delegates to ratify. important diplomat in negotiations with france, and was secretary of state. all of those other contributions he's made as a founding father has kind of been forgotten because of the significance of his one decision in marbury verse madison. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span q&a. gerald fierstein's director of -- former deputy assistant secretary of state for near eastern affairs. before we get to the future of u.s.-saudi relations, i want your thoughts on the latest on the investigation into the disappearance of jamal khashoggi , that the saudi's suspected in the alleged killing have ties to

security services in the country. your thoughts this morning? guest: of course, what we are seeing is a steady drip of new information about what happened in the room, who the individuals were. press said, i think the is reporting this morning based on information they got from the turks and their own information that many individuals involved had some kind of link directly to mohammad bin salman, which of course will make the issue more challenging for the saudi's to come up with an explanation that doesn't involve the crown prince directly. host: yet the president tweeting out yesterday that he spoke with the crown prince who totally denied any knowledge of what he was with mike pompeo during the call. he told me he has already a complete investigation

will beatter, answers forthcoming, the president tweeted yesterday. >> one hopes. certainly the comments and the president's reaction were greeted with a great deal of skepticism in washington, here in capitol hill and elsewhere around town. i think that the burden is really on the saudi's to come up with a logical explanation of what exactly happened. and so far, i don't think we are there. host: here's a picture from usa today of mike pompeo meeting with the crown prince. do you think it was a mistake for him to take that meeting? that when the president first said he was sending the secretary, he said very explicitly that he was going out to meet with the king. move.k that was the right i think that you have to get to the king, to the ultimate

decision-maker in saudi arabia exactly what the importance of this issue is for the united states or u.s.-saudi relationship. the meeting with the crown prince, frankly i don't think anyone would be surprised that he would deny his involvement. --senator mark warner said he was asked about president trump's reaction to jamal khashoggi's disappearance and his statements about what the crown prince told him. here is mark warner from yesterday. that this is some rogue element, this is not some back alley. this is inside the freaking saudi consulate. like that where the governments didn't even know, and this was all an interrogation that went awry. , and what trump has said, and clearly the

saudis for many years have been our allies. it is a very dangerous neighborhood. the idea that somehow we will, because there's some economic or military sales here, we are in uncharted territory. there has never been, in my i'm 63 years old, and american president who has not stood up for free press, who has not stood up and said we value human rights. there has never been a democrat or republican who has been willing to turn a blind eye to, no matter how outrageous the actions are. and one of the things i think donald trump doesn't understand is that this is not all theater. and that in many ways, maybe in america, maybe we are kind of used to his antics. but in so many places around the

world, the words of an american president contain an and amount of meaning. host: can you lay out in your mind what the u.s. options are, going forward, and where you think we should go here? >> it is a good question, and of course the administration, which is looking not only at the history of the relationship that senator warner referred to, but also at their own goals and objections in the region. violent extremism in iran, looking at saudi arabia as the key partner in the region who will help them achieve those goals, they are desperate to get beyond the story and get back to a more stable relationship with the saudi's. so, the president has already tod he does not want consider canceling arms sales, and beyond that, there really aren't very many things.

the congress has already triggered the global magnitsky act. host: what does that do? guest: it would apply sanctions against any individuals who are involved or seem to be implicated in this particular attack. but that is against individuals. it could go all the way up, depending on how the investigation goes. it could go to the most senior levels, but it is still against individuals. , mynst the kingdom itself understanding is we've heard senator warner. many people heard senator graham yesterday speaking very toressively about the need apply sanctions on saudi arabia. my understanding is that the anger on the hill is palpable. they could probably vote against arms sales to saudi arabia. whether that would overcome a presidential veto or not is dubious.

that, in terms of government, as long as the president does not want to pursue this or push this, the options are limited. on the other hand, and perhaps even more significant in terms of saudi arabia, is where the business community is. of course, the saudi's were planning their big investment conference in saudi arabia next week, what they call davos of the desert. we've seen the most senior u.s. and international business figures, jamie dimon, bill ford, david to trace, all backing out of participation. so if the business community decides that they don't want to participate, don't want their brand associated with saudi arabia, that is going to be a huge blow to their economic ambitions. taking your calls, talking about u.s.-saudi relations and the disappearance of journalist,

