sensible of judicial review, that is what he is known for. but the fact is, john marshall was a soldier in the -- he was a judge advocate, general of the army, served at valley forge. he was a leader in the virginia house of delegates. the indispensable man and gratification debates, because he was the guy who really persuaded the majority of virginian delegates to go along with ratifying the constitution. without virginia, there would not have been a constitution. he was an important diplomat in negotiations with friends, and he was secretary of state. all of the contributions he has made as a founding father kind of get forgotten because the significance of his one decision in that case. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. the director of the center

for gulf affairs, former deputy assistant secretary of state. before we it to the future of u.s. saudi relations, i want your thoughts on the latest on the investigation into the disappearance of jamal khashoggi . it is reported to that the saudi's suspected the alleged killing has ties to security services in that country. your thoughts this morning as this investigation continues? seeing kind of a steady drip of new information about what happened, what happened in the room, who the individuals were. as you said, the press is reporting this morning based on information they got from the turks, as well as their own investigation, that many of the individuals involved had some kind of a link directly to

mohammad bin salman, which will make the issue challenging to come up with an explanation that does not involve the crown prince directly. host: the president tweeting out yesterday that he spoke with the crown prince, who totally denied any knowledge of what took place. he was with mike pompeo during that call. he toldident said that me he already started and will rapidly expand a full and complete investigation into the matter. answers will be forthcoming, the president tweeted yesterday. guest: one hopes. of course, the comments and the president's reaction were greeted with a great deal of skepticism in washington, here in capitol hill, elsewhere around town. i think that the burden is really on the saudis to come up with a logical explanation of what exactly happened.

so far, i don't think we are there. host: here is a picture from usa today this morning of mike pompeo meeting with the crown prince. do you think it was a mistake for him to take that meeting? guest: when the president for -- first said he was sending the secretary out, he said very explicitly that he was going to meet with the king. i think that was the right move. you have to get to the king, the ultimate decision-maker in saudi arabia to explain exactly what the importance of this issue is for the united states and for the u.s. saudi relationship. the meeting with the crown prince, frankly, i don't think anyone would be surprised that he would deny his involvement. mark warnerr yesterday at georgetown university was asked about president trump's reaction to jamal khashoggi's disappearance and his statements about what the crown prince told him. here is mark warner from

yesterday. [video clip] >> the notion that this is some rogue element, this is not some back alley in istanbul, this is inside the freaking saudi consulate. with agents of the saudi embassy. in a government like that, that the higher-ups did not know, and this was an interrogation that went awry -- my concern is, what trump has said, clearly, the saudis are our ally, but somehow , because there is some economic military sales here, you know, we are in uncharted territory. there has never been, in my lifetime, and i am 63 years old, and american president that has not stood up for a free press, that has not stood up to say we value human rights.

there has never been a democrat or republican willing to turn a blind eye, no matter how outrageous the actions are. one of the things that i think that donald trump does not understand is that this is not all theater. in many ways, maybe in america we are used to his antics, but in so many places around the world, the words of an american president carry an enormous amount of meaning. host: uncharted territory. can you lay out in your mind what the u.s. options are going forward, and where you think we should go here? guest: it is a good question. of course, the administration, which is looking not only at the history of the relationship that senator warner referred to, but also at their own goals and objectives in the region on violent extremism, on iran, the

israeli-palestinian account, looking at saudi arabia as the key partner in the region will help them achieve all of those goals are desperate to get beyond this story and to get back to a more stable relationship with the saudis. so the president has already said he doesn't want to consider canceling arms sales. beyond that, there are not very many things. the congress has already the congress has already triggered the global act, which would apply sanctions against any individuals who are involved , who are seen to be as implicated in this particular attack. but that is against individuals. it could go all the way of -- all the way up, depending on how the investigation goes at it could go to the most senior levels, but it is still against individuals.

self, myhe kingdom it understanding, and we heard senator warner and many people heard senator graham yesterday speaking very aggressively about the need to apply sanctions on saudi arabia. thenderstanding is that anger on the hill is palpable. they could probably vote against arms sales to saudi arabia. whether that would overcome a presidential veto or not is dubious. beyond that, in terms of the government, as long as the president doesn't want to pursue this, does not want to push this, the options are limited. on the other hand, perhaps even more significant in terms of saudi arabia, is where the business community is. of course, the saudis were planning their big investment conference in saudi arabia next week, what they call davos in the desert. we have seen senior u.s. and international business figures, jamie dimon, bill ford, david

petraeus, all backing out in participation from that. if the business community decides they don't want to participate, that they don't want their brand associated with saudi arabia, that will be a huge blow to their economic ambitions. host: gerald feierstein with us taking your calls, talking about u.s.-saudi relations, disappearance of journalist jamal khashoggi. if you want to join the conversation, give us a call. republicans, (202) 748-8000. democrats, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you mentioned one of the options is to suspend arms sales. why do we sell so many are to saudi arabia? guest: the united states and saudi arabia have had a close arms and security relationship going back to the immediate

