to repealing and replacing obamacare. when it comes to some of the other things. i'm simply saying that a more effective white house chief of staff might actually help trump achieve his agenda. greta brawner chris whipple, author of how the white house chief of staff to find every presidency." thank you for the conversation. my pleasure, happy holidays.

greta brawner mark holden at the table, chair of freedom partners. the president last week throwing his support behind prison reform, that is called the first step act. a lot of great things. first it is important to note, what is in this bill is based on what has worked in the states in the past 10 years. texas, south carolina, georgia have transformed their societies and criminal justice systems through common sense evidence-based practices. that is what this is based on. in texas, in the past 10 years, eight prisons saved over 4 billion tax -- over $4 billion in taxpayer money and they have a crime rate that is not been this low since the 1960's. that is what we want at the federal level. this is rehabilitation based on evidence-based

practices. the idea is that people come out of prison better than they went in. we have 45,000 people coming in and out of the federal system every year. we have 700,000 people returning to society. 95% of criminal justice system at state and federal level, are coming out. it is in our interests they are rehabilitated. they had drug therapy, they are not as traumatized, they get skills, educational courses, vocational training courses. there was a study a few years ago, 2013 by the doj and the rand corporation that showed for every dollar spent on prison education programs, it to phrase four dollars of future cost, and reduces the rate of recidivism by 50%. we want these individuals coming out of is in better so they do not hurt communities or cause us to have

more money wasted. that is one part. it is about helping people improve lives, through reforms. it has cap law enforcement safer, community safer, it has kept communities together and families together. is about second chances and having a redemptive and rehabilitative criminal justice system. not just punitive. greta brawner according to the sentencing project, inmate population in 2016, 1.3 million state prison inmates, 189,000 federal inmates and 180,000 held in private run prisons. how will this impact the current population? show we would start to scale back. states of in reducing crime rates at the same time. it is

the same practice. this program will lead to people not returning to prison, hopefully. what we have seen in addition is smarter sentencing reforms that have been added to the bill by the senate and by president trump -- he has fully endorsed. these are reforms that have worked in the states. they are important reforms. they're focused on making sentences more proportionate. it will not benefit any violent criminals. it is for low-level offenders, by and large these reforms. more importantly as the president pointed out when he announced support for reforms the senate had added to the first step act, he noted these four sentencing reforms, they were based on the clinton crime bill, which devastated communities, disproportionately devastated african-american communities. trump is trying to undo that. individuals against this bill, tom cotton and others, are trying not to support the president's agenda and they end up supporting what the clinton climbed bill -- clinton crime

bill is. i guess that is something interesting. we should probably call the bill the clinton-kcotten crime bill. if you have experience with the criminal justice system, (202)-748-8000. eastern, central part of the country, (202)-748-8001. mountain pacific, (202)-748-800 2. you are senior vice president and general counsel with coke industries. -- koch industry. why do they have an opinion about this and have sponsored this legislation?

our view is that we are focused on helping people improve their lives. remove barriers to all opportunities to all americans. we want people to have fulfilled lives and transform themselves. there are internal barriers to keep people from succeeding but there are external barriers and policy issues that keep people from having a real chance at life. the past 30 years, the criminal justice system has been a very to opportunity, particularly for those who have the least resources. you look at our criminal justice system. three different ways. moral, constitutional and fiscal. moral perspective, we have a resource based criminal justice system.

if you're wealthy, you will be ok. it is a two-tier pay to play system. everyone else's run over. if you have no resources, it can really do for life and prevent you from having opportunities -- it can ruin you for life. we want to keep everyone safer and save money. we are strong believers in fundamental liberty. the bill of rights, the fourth, fifth, sixth and eighth amendments deal with criminal justice issues. we violate them every day either with bail practices -- based on if someone can pay money, which is inconsistent with the eighth amendment. -- it is a warning. it should not be successful. that hurts the least among us, that andend being kept in prison. they can lose their families or jobs. they try to go back to their job and they lose it because they have a criminal

