fix that. let's go back to the root of the problem. under the previous administration, gangs and criminals were running the entire state prison system. we said we would come in and clean up the entire operation. it resulted in 139 indictments.

of correctional officers, other people working in the correctional facilities and the people they were coordinating with in the private sector. we decided we needed to make sure we had background checks and lie detectors and make sure we were not hiring more criminals into the system, and that's what we have done. it made it more difficult to fill these positions. we need to pay these positions better. what we have done to help recruit, we put signing bonuses, we would take care of their student debt up to $20,000 and we have a major marketing campaign to address them. we have been hiring more people. under my opponents plan, the only place he wants to cut, he wants to fire thousands of public safety officers and put thousands of dangerous criminals out on the streets. mr. jealous: first of all, governor, it's not the only place i want to cut. i have a bigger tax cut proposal on the table then you have ever put forward. that is to cut our sales tax. i have put a plan on the table based on my work, working with

bipartisan leaders across the state to shrink prison systems in a way that is smart and say -- and safe, takes more killers off the street and stocks loaded spending on bloated a criminal justice system. i sent you want to bring our incarceration rate in line with states like new jersey where violent crime is down as opposed to being up here on your watch, sir. we can be safer, we can be smarter, but we have to do it working with the officers. when i rolled out the criminal justice strategy for the naacp, i had every civil rights leader you might expect. i had noted republican leaders and president of the largest correctional officers union in the country standing right next to me. we all want to be safer. we want to spend more in public higher education and not mass incarceration. even the officers want the kids to have a better deal when they go to public universities. that is at the heart of my plan. shrinking our prison system in a way that is safer, saving money for public colleges and

universities so that we also in gush and the massive -- and that we also end the massive student debt crisis. gov. hogan: mr. jealous might not be what aware of what is happening in massachusetts. i've been praised by all most single -- every single elected democrat in maryland. we reduced our prison population more than the other 49 states. we are number one in america in reducing prison population. we reduced it by 9%. we have gotten rid of all the people that were simple possession, misdemeanors and other things. he now wants to take another 30% of the violent criminals, these are murderers and rapists and repeat violent offenders, and put them back onto the streets. it just is absolutely -- some of your proposals are reckless, but this one is downright dangerous. it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. if we were to let -- fire thousands of public safety officers and put thousands of violent criminals on the street, that's going to help you lower

the crime situation? that just doesn't make sense. mr. jealous: your party plays by the same playbook. we see it on the hateful ad you have been running for months, you try to scare people because you don't have a plan. gov. hogan: i just said our plan was recognized as the best in america. mr. jealous: that was a plan that was passed because you had to sign because it had a super majority. gov. hogan: that is not true. mr. jealous: as has happened so many times, earlier you were talking about guns and you seem to have forgotten the fact that you mocked the idea of bump stocks and you said -- gov. hogan: that is not true. i said that immediately after the shooting in las vegas. you are making that up. mr. jealous: we can replay the tape on that one. on this issue, i take umbrage. i've had two family members shot in maryland, one in howard county and one in prince george's county. on your watch, murders are up 42%, revised down to 34% in 23 counties outside baltimore.

more than 50% when you include baltimore city. i have worked with governors, the mayor of york city as president of the naacp to put forward strategies that make us safer and make our prison system smaller. for you to suggest that i would allow violent criminals out early is straight out of the old playbook from willie horton to donald trump. gov. hogan: that's just nonsense. it's right on your website your -- your website. you want to reduce the prison population by 30%. you have already reduced it at any higher state in any -- in the country. the major cut is the only cut in spending. -- $660 to cut 600 million out of public safety. that would fire 2000 3005 at safety of. that's not going to help violent crime. let's talk about how what we been doing might help. baltimore city, we had the worst violence breakout in 47 years 89 days after i was governor. i brought in the national guard, 4000 members of the guard, 1000 police officers, and i been