post-world war ii era. the united states has basically helped saudi arabia build its entire military and security infrastructure. it is heavily dependent on u.s. arms, u.s. security, architecture. and this has been a tradition that has gone back, because we recognize that the u.s. and saudi arabia share important objectives, not only in the region but globally. we share a desire to ensure a stable energy market for the world. we share a commitment to security, regional security, global security. we have worked together on these issues for decades. look at afghanistan in the 1980's, the iraqi invasion of kuwait in 1991. the united states and saudi arabia have worked closely together for all of those years on security. and a lot of it is based on this

military relationship and the infrastructure we built. host: i recall you tweeting recently that while we share objectives, no one should think that we often share valleys with -- values with saudi arabia. how has that complicated that relationship over the years? guest: it has created stresses and strains from time to time, no question. we and the saudis obviously do not have the same view on basic principles of the relationship between the state and the citizen, between the fundamental values of freedom of press, freedom of religion. these are not ideas or concepts that saudi arabia shares with us. on the other hand, the saudi's s sometimes find u.s. positions on some of the critical and regional and global policy to be uncomfortable for them. we have had these stresses and strains from time to time, but the fact that we share so many

important interests around the world has always allowed us to paper over those differences. host: do we need them more or do they need us more? guest: i don't think it is in us -- i do not think it is an us or them kind of question. both parties, both governments, have benefited from this relationship over the past 70 years. host: gerald feierstein taking your questions. we start in bowie, maryland. republican. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. the one thing i want to say is it it's so amazing how most of the senators kind of jump up and down. i don't mean to make this trivial. a man is dead here. it is a bad thing. but clearly, the saudi arabians have been slaughtering yemenis for who knows how long. no one has said anything. turkey has been locking up dissidents for so long and no one has said anything.

all of a sudden one journalist brutalssing at in a manner, whatever happened. and now it is as if the saudis are the worst thing since heaven knows when. happenedsaying what is -- i am not saying that what is happening is right, whatever may have happened, until we know, but we do with these kinds of countries all over the world, all the time. why is this any different? previous administrations have done that. the dreaded red line. this is a redline for me, and they they gassed an entire city twice, and nobody did anything or said anything about it. i can guarantee that those defense contract will not be canceled. not in the previous administration, this administration, and future administrations because of the importance of saudi arabia. guest: he makes a fair point and

others have made a similar point. what i would say is, in fact, if it were only an issue of jamal khashoggi, we probably would not be seeing the reaction we are seeing. but very much as the caller said, what i think the members of congress are responding to, with the general public is responding to, it is actually an accumulation of issues, including the conflict in yemen, the boycott of qatar, the kidnapping of the prime minister of lebanon, the internal human rights issues, the arrest and extortion of many prominent people in the ritz-carlton hotel a year ago. so all of these things have added to a growing sense of frustration on the hill and in

the general public. the jamal khashoggi issue has simply released it. jamal, in many ways, was the straw that broke the camels back. people gave mohammad bin salman on the benefit of the doubt. he was a reformer. he was was doing things that people thought were good for the economy and saudi arabia, some of the social liberalization, bringing women into society, so people were willing to overlook an awful lot of these things. jamal has a particular residence here in washington, london, new york, because so many people knew him personally, was very well-regarded and well-liked in many corners of this town. host: did you ever meet him? guest: i knew him. he came to middle east institute and did some roundtables with us. he was a well-known figure around town. participated in many activities, conferences, other things.

was a wilmamal person. it personalizes the issue for many people. is right.ller it is not just one thing. host: germantown, maryland. independent. caller: it is not just one thing, but just as your guest said, this is an american legal resident. they have children and i think they may be citizens. i don't know. i suggest putting into the mix talking about the international criminal court if the story from the turkish people are true, a 15-member hit squad, and the crown prince himself should be indicted. our government does not take part in that. maybe we cannot do anything that way, but there should be a giant petition going with a lot of american citizens and then that congress also promote the idea. this man is a butcher. it has to stop. i am so glad finally some in congress are talking about it. let's see if they will stand up to it.

this is president trump's lowest moment, and he has had so many low moments. we have got to act on it. thank you very much. guest: yes, as the caller said, the u.s. is not a party to the international court of justice, but we do have the global magnitsky act and congress has triggered that, which requires the administration to do its investigation, identify individuals responsible. we are to go forward on that. period -- 120-daytime where theme period administration has to respond to the congressional call. host: you were talking about the benefit of the doubt a minute ago. why do you think president trump is still giving the crown prince the benefit of the doubt, with everything coming out in the news? the leaks coming out from turkish authorities. guest: again, for the administration, it has to be a

terribly challenging moment for them. because so much of their policy is dependent on saudi arabia and because they have identified mohammad bin salman personally as the leader of saudi arabia who will help them achieve their goals and objectives in the region. he has a close relationship with jared kushner. they talk frequently, particularly about the israeli-palestinian account. even beyond that, i think they saw in mohammad bin salman the kind of new, dynamic leadership in saudi arabia that they believe would help achieve a u.s. foreign-policy goal in the region. host: can you talk about the history of president trump's relationship with saudi officials, and he trump organization's relationship, as well?