jamal khashoggi. if you want to join us, give us a call. republicans, (202) 748-8000. democrats, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you mentioned a minute ago that armsption was to suspend sales. why do we sell so many arms to saudi arabia? guest: the u.s. and saudi arabia have had a close relationship since the immediate post-world war ii era. the united states has basically help saudi arabia build its entire military and security infrastructure. it is heavily dependent on u.s. arms, u.s. security architecture . and this has been a tradition that has gone back because we recognized that the u.s. and importantia share

objectives, not only in the region, but globally. a share a desire to ensure stable energy market for the world. to global commitment and regional security. we've worked together on these issues for decades. look at afghanistan in the 1980's, look at the iraqi invasion of kuwait in 1991. the united states and saudi arabia have worked closely together for all of those years on security. a lot of it is based on this military relationship and the infrastructure we have built. host: you tweeted recently, that while we share objectives, no one should think we share values with saudi arabia. how'd do you think that has complicated the relationship? guest: it has created stresses

and strains from time to time. we obviously don't have the same view on the basic principles of the relationship between the state and citizen, between the fundamental values of freedom of press, freedom of religion. these are not ideas or concepts that saudi arabia shares with us. saudi'sther hand, sometimes find u.s. positions on some critical regional and global policies to be uncomfortable for them. so we've had these stresses and from time to time, but the fact that we share so many thertant interests around world has always allowed us to paper over those interests -- over those differences. host: do they need us more or do we need them more? guest: i don't think it is necessarily that kind of a question. i think that both governments have benefitedcsi from this relationship over the last 70 years. s -- we will start with a question in

maryland, republican. caller: thanks for taking my call. so amazing how most of the senators kind of jump up and down. and i don't mean to make this trivial, because a man is dead , but clearly the saudi arabians have been -- for heaven knows how long. turkey themselves have been locking up dissidents and people disappearing in the country and no one has said anything. all of a sudden, one journalist goes missing -- in a brutal manner, whatever happened. now, it's as if the saudi's are the worst thing since heaven knows when. i don't think that what happened is right, whatever might have happened, until we know, but don't act as if this is not par for the course in general. we deal with these kinds of countries all over the world all the time.

why is this any different? why under this administration is it different? previous administrations have done that. the dreaded red line. he gassed an entire city twice and no one said anything about it. that defenseee bills aren't going to be canceled. they wouldn't have been canceled in previous administrations, not in this one or in future ones, because of the importance of saudi arabia. fair: i think he makes a point and others have made a similar point. what i would say is that in fact, if it were only an issue of jamal khashoggi, we probably would not be seeing the reaction we are seeing. ,ery much as the caller said what i think the members of congress are referring to -- are responding to is an accumulation of issues, including the

conflict in yemen, the boycott of qatar, the kidnapping of the prime minister of lebanon, the internal human rights issues, the arrest and extortion of many theinent people in ritz-carlton hotel year ago. all of these things have added to a growing sense of frustration on the hill and in the general public. khashoggi issue has , inly released, jamal many ways was the straw that broke the camels back. people gave mohammad bin salman on the benefit of the doubt. he was a reformer and he was doing things that people thought were good in terms of the economy, social liberalization, bringing women into society.

people were willing to overlook an awful lot of these things. , i think has a particular resonance here in washington, london, and new york because so many people knew him personally and he was very well regarded and well-liked in many quarters of this town. host: did you ever meet him? guest: he came to the middle east institute and did some roundtables with us. figurea very well-known around town, participated in many activities, conferences and other things. so, jamaal was a well-known person. i think this personalizes the issue for many people. right, it isr is an accumulation of things. host: germantown, maryland, independent. caller: it is not just one thing, this is -- as an american legal resident who has a couple of children who live here, i

think they might be citizens. talking about the international , a 15 member hit squad and the crown prince himself should be indicted. parternment doesn't take in that, but there should be a giant petition going with a lot of american citizens, demanding congress also promote the idea. this man is a butcher and it has got to stop. so glad that finally some people in congress are talking about it. >this is president trump's lowet moment, and he has had so many low moments. we've got to act on it. feierstein? guest: the u.s. is not a party to the -- but we do have the magnitsky act, which requires the administration to do this

investigation to identify individuals responsible. we're going to go forward on that. there's a 120 day time frame where the administration has to respond to the congressional call. you talked about the benefit of the doubt a minute ago. why do you think president trump is giving the crown prince the benefit of the doubt, with the leaks coming out by turkish authorities? again, for the authorities, it has to be a terribly challenging moment for -- dependent on saudi arabia and because they have identified mohammad bin salman on personally as the leader who will help them achieve their goals in the region. he has a close relationship with jared kushner.