there ever since, trying to backup the city. we sent in 500 state and federal law-enforcement officers a couple of months ago and served 14,000 warrants, arrested 500 people and took 260 of the most violent repeat offenders off the streets. we then passed a comprehensive crime bill through the legislature which they supported our plan, that while we have already lowered sentences for smaller offenses, on these repeat violent offenders and those people shooting people on the streets of baltimore and elsewhere, they need to do time, and now they will come starting in october, one week from today. jeff: last word on this, mr. jealous. mr. jealous: absolutely. your party -- i have given you a lot of respect. i simply ask for the same. from willie horton to donald trump, party placed by the same playbook every july any scare -- by the same playbook you lie and you scare people. i have not said anywhere that i would do what you are suggesting. what i have said is i would do what i worked with governors to

have more words than you, republican governors that have more courage than you, to bring their prison systems in line with states like new jersey where violent crime has been falling. gov. hogan: it doesn't matter how many times you say, it's not going to be true. mr. jealous: that is the play book that you are playing by. you have been subjected to two months of your ads trying to scare them. mr. jealous: they are not -- gov. hogan: they are not my ads. i think they are completely factual. mr. jealous: when it is my time, do i get to speak? moderator: next question, ryan eldredge will go first to mr. jealous. ryan: the question is, the opioid epidemic puts a strain on law enforcement, medical personnel, and our labor force, in addition to other things. we cannot deny that we need ethics. -- we need a fix. we need fixes. i want to know where the state can get the money to pay for treatment options and facilities that are sorely needed in the and across maryland.

gov. hogan: play the tape on this. -- mr. jealous: my opponent ran for office saying this was an emergency. he said he would declare a state of emergency. he didn't do it for two years, while thousands of our neighbors died. death from opioids on his watch -- under his watch are up 160%. the leaders of our state have a plan to fund crisis response centers. 10 of them across the state. he only funded one in baltimore and that when has been underfunded. where they are rationing the life-saving drug naloxone and people are dying, because the doctors say we just don't have enough. he now says he has gotten some money from the federal government. it's great, but what should we have done in the meantime? this is why we have a rainy day fund. if this were a natural disaster, we would have used it right

away. then you sue the pharmaceutical company. and win back the funds. you hold them responsible. they are not finding my campaign like they are fighting it. -- funding his campaign. i have no problem taking on these companies and suing them and making them pay for the pain and the havoc they have reached in our state. -- wreaked in our state. gov. hogan: when i was running for governor, four years ago, as i traveled around the state, i went to every single community, and everywhere i went, i said what is the number one problem facing your community? they said heroin and opioids. it surprised me, quite rightly. -- frankly. we promised, when i was elected, i promised we would focus on this problem because it had not been focused on before. people were sweeping it under the rug. immediately after becoming governor, i pointed the lieutenant governor to chair the heroine an opioid emergency task force which went around the state and got input from people all across the state. we then implemented all 36 recommendations and pass -- past things through the legislation ended the things we could do through executive

order. i became the first governor in america to declare state of emergency on this crisis because we were losing more people than shooting and traffic totality's -- fatalities added together. i promised to do something about it. the first one to turn it into a state of emergency. we invested $600 million in state money. we have gone added from every -- gone after from every direction, from prevention to treatment to interdiction and stopping the dealing of the drugs. it is the terrible crisis. we are one of the only states to have met the curve downward on prescription opioids, alan -- on heroine. we have this new synthetic video fentanyl that is 50 times stronger and more deadly. we are now fighting that one as well. for you to try to use the deaths of these 2000 marylanders that died, this is tearing apart families and communities from one end of the country to another. i never go talk in washington because i don't think they ever get anything done. but they asked me to come down and speak before a senate committee because i am a nationally recognized expert on the subject.

i went down and testified in the -- and the senate has now passed the bill. we desperately federal funding to assist but it's going to take the state and the feds and local government all working together. mr. jealous: i have a cousin who is in rehab for heroin right now. gov. hogan: i have a cousin who died of a heroin overdose. mr. jealous: this is about real families. i have sat with 13-year-old girls in the 12 months before, pastors in baltimore city who fear that their high school reunion will have to be at the cemetery because they burned -- buried so many classmates. for you to suggest this is about politics, this is about lives. they did a study, when the democrats gave you a plan, and you refused to champion it, we needed those 10 crisis response centers across our state this entire time, and you have not led. i get that you are an expert, but we needed you to use that expertise on day one. you waited until day 730 to