record. the last is the fiscal perspective. doug collins, cosponsor of the house bill that passed with all the freedom caucus voting, he says it is about money and morals. i like to say that but i also like to say reforms began when governors in red states in particular texas, they went in and looked at the mann of money they were spending on incarceration in the criminal justice system. -- the amount of money. they come for the savings but they stay for the salvation. helping people have a second chance and keeping communities safe and families together. greta brawner how much money is the koch brothers putting behind this effort? it is hard to say. we have been working on this for 12 years. we have been working on this bill since 2014. we put resources behind it based on where we think we can be effective. working at federal level, state level helping with reforms that have happened in michigan,

louisiana recently, florida. we also work in communities with groups like stand together, in our seminar network, that tried to find ways to engage communities to help over, all issues that have bedivdviled urban communities in the last 50 years. greta brawner you mentioned tom cotton not in support of this bill. he had a twitter exchange with mike lee of utah. senator mike lee saying "nothing in the first act gives inmates early release. that incentivizes dissipation and recidivism reduction programs. the bureau of prisons retains all authority over who does and does not qualify for early release." tom cotton says "look at the bill. inmates get early release and many other sections including retroactive application of fair sentencing act, reduced punishments for trafficking fentanyl under 841b and retroactive expansion of good time served credits. what it does do is encouragement delegation." a reply "it helps them to qualify for prerelease

custody." tom cotton "look at text. sheriff's call this dangerous. earned time credits for supervised release." if tom cotton doesn't support this bill, which is supported by major police unions like a fraternal order of police, the largest union for law enforcement in the country, if he is saying he is tougher on crime than the fraternal order of police or donald trump or the international association of chiefs of police, but he is saying is not in the bill. he does not support this bill, based on reforms that have worked in many states and that they are using the same types in

arkansas, his home state, if he is not supporting that,'s option is to be supporting the clinton crime bill. that is why we need to call it the clinton-cotton crime bill. we cannot let this happen. this has been going on for generations. these reforms need to be adopted at federal level. federal level needs to scale back systems in a way that is safe and gives people redemptive chances down the road. greta brawner mcconnell has urged to advance criminal reform bill. a version passed in the house. we hope so. we met with leader mcconnell this past summer. what he told us his there would be a whip counts and we were likely to get the outcome wanted. he thinks the votes are there. my understanding is that is what will happen after the thanks giving break. there will be a whip count and there will be support. we have over 2000

faith-based groups on board. a lot of major businesses including koch. we have others, civil rights groups, this issue falls at 70% to 80% across the political spectrum. people are ready. people have been living with this for the past several years. they know it works. it is time for the federal government to catch up. greta brawner let's hear what viewers have to say. christopher, oklahoma, good morning. good morning. my question is about the eighth amendment. it is supposed to prohibit the federal government from using cruel and unusual punishments. we still use solitary confinement. it has a stack of evidence against it. how is that legal?

good question. the eighth amendment does for bid cruel and unusual punishment. in some places they have allowed the use of solitary confinement. they have not done it at federal level. they will not outlaw it altogether because there are situations where someone needs to be put in solitary confinement but probably for not so long. i worked in a prison a long time ago. we used solitary confinement for people who were a threat to themselves or to the community within the prison. it was for short periods of time. that is what it should be used for -- to try to keep people who are not following the rules and are dangerous away from everybody but not keeping them there for ever. all isolation makes people worse. going back, the first step act has different provisions but most of them are designed to help people improve. if they have trauma, mental

health issues -- should, hopefully they would not be inside a prison -- unfortunately there are thousands -- hopefully they will not be as violent and troubled or put into solitary confinement as much greta brawner michael in bloomington, illinois. good morning. good morning. thanks for providing this service. it has been six years ago, i had occasion to be arrested and jailed overnight. for myself, being a middle income white male, being arrested was embarrassing and inconvenient. little more than that. there are a lot of people, minor offenses, they cannot afford bail or afford the fine, it escalates