president trump tweeting amidst this discussion. for the record, i have no financial interest in saudi arabia or russia for that matter. any suggestion is fake news, of which there is plenty, he says. i think that, if you go back, there have been a number of instances where there have been references to long-standing relationships between president trump and members of the trump family with saudi arabia, with senior saudi , al waleed bins talal, who was a good friend of jamal khashoggi's. host: fox news going back through donald trump's lifetime. in 1991, he sold a yacht to a saudi prince. 2001, sold the 45th floor of the

trump world tower to the saudis. june of 2015, saying, i love the saudis, many live in the trump tower. august 2015, they buy apartments from me, they spend $40 million to $50 million. 2017, saudi lobbyists spent $270,000 just at president trump's d.c. hotel. guest: this is a relationship that goes back. the president and his family have been close to saudi business figures. mohammad bin salman came here early on in the administration and established that very close personal relationship, especially with jared kushner. host: baldwinsville, massachusetts. bob, independent. caller: good morning, gentlemen. my point for today will be, i'm sorry, but i don't see anything good about the saudis. i do not see anything good about the iraqis.

i do not see anything good about the pakistanis. i am sorry, all of these muslim countries, they are not kind people, any of them. they will butcher you in a heartbeat. they will butcher each other in a heartbeat. if you want to hang out with them, these are the people that you are hanging out with. this is the business they do and this is how they do their business. i don't understand why everyone is so surprised. they just allowed their women to drive. for goodness sake, i mean, give me a break. they have no morals when it comes to females, no morals when it comes to life. it is pretty amazing that everybody thinks that these guys are outstanding citizens that we need to do business with. we really do not. guest: he mentioned a couple of the countries that i served in over the years. i spent many years in pakistan, a long time in saudi arabia. many other muslim societies over a 40-year career. i have to say that i found people in the societies ready

much the same as everywhere in the world. you have some good people, some not so good people. basically, they are people. i have very close friends. people i respect a lot. jamal khashoggi was somebody who many of us knew very well and had a lot of regard for. a very decent and upstanding human being. so you cannot generalize about people. host: katrina in staten island, new york. independent. caller: good morning. good morning. i want to make a comment. united turkey and the states likely do have a lot going on. i don't trust the turks more than anything else. because, from what i see, as soon as they let the minister go, they started with the reporter, putting out some information. before that, they did nothing. how did they know all of what they are saying now?

ok? because something is going on with the turks. i hope the president investigates them, too. a lot. because something is going on. i don't know. that is my opinion. that is what i see. going right back to russia, iran, probably china, too. they have a lot against saudis. host: on turkey. guest: we have had our issues and challenges with turkey. some of the concerns about particularlyy, human rights violations and some other things. the president was very pleased the other day about the release of pastor brunson after a couple years in captivity. but, yes, there are issues each wing the united states and

turkey that also need to be developed. host: is this incident bringing the united states and turkey together? guest: i wouldn't say the incident itself has changed the relationship between turkey and the united states. i think that, clearly, secretary pompeii are -- secretary pompeo is on his way to meet with circus officials to discuss this issue and others as well. i would say this is an issue where the u.s., particularly american investigators, turkish investigators, can work together to try to understand a little bit about what happened. there are areas for cooperation here. but in terms of the overall relationship, i would not say it would have an effect. host: you have worked in the region a long time. were you surprised about the early and quick drip of information about the turkish investigation into what happened with jamal khashoggi? guest: pretty clearly, the turks saw an advantage in terms of getting the story out.

and probably holding the saudi'' feet to the fire. host: michael is next in eatonville, new jersey. a democrat. good morning. caller: it seems pretty obvious to me that our government takes the position that the ends justify the means. i understand a little bit about the complexities of the middle east and how we have to have alliances. the point i am trained to get is, where do we finally draw a line in the sand that we cannot cross? for instance, an author gets abducted in this country or another country or something even worse, maybe maybe somebody attacks lindsey graham for what he said. where is our country going to draw the line? is there anybody that can tell me? guest: well, you always try to balance these relationships, and these are difficult. i think somebody is always going

to be a little bit unhappy about where you put the balance. again, as we have discussed, our relationship with saudi arabia is not based on values, not like the relationship with the u.k., with western europe. it is a relationship based on a set of shared interests and principles that have held true over almost three quarters of a century, through democratic and republican administrations. >> i am welcoming you to this event to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the children's online privacy protection act. we are going to have a couple of panels and discussions to talk about the legacy and impacts of coppa and then to look at the future. before we do that, i am so pleased to invi s