declare a state of emergency while our neighbors be don't -- it died. leadership. it is not respectable. don't tell me this is politics. this is about people and lives. gov. hogan: we were the first day in america to declare a state of emergency. i know it is about lives. i'm the one that brought this issue to the forefront. we are now nationally recognized as the leader in america on this subject. yes, people are still dying. and it is tragic. i lost my first cousin to a heroin overdose myself. but to get up here and talk about, i responsible for the deaths of these people. mr. jealous: you waited two years. mr. jealous: i was the first -- gov. hogan: i was the first one in america. mr. jealous: you said day one, and it was two years. gov. hogan: it's not true, we've done a lot. we have made great prospects on certain aspects of it. in february, i started the heroine and opioids emergency task force. mr. jealous: you should have backed up the democrats. gov. hogan: that is not true. let me address the other made up

story about the 10 centers. we've doubled the number of treatment beds. we have spent more money. the center and baltimore city, we increased from $2 million into $5 million. it was the state legislature, your friends, the democrats in the legislature that took out the wording for those 10 centers. not me. i had nothing to do with that. mr. jealous: the governor controls the budget. gov. hogan: that's not true. we make suggestions to the legislature moves the money around. moderator: next question. pam would goes first to mr. hogan. pam: the baltimore region lacks a comprehensive mass transit system and many believe this holds back the city and its residents from economic opportunities. please describe what your vision is of the importance of mass transit and please explain your decision to cancel the red line project. gov. hogan: sure. i have invested more in transit than any other governor in history of the state. we just put up a proposal that we got virginia and d.c. on board to save metro.

we are moving forward on the $5.6 billion purple line project. my plan is balanced. we have $15 billion in transportation improvements. we put three dollars into -- $3 billion into baltimore city. we revamped the entire transit system in the city over just recognized and won a national award as the best revamp of the transit system. but the red line is something i know your newspaper and others have criticized this four. -- in this for. the washington post editorial board said it never made any economic or transportation sense whatsoever, which is why governor o'malley didn't do it for eight years. we've done every thing possible moving forward on the top priority projects in every single jurisdiction across the state. we put more money into transit and roads because traffic congestion and getting people to work is critically important and we will continue to do so. mr. jealous: if you check larry hogan's approach to transit and turn it on its head, you get pretty close to mine. he wants us to have big, fancy privatized lanes for rich people that you can pay $45 at peak

times to try to get on their like they do down in virginia. what he doesn't want to do is invest more in metro, make it run more often and longer and extent the lines out. -- extended the lines out. for the baltimore region, he killed the red line. we had $900 million, it worked for 10 years and people of the region to get that going, and you took it away, sir. you took it from the city in the county. i was with people in the chamber in anne arundel county and they are upset over it. you get on the bus and baltimore -- in baltimore city, i don't know the last time you were there, and you ask folks and say, five years ago, how many buses did you take? one. how many do you take now? 2. how many age do it many time did you take then? 4. their time with their children gets eaten up because it's double their time. an eight-year-old boy in a housing project told me he had seen too many dead men. he said, fixed the bus system because this one is broken. my mom and i used to have to

two blocks to the bus station and i we have to walk six. the only people who profit are the criminals who prey on us in the next four blocks. a reminder that public transportation is often a prerequisite to the public safety. gov. hogan: again, we put $3 billion into transportation in baltimore city. we revamped the entire bus system. it is working much better for most people in the red line never made any sense to anyone. most people in the state were totally opposed to it. mr. jealous: i would invite you to ride the bus in baltimore city. just casually walk through and ask people. it's quite amazing. you say this about education and transportation. if we have record funding, i -- why don't we have record results? gov. hogan: we do have record funding that we will get that -- get in that in the next question. mr. jealous: the next question -- moderator: the next question goes first to mr. jealous. ovetta: both you and the governor has said one way or another that where a child lives should not determine their destiny. despite that, maryland has one