and escalates. i think we need, for people that are so hot on jailing people, i think you need to approach them -- are you willing to pay the $60,000 per year it costs to keep someone incarcerated? from a moral standpoint, it is horrible. from an economic standpoint, it is idiocy. that is all i have. i agree. we talked about the fiscal perspective. the fiscal perspective is what leads to reforms happening. illinois has done some as well. the whole thing. we spent, and social costs, some estimate it is over $1 trillion per year that our criminal justice system costs. hard costs, almost $300 million total. incarceration, over $80

million per year, that we spend on incarcerating people, three to four times more than education. some of the statistics -- you might think we value locking people up more than we value educating them. i do not think that is the case but the numbers do not lie. the reforms we're talking about, they are redemptive, they keep. he safer and make more sense from a physical perspective. the states -- they are safer. this is about prioritizing skilled and healthy people. greta brawner good morning. i would like to say, i live in the south and in florida and

they released state prisoners on an early basis. the recidivism of crime by these individuals that were released early, the clinton bill was hard but it ended the crack cocaine epidemic. and the money on heroin is so big on the streets especially in the south, that these guys are going to get out of jail. they will not be happy with a $10 per hour job. they will go back to doing what they did. this is a dangerous bill. that will put, i feel, the public in a lot of danger as well as police officers that work in these communities. greta brawner reaction. thank you for your remarks. i respectfully disagree. when we release people who have been incarcerated right into society without any programmatic activity that gives them skills,

real skills that they can have an honest living, we do not deal with their trauma or the other issues they have. it is a recipe for disaster. that has what has happened the past 30 years. i disagree that the clinton crime bill did anything. we do not know of it did because there is no data that shows mandatory minimums or different laws that targeted low-level offenders kept a saver. there is no data whatsoever. -- kept us safer. people after the fact tried to say there was a 25% drop, but they cannot show it. the crimeware was dropping when the first mandatory minimums went into effect. when we did the second wave with the clinton crime bill, crime was rising but then it was going down again. it continues to go down while we see more prison populations being much winnowed and people being released. we're reducing

incarceration, crime rates, and that keeps people savor. the first step act, people are skilled and ready to be back in society so they can be productive and be with their families and be a positive force in communities. most of the states that have done reforms have realized that. florida, you are just starting. you have a great crime bill, it will be the data bill for future reforms. they will be able to do an mri of the entire state of florida, about where issues are, what they are and the legislature will get together and come up with reform packages, much like is happening in other states, reducing crime and incorporate -- incarceration rates. if we do not pass the first of act, people will come out of prison, do the same thing and become more dangerous overtime. that is why we need to pass the first step act. greta brawner the naacp legal defense fund president calls it a modest

step. "it is imperative that we take seriously the words, true criminal justice reform must start with policing reforms and changes to law enforcement practices that result in mass incarceration. it must include vale reform and measures that strengthen our public -- bail reform. it must include a return to a smart on crime approach to prosecution by u.s. and district attorneys. we have a great deal of work to do to make our system truly just." this did not happen overnight. we started in the 1970's, tough on crime. we declared war on drugs, inanimate objects. we did not differentiate mental health, public health, substance abuse, people who are poor, made a bad choice, that made economically to get involved in the drug trades. since that time we have walked. we did not differentiate. there are people

who are involved in the drug wars and cartels who are dangerous and need to be locked up and for a long time. there are other people who need to be locked up for a shorter time. we treat everyone the same. that is the problem. it is a one-size-fits-all situation. everyone gets the same thing. when you talk about people coming out of prison, we're focused on that at koch industries, we have been hiring the incarcerated since 1995. if you give them something different, they can succeed. by and large, there are collateral consequences for people who have paid their debt to society and have their sentences done and we do not let them have jobs, housing, education, loans, any access to the american dream. it is not surprising people end up in the system. that is another thing this bill will do and the

states have done to make systems better. it is simple. very important. it is a great start. i agree with her. there is a lot more to do. greta brawner second step? bail is different state to state. we need to follow the eighth amendment. if someone is a threat to public safety, public creates risk for the community, they should not be allowed out without bail. most people are not. do not lock them up because they cannot make cash bail, with $100 that may is low b $1000. it should be based on risk, not resources. these programs need to be fully funded. it is in the bill of rights. we have choice but we do not do that. the power prosecutors need to be looked at. they have respect. in our society, many ways, prosecutor, the jury, the judge and the executioner, that is not their role. scaring -- scaling that back. sentencing reform is based