they talked frequently about the israeli/palestinian account. and i think they saw in mohammad new,alman a kind of dynamic leadership in saudi arabia that they believe will help achieve u.s. foreign-policy goals in the region. talk about the history of president trump's relationship with saudi officials and the trump organization's relationship? president trump tweeting amid this discussion. for the record, i have no financial interests in saudi arabia or russia for that matter. any suggestion is fake news. go back,k that if you there have been a number of instances where there have been references to long-standing relationships between president

trump and members of the trump family with saudi arabia, with , aior saudi business leaders patron of jamal khashoggi and a close friend, as well as with others. so there's been a lot of discussion about the possibility. going back through donald trump's lifetime, in 1991, he prince,acht to a saudi in 2001, so the 45th floor of the trump tower to the saudi's, in june 2015, saying i love the saudi's. theylive in trump tower, buy apartments from the and spent $40 million to $50 million. spent7, saudi lobbyists 200 $17,000 just in president trump's d.c. hotel. relationships a

that goes back and obviously the president and his family have been known to be close, at least to saudi business figures. cainmohammad bin salman had established a very close personal relationship, especially with jared kushner. host: pot is calling from massachusetts, independent. -- bob is calling. today will be,t i'm sorry but i don't see anything good about the saudi's, the iraqis, the pakistanis. i'm sorry, all these muslim countries, they are not kind people. they will butcher you in a heartbeat, butcher each other in a heartbeat. if you want to hang out with them, these are the people you will be hanging out with. if you want to do business with them, that is the business they do and that is how they do their business. i don't understand what everybody is so surprised about. they just allowed their women to

drive, for goodness sake. they have no morals when it comes to females, when it comes to life. so it's pretty amazing everyone thinks these guys are outstanding citizens and we need to be doing business with them. host: we've gotten your point. mentioned a couple countries i served in over the years. i spent many years in pakistan, saudi arabia, many other muslim societies over 40 years. i have to say that i found the people in those societies to be renee mutchnik sanest people everywhere in the world. good people, not good people. i have close friends, people i respect a lot. was somebody who many of us knew well and had regard for, a very decent and upstanding human being, so you can't generalize about people. host: katrina from staten island, new york, independent.

caller: i want to make a comment. -- i don't trust the turks more than anything else, because from what i see, as soon as they let with theey started reporter pulling out some information. before that, they did nothing. so how did they know now? because something is going on with the turks and i hope the president investigates them a lot, because they have something -- i don't know, that is my opinion. that is what i see. because the turks, russia, iran, probably china.

they have a lot of debt to the saudi's. guest: mr. feierstein -- host: mr. feierstein, on turkey. guest: we have had our issues on turkish policy, particularly also human rights violations and some other things. the president was pleased the other day about the release of the pastor after a couple of years in captivity. but yes, there are issues between the u.s. and turkey that also need to be developed. with this spring the united states and turkey closer together? wouldn't say the incident itself has changed the .elationship i think that clearly secretary pompeo is on his way to meet with senior turkish officials and discuss this issue and probably other issues as well.

so i would say this is an issue where u.s., and particular turkish investigators, can work together to understand a bit better about what happened. there's areas for cooperation here, but in terms of the overall relationship, i would say it wouldn't have an effect. were you surprised by the early and quick trip of information? i think pretty clearly, the turks saw an advantage in terms of getting this story out. saudi'sably holding the feet to the fire. host: michael is next in eatonville, new jersey, good morning. democrat. caller: it seemed pretty obvious to me that our government has taken the position that the ends justifies the means, and i understand a little bit about the complexities of the middle

east and how we need alliances. the point i'm trying to get is where can we draw a line in the sand that we can't cross? if an author gets inducted in this country or another, or something worse? someone attacks lindsey graham for something he said. where is our country going to draw the line? can anybody tell me? you always try to balance these relationships, and they are difficult. i think that somebody is always going to try it -- going to be unhappy about where you put the balance. discussed, our relationship with saudi arabia is not based on values, like in the u.k. or western europe. it is a relationship based on a set of shared interests and principles that have held true

over almost three quarters of a century, through democratic, republican administrations. i think this is an important i think this is an important thing. i think the relationship with saudi arabia has contributed to u.s. national security, and our foreign-policy goals and objectives -- >> i am a senior fellow at the -- the idea of the event was actually one month ago today. we gotious reasons, rushed a little bit. a topickfully, this is of perennial interest, so there is never a shortage of things to say about the process. we've heard a lot in the news security, of the press of course, not only in the last fewon