of the sharpest achievement gaps in the country. statistics show that 45% of students who don't receive free and reduced meals are proficient, for example, in algebra one. meanwhile, only 13% of students who come from poor families are proficient in the subject. what three concrete actions would you take to close the achievement gap, and please be specific. mr. jealous: absolutely. thank you for that question. over the last four years, our schools have fallen in the national rankings. every year governor hogan has been in office, they have fallen from first to six. what has he done, toured the state with betsy devos and sent millions of dollars of private schools in the form of vouchers while cutting funds for our schools, almost $100 million. now we are seeing the fruit of that. the majority of children in our state are not proficient in reading or writing or math. the best way to close the achievement gap is to make sure

there is a high quality teacher in every classroom. that's why i have proposed for us to increase teacher pay 29% over seven years, so we can recruit and retain the best teachers in the country. we also have to make sure that every child shows up to kindergarten ready to learn. that's why we need to have universal full day pre-k. i propose that and to pay for it by legalizing cannabis for adult use. finally, we have to makes her that every child comes out of our schools ready for a career, not just for college. we will keep more in a safe and -- in as they can see how school adds up. when i'm governor, we will make sure we put more vocational education into our high school and give every child a path to a rewarding job, not just to college, because many decide they won't ever get there in a dropout. -- and they drop out early. gov. hogan: i believe strongly that every single child in our state deserves access to a world-class education,

regardless of what neighborhood they happen to grow up in. that's what we've been focused on for four years. that is why we put $20 billion in the k-12 education. no governor in the history of the state has ever invested more. we went over the formulas and put more money in spite of finding -- fighting school population. we think we need to reinvest in our kids. i've also proposed a lot locks to make sure all the casino revenues go directly, $4.4 billion more goes into the schools. mr. jealous wants to take 100% of that casino money and he says he will give teachers a 29% raise. that would eat up the whole $4.4 billion. i think we do need to pay our teachers better. he has nothing to do with teacher salaries. they don't work for the governor. these are local employees that work for the local school systems. and he has no ability to deliver on his promise whatsoever. we will continue to fund education and make improvements. we just opened five schools in baltimore city within the past

two weeks. we built 28 schools there, 124 schools across the state. we are trying to get our teachers better. we've lower-class size four years in a row. i know some people in some places, we still have to work on it, but the average is down to 20 students per classroom. let me go back to this often repeated, phony story that the baltimore sun totally says is false. martin o'malley, the previous governor, cheated on the test scores. it has already been investigated. he didn't include special needs kids or kids that had english as a second language. as a result, he inflated the numbers, much like prince george's county justice by -- just did by cheating 5000 kids and giving them higher grades than a should have gotten. i talked about this during the last campaign. we are not telling people the truth when i first became governor, we adjusted the real numbers down to six. we didn't bring the schools down from number one to number six. they never were number one. we were just the first ones to be honest about it.

moderator: time is up. gov. hogan: number one in the nation. the governor went two minutes and 45 seconds and never told us what his plan was, because he doesn't have one. governor, if we have record funding, why don't we have record results? if we have record funding, school construction, why were the kids freezing last winter? why were they broiling this fall? why do i have to carry jugs of clean drinking water as a parent and be afraid of my child drinking out of the water fountain? why are kids crammed into trailers? now they call them learning cottages. they are still trailers. we can do much better by the schoolchildren of our state. it means, sir, you have to be willing to lead and put a plan out there. i put my plan out there. it's on my website. i've explained how we look at the teachers raises. you should look into it. i'm happy to help you on that

one, they need them now, not just when i'm governor. sir, let's be really clear here. our kids suffer when our leaders don't lead. use -- you keep sending money to private schools and private vouchers. touring around with betsy devos, and you don't put a plan on the table. she asked you for a specific plan. please tell us what your plan is. gov. hogan: great. thanks. there's a number of things i would like to dress -- like to address in that. let's talk about betsy devos. she's the secretary of education came out to school in montgomery county to read books to kids. i sat there in a first grade class and read books to kids. i've been with the last three education secretaries, two of them under president obama and one under president trump. we were not going to tell her she cannot come into the state and read to kids. that is as far as the connection goes. the voucher program was not my idea. it was mike bush's idea. he worked it out with the teachers union which passed him was unanimously by democratic legislators. i had a proposal that would give tax incentives to any individual