on what the person did, not just the grid. for high-level offenders, we need to keep them locked up for long sentences. we need to look at sentencing practices to make sure the punishment is fitting the crime. we need prison reforms of people come out better than they went and. in. we need reentry reform. when you pay your debt to society, you should get all your rights back unless there is a public safety reason not to. when you start with the default of no one gets anything, that is a recipe for disaster and more recidivism and more crime. they want to reverse that and welcome people back to society and have them be part of this, like down in florida with the voting re do.

this is overdue. we have a criminal justice system that is from corrupt district attorney to >> we have a criminal justice system that is corrupt. i have about a season that plead guilty. his girl was killed in an accident. his was set at thousad dollars. -- $100,000. he was sentenced, one to 3.5 years. he got out of jail and he could not find a job because of his record. that is just wrong. he had an accident. he did not have a drivers license. that was wrong for him to do. he should have had a drivers license. but what happened was wrong. we need to have reform. i also want to say, i have another son who was accused of a

crime. he took a jury trial, it ended up as a bench trial. the judge asked 50 questions of the witnesses, that all benefited across effusion of him -- the prosecution of him. they came back and said they could not reach decision. they're asking the judge -- what do we do? 20 minutes later they come back with guilty verdict. he asks the jury after the trial heover to stick around while dismisses everyone else. our system is corrupt. they will do whatever they have to do. i have documents that prove that the system is corrupt. i appreciate what you're doing. i really do. i wish you all the luck. it will be tough. our government, judicial committee, these are the people who made these laws. they are the ones who gave judge

absolute immunity and district attorneys. all right? we tried to sue them in federal court, we lost because they had absolute immunity and they said i was acting as my son's attorney, not being license in the state of pennsylvania. no attorney would take the case. they do not want to challenge a district attorney or a judge. host: let's get a response. guest: thanks, bill. i totally understand what you're saying. in any system, corruption, that type of thing. it is a punitive system, is more what i believe. i think -- you made a great point about district attorneys. a lot of people know who the president is, who their governor is, who their senators are, congresspeople, maybe their state representatives.

very few people know who their local prosecutor is. that is the individual who can have more impact on your community than anyone else. the past years, places like philadelphia, chicago, people were running for office who are really wrong on crime but very much open to helping the whole community. performers. -- reformers. people getting ridiculous sentences, when they really don't need them. they need other types of diversion programs. it is important you engage at local level and make sure you are electing the people that you think will be much more just in the way they handle the criminal justice system. one thing about politics. politics is downstream from culture. politicians will follow the leader. they like to get the front of the parade. you have to bring the heat. if you bring the heat, they will

see the light. host: texas. caller: i haven't talked in two years. sergeant was a police for houston. he died in 1977. you can see the flaws. everybody has probably been arrested and it is nothing to be ashamed of. we have a lot of problems with criminal justice. i am in texas. they did a 30 minute program on texas where there is a loophole that parents of any kind of crime, their sons or daughters die in jail, while in jail, they cannot get paperwork. then it is shredded after two years. this is a moral failing. if you want to go back to history and look at ethics, when hoover did all that criminal justice on al capone, we taught

them to be criminals. the more we criminalize al qaeda, they spread out. this is what i say. this is a moral failing. ok? this is a moral failing. it is not black and white. like germany, they even let prisoners walk out. for real. they have no recidivism. the more you treat a man like a dog or a woman like a dog, you're only creating that enemy. they will never -- you know that by now, with trump, let's not turn it to jump, let's quit pointing fingers at each other. this morning you asked the question about saudi arabia. host: we will stick to the topic. guest: i appreciate your marks. -- remarks. texas has done great work. most people want to change the system. with the headska,

of corrections, the governor, they are trying to reform. good people in government are trying to change the dynamic. they are doing the hard work so people like john wetzel in pennsylvania, others in north dakota, michigan, these are corrections leaders who are making sure they are prioritizing safety and coming up with ideas to help people improve their lives, so these individuals come out of prison transformed and can have a chance at a real second chance, some of them never had a first chance. it is tough. they are doing it at state level and they are heroes because they have made the grounds safe for us to do it at federal level. we need these reforms. the vote was big in the house. huge. 360-59. talk about a time when our fractured politics, that vote happened. it will be the same thing at the federal level, if we can get it

on the floor before the year ends. we are hopeful we will. leader mcconnell is a man of his work. -- his word. he thinks the votes are there. that will be the first step for us to reform our federal system as well. we hope it has the same success. we have so many people on board. we're running out of time in the lame-duck. we are. this bill should have happened 40 years ago. representative mark walker made that point on twitter the other night, responding to someone who was attacking the bill, say that families, communities need this. the state seven doing it. lives are at stake. -- the state has been doing it. host: here's what president trump had to say. >> legislation known as the first step, that's what it is, the first cap and it is a big first step.

today i am thrilled to announce my support for this bipartisan bill that will make our communities safer and give former inmates a second chance at life after they have served time. so important. when i announced and when we all announced together this news conference, by some of the toughest, strongest law enforcement people including politicians, by the way, who are so in favor of it, i was surprised by some, like as an example, mike lee. [laughter] and rand paul and others. now it has tremendous support at every level. really great. host: some folks may have recognized you at the back at the white house. what was it like? whether the president tell you when he was not in front of the camera? guest: this is the second time i have been lucky enough to be with the president on these issues. we had a meeting with january for the hospital.

-- the house bill. and then meeting the president was asking questions, i was there. one of our coalition members, they are the best, they started the criminal justice revolution with governor perry back in 2007. she works with jared kushner at the white house on this issue. he has done an amazing job. paula white, faith-based organizations. sean is a georgetown law professor. he has come out of prison, transformed his life. he has his own law practice. it was a diverse group. at one point we were talking issues and someone said -- mr. president, the people who are trying to help, the families we

are trying to help, these are the people you ran for. that you campaigned for. the forgotten men and women in our society and that resonated. what we've seen with president trump is a learning curve, for sure. he commuted alice johnson's life sentence. totally appropriate and just. he did that because he is understanding better what these federal laws are like. there are some people who need to be in prison for life. alice johnson made a mistake. he was offered a three to five-year plea bargain by federal prosecutors. engaging in drug sales. turned it down. go to trial. when she lost, she got life sentence. the president thought that was unfair. she saw this person is a grandmother who made a mistake at a tough time in her life. she is out and she is an amazing person. that has helped the president get more comfortable with these reforms. the president in the meeting

last wednesday, you saw him on camera. that was it. he is interested in these issues. he understands how important it is to keep communities safe and be tough on crimes, but we need to be redemptive. we need to have second chances. he gets that more and more and he is doing an excellent job. host: matt in new hampshire. caller: good morning. i am an inmate, ex inmate, felony record. one of the first things you need to do is we have to have fair sentencing. that is not a question. was in some pretty tough prisons. most of the prisons i was in, were gladiator schools. i chose the easy way out. i spent 3.5 years in solitary

confinement. i found it easier to spend my time and read. that was easier than dealing with population. i was stabbed twice, i was raped, purely brutally beaten by guards and inmates. they are gladiator schools. they do not teach reform. they teach how to be a better criminal. until we accept that prison reform ise so brutal, not going to happen. i made one mistake in my life. i turned my life around. i am considered an honorable citizen. i do many things i get awards for and i am proud. i did it on my own. me,aith, people who love that was a great help. we keep sending kids to gladiator schools. i witnessed an 18-year-old kid

in new york, within 30 days he was dead. he was dead because he was afraid to fight and not big enough to fight. the president rails against ms 13 and the muslim brotherhood, i never knew a thing about the muslim religion until i walked into the prison system. the area nation, never knew about them until i walked into prison -- aryan nation. we need to reform. guest: i am sorry you had to go through everything you went through. i'm glad you are doing better. i agree with you. the first step act will improve prisons, make them more about redemption and rehabilitation and not about warehousing and retribution. there will always be a punitive aspect of prisons. trying to make it so people come