or donation that donates to public or private school. the legislature shot that down and switched it to scholarship programs for needy kids. i signed the bill, but it was not my bill. it is not the hogan-devos voucher program. it is the mike bush-devos bill. moderator: how to close the achievement gap for kids in schools -- what is your plan, sir? if yougan: i don't know know how the education system works in maryland. i know you just moved here from california. it may be different there. mr. jealous: i run the only baltimore office of a silicon valley-based firm. you think you might reach out, sir. other governors did, and i would've been happy to help you. if you are not familiar, the nation's largest civil rights organization, the naacp, is headquartered in our state. gov. hogan: i know. moderator: you get the last word

on this and then we will move on. gov. hogan: i lost track on what it is. mr. jealous: your plan. gov. hogan: here is the plan. mr. jealous: you've rated the lock box my six-year-old rates a cookie jar. you try to pretend like they had endorsed you. they endorsed me because i meet with them. gov. hogan: thousands of teachers are supporting me as well. let me talk about it. the local school systems make all those decisions about how to spend money come how to pay teachers and what to do with the funds. we provided them record funding. the comptroller and i have been pushing these local school systems for four years to take care of some of these issues and problems but they are completely accountable. i have a plan. we are now the second least accountable school system in america because of actions by the legislature, not by me. i want to be number one in accountability. we want to pay the teachers better. it is outrageous and disgraceful that after we gave them 60 me

-- $60 million in baltimore city that they were never to fix the air-conditioners and the heat. but that's not the role of the governor, it is the local school board. moderator: when you to move on. ryan eldredge has the next question. ryan: it's my understanding that a beacon quarterly trend studies suggest the eastern shore has yet to fully recover from the most recent recession. that was about a decade ago. it's alarming when you look at the numbers. somerset county still has an unemployment rate of 7.2% and others in the area are still well over 5%. pair that with a labor participation rate which is also low in the area and you have a recipe for disaster if we have another downturn. how are we preparing ourselves for another downturn in these areas and how are we working to lift these counties out of poverty? moderator: mr. hogan first. gov. hogan: thank you, ryan. as i said earlier, we have turned our economy around and employment is down to 4.2% statewide. we are not going to rest until

every single county has got to that point. we are down in somerset county. it was down from 10 to seven. every single one of our 24 jurisdictions has more jobs and less unemployment. our labor participation rate is one of the best in the country. but you are right, that's why passed the act and copy them cuts in the legislature to get on board with me. there are certain areas that were not seeing the tremendous gains in jobs that the rest of the state was. so we passed the more jobs for marylanders act to incentivize businesses to go into the areas where we need jobs the most and will waive state taxes to encourage them to come in. we've got hundreds of different companies taking advantage of this. we just passed the more jobs for marylanders. this has not even taken effect

yet. i have spent tons of time on the eastern shore. i promised when i was running for governor that i was going to not ignore any part of the state. i've been to every county on the shore multiple times. we are high-speed internet down to somerset county. we working with their economic development folks. moderator: time. mr. jealous. mr. jealous: the governor has for -- has had four years and we are dead last in the region in job growth. 49 states have a positive outlook for their economy and we are not one of them. part of what is dragging down the eastern shore is the fact that our state under his leadership has been held back. on the eastern shore, we need to make sure that every kid who wants to go to a community college can go for free and every worker who wants to retrain can retrain. governors work with democrats for some. when he to make sure that young people when they find a job can get to the job. bring on-demand technology to public transportation so that bans can go from point to point. we have to make sure that

workers are also paid fair wage for a fair days work. we got to raise the minimum wage. oftentimes in coastal communities, rents are high because you have to compete with tourists. we know that in our state, we are the most expensive state to try to rent an apartment on a minimum wage job. it takes 100% of your income. in many of the counties, the health-care industry is a major employer. if it would have done this fall with a temporary fix, and it would deftly do if trump is successful. it would devastate folks in rural areas. moderator: time is up. we have about 10 minutes left. i'm going to get onto something more serious.

gov. hogan: we've had one of the greatest economic turnarounds in america. we are leading the region. unemployment is down, employment is up. the past the promise act to allow the people that were in need to attend committee calls for free, i'm proposing expanding that to four years. as far as job training and workforce of elements, we are again a national leader. we reached the point of 2000 apprenticeships. more money, more funding, more effort in teaching skills that are needed. we could hire another 80,000 people if it gets in trade and of dispute -- get them up to speed. i've been standing up because oxygen has failed. both parties have failed. the democrats and republicans. we took it upon ourselves to try to address that directly right here in our state. just a week ago, we stopped 91% rate increases and for the first time in 20 years, our largest insurance carrier is lowering

rates and for the first time since obamacare past 10 years ago, every single insurance rate is going down in our state. last word. mr. jealous: might go down next to her after going up four years in a row. surging 100%. you have taken credit for our economy. it's like taking credit for the sun rising. let's run on your record. not on mythology. we have the lowest job growth in the region, the lowest income growth in the region. if we had the growth of virginia, we would have 40,000 more jobs right now. 40,000 more jobs. their growth is below the national average. if we had the income growth of virginia, the average worker right now would have $8,000 more in their pocket. if we had the income growth of delaware, the average worker would have $15,000 more in their pocket over your time in office, sir. moderator: gentlemen, we need to move on here. next question.

gentlemen. governor. tammy baker has the next question. tammy, go ahead. tamela: i'm going to draw us back to those parts of maryland outside the population centers that ryan just alluded to. these counties have some of the state's highest unemployment rates. they have a higher percentage of children in a public school systems who do qualify for free and reduced meals. they have historically had fewer opportunities for economic development and sadly, it seemed to be posting some of the higher overdose numbers. they also have fewer resources for dealing with all of those things. over the next four years, what will your commitment be to those marylanders who live outside the washington-baltimore metropolitan area, and please be specific. mr. jealous: we will make sure that all the kids can go to a quality education and stop underfunding, budgeting her

-- our schools first, keeping the broken promise on the casino money. we will make sure that all of them have health care, that no one has to line up for free dental care at an average -- and an indicator at 6:00 in the morning by passing medicare for all. we will make sure that we grow in all regions of the state, bringing universal broadband. we will make sure we hold on to the jobs that are there as far as the health economy, by defending obamacare from republican attacks, again and again going further. and we will make sure that we bring the data into ag hubs and build ag hubs to help our farmers get ahead of the ravages of climate change, so they can anticipate what crops and livestock will flourish better as our climates change. and we will make sure that we solve the public transportation conundrum by bringing on-demand

technology to move from point to point just as we will do on the eastern shore. we need to be doing it and -- doing it western and maryland as well. jeff: your time is up. gov. hogan: four years ago, when i was running for governor, we visited every single corner of the state, and i done it ever since i became governor. i've been to all jurisdictions. i can take the people in western maryland and the people on the shore really felt for eight years that they were being completely ignored and neglected and forgotten. i promise that we would just turn that around completely and no longer were those areas of the state going to be left out. that's why i have focused as much time there as i have anywhere else in the state. i've been to western maryland or -- more times than any governor in history of the state. i've been there more than the governor who was from western maryland. we brought in more transportation money, more education money, and community development money.

we have the most prospects for the redevelopment of hagerstown, cumberland, frostburg. i just opened a new school in allegheny. a beautiful, brand-new school. there's no question that have issues and problems that are facing them that other areas of the state do not have. i'm very familiar with it. we will continue to invest in western maryland and the eastern shore as well. mr. jealous: i want to go back to something earlier, the governor is lying again, saying i just moved here from california. sir, lets just talk for a second. i was named person of the year by the baltimore sun five years ago because my leadership in civil rights in the state. my dad was one of the few white guys to boycott lunch counters in baltimore. my grandmother is a proud 101-year-old retired social , worker who helped train barbara mikulski. my grandfather was a probation

officer. there are po's, one to endorse me, who are still on the job today. my parents marriage was against the law in 1966. they fell in love as school teachers at harlem junior high and they had to leave. , i was sent back here every summer because this is home to me. i'm fighting for the promise of our state which my family has fought for since at least 1941. i'm proud of our history in the will fight anybody else who lies about who i am or where i am from. gov. hogan: first of all, i have tremendous respect for your life story and what your parents had to go through. i wasn't trying to in any way disparage them or what you went through growing up. it's just a simple fact that you register here for the first time to vote in 2012 and that the first time you ever voted in the gubernatorial democratic primary

was for yourself. you are living in california even when you were president of the naacp in baltimore city. you tried to move to new york, and you lived in d.c. i respect your service in the naacp, but you just don't know the maryland issues because you haven't spent enough time here. i was the mayor of the year four years ago so we have something in common. ovetta: this is a very concise question. you have a minute in the oval office with president trump. what do you tell him? gov. hogan: i would tell him that he is his own worst enemy , and that he should stop tweeting, and -- that we don't need this kind of divisive rhetoric. i would tell him he needs to get his administration focused on the problems and the people out there that need help.