out better. we know this is unfair. we know who goes. it is based on resources. not saying they have committed a crime but if you have resources you can do better in the system. we need to reform our prison systems. this is the first that at federal level. the states are making more progress. there is a lot more to go. we also need to look at communities in general and try to reform them. one of the areas is k-12 education. a couple of frederick douglass quotes. how we try to build these coalitions is the statement he made many years ago "we will unite to anyone to do good, no one to do harm." everyone has played a role in the criminal justice system. everyone needs to play a role in getting into a better place. we owe it to society. it is easier to build strong

children than to fix broken adults. that is a lot of what we're doing and criminal justice. people have been traumatized their whole lives. that is not excusing anything they do, particularly violence, but they have been the victims of violence and trauma. the punishment will not matter. a lot of these people have punished -- have been punished enough. i was in a women's prison in nebraska yesterday. it was all about the stories of redemption. these people have been traumatized their whole lives. working with prison fellowship, this academy, they're trying to overcome what they have done in the past and be better people and come out and be positive members of society and they are working so hard. i see that again and again. butously we cannot do this if we could require an elected official who wants to pass a

punitive criminal justice reform to a prison and meet with the people in prison and hear them and see them and hear their stories, i'm confident most people would be on board with the first step act and other redemptive policies that make community safer and people that are. -- better. host: halle in pennsylvania. caller: i worked with a christian-based organization and a prison for three years. i know that this bill, this prison reform thing is meant to do well. there is so many different aspects. each person is therefore a different reason. big change isn't going to solve all of the prison problems.

you have to take them as individuals. did have horrible upbringings. some people found that it was easier, they made more money are doing illegal activities. some people got sucked into the neighborhood activity, which was crime. there is a lot of different reasons why people and up in jail -- end up in jail. that needs to be taken in consideration. another thing about the children -- that is a good thing to take into consideration because the rate of children going to jail, you can directly corresponds with the parents who goes to jail. host: mark holden. guest: this is the first step act. this is not the intermediate step or the final step. there is so much that needs to

happen. so much that needs to be fixed. you have to start somewhere. this is a good start. people call it modest. i say it is major. we have not had comprehensive federal criminal justice reform legislation in my lifetime. this will be a big first step. these other issues need to be addressed as well. there was a time and money. fixing the system is one thing, fixing education, communities, there is a lot more that needs to happen. this is essential. we are behind at federal level with what the states have done. we're hopeful this will happen before the end of the year. in thehat were you doing prison employment? guest: i was a present guard in massachusetts. i was a guard.

a number ofg over people i grew up with, kids i grew up with in the same neighborhood. they dropped off in middle school. i had forgotten about them and didn't see them in high school and i saw them when i was working in prison. they dropped out of school. they did not have parental support. if they did, they became drug addicts, or did not follow that support. they went to criminal means to feed addictions and ended up in prison. no money, no resources. a couple are still in. one and it up murdering someone. he needs to be in for life. wrong place, runtime. that was eye-opening for me. i was fortunate. i grew up in worcester, massachusetts. i had parents who were strict with me and did not let me do all the things i wanted to do and maybe made me do things i

didn't want to do. maybe that saved me from making a bad mistake. it was eye-opening. after that job, to help pay for college, i worked in a factory as a janitor in a town outside of western, massachusetts. they broughtends, in people from the local work release, 68 inmates, most of them were nice guys who could not get a break. there was no opportunities to get out of where they were. a circle and cycle of incarceration, generational. there were six of them, good guys. two of them were not. that is the general distribution of society anyway. what brian stevenson said is so right. he talks about being proximate to an issue. and proximate to the cause

to the solution. i was proximate to who goes to prison in this country from a young age. it was my knucklehead friends who did not have resources. that is most. we live in a stratified society. politicians, left and right, demagogues so much on this issue for political reasons, we have made this thing where everyone is willie horton or el chapo. this place for people who we do not want to deal with. undesirables. they cycle through again and again. it is based on property. -- poverty. this is one very to opportunity. 2009 thata study in said if we have not engaged in over incarceration of people during the war on drugs, we could have reduced the crime rate by 20%. i think that is right.

want to shoot for that. want to shoot for lower crime rates. we want people to transform. we believe most people can succeed if they get the opportunity, and if we can get the barriers out of their way. host: phoenix, arizona. caller: good morning. how are you doing? guest: good. caller: i was convicted of a felony when i was 15 years old. i have something of a unique story. convicted as a sex offender when i touched the breast of an older woman. the first person i was put in jail with as a first-time offender was the person that arizona was rewriting its juvenile death penalty laws on.

that is the kind of things that need to be looked at. that the caller from new hampshire was correct in saying that jails and prisons make better criminals. offender,-time young i was put in with a hard-core murderer, drug addict. host: let's take that. guest: you are right. that is part of the problem. we overuse prison for people that do not need it. it didn't sound like you needed it. there were other things that they could have done to do with your situation. i am sorry. we're trying to reform these systems. we need to keep doing it. host: shelby and tennessee. -- in tennessee. caller: thank you, mr. holden and c-span. offenders and

hired, when are they first come in the system, need background checks and also mental, emotional assessments. psychiatristo be a of high standards. initially and periodic follow-ups to keep track of them. rehabilitation and for those that can get out there and get a second chance. host: let's take the first part of your comments about psychologists. guest: i agree with what she is saying. we need to have support for people in prison. we need to have support for

staff. it is a stressful job. they're dealing with things none of us want to deal with. andeed support the officers counselors and others who are working in the prison system. i was at the york state prison in nebraska yesterday. phenomenal staff working hard. partnering to try to make people better. that is what we want. in the first act, there will be de-escalation training for staff in the bureau of prisons. the first reaction is throwing solitary --hole in ways to avoid that. at the end of the day, people who work in prisons are doing god's work as well. it is a tough job. i'm not saying they are perfect. most people who get into these jobs want to do the right thing. transition from the tough on crime era to what we call the smart on crime, soft on

taxpayer era. this will lead to a better place for all of us. we're doing our part. one group, we started this past year is called take second chances. we hope it will be the game changer in reentry. we are a pilot states. pennsylvania, texas, kentucky and florida. we have half the groups coming out, people coming out of prison, half are getting what the prisons offer for people getting reentry into society and the other half, in an innovative approach working with local providers to help them be successful in what they are doing. different programs, different therapy. we will share our data. putting data together. carrie davis is a professor at fsu, who is a phenomenal person working on these issues forever.

she will run the research. john is with our friends at right on crime, a lawyer with a history in the system as well who is running our research. we are running this real-time. when we see a barrier for opportunity for someone coming out of prison, occupational license issues, john and his team was try to fix that and get that barrier out of the way and let this person succeed. we are working closely with states. we will fail fast, and succeed more. host: if our viewers want to learn more, go to freedompartner s.org. mark holden is the chair.

>> your silent policy has been put on hold? >> you go to the ninth circuit, and it is a disgrace. am going to put in a major complaint. in cannot win if you are us the 9th circuit. that is not what this country stands for. every case that gets filed in the 9th circuit, we get beaten, and we go to the supreme court, and we won. the 9th circuit we are going to have to look at that. no matter where it is, practically for all sfwents and purposes, they file it in what is called the 9th circuit. this was an obama judge. i will tell you what, it is not going to happen like this anymore. everybody that wants to sue the united states, they file their case -- in almost -- they file

their case in the 9th circuit, and it means an automatic loss no matter what you do or how good your case is. the 9th circuit is something we have to take a look at because it is not fair. people should not be allowed to immediately run to this very friendly circuit and file their case. and you people know better than anybody what is happening. it is a disgrace. in my opinion is his a disgrace what happens with the 9th circuit. we will win that case in the prosecute supreme court of the united states. announcer: and chief justice john roberts responding to the president's remarks saying we do not have obama judges, bush judges or clinton judges. what we have is an extraordinary group of judging doing their level best. the independent judiciary is something we should all be thankful for. before meeting