one thing that mr. jealous and i have in common, neither one of us endorsed or supported or voted for donald trump. he likes to bring up his name a lot, but i have stood up time and time again. i led the fight when he tried to cut they finding. that was a mistake. we got the bay funding. i stood up on daca. i was the only governor in america to withdraw troops from the border. if i had a chance to sit down with him, it's hard to put into one minute all the advice i would try to give him. it would take longer than that. jeff: we have one minute for your answer on this, and then do closing statements. mr. jealous: our governor sent troops to the border to enforce his policies before he pulled them back. our governor gave betsy devos a tour of our state and then parroted her policies and millions of dollars in private schools in the forms of private

our elders were cut from public schools as our student's performance has fallen. in her governor aids and events donald trump on issues of how we treat immigrants in our state all the time. he wouldn't even stand up to the muslim ban when a four-year-old was caught in the middle of that. i would tell donald trump that the days of the governor of maryland aiding and abetting the strategy, and everything from chesapeake bay to immigration has ended. there is no civil rights leader as governor and i suspect that might make his blood pressure rise. jeff: we will have 90 seconds for each of you to give a closing statement. first to speak as mr. jealous. mr. jealous: what do the people want, barbara jordan asked? they want an america as good as its promise. what is the promise of maryland? the promise of our state has always been that this place would be a place where it's a little easier for your children to achieve the american dream, and a little easier for you to

not worry as you approach your golden years of your life that it will turn into a nightmare. let's talk about the state promise of maryland under four years of mr. hogan. schools have fallen from first to sixth in the national rankings. health care costs have surged. he said we might get a little bit of a discount next year, but the last years, driving families into poverty and choking small businesses. our job growth is so low that we are dead last in the region in job growth and dead last in income growth. if we had the growth of virginia right now, we would have 40,000 more jobs, and their growth is below national average. we are not safer. murders are up 42% in 23 counties. when you factor in baltimore city, up more than 50%. we can do much better. i have a plan to restore the promise of our state.

to fully fund education and keep the broken promise on the casino money. make sure our teachers are respected and paid better. to pass medicare for all. to build a more inclusive and robust economy like i do as a tech investor everyday. to raise the minimum wage to $15 for our and end mass incarceration. thank you. gov. hogan: first of all, i want to thank our moderators and our sponsors tonight and i want to thank all of you at home for watching. four years ago, i stood on the steps of our historic state house in annapolis and as i was giving my inaugural address, i said, let's not have the divisiveness that has affected our nation, divide our state. i said that i want to try to bring people together, to usher in a new era of bipartisanship. i said i wanted to seek that middle ground where we can all stand together.

i think people today are fed up with divisive rhetoric and extreme politics. i think we are setting an example for the nation about what can be accomplished when you put aside the party politics and the divisiveness. i think we're getting things done. maryland is in a much better place than it was four years ago by any standard whatsoever. we are making a lot of progress, but there is still much more work to be done. which is why tonight i'm asking for your support so that we can continue to make progress, continue to move maryland forward, and continue changing maryland for the better. thank you. >> early voting starts one month from tomorrow. you can see a recap on the websites of our partners on the washington post, the baltimore sun, youtube, and pretty much everywhere else. thanks to the panel and thanks

to the candidates. thank you for watching. for all of us at berlin public television, have a good night. [captioning made possible by constellation energy group] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> with a control of congress in question, see the competition for yourself on c-span. watch the debates from senate races. make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. c-span's washington journal is live everyday with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, feminist majority foundation president, eleanor, discusses brett kavanaugh's nomination. the deputyalks about attorney general, rob rosenstein -- rob rosenstein -- rod

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